Re: [RE-wrenches] Inverters and cold temps?
Exeltech's AC Module inverters are NTRL certfied to -40C. --- On Mon, 1/16/12, benn kilburn b...@daystarsolar.ca wrote: From: benn kilburn b...@daystarsolar.ca Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Inverters and cold temps? To: Wrenches re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Date: Monday, January 16, 2012, 7:47 PM Jessie, Dan with Exeltech just gave some good insight to cold weather inverter capacitor tolerances in the thread Electrolytic Caps vs. Thin Film Caps. We had -26C here (Edmonton) today and the next couple of days are looking like minimum -30C with windchill on top of that. This is pretty typical at least a few times a winter season. I have one install, circa 2006, with two SMA's outside and have no issues. I know that Enphase and SUNERGY PV Inverters are rated to -40C, but no others come to mind. I would stick to the manufacturers that spec their equipment for -40C. divbundling up for the cold...benn DayStar Renewable Energy Inc. benn@daystarsolar.ca780-906-7807 HAVE A SUNNY DAY From: dahlso...@gmail.com Date: Mon, 16 Jan 2012 18:21:17 -0600 To: re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Subject: [RE-wrenches] Inverters and cold temps? All, I live in an area where -40F is not uncommon and where -60F has been seen. (northern MN) I have yet to see an inverter that can be placed in locations like this and not exceed the warranty temp extremes. Enphase has a cold temp acceptability of -40F last time I checked, and when I called they told me about an install in Antarctica using micros. I have installed inverters outside in the twin cities, not up here. What do you think about this problem? Thanks as always, Jesse Sent from my iPhone ___ List sponsored b y Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org -Inline Attachment Follows- ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Request for Gennie Recommendation
Bob, Thanks for the heads up. Dropping valves sounds alarming. This one likely has its 400 hours, as the crew that is working on the house runs it all day to operate tools and space heat. Maybe like the man falling out of a 40 story building was heard to say, passing the 20th floor, so far so good! Are you disillusioned with Honda? If so, why? Thanks, Drake At 08:23 PM 1/16/2012, you wrote: Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary==_NextPart_000_00FE_01CCD48C.B6F43770 Content-Language: en-us I am a reformed Honda Engine dealer, last that I knew Honda built NO engines to run on propane. It seems that after 400 or so hours they had a bad habit of dropping a valve from lack of lubrication (or so I ASSume) to the valve train I have seen 3 or 4 engines do that, and I have only seen 4 or 5 Honda engines with propane conversions. There are companies that do the conversions and just handle the warranty on their own. Just another opinion, Bob Ellison From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of Drake Sent: Monday, January 16, 2012 6:50 PM To: al...@positiveenergysolar.com; RE-wrenches Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Request for Gennie Recommendation I'm installing a small off grid system that has an existing generator. It is a Honda EU 6500 converted to run on propane. It is sweet. I haven't found out yet if the conversion cancelled the warranty. This would be too small for Allen's current project, but it seems like a good solution for many systems. Drake Chamberlin ATHENS ELECTRIC LLC OH License 44810 CO license 3773 NABCEP Certified PV ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org Drake Chamberlin ATHENS ELECTRIC LLC OH License 44810 CO license 3773 NABCEP Certified PV ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Request for Gennie Recommendation
No I am not disillusioned at all, they make the best small engines I have ever used. That said as with most things you get what you pay for. They may have changed things to work better with propane. I know there is a CHP unit being made in Utica NY, that uses a small Honda on Natural Gas to combine heat output and power in houses. Bob Ellison From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of Drake Sent: Tuesday, January 17, 2012 9:19 AM To: RE-wrenches Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Request for Gennie Recommendation Bob, Thanks for the heads up. Dropping valves sounds alarming. This one likely has its 400 hours, as the crew that is working on the house runs it all day to operate tools and space heat. Maybe like the man falling out of a 40 story building was heard to say, passing the 20th floor, so far so good! Are you disillusioned with Honda? If so, why? Thanks, Drake At 08:23 PM 1/16/2012, you wrote: Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary==_NextPart_000_00FE_01CCD48C.B6F43770 Content-Language: en-us I am a reformed Honda Engine dealer, last that I knew Honda built NO engines to run on propane. It seems that after 400 or so hours they had a bad habit of dropping a valve from lack of lubrication (or so I ASSume) to the valve train I have seen 3 or 4 engines do that, and I have only seen 4 or 5 Honda engines with propane conversions. There are companies that do the conversions and just handle the warranty on their own. Just another opinion, Bob Ellison From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org [ mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org ] On Behalf Of Drake Sent: Monday, January 16, 2012 6:50 PM To: al...@positiveenergysolar.com; RE-wrenches Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Request for Gennie Recommendation I'm installing a small off grid system that has an existing generator. It is a Honda EU 6500 converted to run on propane. It is sweet. I haven't found out yet if the conversion cancelled the warranty. This would be too small for Allen's current project, but it seems like a good solution for many systems. Drake Chamberlin ATHENS ELECTRIC LLC OH License 44810 CO license 3773 NABCEP Certified PV ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org http://www.members.re-wrenches.org/ Drake Chamberlin ATHENS ELECTRIC LLC OH License 44810 CO license 3773 NABCEP Certified PV ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
