Re: [RE-wrenches] Ideal platform for flooded type batteries: opinions wanted
Mick, Radiant Solar Technologies makes HDPE battery enclosures. They're vented on the sides and have a top vent for directing H2 out. They're deep enough to fully contain the acid from a fractured battery. http://www.radiantsolartech.com/batteryboxes.html I'm using two of their enclosures in my solar trailer and find them very satisfactory. Dan --- On Fri, 4/30/10, Mick Abraham m...@abrahamsolar.com wrote: From: Mick Abraham m...@abrahamsolar.com Subject: [RE-wrenches] Ideal platform for flooded type batteries: opinions wanted To: RE-wrenches re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Date: Friday, April 30, 2010, 10:21 AM Hi, Mechanix~ My customer du monde has a dirt floor in the battery space but he's willing to build something on which we could place his wet type batteries. Concrete is strong but it also tends to begin dissolving when battery acid gets on it. Been there, seen that, didn't like it. Wood could be strong but what about the dissolving problem? Would pressure treated wood be better than white wood, redwood etc.? OR: what else would the group advise for a support structure? The above questions assume that whatever we do will probably get wet, but that may be too pessimistic. Could someone give me a mini-review of plastic trays which would protect whatever goes beneath? I'm pretty sure polypropylene is the right type plastic but short of custom welding by a plastic fabricator...where can I find trays which fit OK with floor scrubber type battery case dimensions? Thanks all around, Mick Abraham, Proprietor www.abrahamsolar.com Voice: 970-731-4675 -Inline Attachment Follows- ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Ideal platform for flooded type batteries: opinionswanted
Mick if you are near a pretty thick edition of the yellow pages, you should be able to find a listing for someone who does plastic vacuum molding or prototype molding. The vacuum mold system is perfect for large non-critically dimensioned and low production custom pieces of plastic. The mold core will be made of wood and shaped like the inside of the battery tray. A sheet of plastic is heated then lowered onto the core and a vacuum pump will draw the plastic tight over the core. A basic tray, or several smaller trays for pairs of cells can be made up pretty inexpensively this way. If it is a size battery type you install often you could probably get a better price for multiple pieces. Here's a shot of a rather sophisticated production vacuum forming machine at work. Smaller shops may have older machines but your needs are not critical. Just be sure to specify the correct type of plactic that will be acid resistant. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WL-h0HAcdFAfeature=related Jim Duncan North Texas Renewable Energy 486 W.N. Woody Road Azle Texas 76020 Since 1993 nt...@1scom.net 817.917.0527 www.ntrei.com NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installer No.31310-57 *** -Original Message- From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org]on Behalf Of Mick Abraham Sent: Friday, April 30, 2010 10:22 AM To: RE-wrenches Subject: [RE-wrenches] Ideal platform for flooded type batteries: opinionswanted Hi, Mechanix~ My customer du monde has a dirt floor in the battery space but he's willing to build something on which we could place his wet type batteries. Concrete is strong but it also tends to begin dissolving when battery acid gets on it. Been there, seen that, didn't like it. Wood could be strong but what about the dissolving problem? Would pressure treated wood be better than white wood, redwood etc.? OR: what else would the group advise for a support structure? The above questions assume that whatever we do will probably get wet, but that may be too pessimistic. Could someone give me a mini-review of plastic trays which would protect whatever goes beneath? I'm pretty sure polypropylene is the right type plastic but short of custom welding by a plastic fabricator...where can I find trays which fit OK with floor scrubber type battery case dimensions? Thanks all around, Mick Abraham, Proprietor www.abrahamsolar.com Voice: 970-731-4675 attachment: North Texas Renewable Energy Inc.vcf___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Ideal platform for flooded type batteries: opinions wanted
Mick, The boxes from Radiant Technology are very nice. For four L16 batteries or golf cart batteries the Contico Pro Tuff Bin from Lowes works really well, is very durable, and an excellent value. If building a box out of plywood, the bottom should be acid resistance such as fiber-glass resin or heavy polyethylene pond liner on the bottom and up the sides 4 to 6 inches. Kent Osterberg Blue Mountain Solar Mick Abraham wrote: Hi, Mechanix~ My "customer du monde" has a dirt floor in the battery space but he's willing to build something on which we could place his "wet" type batteries. Concrete is strong but it also tends to begin dissolving when battery acid gets on it. Been there, seen that, didn't like it. Wood could be strong but what about the dissolving problem? Would pressure treated wood be better than white wood, redwood etc.? OR: what else would the group advise for a support structure? The above questions assume that whatever we do will probably get wet, but that may be too pessimistic. Could someone give me a mini-review of plastic trays which would protect whatever goes beneath? I'm pretty sure polypropylene is the right type plastic but short of custom welding by a plastic fabricator...where can I find trays which fit OK with floor scrubber type battery case dimensions? Thanks all around, Mick Abraham, Proprietor www.abrahamsolar.com Voice: 970-731-4675 ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.814 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2838 - Release Date: 04/26/10 23:27:00 ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Ideal platform for flooded type batteries: opinions wanted
