Re: [RE-wrenches] Battery Automatic Watering
Another person's opinion... With all due respect, Allan, if you understand how the Hydrocap works (properly sized, removal when equalizing, as detailed in the instructions) and use distilled (or equivalent) water to top off the electrolyte much more infrequently than regularly, Hydrocaps provide a close second to a recombinant battery at a fraction of the cost of the real thing. Moreover, they are reusable (unless you blow them up). I know of nothing, nothing that competes with the Hydrocap. The yellow flip caps provide a marginal convenience in terms of filling, however there is no comparison in performance. Have any Homepower articles ever reviewed either of these things back in the Dark Ages? The use of a suitable battery enclosure to contain the potential results of _any_ battery mishap should be defacto procedure. I will send George a copy of this thread and will post his reply, if he chooses to comment. I believe it was Windy who commented the biggest hassle of the Hydrocaps was dealing with George and evidently Joel can echo that experience. Bill Loesch Solar 1 - Saint Louis Solar 314 631 1094 MO Licensed Professional Engineer Saint Louis County (MO) Licensed Water Heater Specialist - Original Message - From: Allan Sindelar To: RE-wrenches Sent: Sunday, December 13, 2009 4:01 PM Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Battery Automatic Watering One person's opinion, here... Avoid Hydrocaps. You need to remove them to equalize. They can clog up and plug the battery up, leading to an explosion from pressure. I have seen it. ![endif]-- Allan Sindelar al...@positiveenergysolar.com NABCEP Certified Photovoltaic Installer EE98J Journeyman Electrician Positive Energy, Inc. 3201 Calle Marie Santa Fe, New Mexico 87507 505 424-1112 www.positiveenergysolar.com wind...@wind-sun.com wrote: Hydrocaps - they run around $30 each last I checked. We used to sell them but gave up when lead times went from weeks to months. .. Northern Arizona Wind Sun - Electricity From The Sun Since 1979 Solar Discussion Forum: http://www.wind-sun.com/ForumVB/ .. - Original Message - From: Andrew Truitt To: RE-wrenches Sent: Sunday, December 13, 2009 1:07 PM Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Battery Automatic Watering Has anyone ever used the recombination caps that combine the released hydrogen with oxygen and return the pure water to the cells? I am considering them for a large ([98] 2200Ah Surrettes) battery system that we installed a while ago, but I think they run about $200 a piece. Andrew Truitt Standard Solar Inc. On Sat, Dec 12, 2009 at 1:33 PM, Joel Davidson joel.david...@sbcglobal.net wrote: Than you Roy, Jay, Jeff, and ... I'm glad I checked my email before going to Pep Boys to buy an automotive battery filler. Great idea! I've been buying and selling batteries for over 35 years and this is the first time I've heard about using a garden sprayer to fill batteries. The RE-Wrenches knowledge base scores again! Happy Holidays. Joel Davidson - Original Message - From: Roy Butler r...@four-winds-energy.com To: RE-wrenches re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Sent: Saturday, December 12, 2009 5:50 AM Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Battery Automatic Watering Joel, I was waiting to see if others use my method but I didn't see anyone post it. I've been off grid and having to maintain my batteries since 1997. I grew to hate the battery watering jugs for several reasons and finally came up with something that works for me.your results may vary! I now use a pump up type garden sprayer. I use a 1.5 gallon version with a plastic wand, spray tip removed. I pump it up 6-8 times and that pressure allows me to fill 3 to 4 cells, depending on the volume of water needed. What I like about this is that the wand reaches anywhere in the bank and most important, I can watch the cells fill. I put a piece of electrical tape around the wand and insert the wand into the cell to the tape level. This is my water level and it's really easy to tell when the electrolyte reaches the end of the wand. About 1/2 of my customers are off grid and most use the sprayer method with good results. BTW, this was a brand new sprayer, dedicated to distilled water and hidden away from my wife, who loves to grab what ever is available in my shop. And at least here in snow country, the sprayers are all on sale! Roy Butler NABCEP Certified
Re: [RE-wrenches] Battery Automatic Watering