[RE-wrenches] battery buss bars
Hi All, Where do I find buss bars for a battery parallel problem? I've got to fix a brand new ( not me) system, that has 4 sets of L-16's at 24v. Yea yea why didn't they go to 48? So I want to use buss bars to parallel them, and looking for premade ones. Thanks in advance, Jay Peltz power ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
[RE-wrenches] 24 vs. 48
Not really on topic to Jay's question, but... Is 48v always better than 24v? How important is bulk charging current to overall battery life? In some cases, isn't it better to use a 24v inverter/charger which can develop a higher charge current for a battery bank that has a higher AH rating? Mark Frye Berkeley Solar Electric Systems 303 Redbud Way Nevada City, CA 95959 (530) 401-8024 www.berkeleysolar.com -Original Message- From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of jay peltz Sent: Tuesday, January 17, 2012 8:43 AM To: RE-wrenches Subject: [RE-wrenches] battery buss bars Hi All, Where do I find buss bars for a battery parallel problem? I've got to fix a brand new ( not me) system, that has 4 sets of L-16's at 24v. Yea yea why didn't they go to 48? So I want to use buss bars to parallel them, and looking for premade ones. Thanks in advance, Jay Peltz power ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] 24 vs. 48
Mark, A 24-volt inverter may produce twice as much charging current as a 48-volt inverter with the same power rating, but if you are putting batteries in parallel, the individual batteries get the same charging current either way. In the case of four parallel strings of four L16 batteries, a 100-amp 24-volt charge puts about 25 amps (if you are careful with the wiring and the batteries aren't sulfated) into each string of batteries. A 50-amp 48-volt charger would accomplish the same thing. Kent Osterberg Blue Mountain Solar, Inc. www.bluemountainsolar.com t: 541-568-4882 On 1/17/2012 8:56 AM, Mark Frye wrote: Not really on topic to Jay's question, but... Is 48v always better than 24v? How important is bulk charging current to overall battery life? In some cases, isn't it better to use a 24v inverter/charger which can develop a higher charge current for a battery bank that has a higher AH rating? Mark Frye Berkeley Solar Electric Systems 303 Redbud Way Nevada City, CA 95959 (530) 401-8024 www.berkeleysolar.com -Original Message- From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of jay peltz Sent: Tuesday, January 17, 2012 8:43 AM To: RE-wrenches Subject: [RE-wrenches] battery buss bars Hi All, Where do I find buss bars for a battery parallel problem? I've got to fix a brand new ( not me) system, that has 4 sets of L-16's at 24v. Yea yea why didn't they go to 48? So I want to use buss bars to parallel them, and looking for premade ones. Thanks in advance, Jay Peltz power ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] 24 vs. 48
OK, But let's assume only one string, how important is it to develop a higher bulk charge current? Mark Frye Berkeley Solar Electric Systems 303 Redbud Way Nevada City, CA 95959 (530) 401-8024 www.berkeleysolar.com -Original Message- From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of Kent Osterberg Sent: Tuesday, January 17, 2012 9:16 AM To: RE-wrenches Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] 24 vs. 48 Mark, A 24-volt inverter may produce twice as much charging current as a 48-volt inverter with the same power rating, but if you are putting batteries in parallel, the individual batteries get the same charging current either way. In the case of four parallel strings of four L16 batteries, a 100-amp 24-volt charge puts about 25 amps (if you are careful with the wiring and the batteries aren't sulfated) into each string of batteries. A 50-amp 48-volt charger would accomplish the same thing. Kent Osterberg Blue Mountain Solar, Inc. www.bluemountainsolar.com t: 541-568-4882 ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] battery buss bars
Midnite has a new one: http://www.midnitesolar.com/productPhoto.php?product_ID=207productCatName=BusbarsproductCat_ID=17 Here's a new one I just found with Del City also: http://www.delcity.net/cartviewitem?item=80510DLsearch=buss+bar or http://www.delcity.net/cartviewitem?item=80006DLsearch=distribution+block I've used the Ilsco insulated distribution blocks available at electrical supply houses. I've also made them out of 1/4 x 2 copper, and then used some weird way to isolate it, or bolted them to the breaker. R. Walters r...@solarray.com Solar Engineer On Jan 17, 2012, at 9:43 AM, jay peltz wrote: Hi All, Where do I find buss bars for a battery parallel problem? I've got to fix a brand new ( not me) system, that has 4 sets of L-16's at 24v. Yea yea why didn't they go to 48? So I want to use buss bars to parallel them, and looking for premade ones. Thanks in advance, Jay Peltz power ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] battery buss bars
Jay, Here's a source. http://www.stormcopperstore.com/index.html Tom -Original Message- From: jay peltz Sent: Tuesday, January 17, 2012 6:43 AM To: RE-wrenches Subject: [RE-wrenches] battery buss bars Hi All, Where do I find buss bars for a battery parallel problem? I've got to fix a brand new ( not me) system, that has 4 sets of L-16's at 24v. Yea yea why didn't they go to 48? So I want to use buss bars to parallel them, and looking for premade ones. Thanks in advance, Jay Peltz power ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2012.0.1901 / Virus Database: 2109/4747 - Release Date: 01/16/12 ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] 24 vs. 48
