[RE-wrenches] Solar tariffs

[William Korthof]

I haven't seen much discussion about the tariffs, but I think the current
plan is really an outrage. I've toured the SolarWorld factory twice and
used many of their modules---I'd like to see US Solar manufacturers
succeed, but I've also toured Chinese factories, and I'm thoroughly
impressed by how well Chinese solar companies have invested and innovated.
I don't think tariffs are the salvation for SolarWorld, and thanks to their
misguided lobbying activities, they've now lost me as a potential customer.
Sorry.
I'm writing letters to the Pres, my senators, and my reps. Here's what I
just wrote to the NY Times:

"Announced tariffs against Chinese Solar panels are bad public policy that
only hurt the industry they intend to serve. Chinese solar companies now
mass produce the best solar modules in the world, with falling prices and
improving technology. Commendably, they've been passing along those
savings, which makes solar affordable for more people, benefiting everyone.
Having failed to scale their own production and cut manufacturing costs,
there are only a few US-based solar manufactures, with a tiny share of
total US solar industry jobs. That's unfortunate, but tariffs won't build
sustainable business for companies that fail to innovate. The main part of
the solar industry has always been integration; and that's why protective
tariffs do more harm than good. They create uncertainty where it matters
most: to users and installers of solar power. Until this ill-fated policy
is dropped, the mere threat of tariffs slows all investments in solar, and
that hurts everyone."
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Number of Controllers

[Exeltech]

I second Larry's recommendation of Blue Sky charge controllers.

I've used them for several years under some very adverse conditions,
yet they've performed flawlessly.  Support too has been excellent.


Dan
Sr. Engineer
Exeltech


--- On Wed, 5/23/12, Larry Crutcher, Starlight Solar Power Systems 
 wrote:

From: Larry Crutcher, Starlight Solar Power Systems 
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Number of Controllers
To: "RE-wrenches" 
Date: Wednesday, May 23, 2012, 11:54 PM

Colin,
The IPN Network charge controllers from Blue Sky Energy can be configured as 
Master & Slave so ALL controllers work together. With up to 8 controllers on 
the network, you can have multiple arrays and orintations. Their new Duo model 
will function as hydro or wind diversion control. AND, each controller has a 
fully programmable lighting control! Sounds like this is the controller to meet 
all your requests. We have sold hundreds and I highly recommend them.


Larry CrutcherStarlight Solar Power Systems(928) 342-9103www.starlightsolar.com
Retail Store& Warehouse2998 Shari Ave.Yuma, Az 85365
USPS Postal Mail Only11881 S Fortuna Road, #210Yuma, AZ 85367






On May 23, 2012, at 6:47 PM, Colin Vogt wrote:
Wrenches,
What considerations are there for the number of charge controllers that can be 
in a stand-alone system with a single battery bank?  If one uses MPPT 
controllers, then  one would want (I think) a different controller for 
different module orientations.  That is, if one had a couple modules at one 
azimuth/tilt angle you would have a controller for that, and another controller 
for a module at a different azimuth/tilt angle.  Also, I can see having a 
controller to turn on yard lights (Morningstar makes one, although it is not an 
MPPT type and is of limited capacity).  Could also one have a controller for 
diversion loads?  And also a controller for a wind generator?  So I can see 
where a stand-alone system might have 4 or maybe even more controllers, all 
tied into the same battery bank.  Are there any considerations for a system 
like this?  For instance, do the setpoints for all controllers need to match?
Colin Vogt

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Re: [RE-wrenches] Voltage Datalogger

[Jason Szumlanski]

This customer wants a standalone solution without a computer (direct LAN
connection). There is no inverter - that was my first thought when he
called... The pentametric sounds like a possible solution - I'll look into
that. Thanks for the info!

