Re: [RE-wrenches] Lightning Protection System
David, Sounds like a perfect solution to me. The UL website lists 14 pages of Listed Installers for lightning protection, about 70% located in the Southeast, and the closest to WA State in Utah or SoCal. Do you recall the name of any such firm you liked to work with and were reasonable with their bids? It would be nice not to have to cold call from such a large list. Kelly Keilwitz, P.E. Whidbey Sun Wind Renewable Energy Systems 987 Wanamaker Rd. Coupeville, WA 98239 ke...@whidbeysunwind.com PH FAX: 360.678.7131 NABCEP Certified PV Installer WA Electrical Administrator On Aug 1, 2010, at 8:24 AM, David Brearley wrote: Kelly, When I came across language like this in an RFP, my assumption was that we needed to work with a specialty lightning protection subcontractor, a firm listed by UL. I would call them up, give them a project description and request a quote, which I would build into our cost estimate for the project. Included in their scope of work is providing a “UL Listed Lightning Protection Certificate.” You can include that scope of work as a line item in our proposal. If the proposal requires that you include resumes for key team members, you might also include the lightning company’s bio as it shows you’ve done your due diligence. On the projects that I managed in this fashion, the lightning protection company always came in after our construction was substantially complete. There may be cases where you want to coordinate the that scope of work differently and get them on site earlier. They should be able to tell you what will work best, based on the general project description and your specific equipment grounding scheme. David Brearley, Senior Technical Editor SolarPro magazine NABCEP Certified PV Installer ™ david.brear...@solarprofessional.com On 7/31/10 3:28 PM, Kelly Keilwitz, Whidbey Sun Wind ke...@whidbeysunwind.com wrote: Hi All, I'm working on the design for a PV Wind power system for a military installation. The specs call for Lightning Protection as follows: Provide a complete lightning protection system with a UL Lightning Protection Inspection Certificate. including, but not necessarily limited to, strike termination devices, conductors, ground terminals, interconnecting conductors, surge suppression devices, and other connectors and fittings required for a complete and usable system. Anyone have an idea of what qualifies? Is there a package product that has the UL Lightning Protection Inspection Certificate? Thanks, -Kelly Kelly Keilwitz, P.E. Whidbey Sun Wind Renewable Energy Systems NABCEP Certified PV Installer ke...@whidbeysunwind.com 360.678.7131 ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Trojan T-105 non-vented shipping caps?
Dump a goodly amount of baking soda on top of, and around the batteries. Be sure to keep it out of the electrolyte. The issue of pressure change from altitude makes the sealed cap idea not a good one. \At 05:26 PM 8/1/2010, you wrote: Bob's idea of strapping them together is good. We do the same thing to move batteries on horrible washboard roads, it definitely keeps them upright. Also, consider the altitude change in flight, as that could pressurize an unvented battery to dangerous levels. You definitely want to keep them vented. For as small a project as this is ( 2 batteries?) and with all the problems, I'd seriously consider sealed batteries in this instance. No spills, no maintenance, better freeze protection. (golf cart batteries don't normally get flown around by helicopter!) R. Walters r...@solarray.com Solar Engineer On Aug 1, 2010, at 1:47 PM, bob wrote: You might want to tie the batteries together with a ratchet strap. That will probably do a better job of keeping them from turning over more than if they are just single batteries. The plastic under the caps will probably keep the acid from spilling. But I would shake them to free any loose bubbles before I put the caps on, with or without the plastic. You could then just put them in a heavy plastic bag, and make the sign of the cross and hope for the best. Bob -Original Message- From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of Dan Fink Sent: Friday, July 30, 2010 10:54 AM To: RE-wrenches Subject: [RE-wrenches] Trojan T-105 non-vented shipping caps? Esteemed Wrenches; Hopefully Ronald from Trojan can help me here, or maybe someone else has done this. In my recent remote Northern BC install, we have a pair of T-105s at a remote location, installed in a plastic cooler. They will need to be moved to the central Lodge install for winter maintenance charging, as their installed location gets *zero* sun for 3 months of the winter. The lodge staff will be moving the cooler via helicopter*hopefully* on the back seat, but it may be part of a long-line sling load. They have had some pretty harrowing sling load work this year, including a broken skid on the helo and some trees that got a 'haircut.' I can almost guarantee that had the batteries been on that load, they would have lost some electrolyte from tipping. My question is -- are shipping caps with *no vent holes* available? Or could we use plastic baggies? I hate the idea of the lodge staff accidentally getting bits of plastic bag into the cells. DAN FINK Buckville Energy Consulting LLC http://www.buckville.com/ ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org Drake Chamberlin Athens Electric OH License 44810 CO License 3773 NABCEP TM Certified PV Installer Office - 740-448-7328 Mobile - 740-856-9648 ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Trojan T-105 non-vented shipping caps?
