[RE-wrenches] FSEC Approval Required for Permit?
Hi Wrenches, Has anyone dealt with a jurisdiction that requires FSEC or similar system approval as a prerequisite for obtaining a PV permit? Although we have installed many systems in a particular jurisdiction in our area, they just rejected a permit application because we do not have an FSEC system certification on this system (24 Enphase microinverters). We are having a hard time getting them to explain from where the requirement came. It seems like a nonsense roadblock to me. I can't imagine what purpose an FSEC certification would serve in the case of microinverters. As long as you are using a module on Enphase's compatibility list and the module itself has FSEC certification, can you think of any logical reason to jump through this hoop? On that note, I contacted FSEC to see what it would require to certify Enphase microinverter systems. They are telling me that we would have to apply for one system, and then apply for similar systems if the number of inverters changes. That doesn't make any sense to me. Are we supposed to submit applications for 1, 2, 3...50...150 module systems? I doubt they have time to deal with the paperwork for hundreds of similar system applications. Imagine dropping 200 similar system applications in their inbox to cover all quantities of microinverters. Jason Szumlanski Fafco Solar Cape Coral, FL ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] FSEC Approval Required for Permit?
You might consider joining / soliciting Solar Tech to help you fight this battle. http://solartech.org/ -Chris Anderson Chief Technology Officer Resources Group C: 603-732-2411 Borrego Solar Systems -Original Message- From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of Jason Szumlanski Sent: Thursday, June 03, 2010 9:57 AM To: re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Subject: [RE-wrenches] FSEC Approval Required for Permit? Hi Wrenches, Has anyone dealt with a jurisdiction that requires FSEC or similar system approval as a prerequisite for obtaining a PV permit? Although we have installed many systems in a particular jurisdiction in our area, they just rejected a permit application because we do not have an FSEC system certification on this system (24 Enphase microinverters). We are having a hard time getting them to explain from where the requirement came. It seems like a nonsense roadblock to me. I can't imagine what purpose an FSEC certification would serve in the case of microinverters. As long as you are using a module on Enphase's compatibility list and the module itself has FSEC certification, can you think of any logical reason to jump through this hoop? On that note, I contacted FSEC to see what it would require to certify Enphase microinverter systems. They are telling me that we would have to apply for one system, and then apply for similar systems if the number of inverters changes. That doesn't make any sense to me. Are we supposed to submit applications for 1, 2, 3...50...150 module systems? I doubt they have time to deal with the paperwork for hundreds of similar system applications. Imagine dropping 200 similar system applications in their inbox to cover all quantities of microinverters. Jason Szumlanski Fafco Solar Cape Coral, FL ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] FSEC Approval Required for Permit?
Jason, I'm only familiar with this because a distributor I worked for went through the process of having their PV kits approved by FSEC. This was 6 years ago, so the requirement has been around for a while. This prerequisite never really made sense to me, for precisely the reason you point out. Changes in both market conditions and product lines means that the designs we use are constantly changing, plus roofs vary. I was never big on the kit concept for this very reason. But I suppose kits make a lot of sense if some central authority has to pre-approve an entire bill of materials. Microinverters are great for kits. If you're going to send per microinverter applications to FSEC, don't forget to send applications for every module you work with. In fact, send applications for every Enphase-compatible module. That'll keep them busy. Since the manufacturers revise their specs every year, you can send the whole package back to FSEC in another 12 months. (FSEC recently had a 2-year backlog to certify solar thermal collectors, so it could be worse.) The recommendation to engage SolarTech is a good one. Their goal is to remove unnecessary market barriers. You might also want to join you're state SEIA chapter and work to develop and implement more scalable quality control measures for the PV industry, jurisdictions and inspectors in Florida. I understand that there is a centralized body of knowledge at FSEC, but arguably a decentralized review process will better serve everyone in the long run. Best, David Brearley, Senior Technical Editor SolarPro magazine NABCEP Certified PV Installer On 6/3/10 8:57 AM, Jason Szumlanski ja...@fafcosolar.com wrote: Hi Wrenches, Has anyone dealt with a jurisdiction that requires FSEC or similar system approval as a prerequisite for obtaining a PV permit? Although we have installed many systems in a particular jurisdiction in our area, they just rejected a permit application because we do not have an FSEC system certification on this system (24 Enphase microinverters). We are having a hard time getting them to explain from where the requirement came. It seems like a nonsense roadblock to me. I can't imagine what purpose an FSEC certification would serve in the case of microinverters. As long as you are using a module on Enphase's compatibility list and the module itself has FSEC certification, can you think of any logical reason to jump through this hoop? On that note, I contacted FSEC to see what it would require to certify Enphase microinverter systems. They are telling me that we would have to apply for one system, and then apply for similar systems if the number of inverters changes. That doesn't make any sense to me. Are we supposed to submit applications for 1, 2, 3...50...150 module systems? I doubt they have time to deal with the paperwork for hundreds of similar system applications. Imagine dropping 200 similar system applications in their inbox to cover all quantities of microinverters. Jason Szumlanski Fafco Solar Cape Coral, FL ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] FSEC Approval Required for Permit?