Jason Szumlanski
Fafco Solar




On Wed, May 23, 2012 at 3:35 PM, Dan Fink  wrote:

> Hi Jason;
>
> This is a big interest of mine also, due to many extremely remote sites
> with PV installations. Though am more int he market for a deployable
> voltage monitor where the client can send me data upon their arrival at
> camp each spring, so i can see what the systems were doing all winter with
> nobody around but bears, wolves and wolverines.
>
> There are numerous ways to go about this; here would be my considerations:
>
> ~ Is there an integrated system monitor in place already? As in Outback
> FlexnetDC, and the Xantrex and Magnum equivilants? If so, much of your work
> has been done for you. should be quite easy.
> ~ Is there an external monitor like a trimetric or pentametric? The
> trimetric would require a computer on all the time (but that could be a
> tiny linux thing with no display, just and SD card etc). The pentametric
> can be ordered with an LAN interface so that only the internet and LAN/wifi
> need be turned on, not a computer;
> ~ You can talk to Jim Jarvis at APRS World. They have tons of
> logging/monitoring options they can build for you with integrated
> LAN/internet monitoring etc.
>
> For this year, i am going with some USB pen drive voltage monitors i can
> deploy on the last day of human occupation at these camps (november 1) and
> retrieve data when people arrive June 1. The problem is zero sunlight for 2
> months of winter (high latitude, in a valley in the Skeena Mountain Range)
> However I think my future may be with Arduino. Not very hard to tell the
> arduino computer:
>
>
>
> --
> Dan Fink,
> Executive Director;
> Otherpower
> Buckville Energy Consulting
> Buckville Publications LLC
> NABCEP / IREC accredited Continuing Education Providers
> 970.672.4342 (voicemail)
>
>
> On Wed, May 23, 2012 at 1:06 PM, Jason Szumlanski wrote:
>
>> I have a customer interested in monitoring a 48V battery bank's voltage
>> via the Internet. This is a DC only system. He just needs basic real-time
>> and historical voltage recording without any bells and whistles. Any cost
>> effective ideas?
>>
>> Jason Szumlanski
>> Fafco Solar
>>
>
>
>
>
>
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Number of Controllers

[mac Lewis]

William and other wrenches,

I have heard there may be an open-source solar (perhaps RE in general) data
transfer protocol coming, that will allow for different manufacturers
equipment to talk.  This could allow for many possibilities, including
expanding AC coupling opportunities, and transfer of data and settings.  I
don't really know any more details than "maybe, perhaps, possibly", but I
find the idea intriguing.  Anyone else "heard" anything?

Mac

On Wed, May 23, 2012 at 11:46 PM, William Miller wrote:

>  Larry:
>
> Thank  you for the update on this intriguing product.  It would be helpful
> if the charger network could talk to a Mate or an SCP, but I doubt that
> will ever happen.
>
> Here's an idea:  A standard CAT5 protocol for exchanging data/settings in
> RE equipment.  Utopia or Chaos?
>
> William
>
>
> At 10:42 PM 5/23/2012, Larry Crutcher, wrote:
>
> Colin,
>
> The IPN Network charge controllers from Blue Sky Energy can be configured
> as Master & Slave so ALL controllers work together. With up to 8
> controllers on the network, you can have multiple arrays and orintations.
> Their new Duo model will function as hydro or wind diversion control. AND,
> each controller has a fully programmable lighting control! Sounds like this
> is the controller to meet all your requests. We have sold hundreds and I
> highly recommend them.
>
> Larry Crutcher
> Starlight Solar Power Systems
> (928) 342-9103
> *www.starlightsolar.com
>
> Retail Store& Warehouse
> *2998 Shari Ave.
> Yuma, Az 85365
>
> *USPS Postal Mail Only
> *11881 S Fortuna Road, #210
> Yuma, AZ 85367
>
>
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>
>


-- 



Mac Lewis

*

"Yo solo sé que no sé nada." -Sócrates
*
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Finding ground faults

[James Jarvis]

Yes. Look for 4-20mA loop clamp on meters. Fluke 77x series is an example:

http://www.fluke.com/Fluke/usen/Clamp-Meters/Fluke-771-Milliamp-Process-Clamp-Meter.htm?PID=69415

0 to 100mA with 1% accuracy worst case over the whole range.

-James Jarvis
APRS World, LLC

On 05/24/2012 12:49 AM, William Miller wrote:

Mike:

Is there such a tool as a DC clamp-on that can reliably measure 10 mA?
My experience is any clamp meter is unreliable below 5A.

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Re: [RE-wrenches] Number of Controllers

[Larry Crutcher, Starlight Solar Power Systems]

I'm with you on that, William, a communications protocol  for all RE 
productsoh, sorry, I was dreaming.

Perhaps the new UCM bridge module will help. Here's a quote about it from this 
page http://www.blueskyenergyinc.com/products/details/ucm/

"A standard Modbus RTU interface is provided both as isolated RS-485 and TCP\IP 
Ethernet based Modbus/IP. Additional Ethernet connectivity includes a built in 
HTTP web site server allowing data view and parameter setup with a standard web 
browser either locally, or globally over the Internet without a subscription. 
The ability for periodic real time FTP data upload to a remote server is also 
provided."

