Re: [RE-wrenches] minimum service
230.79(C): 230.79 Rating of Service Disconnecting Means. The service disconnecting means shall have a rating not less than the calculated load to be carried, determined in accordance with Part III, IV, or V of Article 220, as applicable. In no case shall the rating be lower than specified in 230.79(A), (B), (C), or (D). (A) One-Circuit Installations. For installations to supply only limited loads of a single branch circuit, the service disconnecting means shall have a rating of not less than 15 amperes. (B) Two-Circuit Installations. For installations consisting of not more than two 2-wire branch circuits, the service disconnecting means shall have a rating of not less than 30 amperes. (C) One-Family Dwellings. For a one-family dwelling, the service disconnecting means shall have a rating of not less than 100 amperes, 3-wire. (D) All Others. For all other installations, the service disconnecting means shall have a rating of not less than 60 amperes. Original Message Subject: [RE-wrenches] minimum service From: Marco Mangelsdorf ma...@pvthawaii.com To: 'RE-wrenches' re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Date: 2010/8/27 01:41 I believe that there’s a section the code that states that a residence shall have a minimum 100A service. Can anyone tell me where that is? Thanks, marco ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
[RE-wrenches] Inverter for fire protection pump
Wrenches, Our customer has a fire protection pumping system that operates at 240VAC and 22 amps with a 110 amps starting surge. The pump will only be used for up to 4 hours in an emergency (but hopefully never). The customer wants an inverter and battery (no generator or PV) in case grid power is destroyed by fire. What inverter(s) do you recommend? Thank you very much for sharing your off-grid knowledge. Joel Davidson ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Tight roof layout questions: edge walkway requirements small gap hardware options
This May 2010 UL/NFPA report Fire Fighter Safety and Emergency Response for Solar Power Systems shows eave-to-ridge solar arrays and has a lot of good information for designers. See http://www.nfpa.org/assets/files/PDF/Research/FFTacticsSolarPower.pdf - Original Message - From: Mick Abraham To: RE-wrenches Sent: Thursday, August 26, 2010 5:53 PM Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Tight roof layout questions: edge walkway requirements small gap hardware options The Wrench List participants have again responded with aplomb. Thanks to all for the dozen or so replies. My takeaway from this is that I need to send my roof layouts to the nearby fire department...it's another authority having jurisdiction situation. I received the below mail off list from a fire captain in San Jose. He cannot post to the List so he asked me to post on his behalf. Moderator Michael approved, so Matt Paiss' remarks are copied below. Jolliness, Mick Abraham, Proprietor www.abrahamsolar.com Voice: 970-731-4675 Mick, I wanted to reply to your post. As a firefighter, and an instructor of PV safety for the fire service like Dan Fink, I would like to take a moment to expand on what Dan was eluding to. Firefighters will not always look at an edge-to-edge array and decide to Let it burn just based on the array size. We will take into account the size of the fire, the involvement of the actual structural members, and the potential life risk within the structure before any tactical strategy is implemented. I have written off buildings just based on wind, or available water supply. What a setback (the term being used for walkways) allows is primarily for access to a roof, or rapid egress off a roof when the fire gets out of control, not necessarily for cutting a hole. I teach firefighters to vent on the other side of the ridge from the array. There is no time to remove modules, and while micro-inverters definitely address the safety issues of a 600vdc string, they do not address access or egress. I am not going to recommend that ANY firefighter tear off a module to vent a roof because he thinks a micro-inverter is present. I realize that these new codes are more restrictive, but even wind load zones recommend against edge-to-edge installs. There will be some latitude in the fire codes for setbacks, so I recommend building a good relationship with your local AHJ's. One way of doing this is by demonstrating safe, high quality installs. I have seen too many wire-ties holding up PV wire that will be rubbing against comp shingles for a decade. How confident are you that that will not be a problem? Regards, Matt Paiss Matthew Paiss, Fire Captain San Jose Fire Department 170 W. San Carlos St. San Jose, CA 95113 (831) 566-3057 cell On Thu, Aug 26, 2010 at 12:45 AM, Philip Boutelle philboute...@gmail.com wrote: Just to clarify what is and isn't law in California: the final draft guidelines developed and adopted by Cal Fire are guidelines, not law, unless the local fire/AHJ has adopted them or parts of them into local ordinances. I have heard that in Southern Cal, those guidelines have been adopted all over the place already, but not so in the rest of the state yet. I think the guideline was officially incorporated into the next NEC/NFPA cycle, so it will be law pretty soon. Bill Brooks could probably confirm here on future adoption. Not that any of this helps your Atlanta install -Phil Boutelle Real Goods Solar On Wed, Aug 25, 2010 at 12:38 PM, Max Balchowsky m...