Hello Jason, I got the first FSEC BIPV certification. The paperwork was time-consuming, but the FSEC people were reasonable. Getting FSEC certification is like getting UL, IEC, CSI, etc. certification. It's the price of admission to get you and your product in the game. Superior Solar, Solartek, etc. already have certified Enphase in combination with various solar modules. Sun Electronics has paid its dues and has multiple system certifications. Also Enphase has worked with FSEC. See http://www1.eere.energy.gov/solar/pdfs/segis_winners_2008.pdf I encourage you to get Enphase to support your effort to expand the use of their product. Joel Davidson - Original Message - From: Jason Szumlanski ja...@fafcosolar.com To: re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Sent: Thursday, June 03, 2010 6:57 AM Subject: [RE-wrenches] FSEC Approval Required for Permit? Hi Wrenches, Has anyone dealt with a jurisdiction that requires FSEC or similar system approval as a prerequisite for obtaining a PV permit? Although we have installed many systems in a particular jurisdiction in our area, they just rejected a permit application because we do not have an FSEC system certification on this system (24 Enphase microinverters). We are having a hard time getting them to explain from where the requirement came. It seems like a nonsense roadblock to me. I can't imagine what purpose an FSEC certification would serve in the case of microinverters. As long as you are using a module on Enphase's compatibility list and the module itself has FSEC certification, can you think of any logical reason to jump through this hoop? On that note, I contacted FSEC to see what it would require to certify Enphase microinverter systems. They are telling me that we would have to apply for one system, and then apply for similar systems if the number of inverters changes. That doesn't make any sense to me. Are we supposed to submit applications for 1, 2, 3...50...150 module systems? I doubt they have time to deal with the paperwork for hundreds of similar system applications. Imagine dropping 200 similar system applications in their inbox to cover all quantities of microinverters. Jason Szumlanski Fafco Solar Cape Coral, FL ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Mage Solar
Those panels on the web page look like the Solar World that I am presently installing. Bob Ellison From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of Drake Chamberlin Sent: Wednesday, June 02, 2010 11:19 PM To: RE-wrenches Subject: [RE-wrenches] Mage Solar Hello Wrenches, Who has tried Mage solar modules? http://www.magesolar.com/us/products/mono-and-polycrystalline-modules.html http://www.magesolar.com/us/products/mono-and-polycrystalline-modules.html They look really good with a 30 year power warranty, a 10 year product warranty and +5% tolerance. Does anyone have hands on experience with these products? Is it a reliable company? -TIA Drake Chamberlin Athens Electric OH License 44810 CO License 3773 NABCEP TM Certified PV Installer Office - 740-448-7328 Mobile - 740-856-9648 ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] FSEC Approval Required for Permit?
Jason, I don't believe that you're working with correct information and I'm not sure who you spoke with here at FSEC. Please contact me offlist so we can discuss this further. Also, we'd be pretty excited to learn that you were installing 200 systems in the state. Carry on! Original Message Subject: [RE-wrenches] FSEC Approval Required for Permit? From: Jason Szumlanski ja...@fafcosolar.com To: re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Date: 2010/6/3 09:57 Hi Wrenches, Has anyone dealt with a jurisdiction that requires FSEC or similar system approval as a prerequisite for obtaining a PV permit? Although we have installed many systems in a particular jurisdiction in our area, they just rejected a permit application because we do not have an FSEC system certification on this system (24 Enphase microinverters). We are having a hard time getting them to explain from where the requirement came. It seems like a nonsense roadblock to me. I can't imagine what purpose an FSEC certification would serve in the case of microinverters. As long as you are using a module on Enphase's compatibility list and the module itself has FSEC certification, can you think of any logical reason to jump through this hoop? On that note, I contacted FSEC to see what it would require to certify Enphase microinverter systems. They are telling me that we would have to apply for one system, and then apply for similar systems if the number of inverters changes. That doesn't make any sense to me. Are we supposed to submit applications for 1, 2, 3...50...150 module systems? I doubt they have time to deal with the paperwork for hundreds of similar system applications. Imagine dropping 200 similar system applications in their inbox to cover all quantities of microinverters. Jason Szumlanski Fafco Solar Cape Coral, FL ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
[RE-wrenches] FSEC Approval Required for Permit?