Dan, If you do decide to transport them in the aircraft cabin, make sure the pilot/dispatch/etc. knows that he is carrying flooded (wet) batteries and how they are secured and what kind of spill containment is in place. It's one thing for you to know the results of a spill and be willing to accept that responsibility for your own vehicle, its a totally different ballgame when someone else must accept that responsibility. That is one part of the principle behind hazardous materials transportation. Make no mistake, transporting flooded batteries is transporting hazardous materials. (Sulfuric acid and aluminum aircraft structure are not friends.) Interestingly, if the SLA battery case breaks, they then, too qualify as hazardous materials. (i.e., UPS delivers a shipment of SLA batteries, when you open the package one or more battery is case is cracked. The return trip (if financially justified), is (properly) made under a hazardous material label (and with additional cost). Good luck, Bill Loesch Solar 1 - Saint Louis Solar 314 631 1094 Good call, Ray, with the altitude change. - Original Message - From: R Ray Walters r...@solarray.com To: RE-wrenches re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Sent: Sunday, August 01, 2010 4:26 PM Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Trojan T-105 non-vented shipping caps? Bob's idea of strapping them together is good. We do the same thing to move batteries on horrible washboard roads, it definitely keeps them upright. Also, consider the altitude change in flight, as that could pressurize an unvented battery to dangerous levels. You definitely want to keep them vented. For as small a project as this is ( 2 batteries?) and with all the problems, I'd seriously consider sealed batteries in this instance. No spills, no maintenance, better freeze protection. (golf cart batteries don't normally get flown around by helicopter!) R. Walters r...@solarray.com Solar Engineer On Aug 1, 2010, at 1:47 PM, bob wrote: You might want to tie the batteries together with a ratchet strap. That will probably do a better job of keeping them from turning over more than if they are just single batteries. The plastic under the caps will probably keep the acid from spilling. But I would shake them to free any loose bubbles before I put the caps on, with or without the plastic. You could then just put them in a heavy plastic bag, and make the sign of the cross and hope for the best. Bob -Original Message- From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of Dan Fink Sent: Friday, July 30, 2010 10:54 AM To: RE-wrenches Subject: [RE-wrenches] Trojan T-105 non-vented shipping caps? Esteemed Wrenches; Hopefully Ronald from Trojan can help me here, or maybe someone else has done this. In my recent remote Northern BC install, we have a pair of T-105s at a remote location, installed in a plastic cooler. They will need to be moved to the central Lodge install for winter maintenance charging, as their installed location gets *zero* sun for 3 months of the winter. The lodge staff will be moving the cooler via helicopter*hopefully* on the back seat, but it may be part of a long-line sling load. They have had some pretty harrowing sling load work this year, including a broken skid on the helo and some trees that got a 'haircut.' I can almost guarantee that had the batteries been on that load, they would have lost some electrolyte from tipping. My question is -- are shipping caps with *no vent holes* available? Or could we use plastic baggies? I hate the idea of the lodge staff accidentally getting bits of plastic bag into the cells. DAN FINK Buckville Energy Consulting LLC http://www.buckville.com/ ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive:
[RE-wrenches] Outdoor rated flexible metal cable
I recently had the opportunity to visit a City of Los Angeles Remote Automated Weather Station (RAWS). See http://cdec.water.ca.gov/cgi-progs/queryF?s=mtwd=nowspan=24hours I noticed that the system was wired using a flexible metal cable (1/2). It had a continuous outer metallic covering that looked to be aluminum. I asked my host about the cable and he said that he hadn't been involved in the installation and didn't know much about conduit/cable/wire. The conditions are certainly damp i.e. outdoors, but I don't know about wet. The cable runs were completely exposed to the weather. The cable carried low voltage data and power. I am pretty sure it didn't carry 120/240Vac, but again my host didn't know. Does any one know what this cable might be? If you would like a photo, I could send one off-line. - Peter Peter T. Parrish, Ph.D., President California Solar Engineering, Inc. 820 Cynthia Ave., Los Angeles, CA 90065 CA Lic. 854779, NABCEP Cert. 031806-26 peter.parr...@calsolareng.com Ph 323-258-8883, Mobile 323-839-6108, Fax 323-258-8885 ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Lightning Protection System
Kelly, The company we used the most is Bonded Lightning Protection Systems: http://www.bondedlp.com/ They had local offices for our projects in Austin, TX and a regional HQ. Also, they had installed many of the lightning protection systems that we came across on existing buildings, including semiconductor fabs. We¹d also run into them regularly on new construction projects. Maybe they can help you or point you to a company that serves the NW? There must not be a lot of lightning activity in the areajudging by the absence of service providerswhich makes me wonder if this language is really appropriate for this particular project. Is it really a design standard for federal projects? Or is it just goo left in the bid package specifications from a site in a lightning prone region? Best, David On 8/2/10 1:34 AM, Kelly Keilwitz, Whidbey Sun Wind ke...@whidbeysunwind.com wrote: David, Sounds like a perfect solution to me. The UL website lists 14 pages of Listed Installers for lightning protection, about 70% located in the Southeast, and the closest to WA State in Utah or SoCal. Do you recall the name of any such firm you liked to work with and were reasonable with their bids? It would be nice not to have to cold call from such a large list. Kelly Keilwitz, P.E. Whidbey Sun Wind Renewable Energy Systems 987 Wanamaker Rd. Coupeville, WA 98239 ke...@whidbeysunwind.com PH FAX: 360.678.7131 NABCEP Certified PV Installer WA Electrical Administrator On Aug 1, 2010, at 8:24 AM, David Brearley wrote: Kelly, When I came across language like this in an RFP, my assumption was that we needed to work with a specialty lightning protection subcontractor, a firm listed by UL. I would call them up, give them a project description and request a quote, which I would build into our cost estimate for the project. Included in their scope of work is providing a ³UL Listed Lightning Protection Certificate.² You can include that scope of work as a line item in our proposal. If the proposal requires that you include resumes for key team members, you might also include the lightning company¹s bio as it shows you¹ve done your due diligence. On the projects that I managed in this fashion, the lightning protection company always came in after our construction was substantially complete. There may be cases where you want to coordinate the that scope of work differently and get them on site earlier. They should be able to tell you what will work best, based on the general project description and your specific equipment grounding scheme. David Brearley, Senior Technical Editor SolarPro magazine NABCEP Certified PV Installer david.brear...@solarprofessional.com On 7/31/10 3:28 PM, Kelly Keilwitz, Whidbey Sun Wind ke...@whidbeysunwind.com wrote: Hi All, I'm working on the design for a PV Wind power system for a military installation. The specs call for Lightning Protection as follows: Provide a complete lightning protection system with a UL Lightning Protection Inspection Certificate. including, but not necessarily limited to, strike termination devices, conductors, ground terminals, interconnecting conductors, surge suppression devices, and other connectors and fittings required for a complete and usable system. Anyone have an idea of what qualifies? Is there a package product that has the UL Lightning Protection Inspection Certificate? Thanks, -Kelly Kelly Keilwitz, P.E. Whidbey Sun Wind Renewable Energy Systems NABCEP Certified PV Installer ke...@whidbeysunwind.com 360.678.7131 ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] USE-2 in white?
YES. We get ours from PLATT Electric. Most electric supply houses should have this wire. It is definitely nice for your DC source circuits. Eric R. Andrews NABCEP Certified PV Installer Eco Solar, Inc. Electrical Contractor #C623 www.ecosolarnow.com PO Box 5194 Klamath Falls, OR 97601 541-281-8252 cell 541-273-3200 office mailto:e...@ecosolarnow.com mailto:e...@ecosolarnow.com Saving the World... One Solar Panel at a Time! ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] USE-2 in white?
I've seen it in the field from this manufacturer: http://www.kristechwire.com/use-2-solar-wire.php Original Message Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] USE-2 in white? From: EcoSolar - Eric Andrews e...@ecosolarnow.com To: 'RE-wrenches' re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Date: 2010/8/2 12:32 YES. We get ours from PLATT Electric. Most electric supply houses should have this wire. It is definitely nice for your DC source circuits. Eric R. Andrews NABCEP Certified PV Installer Eco Solar, Inc. Electrical Contractor #C623 www.ecosolarnow.com PO Box 5194 Klamath Falls, OR 97601 541-281-8252 cell 541-273-3200 office mailto:e...@ecosolarnow.com mailto:e...@ecosolarnow.com /Saving the World... One Solar Panel at a Time!/ ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] USE-2 in white?
