Re: [RE-wrenches] Aluminum wire failure

[Steve Johnson]

Bob,

I assume you are talking about feeders.
Although most people are against aluminum
wire it is really quite safe for feeders if installed properly.
To do this the lugs should all be retorqued after one year.
Aluminum "flows" under pressure, that is the steady pressure
at the lug slowly squeezes the soft metal into the corners of the lug
over time.  This leaves the lug not quite snug enough and a candidate for heat 
build up and eventually arcing.  When the lug is torqued after a year the flow 
to corners is done and it's good.  Disney was originally wired this way and the 
contact stipulated every feeder lug in the place was to be retorqued after 1yr 
under supervision of Disney engineers.
I guess these days nobody wants to go back in a year so we pay for 
copper,certainly the best conductor of the two.

Steve Johnson
LightWave Solar

On Aug 21, 2010, at 11:23 PM, 
"re-wrenches-requ...@lists.re-wrenches.org"mailto:re-wrenches-requ...@lists.re-wrenches.org>>
 wrote:

Send RE-wrenches mailing list submissions to
    
re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org



We don't often get to take picture, as the point of failure is hard to find, 
and the entire underground line is just abandoned and a new cable is installed.
Most failures I've seen (not actually seen) were on improperly installed runs, 
done by DIYers.
On the other hand, the majority of underground service in New Mexico is done 
with direct burial Aluminum, and if done correctly (buried deep enough, bedded 
in sand, no rocks), it's not so bad.
My regular suppliers don't even carry big copper, as the Al is so much cheaper, 
and comes in triplex, and 4 plex cables, but it's dry there.
In Hawaii, you see much more copper, so I think it all depends on the 
conditions, both above and below the ground.

R. Walters
r...@solarray.com
Solar Engineer




On Aug 21, 2010, at 2:48 AM, bob wrote:

Does anyone have any photos of aluminum wire that has failed? Failures from 
nicked insulation and such would help.
I have a debate going with a customer who does not believe that it could cause 
a failure.

If you have any digital pics please send them to my address, 
 reelli...@gmail.com 
instead of to the list.
I know there are some out there somewhere….

Thanks,
Bob Ellison

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Re: [RE-wrenches] Plug-in solar

[Dan Fink]

Don't Panic, as the cover of Douglas Adams' Hitchhikers Guide says. Plus 
I suspect Mr. Welch our esteemed moderator will move this thread to 
another board shortly anyway.


The whole Clarian thing looks entirely like premature exclamation by a 
PR department, prodded by a businessman who knows nothing about solar, 
wind or the NEC codebook, but is trying to get Google to fund his 
venture if he can win a contest. The PV modules and circuitry "will be" 
UL listed--they are not now, and any DIY project that feeds the grid 
without meeting NEC code or being inspected by the utility is an illegal 
"guerrilla" installation as previously mentioned here. Clarion's  
rooftop wind stuff is laughable, defies the laws of physics. And so on.


Strange, I got my Journalism degree in 1989 --I seem to remember that 
lesson One that corporate Flacks are supposed to learn in J-school is 
that, just like with stand-up comedy,  timing is everything -- if it all 
happens too soon, before all the hardware is ready, nobody gets 
satisfied on either end.


DAN FINK
Buckville Energy Consulting LLC
danf...@buckville.com





*From:* John McNicholas - Key Power Services 


*To:* Re-wrenches 
*Sent:* Sun, August 22, 2010 2:03:12 PM
*Subject:* [RE-wrenches] Plug-in solar


Coming to a hardware store near you.
http://www.cnn.com/2010/TECH/innovation/08/17/plug.in.solar.energy/index.html?hpt=C2

John McNicholas
NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installer ™

Key Power Services, Inc.



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Re: [RE-wrenches] Plug-in solar

[Nick Soleil]

What a joke?  They talk about the incentives for a system like theirs in 
California, and mention what the rebate would be based on $2/ watt, but the 
incentive now is $.55/watt.  Then they talk about plugging into a receptacle, 
as 
if the utility would allow.  Also, he doesn't mention that getting a rebate 
requires a permit, which will cost more than the incentive.  Additionally the 
incentives in CA require a minimum 1 KW system.  I assume their business module 
is really just about attracting investors.

