Re: [RE-wrenches] Lightning protection system

[Richard L Ratico]

Hi Drake,

Dont know why not. Meet code as much as possible:

1) AWG of the lightning down conductor adequate?
2) Use non reversible, listed connector to splice array SGEC
to down conductor
3) Do you need an additional ground rod? Resistance to earth OK?
4) These rod/rods need to be bonded to the structure grounding electrode system
5) Is there an AHJ? If so, ask for input.

Hope this helps.

Dick

Dick Ratico
Solarwind Electric


--- You wrote:
Can the supplemental grounding electrode conductor be connected to a 
lightning protection system?

We have a case where it would be difficult to run a GEC down a multi 
story building, but have a convenient copper wire, from a lightning 
protection system, that runs to a rod.

Thank you,

Drake Chamberlin
Athens Electric
OH License 44810
CO License 3773
740-448-7328
740-856-9648  
--- end of quote ---
Hi
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Chimneys Rigid vs EMT

[Richard L Ratico]

Hi Peter,

I have installed a lot of RMC. You may have also. It is my opinion that 
a well secured run of this conduit, installed in this manner, 
could take the hit you describe and still protect the enclosed conductors.

--- You wrote:

(2) They also disallow a rigid conduit run anywhere on the exterior surface
of a chimney. Where a conduit run on an exterior wall encounters a chimney,
they require that the conduit run follow the line where the chimney meets
the wall/roof. This means up the wall, along the roof and back down the
wall.

Although I think (1) is overkill, I will comply this once and engage the AHJ
before the next job we have in this town; I have graver reservations about
(2). I have lived over 50 years in California and I have seen the results
severe earthquakes can have on residential chimneys. If the chimney goes,
the first place it happens is on the unsupported portion above the roof. The
next place the chimney fails is the higher portion, attached to the building
frame. I think I can remember just one case where a chimney failed within 3
feet of the foundation, and in that case most of the rest of the structure
failed. Consequently if a chimney fails, there will be hundreds of pounds of
brick raining down on the rigid conduit where it runs along the chimney roof
interface.
--- end of quote ---

--- You wrote:
I would argue that the safest place for a rigid conduit run would be around
the chimney in the crawl space (if any) underneath the house, attached to
floor joists. If that option is not available I would argue for a run around
(and anchored to) the exterior chimney at about 2-3 feet above grade
--- end of quote ---

How about switching to Rigid Nonmetallic Conduit just above grade and going
underground, around the chimney, and on to the location of the disconnect or
entry.

No comment on the reasonableness of the requirement.

Dick

Dick Ratico
Solarwind Electric
Bradford, VT 
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Re: [RE-wrenches] batteries

[Ezra Auerbach]

I'm coming out of my third wet coast winter with a set of 48 Vdc 750  
amp hour Surrette batteries. I'd recommend them unhesitatingly.


Regards,

Ezra Auerbach

DragonSun Consulting
On 5-Mar-09, at 11:00 PM, t...@hughes.net wrote:

Surrette has a new 2 volt "L 16" size,1100 Ahr @20 hour rate  
battery. Jamie says they should be shipping with in next few weeks.  
Contact me off list FNI.

Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T

-Original Message-
From: "Jeff Blick" 

Date: Thu, 5 Mar 2009 20:45:46
To: 
Subject: [RE-wrenches] batteries


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Re: [RE-wrenches] Chimneys Rigid vs EMT

[Bob-O Schultze]

Daryl,
The Romex is a pretty clear violation of 690.31. This and the Pasadena  
fiasco that Peter Parish speaks of illustrates a very common problem  
that we all have. When it comes to photovoltaics, most AHJs don't know  
their Athority from a hole in the ground.

Bob-O

On Mar 6, 2009, at 11:27 AM, Darryl Thayer wrote:


no I have not, however I have seen where an AHJ has allowed romex from  
the array down to the inverter in the basement through the house, the  
array wire to a 3r disconnect on the roof and plastic from the disco  
to the building entrance in the attic. No metal conduit from the array  
to the inverter occurred.  your case the AHJ is over kill, in my case  
is clear under protection, because the DC from solar can arc without  
overcurrent protection helping at all.


