Re: [RE-wrenches] Trace SW Stacking Cable?

[William Miller]

Carl:

I have checked with Xantrex.  I would not make a declaration on the 
Wrenches forum to my esteemed colleagues unless I was quite certain.  Find 
the "SWI Stacking Cable wiring diagram" on our web site 
at:  http://millersolar.com/resources/resources.html under "Manufacturer's 
data".  This diagram came directly from a Xantrex engineer.  I have no 
reason to doubt it's authenticity. This is not the pin out for a "standard" 
DB25 cable.  Not also the link just below it for "Not an SWI cable"  This 
is your "standard" cable.  I fished this out of my attic this evening and 
scanned it still in the package.  Note it is listed as a "straight through" 
cable.  This means pin 1 connects to pin 1, pin 2 to pin 2, etc.  This is 
not the same wiring as depicted in the SWI stacking cable diagram.


I believe you have suggested twice that solar installers grab the nearest 
"standard" DB25 cable and give it a try.  I feel compelled to correct the 
record publicly.  These are not the same cables and unspecified damage 
could occur.  I know I once shorted out a sync cable for Heart Interface 
inverters and blew two of them up catastrophically two days before 
Christmas.  It was a very unpleasant surprise for the client (who had 
guests coming) and for my self.  These cables are a direct link to the FET 
control circuits and need to be treated with the utmost caution.


I don't know what would happen to two SW inverters if connected with your 
straight through cable, but I recommend strongly against trying it.  Please 
do not recommend practices unless you are quite certain they will cause no 
harm.



Respectfully,

William Miller

PS:  Printer cables were never DB25-DB25.  They were DB25 to Centronics.

Wm





At 10:01 AM 3/31/2009, you wrote:

William,

  I used an off the shelf cable to use with the SW and PS remote, it was 
a double male ended  25 pin cable. They were formally used as 
printer/computer cables. I believe the stacking cable is the same style. 
You could check with Xantrex.


  Carl Hansen
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Outback FM80 problems

[Darren Emmons]

Larry,

On the RV was a modified sine wave or a SW inverter installed ?

Darren Emmons
Outback Power


- Original Message -
From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org

To: RE-wrenches 
Sent: Fri Mar 27 16:44:59 2009
Subject: [RE-wrenches] Outback FM80 problems

Wrenches,

Last week I had an FM80 that would operate in bulk mode while reducing 
the current to a few amps on a 1200 watt RV system. The customer said 
he had to reset the controller several times through the day. After 
every reset, full amperage was delivered and the controller would 
eventually transition to absorb and float. I replaced the controller 
from stock and put it on the bench. It works just fine with no other 
equipment attached to the battery.

My question is about the auto restart mode. Default is 0. Should Mode 
0 continue to track the Vmp thru the day or must one use mode 1 and 
force restarts? The MX60 had a Sweep Interval that could be programmed 
for every few minutes. Has this been replaced by the Auto Restart Mode?

Larry


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Re: [RE-wrenches] Outback FM80 problems

[Darren Emmons]

Larry,

On the RV was a modified sine wave or a SW inverter installed ?

Darren Emmons
Outback Power


I don't know the answer but I have forwarded this
question to Darren Emmons (the FM80 software engineer) to have him
reply. I am travelling internationally right now and may not have email
access for a few days.

The auto restart mode should not need to changed - I haven't seen a
situation like you describe but I suspect its just an issue of the
setting and probably the small battery size used in this RV application.

Christopher Freitas
OutBack Power




Christopher


- Original Message -
From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org

To: RE-wrenches 
Sent: Fri Mar 27 16:44:59 2009
Subject: [RE-wrenches] Outback FM80 problems

Wrenches,

Last week I had an FM80 that would operate in bulk mode while reducing 
the current to a few amps on a 1200 watt RV system. The customer said 
he had to reset the controller several times through the day. After 
every reset, full amperage was delivered and the controller would 
eventually transition to absorb and float. I replaced the controller 
from stock and put it on the bench. It works just fine with no other 
equipment attached to the battery.

My question is about the auto restart mode. Default is 0. Should Mode 
0 continue to track the Vmp thru the day or must one use mode 1 and 
force restarts? The MX60 had a Sweep Interval that could be programmed 
for every few minutes. Has this been replaced by the Auto Restart Mode?

Larry



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Re: [RE-wrenches] Trace SW Stacking Cable?

[William Miller]

Carl:

They are different cables.  Substitute them at your peril.

William Miller


At 10:01 AM 3/31/2009, you wrote:

William,

  I used an off the shelf cable to use with the SW and PS remote, it was 
a double male ended  25 pin cable. They were formally used as 
printer/computer cables. I believe the stacking cable is the same style. 
You could check with Xantrex.


  Carl Hansen
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Re: [RE-wrenches] PV shingles

[Howie Michaelson]

Thanks all for the feedback on roof BIPV.  This was my understanding,
particularly for pitched roofs, but I haven't kept up with the latest and
greatest, which doesn't seem to be either...

In terms of the Applied Solar tiles, does anyone have a range for typical
installed costs per watt?  It would be helpful to have an idea to compared
to traditional re-roofing costs...

