[RE-wrenches] Surge protector update?

2009-07-31 Thread North Texas Renewable Energy Inc

August
I made a service call to a residential PVinstallation several years ago that 
I did not install. The vintage Trace, size I don't recall, had quit working. 
The Delta surge suppressor had actually ruptured along it's radial seam, a 
result I had always heard indicates a surge being absorbed.
The inverter went to the nearest authorized repair shop, a marine 
maintenance facility near Houston. The only problem was a cooked internal 
fusible link which was replaced free of charge.

The array was undamaged.
There's no way of knowing how close the lightning strike was but the Delta 
worked as it was intended. It's the only experience I can relate first-hand 
I'm happy to say.

It will be interesting to hear what sort of results you come up with.
Jim Duncan
North Texas Renewable Energy Inc
817.917.0527
nt...@earthlink.net
www.ntrei.com



--- Original Message - 
From: August Goers aug...@luminalt.com

To: RE-wrenches re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org
Sent: Friday, July 31, 2009 9:21 AM
Subject: [RE-wrenches] Surge protector update?



Wrenches -

Anyone have experience with lighning hitting an array with a surge protector 
installed? What happened?


I'm Here's an ad, point number 5 mentions that the surge protectors 
installed in the array combiner box protects solar modules and blocking 
diodes...


http://www.citel.us/dc_surge_protection_overview2.html

I'm trying to gather a firm opinion on whether they are a complete waste of 
$$$ and time or not. Good grounding seems I would guess is the best 
protection.


-August
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[RE-wrenches] Meggers.

2009-07-31 Thread jay peltz

HI All


In trying to round out my electrical tool box, I'm in the market for a  
Megger.


I was wondering what folks are recommending and/or what features to  
look for?


thanks,

jay

peltz power


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Re: [RE-wrenches] Surge protector update?

2009-07-31 Thread I2P
 
In a message dated 7/31/2009 7:21:49 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time,  
aug...@luminalt.com writes:

I'm  trying to gather a firm opinion on whether they are a complete waste 
of $$$  and time or not. Good grounding seems I would guess is the best  
protection.





Good grounding #1.  I use ac and dc side arrestors. Consider it cheap  
insurance, total cost under $100.
 
Suspect they are useless for direct strikes but can suppress induced surges 
 from nearby strikes. Never seen one (ac or dc) blow up or show any signs 
that a  strike occured.
 
Don
**An Excellent Credit Score is 750. See Yours in Just 2 Easy 
Steps! 
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yExcfooterNO62)
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Surge protector update?

2009-07-31 Thread I2P
 
In a message dated 7/31/2009 8:00:57 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time,  
nt...@earthlink.net writes:

The  Delta surge suppressor had actually ruptured along it's radial seam, a 
 
result I had always heard indicates a surge being  absorbed.




Jim, good new -bad new. The arrestor worked but did not save the inverter.  
Lightning is a crap shoot.
 
Don Loweburg
**An Excellent Credit Score is 750. See Yours in Just 2 Easy 
Steps! 
(http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1222846709x1201493018/aol?redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072hmpgID=62bcd=Jul
yExcfooterNO62)
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[RE-wrenches] down-sizing main breaker

2009-07-31 Thread Mendocino Solar Service

Hi Folks,

Can anyone provide code reference or advice on this question?
Our customer has 100 amp service at the meter pedestal, 100 amp main  
breaker feeding 200 foot underground run to a 100 amp panel at the  
house. We need to land a 40 amp breaker, so are proposing to replace  
main panel at house with 200 amp panel. The AHJ says we need a 200  
amp main breaker in this panel, which will work, but says this  
requires upsizing the feeder, main breaker at meter, and therefore  
utility service to 200 amps.


I've read on this list and elsewhere about downsizing the main  
breaker in a panel to create capacity to make the 120% rule. This AHJ  
says you can't put in a breaker smaller than the panel size, and  
furthermore, everything upstream would have to be upsized. Is this  
from the code?


Bruce Erickson
Mendocino Solar Service
PO Box 1252
Mendocino, CA 95460
707-937-1701



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Re: [RE-wrenches] down-sizing main breaker

2009-07-31 Thread Mark Frye
See Article 220 for load calculation and resulting breaker sizing
requirments.
 
