Re: [RE-wrenches] 48 Volt Heatpump

[Jeff Yago]

Carl:
 
I had written several articles about this need and received an email from a guy who was making DC powered heatpumps for big rig truckers so they do not need to leave engine idling all night.   He claims the standard unit runs on 12 volt DC batteries that can be solar charged, but also claims he now has a model about 3/4 ton that runs on 48 VDC for off-grid solar homes.  His specifications look good, but when I questioned some of his claims he replys with these 4 page email missives.  Not sure if he just truly believes in his product or dosn't have both oars in the water, but I always get a little concerned when this happens.  
 
Anyway, suggest you check it outhttp://www.allaroundcontractingllc.com/
 
Let us know if this looks like it might work.   Anyone else had any contact with this operation?
 
Jeff Yago
 
  Netscape.  Just the Net You Need.
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Back feeding battery inverter with grid-tie inverter

[Jeff Yago]

Thanks to all for the great advice on the AC coupled system we are working on.  
 
We were trying to do this with the XW Xantrex as that was what the client had wanted, but after all the comments I am going to talk him into going with an Outback power panel AC coupled to a SunnyBoy, and use an aux relay to shut down when battery charged.  We have installed a ton of these so might as well stay with what has worked in the past.
 
Thanks,
 
Jeff Yago Netscape.  Just the Net You Need.
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Building integrated thermal collectors?

[mick abraham]

Thanks, Carl~

I spotted the Wagner website after this conversation lulled. I wrote to ask
about North America distribution but I got no reply so I assume they're not
active on this side of the pond.

I also wrote to Velux...cc'ing about four List members who expressed an
interest. All I've gotten so far from Velux is the opportunity to fill out
some application papers, and no answers to my batch of questions.

Mick Abraham, Proprietor
www.abrahamsolar.com
Voice: 970-731-4675

-- Original Message ---
From: "Carl Emerson" 
To: , "'RE-wrenches'" 
Sent: Wed, 21 Jan 2009 15:01:43 +1300
Subject: RE: [RE-wrenches] Building integrated thermal collectors?