Thanks again for sharing the knowledge base,
Howie
-- 
Howie Michaelson
NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installer™

Sun Catcher, LLC
Renewable Energy Systems Sales and Service
VT Solar & Wind Incentive Program Partner
http://www.SunCatcherVT.com
(cell) 802-272-0004
(home) 802-439-6096





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Re: [RE-wrenches] FW: Battery impedance analyzers

[Larry Crutcher, Starlight Solar]

Thanks Tump and to everyone else that offered input. I have purchased  
a Biddle M-BITE impedance tester. After I have learned to operate this  
multi-buck unit, I'll give a report on how useful I think it is for RE  
system batteries.


I also use a West Mountain Radio CBA II with the 10X amplifier that  
let's us do temperature compensated discharge tests up to 500 watts to  
verify the actual AH capacity of a battery. The impedance test should  
only take seconds per cell so I hope it replaces this discharge method  
of testing.


Kindest Regards,

Larry Crutcher
Starlight Solar
(928) 941-1660
Renewable Energy Products, Service and Installation

Mailing Address (NO SHIPPING):
11881 S Fortuna Rd.
#210
Yuma, AZ 85367

Shipping and retail store (NO MAIL):
2998 Shari Ave
Yuma, AZ 85365

On Mar 30, 2009, at 9:07 AM, Tump wrote:

This comes from Jeff Skelski a guy that has been involved for quite  
a few years w/ batteries, EVs & Jeff also works w/ a hi freq battery  
desulphator group. this is his response & contact info FMI.


jeff...@the-spa.com

I have been using conductance technology for 10+ years and it is a  
great tool. I can test a bank of 24(up to 100) batteries is less  
than ten minutes and get a print-out. It is only a very good guide  
that has the advantage to be used without disconnecting anything.  
The more you use a conductance tester the easier it is to learn the  
short-comings. It has the ability to test a battery, or a bank that  
is not fully charged. It is also great for matching a used battery  
to an aged bank. It I have a question and suspect a particular  
battery, I still will use my carbon-pile or load bank along with  
other indicators. I have been using the Midtronics and am currently  
testing the Auto Meter.


I use both Automotive and SLA(ah)units of different sizes. The  
prices do very but as the old adage goes you get what you pay for,  
my regular unit is an $800 Midtronics plus a $400 printer. I am not  
a part of the wrenches group, nor am I very good with email. I would  
love to join but probably can't as I am only a battery / energy guy.  
Jeff



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Re: [RE-wrenches] RE-wrenches Digest, Vol 2, Issue 364

[Brian White]

Absolutely, the operating environment and temperature is higher than a panel 
mounted 3" off the roof deck. There are some roofing methods intended to help 
minimize the heat buildup, but nothing beats air flow. You can used what is 
called an elevated or counter batten system to help with air flow under the 
tiles. Some counter batten systems can achieve a 2 - 4" air gap under the 
tiles. The back of the roof tile has an open web design that allows air to flow 
across the back tedlar sheet.
 
I think that there is some de-rating incorporated into the PTC value of the 
tile, but was not involved in that portion of the testing. I tend to use a 40° 
addition to the expected ambient air temperatures when calculating string 
Voltages.
 
Brian C. White
Sr. Design Engineer - PV System
 
Eagle Roofing Products
120 North Auburn Street - Suite 212
Grass Valley, CA  95945
Phone: 530-273-2948
Cell: 530-575-5550
e-mail: bri...@eagleroofing.com  
 
 



From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org on behalf of Antony Tersol
Sent: Tue 3/31/2009 1:08 PM
To: re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] RE-wrenches Digest, Vol 2, Issue 364


Since the tiles are the roof, how does increased temperature affect production? 
 What factor do you use to reflect the decrease in production as compared to PV 
modules mounted on racks at 3+" above the roof?  





Message: 1
Date: Tue, 31 Mar 2009 11:11:46 -0700
From: "Brian White" 
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] PV shingles again
To: "RE-wrenches" 
Message-ID:
   
<7b501a61b33b934dab214db9faf493b132a...@biexchange.burlingameindustries.com>

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

We are using the Open Energy / Applied Solar Inc. roof tile, but I 
guess it is not a shingle technically speaking. The product is better suited to 
new construction (90% of our business) than retro-fits when it comes to cost. 
One thing that you have to remember when selling a tile product is that you are 
offsetting some of the cost associated with the roof, i.e. roofing material and 
installation. With the tile product from OE / ASI (which is actually 
manufactured and warranted by Suntech) it does not go on the roof, it is the 
roof, class A rating and everything.

To all getting ready to send me an e-mail about marketing, I am not 
trying to sell the product, but did help design it when I worked for them, so I 
have first hand experience.

Someone made a comment about running conduit from one tile to the next. 
We do not view this requirement the same, and do not install any type of 
conduit above the roof. The requirement for metal conduit states that metal 
conduit has to be used from the point of building "penetration" to the first 
disconnect.

The one advantage that I really enjoy, is that with the tile, it makes 
system sizing much easier as far as string Voltage is concerned. Each tile is a 
6.07 Voc, so you can just add or subtract as many tiles as needed to get to the 
sweet spot of the inverter.

My 2 cents.

