Re: [RE-wrenches] Midnite Magnum E-Panel Unofficial Service Bulletin

[R Ray Walters]

I usually recommend retorqueing all connectors once the panel is mounted. 
Whether its an E-panel or one we built at the shop, those washboard roads can 
loosen stuff that would never have had a problem
otherwise. I'm actually surprised we haven't had more problems like this, even 
with internal wiring on inverters, etc.
Hours of vibration can do bad things to equipment not designed for it.
Having said all that, I too have grown probably too complacent, and forget to 
check connections, especially if its hard to get to, and the sun is going 
down.

R. Walters
r...@solarray.com
Solar Engineer




On Jul 24, 2010, at 1:27 PM, Allan Sindelar wrote:

> Wrenches, 
> In the past month we have encountered some assembly errors on preassembled 
> E-Panels using the Magnum MS4448PAE and MS4024AE inverters. Robin Gudgel has 
> become aware of the problems and has corrected them, but there may be other 
> Wrenches who have installed or plan to install these E-Panels and may be able 
> to correct the errors at installation. Robin has encouraged me to post this 
> here.
> 
> On all three E-Panels the same two problems were found. The first is that the 
> four signal wires (two twisted pairs) connected to the Magnum ME-BMK sending 
> unit for the remote display were loose enough to pull out. In one case this 
> prevented state-of-charge data from being accessible on the display. The 
> solution is simply to tighten the terminals, but as this is a preassembled 
> connection, checking tightness could be overlooked. The second is that the 
> white 14 awg DC - conductor from the preinstalled array GFDI is terminated at 
> the white AC neutral bus. It should be connected to the DC - bus on the 
> shunt. Moving this will require splicing in a few inches of #14 solid white 
> THHN, as the existing conductor is too short, but has a resistor lead 
> soldered to it, discouraging just replacing this wire with a longer piece.
> 
> It's a funny thing - it's easy to overlook these errors because we expect the 
> factory wiring to be correct. I missed these two errors, and so did an 
> experienced installer from our Taos branch who crewed with me on one of the 
> three installations. It took an inexperienced but very skilled apprentice on 
> his first day of his first installation to discover both problems and bring 
> them to my attention. I have worked with Eden, the apprentice, on other 
> projects, so I trusted him to terminate correctly in the E-Panel. Turns out 
> it was his fresh eyes that caught what we had overlooked because we hadn't 
> expected it.
> Allan
> -- 
> Allan Sindelar
> al...@positiveenergysolar.com
> NABCEP Certified Photovoltaic Installer
> EE98J Journeyman Electrician
> Positive Energy, Inc.
> 3201 Calle Marie
> Santa Fe, New Mexico 87507
> 505 424-1112
> www.positiveenergysolar.com
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Re: [RE-wrenches] wind scam?

[Darryl Thayer]

Roy is this not the same except fot the ridiges that Mick Sigrillo reported on 
in 2009 small wind conference, the same one that I had taken data on?  Mick 
reported at the rate of energy production it would take 1000 yrs to pay back.  
My data was equally bad
ST

--- On Sat, 7/24/10, Chris Daum  wrote:


From: Chris Daum 
Subject: [RE-wrenches] wind scam?
To: "'RE-wrenches'" 
Date: Saturday, July 24, 2010, 1:39 PM



With all the alleged information on their web site, I couldn't find any power 
curves.  And their "contact us" form was only for folks who had purchased their 
turbines.
 
Let the buyer beware!
 
Chris Daum
Oasis Montana Inc.



From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org 
[mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of Roy Butler
Sent: Saturday, July 24, 2010 11:39 AM
To: RE-wrenches
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] wind scam?


Todd,

We're still waiting for verifiable 3rd party energy production data on this 
turbine.
Until that happens, this turbine stays on my "not ready for prime time" list.
As of today, Helix has not seen fit to file a notice of intent to certify with 
the
SWCC. Keep an eye on that list and the eventual certified turbine list, both 
will
 be very helpful in the future for weeding out the scams.
www.smallwindcertification.org

"Revolutionary" may be a good description for kinetic lawn art but doesn't
tell us a thing about it's ability to produce kilowatt hours to the grid.