> Mick,
> 
> We are about to do a Wagner system about 50 SQM.
> 
> It is a top German product, definitely worth a look.
> 
> Carl Emerson
> Manager
> Free Power Ltd.
> Auckland, New Zealand.
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org
> [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of mick 
> abraham Sent: 29 December 2008 7:04 a.m. To: RE-wrenches Subject: 
> Re: [RE-wrenches] Building integrated thermal collectors?
> 
> Good points made, Karl...esp the one about "every btu reduces the 
> load on the backup water heater". My takeaway from that is that even 
> if the Dawn system can only preheat water for the main heater, 
> that's still something. I assume that the solar fraction could never 
> reach 100%, but that's often the case anyway.
> 
> I plan to write to Velux to learn more about their flashed/glazed collector
> system. Interested parties may contact me off list and I'll forward 
> what I get. (Disclosure: I have no relationship with and get no 
> benefit from Velux for forwarding their information.
> 
> Mick Abraham, Proprietor
> www.abrahamsolar.com
> Voice: 970-731-4675
> 
> -- Original Message ---
> From: Karl Schwingel 
> To: m...@abrahamsolar.com, RE-wrenches 
> Sent: Sun, 28 Dec 2008 11:44:35 -0600
> Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Building integrated thermal collectors?
> 
> > I will beg to differ on the space heating properties.  domestic hot 
> > water can use any degree above about 50 degF here in wisconsin.  
> > every btu reduces the load on the backup water heater.  pool heating 
> > is just fine with anything above  80 degrees or so (pool temps 80-85 
> > deg) and space heating is the tricky one because it needs temps 
> > minimum of 60 deg above ambient.   say 80 deg on a 20 deg winter day 
> > for infloor heating, much higher for fan coils and other convective 
> > devices.
> > 
> > There's someone here in the upper midwest peddling something similar 
> > to the amercian solar air to water heater, and that's fine, but what 
> > happens when something fails and the HX freezes.  I've heard too 
> > many stories about the HX's freezing overnight and thawing when the 
> > sun comes out, presto, impromptu indoor pool.  not on my watch cap'n.
> > 
> > what worries me is that dawn solar is peddling their collector to a 
> > potential customer as a space heating option.   he wants us to 
> > install it, and I'm willing to do it, but ONLY with a huge signed 
> > neon rotating, I TOLD YOU SO!!!.
> > 
> > karl out.
> > 
> > mick abraham wrote:
> > > Thanks, Kurt & Ian~
> > >
> > > The Dawn Solar arrangement makes me think of a similar looking setup
> from
> > > American Solar: http://americansolar.com/product-solar-roof.htm
> > >
> > > The American Solar setup heats air which they claim can then heat water.
> Hmm. 
> > >
> > > My inner geek suspects that both of these systems would yield only low
> > > temperature rise...which would be OK for pool heating or even for space
> > > heating...but for DHW? Hmm. Both of these systems remind me of unglazed
> > > swimming pool collectors.
> > >
> > > Glass is old school, low tech, breakable, and there's that nagging low
> R-value
> > > problem. Even so, glass really has some marvelous properties. The
> "greenhouse
> > > effect" makes glass behave similar to a selective surface. 
> > >
> > > Ian's note about the Velux integrated collectors is also appreciated.
> There
> > > are some excellent how to videos on the Velux website which may be of
> interest
> > > to other List members.
> > >
> > > Anyone in the SW Rockies who might be interested in pooling an order for
> Velux
> > > gear in order to save freight costs may contact me off list.
> > >
> > > Thanks again,
> > >
> > > Mick Abraham, Proprietor
> > > www.abrahamsolar.com
> > > Voice: 970-731-4675
> > >
> > > -- Original Message ---
> > > From: Kurt Albershardt 
> > > To: RE-wrenches 
> > > Sent: Sat, 27 Dec 2008 09:36:27 -0800
> > > Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Building integrated thermal collectors?
> > >
> > >   
> > >> --On Saturday, December 27, 2008 8:08 AM -0700 mick abraham 
> > >>  wrote:
> > >> 
> > >>> I'm looking for thermal collectors which integrate into the roof of
> the
> > >>>   
> > > building. These would heat glycol to modest temp

Re: [RE-wrenches] Building integrated thermal collectors?

[Carl Emerson]

Mick,

We are about to do a Wagner system about 50 SQM.

It is a top German product, definitely worth a look.

Carl Emerson
Manager
Free Power Ltd.
Auckland, New Zealand.

-Original Message-
From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org
[mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of mick abraham
Sent: 29 December 2008 7:04 a.m.
To: RE-wrenches
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Building integrated thermal collectors?

Good points made, Karl...esp the one about "every btu reduces the load on
the
backup water heater". My takeaway from that is that even if the Dawn system
can only preheat water for the main heater, that's still something. I assume
that the solar fraction could never reach 100%, but that's often the case
anyway. 

I plan to write to Velux to learn more about their flashed/glazed collector
system. Interested parties may contact me off list and I'll forward what I
get. (Disclosure: I have no relationship with and get no benefit from Velux
for forwarding their information.

Mick Abraham, Proprietor
www.abrahamsolar.com
Voice: 970-731-4675

-- Original Message ---
From: Karl Schwingel 
To: m...@abrahamsolar.com, RE-wrenches 
Sent: Sun, 28 Dec 2008 11:44:35 -0600
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Building integrated thermal collectors?