Darryl


--- On Fri, 3/6/09, Peter Parrish  wrote:


From: Peter Parrish 
Subject: [RE-wrenches]  Chimneys Rigid vs EMT
To: "'RE-wrenches'" 
Date: Friday, March 6, 2009, 12:55 PM
We have an interesting situation in the enclave of Pasadena,
CA.

(1) The Pasadena Building and Safety Department is
requiring the use of
rigid conduit (only) on any DC and AC runs for grid-tied PV
systems. They
specifically prohibit EMT, LFNC and LFMC. This requirement
applies to any DC
or AC runs on the roof, and it applies to any DC or AC runs
on exterior
walls.

They do not require the use of rigid conduit on A/C
equipment, lighting or
any other piece of equipment requiring exterior-mounted
conduit conveying
electrical power.

(2) They also disallow a rigid conduit run anywhere on the
exterior surface
of a chimney. Where a conduit run on an exterior wall
encounters a chimney,
they require that the conduit run follow the line where the
chimney meets
the wall/roof. This means up the wall, along the roof and
back down the
wall.

Although I think (1) is overkill, I will comply this once
and engage the AHJ
before the next job we have in this town; I have graver
reservations about
(2). I have lived over 50 years in California and I have
seen the results
severe earthquakes can have on residential chimneys. If the
chimney goes,
the first place it happens is on the unsupported portion
above the roof. The
next place the chimney fails is the higher portion,
attached to the building
frame. I think I can remember just one case where a chimney
failed within 3
feet of the foundation, and in that case most of the rest
of the structure
failed. Consequently if a chimney fails, there will be
hundreds of pounds of
brick raining down on the rigid conduit where it runs along
the chimney roof
interface.

I would argue that the safest place for a rigid conduit run
would be around
the chimney in the crawl space (if any) underneath the
house, attached to
floor joists. If that option is not available I would argue
for a run around
(and anchored to) the exterior chimney at about 2-3 feet
above grade.

Is item (2) essentially a B&S issue not addressed by
the Fire Department?

Has anyone encountered these sorts of requirements
elsewhere?

Comments?

- Peter

Peter T. Parrish, President
California Solar Engineering, Inc.
820 Cynthia Ave., Los Angeles, CA 90065
Ph 323-258-8883, Mobile 323-839-6108, Fax 323-258-8885
CA Lic. 854779, NABCEP Cert. 031806-26
peter.parr...@calsolareng.com


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Re: [RE-wrenches] Solec module needed

[Richard L Ratico]

Hi Allan,

There are a few listings for the SM55 on eBay right now.

Dick 

Dick Ratico
Solarwind Electric
Bradford, VT

--- You wrote:
Any old 50W Solec modules laying around? I need one to replace one that has
failed on a tracker. 13" X 51", 1998 era. An Arco or Siemens M55 would
probably work out too.
Thanks,
Allan Sindelar
allan(at)positiveenergysolar.com  
NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installer
Positive Energy, Inc.
3201 Calle Marie
Santa Fe NM 87507
505 424-1112
www.positiveenergysolar.com
--- end of quote ---
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Re: [RE-wrenches] AC disconnect options

[North Texas Renewable Energy Inc]

Andrew
I use the CH disconnect at the inverter as a maintenance disconnect but only if 
the main utility disconnect is not close by. 
I consider it $14 well spent. The switch is replaceable with a 2P breaker so it 
may serve another purpose there. 
The only drawback is that there's not much room for wires and sometines they 
must be crammed into the tiny available space.
Jim Duncan
North Texas Renewable Energy Inc
817.917.0527
nt...@earthlink.net
www.ntrei.com 



  - Original Message - 
  From: Andrew Truitt 
  To: RE-wrenches 
  Sent: Wednesday, March 04, 2009 11:24 AM
  Subject: [RE-wrenches] AC disconnect options



  Greetings!  