The sales rep at a wire mfr recently opined that USE-2 colors other than black will not have the same sunlight resistance. I had some red in the field which faded to pink but still looked OK after a few years...but that's only after a few years, and only OK. White in the same installation faded to...white but I still am nervous about using colors after that conversation. The latest batch that I bought is straight black; I believe the black stuff contains carbon black which is the secret sauce for UV resistance. Further input from the List would be appreciated. Jolliness, Mick Abraham, Proprietor www.abrahamsolar.com Voice: 970-731-4675 On Mon, Aug 2, 2010 at 10:32 AM, EcoSolar - Eric Andrews e...@ecosolarnow.com wrote: YES. We get ours from PLATT Electric. Most electric supply houses should have this wire. It is definitely nice for your DC source circuits. Eric R. Andrews NABCEP Certified PV Installer Eco Solar, Inc. Electrical Contractor #C623 www.ecosolarnow.com PO Box 5194 Klamath Falls, OR 97601 541-281-8252 cell 541-273-3200 office mailto:e...@ecosolarnow.com e...@ecosolarnow.com *Saving the World... One Solar Panel at a Time!* ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
[RE-wrenches] 100 Foot Skystream tower
The owner stated it was a 100' tower and it is from SWWP. It probably is a 70 tower based on the web site. I will start there and check back with the owner. The bases are level and it is squared off. Volume size of concrete from above looks correct. There are 15'-20' cedar juniper trees that he is reluctant to cut that are in the way. I told him to find someone else to raise this wind generator if he is not willing to create a clear and safe area to work and raise the tower, I have been there long ago and will not do that again. He was no happy that he was going to lose this area for grazing after I told him that the animals and guy lines were not a good combination. Thank-you for the time estimates. Yes it is uncharted territory when you come in behind others that have bailed for unknown reasons on a project. Do the homework and due diligence. So far they have been great clients, good with communication, and prompt in payment, so I wonder more about the previous installers experience abilities. Dana Orzel Great Solar Works, Inc E - d...@solarwork.com V - 970.626.5253 F - 970.626.4140 C - 970.209.4076 web - www.solarwork.com Responsible Technologies for Responsible People since 1988 From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of Roy Butler Sent: Sunday, August 01, 2010 10:17 AM To: RE-wrenches Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] 100 Foot Skystream tower Dana, Could you tell me a bit more about that 100' tower? The last I knew, SWWP only offered a 70' tower. So this would be a 3rd party tower? Xzeres (formerly ARE)? Or LMWS? And is that schedule 40 pipe or schedule 10? Did you install the concrete foundations? Since you've installed some tilt towers before, I would imagine you understand the importance of having the foundations line up correctly. For this reason, I hate finishing a tower installation someone else started! I've seen as much as a 6 foot difference in elevation between the two side anchors on owner installed foundations. Under ideal circumstances and on that mythical frictionless plane, I'd allot 1 day with 3 people for assembly and another day with 4 people during the initial raising of the empty tower and the final raising with the cherry on top. Having a side spotter on these towers is invaluable! The trick of course is knowing all the unknowns before hand ;-) Roy Butler NABCEP Certified Solar PV InstallerR NYSERDA eligible PV wind installer PA Sunshine Program Approved PV Installer ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Lightning Protection System
I have worked with Heary Brothers out of NY for ESS - Early stream emission devices http://www.hearybros.com/ Come with a lifetime $100 million insurance policy. I have 4 of these systems in and no one has taken a direct hit since installation. UL listed etc... Thanks, Dana Orzel Great Solar Works, Inc E - d...@solarwork.com V - 970.626.5253 F - 970.626.4140 C - 970.209.4076 web - www.solarwork.com Responsible Technologies for Responsible People since 1988 From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of David Brearley Sent: Monday, August 02, 2010 10:29 AM To: RE-wrenches Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Lightning Protection System Kelly, The company we used the most is Bonded Lightning Protection Systems: http://www.bondedlp.com/ They had local offices for our projects in Austin, TX and a regional HQ. Also, they had installed many of the lightning protection systems that we came across on existing buildings, including semiconductor fabs. We'd also run into them regularly on new construction projects. Maybe they can help you or point you to a company that serves the NW? There must not be a lot of lightning activity in the area-judging by the absence of service providers-which makes me wonder if this language is really appropriate for this particular project. Is it really a design standard for federal projects? Or is it just goo left in the bid package specifications from a site in a lightning prone region? Best, David On 8/2/10 1:34 AM, Kelly Keilwitz, Whidbey Sun Wind ke...@whidbeysunwind.com wrote: David, Sounds like a perfect solution to me. The UL website lists 14 pages of Listed Installers for lightning protection, about 70% located in the Southeast, and the closest to WA State in Utah or SoCal. Do you recall the name of any such firm you liked to work with and were reasonable with their bids? It would be nice not to have to cold call from such a large list. Kelly Keilwitz, P.E. Whidbey Sun Wind Renewable Energy Systems 987 Wanamaker Rd. Coupeville, WA 98239 ke...@whidbeysunwind.com PH FAX: 360.678.7131 NABCEP Certified PV Installer WA Electrical Administrator On Aug 1, 2010, at 8:24 AM, David Brearley wrote: Kelly, When I came across language like this in an RFP, my assumption was that we needed to work with a specialty lightning protection subcontractor, a firm listed by UL. I would call them up, give them a project description and request a quote, which I would build into our cost estimate for the project. Included in their scope of work is providing a UL Listed Lightning Protection Certificate. You can include that scope of work as a line item in our proposal. If the proposal requires that you include resumes for key team members, you might also include the lightning company's bio as it shows you've done your due diligence. On the projects that I managed in this fashion, the lightning protection company always came in after our construction was substantially complete. There may be cases where you want to coordinate the that scope of work differently and get them on site earlier. They should be able to tell you what will work best, based on the general project description and your specific equipment grounding scheme. David Brearley, Senior Technical Editor SolarPro magazine NABCEP Certified PV Installer T david.brear...@solarprofessional.com On 7/31/10 3:28 PM, Kelly Keilwitz, Whidbey Sun Wind ke...@whidbeysunwind.com wrote: Hi All, I'm working on the design for a PV Wind power system for a military installation. The specs call for Lightning Protection as follows: Provide a complete lightning protection system with a UL Lightning Protection Inspection Certificate. including, but not necessarily limited to, strike termination devices, conductors, ground terminals, interconnecting conductors, surge suppression devices, and other connectors and fittings required for a complete and usable system. Anyone have an idea of what qualifies? Is there a package product that has the UL Lightning Protection Inspection Certificate? Thanks, -Kelly Kelly Keilwitz, P.E. Whidbey Sun Wind Renewable Energy Systems NABCEP Certified PV Installer ke...@whidbeysunwind.com 360.678.7131 No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.851 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3044 - Release Date: 08/02/10 00:35:00 ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] AL wire with DC