Mark, It would seem to be a wash. As the voltage is halved the amperage is doubled in the battery bank. This would seem to require doubling the charging amperage so nothing is gained. On a system of any size the 48 volt gets the default nod here. Charge controllers handle twice the solar. Parallel battery strings are eliminated, or at least held to two. Wire sizing might be reduced on the low voltage side of things. And much easier future expansion possibilities, too. Cheers, Nathan Jones Power Source Solar Inc -- On Tue, Jan 17, 2012 10:56 AM CST Mark Frye wrote: Not really on topic to Jay's question, but... Is 48v always better than 24v? How important is bulk charging current to overall battery life? In some cases, isn't it better to use a 24v inverter/charger which can develop a higher charge current for a battery bank that has a higher AH rating? Mark Frye Berkeley Solar Electric Systems 303 Redbud Way Nevada City, CA 95959 (530) 401-8024 www.berkeleysolar.com -Original Message- From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of jay peltz Sent: Tuesday, January 17, 2012 8:43 AM To: RE-wrenches Subject: [RE-wrenches] battery buss bars Hi All, Where do I find buss bars for a battery parallel problem? I've got to fix a brand new ( not me) system, that has 4 sets of L-16's at 24v. Yea yea why didn't they go to 48? So I want to use buss bars to parallel them, and looking for premade ones. Thanks in advance, Jay Peltz power ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] battery buss bars
Ray, We have a job under contract this summer with four Sunny Islands and a Radian sharing the same battery bank. Even with the SIs protected by 125A DC breakers, that's 850A of DC capacity that we have to buss together. The Midnite bussbar in your link is rated 280A in its description. That seemed pretty wimpy, given that a single Radian uses two 175A GJ breakers with conductors paralleled, so I just called Ryan Mayfield, Midnite tech support. As he understands it, the limit is on the terminal strip, not the bussbar itself. He'll talk with Robin about this and get back to me; if I learn more I'll share it here. Even the Del City bussbar is rated just 500A. Are there any higher-capacity products available? Allan Allan Sindelar al...@positiveenergysolar.com NABCEP Certified Photovoltaic Installer NABCEP Certified Technical Sales Professional New Mexico EE98J Journeyman Electrician Positive Energy, Inc. 3201 Calle Marie Santa Fe, New Mexico 87507 505 424-1112 www.positiveenergysolar.com On 1/17/2012 10:22 AM, R Ray Walters wrote: Midnite has a new one: http://www.midnitesolar.com/productPhoto.php?product_ID=207productCatName=BusbarsproductCat_ID=17 Here's a new one I just found with Del City also: http://www.delcity.net/cartviewitem?item=80510DLsearch=buss+bar or http://www.delcity.net/cartviewitem?item=80006DLsearch=distribution+block I've used the Ilsco insulated distribution blocks available at electrical supply houses. I've also made them out of 1/4" x 2" copper, and then used some weird way to isolate it, or bolted them to the breaker. R. Walters r...@solaray.com Solar Engineer On Jan 17, 2012, at 9:43 AM, jay peltz wrote: Hi All, Where do I find buss bars for a battery parallel problem? I've got to fix a brand new ( not me) system, that has 4 sets of L-16's at 24v. Yea yea why didn't they go to 48? So I want to use buss bars to parallel them, and looking for premade ones. Thanks in advance, Jay Peltz power ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] battery buss bars
We've also used the larger Burndy insulated blocks. Busbars can be tricky when they are not insulated and the Burndy blocks have configurations of up to six (I think) conductors and in larger wire sizes. Midnite has a new one: http://www.midnitesolar.com/productPhoto.php?product_ID=207productCatName=BusbarsproductCat_ID=17 Here's a new one I just found with Del City also: http://www.delcity.net/cartviewitem?item=80510DLsearch=buss+bar or http://www.delcity.net/cartviewitem?item=80006DLsearch=distribution+block I've used the Ilsco insulated distribution blocks available at electrical supply houses. I've also made them out of 1/4 x 2 copper, and then used some weird way to isolate it, or bolted them to the breaker. R. Walters r...@solarray.com Solar Engineer On Jan 17, 2012, at 9:43 AM, jay peltz wrote: Hi All, Where do I find buss bars for a battery parallel problem? I've got to fix a brand new ( not me) system, that has 4 sets of L-16's at 24v. Yea yea why didn't they go to 48? So I want to use buss bars to parallel them, and looking for premade ones. Thanks in advance, Jay Peltz power ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] battery buss bars
I've also used the big Polaris insulated tap connectors. I used one that has 6 ports that are max. 250 MCM, I believe. I don't know the amp rating, but I would assume it would match the largest conductor. R. Walters r...@solarray.com Solar Engineer On Jan 17, 2012, at 11:17 AM, Allan Sindelar wrote: Ray, We have a job under contract this summer with four Sunny Islands and a Radian sharing the same battery bank. Even with the SIs protected by 125A DC breakers, that's 850A of DC capacity that we have to buss together. The Midnite bussbar in your link is rated 280A in its description. That seemed pretty wimpy, given that a single Radian uses two 175A GJ breakers with conductors paralleled, so I just called Ryan Mayfield, Midnite tech support. As he understands it, the limit is on the terminal strip, not the bussbar itself. He'll talk with Robin about this and get back to me; if I learn more I'll share it here. Even the Del City bussbar is rated just 500A. Are there any higher-capacity products available? Allan Allan Sindelar al...@positiveenergysolar.com NABCEP Certified Photovoltaic Installer NABCEP Certified Technical Sales Professional New Mexico EE98J Journeyman Electrician Positive Energy, Inc. 3201 Calle Marie Santa Fe, New Mexico 87507 505 424-1112 www.positiveenergysolar.com On 1/17/2012 10:22 AM, R Ray Walters wrote: Midnite has a new one: http://www.midnitesolar.com/productPhoto.php?product_ID=207productCatName=BusbarsproductCat_ID=17 Here's a new one I just found with Del City also: http://www.delcity.net/cartviewitem?item=80510DLsearch=buss+bar or http://www.delcity.net/cartviewitem?item=80006DLsearch=distribution+block I've used the Ilsco insulated distribution blocks available at electrical supply houses. I've also made them out of 1/4 x 2 copper, and then used some weird way to isolate it, or bolted them to the breaker. R. Walters r...@solaray.com Solar Engineer On Jan 17, 2012, at 9:43 AM, jay peltz wrote: Hi All, Where do I find buss bars for a battery parallel problem? I've got to fix a brand new ( not me) system, that has 4 sets of L-16's at 24v. Yea yea why didn't they go to 48? So I want to use buss bars to parallel them, and looking for premade ones. Thanks in advance, Jay Peltz power ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] battery buss bars