> I will beg to differ on the space heating properties.  domestic hot 
> water can use any degree above about 50 degF here in wisconsin.  
> every btu reduces the load on the backup water heater.  pool heating 
> is just fine with anything above  80 degrees or so (pool temps 80-85 
> deg) and space heating is the tricky one because it needs temps 
> minimum of 60 deg above ambient.   say 80 deg on a 20 deg winter day 
> for infloor heating, much higher for fan coils and other convective 
> devices.
> 
> There's someone here in the upper midwest peddling something similar 
> to the amercian solar air to water heater, and that's fine, but what 
> happens when something fails and the HX freezes.  I've heard too 
> many stories about the HX's freezing overnight and thawing when the 
> sun comes out, presto, impromptu indoor pool.  not on my watch cap'n.
> 
> what worries me is that dawn solar is peddling their collector to a 
> potential customer as a space heating option.   he wants us to 
> install it, and I'm willing to do it, but ONLY with a huge signed 
> neon rotating, I TOLD YOU SO!!!.
> 
> karl out.
> 
> mick abraham wrote:
> > Thanks, Kurt & Ian~
> >
> > The Dawn Solar arrangement makes me think of a similar looking setup
from
> > American Solar: http://americansolar.com/product-solar-roof.htm
> >
> > The American Solar setup heats air which they claim can then heat water.
Hmm. 
> >
> > My inner geek suspects that both of these systems would yield only low
> > temperature rise...which would be OK for pool heating or even for space
> > heating...but for DHW? Hmm. Both of these systems remind me of unglazed
> > swimming pool collectors.
> >
> > Glass is old school, low tech, breakable, and there's that nagging low
R-value
> > problem. Even so, glass really has some marvelous properties. The
"greenhouse
> > effect" makes glass behave similar to a selective surface. 
> >
> > Ian's note about the Velux integrated collectors is also appreciated.
There
> > are some excellent how to videos on the Velux website which may be of
interest
> > to other List members.
> >
> > Anyone in the SW Rockies who might be interested in pooling an order for
Velux
> > gear in order to save freight costs may contact me off list.
> >
> > Thanks again,
> >
> > Mick Abraham, Proprietor
> > www.abrahamsolar.com
> > Voice: 970-731-4675
> >
> > -- Original Message ---
> > From: Kurt Albershardt 
> > To: RE-wrenches 
> > Sent: Sat, 27 Dec 2008 09:36:27 -0800
> > Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Building integrated thermal collectors?
> >
> >   
> >> --On Saturday, December 27, 2008 8:08 AM -0700 mick abraham 
> >>  wrote:
> >> 
> >>> I'm looking for thermal collectors which integrate into the roof of
the
> >>>   
> > building. These would heat glycol to modest temperatures, for domestic
hot
water.
> >   
> >> Dawn Solar uses a design which effectively puts radiant floor tubing 
> >> just below the metal roof panels.  They were not particularly 
> >> forthcoming when I asked for more info.
> >>
> >> I suspect you could use Rehau Raupanel in a similar fashion.
> >>
> >> 
> >>
> >> ___
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> >> www.members.re-wrenches.org
> >> 
> > --- End of Origi

Re: [RE-wrenches] Mobile Solar power Center

[Starlight Solar, Yuma, AZ]

Our business is now 100% off grid and mobile systems. We see many  
Prosine inverters fail and fail again. Just FYI.


Larry Crutcher

On Jan 19, 2009, at 5:39 PM, Wallace Stahle wrote:



- Original Message -
From: "Peter Parrish" 
inverter I'll be using (Xantrex Prosine 1000). Does anyone have a  
source

for


I put a Prosine 2500 w/charger in a same purpose trailer 10 years  
ago and it
worked great for a year and a half and at one event on the  
beachfront I
showed up, fired it up, it powered up fine and as the stage  
continued to

plug things in the smoke was suddenly released.  OH NO now what?
A local with public event history there at the beach showed up with a
pigtail and tapped into the Light pole power at the base as he  
occasionlly

did for events and I left with my pride bruised. I now bring a spare
inverter to cover my assets, reliability.
Reliability in those PR events is critical.

I want to build a larger one and would definitely start with at  
least the OB

or Magnum.

The worst part was Statpower just sent me a new warrenty replacement  
unit as

they are not repairable here but sent back to China I was told, so no
feedback on failure mode and the error code was not relevant.

I tried to open the unit up to inspect it but the assembly order was  
not
evident even after 20 or so screws so screwed it back up before I  
screwed it

up.

Have fun with it.
Wallace Stahle



Also, when trying to get load estimates for events the sound  
engineer idea

of watts is way over actual AC watts RMS required.
Does anybody know how to adjust speaker peak watts to likely AC load  
watts?