 Nick Soleil
Project Manager
Advanced Alternative Energy Solutions, LLC
PO Box 657
Petaluma, CA 94953
Cell:   707-321-2937
Office: 707-789-9537
Fax:707-769-9037





From: John McNicholas - Key Power Services 
To: Re-wrenches 
Sent: Sun, August 22, 2010 2:03:12 PM
Subject: [RE-wrenches] Plug-in solar


Coming to a hardware store near you.
http://www.cnn.com/2010/TECH/innovation/08/17/plug.in.solar.energy/index.html?hpt=C2


John McNicholas
NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installer ™

Key Power Services, Inc.



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Re: [RE-wrenches] Plug-in solar

[James A. Hartley]

This approach to things requires a very apt expression for ... such things. 
GULP!




- Original Message - 
From: "Darryl Thayer" 

To: "RE-wrenches" 
Sent: Sunday, August 22, 2010 6:43 PM
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Plug-in solar


How can this be approved?  so a homeowner takes an extension cord and 
plugs in solar after solar he has a 20 amp circuit and on one end he has a 
20 amp breaker and on the other he has 20 amps of solar, now he has an 
overload and no protection, underwriters says no way on insurance!

darryl

--- On Sun, 8/22/10, Kurt Albershardt  wrote:


From: Kurt Albershardt 
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Plug-in solar
To: "RE-wrenches" 
Date: Sunday, August 22, 2010, 4:51 PM
Looks to me like Clarian just
borrowed the HP Guerilla Solar concept and somehow managed
to get it approved.



On Aug 22, 2010, at 15:03 , John McNicholas - Key Power
Services wrote:

>
> Coming to a hardware store near you.
> 
http://www.cnn.com/2010/TECH/innovation/08/17/plug.in.solar.energy/index.html?hpt=C2
>
> John McNicholas
> NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installer ™
>
> Key Power Services, Inc.

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Re: [RE-wrenches] Plug-in solar

[Darryl Thayer]

How can this be approved?  so a homeowner takes an extension cord and plugs in 
solar after solar he has a 20 amp circuit and on one end he has a 20 amp 
breaker and on the other he has 20 amps of solar, now he has an overload and no 
protection, underwriters says no way on insurance!
darryl

--- On Sun, 8/22/10, Kurt Albershardt  wrote:

> From: Kurt Albershardt 
> Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Plug-in solar
> To: "RE-wrenches" 
> Date: Sunday, August 22, 2010, 4:51 PM
> Looks to me like Clarian just
> borrowed the HP Guerilla Solar concept and somehow managed
> to get it approved.
> 
> 
> 
> On Aug 22, 2010, at 15:03 , John McNicholas - Key Power
> Services wrote:
> 
> > 
> > Coming to a hardware store near you.
> > http://www.cnn.com/2010/TECH/innovation/08/17/plug.in.solar.energy/index.html?hpt=C2
> > 
> > John McNicholas
> > NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installer ™
> > 
> > Key Power Services, Inc.
> 
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Plug-in solar

[Kurt Albershardt]

Looks to me like Clarian just borrowed the HP Guerilla Solar concept and 
somehow managed to get it approved.



On Aug 22, 2010, at 15:03 , John McNicholas - Key Power Services wrote:

> 
> Coming to a hardware store near you.
> http://www.cnn.com/2010/TECH/innovation/08/17/plug.in.solar.energy/index.html?hpt=C2
> 
> John McNicholas
> NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installer ™
> 
> Key Power Services, Inc.

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Re: [RE-wrenches] Lightning Protection System

[Kurt Albershardt]

A little late to the party here, but it might interest you all to know that the 
military has its own well-constructed standards for lightning protection.  Army 
Technical Manual 5-690 is a wonderful educational resource that explains the 
rationale for various measures quite clearly (and covers much of what  NFPA 780 
requires, but at no charge to the reader.)