What is it about human nature that makes people believe that the weirder
the design, the better it must be? And that "breakthrough" technology is
the best technology?

Have fun with this customer!

Roy Butler
NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installer®
NYSERDA eligible PV & wind installer
PA Sunshine Program Approved PV Installer
Four Winds Renewable Energy, LLC
8902 Route 46
Arkport, NY 14807
607-324-9747

www.four-winds-energy.com

Although no trees were killed in the sending of this message, 
a large number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced.



On 7/24/2010 12:36 PM, Todd Cory wrote: 
Sorry to bother the list with this kind of BS, but I have a client who insists 
this is a revolutionary wind machine design that is not a yard art scam. 
Feedback?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q9flSPAdOLk
 
-Inline Attachment Follows-


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[RE-wrenches] Midnite Magnum E-Panel Unofficial Service Bulletin

[Allan Sindelar]

  
  
Wrenches, 
In the past month we have encountered some assembly errors on
preassembled E-Panels using the Magnum MS4448PAE and MS4024AE
inverters. Robin Gudgel has become aware of the problems and has
corrected them, but there may be other Wrenches who have installed
or plan to install these E-Panels and may be able to correct the
errors at installation. Robin has encouraged me to post this here.

On all three E-Panels the same two problems were found. The first is
that the four signal wires (two twisted pairs) connected to the
Magnum ME-BMK sending unit for the remote display were loose enough
to pull out. In one case this prevented state-of-charge data from
being accessible on the display. The solution is simply to tighten
the terminals, but as this is a preassembled connection, checking
tightness could be overlooked. The second is that the white 14 awg
DC - conductor from the preinstalled array GFDI is terminated at the
white AC neutral bus. It should be connected to the DC - bus on the
shunt. Moving this will require splicing in a few inches of #14
solid white THHN, as the existing conductor is too short, but has a
resistor lead soldered to it, discouraging just replacing this wire
with a longer piece.

It's a funny thing - it's easy to overlook these errors because we
expect the factory wiring to be correct. I missed these two errors,
and so did an experienced installer from our Taos branch who crewed
with me on one of the three installations. It took an inexperienced
but very skilled apprentice on his first day of his first
installation to discover both problems and bring them to my
attention. I have worked with Eden, the apprentice, on other
projects, so I trusted him to terminate correctly in the E-Panel.
Turns out it was his fresh eyes that caught what we had overlooked
because we hadn't expected it.
Allan
-- 
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
Allan Sindelar
Allan@positiveenergysolar.com
NABCEP Certified Photovoltaic Installer
EE98J Journeyman Electrician
Positive Energy, Inc.
3201 Calle Marie
Santa Fe, New Mexico 87507
505 424-1112
www.positiveenergysolar.com
  

  

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[RE-wrenches] wind scam?

[Chris Daum]

With all the alleged information on their web site, I couldn't find any
power curves.  And their "contact us" form was only for folks who had
purchased their turbines.
 
Let the buyer beware!
 
Chris Daum
Oasis Montana Inc.

  _  

From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org
[mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of Roy Butler
Sent: Saturday, July 24, 2010 11:39 AM
To: RE-wrenches
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] wind scam?


Todd,

We're still waiting for verifiable 3rd party energy production data on this
turbine.
Until that happens, this turbine stays on my "not ready for prime time"
list.
As of today, Helix has not seen fit to file a notice of intent to certify
with the
SWCC. Keep an eye on that list and the eventual certified turbine list, both
will
 be very helpful in the future for weeding out the scams.
www.smallwindcertification.org

"Revolutionary" may be a good description for kinetic lawn art but doesn't
tell us a thing about it's ability to produce kilowatt hours to the grid.

What is it about human nature that makes people believe that the weirder
the design, the better it must be? And that "breakthrough" technology is
the best technology?

Have fun with this customer!