Dave, I think you are missing the point. We are (unfortunately) not doing 200 system in the very near future, but if we are to be able to market PV to our customers, we can't sit in their living room and tell them that it's going to cost $X and X amount time to have a system certified for their specific roof and their specific number, brand, and wattage of module. Kits don't work in this business, and requiring certification for every conceivable combination of solar energy system is prohibitively time consuming and costly. We have never been required to give an FSEC system certification to obtain a permit. We have only been asked to provide module certification and component listing information, which I believe is reasonable and appropriate. I'll contact you off-list to discuss this particular situation and provide the name of the person who provided me the information. Jason Szumlanski Fafco Solar -Original Message- Message: 9 Date: Thu, 03 Jun 2010 13:09:45 -0400 From: Dave Click davecl...@fsec.ucf.edu To: RE-wrenches re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] FSEC Approval Required for Permit? Message-ID: 4c07e1d9.6080...@fsec.ucf.edu Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=ISO-8859-1 Jason, I don't believe that you're working with correct information and I'm not sure who you spoke with here at FSEC. Please contact me offlist so we can discuss this further. Also, we'd be pretty excited to learn that you were installing 200 systems in the state. Carry on! Original Message Subject: [RE-wrenches] FSEC Approval Required for Permit? From: Jason Szumlanski ja...@fafcosolar.com To: re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Date: 2010/6/3 09:57 Hi Wrenches, Has anyone dealt with a jurisdiction that requires FSEC or similar system approval as a prerequisite for obtaining a PV permit? Although we have installed many systems in a particular jurisdiction in our area, they just rejected a permit application because we do not have an FSEC system certification on this system (24 Enphase microinverters). We are having a hard time getting them to explain from where the requirement came. It seems like a nonsense roadblock to me. I can't imagine what purpose an FSEC certification would serve in the case of microinverters. As long as you are using a module on Enphase's compatibility list and the module itself has FSEC certification, can you think of any logical reason to jump through this hoop? On that note, I contacted FSEC to see what it would require to certify Enphase microinverter systems. They are telling me that we would have to apply for one system, and then apply for similar systems if the number of inverters changes. That doesn't make any sense to me. Are we supposed to submit applications for 1, 2, 3...50...150 module systems? I doubt they have time to deal with the paperwork for hundreds of similar system applications. Imagine dropping 200 similar system applications in their inbox to cover all quantities of microinverters. Jason Szumlanski Fafco Solar Cape Coral, FL ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
[RE-wrenches] Portable Solar Trailer w/ intermittent Ground Fault
As far as I know, you won't find a mobile listed inverter that can be grid tied (for the reason mentioned by Steve. I'm curious about how you are feeding a GFI breaker. I think the best you can (legally and safely) do with a mobile system is to power loads using a listed mobile inverter plugged into and A/C transfer switch inlet at the premises, as if the portable solar energy system is a portable generator. The utility and the AHJ would not allow a temporary grid-tied PV system. Any differing opinions? Jason Szumlanski Fafco Solar -Original Message- Date: Tue, 1 Jun 2010 11:59:01 -0700 From: Steve Higgins shigg...@outbackpower.com To: RE-wrenches re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Portable Solar Trailer w/ intermittent Ground Fault Message-ID: 8b410ba5e8e5bf49b7c591dcbf706add020be...@mail1.ob.local Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Wayne, That's because the GVFX3524 goes not provide any support for ground switching. If you install a Ground switching relay and isolate the input neutral from the output neutral bus's this will get rid of this problem... On a side note how did you get a utility (or have you) to approve a GT inverter on a mobile trailer? Steve Higgins. Sr Application Engineering Mgr Sub-Saharan Africa Business Dev Mgr. Outback Power Systems. 19009 62nd Ave Ne Arlington Wa 98223 360-618-4313 From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of Wayne Irwin Sent: Tuesday, June 01, 2010 9:30 AM To: Wrenches Subject: [RE-wrenches] Portable Solar Trailer w/ intermittent Ground Fault Hello Wrenches, We have a 2KW portable unit with one Outback GVFX3524. Intermittently, we have a problem feeding GFI breakers. Its the strangest thing, sometimes it trips GFI's and other times it doesn't. Aside from the possibility that some of the GFI's aren't wired properly we haven't been able to figure it out. We have it plugged into a GFI at the shop (which is wired properly) and there is no problem. I thought there was a previous string on this issue but could not find it in the archives. What do you recommend for grounding portable units and what recommendations do you have from personal experience? Thanks! Wayne Irwin Director of Engineering Pure Energy Solar International Inc. State Licensed Solar Contractor License # CVC56695 wa...@pureenergysolar.com mailto:pureenergyso...@hotmail.com http://pureenergysolar.com http://pureenergysolar.net/ 352 377-6527 Office 352 336-3299 Fax ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
[RE-wrenches] Solyndra
Anyone out there nave experience with these thin film cylindrical panels? Thanks. Kirk Herander Vermont Solar Engineering 802.863.1202 NABCEP(tm) Certified Solar Installer NYSERDA-eligible Installer VT Solar Incentive Program Partner ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