On Jul 31, 2010, at 14:28 , Kelly Keilwitz, Whidbey Sun & Wind wrote:

> Hi All,
> I'm  working on the design for a PV & Wind power system for a military 
> installation. The specs call for Lightning Protection as follows:
> 
> "Provide a complete lightning protection system with  a UL Lightning 
> Protection Inspection Certificate. 
> including, but not necessarily limited to, strike termination devices, 
> conductors, ground terminals, 
> interconnecting conductors, surge suppression devices, and other connectors 
> and fittings required for 
> a complete and usable system. "
> 
> Anyone have an idea of what qualifies? Is there a package product that has 
> the "UL Lightning Protection Inspection Certificate"?
> 
> Thanks,
> -Kelly
> 
> Kelly Keilwitz, P.E.
> Whidbey Sun & Wind
> Renewable Energy Systems
> NABCEP Certified PV Installer
> ke...@whidbeysunwind.com
> 360.678.7131

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[RE-wrenches] Plug-in solar

[John McNicholas - Key Power Services]

Coming to a hardware store near you.
http://www.cnn.com/2010/TECH/innovation/08/17/plug.in.solar.energy/index.html?hpt=C2

John McNicholas
NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installer ™

Key Power Services, Inc.


 
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Re: [RE-wrenches] roof-mounted AC combiner box

[Peter Parrish]

Some of the combiner boxes MUST be mounted vertically, other can take up to
a 15 degree tilt, and if my memory serves me correctly (which is a 50-50
proposition) there is one box that can lie horizontal. It should already
have a DIN rail and could accommodate a bunch of touch-safe fuse holders. On
the other hand, what about 4R versions of the familiar sub-panels?

- Peter
 
Peter T. Parrish, Ph.D., President
California Solar Engineering, Inc.
820 Cynthia Ave., Los Angeles, CA 90065
CA Lic. 854779, NABCEP Cert. 031806-26
peter.parr...@calsolareng.com  
Ph 323-258-8883, Mobile 323-839-6108, Fax 323-258-8885

 

From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org
[mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of Kirk
Herander, VSE
Sent: Sunday, August 22, 2010 6:51 AM
To: 'RE-wrenches'
Subject: [RE-wrenches] roof-mounted AC combiner box

Hello,

I am about to start some larger Enphase systems, and I’m wondering if there
is an  AC combiner out there (outdoor load center, etc) that is listed to be
mounted at an angle(meaning roof angle), ala the Outback DC combiner boxes.
 I want several combiner / discos on the roof and it won’t look very pretty
to have them mounted vertically. Thanks.

Kirk Herander
Vermont Solar Engineering
802.863.1202  fax 802.863.7908
VT RE Incentive Program  Partner
NYSERDA Incentive-eligible Partner
NABCEPTM    Certified Installer



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Re: [RE-wrenches] useful info on wire color coding

[R Ray Walters]

I found utter world wide confusion upon more research on this issue.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Three-phase_electric_power has a table that lists 
color coding for different countries, US is black, red, blue, (common 
practice), 
while our neighbors in Canada, use Red, black, blue.☺  Europe is completely 
wild. 

430.97B requires that the phase arrangement of the legs be ABC from left to 
right in the disconnect box, but no color coding is mentioned. Apparently color 
coding of phases was dropped from the code in 1975. (please correct me on all 
of this, oh fellow older wrenches) 
I found reference to 406.3 E, but I  only have a 1999 code book with me at the 
moment, and that's not in the old code.

I noted that Fluke's 9040 phase rotation meter, has no color coding, just 3 
black leads.
New Mexico practice was often just 3 blacks as well, except for a Delta high 
leg system, where the high leg is required to be marked in Orange (as per code).

http://www.3phasepower.org/3phasewiring.htm also shows black, red, blue for the 
US, so I think that would be the smart way to color code here, even if it's not 
code specified.

As the others pointed out, checking phase rotation, at the terminals as close 
to the equipment as possible before throwing the switch is the most important 
thing. Anywhere along the line, the wires could have been switched, thus 
reversing the phase rotation.

R. Walters
r...@solarray.com
Solar Engineer




On Aug 22, 2010, at 6:52 AM, Richard L Ratico wrote:

> Marco,
> If I understand your question, not sure I do, my answer is, there is no
> requirement for such a relationship.
> 
> Repeat to yourself, what Darryl said:
> Always check rotation either with a rotation meter or with a motor by bumping
> the motor to check its rotation.
> 
> Dick says, ..Pay absolutely no attention to color coding as to how it 
> might
> relate to phase rotation. If you trust 
> some pieces of colored tape, that you did not apply yourself, after checking
> rotation as above, you're bound to get bit in the backside.
> 
> ALWAYS check rotation either with a rotation meter or with a motor by bumping
> the motor to check its rotation.
> 
> Dick Ratico
> Solarwind Electric
> Bradford, VT
> 
> 
> --- you wrote---
> But I am still trying to determine if the black-red-blue and 
> brown-orange-yellow
> sequences are appropriate for clockwise or counter-clockwise phase rotations.
> 
> marco
> --- end of quote ---
> 
> --- Darryl wrote:
> see previous post if looking at the shaft of the motor, CW is clock wise ie
> Black-red-blue but but just because you have thoes colors does not mean it was
> done correctly.^$A0 always check rotation either with a rotation meter or 
> with a
> motor by bumping the motor to check its rotation.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
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Re: [RE-wrenches] roof-mounted AC combiner box

