Re: [RE-wrenches] Cali Breeze Wind Turbines?

[Michael Welch]

Hi Jeff. I have turned off your subscription until you let me know you are 
back. Please be sure to not send vacation messages to the list next time you 
leave. Thanks.

je...@villagepower.com wrote at 01:00 PM 6/19/2009:
 
>I'm away on vacation until June 29th.  I will return your email then.
>
>Best,  Jeff

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Re: [RE-wrenches] Solar Magic

[Joel Davidson]

Bob-O,
Good points. A good designer would still avoid putting PV in the shade in the 
first place. A retrofit has to factor in the material and labor costs vs. the 
value of the system performance improvement. Has anyone done a Solar Magic 
installation or some other type of retrofit to remediate shading?
Joel Davidson
  - Original Message - 
  From: Bob-O Schultze 
  To: RE-wrenches 
  Sent: Saturday, June 20, 2009 10:51 AM
  Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Solar Magic


  Don't these things add like a buck a watt to the cost of the system? If 
that's so, they would have to be magic indeed to yield 10%-15% more power/year 
depending on system costs.
  Bob-O


  On Jun 20, 2009, at 10:29 AM, i...@aol.com wrote:


  In a message dated 6/19/2009 9:39:22 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, 
joel.david...@sbcglobal.net writes:
I have some clients with shading problems that may be potential Solar Magic 
retrofits. 


  Ok, so I've read the pitch from the Manu, however not sure even if the 
published specs for shade improvement are very convincing to me.. 
  Would one of my esteemed colleagues explain what it does and how it works.

  Thanks, Don Loweburg 


--


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Re: [RE-wrenches] Solar Magic

[Joel Davidson]

I asked the National Semiconductor people about temperature affecting 
SolarMagic product life because its operating temperature is -40F (-40C) to 
158F(70C) and solar modules get hotter than 70C. I was told that 70C is ok 
because their device is not  in direct contact with the module.
Joel Davidson
  - Original Message - 
  From: Conrad Geyser 
  To: 'RE-wrenches' 
  Sent: Saturday, June 20, 2009 3:55 AM
  Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Solar Magic


  I was having a conversation with Michael Rogol from Photon yesterday and his 
only concern was the life expectancy.  They are testing them.

  Other than that they are working as far as overcoming intermittent shading.

  Conrad Geyser

  Cotuit Solar

   


--

  From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org 
[mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of Joel Davidson
  Sent: Friday, June 19, 2009 7:45 PM
  To: RE-wrenches
  Subject: [RE-wrenches] Solar Magic

   

  (I'll change the subject.) I have some clients with shading problems that may 
be potential Solar Magic retrofits. I've been to National Semiconductor's 
presentation and was impressed with their demonstration and professionalism. 
Does anyone have Solar Magic experience to share with us?

  Joel Davidson

- Original Message - 

From: Wilco Vercoelen 

To: 'RE-wrenches' 

Sent: Friday, June 19, 2009 3:55 PM

Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Enphase Recall?

 

An alternative could be using the Solar Magic with a string inverter 
reducing shading efficiency losses. Provide easy monitoring and you still would 
be able to keep your client happy. ;)

Just a thought.

Kind regards,
Wilco Vercoelen
President


Dommelvalley Green Power Inc.
Solar Energy Solutions
Utopia, Ontario, Canada
http://www.dommelvalley.ca
Tel. 705-423-9699
Fax. 705-423-9880
Toll Free 1-877-889-7657

This e-mail message is intended only for the person or entity to which it 
is addressed and is confidential, subject to copyright and may be legally 
privileged. Any unauthorized review, use or disclosure is prohibited.  If you 
received this in error, please contact the sender and delete all copies of the 
e-mail together with any attachments.

 




From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org 
[mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of Mark Frye
Sent: June-19-09 18:38
To: 'RE-wrenches'
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Enphase Recall?

