[RE-wrenches] Outback FNDC

[Hugh]

HI Hugh and all
As Hugh knows the Outback FNDC was meant for such operation, Apollo 
can track the SOC but can not control off SOC.




I have been studying the FlexmaxDC manual and it is a wonderful 
measurement instrument, but it has no direct communication with the 
charge controller (set-points) that I can see, so either the user has 
to be part of the process or you need to use the multifunction 
auxiliary relay to intervene in the charging process in some way.


Anyway all these fancy devices are much too expensive and complex for 
a small unattended telemetry site system using an AGM battery charged 
by wind and solar power.

--
Hugh Piggott

Scoraig
http://www.scoraigwind.co.uk
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Re: [RE-wrenches] AGM battery charging, more details

[Hugh]

Hi Jamie,

Thanks for the link. I find the Rolls/Surrette instructions puzzling. 
They suggest a bulk phase at I1 (presumably 0.25xC20 which is fine), 
followed by an absorb phase " The charger should maintain the voltage 
U0 until the current tapers to I1"  This current I1 makes no sense to 
me in the second stage, but the graph shows current dropping to 
0.012xC20 which does make sense and corresponds to the Fullriver 
instructions linked by Larry.


The proper charging procedure clearly requires that the 
charger/regulator measures the charging current (not just the PV 
current and/or wind/hydro current, since there may be a load).


My questions to the Wrenches List is: "What hardware do wrenches use 
to regulate the charge on an AGM battery?"  Does everyone use this 
Blue Sky Energy device?  Is it possible to use AGM batteries with a 
conventional diversion controller such as the Morningstar Tristar, 
and if so how do you determine the transition from 2.45 V/cell to 2.3 
V/cell?  Morningstar offer a timed transition, but without knowledge 
of current or of SOC this is rather less precise.


Both of the charging methods in the agm-faqs linked below (and in the 
Fullriver document) require measurement of the charging current to 
determine the correct transition from one stage to the next. 
Measurement of dV/dt is also suggested in the case of constant 
current charging.  Who actually follows these guidelines, and can AGM 
batteries operate successfully without?


thanks!

Hugh


At 18:41 -0300 25/4/11, James Surrette wrote:

Content-Type: text/html; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Description: HTML

Hi Hugh,


Here is the charging information for our AGMs.


Please let us know if you need anything else.


http://www.surrette.com/content/agm-faqs


Regards,,


Jamie

 "Starlight Solar, Larry Crutcher"  
4/25/2011 6:04 PM >>>

Hi Hugh,

An AGM battery is considered full when the current drops below a specified
amount. Lifeline, for instance, is considered full when current is less than
0.5 amps per 100AH. The Blue Sky Energy IPN Pro Remote
http://www.blueskyenergyinc.com/products/details/ipn_proremote/ will 
allow

you to program the transition into float mode based on the amount of current
flowing through a shunt. This can be very useful for your project that
involves opportunity charging. Multiple charge sources can be monitored by
the IPN Pro simultaneously. For us, it is the most ideal charger for VRLA
batteries.

Here's a link to some charging instructions for the Fullriver AGM:
http://www.fullriver.com/products/admin/upfile/Charginginstruction.pdf

Larry


- Original Message -
From: "Hugh" 
To: "RE-wrenches" 
Sent: Sunday, April 24, 2011 12:11 AM
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] AGM battery charging, more details


