Re: [RE-wrenches] More on AC coupling - SI and SB
Hi Todd, We are looking into the new East Penn Deka Unigy ll sealed batteries. They seem to be a good deal less money than the GNB’s. Anyone have any experience with these? I agree with you if we are to use a smaller group 27/31 size AGM battery but these big industrial cells should go the distance if they work as advertised. Do you have any experience with the Unigy ll batteries? Sincerely, Chris Worcester NABCEP Certified PV Installer Phone: 530-582-4503 Fax: 530-582-4603 www.solarwindworks.com http://www.solarwindworks.com/ [EMAIL PROTECTED] Proven Energy Solutions From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, November 26, 2008 9:40 PM To: RE-wrenches Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] More on AC coupling - SI and SB Maintenance free might mean replacing them after about 5 or 6 years rather than 15 to 20. Todd On Wednesday, November 26, 2008 1:41pm, Chris Worcester [EMAIL PROTECTED] said: I will look at these for other jobs, our client wants maintenance free on this one though. Sincerely, Chris Worcester NABCEP Certified PV Installer Phone: 530-582-4503 Fax: 530-582-4603 www.solarwindworks.com http://www.solarwindworks.com/ [EMAIL PROTECTED] Proven Energy Solutions ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] More on AC coupling - SI and SB
HI Chris, I've been give some glowing reports from a company that uses them for telecomm sites, many in very hostile environments and they seem to hold up really well, and yes the price point is very good. I've got a 3100amphr at 48v going in off grid in Baja next year and the Unigy II are what I'm using. Hope this helps, jay peltz power On Nov 28, 2008, at 10:25 AM, Chris Worcester wrote: Hi Todd, We are looking into the new East Penn Deka Unigy ll sealed batteries. They seem to be a good deal less money than the GNB’s. Anyone have any experience with these? I agree with you if we are to use a smaller group 27/31 size AGM battery but these big industrial cells should go the distance if they work as advertised. Do you have any experience with the Unigy ll batteries? Sincerely, Chris Worcester NABCEP Certified PV Installer Phone: 530-582-4503 Fax: 530-582-4603 www.solarwindworks.com [EMAIL PROTECTED] Proven Energy Solutions From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] ] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, November 26, 2008 9:40 PM To: RE-wrenches Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] More on AC coupling - SI and SB Maintenance free might mean replacing them after about 5 or 6 years rather than 15 to 20. Todd On Wednesday, November 26, 2008 1:41pm, Chris Worcester [EMAIL PROTECTED] said: I will look at these for other jobs, our client wants maintenance free on this one though. Sincerely, Chris Worcester NABCEP Certified PV Installer Phone: 530-582-4503 Fax: 530-582-4603 www.solarwindworks.com [EMAIL PROTECTED] Proven Energy Solutions ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Problems with the Xantrex XW6048
What are the loads on the sub-panel being backed up by this system ? Any power being used on that sub-panel would not show up on the screen showing power being sold to the grid . Does your charge control show the full rated output from the array ? Jon Jon Haeme Innovations NABCEP certified installer #102503-19 Kempton, IL On Nov 28, 2008, at 12:22 PM, Peter Parrish wrote: I was hoping that I would not have to post the message, but I have been unable to sort this problem on my own, and I am attempting to gather information and advice from this august body. We install about two grid-tied battery backup systems a year in the Los Angeles basin and will probably continue to do so at this rate or greater for the foreseeable future. I might add, that it is difficult for us to support these installs and sales because of the added complexity of the systems and the extra knowledge and terminology we have to master. Those of you for whom the off-grid market is your primary market, know this stuff backwards and forwards. Having said that, the information I am looking for is any experiences and advice that the wrenches may have and are willing to share with me about the Xantrex 6048 (or similar) systems. We purchased a XW6048 with two MPPT60-150 charge controllers. We also have a System Control Panel and all four boxes are wired up using Cat5+ Ethernet cables (and terminations). The rest of the system consists of 30ea Sharp 142W modules and 8ea 8A8D 12V/225Ah batteries. The PV modules are configured as six strings of five each and the batteries are configured as two strings of four each. The module strings are combined using fusible combiners of three strings each and fed into the charge controllers separately. The batteries are hard wired using 2/0 cable within the strings and 4/0 cable after combining. We are using SS bolts/washers/nuts on lead terminals. The XW system and batteries are located in a fully furnished basement in an air-conditioned home in Los Angeles (i.e. the temperature in the basement varies no more than 65F to 80F. Here’s the problem: I monitor the system around local noon on a sunny day, and expect to see the system producing in excess of 3.0 kW, with the batteries fully charged. Here’s what we see: the system is in sell mode and he output power goes through an oscillation from about 2.15 kW to 2.90 kW and back down again. The period of the oscillation is ~5 secs on the rise and ~2 secs on the fall. In consultation Xantrex, here is what we have done: (1) Fiddled with the GS voltage. Currently it is 53.0 V (2) Upgraded the firmware to Rev. 1.03.00 (3) Fiddled with the max sell current, now 17.5 A (4) Fiddled with 2-stage vs 3-stage charge cycles. 