Larry Crutcher
Starlight Solar Power Systems


On May 23, 2012, at 10:46 PM, William Miller wrote:

Larry:

Thank  you for the update on this intriguing product.  It would be helpful if 
the charger network could talk to a Mate or an SCP, but I doubt that will ever 
happen.  

Here's an idea:  A standard CAT5 protocol for exchanging data/settings in RE 
equipment.  Utopia or Chaos?

William

At 10:42 PM 5/23/2012, Larry Crutcher, wrote:
> Colin,
> 
> The IPN Network charge controllers from Blue Sky Energy can be configured as 
> Master & Slave so ALL controllers work together. With up to 8 controllers on 
> the network, you can have multiple arrays and orintations. Their new Duo 
> model will function as hydro or wind diversion control. AND, each controller 
> has a fully programmable lighting control! Sounds like this is the controller 
> to meet all your requests. We have sold hundreds and I highly recommend them.
> 
> Larry Crutcher
> Starlight Solar Power Systems
> (928) 342-9103
> www.starlightsolar.com

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Re: [RE-wrenches] Solar tariffs

[jay peltz]

Hi William,

Here is something else for you to stew about.

The premise is that only China subsidizes its solar and we don't.
In fact we do by our tax breaks for systems.  So we don't at the point of 
manufacture, but we do for installs.
In my view this is a direct subsidy, we just do it a different way.
My 2 cents.

Cheers,

Jay

peltz power
On May 24, 2012, at 1:31 AM, William Korthof wrote:

> I haven't seen much discussion about the tariffs, but I think the current 
> plan is really an outrage. I've toured the SolarWorld factory twice and used 
> many of their modules---I'd like to see US Solar manufacturers succeed, but 
> I've also toured Chinese factories, and I'm thoroughly impressed by how well 
> Chinese solar companies have invested and innovated. I don't think tariffs 
> are the salvation for SolarWorld, and thanks to their misguided lobbying 
> activities, they've now lost me as a potential customer. Sorry. 
> I'm writing letters to the Pres, my senators, and my reps. Here's what I just 
> wrote to the NY Times:  
> 
> "Announced tariffs against Chinese Solar panels are bad public policy that 
> only hurt the industry they intend to serve. Chinese solar companies now mass 
> produce the best solar modules in the world, with falling prices and 
> improving technology. Commendably, they've been passing along those savings, 
> which makes solar affordable for more people, benefiting everyone. Having 
> failed to scale their own production and cut manufacturing costs, there are 
> only a few US-based solar manufactures, with a tiny share of total US solar 
> industry jobs. That's unfortunate, but tariffs won't build sustainable 
> business for companies that fail to innovate. The main part of the solar 
> industry has always been integration; and that's why protective tariffs do 
> more harm than good. They create uncertainty where it matters most: to users 
> and installers of solar power. Until this ill-fated policy is dropped, the 
> mere threat of tariffs slows all investments in solar, and that hurts 
> everyone." 
> 
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Solar tariffs

[Michael Welch]

Hi gang. There has been a discussion on the RE-Markets list, which is the right 
place for this. 

There you will find some folks knowledgeable on policy in addition to hands-on 
wrenches.

Thanks.

>I haven't seen much discussion about the tariffs, but I think the current plan 
>is really an outrage. I've toured the SolarWorld factory twice and used many 
>of their modules---I'd like to see US Solar manufacturers succeed, but I've 
>also toured Chinese factories, and I'm thoroughly impressed by how well 
>Chinese solar companies have invested and innovated. I don't think tariffs are 
>the salvation for SolarWorld, and thanks to their misguided lobbying 
>activities, they've now lost me as a potential customer. Sorry. 