 

Here is my experience with bringing in the Enphase:

 

Week 0: First contact with a customer that can benefit from micro inverter 
application (site visit); Check with vendor - out of stock with 2 week lead time

Week 1: Develop design specificiation and bid incorporating Enphase micro 
inverter; bid presentation

Week 2: Customer selects my bid out of a pool of three competevive bids, 
other two bids string inverters, wants to sign contract and start work 
immediately.

Week 2 plus One Day: Before contract signing check in with vendor; Enphase 
still completely out of stock and lead time is now 12 WEEKS..shock, heart 
attack, knowing I am going to lose the job (could have bid a string inverter), 
how can I face my customer now?.

 

I ended up getting a line on the inverters I needed with a 6 week 
leadtime, taking that to my customer and winning the job.  We are both now 
waiting to see if the alternate vendor will deliver the product as promised.

 

The main thing that went thorough my mind was, "I thought we got over this 
kind of thing with the module supply shortage, but it's deja vu all over again."

 

Enphase may be diligent in managing quality during production ramp-up. 
However, going from 2 weeks to 12 weeks leadtime in 2 weeks is no way to manage 
customer expectation.

 

In my mind it's a black eye for Enphase. I am hoping that they will win a 
feather back into their cap with an on time delivery of a stellar product.


Mark Frye 
Berkeley Solar Electric Systems 
303 Redbud Way 
Nevada City,  CA 95959 
(530) 401-8024 
www.berkeleysolar.com  

 

 




From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org 
[mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of Bill Brooks
Sent: Friday, June 19, 2009 2:58 PM
To: 'RE-wrenches'
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Enphase Recall?

Peter and all,

 

The Enphase product is the only one of its kind on the market currently 
(there will be more). Their sales are far beyond where they thought they were 
going to be-good and bad news. Great for them to be confirmed in their market 
prediction. Bad for the people who are anxious to get the product.

Re: [RE-wrenches] Solar Magic

[David G Katz]

Don,
SolarMagic is an MPPT DC to DC converter that you put on every modules 
in a string where some of the modules are going to be shaded. You would 
only do this if there are other strings that had no shading. When a 
module (or two) in the string is (are) shaded, the SolarMagic devices on 
the modules that are _*not*_ shaded raise their output voltage and lower 
their current, keeping them individually at maximum power point so that 
this string has the same voltage as the non-shaded strings in the 
system, and is therefor matched the MPPT voltage of the string inverter. 
Typically, if you shade a module in a string, its voltage drops 
somewhere between 1/2 of its peak power voltage and all of its peak 
power voltage.  This can lower the string 20 to 40 volts.  If there are 
other non-shaded strings attached to the input of the same string 
inverter, the shaded string will try to rise in voltage to equal the 
non-shaded strings, causing the modules in the shaded string to each 
rise in voltage several volts, taking them off their maximum power 
point.  Because of the nature of the I-V curve of the modules, this may 
lower their output by 25% to 50%, lowering the power of that string bu 
more than 25%-50%.
SolarMagic would cause the string to only drop by the wattage of the 
shaded module, possible only 5% in a 20 module string.
I see the use of these devices making sense as a retrofit in a system 
that was installed by someone who did not understand how much loss there 
is in a shaded string that is in parallel with non-shaded strings.

Cheers,
David

David Katz

President

AEE Solar

1155 Redway Drive

P.O. Box 339

Redway, CA  95560

Tel (707) 825-1200

Fax (707) 825-1202

da...@aeesolar.com 

www.aeesolar.com 


 
Ok, so I've read the pitch from the Manu, however not sure even if the 
published specs for shade improvement are very convincing to me..

Would one of my esteemed colleagues explain what it does and how it works.
 
Thanks, Don Loweburg 




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[RE-wrenches] fronius IG Plus practical engineering WAA???

[Nick Vida]

guys,

thanks for your input. I didnt know about the add on. glad to see it is out 
there.

thanks again

Nick Vida



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Re: [RE-wrenches] fronius IG Plus practical engineering WAA???