| Thanks, Larry for the detailed response
| >
| >
| >Generally, the manufacturers charge recommendations should be followed.
|
| Yes but the issue I have is to know when and how to switch from
| absorption to float.  The Tristar has its own decision process but is
| it correct?  And if not then are the settings suitable.
|
| >  If you take away the red paint, I believe the Rolls AGM is the
| >Fullriver DC series battery. We started selling Fullriver last year
| >and I was surprised to find the very high absorb voltage
| >recommendation. For the DC400-6 (415AH) in cycle use they recommend
| >charging at 29 to 29.8 volts and float at 27.6 @25C! That is the
| >highest AGM voltage settings I have seen from any manufacturer.
|
| That's my worry.
|
| >
| >My thinking about AGM's is that the float voltage and transition
| >current are much more important factors than absorb voltage and
| >current.
|
| Transition current is not in the vocabulary of the Tristar
| controller.  I am not aware of a product that has this feature aside
| from maybe some inverters.   I have read in an Outback manual that
| you should program the absorb time based on charge current
| measurements, but the logic of this depends on the battery being
| 'flat' to the same degree at the start of each charge - whereas wind
| and solar charging is not like that.
|
| >For most AGM's, initial charge current is almost unlimited. However,
| >Fullriver recommends current limiting and constant voltage for the
| >bulk/absorb cycle. Their current limit is .15 to .35*C20 rate. BTW,
| >make sure to adjust the temp. comp to 3mV/C/C for float. That is
| >lower than most.
|
| Tristar default is 5 mV/C/C but can be modified by RS232 lead and
| software intervention.
|
| >
| >Equipment in a 24 volt system should be fine up to 32 to 33 volts.
| >Check the specs.
|
| It's not me that has the problem it's the telemetry engineers.  I
| assume they read the manual.  But reduced temp comp helps.
|
| >
| >What I said about equalizing was that I had done it twice to my
| >person

Re: [RE-wrenches] Single phase to three phase interconnect

[Hans Frederickson]

Eric,

For a 6kW system on a reasonable size commercial service, it shouldn't be a
problem to stack your 2 inverters on one or two legs of the 3-phase service.
Loads are never perfectly balanced, so synchronous generators don't need to
be either, up to a point. Ask the utility if you can feed the 6kW in on one
leg. They'll look at their transformer for the service in question and make
a decision. If they let you do it, just try to feed in on the most heavily
loaded leg of the 3-phase service.

 

Regards,

-Hans

 

From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org
[mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of Eric Thomas
Sent: Monday, April 25, 2011 11:01 AM
To: re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org
Subject: [RE-wrenches] Single phase to three phase interconnect

 

While commercial solar work is newer to me, im surprised this hasn't been
addressed very much in our forum: Interconnecting single phase inverters to
three phase services. We are laying out a 6kW system using Silicon Energy
Cascade modules and Aurora PVI inverters (either 2 or 3 PVI 3.0's). The
challenge is finding a way to easily tie two of these inverters into the
existing 3phase service. I've been reading up on Sunny Boys tech notes and
on this forum about imbalance and such, but im still not comfortable enough
with tie in. Due to the string configuration options, I can add a third
inverter and use a three phase subpanel to aggregate the inverters then tie
them in. But adding a third inverter seems like a goofy solution. In looking
at available equipment, transformers, phase converters etc, I can't seem to
find the right fit. Any ideas?

This system does not have a three phase inverter option due to Made in WA
req's. 

Thanks!

Eric Thomas
Solar Epiphany LLC

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Re: [RE-wrenches] AGM battery charging, more details

[Starlight Solar, Larry Crutcher]

Hello Jamie,

I noticed that you list the option of the IUoU and IUI methods of charging. For 
use in a PV solar renewable energy system, what charge method do you recommend? 

Best Regards,
Larry Crutcher
General Manager
Starlight Solar Power Systems
11881 S Fortuna Road, #210
Yuma, AZ 85367

Phone
(928) 342-9103 

powered by STARLIGHTT


- Original Message - 
  From: James Surrette 
  To: RE-wrenches 
  Sent: Monday, April 25, 2011 2:41 PM
  Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] AGM battery charging, more details


  Hi Hugh, 



  Here is the charging information for our AGMs. 



  Please let us know if you need anything else. 



  http://www.surrette.com/content/agm-faqs 



  Regards,, 



  Jamie


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Re: [RE-wrenches] AGM battery charging, more details

[James Surrette]

Hi Hugh, 

Here is the charging information for our AGMs. 

Please let us know if you need anything else. 

http://www.surrette.com/content/agm-faqs 

Regards,, 

Jamie

>>> "Starlight Solar, Larry Crutcher"  4/25/2011 6:04 
>>> PM >>>
Hi Hugh,

An AGM battery is considered full when the current drops below a specified
amount. Lifeline, for instance, is considered full when current is less than
0.5 amps per 100AH. The Blue Sky Energy IPN Pro Remote
http://www.blueskyenergyinc.com/products/details/ipn_proremote/ will allow
you to program the transition into float mode based on the amount of current
flowing through a shunt. This can be very useful for your project that
involves opportunity charging. Multiple charge sources can be monitored by
the IPN Pro simultaneously. For us, it is the most ideal charger for VRLA
batteries.

