Re: [RE-wrenches] Solar World 175's

2010-01-28 Thread a karnitz
Hi David,

Email er...@dcpower-systems.com.  She has 20 in stock as of this morning.
  

Andy Karnitz  NABCEP Certified PV Installer  Blue Skies Solar  Renewable Energy 
Solutions  CA lic. 916318 C46  Eureka, CA 95503
  707-834-9434   

--- On Wed, 1/27/10, David Palumbo d...@independentpowerllc.com wrote:

From: David Palumbo d...@independentpowerllc.com
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Solar World 175's
To: 'RE-wrenches' re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org
Date: Wednesday, January 27, 2010, 3:31 PM




 
 






Does any one have ten SW175’s they would like to sell?
Or know of a source for same? I have a project needing 30 and I can get my hands
on only 20 so far. I have tried AEE and have cleaned out Power UP so far. 

   

David Palumbo 

President, Independent Power LLC 

462 Solar Way Drive, Hyde Park, VT 05655 

NABCEP Certified 

www.independentpowerllc.com  

(802) 888-7194 

   



 


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[RE-wrenches] kwh meters

2010-01-28 Thread gary
I am using an analog GE kwhmeter on an outback system with battery backup to a protected loads panel. The AC in to the inverteris attached tothe bottom of one leg of the meter and the AC out of the inverter is connected to the top of the other leg. This should give me an accurate record of just the production from the system. The idea is that the ACIN that will power the protected loads panel at night will come in the bottom of one leg and turn the meter backwardsthen exit through the top of themeter going forward thus cancelling those kwh. out. I have a neutral hooked to the meter because I am using it to record 120V but I am not getting accurate readings with this configuration. Any suggestions on metering in this case? I need a utility grade kwh meter. 

Gary EastonNABCEP Certified Solar PVNABCEP Certified Solar Thermal APPALACHIAN RENEWABLE POWER LTD.Stewart, Ohio 740-277-8498“I'd put my money on solar energy… I hope we don't have to wait 'til oil and coal run out before we tackle that.”—Thomas Edison, in conversation with Henry Ford and Harvey Firestone, March 1931
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Re: [RE-wrenches] kwh meters

2010-01-28 Thread David Brearley
Is it a Form 12-S meter? If not, that¹s the reason its not working. Here¹s
an article you can refer to:

http://solarprofessional.com/article/?file=SP1_1_pg16_QandA_3search=

David Brearley, Senior Technical Editor
SolarPro magazine 
NABCEP Certified PV Installer 
david.brear...@solarprofessional.com
Direct: 541.261.6545



On 1/28/10 2:57 PM, g...@arp-solar.com g...@arp-solar.com wrote:

  I am using an analog GE kwh meter on an outback system with battery backup to
 a protected loads panel.  The AC in to the inverter is attached to the bottom
 of one leg of the meter and the AC out of the inverter is connected to the top
 of the other leg. This should give me an accurate record of just the
 production from the system. The idea is that the AC IN that will power the
 protected loads panel at night will come in the bottom of one leg and turn the
 meter backwards then exit through the top of the meter going forward thus
 cancelling those kwh. out. I have a neutral hooked to the meter because I am
 using it to record 120V but I am not getting accurate readings with this
 configuration. Any suggestions on metering in this case? I need a utility
 grade kwh meter. 
  
 Gary Easton
 NABCEP Certified Solar PV
 NABCEP Certified Solar Thermal
 APPALACHIAN RENEWABLE POWER LTD.
 Stewart, Ohio 
 740-277-8498
 
 ³I'd put my money on solar energyŠ I hope we don't have to wait 'til oil and
 coal run out before we tackle that.²
 
 ‹Thomas Edison, in conversation with Henry Ford and Harvey Firestone, March
 1931
 
 
 
 
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Re: [RE-wrenches] kwh meters

2010-01-28 Thread Matt Lafferty
Hi Gary,
 
You did say you're using the neutral, so I'm assuming you've got the 5-jaw
socket and meter (Form 12S). You also need to make sure the meter itself is
non-detented. Once you reconfigure the socket to match the one shown in
David's reference you should be good to go.
 