[Bob-O Schultze]

Nick,
Fronius sells a heavy copper buss bar which will link all the six  
inputs together. They look sort of like the Outback PSPV bus bars  
except copper and MUCH heavier. If you need four or more inputs you'll  
need to get two of them. Three or less, cut one in half.  For some  
reason known only to Fronius in Austria, if Fronius US orders two of  
those buss bars in one packet, it costs more than two ordered  
separately. Drives Gord nuts, but that's the way it is. I just  
installed a 11.4Plus recently with the buss bars and it worked out  
pretty well. I never looked to see if there were individual fuses but  
it worked right out of the box, so?
Combining on the roof with HV touchsafe fuses and holders is still the  
way to go, IMO, however if you are going to use a HU361 DC Disconnect  
at the inverter with four strings, you will likely need to run down  
two sets of home runs so as not to overload the poles which need to be  
derated from 30A by the usual 20%. Or, go to a 60A Disco which is  
probably more expensive than a second set of wires.

Hope this helps.
Bob-O
On Jun 20, 2009, at 12:23 PM, Nick Vida wrote:

hey Wrenches.

I opened my soon to be installed fronius IG Plus to see what was going  
on in there, and found myself a bit disappointed. There is a 6 string  
combiner in there which is fine, however there is no bypass for the  
fusing section and the terminals are rated at 20 amps. In a situation  
where you have 6 strings, you cannont combine on the roof and run down  
with a pair of conductors, instead you must run down with your  
strings. This means instead of running 3/4 conduit for 8awg pair and  
ground, I would have to run 1" conduit for 6 pairs of 10 awg and ground.
(thats a lot of flex for a 2x4!!)  So if I need a disconect on the  
roof, I would need 2 disconects, and correct me if im wrong-- but i  
would need 4 disconects in the future because this is a  
transformerless inverter.
I also noticed that they are still using those mediocre white plastic  
terminals for the ac connection that so many people found annoying.
And fyi, there are no fuses in the fusing section, so dont forget to  
order them.


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Re: [RE-wrenches] fronius IG Plus practical engineering WAA???

[Allan Sindelar]

Nick,

This was addressed in the Fronius online newsletter that came out yesterday.

 


 

Two Buss Bars - the ins and outs of connection

Fronius buss bars
Sold individually. Make sure to order two Buss Bars - one for each leg of
the trip.


Fronius IG Plus Inverters have a six-string fused combiner built into every
unit. It may not be practical to use it if the array is far away from the
inverter or if local codes require fused combiners on the roof or in close
proximity to the modules themselves. In either situation it is important to
note that the terminals are only rated to accept 20ADC. 

Whenever you are bringing in a conductor that may have more then 20ADC on
it, you are required to use a Fronius Buss Bar (Part Number 42,0201,2923).
This is a six-tined copper conductor with 2-3/8" holes and a single 1/4"
hole for use with a lug of the installers' choice. 

We are dealing with DC currents here and once those electrons make their run
through the inverter they need a path back to the modules. Again, we cannot
load the terminals with more then 20ADC, so please make sure to get a second
Buss Bar for the return trip. 

If you have any questions about applications that would require a Buss Bar,
please contact Fronius Solar Technical Support at 810-220-4414 or e-mail
pv-us-supp...@fronius.com.

 

 

Allan Sindelar

al...@positiveenergysolar.com

NABCEP Certified Photovoltaic Installer

EE98J Journeyman Electrician

Positive Energy, Inc.

3201 Calle Marie

Santa Fe, New Mexico 87507

505 424-1112

www.positiveenergysolar.com

  _  

From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org
[mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of Nick Vida
Sent: Saturday, June 20, 2009 1:23 PM
To: re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org
Subject: [RE-wrenches] fronius IG Plus practical engineering WAA???

 

hey Wrenches.