Here's a link to some charging instructions for the Fullriver AGM:
http://www.fullriver.com/products/admin/upfile/Charginginstruction.pdf

Larry


- Original Message -
From: "Hugh" 
To: "RE-wrenches" 
Sent: Sunday, April 24, 2011 12:11 AM
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] AGM battery charging, more details


| Thanks, Larry for the detailed response
| >
| >
| >Generally, the manufacturers charge recommendations should be followed.
|
| Yes but the issue I have is to know when and how to switch from
| absorption to float.  The Tristar has its own decision process but is
| it correct?  And if not then are the settings suitable.
|
| >  If you take away the red paint, I believe the Rolls AGM is the
| >Fullriver DC series battery. We started selling Fullriver last year
| >and I was surprised to find the very high absorb voltage
| >recommendation. For the DC400-6 (415AH) in cycle use they recommend
| >charging at 29 to 29.8 volts and float at 27.6 @25C! That is the
| >highest AGM voltage settings I have seen from any manufacturer.
|
| That's my worry.
|
| >
| >My thinking about AGM's is that the float voltage and transition
| >current are much more important factors than absorb voltage and
| >current.
|
| Transition current is not in the vocabulary of the Tristar
| controller.  I am not aware of a product that has this feature aside
| from maybe some inverters.   I have read in an Outback manual that
| you should program the absorb time based on charge current
| measurements, but the logic of this depends on the battery being
| 'flat' to the same degree at the start of each charge - whereas wind
| and solar charging is not like that.
|
| >For most AGM's, initial charge current is almost unlimited. However,
| >Fullriver recommends current limiting and constant voltage for the
| >bulk/absorb cycle. Their current limit is .15 to .35*C20 rate. BTW,
| >make sure to adjust the temp. comp to 3mV/C/C for float. That is
| >lower than most.
|
| Tristar default is 5 mV/C/C but can be modified by RS232 lead and
| software intervention.
|
| >
| >Equipment in a 24 volt system should be fine up to 32 to 33 volts.
| >Check the specs.
|
| It's not me that has the problem it's the telemetry engineers.  I
| assume they read the manual.  But reduced temp comp helps.
|
| >
| >What I said about equalizing was that I had done it twice to my
| >personal AGM battery bank. After the battery is fully charged (<0.2A
| >per 100ah @ C20) I put each battery, not each string, on a current
| >controlled charger. The current setting is .05*C20.
|
| That is 5 amps for a 100Ah battery?  Does this not make them gas?
|
| >I don't use voltage regulation when I do this. Once the battery
| >reaches 2.58 V/Cell, I charge for about 4 more hours always
| >monitoring battery temperature. I use this process to recover AGM
| >battery capacity and it has been mostly successful with all
| >brands. No more puzzle.
|
| Thanks - AGMs are a puzzle to me but you make it sound pretty simple.
| I do still have an issue with controlling the charge rate using
| existing technology on an opportunity charging system where the
| battery may be in any state of charge when the wind starts blowing,
| or sun starts to shine.
|
| best wishes,
| --
| Hugh Piggott

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Re: [RE-wrenches] AGM battery charging, more details

[Starlight Solar, Larry Crutcher]

Hi Hugh,

An AGM battery is considered full when the current drops below a specified
amount. Lifeline, for instance, is considered full when current is less than
0.5 amps per 100AH. The Blue Sky Energy IPN Pro Remote
http://www.blueskyenergyinc.com/products/details/ipn_proremote/ will allow
you to program the transition into float mode based on the amount of current
flowing through a shunt. This can be very useful for your project that
involves opportunity charging. Multiple charge sources can be monitored by
the IPN Pro simultaneously. For us, it is the most ideal charger for VRLA
batteries.