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Re: [RE-wrenches] NABCEP Test: Codebook or Handbook?

[Michael Kelly]

Michael,

Thanks for passing that along.  And thanks to Rebecca for clearing that up.

- Mike

--
Michael Kelly
Project Engineer
Project Manager

SolarFlair Energy, Inc.
1 Knoll Rd.
Hopkinton, MA 01748
Direct Mobile: 617-899-9840
Direct Fax: 781-272-0748
Main Phone: 508-293-4293
Main Fax: 508-293-4003
m...@solarflair.com


On Tue, Jan 20, 2009 at 6:34 PM, Michael Welch <
michael.we...@re-wrenches.org> wrote:

> Hi Gang.
>
> Rebecca Eaton, Exec. Dir. of NABCEP asked me to pass this on to you. If you
> have any questions about NABCEP policy and regs, please contact her directly
> at  or (800) 654-0021.
>
> Per the Candidate Information Handbook Section 6.2 on www.nabcep.org,
> following is some detail about what is provided during the exam. Please note
> that NABCEP has always used the Casio fx 260 solar Fraction calculator.
> Fortunately, when supplies need to be replenished, this model has remained
> available, although that may not always be the case.
>
> *6.2 What to Bring to the Exam
> *
> The NABCEP certification exam is designed to be completed with the aid of
> the National Electrical Code(R). The text and materials required to take the
> test will be provided for each candidate at the test site, including:
>
> *1. 2008 National Electrical Code, NFPA 70
> *2. Calculator (For example, a Casio fx260, a Texas Instruments TI-30Xa,
> or a similar model)
> 3. Two #2 pencils
>
> All materials will be returned to the Proctor at the end of the exam, where
> they will be inspected. No changes are to be made to the National Electrical
> Code(R) text or to the calculators, and under no condition will these items
> leave the testing room at any time.
>
> In addition to the materials that NABCEP will supply, candidates may bring
> water in a closeable container. No other food items are allowed in the
> testing room. Any personal items or supplies needed during the examination
> must be encased in a clear plastic bag, no larger than 8.5" X 11" in size.
> Please be advised that due to circumstances beyond our control, examination
> sites may experience minor disturbances. It is recommended that candidates
> who are sensitive to noise bring earplugs.
>
> *6.3 What Not to Bring to the Examination
> *
> Unauthorized supplies will be subject to removal by the testing officials
> at the examination site. The following items are NOT allowed in the
> examination room and will be confiscated during the exam and returned
> afterward:
>
> " Watches – a clock will be provided in the room.
> " Any part of workbooks and materials, bound or loose-leaf notes.
> " Handwritten and typewritten notes are not allowed.
> " Pull-off labels, removable tabs, paper clips, or metal clamps.
> " Paper, writing tablets, or notepads.
> " Highlighters.
> " Personal calculators and electronic organizers.
> " Cameras, tape recorders, or computers.
> " Pagers, electronic transmitting devices, or telephones.
> " Canisters of mace, pepper spray, or other personal defense items.
> " Purses, briefcases, portfolios, fanny packs, or backpacks – a space
> within the testing room will be provided for you to leave bags of this kind.
> Any personal supplies that you need in the exam with you (inhalers, extra
> glasses, tissues) should be placed in a clear plastic bag no larger than
> 8.5" x 11.
>
>
>
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>
> Options & settings:
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>
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>
>
>
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Re: [RE-wrenches] NABCEP Test: Codebook or Handbook?