  Has anyone ever used a 240V, 60A Cutler-Hammer Air Conditioning Disconnect:

  
http://www.eaton.com/EatonCom/Markets/Electrical/Products/ResidentialProducts/AirconditioningDisconnectsACD/index.htm?ssSourceNodeId=3483&ssSourceSiteId=EatonCom

  as an AC disconnect?  They are cheaper and seem inherently safer (all live 
components are behind a plastic shield).  I love the old square D switches but 
this just seems like a better option so long as it is appropriate for the 
application.


  Andrew Truitt
  Standard Solar Inc.


  -- 
  "Don't get me wrong: I love nuclear energy! It's just that I prefer fusion to 
fission. And it just so happens that there's an enormous fusion reactor safely 
banked a few million miles from us. It delivers more than we could ever use in 
just about 8 minutes. And it's wireless!"

  ~William McDonough




--


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Re: [RE-wrenches] Chimneys Rigid vs EMT

[Darryl Thayer]

no I have not, however I have seen where an AHJ has allowed romex from the 
array down to the inverter in the basement through the house, the array wire to 
a 3r disconnect on the roof and plastic from the disco to the building entrance 
in the attic. No metal conduit from the array to the inverter occurred.  your 
case the AHJ is over kill, in my case is clear under protection, because the DC 
from solar can arc without overcurrent protection helping at all.  

Darryl


--- On Fri, 3/6/09, Peter Parrish  wrote:

> From: Peter Parrish 
> Subject: [RE-wrenches]  Chimneys Rigid vs EMT
> To: "'RE-wrenches'" 
> Date: Friday, March 6, 2009, 12:55 PM
> We have an interesting situation in the enclave of Pasadena,
> CA. 
> 
> (1) The Pasadena Building and Safety Department is
> requiring the use of
> rigid conduit (only) on any DC and AC runs for grid-tied PV
> systems. They
> specifically prohibit EMT, LFNC and LFMC. This requirement
> applies to any DC
> or AC runs on the roof, and it applies to any DC or AC runs
> on exterior
> walls.
> 
> They do not require the use of rigid conduit on A/C
> equipment, lighting or
> any other piece of equipment requiring exterior-mounted
> conduit conveying
> electrical power.
> 
> (2) They also disallow a rigid conduit run anywhere on the
> exterior surface
> of a chimney. Where a conduit run on an exterior wall
> encounters a chimney,
> they require that the conduit run follow the line where the
> chimney meets
> the wall/roof. This means up the wall, along the roof and
> back down the
> wall.
> 
> Although I think (1) is overkill, I will comply this once
> and engage the AHJ
> before the next job we have in this town; I have graver
> reservations about
> (2). I have lived over 50 years in California and I have
> seen the results
> severe earthquakes can have on residential chimneys. If the
> chimney goes,
> the first place it happens is on the unsupported portion
> above the roof. The
> next place the chimney fails is the higher portion,
> attached to the building
> frame. I think I can remember just one case where a chimney
> failed within 3
> feet of the foundation, and in that case most of the rest
> of the structure
> failed. Consequently if a chimney fails, there will be
> hundreds of pounds of
> brick raining down on the rigid conduit where it runs along
> the chimney roof
> interface.
> 
> I would argue that the safest place for a rigid conduit run
> would be around
> the chimney in the crawl space (if any) underneath the
> house, attached to
> floor joists. If that option is not available I would argue
> for a run around
> (and anchored to) the exterior chimney at about 2-3 feet
> above grade.
> 
> Is item (2) essentially a B&S issue not addressed by
> the Fire Department? 
> 
> Has anyone encountered these sorts of requirements
> elsewhere?
> 
> Comments?
> 
> - Peter
> 
> Peter T. Parrish, President
> California Solar Engineering, Inc.
> 820 Cynthia Ave., Los Angeles, CA 90065
> Ph 323-258-8883, Mobile 323-839-6108, Fax 323-258-8885
> CA Lic. 854779, NABCEP Cert. 031806-26
> peter.parr...@calsolareng.com 
> 
> 
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Chimneys Rigid vs EMT

[SOLARPRO]

Peter:
 
Newport Beach, CA.  They backed away from the AC run in rigid  however.  It 
was either rigid OR a remote DC disco, operable from the  ground at the main 
service entrance, that would cut off all power to runs at the  array.  No 
chimney issues as of today, at 11:24 AM PST, March 6,  2009.
 