Here's a link to some charging instructions for the Fullriver AGM:
http://www.fullriver.com/products/admin/upfile/Charginginstruction.pdf

Larry


- Original Message - 
From: "Hugh" 
To: "RE-wrenches" 
Sent: Sunday, April 24, 2011 12:11 AM
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] AGM battery charging, more details


| Thanks, Larry for the detailed response
| >
| >
| >Generally, the manufacturers charge recommendations should be followed.
|
| Yes but the issue I have is to know when and how to switch from
| absorption to float.  The Tristar has its own decision process but is
| it correct?  And if not then are the settings suitable.
|
| >  If you take away the red paint, I believe the Rolls AGM is the
| >Fullriver DC series battery. We started selling Fullriver last year
| >and I was surprised to find the very high absorb voltage
| >recommendation. For the DC400-6 (415AH) in cycle use they recommend
| >charging at 29 to 29.8 volts and float at 27.6 @25C! That is the
| >highest AGM voltage settings I have seen from any manufacturer.
|
| That's my worry.
|
| >
| >My thinking about AGM's is that the float voltage and transition
| >current are much more important factors than absorb voltage and
| >current.
|
| Transition current is not in the vocabulary of the Tristar
| controller.  I am not aware of a product that has this feature aside
| from maybe some inverters.   I have read in an Outback manual that
| you should program the absorb time based on charge current
| measurements, but the logic of this depends on the battery being
| 'flat' to the same degree at the start of each charge - whereas wind
| and solar charging is not like that.
|
| >For most AGM's, initial charge current is almost unlimited. However,
| >Fullriver recommends current limiting and constant voltage for the
| >bulk/absorb cycle. Their current limit is .15 to .35*C20 rate. BTW,
| >make sure to adjust the temp. comp to 3mV/C/C for float. That is
| >lower than most.
|
| Tristar default is 5 mV/C/C but can be modified by RS232 lead and
| software intervention.
|
| >
| >Equipment in a 24 volt system should be fine up to 32 to 33 volts.
| >Check the specs.
|
| It's not me that has the problem it's the telemetry engineers.  I
| assume they read the manual.  But reduced temp comp helps.
|
| >
| >What I said about equalizing was that I had done it twice to my
| >personal AGM battery bank. After the battery is fully charged (<0.2A
| >per 100ah @ C20) I put each battery, not each string, on a current
| >controlled charger. The current setting is .05*C20.
|
| That is 5 amps for a 100Ah battery?  Does this not make them gas?
|
| >I don't use voltage regulation when I do this. Once the battery
| >reaches 2.58 V/Cell, I charge for about 4 more hours always
| >monitoring battery temperature. I use this process to recover AGM
| >battery capacity and it has been mostly successful with all
| >brands. No more puzzle.
|
| Thanks - AGMs are a puzzle to me but you make it sound pretty simple.
| I do still have an issue with controlling the charge rate using
| existing technology on an opportunity charging system where the
| battery may be in any state of charge when the wind starts blowing,
| or sun starts to shine.
|
| best wishes,
| -- 
| Hugh Piggott

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Re: [RE-wrenches] Single phase to three phase interconnect

[Wilco Vercoelen]

Eric,

In order to connect single phase to three phase you probably need phase
sensing on all three legs in order to disconnect the inverter from legs
connected if one leg fails.
Also, in Ontario under microFIT & FIT we typically have to balance power
evenly across each leg as far as feeding power into grid on three phase.
That is why utility companies basically require three phase inverters on
existing three phase lines such as PowerOne or Fronius.

If single phase is only available, you can connect single phase up to 100kW
I believe (after connection impact assessment is done of course)

Not allowing three phase inverters when three phase is available is a puzzle
to me. Not very cost effective and overcomplicating the system.
 

Thanks.