3-stage on charge controller and 2-stage on inverter/charger (5) Several other tweaks of no consequence We have made a total of six trips to this customer after commissioning the system, each time with a different set of suggested tweaks courtesy of four different members of the technical support staff. One of the trips was solely for the purpose of the firmware upgrade. All in all, I have been working the problem now for over four months. At this point in time, I have been unable to reach a live tech support person after four tries spread out over two weeks. About five weeks ago, one of the tech support individuals commented that this oscillation in output power was a known phenomenon, but this was the same individual that thought the problem would be fixed with the firmware upgrade. I’m at my wits end. Leaving messages is a waste of my time. I apologize in advance for the long narration, but I was hoping to get all the facts out there at once and minimize the amount of QAs. (1) Has anyone seen this phenomenon in the XW systems? (2) If so, what was the fix? (3) What is the knowledge level and responsiveness of Xantrex Tech support on this system? (4) Is anyone experiencing a general decrease in the quality of Tech Support at Xantrex? (5) To whom at Xantrex should I escalate this problem I am having? In specific, I have spoken on two occasions with Erica Yedid, who I understand is in charge of post-sales tech support for the SW system. - Peter Peter T. Parrish, Ph.D., President California Solar Engineering, Inc. 820 Cynthia Ave., Los Angeles, CA 90065 Ph 323-258-8883, Mobile 323-839-6108, Fax 323-258-8885 CA Lic. 854779, NABCEP Cert. 031806-26 [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re- wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Problems with the Xantrex XW6048
Have you tried this system with all the house loads switched of physically? It does sound odd that you can time the swings but could it be something in the house drawing around the 400 watts for a few seconds? the XW may just be responding to that? If all else fails try switching off all the breakers in the subpanels and see if it still does it. Alternative Energy Systems of Maine 57 Hemlock Rd Corinna, Me 04928 www.solar4maine.com 207-416-2006___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Shoes, matting for roof work
Wrenches, We¹re doing a lot of work on new-construction metal roofs. The problem isn¹t so much staying on the roof (unless wet!) but tracking sand up onto the roof from the foundation area which scratches up the roof and, then, becomes a safety issue. We¹ve tried laying old carpet at the ladder or scaffolding base, but that only seems to work for awhile. We have tried changing shoes from the ground to the roof, but that gets old, fast. We¹re considering trying Korker safety sandals ( www.westernsafety.com/korkers.html) with the metal roof pads, which (hopefully) can be quickly put on over regular footwear. Has anyone tried these and have feedback? The Cougar Paws seem like good footwear, but I don¹t see how they would solve the issue of tracking grit onto the roof. I like the idea of using matting, as long as it¹s sticky enough to stay on the roof when wet. Other ideas along these lines would be appreciated. Thanks, -Kelly Kelly Keilwitz, P.E. Whidbey Sun Wind, LLC Renewable Energy Systems NABCEP Certified PV Installer 987 Wanamaker Rd, Coupeville, WA 98239 PH FAX 360-678-7131 [EMAIL PROTECTED] On 11/24/08 9:44 AM, David Brearley [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: His whole crew is wearing Cougar Paws, which have replaceable rubber soles. The rubber soles are very soft in order to provide good traction on steep roofs w/out tearing up the roofing, esp. asphalt shingles. The shoes themselves are built to last and the soles attach to the boot using Velcro. Working 100% on residential re-roofs, mostly comp shingle, these guys are going through one $15.00 sole per person per month. His company buys the shoes, but the crew has to buy their own replacement soles. David Brearley, Technical Editor SolarPro magazine On 11/23/08 1:15 PM, Paul Israel [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In regards to shoes we have been testing the Cougerpaws with some of our installers and sales folks, http://www.cougarpaws.com/html/about.html http://www.cougarpaws.com/html/about.html . So far I have thumbs up. Previous to that we required Vans, as they are ³grippy² but not aggressive. They were suggested by roofers after some very hot days.We also use a product called the Spaghetti Mat to help protect the roof. Paul N. Israel, President ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Problems with the Xantrex XW6048