[Kirk Herander, VSE]

Soladeck does not specify their 600 volt, 120 amp listing is ac, dc, or
dual. And yes, an AC rated Outback combiner would be nice.

 

Kirk Herander

Vermont Solar Engineering

802.863.1202

NABCEP(tm) Certified Solar Installer

NYSERDA-eligible Installer

VT Solar Incentive Program Partner

  _  

From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org
[mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of Maverick
Brown [Maverick Solar]
Sent: Sunday, August 22, 2010 10:38 AM
To: RE-wrenches
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] roof-mounted AC combiner box

 

Soladeck can hold 5-6 branches with some added din rail parts. 

 

I have used ac din rail breakers in those Outback and MidNite combiners.
Likely legit and it was wall mounted. 


Thank you,

 

Maverick

 

 

Maverick Brown

BSEET, NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installer R

President & CEO

Maverick Solar Enterprises, Inc.

Office: 512-919-4493

Cell:512-460-9825

 

Sent from an iPhone. 


On Aug 22, 2010, at 8:50 AM, "Kirk Herander, VSE"  wrote:

Hello,

 

I am about to start some larger Enphase systems, and I'm wondering if there
is an  AC combiner out there (outdoor load center, etc) that is listed to be
mounted at an angle(meaning roof angle), ala the Outback DC combiner boxes.
I want several combiner / discos on the roof and it won't look very pretty
to have them mounted vertically. Thanks.

 

Kirk Herander

Vermont Solar Engineering

802.863.1202  fax 802.863.7908

VT RE Incentive Program  Partner

NYSERDA Incentive-eligible Partner

NABCEPTMCertified Installer

 

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Re: [RE-wrenches] roof-mounted AC combiner box

[Kirk Herander, VSE]

One 45 kw, so roughly 15 ac branch circuits, one 26 kw, roughly 10 branch
circuits, roof roughly 20 degree slope on both.

 

Kirk Herander

Vermont Solar Engineering

802.863.1202

NABCEP(tm) Certified Solar Installer

NYSERDA-eligible Installer

VT Solar Incentive Program Partner

  _  

From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org
[mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of Bill Loesch
Sent: Sunday, August 22, 2010 11:17 AM
To: RE-wrenches
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] roof-mounted AC combiner box

 

Hi Kirk,

 

First, a couple of questions:

1) what is "larger Enphase systems" (number of load centers) and

2) what roof angle?

 

Now, if you buy into the hype that, with Enphase, shading is a minor detail,
you may want to consider using something like one or more cupola(s) to mount
the standard load centers upright (and prettier). An AC version of the
Outback combiner would be, IMHO, definitely preferable.

 

Best wishes,

 

Bill Loesch
Solar 1 - Saint Louis Solar
314 631 1094

 

 

- Original Message - 

From: Kirk Herander, VSE   

To: 'RE-wrenches'   

Sent: Sunday, August 22, 2010 8:50 AM

Subject: [RE-wrenches] roof-mounted AC combiner box

 

Hello,

 

I am about to start some larger Enphase systems, and I'm wondering if there
is an  AC combiner out there (outdoor load center, etc) that is listed to be
mounted at an angle(meaning roof angle), ala the Outback DC combiner boxes.
I want several combiner / discos on the roof and it won't look very pretty
to have them mounted vertically. Thanks.

 

Kirk Herander

Vermont Solar Engineering

802.863.1202  fax 802.863.7908

VT RE Incentive Program  Partner

NYSERDA Incentive-eligible Partner

NABCEPTMCertified Installer

 


  _  


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Re: [RE-wrenches] useful info on wire color coding

[Richard L Ratico]

Marco,
If I understand your question, not sure I do, my answer is, there is no
requirement for such a relationship.