I opened my soon to be installed fronius IG Plus to see what was going on in
there, and found myself a bit disappointed. There is a 6 string combiner in
there which is fine, however there is no bypass for the fusing section and
the terminals are rated at 20 amps. In a situation where you have 6 strings,
you cannont combine on the roof and run down with a pair of conductors,
instead you must run down with your strings. This means instead of running
3/4 conduit for 8awg pair and ground, I would have to run 1" conduit for 6
pairs of 10 awg and ground. 
(thats a lot of flex for a 2x4!!)  So if I need a disconect on the roof, I
would need 2 disconects, and correct me if im wrong-- but i would need 4
disconects in the future because this is a transformerless inverter. 
I also noticed that they are still using those mediocre white plastic
terminals for the ac connection that so many people found annoying.
And fyi, there are no fuses in the fusing section, so dont forget to order
them.

 

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[RE-wrenches] fronius IG Plus practical engineering WAA???

[Nick Vida]

hey Wrenches.

I opened my soon to be installed fronius IG Plus to see what was going on in 
there, and found myself a bit disappointed. There is a 6 string combiner in 
there which is fine, however there is no bypass for the fusing section and the 
terminals are rated at 20 amps. In a situation where you have 6 strings, you 
cannont combine on the roof and run down with a pair of conductors, instead you 
must run down with your strings. This means instead of running 3/4 conduit for 
8awg pair and ground, I would have to run 1" conduit for 6 pairs of 10 awg and 
ground. 
(thats a lot of flex for a 2x4!!)  So if I need a disconect on the roof, I 
would need 2 disconects, and correct me if im wrong-- but i would need 4 
disconects in the future because this is a transformerless inverter.
I also noticed that they are still using those mediocre white plastic terminals 
for the ac connection that so many people found annoying.
And fyi, there are no fuses in the fusing section, so dont forget to order them.


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Re: [RE-wrenches] Solar Magic

[Mark Frye]

My guess:
 
Each unit is a DC to DC converter with a controllable 1:10 boost to the
output side; module side has a MPP tracker; inverter side outputs are
parralleled and adjust to a single common voltage. The string inverter sees
a constant DC voltage of 200-300 depending on the module Vmp.
 
Mark Frye 
Berkeley Solar Electric Systems 
303 Redbud Way 
Nevada City,  CA 95959 
(530) 401-8024 
  www.berkeleysolar.com  
 

  _  

From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org
[mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of i...@aol.com
Sent: Saturday, June 20, 2009 10:29 AM
To: re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Solar Magic


In a message dated 6/19/2009 9:39:22 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time,
joel.david...@sbcglobal.net writes:

I have some clients with shading problems that may be potential Solar Magic
retrofits. 

 
 
Ok, so I've read the pitch from the Manu, however not sure even if the
published specs for shade improvement are very convincing to me.. 
Would one of my esteemed colleagues explain what it does and how it works.
 
Thanks, Don Loweburg 
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Solar Magic

[Bob-O Schultze]

Don't these things add like a buck a watt to the cost of the system?  
If that's so, they would have to be magic indeed to yield 10%-15% more  
power/year depending on system costs.

Bob-O

On Jun 20, 2009, at 10:29 AM, i...@aol.com wrote:

In a message dated 6/19/2009 9:39:22 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, joel.david...@sbcglobal.net 
 writes:
I have some clients with shading problems that may be potential Solar  
Magic retrofits.



Ok, so I've read the pitch from the Manu, however not sure even if the  
published specs for shade improvement are very convincing to me..
Would one of my esteemed colleagues explain what it does and how it  
works.


Thanks, Don Loweburg ___
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Solar Magic

[I2P]

 
In a message dated 6/19/2009 9:39:22 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time,  
joel.david...@sbcglobal.net writes:

I have  some clients with shading problems that may be potential Solar 
Magic  retrofits. 


 
 
Ok, so I've read the pitch from the Manu, however not sure even if the  
published specs for shade improvement are very convincing to me.. 
Would one of my esteemed colleagues explain what it does and how  it works.
 
Thanks, Don Loweburg 
**Download the AOL Classifieds Toolbar for local deals at your 
fingertips. 
(http://toolbar.aol.com/aolclassifieds/download.html?ncid=emlcntusdown0004)
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Solar Magic

[Conrad Geyser]

I was having a conversation with Michael Rogol from Photon yesterday and his
only concern was the life expectancy.  They are testing them.