I haven't seen a problem with concrete, but wood definitely rots out when exposed to acid, including pressure treated. (Saw a system with Battery shelving made from wood where the top shelf collapsed from acid rot..) Acid also eats foam board, unsticks silicon seal, and gets under and dissolves the spray-on bed liner ( our last attempt at corrosion protection) I worked on one system with a simple lining made of heavy plastic sheeting, that actually contained long term several gallons of acid from a set of cracked L16s. The plastic options mentioned would probably be good, if they're not too expensive. I've had the plastic tubs crack from the battery weight though. Since HUPS come in a powder coated heavy plate steel container that hold any spills if the inner liner is damaged, I haven't tried to exceed the manufacturer's efforts. (although, we recently had an inspector require us to ground all the cases, but there was no grounding point provided) R. Walters r...@solarray.com Solar Engineer On Apr 30, 2010, at 9:21 AM, Mick Abraham wrote: Hi, Mechanix~ My customer du monde has a dirt floor in the battery space but he's willing to build something on which we could place his wet type batteries. Concrete is strong but it also tends to begin dissolving when battery acid gets on it. Been there, seen that, didn't like it. Wood could be strong but what about the dissolving problem? Would pressure treated wood be better than white wood, redwood etc.? OR: what else would the group advise for a support structure? The above questions assume that whatever we do will probably get wet, but that may be too pessimistic. Could someone give me a mini-review of plastic trays which would protect whatever goes beneath? I'm pretty sure polypropylene is the right type plastic but short of custom welding by a plastic fabricator...where can I find trays which fit OK with floor scrubber type battery case dimensions? Thanks all around, Mick Abraham, Proprietor www.abrahamsolar.com Voice: 970-731-4675 ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Ideal platform for flooded type batteries: opinions wanted
Ray, I haven't installed any HUP batteries in several years so my info may be out of date but the steel case on the older HUP batteries had drain holes on the bottom. Kent Osterberg Blue Mountain Solar, Inc. R Ray Walters wrote: I haven't seen a problem with concrete, but wood definitely rots out when exposed to acid, including pressure treated. (Saw a system with Battery shelving made from wood where the top shelf collapsed from acid rot..) Acid also eats foam board, unsticks silicon seal, and gets under and dissolves the spray-on bed liner ( our last attempt at corrosion protection) I worked on one system with a simple lining made of heavy plastic sheeting, that actually contained long term several gallons of acid from a set of cracked L16s. The plastic options mentioned would probably be good, if they're not too expensive. I've had the plastic tubs crack from the battery weight though. Since HUPS come in a powder coated heavy plate steel container that hold any spills if the inner liner is damaged, I haven't tried to exceed the manufacturer's efforts. (although, we recently had an inspector require us to ground all the cases, but there was no grounding point provided) R. Walters r...@solarray.com Solar Engineer On Apr 30, 2010, at 9:21 AM, Mick Abraham wrote: Hi, Mechanix~ My "customer du monde" has a dirt floor in the battery space but he's willing to build something on which we could place his "wet" type batteries. Concrete is strong but it also tends to begin dissolving when battery acid gets on it. Been there, seen that, didn't like it. Wood could be strong but what about the dissolving problem? Would pressure treated wood be better than white wood, redwood etc.? OR: what else would the group advise for a support structure? The above questions assume that whatever we do will probably get wet, but that may be too pessimistic. Could someone give me a mini-review of plastic trays which would protect whatever goes beneath? I'm pretty sure polypropylene is the right type plastic but short of custom welding by a plastic fabricator...where can I find trays which fit OK with floor scrubber type battery case dimensions? Thanks all around, Mick Abraham, Proprietor www.abrahamsolar.com Voice: 970-731-4675 ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.814 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2845 - Release Date: 04/30/10 04:34:00 ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Ideal platform for flooded type batteries: opinions wanted
We had a HUP cell freeze and crack once, and it didn't leak out. I just double checked with Northwest Energy Storage, and they confirmed that the steel casing will contain a spill, and doesn't have drain holes. They said that in one case, a customer overfilled the batteries, and that the casing actually held several gal.s of overflow. Also, I mentioned previously that the casing was powder coated, its actually an epoxy coating. R. Walters r...