(to all, my apologies if that funky attachment comes with my e-mail 
that I was informed of previously, it has something to do with my remote 
access, and is not harmful)

Best Regards,
Brian C. White
Sr. Design Engineer - PV System

Eagle Roofing Products
120 North Auburn Street - Suite 212
Grass Valley, CA  95945
Phone: 530-273-2948
Cell: 530-575-5550
e-mail: bri...@eagleroofing.com 






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[RE-wrenches] Enphase MTBF paper

[Marv Dargatz]

Wrenches,

There has been substantial interest and discussion about MTBF.  As 
promised last week, here is the link.


http://www.enphaseenergy.com/support/downloads.cfm

It is near the bottom of the page and is titled "Reliability of Enphase 
Micro-Inverters".


Comments and questions are welcome.

--
See Ya!

Marv
Enphase Energy
707 763-4784 x7016
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Re: [RE-wrenches] RE-wrenches Digest, Vol 2, Issue 364

[Antony Tersol]

Since the tiles are the roof, how does increased temperature affect
production?  What factor do you use to reflect the decrease in production as
compared to PV modules mounted on racks at 3+" above the roof?



> Message: 1
> Date: Tue, 31 Mar 2009 11:11:46 -0700
> From: "Brian White" 
> Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] PV shingles again
> To: "RE-wrenches" 
> Message-ID:
><
> 7b501a61b33b934dab214db9faf493b132a...@biexchange.burlingameindustries.com
> >
>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> We are using the Open Energy / Applied Solar Inc. roof tile, but I guess it
> is not a shingle technically speaking. The product is better suited to new
> construction (90% of our business) than retro-fits when it comes to cost.
> One thing that you have to remember when selling a tile product is that you
> are offsetting some of the cost associated with the roof, i.e. roofing
> material and installation. With the tile product from OE / ASI (which is
> actually manufactured and warranted by Suntech) it does not go on the roof,
> it is the roof, class A rating and everything.
>
> To all getting ready to send me an e-mail about marketing, I am not trying
> to sell the product, but did help design it when I worked for them, so I
> have first hand experience.
>
> Someone made a comment about running conduit from one tile to the next. We
> do not view this requirement the same, and do not install any type of
> conduit above the roof. The requirement for metal conduit states that metal
> conduit has to be used from the point of building "penetration" to the first
> disconnect.
>
> The one advantage that I really enjoy, is that with the tile, it makes
> system sizing much easier as far as string Voltage is concerned. Each tile
> is a 6.07 Voc, so you can just add or subtract as many tiles as needed to
> get to the sweet spot of the inverter.
>
> My 2 cents.
>
> (to all, my apologies if that funky attachment comes with my e-mail that I
> was informed of previously, it has something to do with my remote access,
> and is not harmful)
>
> Best Regards,
> Brian C. White
> Sr. Design Engineer - PV System
>
> Eagle Roofing Products
> 120 North Auburn Street - Suite 212
> Grass Valley, CA  95945
> Phone: 530-273-2948
> Cell: 530-575-5550
> e-mail: bri...@eagleroofing.com 
>
>
>
>
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Re: [RE-wrenches] PV shingles again

[Brian White]

We are using the Open Energy / Applied Solar Inc. roof tile, but I guess it is 
not a shingle technically speaking. The product is better suited to new 
construction (90% of our business) than retro-fits when it comes to cost. One 
thing that you have to remember when selling a tile product is that you are 
offsetting some of the cost associated with the roof, i.e. roofing material and 
installation. With the tile product from OE / ASI (which is actually 
manufactured and warranted by Suntech) it does not go on the roof, it is the 
roof, class A rating and everything.
 
To all getting ready to send me an e-mail about marketing, I am not trying to 
sell the product, but did help design it when I worked for them, so I have 
first hand experience.
 
Someone made a comment about running conduit from one tile to the next. We do 
not view this requirement the same, and do not install any type of conduit 
above the roof. The requirement for metal conduit states that metal conduit has 
to be used from the point of building "penetration" to the first disconnect.
 
The one advantage that I really enjoy, is that with the tile, it makes system 
sizing much easier as far as string Voltage is concerned. Each tile is a 6.07 
Voc, so you can just add or subtract as many tiles as needed to get to the 
sweet spot of the inverter.
 
My 2 cents.
 
(to all, my apologies if that funky attachment comes with my e-mail that I was 
informed of previously, it has something to do with my remote access, and is 
not harmful)
 
Best Regards,
Brian C. White
Sr. Design Engineer - PV System
 
Eagle Roofing Products
120 North Auburn Street - Suite 212
Grass Valley, CA  95945
Phone: 530-273-2948
Cell: 530-575-5550
e-mail: bri...@eagleroofing.com  
 
 



From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org on behalf of Joel Davidson
Sent: Tue 3/31/2009 10:14 AM
To: RE-wrenches
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] PV shingles again


1996-97 we had the North American exclusive for Uni-Solar BIPV. In addition to 
doing a few standing-seam roofing projects before "peel-and-stick", we solar 
Uni-Solar shingles to only 2 installing contractors. They were enthusiastic to 
do the shingles, but they never placed a second order. Drilling holes for each 
shingle and installing Panduit in the attic on your back was a drag. The 
customers liked solar and the shingles but did not like the added cost. We 
tried to sell Atlantis shingles to some prospects, but they did not like the 
added cost. I'm sure we would all like to hear some solar shingle success 
stories but none seem forthcoming.
 