People should get their systems soon before it will be impossible to get a  
permit (or afford the design changes).
 
All the inverter manufacturers should be working on micro inverters and  give 
Enphase a run for their money.
But a micro-inverter would not help in Pasadena, apparently.
 
Patrick A. Redgate
AMECO Solar, Inc.
7623 Somerset,  Blvd.
Paramount, CA 90723
562-633-4400

_www.amecosolar.com_ (http://www.amecosolar.com/) 


In a message dated 3/6/2009 10:56:15 A.M. Pacific Standard Time,  
peter.parr...@calsolareng.com writes:

We have  an interesting situation in the enclave of Pasadena, CA. 

(1) The  Pasadena Building and Safety Department is requiring the use of
rigid  conduit (only) on any DC and AC runs for grid-tied PV systems.  They
specifically prohibit EMT, LFNC and LFMC. This requirement applies to  any DC
or AC runs on the roof, and it applies to any DC or AC runs on  exterior
walls.

They do not require the use of rigid conduit on A/C  equipment, lighting or
any other piece of equipment requiring  exterior-mounted conduit conveying
electrical power.

(2) They also  disallow a rigid conduit run anywhere on the exterior surface
of a chimney.  Where a conduit run on an exterior wall encounters a chimney,
they require  that the conduit run follow the line where the chimney meets
the wall/roof.  This means up the wall, along the roof and back down  the
wall.

Although I think (1) is overkill, I will comply this once  and engage the AHJ
before the next job we have in this town; I have graver  reservations about
(2). I have lived over 50 years in California and I have  seen the results
severe earthquakes can have on residential chimneys. If  the chimney goes,
the first place it happens is on the unsupported portion  above the roof. The
next place the chimney fails is the higher portion,  attached to the building
frame. I think I can remember just one case where  a chimney failed within 3
feet of the foundation, and in that case most of  the rest of the structure
failed. Consequently if a chimney fails, there  will be hundreds of pounds of
brick raining down on the rigid conduit where  it runs along the chimney roof
interface.

I would argue that the  safest place for a rigid conduit run would be around
the chimney in the  crawl space (if any) underneath the house, attached to
floor joists. If  that option is not available I would argue for a run around
(and anchored  to) the exterior chimney at about 2-3 feet above grade.

Is item (2)  essentially a B&S issue not addressed by the Fire Department? 

Has  anyone encountered these sorts of requirements  elsewhere?

Comments?

- Peter

Peter T. Parrish,  President
California Solar Engineering, Inc.
820 Cynthia Ave., Los  Angeles, CA 90065
Ph 323-258-8883, Mobile 323-839-6108, Fax  323-258-8885
CA Lic. 854779, NABCEP Cert.  031806-26
peter.parr...@calsolareng.com  


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[RE-wrenches] Chimneys Rigid vs EMT

[Peter Parrish]

We have an interesting situation in the enclave of Pasadena, CA. 

(1) The Pasadena Building and Safety Department is requiring the use of
rigid conduit (only) on any DC and AC runs for grid-tied PV systems. They
specifically prohibit EMT, LFNC and LFMC. This requirement applies to any DC
or AC runs on the roof, and it applies to any DC or AC runs on exterior
walls.

They do not require the use of rigid conduit on A/C equipment, lighting or
any other piece of equipment requiring exterior-mounted conduit conveying
electrical power.

(2) They also disallow a rigid conduit run anywhere on the exterior surface
of a chimney. Where a conduit run on an exterior wall encounters a chimney,
they require that the conduit run follow the line where the chimney meets
the wall/roof. This means up the wall, along the roof and back down the
wall.