Not sure which aspect(s) of utility grade you need. I'll assume you mean
revenue grade accuracy. The generally accepted threshold for this is +/-2%
overall. A lot of analog meters (most) are not certified as revenue grade
when running in the backward direction. Forget about certified, they
simply are all over the map with accuracy tolerance in the backward
direction. For this reason, many were disqualified for use in Net Metering
applications. Since your use is technically measuring the Net Generation,
your accuracy may be off... Not as far off as some inverter manufacturers'
displays have been in the past, but still possibly quite a bit off,
relatively speaking. Think in terms of up to +/-5%. Don't know if this
matters for your purposes or not, but I thought I'd throw it out there so
you don't have to go all the way through the learning curve by yourself.
Lonely curve, that one...
 
If Net Generation accuracy is critical, you have three fine choices and many
that aren't so fine. 
 
1)  The obvious easy one is to get confirmation that your meter is
certified Bi-Directional /or qualified/certified for Net Metering.
Occupants of Meter Meter Neverland are particularly paranoid person-objects.
Gaining a qualified confirmation of said information may take some
sleuthing. Don't bother trying to get information from GE. Start with the
vendor who sold it to you. If you have friends who work in the meter shop of
the local electric utility, you might want to talk with them. Hint: If you
get a blank stare from the meter guy when you say Net Meter Just
smile, excuse yourself, and go get a donut.
 
2)  If #1 doesn't pan out, find a meter that does and use it.
 
3)  Use two meters and do some subtraction. 
 
Pray for Sun!
 
Matt Lafferty

  _  

From: David Brearley

Is it a Form 12-S meter? If not, that's the reason its not working. Here's
an article you can refer to:

http://solarprofessional.com/article/?file=SP1_1_pg16_QandA_3
http://solarprofessional.com/article/?file=SP1_1_pg16_QandA_3search=
search=


On 1/28/10 2:57 PM, g...@arp-solar.com g...@arp-solar.com wrote:



I am using an analog GE kwh meter on an outback system with battery backup
to a protected loads panel.  The AC in to the inverter is attached to the
bottom of one leg of the meter and the AC out of the inverter is connected
to the top of the other leg. This should give me an accurate record of just
the production from the system. The idea is that the AC IN that will power
the protected loads panel at night will come in the bottom of one leg and
turn the meter backwards then exit through the top of the meter going
forward thus cancelling those kwh. out. I have a neutral hooked to the meter
because I am using it to record 120V but I am not getting accurate readings
with this configuration. Any suggestions on metering in this case? I need a
utility grade kwh meter.  
 


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Re: [RE-wrenches] kwh meters

2010-01-28 Thread gary
That's it!! I finally got an answer today from a tech at the meter company and he said the same thing. I should have come here first. What a resource!

Gary EastonNABCEP Certified Solar PVNABCEP Certified Solar Thermal APPALACHIAN RENEWABLE POWER LTD.Stewart, Ohio 740-277-8498“I'd put my money on solar energy… I hope we don't have to wait 'til oil and coal run out before we tackle that.”—Thomas Edison, in conversation with Henry Ford and Harvey Firestone, March 1931



 Original Message Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] kwh metersFrom: David Brearley david.brear...@solarprofessional.comDate: Thu, January 28, 2010 4:03 pmTo: RE-wrenches re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.orgIs it a Form 12-S meter? If not, that’s the reason its not working. Here’s an article you can refer to:http://solarprofessional.com/article/?file=SP1_1_pg16_QandA_3search=David Brearley, Senior Technical EditorSolarPromagazine NABCEP Certified PV Installer ™david.brear...@solarprofessional.comDirect: 541.261.6545On 1/28/10 2:57 PM, "g...@arp-solar.com" g...@arp-solar.com wrote:
I am using an analog GE kwh meter on an outback system with battery backup to a protected loads panel. The AC in to the inverter is attached to the bottom of one leg of the meter and the AC out of the inverter is connected to the top of the other leg. This should give me an accurate record of just the production from the system. The idea is that the AC IN that will power the protected loads panel at night will come in the bottom of one leg and turn the meter backwards then exit through the top of the meter going forward thus cancelling those kwh. out. I have a neutral hooked to the meter because I am using it to record 120V but I am not getting accurate readings with this configuration. Any suggestions on metering in this case? I need a utility grade kwh meter. Gary EastonNABCEP Certified Solar PVNABCEP Certified Solar Thermal APPALACHIAN RENEWABLE POWER LTD.Stewart, Ohio 740-277-8498“I'd put my money on solar energy… I hope we don't have to wait 'til oil and coal run out before we tackle that.”—Thomas Edison, in conversation with Henry Ford and Harvey Firestone, March 1931

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Re: [RE-wrenches] kwh meters

2010-01-28 Thread toddcory
Here is a repost of this information from 20067

Todd


Ok, I called Jake and he forwardedme to Brent Carper (253-395-6818) who works 
in the Puget Sound Energymetering department. I had a long conversation with 
him about how tometer battery based, grid tied inverters. 