Joel Davidson

--- On Tue, 3/31/09, Jeff Irish  wrote:


From: Jeff Irish 
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] PV shingles again
To: re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org
Date: Tuesday, March 31, 2009, 7:45 AM


Ditto... we've quoted Atlantis Sunslates at least a dozen times but the
extreme price premium and need to do the entire roof in an odd-sized
Swiss-made roof tile always kills the project.  I've also been told many
of the PV shingles being used in the warmer southern states are not
applicable to freeze/thaw climates.  Would love to see a reasonably
priced product in a normal form factor for the north though, as I'm sure
there's a market.

Jeff Irish
Hudson Valley Clean Energy

-Original Message-
From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org
[mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of
Wind-sun.com
Sent: Tuesday, March 31, 2009 8:50 AM
To: RE-wrenches
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] PV shingles again

Not so fabulous...

A pain to install, expensive.

We have never gotten past the quoting stage on them. Once sticker shock
hits 
they either back out or go with conventional panels.


..
Northern Arizona Wind & Sun - Electricity From The Sun Since 1979
Solar Discussion Forum: http://www.wind-sun.com/ForumVB/

..

- Original Message - 
From: "Howie Michaelson" 
To: "RE-wrenches" 
Sent: Tuesday, March 31, 2009 5:06 AM
Subject: [RE-wrenches] PV shingles again


Hi All,

I take it that since their were no bites on my earlier query about the
use
of PV shingles, that either no one uses them or you want to keep this
fabulous technology a secret...

Thanks,
Howie
-- 
Howie Michaelson
NABCEP Certified Solar PV InstallerT

Sun Catcher, LLC
 

Re: [RE-wrenches] PV shingles again

[Joel Davidson]

1996-97 we had the North American exclusive for Uni-Solar BIPV. In addition 
to doing a few standing-seam roofing projects before "peel-and-stick", we solar 
Uni-Solar shingles to only 2 installing contractors. They were enthusiastic to 
do the shingles, but they never placed a second order. Drilling holes for each 
shingle and installing Panduit in the attic on your back was a drag. The 
customers liked solar and the shingles but did not like the added cost. We 
tried to sell Atlantis shingles to some prospects, but they did not like the 
added cost. I'm sure we would all like to hear some solar shingle success 
stories but none seem forthcoming.
 
Joel Davidson

--- On Tue, 3/31/09, Jeff Irish  wrote:

From: Jeff Irish 
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] PV shingles again
To: re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org
Date: Tuesday, March 31, 2009, 7:45 AM

Ditto... we've quoted Atlantis Sunslates at least a dozen times but the
extreme price premium and need to do the entire roof in an odd-sized
Swiss-made roof tile always kills the project.  I've also been told many
of the PV shingles being used in the warmer southern states are not
applicable to freeze/thaw climates.  Would love to see a reasonably
priced product in a normal form factor for the north though, as I'm sure
there's a market.

Jeff Irish
Hudson Valley Clean Energy

-Original Message-
From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org
[mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of
Wind-sun.com
Sent: Tuesday, March 31, 2009 8:50 AM
To: RE-wrenches
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] PV shingles again

Not so fabulous...

A pain to install, expensive.

We have never gotten past the quoting stage on them. Once sticker shock
hits 
they either back out or go with conventional panels.


..
Northern Arizona Wind & Sun - Electricity From The Sun Since 1979
Solar Discussion Forum: http://www.wind-sun.com/ForumVB/

..

- Original Message - 
From: "Howie Michaelson" 
To: "RE-wrenches" 
Sent: Tuesday, March 31, 2009 5:06 AM
Subject: [RE-wrenches] PV shingles again


Hi All,

I take it that since their were no bites on my earlier query about the
use
of PV shingles, that either no one uses them or you want to keep this
fabulous technology a secret...

Thanks,
Howie
-- 
Howie Michaelson
NABCEP Certified Solar PV InstallerT

Sun Catcher, LLC
Renewable Energy Systems Sales and Service
VT Solar & Wind Incentive Program Partner
http://www.SunCatcherVT.com
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Mixing and Matching PV modules--Error Corrected

[Peter Parrish]

[Bill: I think our disagreement a while ago had to do with the dependence of
Voc and Vmp with insolation. I said there was one and you said there wasn't.
The way I resolved it in my mind is that there is a small change in Voc with
insolation as well in Vmp, but to zeroth order one could ignore the change
for most practical calculations.]

I should have mentioned this, but I don't have the luxury of putting
together a string of type A and string of type B. I have 8 of type A while I
have only 6 of type B. I wish I did have 8+8 but I only have 8+6 and I
wanted to use them all (I am guilty of optimizing). It seemed a shame to go
the 6+6 route, and I'd guess I'd have to do some research on low voltage,
grid tied inverters (I think even a Fronius needs 8 module strings).

So, if I accept the lower operating current, limited by the type B modules,
in a split string...will this stress out the type B modules in the string?