Other than that they are working as far as overcoming intermittent shading.

Conrad Geyser

Cotuit Solar

 

  _  

From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org
[mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of Joel
Davidson
Sent: Friday, June 19, 2009 7:45 PM
To: RE-wrenches
Subject: [RE-wrenches] Solar Magic

 

(I'll change the subject.) I have some clients with shading problems that
may be potential Solar Magic retrofits. I've been to National
Semiconductor's presentation and was impressed with their demonstration and
professionalism. Does anyone have Solar Magic experience to share with us?

Joel Davidson

- Original Message - 

From: Wilco   Vercoelen 

To: 'RE-wrenches'   

Sent: Friday, June 19, 2009 3:55 PM

Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Enphase Recall?

 

An alternative could be using the Solar Magic with a string inverter
reducing shading efficiency losses. Provide easy monitoring and you still
would be able to keep your client happy. ;)

Just a thought.

Kind regards,
Wilco Vercoelen
President

new-logo-email.gif
Dommelvalley Green Power Inc.
Solar Energy Solutions
Utopia, Ontario, Canada
  http://www.dommelvalley.ca
Tel. 705-423-9699
Fax. 705-423-9880
Toll Free 1-877-889-7657

This e-mail message is intended only for the person or entity to which it is
addressed and is confidential, subject to copyright and may be legally
privileged. Any unauthorized review, use or disclosure is prohibited.  If
you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete all copies
of the e-mail together with any attachments.

 


  _  


From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org
[mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of Mark Frye
Sent: June-19-09 18:38
To: 'RE-wrenches'
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Enphase Recall?

 

Here is my experience with bringing in the Enphase:

 

Week 0: First contact with a customer that can benefit from micro inverter
application (site visit); Check with vendor - out of stock with 2 week lead
time

Week 1: Develop design specificiation and bid incorporating Enphase micro
inverter; bid presentation

Week 2: Customer selects my bid out of a pool of three competevive bids,
other two bids string inverters, wants to sign contract and start work
immediately.

Week 2 plus One Day: Before contract signing check in with vendor; Enphase
still completely out of stock and lead time is now 12 WEEKS..shock,
heart attack, knowing I am going to lose the job (could have bid a string
inverter), how can I face my customer now?.

 

I ended up getting a line on the inverters I needed with a 6 week
leadtime, taking that to my customer and winning the job.  We are both now
waiting to see if the alternate vendor will deliver the product as promised.

 

The main thing that went thorough my mind was, "I thought we got over this
kind of thing with the module supply shortage, but it's deja vu all over
again."

 

Enphase may be diligent in managing quality during production ramp-up.
However, going from 2 weeks to 12 weeks leadtime in 2 weeks is no way to
manage customer expectation.

 

In my mind it's a black eye for Enphase. I am hoping that they will win a
feather back into their cap with an on time delivery of a stellar product.


Mark Frye 
Berkeley Solar Electric Systems 
303 Redbud Way 
Nevada City,  CA 95959 
(530) 401-8024 
  www.berkeleysolar.com  

 

 


  _  


From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org
[mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of Bill Brooks
Sent: Friday, June 19, 2009 2:58 PM
To: 'RE-wrenches'
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Enphase Recall?

Peter and all,

 

The Enphase product is the only one of its kind on the market currently
(there will be more). Their sales are far beyond where they thought they
were going to be-good and bad news. Great for them to be confirmed in their
market prediction. Bad for the people who are anxious to get the product.

 

Many companies simply ramp up production and hope for the best. It is my
impression that this is not what Enphase is doing. They are trying to
carefully control production.

 

If you are making sales based on the benefits and availability of the
Enphase product alone, that is probably bad business. Until the Enphase
product is widely available, I would recommend that you continue to use the
product wisely in specific locations where it will clearly outperform any
other option. If you are using the Enphase product where another mature
available product will do, you are not using your head or applying the
limited quantity of available product wisely. 

 

Continue to move with measured caution. The product looks good, but it is
not a silver bullet. Don't push t