Maybe one way to express it would be hydrocaps are great if you use the the same charging parameters no matter what the age, condition of the battery is. This seems to be critical to sizing the HCs properly. And you (or the always attentive and willing customer) don't (doesn't) mind removing (and replacing) the hydrocaps for every equalization for the rest of eternity. I wonder if part of this debate doesn't center on the frequency of equalizations. Many battery brands, systems require more frequent eqs than others. Maybe you can tell I've gone back to regular caps after using HCs Bill Feather River Solar Electric - Original Message - From: Bill Loesch To: al...@positiveenergysolar.com ; RE-wrenches Sent: Monday, December 14, 2009 4:17 AM Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Battery Automatic Watering Another person's opinion... With all due respect, Allan, if you understand how the Hydrocap works (properly sized, removal when equalizing, as detailed in the instructions) and use distilled (or equivalent) water to top off the electrolyte much more infrequently than regularly, Hydrocaps provide a close second to a recombinant battery at a fraction of the cost of the real thing. Moreover, they are reusable (unless you blow them up). I know of nothing, nothing that competes with the Hydrocap. The yellow flip caps provide a marginal convenience in terms of filling, however there is no comparison in performance. Have any Homepower articles ever reviewed either of these things back in the Dark Ages? The use of a suitable battery enclosure to contain the potential results of _any_ battery mishap should be defacto procedure. I will send George a copy of this thread and will post his reply, if he chooses to comment. I believe it was Windy who commented the biggest hassle of the Hydrocaps was dealing with George and evidently Joel can echo that experience. Bill Loesch Solar 1 - Saint Louis Solar 314 631 1094 MO Licensed Professional Engineer Saint Louis County (MO) Licensed Water Heater Specialist - Original Message - From: Allan Sindelar To: RE-wrenches Sent: Sunday, December 13, 2009 4:01 PM Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Battery Automatic Watering One person's opinion, here... Avoid Hydrocaps. You need to remove them to equalize. They can clog up and plug the battery up, leading to an explosion from pressure. I have seen it. ![endif]-- Allan Sindelar al...@positiveenergysolar.com NABCEP Certified Photovoltaic Installer EE98J Journeyman Electrician Positive Energy, Inc. 3201 Calle Marie Santa Fe, New Mexico 87507 505 424-1112 www.positiveenergysolar.com wind...@wind-sun.com wrote: Hydrocaps - they run around $30 each last I checked. We used to sell them but gave up when lead times went from weeks to months. .. Northern Arizona Wind Sun - Electricity From The Sun Since 1979 Solar Discussion Forum: http://www.wind-sun.com/ForumVB/ .. - Original Message - From: Andrew Truitt To: RE-wrenches Sent: Sunday, December 13, 2009 1:07 PM Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Battery Automatic Watering Has anyone ever used the recombination caps that combine the released hydrogen with oxygen and return the pure water to the cells? I am considering them for a large ([98] 2200Ah Surrettes) battery system that we installed a while ago, but I think they run about $200 a piece. Andrew Truitt Standard Solar Inc. On Sat, Dec 12, 2009 at 1:33 PM, Joel Davidson joel.david...@sbcglobal.net wrote: Than you Roy, Jay, Jeff, and ... I'm glad I checked my email before going to Pep Boys to buy an automotive battery filler. Great idea! I've been buying and selling batteries for over 35 years and this is the first time I've heard about using a garden sprayer to fill batteries. The RE-Wrenches knowledge base scores again! Happy Holidays. Joel Davidson ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Battery Automatic Watering