- Peter

Peter T. Parrish, Ph.D., President
California Solar Engineering, Inc.
820 Cynthia Ave., Los Angeles, CA 90065
Ph 323-258-8883, Mobile 323-839-6108, Fax 323-258-8885
CA Lic. 854779, NABCEP Cert. 031806-26
peter.parr...@calsolareng.com 


-Original Message-
From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org
[mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of Bill Brooks
Sent: Monday, March 30, 2009 5:57 PM
To: 'RE-wrenches'
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Mixing and Matching PV modules--Error Corrected

Peter,

Although last time we discussed, you didn't seem to agree with me, I guess
I'll try responding to this question.

The best situation is to keep the two strings of modules in their own
strings. 7 of the older in series, paralleled with the 7 of the newer in
series. The operating voltages, and open circuit voltages are for all
practical purposes--identical. It appears that the only difference is the
size of the cell--producing a higher current as expected--with little or no
change in voltage. Operating voltage is the key--as in our last discussion.


Mixing the strings will result in lower output overall. Perhaps trying it
both ways would prove it to you. An I-V curve tester will clearly show the
benefit of not mixing the modules within the string. As I teach my classes,
you have to think like a "PV". The I-V curve is limited by the lower current
modules in both strings if you wire as you suggest. If you wire the modules
with the like modules, each string will produce their maximum current.

Draw out the I-V curves and it may make more sense. 

Bill.


-Original Message-
From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org
[mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of Peter
Parrish
Sent: Monday, March 30, 2009 3:50 PM
To: 'Peter Parrish'; 'RE-wrenches'
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Mixing and Matching PV modules--Error Corrected

I think I understand all the dictums about single-strings of PV modules: all
the same modules, all the same azimuth and tilt, but I have a "special
situation".

We are starting to accumulate a number of "second hand" PV modules. Some
have frames slightly damaged by the shipper; some have come from warranty
replacements; and some are odd lots that we haven't been able to sell.

What I want to do is to set up a demo system composed of two different types
of modules. This is my initial design:

Total of fourteen modules. Two strings of seven modules each. Each string
consisting of four modules of one type (type A) and three modules of a
second type (type B).

Both module types have 50 cells and the type A module has 155mm-sq cells and
the type B module has 150mm-sq cells. So you would think that the
performance specs would match pretty well. However, since the type B modules
are an earlier vintage, they probably don't have the latest and greatest
surface treatment, etc., so the current specs are lower than one might
expect.

Specs on type A: Voc = 30.8V, Vmp = 24.5V, Isc = 8.70A, Imp = 8.16A. Specs
on type B: Voc = 30.6V, Vmp = 24.6V, Isc = 7.38A, Imp = 6.93A. 

So here's my question: would putting together the strings of four type A and
three type B cause any problems? I know the string current would be limited
by the type B modules, but above and beyond that, what would be the
operating point of the type A modules and what would be the stress if any on
the type B modules? I'd like this demo system to last a while and I
certainly don't want to see scorch marks on the type B modules after a few
months of use. 

Any thoughts?

- Peter

Peter T. Parrish, President
California Solar Engineering, Inc.
820 Cynthia Ave., Los Angeles, CA 90065
Ph 323-258-8883, Mobile 323-839-6108, Fax 323-258-8885
CA Lic. 854779, NABCEP Cert. 031806-26
peter.parr...@calsolareng.com 



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Re: [RE-wrenches] Trace SW Stacking Cable?

[Carl Hansen]

William,

  I used an off the shelf cable to use with the SW and PS remote, it was a 
double male ended  25 pin cable. They were formally used as printer/computer 
cables. I believe the stacking cable is the same style. You could check with 
Xantrex.

  Carl Hansen___
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Trace SW Stacking Cable?

[Jason Lerner]

Hi Jeff,

I have a Db-25 male to male 4' long connector that I think is what you  
are looking for. I have always thought it was a stacking connector but  
it's been in the van for a while If someone had a pinout I could  
test it to make sure,  and send out if it is the right one.


Best,
jason
--

Jason Lerner
Waldron Power and LIght Co.
(888) wapalco  office/fax
(360) 588-6194


On Mar 30, 2009, at 3:05 PM, Jeff Clearwater, Village Power Design  
wrote:



Hi All,

I need to track down a '98 vintage Trace SW stacking cable.  Anyone  
have or know where I might find one?


Thanks,

Jeff C.
--
~
Jeff Clearwater
Senior Design Engineer
NABCEP (tm) Certified Solar PV Installer
http://www.nabcep.org/
Village Power Design/NorthEast Solar Design
Turnkey Solar Design & Installation for the Commercial Sector
http://www.villagepower.com
goso...@villagepower.com

Voice: 413-259-3750
Fax: 413-825-0703
65 Schoolhouse Rd
Amherst, MA 01002
~
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Trace SW Stacking Cable?

[Phil Undercuffler]

Last time I checked, Xantrex had no more SWI cables available.  However,
I do have the pinout for the SWI that they were willing to share, if you
care to homebrew your own.  DB25 male to male connectors and ribbon
cable -- should be able to find those pretty easily.

If interested, contact me OFF-List.
 
Phil Undercuffler
Director, Battery-based and Off-grid
Distribution Sales Group
Conergy 
Our World Is Full of Energy
1730 Camino Carlos Rey Suite 103
Santa Fe, NM  87507
p.undercuff...@conergy.us
Direct | 505.216.3841
Toll Free | 888.396.6611 x4841
Fax | 505.473.3830
www.conergy.us
 

-Original Message-
From: bob ellison
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Trace SW Stacking Cable?