I used to have a customer who direct buried his own AL wire with a trencher, no sand or conduit for about 600' several years ago. It failed and now I am the bad guy, it is amazing how many people he has told that I did it. Lessons learned, avoid aluminum, use conduit and don't let the customer do it. I also have seen romex buried with a shovel tip 2 below the surface. Just another experience for the mental file cabinet. Later, Bob Ellison From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of Nick Soleil Sent: Thursday, July 29, 2010 2:16 AM To: RE-wrenches Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] AL wire with DC One of our installers put a shovel through a length of romex underground today? Not even direct burial wire! Nick Soleil Project Manager Advanced Alternative Energy Solutions, LLC PO Box 657 Petaluma, CA 94953 Cell: 707-321-2937 Office: 707-789-9537 Fax: 707-769-9037 _ From: Jeff Oldham starpowe...@juno.com To: re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Sent: Wed, July 28, 2010 1:31:16 PM Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] AL wire with DC IMHO one should never ever direct bury ANY class of wire, it can be a very expensive gamble making the cost of your conduit insurance policy an absolute bargain. This is one of the DIY'ers #1 mistake in UG wire runs. From the Solar, Wind and Hydro powered office of Jeff Oldham/Regenerative SOLutions http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3132/4c5093aa196624f4bf8st02vuc Penny Stock Soaring 3000% Sign up for Free to find out what the next 3000% Stock Winner Is! http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3132/4c5093aa196624f4bf8st02vuc PennyStocksUniverse.com ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] USE-2 in white?
It's been years since we ordered it, but we got black, red and white from Anixter, 1-800-538-5431. Our rep Johnny X2832. The white fades in our intense sun, but is still adequately gray/white after 15 years. Allan Sindelar Allan@positiveenergysolar.com NABCEP Certified Photovoltaic Installer EE98J Journeyman Electrician Positive Energy, Inc. 3201 Calle Marie Santa Fe, New Mexico 87507 505 424-1112 www.positiveenergysolar.com On 8/2/2010 10:40 AM, Mick Abraham wrote: The sales rep at a wire mfr recently opined that USE-2 colors other than black will not have the same sunlight resistance. I had some red in the field which faded to pink but still looked OK after a few years...but that's only after a few years, and only OK. White in the same installation faded to...white but I still am nervous about using colors after that conversation. The latest batch that I bought is straight black; I believe the black stuff contains carbon black which is the "secret sauce" for UV resistance. Further input from the List would be appreciated. Jolliness, Mick Abraham, Proprietor www.abrahamsolar.com Voice: 970-731-4675 On Mon, Aug 2, 2010 at 10:32 AM, EcoSolar - Eric Andrews e...@ecosolarnow.com wrote: YES. We get ours from PLATT Electric. Most electric supply houses should have this wire. It is definitely nice for your DC source circuits. Eric R. Andrews NABCEP Certified PV Installer ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] USE-2 in white?
I think we should be careful in two respects: (1) We have found black with white stripe for #10 USE-2. Since we have not had a use for anything larger than #10, I dont know if black with a white stripe is available for larger gauges. It seems intuitive that black with a white stripe should have superior sunlight resistance than all white. (2) The wire with red insulation might actually be XLP or CPE wire, rated USE-2. The XLP/CLP is a polyethylene-based not a rubber-based compound. One thing I like about the XLP/CPE is that it is slicker than cat shit (and with a smaller OD for same wire gauge), much easier to pull in conduit even for the short distances that we typically have between PV modules and the first j-box. - Peter Peter T. Parrish, Ph.D., President California Solar Engineering, Inc. 820 Cynthia Ave., Los Angeles, CA 90065 CA Lic. 854779, NABCEP Cert. 031806-26 peter.parr...@calsolareng.com Ph 323-258-8883, Mobile 323-839-6108, Fax 323-258-8885 From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of Allan Sindelar Sent: Monday, August 02, 2010 10:20 AM To: RE-wrenches Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] USE-2 in white? It's been years since we ordered it, but we got black, red and white from Anixter, 1-800-538-5431. Our rep Johnny X2832. The white fades in our intense sun, but is still adequately gray/white after 15 years. Allan Sindelar al...@positiveenergysolar.com NABCEP Certified Photovoltaic Installer EE98J Journeyman Electrician Positive Energy, Inc. 3201 Calle Marie Santa Fe, New Mexico 87507 505 424-1112 www.positiveenergysolar.com On 8/2/2010 10:40 AM, Mick Abraham wrote: The sales rep at a wire mfr recently opined that USE-2 colors other than black will not have the same sunlight resistance. I had some red in the field which faded to pink but still looked OK after a few years...but that's only after a few years, and only OK. White in the same installation faded to...white but I still am nervous about using colors after that conversation. The latest batch that I bought is straight black; I believe the black stuff contains carbon black which is the secret sauce for UV resistance. Further input from the List would be appreciated. Jolliness, Mick Abraham, Proprietor www.abrahamsolar.com Voice: 970-731-4675 On Mon, Aug 2, 2010 at 10:32 AM, EcoSolar - Eric Andrews e...@ecosolarnow.com wrote: YES. We get ours from PLATT Electric. Most electric supply houses should have this wire. It is definitely nice for your DC source circuits. Eric R. Andrews NABCEP Certified PV Installer ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Lightning Protection System