Good point. The loads are fairly small, totaling about 270 W. The security system, a medical oxygen pump, telephone system, a portion of the basement lighting; totaling about 270 W. That's why I said in excess of 3.0 kW. I expect 3.2-3.4 kW total production at local noon, perhaps less this time of year (the array is a flush mount on a 5:12 roof; dead South). Charge control does show the full amount. I am less concerned, at least at this point about the top end AC sell power; I just want the system to settle down and produce 3.0 kW+ at Noon this time of year. - Peter Peter T. Parrish, President California Solar Engineering, Inc. 820 Cynthia Ave., Los Angeles, CA 90065 Ph 323-258-8883, Mobile 323-839-6108, Fax 323-258-8885 CA Lic. 854779, NABCEP Cert. 031806-26 [EMAIL PROTECTED] _ From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jon Haeme Sent: Friday, November 28, 2008 10:59 AM To: RE-wrenches Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Problems with the Xantrex XW6048 What are the loads on the sub-panel being backed up by this system ? Any power being used on that sub-panel would not show up on the screen showing power being sold to the grid . Does your charge control show the full rated output from the array ? Jon Jon Haeme Innovations NABCEP certified installer #102503-19 Kempton, IL On Nov 28, 2008, at 12:22 PM, Peter Parrish wrote: I was hoping that I would not have to post the message, but I have been unable to sort this problem on my own, and I am attempting to gather information and advice from this august body. We install about two grid-tied battery backup systems a year in the Los Angeles basin and will probably continue to do so at this rate or greater for the foreseeable future. I might add, that it is difficult for us to support these installs and sales because of the added complexity of the systems and the extra knowledge and terminology we have to master. Those of you for whom the off-grid market is your primary market, know this stuff backwards and forwards. Having said that, the information I am looking for is any experiences and advice that the wrenches may have and are willing to share with me about the Xantrex 6048 (or similar) systems. We purchased a XW6048 with two MPPT60-150 charge controllers. We also have a System Control Panel and all four boxes are wired up using Cat5+ Ethernet cables (and terminations). The rest of the system consists of 30ea Sharp 142W modules and 8ea 8A8D 12V/225Ah batteries. The PV modules are configured as six strings of five each and the batteries are configured as two strings of four each. The module strings are combined using fusible combiners of three strings each and fed into the charge controllers separately. The batteries are hard wired using 2/0 cable within the strings and 4/0 cable after combining. We are using SS bolts/washers/nuts on lead terminals. The XW system and batteries are located in a fully furnished basement in an air-conditioned home in Los Angeles (i.e. the temperature in the basement varies no more than 65F to 80F. Here's the problem: I monitor the system around local noon on a sunny day, and expect to see the system producing in excess of 3.0 kW, with the batteries fully charged. Here's what we see: the system is in sell mode and he output power goes through an oscillation from about 2.15 kW to 2.90 kW and back down again. The period of the oscillation is ~5 secs on the rise and ~2 secs on the fall. In consultation Xantrex, here is what we have done: (1) Fiddled with the GS voltage. Currently it is 53.0 V (2) Upgraded the firmware to Rev. 1.03.00 (3) Fiddled with the max sell current, now 17.5 A (4) Fiddled with 2-stage vs 3-stage charge cycles. 3-stage on charge controller and 2-stage on inverter/charger (5) Several other tweaks of no consequence We have made a total of six trips to this customer after commissioning the system, each time with a different set of suggested tweaks courtesy of four different members of the technical support staff. One of the trips was solely for the purpose of the firmware upgrade. All in all, I have been working the problem now for over four months. At this point in time, I have been unable to reach a live tech support person after four tries spread out over two weeks. About five weeks ago, one of the tech support individuals commented that this oscillation in output power was a known phenomenon, but this was the same individual that thought the problem would be fixed with the firmware upgrade. I'm at my wits end. Leaving messages is a waste of my time. I apologize in advance for the long narration, but I was hoping to get all the facts out there at once and minimize the amount of QAs. (1) Has anyone seen this phenomenon in the XW systems? (2) If so, what was the fix? (3) What is the knowledge level and responsiveness of Xantrex Tech support on this system? (4) Is anyone experiencing a general