[Michael Welch]

Hi Gang. 
Rebecca Eaton, Exec. Dir. of NABCEP asked me to pass this on to you. If
you have any questions about NABCEP policy and regs, please contact her
directly at  or (800) 654-0021. 
Per the Candidate Information
Handbook Section 6.2 on
www.nabcep.org,
following is some detail about what is provided during the exam. Please
note that NABCEP has always used the Casio fx 260 solar Fraction
calculator.  Fortunately, when supplies need to be replenished, this
model has remained available, although that may not always be the
case.
6.2 What to Bring to the Exam
 
The NABCEP certification exam is designed to be completed with the aid of
the National Electrical Code®. The text and materials required to take
the test will be provided for each candidate at the test site,
including:
 
1. 2008 National Electrical Code, NFPA 70
2. Calculator (For example, a Casio fx260, a Texas Instruments
TI-30Xa, or a similar model)
3. Two #2 pencils
 
All materials will be returned to the Proctor at the end of the exam,
where they will be inspected. No changes are to be made to the National
Electrical Code® text or to the calculators, and under no condition will
these items leave the testing room at any time.
In addition to the materials that NABCEP will supply, candidates may
bring water in a closeable container. No other food items are allowed in
the testing room. Any personal items or supplies needed during the
examination must be encased in a clear plastic bag, no larger than
8.5" X 11" in size. Please be advised that due to circumstances
beyond our control, examination sites may experience minor disturbances.
It is recommended that candidates who are sensitive to noise bring
earplugs.
 
6.3 What Not to Bring to the Examination
 
Unauthorized supplies will be subject to removal by the testing officials
at the examination site. The following items are NOT allowed in the
examination room and will be confiscated during the exam and returned
afterward:
 
” Watches – a clock will be provided in the room.
” Any part of workbooks and materials, bound or loose-leaf notes.
” Handwritten and typewritten notes are not allowed.
” Pull-off labels, removable tabs, paper clips, or metal clamps.
” Paper, writing tablets, or notepads.
” Highlighters.
” Personal calculators and electronic organizers.
” Cameras, tape recorders, or computers.
” Pagers, electronic transmitting devices, or telephones.
” Canisters of mace, pepper spray, or other personal defense items.
” Purses, briefcases, portfolios, fanny packs, or backpacks – a space
within the testing room will be provided for you to leave bags of this
kind. Any personal supplies that you need in the exam with you (inhalers,
extra glasses, tissues) should be placed in a clear plastic bag no larger
than 8.5” x 11.




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Re: [RE-wrenches] Back feeding battery inverter with grid-tieinverter

[Mark Dickson]

The Outbacks will definitely work.  We recently completed and Fronius AC
coupled system (ran DC on the home run) and back feeding the Outback quad
stack.  We ran short on relays, so we used a Morningstar Relay Driver which
was very simple to use and gave us 4 additional programmable relays.  When
the batteries fill up we have the first relay kick on an electric space
heater, a second one kicks on some ice melters and the third cuts the power
between the Fronius and the AC panel.  It tested out great and I am
returning to commission it this Thursday-so we shall see.

 

Our system is an off grid system though and I am not sure how it would work
with the grid without the GFX inverters.  We have the generator for back-up.

 

Mark Dickson

Oasis Montana Inc.

   
www.oasismontana.com

 

www.grid-tie.com  

 

   
www.PVsolarpumps.com 

  _  

From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org
[mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of Steve
Johnson
Sent: Tuesday, January 20, 2009 2:47 PM
To: RE-wrenches
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Back feeding battery inverter with
grid-tieinverter

 

(This has already been said a few times but I am testing my new email on the
list and might as well put in my 2 cents. the first one bounced back so I'm
checking registration again)  steve

 

Jeff,

 

Why not send DC back to the garage and set your Sunny boy there.

By sending 350VDC back you will have considerably less voltage drop to deal
with than 240 VAC.  There is no charge controller as it is AC coupled.

 

I know the old SW4024 takes AC both ways on the AC in.

 

I am doing a similar installation, AC coupled, but with outback VFX instead
of Xantrex.

The outback will not backfeed the grid as it is an off grid inverter.  It
has an internal transfer switch.  The Aux relay has to be connected to a
relay to disconnect the sunny boy ac circuit to prevent of overcharging the
batteries as there is no charge controller.  So yes the sb charges the
batteries and feeds the subpanel both.

 

When the grid fails the sunny boy disconnects.  After 5 minutes it will see
the ac from the outback battery backup and reconnect (thru the emergency
panel).  Outback has an ac coupling paper on their website.  I am not
familiar with the new xantrex's.