Would it be possible to make one if we had a sample to know the wire
order? 

Bob

-Original Message-

I need to track down a '98 vintage Trace SW stacking cable.  Anyone 
have or know where I might find one?

Thanks,

Jeff C.
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Trace SW Stacking Cable?

[William Miller]

Carl:

This cable is *not* a standard computer cable.  I don't know, but I suspect 
that severe inverter damage could occur with use of the wrong cable.


William Miller

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Re: [RE-wrenches] PV shingles again

[Drake Chamberlin]

Unisolar shingles required using Wiremold wiring gutters on the 
underside of the roof with flex metal conduit on every set of wires, 
since DC must be in metal conduit in a building.  The installation 
was a giant project.  The UL listing disappeared shortly after the project.


At 09:45 AM 3/31/2009, you wrote:

Ditto... we've quoted Atlantis Sunslates at least a dozen times but the
extreme price premium and need to do the entire roof in an odd-sized
Swiss-made roof tile always kills the project.  I've also been told many
of the PV shingles being used in the warmer southern states are not
applicable to freeze/thaw climates.  Would love to see a reasonably
priced product in a normal form factor for the north though, as I'm sure
there's a market.

Jeff Irish
Hudson Valley Clean Energy

-Original Message-
From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org
[mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of
Wind-sun.com
Sent: Tuesday, March 31, 2009 8:50 AM
To: RE-wrenches
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] PV shingles again

Not so fabulous...

A pain to install, expensive.

We have never gotten past the quoting stage on them. Once sticker shock
hits
they either back out or go with conventional panels.


..
Northern Arizona Wind & Sun - Electricity From The Sun Since 1979
Solar Discussion Forum: http://www.wind-sun.com/ForumVB/

..

- Original Message -
From: "Howie Michaelson" 
To: "RE-wrenches" 
Sent: Tuesday, March 31, 2009 5:06 AM
Subject: [RE-wrenches] PV shingles again


Hi All,

I take it that since their were no bites on my earlier query about the
use
of PV shingles, that either no one uses them or you want to keep this
fabulous technology a secret...

Thanks,
Howie
--
Howie Michaelson
NABCEP Certified Solar PV InstallerT

Sun Catcher, LLC
Renewable Energy Systems Sales and Service
VT Solar & Wind Incentive Program Partner
http://www.SunCatcherVT.com
(cell) 802-272-0004
(home) 802-439-6096





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Drake Chamberlin
Athens Electric
OH License 44810
CO License 3773
740-448-7328
740-856-9648  



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Re: [RE-wrenches] XW 4024

[Ezra Auerbach]

My XW 6048 has been only partly satisfactory. I "upgraded" from a SW+  
2524 and have found good and bad things about the change.

Good Most everything, very nice interface,

Bad doesn't charge well with my small Honda is3000 Which I use  
seasonally. Also the no load draw is a lot more than my old inverter.


I'd recommend it only if there's enough power to support a hefty no  
load draw and if the generator was no less than 6 kW.


Regards

Ezra Auerbach


On 19-Mar-09, at 9:04 PM, Andrew Truitt  wrote:



Drake - The XW4024 is almost identical to the XW6048 but can produce  
4.0kW of AC power and uses a 24V battery bank.  All the auxiliary  
components (PDP, SCP, charge controller, etc...) are the same for  
both inverters.


We've had very good experiences with the XW system.  With about 15  
installed so far (4024s and 6048s) the only issue we've had was 1  
control board that went bad (easily fixed after Xantrex sent the  
warranty replacement).



Andrew Truitt
Standard Solar




2009/3/16 Drake Chamberlin 
Hello Wrenches,

What has been your experience with the XW 4024?  Is it a scaled down  
version of the 48 volt models?  Is it reliable?


Thanks in advance.


Drake Chamberlin
Athens Electric
OH License 44810
CO License 3773
740-448-7328
740-856-9648

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--
"Don't get me wrong: I love nuclear energy! It's just that I prefer  
fusion to fission. And it just so happens that there's an enormous  
fusion reactor safely banked a few million miles from us. It  
delivers more than we could ever use in just about 8 minutes. And  
it's wireless!"


~William McDonough

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Re: [RE-wrenches] PV shingles again

[Jeff Irish]

Ditto... we've quoted Atlantis Sunslates at least a dozen times but the
extreme price premium and need to do the entire roof in an odd-sized
Swiss-made roof tile always kills the project.  I've also been told many
of the PV shingles being used in the warmer southern states are not
applicable to freeze/thaw climates.  Would love to see a reasonably
priced product in a normal form factor for the north though, as I'm sure
there's a market.

Jeff Irish
Hudson Valley Clean Energy

-Original Message-
From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org
[mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of
Wind-sun.com
Sent: Tuesday, March 31, 2009 8:50 AM
To: RE-wrenches
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] PV shingles again

Not so fabulous...

A pain to install, expensive.

We have never gotten past the quoting stage on them. Once sticker shock
hits 
they either back out or go with conventional panels.