Although I think (1) is overkill, I will comply this once and engage the AHJ
before the next job we have in this town; I have graver reservations about
(2). I have lived over 50 years in California and I have seen the results
severe earthquakes can have on residential chimneys. If the chimney goes,
the first place it happens is on the unsupported portion above the roof. The
next place the chimney fails is the higher portion, attached to the building
frame. I think I can remember just one case where a chimney failed within 3
feet of the foundation, and in that case most of the rest of the structure
failed. Consequently if a chimney fails, there will be hundreds of pounds of
brick raining down on the rigid conduit where it runs along the chimney roof
interface.

I would argue that the safest place for a rigid conduit run would be around
the chimney in the crawl space (if any) underneath the house, attached to
floor joists. If that option is not available I would argue for a run around
(and anchored to) the exterior chimney at about 2-3 feet above grade.

Is item (2) essentially a B&S issue not addressed by the Fire Department? 

Has anyone encountered these sorts of requirements elsewhere?

Comments?

- Peter

Peter T. Parrish, President
California Solar Engineering, Inc.
820 Cynthia Ave., Los Angeles, CA 90065
Ph 323-258-8883, Mobile 323-839-6108, Fax 323-258-8885
CA Lic. 854779, NABCEP Cert. 031806-26
peter.parr...@calsolareng.com 


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[RE-wrenches] Solec module needed

[Allan Sindelar]

Any old 50W Solec modules laying around? I need one to replace one that has
failed on a tracker. 13" X 51", 1998 era. An Arco or Siemens M55 would
probably work out too.
Thanks,
Allan Sindelar
allan(at)positiveenergysolar.com  
NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installer
Positive Energy, Inc.
3201 Calle Marie
Santa Fe NM 87507
505 424-1112
www.positiveenergysolar.com

Please consider the environment before printing this e-mail. 


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Re: [RE-wrenches] Lightning protection system

[David Palumbo]

I'll have to agree with Darryl Thayer. All of the master electricians we
work with in Northern New England, a lightning prone area, combine the
system equipment grounding with any special lightning grounding that may be
on the building.

I agree with Joel on the clause in the contract excluding acts of nature, we
also specifically exclude vandalism, system owner misuse, or abuse, of
system etc.

David Palumbo, President
Independent Power LLC
462 Solar Way Drive
Hyde Park, VT 05655
NABCEP Certified PV Installer
www.independentpowerllc.com 
802-888-7194



-Original Message-
From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org
[mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org]on Behalf Of Joel
Davidson
Sent: Friday, March 06, 2009 11:31 AM
To: RE-wrenches
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Lightning protection system


Drake,

Most electricians like to keep the electrical ground and the lightning
ground separate which is probably a good idea, but lightning current is
likely to follow all paths because earth is common. The best practice is to
follow the Code and if the site is in a lightning area, subcontract that
part of the work to a local licensed expert (added cost) or put a clause in
your contract that protects you from acts of god and specify lightning.

Joel Davidson

- Original Message -
From: "Drake Chamberlin" 
To: "RE-wrenches" 
Sent: Friday, March 06, 2009 6:47 AM
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Lightning protection system


>I didn't get a reply to the question about connecting the GEC to the
>lightning protection system on the 8 story building.  Although this may
>seem like an intrinsically dangerous idea, a lightning protection system is
>required to be bonded to the building grounding electrode system.
>
> "250.106 Lightning Protection Systems.
> The lightning protection system ground terminals shall be bonded to the
> building or structure grounding electrode system."
>
> It would therefore seem that the suplemental ground could connect to that
> system as well, and in fact use the existing conductor.  Any input would
> be welcome.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Drake
>
>
>
>
> At 09:19 PM 3/4/2009, you wrote:
>>Hello Wrenches,
>>
>>Can the supplemental grounding electrode conductor be connected to a
>>lightning protection system?
>>
>>We have a case where it would be difficult to run a GEC down a multi story
>>building, but have a convenient copper wire, from a lightning protection
>>system, that runs to a rod.
>>
>>Thank you,
>>
>>Drake Chamberlin
>>Athens Electric
>>OH License 44810
>>CO License 3773
>>740-448-7328
>>740-856-9648
>>
>>
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>>www.members.re-wrenches.org
>>
>
> Drake Chamberlin
> Athens Electric
> OH License 44810
> CO License 3773
> 740-448-7328
> 740-856-9648
>
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Lightning protection system

[Joel Davidson]

Drake,

Most electricians like to keep the electrical ground and the lightning 
ground separate which is probably a good idea, but lightning current is 
likely to follow all paths because earth is common. The best practice is to 
follow the Code and if the site is in a lightning area, subcontract that 
part of the work to a local licensed expert (added cost) or put a clause in 
your contract that protects you from acts of god and specify lightning.