Opps $10 million insurance policy. Thanks, Dana Orzel Great Solar Works, Inc E - d...@solarwork.com V - 970.626.5253 F - 970.626.4140 C - 970.209.4076 web - www.solarwork.com Responsible Technologies for Responsible People since 1988 From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of Dana Sent: Monday, August 02, 2010 10:56 AM To: 'RE-wrenches' Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Lightning Protection System I have worked with Heary Brothers out of NY for ESS - Early stream emission devices http://www.hearybros.com/ Come with a lifetime $100 million insurance policy. I have 4 of these systems in and no one has taken a direct hit since installation. UL listed etc... Thanks, Dana Orzel Great Solar Works, Inc E - d...@solarwork.com V - 970.626.5253 F - 970.626.4140 C - 970.209.4076 web - www.solarwork.com Responsible Technologies for Responsible People since 1988 From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of David Brearley Sent: Monday, August 02, 2010 10:29 AM To: RE-wrenches Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Lightning Protection System Kelly, The company we used the most is Bonded Lightning Protection Systems: http://www.bondedlp.com/ They had local offices for our projects in Austin, TX and a regional HQ. Also, they had installed many of the lightning protection systems that we came across on existing buildings, including semiconductor fabs. We'd also run into them regularly on new construction projects. Maybe they can help you or point you to a company that serves the NW? There must not be a lot of lightning activity in the area-judging by the absence of service providers-which makes me wonder if this language is really appropriate for this particular project. Is it really a design standard for federal projects? Or is it just goo left in the bid package specifications from a site in a lightning prone region? Best, David On 8/2/10 1:34 AM, Kelly Keilwitz, Whidbey Sun Wind ke...@whidbeysunwind.com wrote: David, Sounds like a perfect solution to me. The UL website lists 14 pages of Listed Installers for lightning protection, about 70% located in the Southeast, and the closest to WA State in Utah or SoCal. Do you recall the name of any such firm you liked to work with and were reasonable with their bids? It would be nice not to have to cold call from such a large list. Kelly Keilwitz, P.E. Whidbey Sun Wind Renewable Energy Systems 987 Wanamaker Rd. Coupeville, WA 98239 ke...@whidbeysunwind.com PH FAX: 360.678.7131 NABCEP Certified PV Installer WA Electrical Administrator On Aug 1, 2010, at 8:24 AM, David Brearley wrote: Kelly, When I came across language like this in an RFP, my assumption was that we needed to work with a specialty lightning protection subcontractor, a firm listed by UL. I would call them up, give them a project description and request a quote, which I would build into our cost estimate for the project. Included in their scope of work is providing a UL Listed Lightning Protection Certificate. You can include that scope of work as a line item in our proposal. If the proposal requires that you include resumes for key team members, you might also include the lightning company's bio as it shows you've done your due diligence. On the projects that I managed in this fashion, the lightning protection company always came in after our construction was substantially complete. There may be cases where you want to coordinate the that scope of work differently and get them on site earlier. They should be able to tell you what will work best, based on the general project description and your specific equipment grounding scheme. David Brearley, Senior Technical Editor SolarPro magazine NABCEP Certified PV Installer T david.brear...@solarprofessional.com On 7/31/10 3:28 PM, Kelly Keilwitz, Whidbey Sun Wind ke...@whidbeysunwind.com wrote: Hi All, I'm working on the design for a PV Wind power system for a military installation. The specs call for Lightning Protection as follows: Provide a complete lightning protection system with a UL Lightning Protection Inspection Certificate. including, but not necessarily limited to, strike termination devices, conductors, ground terminals, interconnecting conductors, surge suppression devices, and other connectors and fittings required for a complete and usable system. Anyone have an idea of what qualifies? Is there a package product that has the UL Lightning Protection Inspection Certificate? Thanks, -Kelly Kelly Keilwitz, P.E. Whidbey Sun Wind Renewable Energy Systems NABCEP Certified PV Installer ke...@whidbeysunwind.com 360.678.7131 No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.851 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3044 - Release Date: 08/02/10 00:35:00 No virus found in this incoming
Re: [RE-wrenches] USE-2 in white?
The red is USE-2, RHH and RHW-2, rubber jacket. BiccGeneral (sp?) Durasheath. Allan Sindelar Allan@positiveenergysolar.com NABCEP Certified Photovoltaic Installer EE98J Journeyman Electrician Positive Energy, Inc. 3201 Calle Marie Santa Fe, New Mexico 87507 505 424-1112 www.positiveenergysolar.com On 8/2/2010 11:36 AM, Peter Parrish wrote: I think we should be careful in two respects: (1) We have found black with white stripe for #10 USE-2. Since we have not had a use for anything larger than #10, I dont know if black with a white stripe is available for larger gauges. It seems intuitive that black with a white stripe should have superior sunlight resistance than all white. (2) The wire with red insulation might actually be XLP or CPE wire, rated USE-2. The XLP/CLP is a polyethylene-based not a rubber-based compound. One thing I like about the XLP/CPE is that it is slicker than cat shit (and with a smaller OD for same wire gauge), much easier to pull in conduit even for the short distances that we typically have between PV modules and the first j-box. - Peter Peter T. Parrish, Ph.D., President California Solar Engineering, Inc. 820 Cynthia Ave., Los Angeles, CA 90065 CA Lic. 854779, NABCEP Cert. 031806-26 peter.parr...@calsolareng.com Ph 323-258-8883, Mobile 323-839-6108, Fax 323-258-8885 From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of Allan Sindelar Sent: Monday, August 02, 2010 10:20 AM To: RE-wrenches Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] USE-2 in white? It's been years since we ordered it, but we got black, red and white from Anixter, 1-800-538-5431. Our rep Johnny X2832. The white fades in our intense sun, but is still adequately gray/white after 15 years. Allan Sindelar al...@positiveenergysolar.com NABCEP Certified Photovoltaic Installer EE98J Journeyman Electrician Positive Energy, Inc. 3201 Calle Marie Santa Fe, New Mexico 87507 505 424-1112 www.positiveenergysolar.com On 8/2/2010 10:40 AM, Mick Abraham wrote: The sales rep at a wire mfr recently opined that USE-2 colors other than black will not have the same sunlight resistance. I had some red in the field which faded to pink but still looked OK after a few years...but that's only after a few years, and only OK. White in the same installation faded to...white but I still am nervous about using colors after that conversation. The latest batch that I bought is straight black; I believe the black stuff contains carbon black which is the "secret sauce" for UV resistance. Further input from the List would be appreciated. Jolliness, Mick Abraham, Proprietor www.abrahamsolar.com Voice: 970-731-4675 On Mon, Aug 2, 2010 at 10:32 AM, EcoSolar - Eric Andrews e...@ecosolarnow.com wrote: YES. We get ours from PLATT Electric. Most electric supply houses should have this wire. It is definitely nice for your DC source circuits. Eric R. Andrews NABCEP Certified PV Installer ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] USE-2 in white?