Here's one of the 6 port Burndy blocks for up to 600 kcmil, with spec sheet: http://www.burndy.com/site-search.aspx?cx=002899303449139187703%3Ae9jb50hrnuccof=FORID%3A10ie=UTF-8q=insulated+blocksSearchType=PartNumbergo.x=0go.y=0 I've also used the big Polaris insulated tap connectors. I used one that has 6 ports that are max. 250 MCM, I believe. I don't know the amp rating, but I would assume it would match the largest conductor. R. Walters r...@solarray.com Solar Engineer On Jan 17, 2012, at 11:17 AM, Allan Sindelar wrote: Ray, We have a job under contract this summer with four Sunny Islands and a Radian sharing the same battery bank. Even with the SIs protected by 125A DC breakers, that's 850A of DC capacity that we have to buss together. The Midnite bussbar in your link is rated 280A in its description. That seemed pretty wimpy, given that a single Radian uses two 175A GJ breakers with conductors paralleled, so I just called Ryan Mayfield, Midnite tech support. As he understands it, the limit is on the terminal strip, not the bussbar itself. He'll talk with Robin about this and get back to me; if I learn more I'll share it here. Even the Del City bussbar is rated just 500A. Are there any higher-capacity products available? Allan Allan Sindelar al...@positiveenergysolar.com NABCEP Certified Photovoltaic Installer NABCEP Certified Technical Sales Professional New Mexico EE98J Journeyman Electrician Positive Energy, Inc. 3201 Calle Marie Santa Fe, New Mexico 87507 505 424-1112 www.positiveenergysolar.com On 1/17/2012 10:22 AM, R Ray Walters wrote: Midnite has a new one: http://www.midnitesolar.com/productPhoto.php?product_ID=207productCatName=BusbarsproductCat_ID=17 Here's a new one I just found with Del City also: http://www.delcity.net/cartviewitem?item=80510DLsearch=buss+bar or http://www.delcity.net/cartviewitem?item=80006DLsearch=distribution+block I've used the Ilsco insulated distribution blocks available at electrical supply houses. I've also made them out of 1/4 x 2 copper, and then used some weird way to isolate it, or bolted them to the breaker. R. Walters r...@solaray.com Solar Engineer On Jan 17, 2012, at 9:43 AM, jay peltz wrote: Hi All, Where do I find buss bars for a battery parallel problem? I've got to fix a brand new ( not me) system, that has 4 sets of L-16's at 24v. Yea yea why didn't they go to 48? So I want to use buss bars to parallel them, and looking for premade ones. Thanks in advance, Jay Peltz power ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] 24 vs. 48
Another advantage of 24v over 48v is when you have loads that are more appropriate at 24v , like DC circulation pumps on solar heating systems, The Elsid, Laing and Hartel circ pumps don't come in 48v and the Flowlight booster pump 48volt version is too noisy if the pump will live in a utility room attached to the house. I live with a 48v system and I ended up adding a Solar converters transformer to knock all my DC loads down to 24volt, I had to add a capacitor to the transformer to handle the starting surge of the Flowlight, kinda funky and I wouldn't do that on a clients system. I usually stick with 24volt battery banks for these reasons. Carl Hansen HansenSun Elect. On 1/17/2012 11:38 AM, R Ray Walters wrote: The only advantages of 24 v are that you can create smaller KWH battery banks, and that Bergey's XL.1 was only available in 24 v. Anytime the design allows, I jump to 48 v. R. Walters r...@solarray.com Solar Engineer On Jan 17, 2012, at 11:11 AM, Nathan Jones wrote: Mark, It would seem to be a wash. As the voltage is halved the amperage is doubled in the battery bank. This would seem to require doubling the charging amperage so nothing is gained. On a system of any size the 48 volt gets the default nod here. Charge controllers handle twice the solar. Parallel battery strings are eliminated, or at least held to two. Wire sizing might be reduced on the low voltage side of things. And much easier future expansion possibilities, too. Cheers, Nathan Jones Power Source Solar Inc -- On Tue, Jan 17, 2012 10:56 AM CST Mark Frye wrote: Not really on topic to Jay's question, but... Is 48v always better than 24v? How important is bulk charging current to overall battery life? In some cases, isn't it better to use a 24v inverter/charger which can develop a higher charge current for a battery bank that has a higher AH rating? Mark Frye Berkeley Solar Electric Systems 303 Redbud Way Nevada City, CA 95959 (530) 401-8024 www.berkeleysolar.com -Original Message- From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of jay peltz Sent: Tuesday, January 17, 2012 8:43 AM To: RE-wrenches Subject: [RE-wrenches] battery buss bars Hi All, Where do I find buss bars for a battery parallel problem? I've got to fix a brand new ( not me) system, that has 4 sets of L-16's at 24v. Yea yea why didn't they go to 48? So I want to use buss bars to parallel them, and looking for premade ones. Thanks in advance, Jay Peltz power ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
[RE-wrenches] Burning up brushes
Hello Wrenches, I have a customer that has gone through 3 sets of brushes in the past month on a Kohler 14kW RES. Luckily for us, we did not supply this generator. Does anyone have any experience with a generator burning through brushes like this? If so, what was wrong? The generator guy is out for a few weeks so I'd like to help them out if I can. Thanks in advance. -- Mac Lewis * Yo solo sé que no sé nada. -Sócrates * ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] 24 vs. 48