@seesolar.com wrote: Mick, here in California the fire department in the various agencies has the final say on clearances. There is a very clear cut standard in place for the state, but we have been successful a few times in getting allowances to vary due to various site conditions. A call to the local AHJ is the place to start. In the early days of our installations (mid 1990's) we used power strut and bolted panels directly to the rails. A lot slower but no gaps between panels. We went from there to designing our own T clamps. There wasn't as many choices then for mounting hardware. Max Balchowsky Design Engineer SEE Systems 1048 Irvine Ave Suite 217 Newport Beach, Ca. 92660 760-403-6810 -- From: Brian Teitelbaum bteitelb...@aeesolar.com To: RE-wrenches re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Sent: Wed, August 25, 2010 11:40:04 AM Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Tight roof layout questions: edge walkway requirements small gap hardware options Hi Mick, To answer part of your post, the DPW Power Rail mid-clamps give you a 3/8” gap between modules, and the SnapNrack mids give you a 1/2 gap. I doubt if that will give you much of a walkway though….
Re: [RE-wrenches] minimum service
The NEC and local utility requirements don't always agree. It is fairly common for the utility to require a minimum 100A service to single-family, duplex, and triplex residences these days. At four-plex, they require a house meter with safety bypass and lower the individual unit minimum to 60A. Matt Lafferty -Original Message- From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of Dave Click Sent: Friday, August 27, 2010 5:10 AM To: RE-wrenches Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] minimum service 230.79(C): 230.79 Rating of Service Disconnecting Means. The service disconnecting means shall have a rating not less than the calculated load to be carried, determined in accordance with Part III, IV, or V of Article 220, as applicable. In no case shall the rating be lower than specified in 230.79(A), (B), (C), or (D). (A) One-Circuit Installations. For installations to supply only limited loads of a single branch circuit, the service disconnecting means shall have a rating of not less than 15 amperes. (B) Two-Circuit Installations. For installations consisting of not more than two 2-wire branch circuits, the service disconnecting means shall have a rating of not less than 30 amperes. (C) One-Family Dwellings. For a one-family dwelling, the service disconnecting means shall have a rating of not less than 100 amperes, 3-wire. (D) All Others. For all other installations, the service disconnecting means shall have a rating of not less than 60 amperes. Original Message Subject: [RE-wrenches] minimum service From: Marco Mangelsdorf ma...@pvthawaii.com To: 'RE-wrenches' re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Date: 2010/8/27 01:41 I believe that there's a section the code that states that a residence shall have a minimum 100A service. Can anyone tell me where that is? Thanks, marco ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] minimum service
Note that the language states min. service disconnect size, and not specifically the size of the service. In the old days we would go round and round w/the AHJ over this in OTG systems. In most cases we could point to the Service Disconnect that was rated at least 100A this being the Main DC breaker while the AC output rarely exceeded 30A @ 120V. However, some did not buy this and wanted 100A of delivered service, at this point here in CA we would have to fall back to Class K regs. This was created to accommodate the numerous OTG homes and cabins that could never meet the conventional UBC standards. Our home was the 1st court test case in the state as at the time a geodesic dome would not meet local codes even though we had blueprints stamped by Bucky Fuller himself. Interestingly, their main issue was that they could not determine where to draw the line between what was wall and roof! From the Solar, Wind and Hydro powered office of Jeff Oldham/Regenerative SOLutions Obama Urges Homeowners to Refinance If you owe under $729k you probably qualify for Obama's Refi Program http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3131/4c77eba71bcf694aa4ast02vuc___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Inverter for fire protection pump
Little beyond a pair of Outbacks, possibly a pair of Magnasine inverters, or a quad stack of Outbacks. R. Walters r...@solarray.com Solar Engineer On Aug 26, 2010, at 2:41 PM, Joel Davidson wrote: Wrenches, Our customer has a fire protection pumping system that operates at 240VAC and 22 amps with a 110 amps starting surge. The pump will only be used for up to 4 hours in an emergency (but hopefully never). The customer wants an inverter and battery (no generator or PV) in case grid power is destroyed by fire. What inverter(s) do you recommend? Thank you very much for sharing your off-grid knowledge. Joel Davidson ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
[RE-wrenches] Dog controller conflict with Outback inverter.