 

Steve

 

-Original Message-
From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org
[mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of Jeff Yago
Sent: Sunday, January 18, 2009 11:31 PM
To: RE-wrenches
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Back feeding battery inverter with
grid-tieinverter

 

I know this subject has come up before, but there have been several
different suggested ways to handle the problem and I was hoping for easiest.
We install lots of both on grid and off grid systems.  However, we have a
client that will require a ground mounted array much futher away from the
inverter and batteries in the garage than we normally would want to do since
the voltage drop for this long distance would be excessive at low voltage
even with large cables.  We have decided to locate a weather-proof sunnyboy
grid-tie inverter at the array, and supply 120/240 volts to the critical
loads sub-panel which is supplied by a Xanrex XW inverter and battery bank
in the garage. I realize there are several design issues here when the grid
is down,  since we want the grid-tie inverter to remain on but be blocked
from the grid by the Xantrex inverter.  

 

The question is, what is the best way to keep a load on the sunnyboy since
it will not be grid connected during an outage.  Also, is there a best way
to feed the output from the Sunnyboy to the Xantrex that does not just power
the sub-panel loads during an outage, but also will re-charge the battery
bank through the Xanrex?

 

If you back-feed the Xanrex from the sub-panel it is normally supplying with
output from the Sunnyboy, will the Xanrex see this input and think the grid
is up and be able to re-charge the battery bank?

 

Will we need any separate transfer switches or power relays?

 

Thanks,

 

Jeff Yago

 

 

 

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Re: [RE-wrenches] Back feeding battery inverter with grid-tieinverter

[Steve Johnson]

(This has already been said a few times but I am testing my new email on the 
list and might as well put in my 2 cents. the first one bounced back so I'm 
checking registration again)  steve



Jeff,



Why not send DC back to the garage and set your Sunny boy there.

By sending 350VDC back you will have considerably less voltage drop to deal 
with than 240 VAC.  There is no charge controller as it is AC coupled.



I know the old SW4024 takes AC both ways on the AC in.



I am doing a similar installation, AC coupled, but with outback VFX instead of 
Xantrex.

The outback will not backfeed the grid as it is an off grid inverter.  It has 
an internal transfer switch.  The Aux relay has to be connected to a relay to 
disconnect the sunny boy ac circuit to prevent of overcharging the batteries as 
there is no charge controller.  So yes the sb charges the batteries and feeds 
the subpanel both.



When the grid fails the sunny boy disconnects.  After 5 minutes it will see the 
ac from the outback battery backup and reconnect (thru the emergency panel).  
Outback has an ac coupling paper on their website.  I am not familiar with the 
new xantrex's.



Steve



-Original Message-
From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org 
[mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of Jeff Yago
Sent: Sunday, January 18, 2009 11:31 PM
To: RE-wrenches
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Back feeding battery inverter with grid-tieinverter



I know this subject has come up before, but there have been several different 
suggested ways to handle the problem and I was hoping for easiest.  We install 
lots of both on grid and off grid systems.  However, we have a client that will 
require a ground mounted array much futher away from the inverter and batteries 
in the garage than we normally would want to do since the voltage drop for this 
long distance would be excessive at low voltage even with large cables.  We 
have decided to locate a weather-proof sunnyboy grid-tie inverter at the array, 
and supply 120/240 volts to the critical loads sub-panel which is supplied by a 
Xanrex XW inverter and battery bank in the garage. I realize there are several 
design issues here when the grid is down,  since we want the grid-tie inverter 
to remain on but be blocked from the grid by the Xantrex inverter.



The question is, what is the best way to keep a load on the sunnyboy since it 
will not be grid connected during an outage.  Also, is there a best way to feed 
the output from the Sunnyboy to the Xantrex that does not just power the 
sub-panel loads during an outage, but also will re-charge the battery bank 
through the Xanrex?



If you back-feed the Xanrex from the sub-panel it is normally supplying with 
output from the Sunnyboy, will the Xanrex see this input and think the grid is 
up and be able to re-charge the battery bank?