Mark, The first step has to be to choose a battery system that stores the right amount of energy for the job to be done. If it is a 24-volt battery system, it'll have twice as many amp hours as a 48-volt system. The fact that the 24-volt inverter has twice the charger rating means the charge rate (C/X) that the batteries see is the same either way. Considering that lots of parallel strings of batteries is trouble waiting to happen and that a 48-volt system is more efficient, except for the smallest systems 48-volts is usually the way to go. Kent Osterberg Blue Mountain Solar, Inc. www.bluemountainsolar.com t: 541-568-4882 On 1/17/2012 9:20 AM, Mark Frye wrote: OK, But let's assume only one string, how important is it to develop a higher bulk charge current? Mark Frye Berkeley Solar Electric Systems 303 Redbud Way Nevada City, CA 95959 (530) 401-8024 www.berkeleysolar.com -Original Message- From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of Kent Osterberg Sent: Tuesday, January 17, 2012 9:16 AM To: RE-wrenches Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] 24 vs. 48 Mark, A 24-volt inverter may produce twice as much charging current as a 48-volt inverter with the same power rating, but if you are putting batteries in parallel, the individual batteries get the same charging current either way. In the case of four parallel strings of four L16 batteries, a 100-amp 24-volt charge puts about 25 amps (if you are careful with the wiring and the batteries aren't sulfated) into each string of batteries. A 50-amp 48-volt charger would accomplish the same thing. Kent Osterberg Blue Mountain Solar, Inc. www.bluemountainsolar.com t: 541-568-4882 ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] 24 vs. 48
Mark, The first step has to be to choose a battery system that stores the right amount of energy for the job to be done. If it is a 24-volt battery system, it'll have twice as many amp hours as a 48-volt system. The fact that the 24-volt inverter has twice the charger rating means the charge rate (C/X) that the batteries see is the same either way. Considering that lots of parallel strings of batteries is trouble waiting to happen and that a 48-volt system is more efficient, except for the smallest systems 48-volts is usually the way to go. Kent Osterberg Blue Mountain Solar, Inc. www.bluemountainsolar.com t: 541-568-4882 On 1/17/2012 9:20 AM, Mark Frye wrote: OK, But let's assume only one string, how important is it to develop a higher bulk charge current? Mark Frye Berkeley Solar Electric Systems 303 Redbud Way Nevada City, CA 95959 (530) 401-8024 www.berkeleysolar.com -Original Message- From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of Kent Osterberg Sent: Tuesday, January 17, 2012 9:16 AM To: RE-wrenches Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] 24 vs. 48 Mark, A 24-volt inverter may produce twice as much charging current as a 48-volt inverter with the same power rating, but if you are putting batteries in parallel, the individual batteries get the same charging current either way. In the case of four parallel strings of four L16 batteries, a 100-amp 24-volt charge puts about 25 amps (if you are careful with the wiring and the batteries aren't sulfated) into each string of batteries. A 50-amp 48-volt charger would accomplish the same thing. Kent Osterberg Blue Mountain Solar, Inc. www.bluemountainsolar.com t: 541-568-4882 ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] 24 vs. 48
The most common reason to go with a higher voltage (and thus lower current for a given overall wattage) is to allow the use of smaller conductors, which are generally easier to work with, and lower cost. There are fractional performance advantages to 48V over 24V in *some* equipment, but the advantages typically require lab-grade equipment to measure. Equipment such as charge controllers and MPPT often benefit from operating at a higher voltage due to reduced energy loss in the copper. The above aside, Nathan appears to have mis-typed when he said: Wire sizing might be reduced on the low voltage side of hings. Wire sizes *increase* for a lower-voltage system at a given wattage and the same conductor losses as in a higher-voltage configuration. A 24V system will have double the current than a 48V system at the same wattage. Larger conductors are needed if the loss is to be the same in the 24V as in the 48V configuration. Dan Sr. Engineer Exeltech Dan --- On Tue, 1/17/12, Nathan Jones solardud...@yahoo.com wrote: From: Nathan Jones solardud...@yahoo.com Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] 24 vs. 48 To: re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Date: Tuesday, January 17, 2012, 12:11 PM Mark, It would seem to be a wash. As the voltage is halved the amperage is doubled in the battery bank. This would seem to require doubling the charging amperage so nothing is gained. On a system of any size the 48 volt gets the default nod here. Charge controllers handle twice the solar. Parallel battery strings are eliminated, or at least held to two. Wire sizing might be reduced on the low voltage side of things. And much easier future expansion possibilities, too. Cheers, Nathan Jones Power Source Solar Inc -- On Tue, Jan 17, 2012 10:56 AM CST Mark Frye wrote: Not really on topic to Jay's question, but... Is 48v always better than 24v? How important is bulk charging current to overall battery life? In some cases, isn't it better to use a 24v inverter/charger which can develop a higher charge current for a battery bank that has a higher AH rating? Mark Frye Berkeley Solar Electric Systems 303 Redbud Way Nevada City, CA 95959 (530) 401-8024 www.berkeleysolar.com ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] 24 vs. 48