Then I agree that the lack of carbon black could be a problem for USE-2 wire. Peter T. Parrish, Ph.D., President California Solar Engineering, Inc. 820 Cynthia Ave., Los Angeles, CA 90065 CA Lic. 854779, NABCEP Cert. 031806-26 peter.parr...@calsolareng.com Ph 323-258-8883, Mobile 323-839-6108, Fax 323-258-8885 From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of Allan Sindelar Sent: Monday, August 02, 2010 11:20 AM To: RE-wrenches Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] USE-2 in white? The red is USE-2, RHH and RHW-2, rubber jacket. BiccGeneral (sp?) Durasheath. Allan Sindelar al...@positiveenergysolar.com NABCEP Certified Photovoltaic Installer EE98J Journeyman Electrician Positive Energy, Inc. 3201 Calle Marie Santa Fe, New Mexico 87507 505 424-1112 www.positiveenergysolar.com On 8/2/2010 11:36 AM, Peter Parrish wrote: I think we should be careful in two respects: (1) We have found black with white stripe for #10 USE-2. Since we have not had a use for anything larger than #10, I dont know if black with a white stripe is available for larger gauges. It seems intuitive that black with a white stripe should have superior sunlight resistance than all white. (2) The wire with red insulation might actually be XLP or CPE wire, rated USE-2. The XLP/CLP is a polyethylene-based not a rubber-based compound. One thing I like about the XLP/CPE is that it is slicker than cat shit (and with a smaller OD for same wire gauge), much easier to pull in conduit even for the short distances that we typically have between PV modules and the first j-box. - Peter Peter T. Parrish, Ph.D., President California Solar Engineering, Inc. 820 Cynthia Ave., Los Angeles, CA 90065 CA Lic. 854779, NABCEP Cert. 031806-26 peter.parr...@calsolareng.com Ph 323-258-8883, Mobile 323-839-6108, Fax 323-258-8885 From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of Allan Sindelar Sent: Monday, August 02, 2010 10:20 AM To: RE-wrenches Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] USE-2 in white? It's been years since we ordered it, but we got black, red and white from Anixter, 1-800-538-5431. Our rep Johnny X2832. The white fades in our intense sun, but is still adequately gray/white after 15 years. Allan Sindelar al...@positiveenergysolar.com NABCEP Certified Photovoltaic Installer EE98J Journeyman Electrician Positive Energy, Inc. 3201 Calle Marie Santa Fe, New Mexico 87507 505 424-1112 www.positiveenergysolar.com On 8/2/2010 10:40 AM, Mick Abraham wrote: The sales rep at a wire mfr recently opined that USE-2 colors other than black will not have the same sunlight resistance. I had some red in the field which faded to pink but still looked OK after a few years...but that's only after a few years, and only OK. White in the same installation faded to...white but I still am nervous about using colors after that conversation. The latest batch that I bought is straight black; I believe the black stuff contains carbon black which is the secret sauce for UV resistance. Further input from the List would be appreciated. Jolliness, Mick Abraham, Proprietor www.abrahamsolar.com Voice: 970-731-4675 On Mon, Aug 2, 2010 at 10:32 AM, EcoSolar - Eric Andrews e...@ecosolarnow.com wrote: YES. We get ours from PLATT Electric. Most electric supply houses should have this wire. It is definitely nice for your DC source circuits. Eric R. Andrews NABCEP Certified PV Installer ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] USE-2 in white?
My application for #8 and #6 is in conduit from the PV array combiner to the DC disconnect/inverter. So, UV protection is not important. Better quality insulation is my concern. We had a couple of spools of #8 THHN/THWN-2 test below the norm with a Fluke insulation tester recently. My local CED distributor did track down the white USE-2 for us. Dave -Original Message- From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of Peter Parrish Sent: Monday, August 02, 2010 2:52 PM To: 'RE-wrenches' Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] USE-2 in white? Then I agree that the lack of carbon black could be a problem for USE-2 wire. Peter T. Parrish, Ph.D., President California Solar Engineering, Inc. 820 Cynthia Ave., Los Angeles, CA 90065 CA Lic. 854779, NABCEP Cert. 031806-26 peter.parr...@calsolareng.com Ph 323-258-8883, Mobile 323-839-6108, Fax 323-258-8885 From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of Allan Sindelar Sent: Monday, August 02, 2010 11:20 AM To: RE-wrenches Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] USE-2 in white? The red is USE-2, RHH and RHW-2, rubber jacket. BiccGeneral (sp?) Durasheath. Allan Sindelar al...@positiveenergysolar.com NABCEP Certified Photovoltaic Installer EE98J Journeyman Electrician Positive Energy, Inc. 3201 Calle Marie Santa Fe, New Mexico 87507 505 424-1112 www.positiveenergysolar.com On 8/2/2010 11:36 AM, Peter Parrish wrote: I think we should be careful in two respects: (1) We have found black with white stripe for #10 USE-2. Since we have not had a use for anything larger than #10, I dont know if black with a white stripe is available for larger gauges. It seems intuitive that black with a white stripe should have superior sunlight resistance than all white. (2) The wire with red insulation might actually be XLP or CPE wire, rated USE-2. The XLP/CLP is a polyethylene-based not a rubber-based compound. One thing I like about the XLP/CPE is that it is slicker than cat shit (and with a smaller OD for same wire gauge), much easier to pull in conduit even for the short distances that we typically have between PV modules and the first j-box. - Peter Peter T. Parrish, Ph.D., President California Solar Engineering, Inc. 820 Cynthia Ave., Los Angeles, CA 90065 CA Lic. 854779, NABCEP Cert. 031806-26 peter.parr...@calsolareng.com Ph 323-258-8883, Mobile 323-839-6108, Fax 323-258-8885 From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of Allan Sindelar Sent: Monday, August 02, 2010 10:20 AM To: RE-wrenches Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] USE-2 in white? It's been years since we ordered it, but we got black, red and white from Anixter, 1-800-538-5431. Our rep Johnny X2832. The white fades in our intense sun, but is still adequately gray/white after 15 years. Allan Sindelar al...