..
Northern Arizona Wind & Sun - Electricity From The Sun Since 1979
Solar Discussion Forum: http://www.wind-sun.com/ForumVB/

..

- Original Message - 
From: "Howie Michaelson" 
To: "RE-wrenches" 
Sent: Tuesday, March 31, 2009 5:06 AM
Subject: [RE-wrenches] PV shingles again


Hi All,

I take it that since their were no bites on my earlier query about the
use
of PV shingles, that either no one uses them or you want to keep this
fabulous technology a secret...

Thanks,
Howie
-- 
Howie Michaelson
NABCEP Certified Solar PV InstallerT

Sun Catcher, LLC
Renewable Energy Systems Sales and Service
VT Solar & Wind Incentive Program Partner
http://www.SunCatcherVT.com
(cell) 802-272-0004
(home) 802-439-6096





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Re: [RE-wrenches] Trace SW Stacking Cable?

[Carl Hansen]

If this cable is the 21pin, double ended male cable, they are still 
available at some small mom & pop computer supply stores. It may take some 
hunting though.


Carl Hansen 


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Re: [RE-wrenches] Mixing and Matching PV modules--Error Corrected

[Bill Brooks]

Peter,

Although last time we discussed, you didn't seem to agree with me, I guess
I'll try responding to this question.

The best situation is to keep the two strings of modules in their own
strings. 7 of the older in series, paralleled with the 7 of the newer in
series. The operating voltages, and open circuit voltages are for all
practical purposes--identical. It appears that the only difference is the
size of the cell--producing a higher current as expected--with little or no
change in voltage. Operating voltage is the key--as in our last discussion.


Mixing the strings will result in lower output overall. Perhaps trying it
both ways would prove it to you. An I-V curve tester will clearly show the
benefit of not mixing the modules within the string. As I teach my classes,
you have to think like a "PV". The I-V curve is limited by the lower current
modules in both strings if you wire as you suggest. If you wire the modules
with the like modules, each string will produce their maximum current.

Draw out the I-V curves and it may make more sense. 

Bill.


-Original Message-
From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org
[mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of Peter
Parrish
Sent: Monday, March 30, 2009 3:50 PM
To: 'Peter Parrish'; 'RE-wrenches'
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Mixing and Matching PV modules--Error Corrected

I think I understand all the dictums about single-strings of PV modules: all
the same modules, all the same azimuth and tilt, but I have a "special
situation".

We are starting to accumulate a number of "second hand" PV modules. Some
have frames slightly damaged by the shipper; some have come from warranty
replacements; and some are odd lots that we haven't been able to sell.

What I want to do is to set up a demo system composed of two different types
of modules. This is my initial design:

Total of fourteen modules. Two strings of seven modules each. Each string
consisting of four modules of one type (type A) and three modules of a
second type (type B).

Both module types have 50 cells and the type A module has 155mm-sq cells and
the type B module has 150mm-sq cells. So you would think that the
performance specs would match pretty well. However, since the type B modules
are an earlier vintage, they probably don't have the latest and greatest
surface treatment, etc., so the current specs are lower than one might
expect.

Specs on type A: Voc = 30.8V, Vmp = 24.5V, Isc = 8.70A, Imp = 8.16A. Specs
on type B: Voc = 30.6V, Vmp = 24.6V, Isc = 7.38A, Imp = 6.93A. 

So here's my question: would putting together the strings of four type A and
three type B cause any problems? I know the string current would be limited
by the type B modules, but above and beyond that, what would be the
operating point of the type A modules and what would be the stress if any on
the type B modules? I'd like this demo system to last a while and I
certainly don't want to see scorch marks on the type B modules after a few
months of use. 

Any thoughts?

- Peter

Peter T. Parrish, President
California Solar Engineering, Inc.
820 Cynthia Ave., Los Angeles, CA 90065
Ph 323-258-8883, Mobile 323-839-6108, Fax 323-258-8885
CA Lic. 854779, NABCEP Cert. 031806-26
peter.parr...@calsolareng.com 



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Re: [RE-wrenches] PV shingles again

[David Palumbo]

Howie,

I did not comment on the first e-mail because you asked for those with
experience with pv shingles to comment. I don't have the experience, but
I've been around long enough to know of several west coast installers that
tried the technology. The word, back several years ago, was the pv shingles
were not ready for prime time. I remember disparaging remarks about a
shingle that was 17w. So, 17w and two wires. Lots of connections to make for
an array, also these connections are obviously in a difficult spot to
service if need be.

I would think that this problem has not been solved since we do not have
manufacturers pushing pv shingles on us.

David Palumbo, President
Independent Power LLC
462 Solar Way Drive
Hyde Park, VT 05655
NABCEP Certified PV Installer
www.independentpowerllc.com 
802-888-7194



-Original Message-
From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org
[mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org]on Behalf Of Howie
Michaelson
Sent: Tuesday, March 31, 2009 8:07 AM
To: RE-wrenches
Subject: [RE-wrenches] PV shingles again


Hi All,

I take it that since their were no bites on my earlier query about the use
of PV shingles, that either no one uses them or you want to keep this
fabulous technology a secret...