Mark, If you are working with industrial batteries where you have lots of options for battery capacity, what you are saying makes sense. But not if you are assembling commercial (L16 or T-105 types) batteries to get more capacity. The reduced effort for measuring specific gravity watering for a 24-volt system with 12 cells, I'll concede to. But there is less to gain when it comes to watering, the 12 cells should end up taking as much water and almost as much time to put it in the cells. In addition to being more efficient, the 48-volt inverter can operate with one or two 2-volt cells removed. Kent Osterberg Blue Mountain Solar, Inc. www.bluemountainsolar.com t: 541-568-4882 On 1/17/2012 11:19 AM, Mark Frye wrote: Interesting. I can choose an OB VFX3524 w/ 85 ADC or an OB VFX3648 w/ 45 ADC of charging capacity. And assuming that I need C/10 during bulk charging (and the importance of this is really what I am asking about) then: VFX3524: 85 ADC * 10 = 850 AH * 24 VDC = 20.4 kWH battery bank VFX3648: 45 ADC * 10 = 450 AH * 48 VDC = 21.6 kWH battery bank OK, so it's about a wash either way in terms of stored energy. But assuming for the moment that distances are short and the initial difference in copper costs are small, wouldn't you rather have half the number of individual cells to maintain...less watering, less SG measuring, lower overall part (individual 2V cells) count? Mark Frye Berkeley Solar Electric Systems 303 Redbud Way Nevada City, CA 95959 (530) 401-8024 www.berkeleysolar.com -Original Message- From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of R Ray Walters Sent: Tuesday, January 17, 2012 10:38 AM To: RE-wrenches Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] 24 vs. 48 The only advantages of 24 v are that you can create smaller KWH battery banks, and that Bergey's XL.1 was only available in 24 v. Anytime the design allows, I jump to 48 v. R. Walters r...@solarray.com Solar Engineer On Jan 17, 2012, at 11:11 AM, Nathan Jones wrote: Mark, It would seem to be a wash. As the voltage is halved the amperage is doubled in the battery bank. This would seem to require doubling the charging amperage so nothing is gained. On a system of any size the 48 volt gets the default nod here. Charge controllers handle twice the solar. Parallel battery strings are eliminated, or at least held to two. Wire sizing might be reduced on the low voltage side of things. And much easier future expansion possibilities, too. Cheers, Nathan Jones Power Source Solar Inc -- On Tue, Jan 17, 2012 10:56 AM CST Mark Frye wrote: Not really on topic to Jay's question, but... Is 48v always better than 24v? How important is bulk charging current to overall battery life? In some cases, isn't it better to use a 24v inverter/charger which can develop a higher charge current for a battery bank that has a higher AH rating? Mark Frye Berkeley Solar Electric Systems 303 Redbud Way Nevada City, CA 95959 (530) 401-8024 www.berkeleysolar.com -Original Message- From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of jay peltz Sent: Tuesday, January 17, 2012 8:43 AM To: RE-wrenches Subject: [RE-wrenches] battery buss bars Hi All, Where do I find buss bars for a battery parallel problem? I've got to fix a brand new ( not me) system, that has 4 sets of L-16's at 24v. Yea yea why didn't they go to 48? So I want to use buss bars to parallel them, and looking for premade ones. Thanks in advance, Jay Peltz power ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address:
Re: [RE-wrenches] Burning up brushes
Probably a bad commutator on the rotor, it may not have been polished properly. I would call Kohler and discuss warranty, it should be replaced by a Kohler warranty technician free of charge. On Tue, Jan 17, 2012 at 4:50 PM, mac Lewis maclew...@gmail.com wrote: Hello Wrenches, I have a customer that has gone through 3 sets of brushes in the past month on a Kohler 14kW RES. Luckily for us, we did not supply this generator. Does anyone have any experience with a generator burning through brushes like this? If so, what was wrong? The generator guy is out for a few weeks so I'd like to help them out if I can. Thanks in advance. -- Mac Lewis * Yo solo sé que no sé nada. -Sócrates * ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org -- Chris Mason President, Comet Systems Ltd mas...@cometsystems.co www.cometsystems.co Cell: 264.235.5670 Int: +1305.767.2094 Skype: netconcepts ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] battery buss bars
Am I safe to assume you are looking for buss bars to connect the batteries? I get the copper stock and custom drill them to match the install. If you are connecting the batteries together use good heat shrink (glue filled) between the connections. Bob Ellison -Original Message- From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of R Ray Walters Sent: Tuesday, January 17, 2012 12:23 PM To: RE-wrenches Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] battery buss bars Midnite has a new one: http://www.midnitesolar.com/productPhoto.php?product_ID=207productCatName=B usbarsproductCat_ID=17 Here's a new one I just found with Del City also: http://www.delcity.net/cartviewitem?item=80510DLsearch=buss+bar or http://www.delcity.net/cartviewitem?item=80006DLsearch=distribution+block I've used the Ilsco insulated distribution blocks available at electrical supply houses. I've also made them out of 1/4 x 2 copper, and then used some weird way to isolate it, or bolted them to the breaker. R. Walters r...@solarray.com Solar Engineer On Jan 17, 2012, at 9:43 AM, jay peltz wrote: Hi All, Where do I find buss bars for a battery parallel problem? I've got to fix a brand new ( not me) system, that has 4 sets of L-16's at 24v. Yea yea why didn't they go to 48? So I want to use buss bars to parallel them, and looking for premade ones. Thanks in advance, Jay Peltz power ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] 24 vs. 48
It only looks like a higher current, the actual power into the bank is the same. 100 amps @ 12 volt is the same as 50 amps @ 24 volts and 25 amps @ 48 volts. Bob Ellison -Original Message- From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of Mark Frye Sent: Tuesday, January 17, 2012 12:20 PM To: 'RE-wrenches' Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] 24 vs. 48 OK, But let's assume only one string, how important is it to develop a higher bulk charge current? Mark Frye Berkeley Solar Electric Systems 303 Redbud Way Nevada City, CA 95959 (530) 401-8024 www.berkeleysolar.com -Original Message- From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of Kent Osterberg Sent: Tuesday, January 17, 2012 9:16 AM To: RE-wrenches Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] 24 vs. 48 Mark, A 24-volt inverter may produce twice as much charging current as a 48-volt inverter with the same power rating, but if you are putting batteries in parallel, the individual batteries get the same charging current either way. In the case of four parallel strings of four L16 batteries, a 100-amp 24-volt charge puts about 25 amps (if you are careful with the wiring and the batteries aren't sulfated) into each string of batteries. A 50-amp 48-volt charger would accomplish the same thing. Kent Osterberg Blue Mountain Solar, Inc. www.bluemountainsolar.com t: 541-568-4882 ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] 24 vs. 48