Kind regards,
Wilco Vercoelen
President


Dommelvalley Green Power - Solar Energy Solutions
Barrie, Ontario
Canada



  _  

From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org
[mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of Eric Thomas
Sent: April-25-11 14:01
To: re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org
Subject: [RE-wrenches] Single phase to three phase interconnect

 

While commercial solar work is newer to me, im surprised this hasn't been
addressed very much in our forum: Interconnecting single phase inverters to
three phase services. We are laying out a 6kW system using Silicon Energy
Cascade modules and Aurora PVI inverters (either 2 or 3 PVI 3.0's). The
challenge is finding a way to easily tie two of these inverters into the
existing 3phase service. I've been reading up on Sunny Boys tech notes and
on this forum about imbalance and such, but im still not comfortable enough
with tie in. Due to the string configuration options, I can add a third
inverter and use a three phase subpanel to aggregate the inverters then tie
them in. But adding a third inverter seems like a goofy solution. In looking
at available equipment, transformers, phase converters etc, I can't seem to
find the right fit. Any ideas?

This system does not have a three phase inverter option due to Made in WA
req's. 

Thanks!

Eric Thomas
Solar Epiphany LLC

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Re: [RE-wrenches] Enphase Inards - Any Guesses?

[boB Gudgel]

On 4/25/2011 8:56 AM, Mark Frye wrote:


Folks,

I have an Enphase D380 micro inverter sitting on my workbench (such as 
it is).


With my ohm meter I can detect continuity between the chasis and the 
AC equipment ground pin, between the chasis and the DC- pin, and 
between the AC equipment ground pin and DC- pin.


My assumption is that each of these three is electrically identical 
and solidly connected inside the inverter. But, I don't know.


The folks at Enphase tech support will not tell me whether or not this 
is true.


Anyone out there have any ideas about this?




I believe those inverters may have internal Ground Fault Protection and 
would connect, at least,
the DC negative to Chassis (earth) ground via a resettable (hopefully 
resettable) fuse.


One could measure this if they knew what they were doing.

Not sure about the AC side continuity.

boB






Mark Frye
Berkeley Solar Electric Systems
303 Redbud Way
Nevada City,  CA 95959
(530) 401-8024
_www.berkeleysolar.com_ 


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Re: [RE-wrenches] Single phase to three phase interconnect

[David Brearley]

Eric,

Marvin Hamon, a PE in CA, wrote an article for SolarPro magazine on this
topic that may be of assistance:

http://solarprofessional.com/article/?file=SP3_1_pg66_Hamon&search=

David Brearley, Senior Technical Editor
SolarPro magazine 
NABCEP Certified PV Installer 
david.brear...@solarprofessional.com
Direct: 541.261.6545




On 4/25/11 1:01 PM, "Eric Thomas"  wrote:

> While commercial solar work is newer to me, im surprised this hasn't been
> addressed very much in our forum: Interconnecting single phase inverters to
> three phase services. We are laying out a 6kW system using Silicon Energy
> Cascade modules and Aurora PVI inverters (either 2 or 3 PVI 3.0's). The
> challenge is finding a way to easily tie two of these inverters into the
> existing 3phase service. I've been reading up on Sunny Boys tech notes and on
> this forum about imbalance and such, but im still not comfortable enough with
> tie in. Due to the string configuration options, I can add a third inverter
> and use a three phase subpanel to aggregate the inverters then tie them in.
> But adding a third inverter seems like a goofy solution. In looking at
> available equipment, transformers, phase converters etc, I can't seem to find
> the right fit. Any ideas?
> 
> This system does not have a three phase inverter option due to Made in WA
> req's. 
> 
> Thanks!
> 
> Eric Thomas
> Solar Epiphany LLC
> 
> 
> ___
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[RE-wrenches] Single phase to three phase interconnect

[Eric Thomas]

While commercial solar work is newer to me, im surprised this hasn't been
addressed very much in our forum: Interconnecting single phase inverters to
three phase services. We are laying out a 6kW system using Silicon Energy
Cascade modules and Aurora PVI inverters (either 2 or 3 PVI 3.0's). The
challenge is finding a way to easily tie two of these inverters into the
existing 3phase service. I've been reading up on Sunny Boys tech notes and
on this forum about imbalance and such, but im still not comfortable enough
with tie in. Due to the string configuration options, I can add a third
inverter and use a three phase subpanel to aggregate the inverters then tie
them in. But adding a third inverter seems like a goofy solution. In looking
at available equipment, transformers, phase converters etc, I can't seem to
find the right fit. Any ideas?

This system does not have a three phase inverter option due to Made in WA
req's.

Thanks!