@solarray.com Solar Engineer On Apr 30, 2010, at 11:06 AM, Kent Osterberg wrote: Ray, I haven't installed any HUP batteries in several years so my info may be out of date but the steel case on the older HUP batteries had drain holes on the bottom. Kent Osterberg Blue Mountain Solar, Inc. R Ray Walters wrote: I haven't seen a problem with concrete, but wood definitely rots out when exposed to acid, including pressure treated. (Saw a system with Battery shelving made from wood where the top shelf collapsed from acid rot..) Acid also eats foam board, unsticks silicon seal, and gets under and dissolves the spray-on bed liner ( our last attempt at corrosion protection) I worked on one system with a simple lining made of heavy plastic sheeting, that actually contained long term several gallons of acid from a set of cracked L16s. The plastic options mentioned would probably be good, if they're not too expensive. I've had the plastic tubs crack from the battery weight though. Since HUPS come in a powder coated heavy plate steel container that hold any spills if the inner liner is damaged, I haven't tried to exceed the manufacturer's efforts. (although, we recently had an inspector require us to ground all the cases, but there was no grounding point provided) R. Walters r...@solarray.com Solar Engineer On Apr 30, 2010, at 9:21 AM, Mick Abraham wrote: Hi, Mechanix~ My customer du monde has a dirt floor in the battery space but he's willing to build something on which we could place his wet type batteries. Concrete is strong but it also tends to begin dissolving when battery acid gets on it. Been there, seen that, didn't like it. Wood could be strong but what about the dissolving problem? Would pressure treated wood be better than white wood, redwood etc.? OR: what else would the group advise for a support structure? The above questions assume that whatever we do will probably get wet, but that may be too pessimistic. Could someone give me a mini-review of plastic trays which would protect whatever goes beneath? I'm pretty sure polypropylene is the right type plastic but short of custom welding by a plastic fabricator...where can I find trays which fit OK with floor scrubber type battery case dimensions? Thanks all around, Mick Abraham, Proprietor www.abrahamsolar.com Voice: 970-731-4675 ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.814 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2845 - Release Date: 04/30/10 04:34:00 ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
[RE-wrenches] looking for Enphase
As in Enphase 190s, S11 version, with the MC3 connectors. As in about 100 of 'em. Anyone have any suggested sources? Thanks, marco ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] FM60/rectifier
Funny, I was just considering this to create an AC battery charger that could be used for different battery voltages. I have a couple of small electric vehicles that have 12, 24, 36, or 48 v packs depending on fast I want to let the kids go. I only need about 3 amps output (150 watt max) Any other ideas on small AC battery chargers with multiple voltage output? Everything I've found is both expensive and much higher amperage than needed. R. Walters r...@solarray.com Solar Engineer On Apr 27, 2010, at 7:15 AM, Darryl Thayer wrote: Hi what you are referring to is sometimes called the DT Kluge. I have used it in a couple of ways. The original reason was to use a small, 120 volt, low quality generator to act as an emergency charging scheme for an Outback Bimodal system. (Grid tied where they were having frequent outages and some times of longer duration). I have also used this configuration on small standalone. I have had good luck with this arrangment, but it is limited, and I have never approached the 3000 watt limit of the MX60 (all of my installations used the MX60 and I have never used the FM series on this connection, however it should work). The advantage is the battery charge regulation is still quite good as it uses the MX/FM control scheme and even the FNDC can be used, to control this charging. If you want to use up to the 6000 watts of the generator, you will need, at least, two charge controllers and two sets of full wave rectifiers, and possibly two transformers. I have never used the full capacity of the MX in this circuit, typically the limit I use is about 30 amps at 48 volts or about 1500 Watts. However I have never pushed the limit. (becarefull), (I have tripped a 30 amp(120v) breaker while charging at less than 20 amps 120 volts, I think this is due to the heating from a rectified sine wave) So it is not so obvious what is happening here.The limit I useof the I will have to send you the diagram, but here is the circuit description as I have used it: The 120 volt output of the generator is sent through an Outback Auto transformer, changing it to 60 volts AC. Then the full wave rectfied sgnal of about 85 volts peak, is connected to a MX60 or FM?? and the output connected as usually done to the battery set. Follow the usual small generator grounding rules. BTW you can still use the MX to charge from the solar array. DT --- On Tue, 4/27/10, Mendocino Solar Service mso...@mcn.org wrote: From: Mendocino Solar Service mso...@mcn.org Subject: [RE-wrenches] FM60/rectifier for gen charging To: RE-wrenches re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Date: Tuesday, April 27, 2010, 12:32 AM Hi Wrenches, If I may, I'd like to forward this from a Wrench formerly on the list, now semi-retired: I know this subject has been discussed, but I couldn't find the archive. I'd like to know pros and cons of using the Outback FM 60 or FM 80 as a charger - using a 7000 watt (6000 prime) generator as the power source. If I use a 6000w step down transformer, can I get all 6000 watts (3000 watts per leg) into one rectifier? If not, I guess I will need two FM 60 or FM 80's ( one for each leg of the generator). I'm not sure a 6000 watt step down transformer is still available. I would like to have a parts list, and a source for the parts. A wiring diagram would also be helpful. Thanks, Eric Bruce Erickson Mendocino Solar Service PO Box 1252 Mendocino, CA 95460 707-937-1701 ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