Mark Frye 
Berkeley Solar Electric Systems 
303 Redbud Way 
Nevada City,  CA 95959 
(530) 401-8024 
 http://www.berkeleysolar.com/ www.berkeleysolar.com  
 

  _  

From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org
[mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of Mendocino
Solar Service
Sent: Friday, July 31, 2009 9:57 AM
To: RE-wrenches
Subject: [RE-wrenches] down-sizing main breaker


Hi Folks, 

Can anyone provide code reference or advice on this question?
Our customer has 100 amp service at the meter pedestal, 100 amp main breaker
feeding 200 foot underground run to a 100 amp panel at the house. We need to
land a 40 amp breaker, so are proposing to replace main panel at house with
200 amp panel. The AHJ says we need a 200 amp main breaker in this panel,
which will work, but says this requires upsizing the feeder, main breaker at
meter, and therefore utility service to 200 amps.

I've read on this list and elsewhere about downsizing the main breaker in a
panel to create capacity to make the 120% rule. This AHJ says you can't put
in a breaker smaller than the panel size, and furthermore, everything
upstream would have to be upsized. Is this from the code?


Bruce Erickson
Mendocino Solar Service
PO Box 1252
Mendocino, CA 95460
707-937-1701



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Re: [RE-wrenches] down-sizing main breaker

2009-07-31 Thread Matt Lafferty
Hi Bruce,
 
Unless you are leaving something meaningful out of your description, the AHJ
is wrong. Your description is fine as far as the code goes. I recommend
installing a 100A main in the new 200A panel for local disconnect @ house. 
 
Leave 100A main  feeder as-is (assuming safe, properly sized feeders,
suitable grounding, etc.). There is nothing in the code that says you have
to use identical size breaker to the buss rating. 
 
Try explaining it to the AHJ this way: Take the solar away from the
question. The 100A main breaker determines the MINIMUM rating of the feeders
and busbars. The busbars and feeders determine the MAXIMUM rating of
overcurrent devices. For example, using the AHJ logic, you would be
prohibited from using a #2 for feeder conductors between the 100A main and
the house because they are rated for up to 130A. Doesn't make any sense,
huh?
 
The extra ampacity in the bussing is permitted and provides additional
safety.
 
Best of luck!
 
Matt Lafferty

  _  

From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org
[mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of Mendocino
Solar Service
Sent: Friday, July 31, 2009 9:57 AM
To: RE-wrenches
Subject: [RE-wrenches] down-sizing main breaker


Hi Folks, 

Can anyone provide code reference or advice on this question?
Our customer has 100 amp service at the meter pedestal, 100 amp main breaker
feeding 200 foot underground run to a 100 amp panel at the house. We need to
land a 40 amp breaker, so are proposing to replace main panel at house with
200 amp panel. The AHJ says we need a 200 amp main breaker in this panel,
which will work, but says this requires upsizing the feeder, main breaker at
meter, and therefore utility service to 200 amps.

I've read on this list and elsewhere about downsizing the main breaker in a
panel to create capacity to make the 120% rule. This AHJ says you can't put
in a breaker smaller than the panel size, and furthermore, everything
upstream would have to be upsized. Is this from the code?


Bruce Erickson
Mendocino Solar Service
PO Box 1252
Mendocino, CA 95460
707-937-1701



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Re: [RE-wrenches] Meggers.

2009-07-31 Thread Bill Brooks
Jay,

I bought two insulation testers (Megger is a brand name) in April. A used
Fluke 1520 off Ebay for $275 and a new inexpensive (cheap) insulation tester
on Amazon (Electronic Specialties 550 Insulation Tester for $162). Both work
fine. The Fluke has better accuracy that I need for very specialized field
wet resistance testing (FWRT). However, the cheap tester works great for
finding faults in conductors and severe faults in modules. 

I bought both to determine if a cheap meter would work and the answer is
YES. The key is performing the tests properly and safely which requires test
procedures. The other key to actually use the tester. Several people own
these devices, but never use them. They should be used on every installation
after the wire is installed to determine if any wire damage is visible to
the tester. Even though this will not solve all field mistakes, it will
catch the marginal problems that may be too small to be detected by the GFP
circuit in the inverter.

Bill.


-Original Message-
From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org
[mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of jay peltz
Sent: Friday, July 31, 2009 8:58 AM
To: RE-wrenches
Subject: [RE-wrenches] Meggers.

HI All


In trying to round out my electrical tool box, I'm in the market for a  
Megger.

I was wondering what folks are recommending and/or what features to  
look for?

thanks,

jay

peltz power

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Re: [RE-wrenches] down-sizing main breaker

2009-07-31 Thread Bill Brooks
Bruce,

 

Use a standard 125-amp panel with a 100-amp main breaker. This is a very
common panel and does not require downsizing the main breaker any further
(it is already downsized). It allows up to a 50-amp PV breaker.

 

Bill.