The form 12s meter (recommended by Outback) is designed for 120/208 3phase so 
it is expecting to see 120º of phase difference between thetwo legs rather than 
180º,and being analog meters use the same core for both meter coils, thephysics 
of this would suggest even an analog meter will not accuratelyread net power 
produced (but it will probably be only 1 or 2% off). 

The best way to accomplish this is with a digital, form 12s meter. Now,not any 
old form 12s meter will work (sigh). These meters come in threevarieties: 

1- The most common default configuration is cumulative read. This will NOTwork. 
2- The other two configurations are net register or 
3- dual register


Both of these (2  3 above) will work, although net register willdo the 
calculations for you and dual register (sometimes called dualfunction) will 
leave you with separate buy and sell totals that willneed to be manually added 
together at the end of each billing cycle.

As far as I now know this is accurate information, but I have severalmeters 
coming that I am going to test out to confirm the above details.Hopefully 
Outback will annotate this on their green tag meter pdf.

[http://www.outbackpower.com/pdfs_general/Form%2012S%20Green-Tag%20meter.pdf] 
http://www.outbackpower.com/pdfs_general/Form%2012S%20Green-Tag%20meter.pdf

Todd



Ian Woofenden, Home Power wrote:
  
Hi Randy and Todd,  
  
Andy has actually changed jobs, and the new contact at PSE is:  
  
  Jake Wade  [mailto:jake.w...@pse.com] jake.w...@pse.com
Green Power Program Implementer
425-462-3459

Best,  
  
Ian  
  
  Todd,

The latest contact I have for Puget Sound Energy, RE program, is:

Andy Hemstreet
Program Implementer,
Renewables and Green Power
Puget Sound Energy
Office - 425 456-2633
[mailto:andrew.hemstr...@pse.com] andrew.hemstr...@pse.com

Randy Brooks
Brooks Solar, Inc.
Solar Power for People
140 Columbia View
Chelan, WA  98816
509-682-9646
[mailto:i...@brookssolar.com] i...@brookssolar.com
[http://www.brookssolar.com/] www.BrooksSolar.com

On Jun 30, 2007, at 8:58 AM, Todd Cory, Mt. Shasta Energy Serviceswrote:


Kelly and others interested in this,  
  
Yes form 12s meters and sockets have 5 terminals.  
  
I am going to do some more testing on this next week, but it appears  
only analog meters will work with the Outback directions. If you wantto  
use a digital meter, it needs to be configured to net register. This  
should be clarified on the Outback green tag metering diagram.  
  
Who is your contact at PSE? I'd like to ask them what kind oftweaking  
they do to get the digital meters to work correctly.  
  
Todd  
  
  
Randy Brooks wrote:  
  

Todd,

One thing the OutBack diagram does not mention is that the meter base
requires an additional neutral socket for the 5th meter leg.  If you
meter base does not have one, that may be the problem.  You can get a
5th socket adapter for your meter base from the meter supplier too.

take care,

Randy Brooks
Brooks Solar, Inc.
Solar Power for People
140 Columbia View
Chelan, WA  98816
509-682-9646
[mailto:i...@brookssolar.com] i...@brookssolar.com


On Thursday, January 28, 2010 12:57pm, g...@arp-solar.com said:


 I am using an analog GE kwh meter on an outback system with battery backup to 
a protected loads panel.  The AC in to the inverter is attached to the bottom 
of one leg of the meter and the AC out of the inverter is connected to the top 
of the other leg. This should give me an accurate record of just the production 
from the system. The idea is that the AC IN that will power the protected loads 
panel at night will come in the bottom of one leg and turn the meter backwards 
then exit through the top of the meter going forward thus cancelling those kwh. 
out. I have a neutral hooked to the meter because I am using it to record 120V 
but I am not getting accurate readings with this configuration. Any suggestions 
on metering in this case? I need a utility grade kwh meter.  
 