Eric Thomas
Solar Epiphany LLC
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[RE-wrenches] Conergy Solar Linea

[Mark Dickson]

Hello Wrenches, 

This summer we will be installing a system utilizing Conergy's Solar Linea
racking system.  The racks use driven posts that should result in an
aesthetically pleasing array that follows the contours of the land.  Have
any of you had experience installing this system?  Any comments good or bad?
Tips?

 

Best regards,

 

Mark Dickson,

NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installer T

Oasis Montana Inc.

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[RE-wrenches] Enphase Inards - Any Guesses?

[Mark Frye]

Folks,

I have an Enphase D380 micro inverter sitting on my workbench (such as it
is).

With my ohm meter I can detect continuity between the chasis and the AC
equipment ground pin, between the chasis and the DC- pin, and between the AC
equipment ground pin and DC- pin.

My assumption is that each of these three is electrically identical and
solidly connected inside the inverter. But, I don't know.

The folks at Enphase tech support will not tell me whether or not this is
true.

Anyone out there have any ideas about this?
 
Mark Frye
Berkeley Solar Electric Systems
303 Redbud Way
Nevada City,  CA 95959
(530) 401-8024
www.berkeleysolar.com 

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Re: [RE-wrenches] AGM battery charging, more details

[Darryl Thayer]

HI Hugh and all
As Hugh knows the Outback FNDC was meant for such operation, Apollo can track 
the SOC but can not control off SOC.   

 





From: Hugh 
To: al...@positiveenergysolar.com
Cc: RE-wrenches 
Sent: Mon, April 25, 2011 1:27:00 AM
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] AGM battery charging, more details

At 15:30 -0600 24/4/11, Allan Sindelar wrote:
> The Solar Boost products actually used an external shunt option, tying to the 
>Kelvin terminals on the shunt to measure current and allow compensatory 
>current; 
>a dip switch controlled internal/external sensing. Modern digital controllers 
>apparently rely solely on voltage variations.

Thanks Allan,

So most modern controllers cannot sense the battery current and therefore 
cannot 
use this as a cue to switch to floating the battery. I confess that I had never 
heard of the Solar Boost external shunt but since most of my systems have an 
element of wind and/or hydro this would not be an option for me.  Without this 
external shunt, a controller is not going to know the charging current (since 
part of the current will be going to the load).  Without knowing the current, 
how can you do a proper job of switching to float and avoiding drying out the 
battery?

I don't understand how people can use sealed batteries successfully on RE 
systems.  I avoid them when I can and I usually set the absorption voltage too 
low, for safety, if I do have to.  But I am keen to learn about a successful 
approach that does charge the battery properly without drying it out.
-- Hugh Piggott

Scoraig
http://www.scoraigwind.co.uk
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Oatey and Standoff vs QuickmountPV Labor

[Darryl Thayer]

Yes last year I repaired a solar thermal system that I had installed in 1979,  The unprotected rubber flashings we gone, the ones that I had for some reason put Aluminum foil tape over were still servicable.  I did not photograph.  
Darryl



From: Bill Loesch To: RE-wrenches Sent: Mon, April 25, 2011 4:57:14 AMSubject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Oatey and Standoff vs QuickmountPV Labor


Mark and Jamie,
 
Also, not an answer to your labor question, but...
 
The flexible flashings you describe are inherently less durable than their non flex cousins. As you are well aware, the culprit is sun or perhaps more accurately, UV exposure. One solar thermal install which was still going strong some 20+ years later had painted those flex flashings and there was no deterioration that I could discern. Choosing the wrong paint could, I am sure, produce accelerated deterioration over doing nothing. As usual, caveat emptor.
 
Even with tightly spaced modules, there is still a gap (window) for the sun to peek through. How do you inspect those interior flex flashings during the life of the system or roof?
 
Bill LoeschSolar 1 - Saint Louis Solar314 631 1094
 
 

- Original Message - 
From: Mark Frye 
To: 'RE-wrenches' 
Sent: Friday, April 22, 2011 9:07 PM
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Oatey and Standoff vs QuickmountPV Labor

Jamie,
 
You did not ask, but I am offering:
 
I find the Oatey flashing with the elastomeric boot to be a somewhat suspect product. I know, I knowyou see them everywhere on the finest tract homesbut
 
My everlasting image is of 6 or 7 of them peeping out below the last row of modules..except..there wasn't any rubber there anymore...all rotted out.
 