 

From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org
[mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of Mendocino
Solar Service
Sent: Friday, July 31, 2009 9:57 AM
To: RE-wrenches
Subject: [RE-wrenches] down-sizing main breaker

 

Hi Folks,

 

Can anyone provide code reference or advice on this question?

Our customer has 100 amp service at the meter pedestal, 100 amp main breaker
feeding 200 foot underground run to a 100 amp panel at the house. We need to
land a 40 amp breaker, so are proposing to replace main panel at house with
200 amp panel. The AHJ says we need a 200 amp main breaker in this panel,
which will work, but says this requires upsizing the feeder, main breaker at
meter, and therefore utility service to 200 amps.

 

I've read on this list and elsewhere about downsizing the main breaker in a
panel to create capacity to make the 120% rule. This AHJ says you can't put
in a breaker smaller than the panel size, and furthermore, everything
upstream would have to be upsized. Is this from the code?

Bruce Erickson

Mendocino Solar Service

PO Box 1252

Mendocino, CA 95460

707-937-1701

 

 

 

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[RE-wrenches] down-sizing main breaker

2009-07-31 Thread Nick Vida
if you read 690.64b it does mention both the buss rating AND conductors.

for years and years I thought it was just for the buss rating until i got 
called recently for the feeders being undersized and unable to accommodate the 
solar within 120%. I see a lot of sentiments in this thread that it is only for 
busing, and I would really like to discover a reference to that. Someone told 
me something about the difference of having main lugs and main breakers in the 
sub panel... i am looking into it.

From the literal of 690.64 it would seem that if you are fed with #4 than you 
are stuck with 120% of 100a regardless of the sub panel rating.

nick



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[RE-wrenches] down-sizing main breaker

2009-07-31 Thread Nick Vida
if you read 690.64b it does mention both the buss rating AND conductors.

for years and years I thought it was just for the buss rating until i got 
called recently for the feeders being undersized and unable to accommodate the 
solar within 120%. I see a lot of sentiments in this thread that it is only for 
busing, and I would really like to discover a reference to that. Someone told 
me something about the difference of having main lugs and main breakers in the 
sub panel... i am looking into it.

From the literal of 690.64 it would seem that if you are fed with #4 than you 
are stuck with 120% of 100a regardless of the sub panel rating.

nick



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Re: [RE-wrenches] Surge protector update?

2009-07-31 Thread boB Gudgel

North Texas Renewable Energy Inc wrote:

August
I made a service call to a residential PVinstallation several years 
ago that I did not install. The vintage Trace, size I don't recall, 
had quit working. The Delta surge suppressor had actually ruptured 
along it's radial seam, a result I had always heard indicates a surge 
being absorbed.


Do you know if the Delta was placed at the array, or near the inverter 
??Was most likely installed  at the array ?



Thanks,
boB






The inverter went to the nearest authorized repair shop, a marine 
maintenance facility near Houston. The only problem was a cooked 
internal fusible link which was replaced free of charge.

The array was undamaged.
There's no way of knowing how close the lightning strike was but the 
Delta worked as it was intended. It's the only experience I can relate 
first-hand I'm happy to say.

It will be interesting to hear what sort of results you come up with.
Jim Duncan
North Texas Renewable Energy Inc
817.917.0527
nt...@earthlink.net
www.ntrei.com



--- Original Message - From: August Goers aug...@luminalt.com
To: RE-wrenches re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org
Sent: Friday, July 31, 2009 9:21 AM
Subject: [RE-wrenches] Surge protector update?



Wrenches -

Anyone have experience with lighning hitting an array with a surge 
protector installed? What happened?


I'm Here's an ad, point number 5 mentions that the surge protectors 
installed in the array combiner box protects solar modules and 
blocking diodes...


http://www.citel.us/dc_surge_protection_overview2.html

I'm trying to gather a firm opinion on whether they are a complete 
waste of $$$ and time or not. Good grounding seems I would guess is 
the best protection.


-August
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[RE-wrenches] fed grant

2009-07-31 Thread Marco Mangelsdorf
In order to get the 30 percent federal grant rather than the 30 percent ITC,
is there any requirement that the equipment used be American made?

 

Thanks,

marco

 

provision_highres_solar_logo2 with C-26351

Marco Mangelsdorf, President
69 Railroad Avenue, A-7
Hilo, Hawai'i 96720
(808) 969-3281, 934-7462 facsimile
 http://www.provisiontechnologies.com www.provision-solar.com

 

 

 

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Re: [RE-wrenches] fed grant

2009-07-31 Thread David Brearley
No. 

The Recovery Act specifies that Buy America provisions are applicable to
³Division A² programs of the ARRA. The cash grant, according to a resource
made available to SEIA members, is a ³Division B² program.