Roy Butler

NABCEP Certified Solar PV InstallerR

NYSERDA eligible PV & wind installer

PA Sunshine Program Approved PV Installer

Four Winds Renewable Energy, LLC

8902 Route 46

Arkport, NY 14807

607-324-9747



www.four-winds-energy.com



Although no trees were killed in the sending of this message, 

a large number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced.





On 7/24/2010 12:36 PM, Todd Cory wrote: 

Sorry to bother the list with this kind of BS, but I have a client who
insists this is a revolutionary wind machine design that is not a yard art
scam. Feedback?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q9flSPAdOLk

 

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Re: [RE-wrenches] wind scam?

[Drake Chamberlin]

The design looks like a possibility.  Statements like "it can reduce 
your energy bill by half" put me off.  Home energy uses I've seen 
range from less that 200 kWh / mo to over 3000.  Half of what?  Does 
the helix catch enough wind to generate a lot of power?




At 12:36 PM 7/24/2010, you wrote:
Sorry to bother the list with this kind of BS, but I have a client 
who insists this is a revolutionary wind machine design that is not 
a yard art scam. Feedback?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q9flSPAdOLk
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Drake Chamberlin
Athens Electric
OH License 44810
CO License 3773
NABCEP TM  Certified PV Installer
Office - 740-448-7328
Mobile - 740-856-9648  ___
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Re: [RE-wrenches] wind scam?

[Bob-O Schultze]

Hiya Todd,
Well, your first clue is that in the video, it's installed about 10' off the 
deck.
The second is the claim that it can reduce your power bills by half. That is 
particularly interesting when one goes to the website and finds out that it 
doesn't even cut in until 11.1mph wind speed (most wind gennys start at about 
7mph) and the "optimal annual windspeed is 15.6mph! One of the windiest 
"Habitable" places I know of is the Falkland Islands off the coast of 
Argentina. Their average windspeed is about 18mph. It's so windy that trees 
don't grow there and there are no flying insects to speak of.
The baby Helix (2KW Max output by their measurements) has a top of tower weight 
of 300lbs and calls for a Sch 80 8" pipe for a mount. So... maybe not a scam 
exactly, but for most of us it's an expensive hunk of kinetic yard art.
cheers, bob-O



On Jul 24, 2010, at 9:36 AM, Todd Cory wrote:

Sorry to bother the list with this kind of BS, but I have a client who insists 
this is a revolutionary wind machine design that is not a yard art scam. 
Feedback?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q9flSPAdOLk
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Re: [RE-wrenches] wind scam?

[Roy Butler]

  
  
Todd,

We're still waiting for verifiable 3rd party energy production data
on this turbine.
Until that happens, this turbine stays on my "not ready for prime
time" list.
As of today, Helix has not seen fit to file a notice of intent to
certify with the
SWCC. Keep an eye on that list and the eventual certified turbine
list, both will
 be very helpful in the future for weeding out the scams.
www.smallwindcertification.org

"Revolutionary" may be a good description for kinetic lawn art but
doesn't
tell us a thing about it's ability to produce kilowatt hours to the
grid.

What is it about human nature that makes people believe that the
weirder
the design, the better it must be? And that "breakthrough"
technology is
the best technology?

Have fun with this customer!

Roy Butler
NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installer®
NYSERDA eligible PV & wind installer
PA Sunshine Program Approved PV Installer
Four Winds Renewable Energy, LLC
8902 Route 46
Arkport, NY 14807
607-324-9747

www.four-winds-energy.com

Although no trees were killed in the sending of this message, 
a large number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced.




On 7/24/2010 12:36 PM, Todd Cory wrote:

  
  Sorry to bother the list with this kind of BS, but I have a client
  who
  insists this is a revolutionary wind machine design that is not a
  yard
  art scam. Feedback?
  
  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q9flSPAdOLk
  

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[RE-wrenches] wind scam?

[Todd Cory]

Sorry to bother the list with this kind of BS, but I have a client who
insists this is a revolutionary wind machine design that is not a yard
art scam. Feedback?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q9flSPAdOLk


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