@positiveenergysolar.com NABCEP Certified Photovoltaic Installer EE98J Journeyman Electrician Positive Energy, Inc. 3201 Calle Marie Santa Fe, New Mexico 87507 505 424-1112 www.positiveenergysolar.com On 8/2/2010 10:40 AM, Mick Abraham wrote: The sales rep at a wire mfr recently opined that USE-2 colors other than black will not have the same sunlight resistance. I had some red in the field which faded to pink but still looked OK after a few years...but that's only after a few years, and only OK. White in the same installation faded to...white but I still am nervous about using colors after that conversation. The latest batch that I bought is straight black; I believe the black stuff contains carbon black which is the secret sauce for UV resistance. Further input from the List would be appreciated. Jolliness, Mick Abraham, Proprietor www.abrahamsolar.com Voice: 970-731-4675 On Mon, Aug 2, 2010 at 10:32 AM, EcoSolar - Eric Andrews e...@ecosolarnow.com wrote: YES. We get ours from PLATT Electric. Most electric supply houses should have this wire. It is definitely nice for your DC source circuits. Eric R. Andrews NABCEP Certified PV Installer ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check
Re: [RE-wrenches] Outdoor rated flexible metal cable
Peter, What you describe almost sounds like Teck Cable -- General Specifications Standard Design Features - Teck Cable. Teck cable generally has an outer PVC covering that covers the flexible aluminum armor', although i have seen it without the outer PVC jacket (aluminum exposed). This is a great multi-purpose armored cable that is outdoor, direct burial rated. I haven't seen/used teck containing data cable, but assume that it is quite likely available. While not that great looking for some locations, for others, it certainly can save time and effort when used instead of running conduit and then having to pulling the wires in. Cheers,benn DayStar Renewable Energy Inc. b...@daystarsolar.ca780-906-7807 HAVE A SUNNY DAY CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE:This email, including any attachments, contains information from DayStar Renewable Energy Inc. and/or its affiliates, which may be confidential or privileged. The information is intended to be for the use of the individual or entity named above. If you are not the intended recipient, be aware that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this information is prohibited. If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender immediately by reply to sender only message and destroy all electronic and hard copies of the communication, including attachments. From: peter.parr...@calsolareng.com To: re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Date: Mon, 2 Aug 2010 08:36:45 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Outdoor rated flexible metal cable I recently had the opportunity to visit a City of Los Angeles Remote Automated Weather Station (RAWS). See http://cdec.water.ca.gov/cgi-progs/queryF?s=mtwd=nowspan=24hours I noticed that the system was wired using a flexible metal cable (1/2). It had a continuous outer metallic covering that looked to be aluminum. I asked my host about the cable and he said that he hadn't been involved in the installation and didn't know much about conduit/cable/wire. The conditions are certainly damp i.e. outdoors, but I don't know about wet. The cable runs were completely exposed to the weather. The cable carried low voltage data and power. I am pretty sure it didn't carry 120/240Vac, but again my host didn't know. Does any one know what this cable might be? If you would like a photo, I could send one off-line. - Peter Peter T. Parrish, Ph.D., President California Solar Engineering, Inc. 820 Cynthia Ave., Los Angeles, CA 90065 CA Lic. 854779, NABCEP Cert. 031806-26 peter.parr...@calsolareng.com Ph 323-258-8883, Mobile 323-839-6108, Fax 323-258-8885 ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Outdoor rated flexible metal cable
If it is metal clad cable, then it isn't rated for outdoor applications, but it doesn't matter much if it is 24V. Nick Soleil Project Manager Advanced Alternative Energy Solutions, LLC PO Box 657 Petaluma, CA 94953 Cell: 707-321-2937 Office: 707-789-9537 Fax:707-769-9037 From: Peter Parrish peter.parr...@calsolareng.com To: RE-wrenches re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Sent: Mon, August 2, 2010 8:36:45 AM Subject: [RE-wrenches] Outdoor rated flexible metal cable I recently had the opportunity to visit a City of Los Angeles Remote Automated Weather Station (RAWS). See http://cdec.water.ca.gov/cgi-progs/queryF?s=mtwd=nowspan=24hours I noticed that the system was wired using a flexible metal cable (1/2). It had a continuous outer metallic covering that looked to be aluminum. I asked my host about the cable and he said that he hadn't been involved in the installation and didn't know much about conduit/cable/wire. The conditions are certainly damp i.e. outdoors, but I don't know about wet. The cable runs were completely exposed to the weather. The cable carried low voltage data and power. I am pretty sure it didn't carry 120/240Vac, but again my host didn't know. Does any one know what this cable might be? If you would like a photo, I could send one off-line. - Peter Peter T. Parrish, Ph.D., President California Solar Engineering, Inc. 820 Cynthia Ave., Los Angeles, CA 90065 CA Lic. 854779, NABCEP Cert. 031806-26 peter.parr...@calsolareng.com Ph 323-258-8883, Mobile 323-839-6108, Fax 323-258-8885 ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] USE-2 in white?
We get ours in 10AWG from Allied Wire Cable in Collegville, PA. It is not white, but they stripe it white with no trouble - about 3 stripes if I recall. I can't see why they wouldn't have larger gauges it is pretty close to VT. -Glenn From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of Dave Palumbo Sent: Monday, August 02, 2010 12:22 PM To: 'RE-wrenches' Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] USE-2 in white? Is USE-2 (#8 and #6 AWG) available in white? If so, from whom? Dave David Palumbo, NABCEP Certified PV Installer Independent Power LLC Offices in Lamoille and the Champlain Valley 802.888.7194 www.independentpowerllc.com ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] USE-2 in white?