David Brearley, Senior Technical Editor
SolarPro magazine 
NABCEP Certified PV Installer 
david.brear...@solarprofessional.com
Direct: 541.261.6545
Fax:  541.512.0343

Visit our Web site at solarprofessional.com

(Sample copy available for download at: solarprofessional.com/sample)

On 7/31/09 6:50 PM, Marco Mangelsdorf ma...@pvthawaii.com wrote:

 In order to get the 30 percent federal grant rather than the 30 percent ITC,
 is there any requirement that the equipment used be American made?
  
 Thanks,
 marco
  
 
 Marco Mangelsdorf, President
 69 Railroad Avenue, A-7
 Hilo, Hawai'i 96720
 (808) 969-3281, 934-7462 facsimile
 www.provision-solar.com http://www.provisiontechnologies.com
  
  
  
 





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[RE-wrenches] solid vs stranded AC vs DC

2009-07-31 Thread jay peltz

HI All,

I'm trying to understand this wire issue.

Whether or not there is a difference between stranded or solid wire  
for DC or AC.


Any takers on this one?

thanks,

jay

peltz power
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Re: [RE-wrenches] solid vs stranded AC vs DC

2009-07-31 Thread Darryl Thayer

Well there is very slight differences between AC and Dc But this difference
is so slight that it has no effect on anything we will do.  
Darryl
--- On Fri, 7/31/09, jay peltz j...@asis.com wrote:

 From: jay peltz j...@asis.com
 Subject: [RE-wrenches] solid vs stranded  AC vs DC
 To: RE-wrenches re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org
 Date: Friday, July 31, 2009, 7:00 PM
 HI All,
 
 I'm trying to understand this wire issue.
 
 Whether or not there is a difference between stranded or
 solid wire for DC or AC.
 
 Any takers on this one?
 
 thanks,
 
 jay
 
 peltz power
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Surge protector update?

2009-07-31 Thread robert ellison
I ground things well, bond them together and I install  LA's at the array
and at the e panel. Then I make the sign of the cross and pray for the best.

Also a good idea to change them out every few years we really don't know
how hard they work, till they fail.

Bob

On Fri, Jul 31, 2009 at 2:53 PM, boB Gudgel b...@midnitesolar.com wrote:

 North Texas Renewable Energy Inc wrote:

 August
 I made a service call to a residential PVinstallation several years ago
 that I did not install. The vintage Trace, size I don't recall, had quit
 working. The Delta surge suppressor had actually ruptured along it's radial
 seam, a result I had always heard indicates a surge being absorbed.


 Do you know if the Delta was placed at the array, or near the inverter ??
  Was most likely installed  at the array ?


 Thanks,
 boB







 The inverter went to the nearest authorized repair shop, a marine
 maintenance facility near Houston. The only problem was a cooked internal
 fusible link which was replaced free of charge.
 The array was undamaged.
 There's no way of knowing how close the lightning strike was but the Delta
 worked as it was intended. It's the only experience I can relate first-hand
 I'm happy to say.
 It will be interesting to hear what sort of results you come up with.
 Jim Duncan
 North Texas Renewable Energy Inc
 817.917.0527
 nt...@earthlink.net
 www.ntrei.com



 --- Original Message - From: August Goers aug...@luminalt.com
 To: RE-wrenches re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org
 Sent: Friday, July 31, 2009 9:21 AM
 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Surge protector update?



 Wrenches -

 Anyone have experience with lighning hitting an array with a surge
 protector installed? What happened?

 I'm Here's an ad, point number 5 mentions that the surge protectors
 installed in the array combiner box protects solar modules and blocking
 diodes...

 http://www.citel.us/dc_surge_protection_overview2.html

 I'm trying to gather a firm opinion on whether they are a complete waste
 of $$$ and time or not. Good grounding seems I would guess is the best
 protection.

 -August
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Re: [RE-wrenches] solid vs stranded AC vs DC

2009-07-31 Thread jay peltz

Hi Darryl,

But what are the differences and when do they come into play?




On Jul 31, 2009, at 7:25 PM, Darryl Thayer wrote:



Well there is very slight differences between AC and Dc But this  
difference

is so slight that it has no effect on anything we will do.
Darryl
--- On Fri, 7/31/09, jay peltz j...@asis.com wrote:


From: jay peltz j...@asis.com
Subject: [RE-wrenches] solid vs stranded  AC vs DC
To: RE-wrenches re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org
Date: Friday, July 31, 2009, 7:00 PM
HI All,

I'm trying to understand this wire issue.

Whether or not there is a difference between stranded or
solid wire for DC or AC.

Any takers on this one?

thanks,

jay

peltz power
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