Repeat to yourself, what Darryl said:
Always check rotation either with a rotation meter or with a motor by bumping
the motor to check its rotation.

Dick says, ..Pay absolutely no attention to color coding as to how it might
relate to phase rotation. If you trust 
some pieces of colored tape, that you did not apply yourself, after checking
rotation as above, you're bound to get bit in the backside.

ALWAYS check rotation either with a rotation meter or with a motor by bumping
the motor to check its rotation.

Dick Ratico
Solarwind Electric
Bradford, VT


--- you wrote---
But I am still trying to determine if the black-red-blue and brown-orange-yellow
sequences are appropriate for clockwise or counter-clockwise phase rotations.

marco
--- end of quote ---

--- Darryl wrote:
see previous post if looking at the shaft of the motor, CW is clock wise ie
Black-red-blue but but just because you have thoes colors does not mean it was
done correctly.^$A0 always check rotation either with a rotation meter or with a
motor by bumping the motor to check its rotation.












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Re: [RE-wrenches] roof-mounted AC combiner box

[Bill Loesch]

Hi Kirk,

First, a couple of questions:
1) what is "larger Enphase systems" (number of load centers) and
2) what roof angle?

Now, if you buy into the hype that, with Enphase, shading is a minor detail, 
you may want to consider using something like one or more cupola(s) to mount 
the standard load centers upright (and prettier). An AC version of the Outback 
combiner would be, IMHO, definitely preferable.

Best wishes,

Bill Loesch
Solar 1 - Saint Louis Solar
314 631 1094


  - Original Message - 
  From: Kirk Herander, VSE 
  To: 'RE-wrenches' 
  Sent: Sunday, August 22, 2010 8:50 AM
  Subject: [RE-wrenches] roof-mounted AC combiner box


  Hello,

   

  I am about to start some larger Enphase systems, and I'm wondering if there 
is an  AC combiner out there (outdoor load center, etc) that is listed to be 
mounted at an angle(meaning roof angle), ala the Outback DC combiner boxes.  I 
want several combiner / discos on the roof and it won't look very pretty to 
have them mounted vertically. Thanks.

   

  Kirk Herander

  Vermont Solar Engineering

  802.863.1202  fax 802.863.7908

  VT RE Incentive Program  Partner

  NYSERDA Incentive-eligible Partner

  NABCEPTMCertified Installer

   



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Re: [RE-wrenches] roof-mounted AC combiner box

[Maverick Brown [Maverick Solar]]

Soladeck can hold 5-6 branches with some added din rail parts. 

I have used ac din rail breakers in those Outback and MidNite combiners.  
Likely legit and it was wall mounted. 

Thank you,

Maverick


Maverick Brown
BSEET, NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installer ®
President & CEO
Maverick Solar Enterprises, Inc.
Office: 512-919-4493
Cell:512-460-9825

Sent from an iPhone. 

On Aug 22, 2010, at 8:50 AM, "Kirk Herander, VSE"  wrote:

> Hello,
> 
>  
> 
> I am about to start some larger Enphase systems, and I’m wondering if there 
> is an  AC combiner out there (outdoor load center, etc) that is listed to be 
> mounted at an angle(meaning roof angle), ala the Outback DC combiner boxes.  
> I want several combiner / discos on the roof and it won’t look very pretty to 
> have them mounted vertically. Thanks.
> 
>  
> 
> Kirk Herander
> 
> Vermont Solar Engineering
> 
> 802.863.1202  fax 802.863.7908
> 
> VT RE Incentive Program  Partner
> 
> NYSERDA Incentive-eligible Partner
> 
> NABCEPTMCertified Installer
> 
>  
> 
> ___
> List sponsored by Home Power magazine
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> List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org
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> Options & settings:
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[RE-wrenches] roof-mounted AC combiner box

[Kirk Herander, VSE]

Hello,

 

I am about to start some larger Enphase systems, and I'm wondering if there
is an  AC combiner out there (outdoor load center, etc) that is listed to be
mounted at an angle(meaning roof angle), ala the Outback DC combiner boxes.
I want several combiner / discos on the roof and it won't look very pretty
to have them mounted vertically. Thanks.

 

Kirk Herander

Vermont Solar Engineering

802.863.1202  fax 802.863.7908

VT RE Incentive Program  Partner

NYSERDA Incentive-eligible Partner

NABCEPTMCertified Installer

 

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