Gary Easton
NABCEP Certified Solar PV
NABCEP Certified Solar Thermal 
APPALACHIAN RENEWABLE POWER LTD.
Stewart, Ohio 
740-277-8498

“I'd put my money on solar energy… I hope we don't have to wait 'til oil and 
coal run out before we tackle that.”

—Thomas Edison, in conversation with Henry Ford and Harvey Firestone, March 1931


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Re: [RE-wrenches] Outback manuals in German or French

2010-01-28 Thread Jason Lerner

Hi Ron,

Outback has many manuals on their website:  resources/documents/ 
manuals/inverters written is Spanish.  There is even an MX60 manual in  
Dutch, BEWAHREN SIE DIESE ANLEITUNG AUF


Best,

Jason Lerner
Waldron Power and Light Co.

On Jan 27, 2010, at 9:39 PM, Ron Young wrote:


Hi Wrenches,

Does anyone know of a source for Outback manuals (Mate  VFX) in  
German or French? I have a customer who is having a great deal of  
difficulty comprehending the operation of her system and has asked.  
I checked with Outback and much to my surprise they don't even  
publish in Spanish but I thought there might be some third party  
info out there.



Ron Young
earthRight Products - Solareagle.com
Alternative Energy Solutions ~ Renewable Energy Products
1-877-925-2929

email: sa...@solareagle.com
http://www.solareagle.com
79F North Third Ave
Williams Lake, BC
V2G 2A3

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Re: [RE-wrenches] Outback manuals in German or French

2010-01-28 Thread Ron Young
Wow, thanks Jason, I both phoned and emailed and got the answer that  
no manuals were available in any other language. BTW, Deutsch is  
German not Dutch. But the only manual available is for the MX60 and  
what I need is the Mate. If there's one I bet there's others...maybe  
someone knows??


Ron

On 28-Jan-10, at 5:11 PM, Jason Lerner wrote:


Hi Ron,

Outback has many manuals on their website:  resources/documents/ 
manuals/inverters written is Spanish.  There is even an MX60 manual  
in Dutch, BEWAHREN SIE DIESE ANLEITUNG AUF


Best,

Jason Lerner
Waldron Power and Light Co.

On Jan 27, 2010, at 9:39 PM, Ron Young wrote:


Hi Wrenches,

Does anyone know of a source for Outback manuals (Mate  VFX) in  
German or French? I have a customer who is having a great deal of  
difficulty comprehending the operation of her system and has  
asked. I checked with Outback and much to my surprise they don't  
even publish in Spanish but I thought there might be some third  
party info out there.



Ron Young
earthRight Products - Solareagle.com
Alternative Energy Solutions ~ Renewable Energy Products
1-877-925-2929

email: sa...@solareagle.com
http://www.solareagle.com
79F North Third Ave
Williams Lake, BC
V2G 2A3

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[RE-wrenches] Dankoff Solar Pumps REVIVED by Innovative Solar Solutions

2010-01-28 Thread Windy Dankoff

Off-grid Wrenches,

You probably know that Innovative Solar Solutions has purchased
Conergy's solar water pumping division, previously known as Dankoff
Solar Pumps. More info is at:
http://www.innovativesolar.com/

They are using the Dankoff name again to identify the pump products,
and even dusted of the old logo! They expect to be shipping products
this coming week from the same Santa Fe facility, with the same
production staff. I'm REALLY happy about this!

They have extensive international experience with sales and
applications of the Dankoff pumps, and have a fine reputation.
I've met personally with both Erik and Lynn and I am impressed with
their competence and their good attitudes.  As daddy and former guru,
I give them my blessing!

I'm serving as a consultant to Innovative Solar to support the
transition. I will be active on this list again, along with staff of
Innovative Solar, until a satisfying transition is complete.

And finally, I hope to see you at the Midwest Renewable Energy Fair in
June!

To set up an account with Innovative Solar,
call (866) 856-9819 or
email sa...@innovativesolar.com

Your humble,
Windy Dankoff
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Re: [RE-wrenches] kwh meters

2010-01-28 Thread Allan Sindelar
Title: Re: [RE-wrenches] kwh meters




The 12-S approach in the Solar Pro article only works with 120V
inverter systems. I am facing a similar issue with our first XW system,
which was chosen for this application because it's the only GTWB
120/240V single inverter unit. We also currently have a REC program as
well as net metering. How can I make this work?
Thank you.








 
 

Re: [RE-wrenches] kwh meters

2010-01-28 Thread Todd Cory
Title: Re: [RE-wrenches] kwh meters




You will have to put a meter on each
120 volt leg... just like on a dual outback system.