The XL-1 problem is cured with the Classic. Bob -Original Message- From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of R Ray Walters Sent: Tuesday, January 17, 2012 1:38 PM To: RE-wrenches Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] 24 vs. 48 The only advantages of 24 v are that you can create smaller KWH battery banks, and that Bergey's XL.1 was only available in 24 v. Anytime the design allows, I jump to 48 v. R. Walters r...@solarray.com Solar Engineer On Jan 17, 2012, at 11:11 AM, Nathan Jones wrote: Mark, It would seem to be a wash. As the voltage is halved the amperage is doubled in the battery bank. This would seem to require doubling the charging amperage so nothing is gained. On a system of any size the 48 volt gets the default nod here. Charge controllers handle twice the solar. Parallel battery strings are eliminated, or at least held to two. Wire sizing might be reduced on the low voltage side of things. And much easier future expansion possibilities, too. Cheers, Nathan Jones Power Source Solar Inc -- On Tue, Jan 17, 2012 10:56 AM CST Mark Frye wrote: Not really on topic to Jay's question, but... Is 48v always better than 24v? How important is bulk charging current to overall battery life? In some cases, isn't it better to use a 24v inverter/charger which can develop a higher charge current for a battery bank that has a higher AH rating? Mark Frye Berkeley Solar Electric Systems 303 Redbud Way Nevada City, CA 95959 (530) 401-8024 www.berkeleysolar.com -Original Message- From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of jay peltz Sent: Tuesday, January 17, 2012 8:43 AM To: RE-wrenches Subject: [RE-wrenches] battery buss bars Hi All, Where do I find buss bars for a battery parallel problem? I've got to fix a brand new ( not me) system, that has 4 sets of L-16's at 24v. Yea yea why didn't they go to 48? So I want to use buss bars to parallel them, and looking for premade ones. Thanks in advance, Jay Peltz power ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] 24 vs. 48
Dan, The typo I didn't catch on the quick proofread. I was actually referring to the wire sizing on the low voltage side of the charge controller and assuming higher module voltage than battery nominal. In light of that, the 48 volt system might allow reduced sizing of conducters over the 24. I started my off grid life with 5 strings of T105s at 48 volts. I managed to keep that ship floating for 9 years but the bailing the last few years got pretty frantic. Life nowdays is a 48 volt string of 2 volt HUPs and the care and watering is delightful by comparison. There have been some good points on this thread for 24 volt banks but IMHO 48 is the way to go the vast majority of the time. Thanks for referencing the typo. Nathan -- On Tue, Jan 17, 2012 3:54 PM CST Exeltech wrote: The most common reason to go with a higher voltage (and thus lower current for a given overall wattage) is to allow the use of smaller conductors, which are generally easier to work with, and lower cost. There are fractional performance advantages to 48V over 24V in *some* equipment, but the advantages typically require lab-grade equipment to measure. Equipment such as charge controllers and MPPT often benefit from operating at a higher voltage due to reduced energy loss in the copper. The above aside, Nathan appears to have mis-typed when he said: Wire sizing might be reduced on the low voltage side of hings. Wire sizes *increase* for a lower-voltage system at a given wattage and the same conductor losses as in a higher-voltage configuration. A 24V system will have double the current than a 48V system at the same wattage. Larger conductors are needed if the loss is to be the same in the 24V as in the 48V configuration. Dan Sr. Engineer Exeltech Dan --- On Tue, 1/17/12, Nathan Jones solardud...@yahoo.com wrote: From: Nathan Jones solardud...@yahoo.com Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] 24 vs. 48 To: re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Date: Tuesday, January 17, 2012, 12:11 PM Mark, It would seem to be a wash. As the voltage is halved the amperage is doubled in the battery bank. This would seem to require doubling the charging amperage so nothing is gained. On a system of any size the 48 volt gets the default nod here. Charge controllers handle twice the solar. Parallel battery strings are eliminated, or at least held to two. Wire sizing might be reduced on the low voltage side of things. And much easier future expansion possibilities, too. Cheers, Nathan Jones Power Source Solar Inc -- On Tue, Jan 17, 2012 10:56 AM CST Mark Frye wrote: Not really on topic to Jay's question, but... Is 48v always better than 24v? How important is bulk charging current to overall battery life? In some cases, isn't it better to use a 24v inverter/charger which can develop a higher charge current for a battery bank that has a higher AH rating? Mark Frye Berkeley Solar Electric Systems 303 Redbud Way Nevada City, CA 95959 (530) 401-8024 www.berkeleysolar.com ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Burning up brushes
Is the wear all on 1 brush or are both wearing the same? Are the slip rings smooth as glass? Later, Bob Ellison From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of mac Lewis Sent: Tuesday, January 17, 2012 3:51 PM To: RE-wrenches Subject: [RE-wrenches] Burning up brushes Hello Wrenches, I have a customer that has gone through 3 sets of brushes in the past month on a Kohler 14kW RES. Luckily for us, we did not supply this generator. Does anyone have any experience with a generator burning through brushes like this? If so, what was wrong? The generator guy is out for a few weeks so I'd like to help them out if I can. Thanks in advance. -- Mac Lewis Yo solo sé que no sé nada. -Sócrates ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Shedding ice