Will we need any separate transfer switches or power relays?



Thanks,



Jeff Yago



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[RE-wrenches] 48 Volt Heatpump

[Carl Emerson]

Hi there,

 

Is there a reliable cooling product that will run from 48VDC and deliver 1
or 2 kW of cooling?

 

Carl Emerson

Free Power Ltd.

Auckland New Zealand.

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Re: [RE-wrenches] Back feeding battery inverter with grid-tie inverter

[Dana Brandt]

I agree that whether you go with AC or DC coupling you'll want to run the DC
from the array to the battery inverter location to take advantage of the
higher voltage. If you go with AC and the Xantrex XW you'll want to talk
with them directly about backfeeding the inverter from the load side. I
don't know about their current equipment, but in the past they said not to
backfeed them. However, it worked just fine given the H-bridge inverter
design. I wouldn't go with a design that works but is not recommended by the
manufacturer for a client, though. I'd get Xantrex to ok it first.

Do you already have the XW? If not, another option for AC coupling would be
to talk with Outback. They've done a few of these systems and can help you
put it together.

Dana

-- 
Dana Brandt
Ecotech Energy Systems, LLC
www.ecotechenergy.com
d...@ecotechenergy.com
360.510.0433

On Sun, Jan 18, 2009 at 9:31 PM, Jeff Yago  wrote:

> I know this subject has come up before, but there have been several
> different suggested ways to handle the problem and I was hoping for easiest.
>  We install lots of both on grid and off grid systems.  However, we have a
> client that will require a ground mounted array much futher away from the
> inverter and batteries in the garage than we normally would want to do since
> the voltage drop for this long distance would be excessive at low voltage
> even with large cables.  We have decided to locate a weather-proof sunnyboy
> grid-tie inverter at the array, and supply 120/240 volts to the critical
> loads sub-panel which is supplied by a Xanrex XW inverter and battery bank
> in the garage. I realize there are several design issues here when the grid
> is down,  since we want the grid-tie inverter to remain on but be blocked
> from the grid by the Xantrex inverter.
>
> The question is, what is the best way to keep a load on the sunnyboy since
> it will not be grid connected during an outage.  Also, is there a best way
> to feed the output from the Sunnyboy to the Xantrex that does not just power
> the sub-panel loads during an outage, but also will re-charge the battery
> bank through the Xanrex?
>
> If you back-feed the Xanrex from the sub-panel it is normally supplying
> with output from the Sunnyboy, will the Xanrex see this input and think the
> grid is up and be able to re-charge the battery bank?
>
> Will we need any separate transfer switches or power relays?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Jeff Yago
>
> _
> Netscape.  Just the Net You Need.
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[RE-wrenches] Mobile Solar power Center

[Tom DeBates]

good day Peter,
  A Kiwi buddy (are you there Bruce?) puts a classT fuse at the battery 
terminal (where it should be, right?).
  You may also want to look at 
   http://ecatalog.westmarine.com/full.asp?page=0423&LinkBackProdId=299117
   Click on "Model" for more info.

good luck,
Tom

Tom DeBates

Habi-Tek

524 Summit St.

Geneva,IL. 60134

630-262-8193

fax 630-262-1343


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Re: [RE-wrenches] [SPAM] Re: wrenches] NABCEP Test: Codebook or Handbook?

[Randy Hatch]

Wrenches,

I took the September exam.  The Codebook was provided.  The Handbook was not.

Thank you,

Randy Hatch
Third Sun Solar and Wind Power
740-597-3111

- Original Message -
From: "Louis Woofenden" 
To: "RE-wrenches" 
Sent: Tuesday, January 20, 2009 12:41:58 AM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] [SPAM] Re: wrenches] NABCEP Test: Codebook or 
Handbook?


Hi Mike,

I took the Solar Thermal exam in September, and the guys on the other 
side of the room taking the PV exam were given codebooks. We certainly 
had just the code books back in the fall of '04 when I took the PV 
exam.  But perhaps something has changed very recently?

Best,

Louis Woofenden
Tucson, AZ
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