We got a recent quote of $0.269/ft for black and $0.329/ft for black w/white stripe #10 in order quantities of 1,000 ft. It is CPE/XLP rated USE-2 and RHW-2. What do people think of these prices? -Peter Peter T. Parrish, Ph.D., President California Solar Engineering, Inc. 820 Cynthia Ave., Los Angeles, CA 90065 CA Lic. 854779, NABCEP Cert. 031806-26 peter.parr...@calsolareng.com Ph 323-258-8883, Mobile 323-839-6108, Fax 323-258-8885 From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of Nick Soleil Sent: Monday, August 02, 2010 1:56 PM To: RE-wrenches Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] USE-2 in white? The colored USE-2 wiring is UV resistant (as rated) and it is the better kind (double jacketed.) I like! Nick Soleil Project Manager Advanced Alternative Energy Solutions, LLC PO Box 657 Petaluma, CA 94953 Cell: 707-321-2937 Office: 707-789-9537 Fax: 707-769-9037 From: Dave Palumbo d...@independentpowerllc.com To: RE-wrenches re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Sent: Mon, August 2, 2010 12:14:50 PM Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] USE-2 in white? My application for #8 and #6 is in conduit from the PV array combiner to the DC disconnect/inverter. So, UV protection is not important. Better quality insulation is my concern. We had a couple of spools of #8 THHN/THWN-2 test below the norm with a Fluke insulation tester recently. My local CED distributor did track down the white USE-2 for us. Dave -Original Message- From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of Peter Parrish Sent: Monday, August 02, 2010 2:52 PM To: 'RE-wrenches' Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] USE-2 in white? Then I agree that the lack of carbon black could be a problem for USE-2 wire. Peter T. Parrish, Ph.D., President California Solar Engineering, Inc. 820 Cynthia Ave., Los Angeles, CA 90065 CA Lic. 854779, NABCEP Cert. 031806-26 peter.parr...@calsolareng.com Ph 323-258-8883, Mobile 323-839-6108, Fax 323-258-8885 From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of Allan Sindelar Sent: Monday, August 02, 2010 11:20 AM To: RE-wrenches Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] USE-2 in white? The red is USE-2, RHH and RHW-2, rubber jacket. BiccGeneral (sp?) Durasheath. Allan Sindelar al...@positiveenergysolar.com NABCEP Certified Photovoltaic Installer EE98J Journeyman Electrician Positive Energy, Inc. 3201 Calle Marie Santa Fe, New Mexico 87507 505 424-1112 www.positiveenergysolar.com On 8/2/2010 11:36 AM, Peter Parrish wrote: I think we should be careful in two respects: (1) We have found black with white stripe for #10 USE-2. Since we have not had a use for anything larger than #10, I dont know if black with a white stripe is available for larger gauges. It seems intuitive that black with a white stripe should have superior sunlight resistance than all white. (2) The wire with red insulation might actually be XLP or CPE wire, rated USE-2. The XLP/CLP is a polyethylene-based not a rubber-based compound. One thing I like about the XLP/CPE is that it is slicker than cat shit (and with a smaller OD for same wire gauge), much easier to pull in conduit even for the short distances that we typically have between PV modules and the first j-box. - Peter Peter T. Parrish, Ph.D., President California Solar Engineering, Inc. 820 Cynthia Ave., Los Angeles, CA 90065 CA Lic. 854779, NABCEP Cert. 031806-26 peter.parr...@calsolareng.com Ph 323-258-8883, Mobile 323-839-6108, Fax 323-258-8885 From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of Allan Sindelar Sent: Monday, August 02, 2010 10:20 AM To: RE-wrenches Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] USE-2 in white? It's been years since we ordered it, but we got black, red and white from Anixter, 1-800-538-5431. Our rep Johnny X2832. The white fades in our intense sun, but is still adequately gray/white after 15 years. Allan Sindelar al...@positiveenergysolar.com NABCEP Certified Photovoltaic Installer EE98J Journeyman Electrician Positive Energy, Inc. 3201 Calle Marie Santa Fe, New Mexico 87507 505 424-1112 www.positiveenergysolar.com On 8/2/2010 10:40 AM, Mick Abraham wrote: The sales rep at a wire mfr recently opined that USE-2 colors other than black will not have the same sunlight resistance. I had some red in the field which faded to pink but still looked OK after a few years...but that's only after a few years, and only OK. White in the same installation faded to...white but I still am nervous about using colors after that conversation. The latest batch that I bought is straight black; I believe the black stuff contains carbon black which is the secret sauce for UV resistance. Further
Re: [RE-wrenches] Lightning Protection System
Thanks, David Not much lightening here. LOTS of leftover ignorant goo in these specs. Like 20 to 30 kW of VAWT's with specs just like the subject of a recent thread on this list entitled Wind Scam Only the best for the US military! Kelly, from mobile On Aug 2, 2010, at 9:29, David Brearley david.brear...@solarprofessional.com wrote: Kelly, The company we used the most is Bonded Lightning Protection Systems: http://www.bondedlp.com/ They had local offices for our projects in Austin, TX and a regional HQ. Also, they had installed many of the lightning protection systems that we came across on existing buildings, including semiconductor fabs. We’d also run into them regularly on new construction projects. Maybe they can help you or point you to a company that serves the NW? There must not be a lot of lightning activity in the area—judging by the absence of service providers—which makes me wonder if this language is really appropriate for this particular project. Is it really a design standard for federal projects? Or is it just goo left in the bid package specifications from a site in a lightning prone region? Best, David On 8/2/10 1:34 AM, Kelly Keilwitz, Whidbey Sun Wind ke...@whidbeysunwind.com wrote: David, Sounds like a perfect solution to me. The UL website lists 14 pages of Listed Installers for lightning protection, about 70% located in the Southeast, and the closest to WA State in Utah or SoCal. Do you recall the name of any such firm you liked to work with and were reasonable with their bids? It would be nice not to have to cold call from such a large list. Kelly Keilwitz, P.E. Whidbey Sun Wind Renewable Energy Systems 987 Wanamaker Rd. Coupeville, WA 98239 ke...@whidbeysunwind.com PH FAX: 360.678.7131 NABCEP Certified PV Installer WA Electrical Administrator On Aug 1, 2010, at 8:24 AM, David Brearley wrote: Kelly, When I came across language like this in an RFP, my assumption was that we needed to work with a specialty lightning protection subcontractor, a firm listed by UL. I would call them up, give them a project description and request a quote, which I would build into our cost estimate for the project. Included in their scope of work is providing a “UL Listed Lightning Protection Certificate.” You can include that scope of work as a line item in our proposal. If the proposal requires that you include resumes for key team members, you might also include the lightning company’s bio as it shows you’ve done your due diligence. On the projects that I managed in this fashion, the lightning protection company always came in after our construction was substantially complete. There may be cases where you want to coordinate the that scope of work differently and get them on site earlier. They should be able to tell you what will work best, based on the general project description and your specific equipment grounding scheme. David Brearley, Senior Technical Editor SolarPro magazine NABCEP Certified PV Installer ™ david.brear...@solarprofessional.com On 7/31/10 3:28 PM, Kelly Keilwitz, Whidbey Sun Wind ke...@whidbeysunwind.com wrote: Hi All, I'm working on the design for a PV Wind power system for a military installation. The specs call for Lightning Protection as follows: Provide a complete lightning protection system with a UL Lightning Protection Inspection Certificate. including, but not necessarily limited to, strike termination devices, conductors, ground terminals, interconnecting conductors, surge suppression devices, and other connectors and fittings required for a complete and usable system. Anyone have an idea of what qualifies? Is there a package product that has the UL Lightning Protection Inspection Certificate? Thanks, -Kelly Kelly Keilwitz, P.E. Whidbey Sun Wind Renewable Energy Systems NABCEP Certified PV Installer ke...@whidbeysunwind.com 360.678.7131 ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