Help! Has anyone delt with RF interference between a dog control device and GVFX3524. It seems that some frequency in the inverter (or maybe the FlexMax 80) is cancelling the emitted signal from a dog control device which shocks the dog when the signal gets weak (dog too far from house). Every time the inverter starts to sell, the collar on the dog starts shocking the animal. Our only possible solution so far is to build a Faraday cage around the inverter to see if the interference is reduces sufficiently. I have been looking at brass mesh, aluminum window screen, and copper mesh. Any ideas? John Blittersdorf Central Vermont Solar Wind. ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Dog controller conflict with Outback inverter.
John, Which brand of wireless containment system ? Petsafe, etc ? Knowing the operating frequency of the transmitter will aid in determining a solution. Any other info on the wireless containment system, .ie. location of transmitter, location of the inverter, range setting of the transmitter ? Poor dog, it shouldn't be shocked because renewable energy is being shared with the neighbors. Cheers Darren Emmons North Bend, WA cvso...@aol.com wrote: Help! Has anyone delt with RF interference between a dog control device and GVFX3524. It seems that some frequency in the inverter (or maybe the FlexMax 80) is cancelling the emitted signal from a dog control device which shocks the dog when the signal gets weak (dog too far from house). Every time the inverter starts to sell, the collar on the dog starts shocking the animal. Our only possible solution so far is to build a Faraday cage around the inverter to see if the interference is reduces sufficiently. I have been looking at brass mesh, aluminum window screen, and copper mesh. Any ideas? John Blittersdorf Central Vermont Solar Wind. ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Dog controller conflict with Outback inverter.
On 8/27/2010 7:51 PM, cvso...@aol.com wrote: Help! Has anyone delt with RF interference between a dog control device and GVFX3524. It seems that some frequency in the inverter (or maybe the FlexMax 80) is cancelling the emitted signal from a dog control device which shocks the dog when the signal gets weak (dog too far from house). Every time the inverter starts to sell, the collar on the dog starts shocking the animal. Our only possible solution so far is to build a Faraday cage around the inverter to see if the interference is reduces sufficiently. I have been looking at brass mesh, aluminum window screen, and copper mesh. Any ideas? John Blittersdorf Central Vermont Solar Wind. First, I am quite surprised (Shocked actually !), that the design of this dog shock collar would allow it to shock without the proper coding from the transmitter, weak signal or not. I would not rule out calling the company that makes the shock collar too, and their EMI susceptibility. Maybe they have seen this problem before and can have you change a code or might even replace with more secure unit ? The interference that you might get from an inverter or charge controller just shouldn't have this effect. The lower the frequency of the dog collar signal, the smaller the mesh size you can get away with. But that assumes the RFI is coming directly from the inverter or controller itself. It's most likely coming from the wiring. One thing to try, that is, to rule out (or in) the charge controller is to lower the sell voltage so that it will sell for a few moments at night (from the batteries), when the CC would not be supplying power and radiating. Hopefully you can test this without the use of the dog having to tell you when it is being shocked ! That's my input for tonight. I'm interested in what the dog collar company has to say, for sure. boB ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