Joel Davidson

- Original Message - 
From: "Drake Chamberlin" 

To: "RE-wrenches" 
Sent: Friday, March 06, 2009 6:47 AM
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Lightning protection system


I didn't get a reply to the question about connecting the GEC to the 
lightning protection system on the 8 story building.  Although this may 
seem like an intrinsically dangerous idea, a lightning protection system is 
required to be bonded to the building grounding electrode system.


"250.106 Lightning Protection Systems.
The lightning protection system ground terminals shall be bonded to the 
building or structure grounding electrode system."


It would therefore seem that the suplemental ground could connect to that 
system as well, and in fact use the existing conductor.  Any input would 
be welcome.


Thanks,

Drake




At 09:19 PM 3/4/2009, you wrote:

Hello Wrenches,

Can the supplemental grounding electrode conductor be connected to a 
lightning protection system?


We have a case where it would be difficult to run a GEC down a multi story 
building, but have a convenient copper wire, from a lightning protection 
system, that runs to a rod.


Thank you,

Drake Chamberlin
Athens Electric
OH License 44810
CO License 3773
740-448-7328
740-856-9648


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Drake Chamberlin
Athens Electric
OH License 44810
CO License 3773
740-448-7328
740-856-9648

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Re: [RE-wrenches] Lightning protection system

[Darryl Thayer]

Yes the electric power and atmospheric grounding systems should be connected 
together to serve as a larger better grounding system.  The Electrical code 
requires that at only one point does the neutral (grounded) conductor of the 
electrical power system get connected to the grounding system, this is to 
prevent the grounding electrode system from carrying electrical power system 
currents.  The electrical power system is to be grounded to prevent the 
electrical power system from differentiating its self via the injection of 
energy from other electric power sources including atmospheric electrical 
energy.
 

The lightening protection system is to create a path from the atmospheric 
energy to the earth grounding system.  ((Wind rain, dust and friction cause the 
atmosphere to become charged relative to the earth, conducting objects can 
build a charge if not electrically connected to the earth, these current flow 
all the time, although they are small sometimes, and in the case of a 
lightening strike incredibly large.  Even small currents can build large 
voltages and fail electronic components.  

The frames of solar modules are electrical conduction components not normally 
charged that can present a personal, and physical damage potential 
(life-property) if they become charged by the electrical power system and 
therefor the underwriters require they be protected by grounding.  This 
accidental energy need to be safely returned to the electrical power system, 
and properly this is called bonding back to the neutral conductor.  This 
grounding is described by the NEC in 690 and 250 primarily.   The frames of the 
modules can become charged by atmospheric energy energy, this energy needs to 
be returned to the earth, via the lightening protection system, ie grounding 
electrode system.  The code says little about this, however, it is addressed in 
690 and 250.  

Sorry I said so much.
Darryl


--- On Fri, 3/6/09, Drake Chamberlin  
wrote:

> From: Drake Chamberlin 
> Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Lightning protection system
> To: "RE-wrenches" 
> Date: Friday, March 6, 2009, 8:47 AM
> I didn't get a reply to the question about connecting
> the GEC to the 
> lightning protection system on the 8 story building. 
> Although this 
> may seem like an intrinsically dangerous idea, a lightning
> protection 
> system is required to be bonded to the building grounding
> electrode system.
> 
> "250.106 Lightning Protection Systems.
> The lightning protection system ground terminals shall be
> bonded to 
> the building or structure grounding electrode system."
> 
> It would therefore seem that the suplemental ground could
> connect to 
> that system as well, and in fact use the existing
> conductor.  Any 
> input would be welcome.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Drake
> 
> 
> 
> 
> At 09:19 PM 3/4/2009, you wrote:
> >Hello Wrenches,
> >
> >Can the supplemental grounding electrode conductor be
> connected to a 
> >lightning protection system?
> >
> >We have a case where it would be difficult to run a GEC
> down a multi 
> >story building, but have a convenient copper wire, from
> a lightning 
> >protection system, that runs to a rod.
> >
> >Thank you,
> >
> >Drake Chamberlin
> >Athens Electric
> >OH License 44810
> >CO License 3773
> >740-448-7328
> >740-856-9648
> >
> >
> >___
> >List sponsored by Home Power magazine
> >
> >List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org
> >
> >Options & settings:
> >http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
> >
> >List-Archive: 
> >http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
> >
> >List rules & etiquette:
> >www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm
> >
> >Check out participant bios:
> >www.members.re-wrenches.org
> >
> 
> Drake Chamberlin
> Athens Electric
> OH License 44810
> CO License 3773
> 740-448-7328
> 740-856-9648  
> 
> 
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Re: [RE-wrenches] PV maintenance costs

[Joel Davidson]

Hello Phil,

Most people figure on $0.005/W, but I have not seen it actually go that high 
unless the project has a lot of inverter problems or needs array cleaning 
more than once a year (assuming the system was designed and installed 
properly). On residential PV systems without batteries up to 10 kW, if more 
than 1 hour per year is spent inspecting and cleaning, then it's tinkering, 
not maintenance. Most people plug into the equation inverter replacement at 
10 or 15 years. Older inverters usually did not last 10 years (except for 
workhorses like the SW4048 and older Xantrex 100 kW). Newer inverters with a 
solid track record (like SMA models that have been produced in the tens of 
thousands) seem to be headed for a very long lifetime, but how can you be 
sure when an inverter model (or solar module for that matter) has only 
around for a few years? Even long-time PV module manufacturers like Kyocera, 
Sanyo, BP, etc. have had serious problems. Unfortunately, first-year 
inverter problems (infant mortality) are a real cost factor because of 
manufacturers' enthusiastic rush-to-market and inadequate burn-in 
procedures.


We could all benefit by learning more about maintenance costs. Hopefully, 
Matt Lafferty, Bill Brooks, and others who have seen a lot of systems will 
add to this string.


Joel Davidson

- Original Message - 
From: "Phil Schneider" 

To: "RE-wrenches" 
Sent: Friday, March 06, 2009 6:47 AM
Subject: [RE-wrenches] PV maintenance costs



I am preparing a presentation comparing PV and small wind systems.  I am
interested to know what you all use for a 25-year O&M cost of a PV system
(25 kW max).  Thanks!

P.

Phil Schneider
Creative Energies


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Re: [RE-wrenches] Lightning protection system

[Drake Chamberlin]

I didn't get a reply to the question about connecting the GEC to the 
lightning protection system on the 8 story building.  Although this 
may seem like an intrinsically dangerous idea, a lightning protection 
system is required to be bonded to the building grounding electrode system.


"250.106 Lightning Protection Systems.
The lightning protection system ground terminals shall be bonded to 
the building or structure grounding electrode system."


It would therefore seem that the suplemental ground could connect to 
that system as well, and in fact use the existing conductor.  Any 
input would be welcome.


Thanks,

Drake




At 09:19 PM 3/4/2009, you wrote:

Hello Wrenches,

Can the supplemental grounding electrode conductor be connected to a 
lightning protection system?


We have a case where it would be difficult to run a GEC down a multi 
story building, but have a convenient copper wire, from a lightning 
protection system, that runs to a rod.


Thank you,

Drake Chamberlin
Athens Electric
OH License 44810
CO License 3773
740-448-7328
740-856-9648


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Drake Chamberlin
Athens Electric
OH License 44810
CO License 3773
740-448-7328
740-856-9648  



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[RE-wrenches] PV maintenance costs

[Phil Schneider]

I am preparing a presentation comparing PV and small wind systems.  I am
interested to know what you all use for a 25-year O&M cost of a PV system
(25 kW max).  Thanks!

P.

Phil Schneider
Creative Energies


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