Thanks,
Howie
--
Howie Michaelson
NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installer™

Sun Catcher, LLC
Renewable Energy Systems Sales and Service
VT Solar & Wind Incentive Program Partner
http://www.SunCatcherVT.com
(cell) 802-272-0004
(home) 802-439-6096





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Re: [RE-wrenches] PV shingles again

[Wind-sun.com]

Not so fabulous...

A pain to install, expensive.

We have never gotten past the quoting stage on them. Once sticker shock hits 
they either back out or go with conventional panels.


..
Northern Arizona Wind & Sun - Electricity From The Sun Since 1979
Solar Discussion Forum: http://www.wind-sun.com/ForumVB/
..

- Original Message - 
From: "Howie Michaelson" 

To: "RE-wrenches" 
Sent: Tuesday, March 31, 2009 5:06 AM
Subject: [RE-wrenches] PV shingles again


Hi All,

I take it that since their were no bites on my earlier query about the use
of PV shingles, that either no one uses them or you want to keep this
fabulous technology a secret...

Thanks,
Howie
--
Howie Michaelson
NABCEP Certified Solar PV InstallerT

Sun Catcher, LLC
Renewable Energy Systems Sales and Service
VT Solar & Wind Incentive Program Partner
http://www.SunCatcherVT.com
(cell) 802-272-0004
(home) 802-439-6096





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Re: [RE-wrenches] Mixing and Matching PV modules--Error Corrected

[Darryl Thayer]

hi peter
I would put 7 type A in a series and 6 type B with one type A This way the 
extra performance of the type A would not be lost except for the one module.
Darryl.  


--- On Mon, 3/30/09, Peter Parrish  wrote:

> From: Peter Parrish 
> Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Mixing and Matching PV modules--Error Corrected
> To: "'Peter Parrish'" , "'RE-wrenches'" 
> 
> Date: Monday, March 30, 2009, 5:50 PM
> I think I understand all the dictums about single-strings of
> PV modules: all
> the same modules, all the same azimuth and tilt, but I have
> a "special
> situation".
> 
> We are starting to accumulate a number of "second
> hand" PV modules. Some
> have frames slightly damaged by the shipper; some have come
> from warranty
> replacements; and some are odd lots that we haven't
> been able to sell.
> 
> What I want to do is to set up a demo system composed of
> two different types
> of modules. This is my initial design:
> 
> Total of fourteen modules. Two strings of seven modules
> each. Each string
> consisting of four modules of one type (type A) and three
> modules of a
> second type (type B).
> 
> Both module types have 50 cells and the type A module has
> 155mm-sq cells and
> the type B module has 150mm-sq cells. So you would think
> that the
> performance specs would match pretty well. However, since
> the type B modules
> are an earlier vintage, they probably don't have the
> latest and greatest
> surface treatment, etc., so the current specs are lower
> than one might
> expect.
> 
> Specs on type A: Voc = 30.8V, Vmp = 24.5V, Isc = 8.70A, Imp
> = 8.16A. Specs
> on type B: Voc = 30.6V, Vmp = 24.6V, Isc = 7.38A, Imp =
> 6.93A. 
> 
> So here's my question: would putting together the
> strings of four type A and
> three type B cause any problems? I know the string current
> would be limited
> by the type B modules, but above and beyond that, what
> would be the
> operating point of the type A modules and what would be the
> stress if any on
> the type B modules? I'd like this demo system to last a
> while and I
> certainly don't want to see scorch marks on the type B
> modules after a few
> months of use. 
> 
> Any thoughts?
> 
> - Peter
> 
> Peter T. Parrish, President
> California Solar Engineering, Inc.
> 820 Cynthia Ave., Los Angeles, CA 90065
> Ph 323-258-8883, Mobile 323-839-6108, Fax 323-258-8885
> CA Lic. 854779, NABCEP Cert. 031806-26
> peter.parr...@calsolareng.com 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
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[RE-wrenches] PV shingles again

[Howie Michaelson]

Hi All,

I take it that since their were no bites on my earlier query about the use
of PV shingles, that either no one uses them or you want to keep this
fabulous technology a secret...

Thanks,
Howie
-- 
Howie Michaelson
NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installer™

Sun Catcher, LLC
Renewable Energy Systems Sales and Service
VT Solar & Wind Incentive Program Partner
http://www.SunCatcherVT.com
(cell) 802-272-0004
(home) 802-439-6096





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Re: [RE-wrenches] Trace SW Stacking Cable?

[bob ellison]

Would it be possible to make one if we had a sample to know the wire order? 

Bob

-Original Message-
From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org
[mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of Jeff
Clearwater, Village Power Design
Sent: Monday, March 30, 2009 6:05 PM
To: RE-wrenches
Subject: [RE-wrenches] Trace SW Stacking Cable?

Hi All,

I need to track down a '98 vintage Trace SW stacking cable.  Anyone 
have or know where I might find one?

Thanks,

Jeff C.
-- 
~
Jeff Clearwater
Senior Design Engineer
NABCEP (tm) Certified Solar PV Installer
http://www.nabcep.org/
Village Power Design/NorthEast Solar Design
Turnkey Solar Design & Installation for the Commercial Sector
http://www.villagepower.com
goso...@villagepower.com

Voice: 413-259-3750
Fax: 413-825-0703
65 Schoolhouse Rd
Amherst, MA 01002
~
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