Back in the day I went for a custom rolled cone flashings that I could caulk into the post and slide a rubber counter-flashing over the whole thing.
 
Overkillperhaps.
 
Best of Luck.
Mark Frye Berkeley Solar Electric Systems 303 Redbud Way Nevada City,  CA 95959 (530) 401-8024 www.berkeleysolar.com  
 


From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of Jamie JohnsonSent: Friday, April 22, 2011 6:59 PMTo: RE-wrenchesSubject: [RE-wrenches] Oatey and Standoff vs QuickmountPV Labor

Wrenches,
 
We have been asked to quote a large number of installs on comp shingle roofs for an individual owner who requires Oatey flashing's with a 3" standoff on all installations.  
 
For the past 2 years we have installed the QuickmountPV product on comp shingle roofs and are use to the labor rate quoted for that, my notes from 2+ years ago seem to reflect a 20+% savings in labor by using the QMPV vs the Oatey and standoff method.
 
Since my notes may not be accurate, I am curious if you are willing to share, what the rest of you have experienced with the labor difference?
 
Thanks in advance.

Jamie JohnsonNABCEP Certified PV Technical Sales ProfessionalNABCEP Certified Solar PV InstallerGeneral Manager
SOLAR POWER ELECTRIC


 



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Re: [RE-wrenches] Oatey and Standoff vs QuickmountPV Labor

[Bill Loesch]

Mark and Jamie,

Also, not an answer to your labor question, but...

The flexible flashings you describe are inherently less durable than their non 
flex cousins. As you are well aware, the culprit is sun or perhaps more 
accurately, UV exposure. One solar thermal install which was still going strong 
some 20+ years later had painted those flex flashings and there was no 
deterioration that I could discern. Choosing the wrong paint could, I am sure, 
produce accelerated deterioration over doing nothing. As usual, caveat emptor.

Even with tightly spaced modules, there is still a gap (window) for the sun to 
peek through. How do you inspect those interior flex flashings during the life 
of the system or roof?

Bill Loesch
Solar 1 - Saint Louis Solar
314 631 1094


  - Original Message - 
  From: Mark Frye 
  To: 'RE-wrenches' 
  Sent: Friday, April 22, 2011 9:07 PM
  Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Oatey and Standoff vs QuickmountPV Labor


  Jamie,

  You did not ask, but I am offering:

  I find the Oatey flashing with the elastomeric boot to be a somewhat suspect 
product. I know, I knowyou see them everywhere on the finest tract 
homesbut

  My everlasting image is of 6 or 7 of them peeping out below the last row of 
modules..except..there wasn't any rubber there anymore...all rotted out.

  Back in the day I went for a custom rolled cone flashings that I could caulk 
into the post and slide a rubber counter-flashing over the whole thing.

  Overkillperhaps.

  Best of Luck.

  Mark Frye 
  Berkeley Solar Electric Systems 
  303 Redbud Way 
  Nevada City,  CA 95959 
  (530) 401-8024 
  www.berkeleysolar.com  




--
  From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org 
[mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of Jamie Johnson
  Sent: Friday, April 22, 2011 6:59 PM
  To: RE-wrenches
  Subject: [RE-wrenches] Oatey and Standoff vs QuickmountPV Labor


  Wrenches,

  We have been asked to quote a large number of installs on comp shingle roofs 
for an individual owner who requires Oatey flashing's with a 3" standoff on all 
installations.  

  For the past 2 years we have installed the QuickmountPV product on comp 
shingle roofs and are use to the labor rate quoted for that, my notes from 2+ 
years ago seem to reflect a 20+% savings in labor by using the QMPV vs the 
Oatey and standoff method.

  Since my notes may not be accurate, I am curious if you are willing to share, 
what the rest of you have experienced with the labor difference?

  Thanks in advance.



  Jamie Johnson
  NABCEP Certified PV Technical Sales Professional
  NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installer

  General Manager
  SOLAR POWER ELECTRIC




--


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