Watermiser caps work the same way as the Hydrocaps and the caps do not need to be removed for equalization, per the manufacturer's directions. Carl HansenSun Elect. - Original Message - From: frenergy To: RE-wrenches ; al...@positiveenergysolar.com Sent: Monday, December 14, 2009 9:05 AM Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Battery Automatic Watering Maybe one way to express it would be hydrocaps are great if you use the the same charging parameters no matter what the age, condition of the battery is. This seems to be critical to sizing the HCs properly. And you (or the always attentive and willing customer) don't (doesn't) mind removing (and replacing) the hydrocaps for every equalization for the rest of eternity. I wonder if part of this debate doesn't center on the frequency of equalizations. Many battery brands, systems require more frequent eqs than others. Maybe you can tell I've gone back to regular caps after using HCs Bill Feather River Solar Electric - Original Message - From: Bill Loesch To: al...@positiveenergysolar.com ; RE-wrenches Sent: Monday, December 14, 2009 4:17 AM Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Battery Automatic Watering Another person's opinion... With all due respect, Allan, if you understand how the Hydrocap works (properly sized, removal when equalizing, as detailed in the instructions) and use distilled (or equivalent) water to top off the electrolyte much more infrequently than regularly, Hydrocaps provide a close second to a recombinant battery at a fraction of the cost of the real thing. Moreover, they are reusable (unless you blow them up). I know of nothing, nothing that competes with the Hydrocap. The yellow flip caps provide a marginal convenience in terms of filling, however there is no comparison in performance. Have any Homepower articles ever reviewed either of these things back in the Dark Ages? The use of a suitable battery enclosure to contain the potential results of _any_ battery mishap should be defacto procedure. I will send George a copy of this thread and will post his reply, if he chooses to comment. I believe it was Windy who commented the biggest hassle of the Hydrocaps was dealing with George and evidently Joel can echo that experience. Bill Loesch Solar 1 - Saint Louis Solar 314 631 1094 MO Licensed Professional Engineer Saint Louis County (MO) Licensed Water Heater Specialist - Original Message - From: Allan Sindelar To: RE-wrenches Sent: Sunday, December 13, 2009 4:01 PM Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Battery Automatic Watering One person's opinion, here... Avoid Hydrocaps. You need to remove them to equalize. They can clog up and plug the battery up, leading to an explosion from pressure. I have seen it. ![endif]-- Allan Sindelar al...@positiveenergysolar.com NABCEP Certified Photovoltaic Installer EE98J Journeyman Electrician Positive Energy, Inc. 3201 Calle Marie Santa Fe, New Mexico 87507 505 424-1112 www.positiveenergysolar.com wind...@wind-sun.com wrote: Hydrocaps - they run around $30 each last I checked. We used to sell them but gave up when lead times went from weeks to months. .. Northern Arizona Wind Sun - Electricity From The Sun Since 1979 Solar Discussion Forum: http://www.wind-sun.com/ForumVB/ .. - Original Message - From: Andrew Truitt To: RE-wrenches Sent: Sunday, December 13, 2009 1:07 PM Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Battery Automatic Watering Has anyone ever used the recombination caps that combine the released hydrogen with oxygen and return the pure water to the cells? I am considering them for a large ([98] 2200Ah Surrettes) battery system that we installed a while ago, but I think they run about $200 a piece. Andrew Truitt Standard Solar Inc. On Sat, Dec 12, 2009 at 1:33 PM, Joel Davidson joel.david...@sbcglobal.net wrote: Than you Roy, Jay, Jeff, and ... I'm glad I checked my email before going to Pep Boys to buy an automotive battery filler. Great idea! I've been buying and selling batteries for over 35 years and this is the first time I've heard about using a garden sprayer to fill batteries. The RE-Wrenches knowledge base scores again! Happy Holidays. Joel Davidson -- ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address:
[RE-wrenches] Watermisers-was Battery Automatic Watering
Carl, No, they don't. Hydrocaps remove most of the free hydrogen from the air that is caused by gassing. The Watermisers do not, however they do the same good job of keeping the tops of the batteries clean ad the HCs. Bob-O On Dec 14, 2009, at 8:14 AM, Carl Hansen wrote: Watermiser caps work the same way as the Hydrocaps and the caps do not need to be removed for equalization, per the manufacturer's directions. Carl HansenSun Elect. ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Battery Automatic Watering
I stopped using Hydro-caps after replacing the umpteenth set that had melted down. During a conversation with Hydro-cap I was told that [ this was many years ago] the bulk voltage was too high @ 28.8 VDC and I charge 24 volt banks to 29.2 VDC and I should be using a lower setting and if I was to and that I was going to EQ that I needed to remove the caps. I feel that this is out of line and it did not agree with my battery suppliers requirement to completely charge and maintain a properly maintained bank. I have thrown out literally 100's of caps that have melted down over the years. Dana Orzel Great Solar Works, Inc www.solarwork.com E - d...@solarwork.com V - 970.626.5253 F - 970.626.4140 C - 970.209.4076 I will be the shift in how the world uses power! - Dana Orzel From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of Joel Davidson Sent: Sunday, December 13, 2009 7:18 PM To: RE-wrenches Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Battery Automatic Watering You can get Hydrocaps direct from Hydrocap Corp., 975 N.W. 95 Street, Miami, FL 33150, Tel 305-696-2504. I gave up trying to buy them after they returned my check twice. They wanted more info about charge rates and battery dimensions even though I filled out their order form and talked to them twice. I think they were concerned because the Hydrocaps from the old set of the same IBE cells did not fit on the new cells even though they were the same model IBE cells. Instead, I'm getting a garden sprayer and will check and fill the cells as needed. I'll check the cells every 2 months in the first year and then determine the inspection frequency. The batteries are on a Sunny Boy/Island grid-tie PV system so inspection will probably be 2 to 4 times per year after the first year. Joel Davidson - Original Message - From: Allan Sindelar mailto:al...@positiveenergysolar.com To: RE-wrenches mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Sent: Sunday, December 13, 2009 2:01 PM Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Battery Automatic Watering One person's opinion, here... Avoid Hydrocaps. You need to remove them to equalize. They can clog up and plug the battery up, leading to an explosion from pressure. I have seen it. ![endif]-- Allan Sindelar mailto:al...@positiveenergysolar.com al...@positiveenergysolar.com NABCEP Certified Photovoltaic Installer EE98J Journeyman Electrician Positive Energy, Inc. 3201 Calle Marie Santa Fe, New Mexico 87507 505 424-1112 http://www.positiveenergysolar.com/ www.positiveenergysolar.com mailto:wind...@wind-sun.com wind...@wind-sun.com wrote: Hydrocaps - they run around $30 each last I checked. We used to sell them but gave up when lead times went from weeks to months. .. Northern Arizona Wind Sun - Electricity From The Sun Since 1979 Solar Discussion Forum: http://www.wind-sun.com/ForumVB/ http://www.wind-sun.com/ForumVB/ .. - Original Message - From: mailto:atru...@gmail.com Andrew Truitt To: mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org RE-wrenches Sent: Sunday, December 13, 2009 1:07 PM Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Battery Automatic Watering Has anyone ever used the recombination caps that combine the released hydrogen with oxygen and return the pure water to the cells? I am considering them for a large ([98] 2200Ah Surrettes) battery system that we installed a while ago, but I think they run about $200 a piece. Andrew Truitt Standard Solar Inc. On Sat, Dec 12, 2009 at 1:33 PM, Joel Davidson mailto:joel.david...@sbcglobal.net joel.david...@sbcglobal.net wrote: Than you Roy, Jay, Jeff, and ... I'm glad I checked my email before going to Pep Boys to buy an automotive battery filler. Great idea! I've been buying and selling batteries for over 35 years and this is the first time I've heard about using a garden sprayer to fill batteries. The RE-Wrenches knowledge base scores again! Happy Holidays. Joel Davidson - Original Message - From: Roy Butler mailto:r...@four-winds-energy.com r...@four-winds-energy.com To: RE-wrenches mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Sent: Saturday, December 12, 2009 5:50 AM Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Battery Automatic Watering Joel, I was waiting to see if others use my method but I didn't see anyone post it. I've been off grid and having to maintain my batteries since 1997. I grew to hate the battery watering jugs for several reasons and finally came up with something that works for me.your results may vary! I now use a pump up type garden sprayer. I use a 1.5 gallon version with a plastic wand, spray tip removed. I pump it up 6-8 times and that pressure allows me to fill 3 to 4 cells, depending on the volume of water needed.
