Re: [RE-wrenches] battery question
Hi Jamie and others. Thanks for the conformation and the information. Another system installed badly. Hard to give bad news to people. Thanks, jay peltz power On Sep 4, 2008, at 5:42 AM, James Surrette wrote: Morning Jay, I don't have a lot of good news for you - but maybe others do? Years ago, I visited a commercial fishing client that had a 6 week old 32VDC bank of batteries that were not performing. Once we reviewed, we noticed a tap 6 cells in.for 12V radios. Boat had been out for a 6 week run, which meant 6 weeks of charging at ~2.3VPC and the 10 non tapped cells were toasted (red cases were actually black). Of course, client wanted warranty but that is another story. Your only hope is to separate the low 12V bank and charge to 100% SOC. Then charge the hi 12V bank to 100% (probably already there or beyond). Finally, marry the banks again and balance with a 2.35 - 2.4VPC until cell voltage stabilizes. Current acceptance will be low but voltage will ultimately stabilize across the bank. The problem is, the low bank has been undercharged for 2 years and the hi bank has been severely overcharged. As a result the capacity / corrosion differences between the two sides will be great - leading to charging difficulties going forward, which may result in the bank needing to be replaced. However, I would recommend attempting to bring the bank into line before replacing. I hope this is of assistance, Jamie James Surrette Surrette Battery Co. Ltd 1 Station Rd. Springhill, NS, CAN B0M 1X0 Direct: 902.597.4027 Fax: 902.597.8447 jay peltz [EMAIL PROTECTED] 09/04/08 1:25 AM HI All, A guy has 1/2 loaded his big surrette 24v battery, yep put 12v loads onto only one side of the 24v battery. Now after 2 yrs 12v side is low voltage, 24v side is boiling like crazy. System is charged via SW4024, big genny and good size array. so my question is can/should I 1. remove the 12v by installing a Vanner or similar. 2. put a 12v charger onto the lower 12v side to put an equal charge into the batteries. ( I have never had success trying to charge up a highly unbalanced battery) thanks, jay peltz power ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] battery question
Jay Peltz wrote about the problem child battery which had been tapped at 12 volts. Dana Orzel replied about using a 24/12 volt converter and use the whole bank to provide the power supply for the 12 VDC load. Mick says: I agree that the Voltmaster or other 12/24 converter should be connected in series between the 24 volt battery and the load as an in line voltage down converter. This means the converter must be sized big enough for the maximum power throughput. Some of the 12/24 converter manufacturers show connecting their gizmo across three nodes of the battery string, as a way to allow temporary surge loads on the 12 volt side. Don't go there, because the voltage imbalance from the upper half to the lower half is still too great. I once measured this delta-v far in excess of the published spec from one famous converter. Dana is correct that the converter should go in series with the 12 volt load. Jay: Yesterday, I responded to your off list request for info about the cell voltage datalogger. I also mentioned the 24/7 battery string balancer which I distribute. Contact me off list if you'd like to try that item for 30 days. It's going to take a lot to make this battery string behave anything like equally matched horses. Applying a 12 volt charger to the depleted half would be an appropriate first step to take, as mentioned by others. Mick Abraham, Proprietor www.abrahamsolar.com Voice: 970-731-4675 ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Front Loader Washing Machines and Modified square wave inverters
Hi again Dana Wrenches. I heard back from the fellow, along with an updated document about running FP washers on inverters. Hope there's some useful info here. __ Hi Michael, Good to hear from you. The attachment was still essentially correct. I have had the Laundry electronics control guru look at this and he has made few minor updates. I was quizzing him up as to why he had only ± 5% tolerance on the frequency - considering the system rectifies the mains into DC then chops it up again for the motor - and the electronics for the 50Hz 230 V version is essentially the same but without the voltage doubling. He points out that some of the washer range (still) has pumps with shaded pole motors and that on a 50 Hz supply the 60 Hz pumps draw too much current. I.e. the induction is insufficient to limit the current that far from the pump motor's design frequency. I have copied this to Scott Davies. (714.421.8574) He is in our Huntington Beach (Orange County) office. He looks after sales and marketing for North America. Best regards Lindsey Roke Technical Expert / Environmental Engineer Fisher Paykel Appliances Ltd PO Box 58 732 Greenmount Manukau 2141 New Zealand or 78 Springs Road East Tamaki Auckland New Zealand Michael Welch wrote at 03:07 PM 8/27/2008: Hi gang. I wanted to add to this that one of FP's engineers is himself a solar bozo. I have not had contact with him in a few years, but way back when, he did send me the enclosed document which outlines FP washer requirements on inverters. Wonder if the models have changed, and how much. I have Bcc'd him, so maybe he will get back to me with the latest info. Dana wrote at 01:22 PM 8/27/2008: I have a client that just purchased a Fisher Paykel, F-P claim it is inverter friendly and the washer has great specs, runs up to 1000 RPM in the final spin. And it runs pretty fine on a SW4024. Purchased @ a local appliance center, so if it needs repair you are not your own repair person. Cost was $600+ and is ½ of a Staber at $1200 plus freight, which I used to sell. I will probably replace my Staber when it dies with one of these. I did not run a watt hour meter on it but will at some point to get a usage and will report back. Thanks - Dana Orzel Using 120V Alternate Energy Generation 2.doc Description: MS-Word document ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Followup to Surrette Battery Question
Matt; I've used the watering systems for years as well, but never the tap connect. We have hard water here too, good to know that our distilled water mania is not in vain. Ray On Sep 4, 2008, at 6:30 PM, Matt wrote: Ray, We sell plenty of watering systems, but none are fed from an actual pressurized tap. The best one uses a manual water release on top of each cap; this prevents over-filling when (not if) something sticks. I have never used non-distilled water in a battery, but I have replaced a couple of banks that were wrecked by using well water with a high mineral content. Matt R. Walters [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I never used it, but Battery Watering Systems has used them for years. The rep I talked to thought we in the solar biz were quite cautious on this. I still use distilled H2O, myself BTW. Have you actually experienced ruined batteries from ionized or filtered H2O? Also, if you reread Jamie's previous response, it sounds like they aren't even using distilled H2O to build them either. Ray On Sep 3, 2008, at 7:15 PM, Matt wrote: This is a majorly bad idea! Tap water usually contains dissolved minerals that will screw up battery plates, reduce or increase conductivity and generally void battery warrantees. Am I correct about this Jamie? Matt R. Walters [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Some of the single point battery watering systems have a pressure regulator that plumbs right to the water tap with a small filter. Apparently we in the solar business are more anal about using distilled water than many other battery users. Ray On Sep 2, 2008, at 6:46 PM, James Surrette wrote: Hi Bruce, FYI, Deionized water is commonly used in battery manufacturing and large motive power applications; http://www.philadelphiascientific.com/deionizer.html Regards, Jamie R. Walters Solarray.com NABCEP # 04170442 ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