Todd


Allan Sindelar wrote:

  
The 12-S approach in the Solar Pro article only works with 120V
inverter systems. I am facing a similar issue with our first XW system,
which was chosen for this application because it's the only GTWB
120/240V single inverter unit. We also currently have a REC program as
well as net metering. How can I make this work?
Thank you.
  
  
  
  
  
  
  

   
  
  
  
  Allan Sindelar
  Allan@positiveenergysolar.com
NABCEP Certified Photovoltaic Installer
EE98J Journeyman Electrician
  Positive Energy, Inc.
3201 Calle Marie
Santa Fe, New Mexico 87507
  505 424-1112
  www.positiveenergysolar.com
  
  
  
  
David Brearley wrote:
  

Is it a Form 12-S meter? If not, thats the
reason its not working. Heres an article you can refer to:

http://solarprofessional.com/article/?file=SP1_1_pg16_QandA_3search=

David Brearley, Senior Technical Editor
SolarPro magazine 
NABCEP Certified PV Installer 
david.brear...@solarprofessional.com
Direct: 541.261.6545



On 1/28/10 2:57 PM, "g...@arp-solar.com"
g...@arp-solar.com
wrote:


 I am using an analog GE kwh meter on an
outback system with battery backup to a protected loads panel. The AC
in to the inverter is attached to the bottom of one leg of the meter
and the AC out of the inverter is connected to the top of the other
leg. This should give me an accurate record of just the production from
the system. The idea is that the AC IN that will power the protected
loads panel at night will come in the bottom of one leg and turn the
meter backwards then exit through the top of the meter going forward
thus cancelling those kwh. out. I have a neutral hooked to the meter
because I am using it to record 120V but I am not getting accurate
readings with this configuration. Any suggestions on metering in this
case? I need a utility grade kwh meter. 

Gary Easton
NABCEP Certified Solar PV
NABCEP Certified Solar Thermal 
APPALACHIAN RENEWABLE POWER LTD.
Stewart, Ohio 
740-277-8498
  
I'd put my money on solar energy I hope we don't have to wait 'til
oil and coal run out before we tackle that.
  
Thomas Edison, in conversation with Henry Ford and Harvey Firestone,
March 1931
  
  
  
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Todd Cory



Todd Cory
KE6SXS
toddc...@finestplanet.com
Mt. Shasta Energy
Services
License
C-10 #811428
P.O.
Box 689
Mt.
Shasta, CA. 96067
(530)
926-1079

I'd put my money on solar energy...I hope we don't have to wait till oil and coal run out before we tackle that." 

Thomas Edison, in conversation with Henry Ford and Harvey Firestone,
March 1931





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Re: [RE-wrenches] Dankoff Solar Pumps REVIVED by Innovative Solar Solutions

2010-01-28 Thread Brian Teitelbaum
Hey Windy!

Congratulations to a proud Papa.

I'm thrilled, not only because these fine pumps will be back on the market, but 
that a fine brand name was revived.

Three Cheers to Innovative Solar!

Brian Teitelbaum
AEE Solar

From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org 
[mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of Windy Dankoff
Sent: Thursday, January 28, 2010 7:33 PM
To: re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org
Subject: [RE-wrenches] Dankoff Solar Pumps REVIVED by Innovative Solar Solutions

Off-grid Wrenches,

You probably know that Innovative Solar Solutions has purchased
Conergy's solar water pumping division, previously known as Dankoff
Solar Pumps. More info is at:
http://www.innovativesolar.com/

They are using the Dankoff name again to identify the pump products,
and even dusted of the old logo! They expect to be shipping products
this coming week from the same Santa Fe facility, with the same
production staff. I'm REALLY happy about this!

They have extensive international experience with sales and
applications of the Dankoff pumps, and have a fine reputation.
I've met personally with both Erik and Lynn and I am impressed with
their competence and their good attitudes.  As daddy and former guru,
I give them my blessing!

I'm serving as a consultant to Innovative Solar to support the
transition. I will be active on this list again, along with staff of
Innovative Solar, until a satisfying transition is complete.

And finally, I hope to see you at the Midwest Renewable Energy Fair in
June!

To set up an account with Innovative Solar,
call (866) 856-9819 or
email sa...@innovativesolar.commailto:sa...@innovativesolar.com

Your humble,
Windy Dankoff
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