Re: [RE-wrenches] Battery Automatic Watering
Water miser caps and hydro caps are not the same thing except that they both fit into the hole in the top of the battery. I have not used hydro caps in years, too hard to deal with! Take them off to equalise the battery bank? Thats when you need them most Bob On Mon, Dec 14, 2009 at 11:14 AM, Carl Hansen solar...@cybermesa.comwrote: Watermiser caps work the same way as the Hydrocaps and the caps do not need to be removed for equalization, per the manufacturer's directions. Carl HansenSun Elect. - Original Message - *From:* frenergy frene...@psln.com *To:* RE-wrenches re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org ; al...@positiveenergysolar.com *Sent:* Monday, December 14, 2009 9:05 AM *Subject:* Re: [RE-wrenches] Battery Automatic Watering Maybe one way to express it would be hydrocaps are great if you use the the same charging parameters no matter what the age, condition of the battery is. This seems to be critical to sizing the HCs properly. And you (or the always attentive and willing customer) don't (doesn't) mind removing (and replacing) the hydrocaps for every equalization for the rest of eternity. I wonder if part of this debate doesn't center on the frequency of equalizations. Many battery brands, systems require more frequent eqs than others. Maybe you can tell I've gone back to regular caps after using HCs Bill Feather River Solar Electric - Original Message - *From:* Bill Loesch solar1onl...@charter.net *To:* al...@positiveenergysolar.com ; RE-wrenchesre-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org *Sent:* Monday, December 14, 2009 4:17 AM *Subject:* Re: [RE-wrenches] Battery Automatic Watering Another person's opinion... With all due respect, Allan, if you understand how the Hydrocap works (properly sized, removal when equalizing, as detailed in the instructions) and use distilled (or equivalent) water to top off the electrolyte much more infrequently than regularly, Hydrocaps provide a close second to a recombinant battery at a fraction of the cost of the real thing. Moreover, they are reusable (unless you blow them up). I know of nothing, nothing that competes with the Hydrocap. The yellow flip caps provide a marginal convenience in terms of filling, however there is no comparison in performance. Have any Homepower articles ever reviewed either of these things back in the Dark Ages? The use of a suitable battery enclosure to contain the potential results of _any_ battery mishap should be defacto procedure. I will send George a copy of this thread and will post his reply, if he chooses to comment. I believe it was Windy who commented the biggest hassle of the Hydrocaps was dealing with George and evidently Joel can echo that experience. Bill Loesch Solar 1 - Saint Louis Solar 314 631 1094 MO Licensed Professional Engineer Saint Louis County (MO) Licensed Water Heater Specialist - Original Message - *From:* Allan Sindelar al...@positiveenergysolar.com *To:* RE-wrenches re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org *Sent:* Sunday, December 13, 2009 4:01 PM *Subject:* Re: [RE-wrenches] Battery Automatic Watering One person's opinion, here... Avoid Hydrocaps. You need to remove them to equalize. They can clog up and plug the battery up, leading to an explosion from pressure. I have seen it. ![endif]-- *Allan** Sindelar* al...@positiveenergysolar.com NABCEP Certified Photovoltaic Installer EE98J Journeyman Electrician *Positive Energy, Inc.* 3201 Calle Marie Santa Fe, New Mexico 87507 *505 424-1112* www.positiveenergysolar.com wind...@wind-sun.com wrote: Hydrocaps - they run around $30 each last I checked. We used to sell them but gave up when lead times went from weeks to months. .. Northern Arizona Wind Sun - Electricity From The Sun Since 1979 Solar Discussion Forum: http://www.wind-sun.com/ForumVB/ .. - Original Message - *From:* Andrew Truitt atru...@gmail.com *To:* RE-wrenches re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org *Sent:* Sunday, December 13, 2009 1:07 PM *Subject:* Re: [RE-wrenches] Battery Automatic Watering Has anyone ever used the recombination caps that combine the released hydrogen with oxygen and return the pure water to the cells? I am considering them for a large ([98] 2200Ah Surrettes) battery system that we installed a while ago, but I think they run about $200 a piece. Andrew Truitt Standard Solar Inc. On Sat, Dec 12, 2009 at 1:33 PM, Joel Davidson joel.david...@sbcglobal.net wrote: Than you Roy, Jay, Jeff, and ... I'm glad I checked my email before going to Pep Boys to buy an automotive battery filler. Great idea! I've been buying and selling batteries for over 35 years and this is the first time I've heard about using a garden sprayer to fill batteries. The
Re: [RE-wrenches] Clean Energy Brands
There is a list of about 30 online distributors for Bosch here http://www.boschtools.com/WheretoBuy/OnlinePartners/Pages/default.aspx And that company is not listed. .. Northern Arizona Wind Sun - Electricity From The Sun Since 1979 Solar Discussion Forum: http://www.wind-sun.com/ForumVB/ .. - Original Message - From: Dana To: 'RE-wrenches' Sent: Monday, December 14, 2009 11:14 AM Subject: [RE-wrenches] Clean Energy Brands Has anyone had any interaction with a company called Clean Energy Brands out of Cheyenne, WY? They claim to sell the Bosch Detec -100 150 but do not answer the phone or return messages. Does anyone have a source in the USA for the Bosch Detec -100 or 150? I have run the web silly looking for this here in the event it had to be returned or defective. Dana Orzel Great Solar Works, Inc www.solarwork.com E - d...@solarwork.com V - 970.626.5253 F - 970.626.4140 C - 970.209.4076 I will be the shift in how the world uses power! - Dana Orzel -- ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