boB,If this concept were to become a working option for the Classic, would the modules have to be modified in any way? Why are the diodes not blocking the reverse current?benn DayStar Renewable Energy Inc. benn@daystarsolar.ca780-906-7807 HAVE A SUNNY DAY Date: Mon, 16 Jan 2012 13:14:36 -0800 From: b...@midnitesolar.com To: re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Shedding ice On 1/16/2012 11:39 AM, David Katz wrote: Mark, I believe the Midnite Classic has this feature built in. Check with them. David Katz It just snowed up here in Arlington, Washington A.C. and we were just starting to melt some snow on a couple of modules on our roof just now with one of our charge controllers here in the lab. This feature is not yet in the Classic, BUT, check out this experiment that I did about 3 years ago in my front yard with an animated gif time lapse. One module is being powered and the other is not powered, just sitting there for comparison. These are KC125s. The time involved here was about 3 hours and took about 1 kW-hour of energy but gives you an idea of what may be done with this idea. One thing not in our favor here is that the module that is being powered is resting on the ground, in the snow, which would significantly hinder snow melting I would think rather than being properly mounted. Oh what fun it is to melt some PV snow tonight ! http://fusion.midnitesolar.com/PVsnowMelt3.gif boB From: Mark Dickson [mailto:m...@oasismontana.com] Sent: Monday, January 16, 2012 10:00 AM To: 'RE-wrenches' re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Subject: [RE-wrenches] Shedding ice I recall a conversation a while back about the possibility of “reversing” the current in a solar module to increase the cell temp enough to shed ice/rime. To follow-up, has anybody been successful at this? I am guessing, if so, it would entail, removal of diodes, increasing PV and battery capacity and some way to sense the ice at the very least. . . It sounds good in theory, but I am skeptical as to whether it will work in reality. . . Best regards, Mark Dickson, NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installer ™ Oasis Montana Inc. ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Shedding ice
On 1/17/2012 6:32 PM, Bill Hoffer wrote: Bob Wonder how Module manufacturer warranties will handle applying reverse current to the module , especially if it is more than the power rating of the module??? I would want that one in writing before risking having to write off an array in order to melt a little snow! Bill Hey Bill !! Don't worry, I wouldn't dream of doing something that is outside the module's specifications. Most PV module manufacturers don't quite understand how this works either but one particular manufacturer liked the idea when I brought it up to them a couple years ago at SPI. This mode of operation is also done in part of the UL testing. There are certain rules that have to be followed for this and luckily, most properly installed systems are already protected. It's actually much easier on the modules than you might think. boB On Tue, Jan 17, 2012 at 4:37 PM, b...@midnitesolar.com mailto:b...@midnitesolar.com b...@midnitesolar.com mailto:b...@midnitesolar.com wrote: On 1/17/2012 4:18 PM, benn kilburn wrote: boB, If this concept were to become a working option for the Classic, would the modules have to be modified in any way? Why are the diodes not blocking the reverse current? benn DayStar Renewable Energy Inc. b...@daystarsolar.ca mailto:b...@daystarsolar.ca 780-906-7807 tel:780-906-7807 HAVE A SUNNY DAY No mods. However, as you can see, if the controller is maxed out as far as array size, that could limit the snow melting effect. I don't have any hard data as for the minimum power needed to apply to the array for snow melting, but it could be around twice the power to melt snow as the power rating of the array. Yesterday's experiment was less than 2wice the power rating and it may have been fine with with even less, so that's a very good sign. How much power does it take to melt snow off of a car's rear window from the electric defroster ? It's a similar kind thing. Diodes ?? You mean the bypass diodes ?? No problem. Those don't conduct in this case. boB Date: Mon, 16 Jan 2012 13:14:36 -0800 From: b...@midnitesolar.com mailto:b...@midnitesolar.com To: re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Shedding ice On 1/16/2012 11:39 AM, David Katz wrote: Mark, I believe the Midnite Classic has this feature built in. Check with them. David Katz It just snowed up here in Arlington, Washington A.C. and we were just starting to melt some snow on a couple of modules on our roof just now with one of our charge controllers here in the lab. This feature is not yet in the Classic, BUT, check out this experiment that I did about 3 years ago in my front yard with an animated gif time lapse. One module is being powered and the other is not powered, just sitting there for comparison. These are KC125s. The time involved here was about 3 hours and took about 1 kW-hour of energy but gives you an idea of what may be done with this idea. One thing not in our favor here is that the module that is being powered is resting on the ground, in the snow, which would significantly hinder snow melting I would think rather than being properly mounted. Oh what fun it is to melt some PV snow tonight ! http://fusion.midnitesolar.com/PVsnowMelt3.gif boB *From*: Mark Dickson [mailto:m...@oasismontana.com] *Sent*: Monday, January 16, 2012 10:00 AM *To*: 'RE-wrenches' re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org *Subject*: [RE-wrenches] Shedding ice I recall a conversation a while back about the possibility of reversing the current in a solar module to increase the cell temp enough to shed ice/rime. To follow-up, has anybody been successful at this? I am guessing, if so, it would entail, removal of diodes, increasing PV and battery capacity and some way to sense the ice at the very least. . . It sounds good in theory, but I am skeptical as to whether it will work in reality. . . Best regards, Mark Dickson, NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installer ^(TM) Oasis Montana Inc. ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org mailto:RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm