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[RE-wrenches] Other lists that Wrenches may qualify for

[Michael Welch]

Hi gang. Here are some other RE listservers that you may qualify for and
find useful. If you have any questions, suggestions, comments, or
concerns, please contact me off list.
1. RE-Markets
This is for marketing, PR discussions, incentives topics, and other
business discussions that do not belong on the RE-Wrenches list. This is
a list with archives that are private to list members.
All Wrench list members qualify for this list, including manufacturers
and distributors. The RE-Markets list is managed by Bill Roush, and I
manage the other lists mentioned below.
Sign up here:

http://lists.re-wrenches.org/listinfo.cgi/re-markets-re-wrenches.org

- - - - - - -
2. RE-Bitching
List for complaining about anything RE (RE-Bitching), RE jokes, etc.
It has member-only, private archives.
Pro wrenches only qualify for this list.
Sign up here:

http://lists.re-wrenches.org/listinfo.cgi/re-bitching-re-wrenches.org

- - - - - - -
3. PV-Trades
This list was started for discussions about a solar installers trade
association. Private archives
Only pro wrenches qualify for this list.
Sign up here:

http://lists.re-wrenches.org/listinfo.cgi/pvtrades-re-wrenches.org
- - - - - - -
4. Home-Wind-Tech
This list is strictly for discussing technical and
installation-business subjects for the home wind industry. Private
archives.
The following will qualify for membership:
wind installers (this list is primarily intended to help them)
wind manufacturer reps that are small-wind techies
academics that are small-wind techies
any NABCEP wind-certified individuals
If you would like to participate in this wind list, just respond to me
off list with the following info:
Name:
Email Address you wish to use for the wind list:
Company:
Your profession relative to small-wind:
Your technical level in the industry: 



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Re: [RE-wrenches] Number of Controllers

[Glenn Burt]

Maybe this organization will make some headway on the interoperability
question.

http://www.sunspec.org/

-Glenn Burt

-Original Message-
From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org
[mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of Larry
Crutcher, Starlight Solar Power Systems
Sent: Thursday, May 24, 2012 9:35 AM
To: RE-wrenches
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Number of Controllers

I'm with you on that, William, a communications protocol  for all RE
productsoh, sorry, I was dreaming.

Perhaps the new UCM bridge module will help. Here's a quote about it from
this page http://www.blueskyenergyinc.com/products/details/ucm/

"A standard Modbus RTU interface is provided both as isolated RS-485 and
TCP\IP Ethernet based Modbus/IP. Additional Ethernet connectivity includes a
built in HTTP web site server allowing data view and parameter setup with a
standard web browser either locally, or globally over the Internet without a
subscription. The ability for periodic real time FTP data upload to a remote
server is also provided."

Larry Crutcher
Starlight Solar Power Systems


On May 23, 2012, at 10:46 PM, William Miller wrote:

Larry:

Thank  you for the update on this intriguing product.  It would be helpful
if the charger network could talk to a Mate or an SCP, but I doubt that will
ever happen.  

Here's an idea:  A standard CAT5 protocol for exchanging data/settings in RE
equipment.  Utopia or Chaos?

William

At 10:42 PM 5/23/2012, Larry Crutcher, wrote:
> Colin,
> 
> The IPN Network charge controllers from Blue Sky Energy can be configured
as Master & Slave so ALL controllers work together. With up to 8 controllers
on the network, you can have multiple arrays and orintations. Their new Duo
model will function as hydro or wind diversion control. AND, each controller
has a fully programmable lighting control! Sounds like this is the
controller to meet all your requests. We have sold hundreds and I highly
recommend them.
> 
> Larry Crutcher
> Starlight Solar Power Systems
> (928) 342-9103
> www.starlightsolar.com

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[RE-wrenches] NABCEP

[Dana]

NABCEP has been a strangely quiet subject on this forum. FYI - I checked
with our honorable moderator prior to posting this.

 

If we are attempting to expand the field of "certified" installer and
designers why is NABCEP run the way it is?

 

Getting the NABCEP cert and living in w.CO has been a virtual nightmare &
living where I do and having to travel 7 hours each way, stay in a hotel
etc, this is a joke. I may be in the minority but point to make here. Beyond
that I became a wrench because I do not test well [avoided a 4 year degree]
yet I can outline a schematic for electrical or plumbing in my head and
build it the first time correctly.

 

The test schedule and availability - NABCEP needs to open up to local
proctoring, libraries, schools, etc.

2 tests a Year? Electricians can re- test 24 or 48 hours? later and use a
variety of resources. Why can we not?

When an electrician tests they get their results as they walk out of the
test room.  Why do we have to wait 6 weeks? 

The NEC book is the only reference  material at the test when is not doing a
trade about knowing your resources and utilizing them? From what I
understand any number of professions and trades get to use several resource
books. You would think we were going to be secret agents or the like. 

 

I have done off grid for 24 years. Most NABCEP folk who are GT only have not
a clue as to battery based design and should not be allowed to do the same. 

I am "certified" and probably very competent up to 50KW would be just fine
but 100KW or 1MW? This is probably not a brilliant idea without a backup
coach.

Questions on 3 phase on the test? I would ask my licensed master electrician
yet we are asked several questions on 3 phase. I have asked masters and they
have had to go look up the answer.

I would suggest a basic GT cert up to 50KW with a supplemental for >50kw and
a separate adder for off grid. Tests every 2 month or on a scheduled basis
with you local librarian

 

I fly my NABCEP cert in the bathroom and upside down. It is in distress,
stinks, and needs help. The re-wrenches is strangely silent on this much
damaged product called certification.

I see some major issues and would like to start a discussion about how it is
managed.

I think it needs rethinking.

 

Thanks for considering & your opinion?

 

 

Dana Orzel -  Great Solar Works, Inc -  E - d...@solarwork.com -  V
970.626.5253

F - 970.626.4140 C - 970.209.4076 web - www.solarwork.com  

"Responsible Technologies for Responsible People since 1988"

P Please consider the environment before printing this email

 

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Re: [RE-wrenches] NABCEP

[Allan Sindelar]

  
  
Dana, 
I know where you live because I once lived there, and even worked
with you for a short spell in 1994. It's called "mountain paradise",
and you have been able to make a decent living there, doing well the
work you love while living in the heart of it. Part of why it's
paradise is that it's far from any big cities. Seems like a pretty
fair tradeoff to me.

As I understand it, there's a six week wait because the test is
structured to meet national (ANSI?) standards for legitimate
certification. The test is revised each time it's offered; each has
some questions that are different from the last. All of the test
question are checked for the number of incorrect answers, in order
to determine if some questions are sufficiently misleading or
confusing as to warrant being thrown out. That especially benefits
someone such as yourself who doesn't test well.

I'd love to see a separate certification for battery-based systems.
I'd get that one too, as it would mean a much smaller crowd. I'd
also like to see a separate certification for "Commercial GT over
50kW" - I wouldn't even try for that one.

I see the typical electrician's exam, with its immediate results
(for an additional "fee") as the joke. A skilled and knowledgeable
electrician can pass it. A skilled test taker can get 25% right on
that skill alone, and another 50% by taking one of the "no pass no
pay" private test prep courses. You can't do that with the NABCEP
Certification exam. To me that's a good thing.

Methinks you complain too much, sir.
Allan


  
  
  Allan Sindelar
  al...@positiveenergysolar.com
NABCEP Certified Photovoltaic
  Installer
  NABCEP Certified Technical Sales Professional
  New Mexico EE98J Journeyman Electrician
  Founder and Chief Technology Officer
  Positive Energy, Inc.
  3209 Richards Lane (note new address)
  Santa Fe, New Mexico 87507
  505 424-1112
  www.positiveenergysolar.com
  
  
  
   

On 5/24/2012 12:03 PM, Dana wrote:

  
  
  
  
NABCEP has been a
strangely quiet subject on this forum. FYI - I checked with
our honorable moderator prior to posting this.
 
If we are attempting to
expand the field of “certified“ installer and designers why
is NABCEP run the way it is?
 
Getting the NABCEP cert
and living in w.CO has been a virtual nightmare & living
where I do and having to travel 7 hours each way, stay in a
hotel etc, this is a joke. I may be in the minority but
point to make here. Beyond that I became a wrench because I
do not test well [avoided a 4 year degree] yet I can outline
a schematic for electrical or plumbing in my head and build
it the first time correctly.
 
The test schedule and
availability - NABCEP needs to open up to local proctoring,
libraries, schools, etc.
2 tests a Year?
Electricians can re- test 24 or 48 hours? later and use a
variety of resources. Why can we not?
When an electrician
tests they get their results as they walk out of the test
room.  Why do we have to wait 6 weeks? 
The NEC book is the
only reference  material at the test when is not doing a
trade about knowing your resources and utilizing them? From
what I understand any number of professions and trades get
to use several resource books. You would think we were going
to be secret agents or the like. 
 
I have done off grid
for 24 years. Most NABCEP folk who are GT only have not a
clue as to battery based design and should not be allowed to
do the same. 
I am "certified" and
probably very competent up to 50KW would be just fine but
100KW or 1MW? This is probably not a brilliant idea without
a backup coach.
Questions on 3 phase on
the test? I would ask my licensed master electrician yet we
are asked several questions on 3 phase. I have asked masters
and they have had to go look up the answer.
I would suggest a basic
GT cert up to 50KW with a supplemental for >50kw and a
separate adder for off grid. Tests every 2 month or on a
scheduled basis with you local librarian
 
I fly my NABCEP cert in
the bathroom and upside down. It is in distress, stinks, and
needs help. The re-wrenches is strangely silent on this much
damaged product called certification.
I see some major issues
  

Re: [RE-wrenches] Number of Controllers

[Larry Crutcher, Starlight Solar Power Systems]

After looking at their Member section, it seems unlikely that they are pursuing 
the off grid portion of the industry. I see that Outback Power is a member but 
the rest are related to grid tie.

Larry 

On May 24, 2012, at 11:07 AM, Glenn Burt wrote:

Maybe this organization will make some headway on the interoperability
question.

http://www.sunspec.org/

-Glenn Burt

-Original Message-
From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org
[mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of Larry
Crutcher, Starlight Solar Power Systems
Sent: Thursday, May 24, 2012 9:35 AM
To: RE-wrenches
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Number of Controllers

I'm with you on that, William, a communications protocol  for all RE
productsoh, sorry, I was dreaming.

Perhaps the new UCM bridge module will help. Here's a quote about it from
this page http://www.blueskyenergyinc.com/products/details/ucm/

"A standard Modbus RTU interface is provided both as isolated RS-485 and
TCP\IP Ethernet based Modbus/IP. Additional Ethernet connectivity includes a
built in HTTP web site server allowing data view and parameter setup with a
standard web browser either locally, or globally over the Internet without a
subscription. The ability for periodic real time FTP data upload to a remote
server is also provided."

Larry Crutcher
Starlight Solar Power Systems


On May 23, 2012, at 10:46 PM, William Miller wrote:

Larry:

Thank  you for the update on this intriguing product.  It would be helpful
if the charger network could talk to a Mate or an SCP, but I doubt that will
ever happen.  

Here's an idea:  A standard CAT5 protocol for exchanging data/settings in RE
equipment.  Utopia or Chaos?

William

At 10:42 PM 5/23/2012, Larry Crutcher, wrote:
> Colin,
> 
> The IPN Network charge controllers from Blue Sky Energy can be configured
as Master & Slave so ALL controllers work together. With up to 8 controllers
on the network, you can have multiple arrays and orintations. Their new Duo
model will function as hydro or wind diversion control. AND, each controller
has a fully programmable lighting control! Sounds like this is the
controller to meet all your requests. We have sold hundreds and I highly
recommend them.
> 
> Larry Crutcher
> Starlight Solar Power Systems
> (928) 342-9103
> www.starlightsolar.com

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[RE-wrenches] SWPLUS MSRP?

[James Reismiller]

Hi Folks,

   I’m looking at buying a brand new SWPLUS 4024 inverter from one of my
clients for power for a home project.  Does anyone have any idea how much
these sold for when they were available?  I want to give her a fair deal for
this nice piece of gear.  Thanks!

 

Regards,

James Reismiller

NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installer®

Abundant Solar

541-231-8772

CCB#175919

Logo2007-for-outlook

www.abundantsolar.com 


 

”I’d put my money on the sun and solar energy. What a source of power! I
hope we don’t have to wait until oil and coal run out before we tackle
that.”

 

-Thomas Edison

 

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Re: [RE-wrenches] SWPLUS MSRP?

[Allan Sindelar]

  
  
According to a 2008 Xantrex price list, MSRP was $3,025.
Allan


  
  
  Allan Sindelar
  al...@positiveenergysolar.com
NABCEP Certified Photovoltaic
  Installer
  NABCEP Certified Technical Sales Professional
  New Mexico EE98J Journeyman Electrician
  Founder and Chief Technology Officer
  Positive Energy, Inc.
  3209 Richards Lane (note new address)
  Santa Fe, New Mexico 87507
  505 424-1112
  www.positiveenergysolar.com
  
  
  
   

On 5/24/2012 4:44 PM, James Reismiller wrote:

  
  
  
  
  
Hi Folks,
   I’m looking at buying a brand new SWPLUS
  4024 inverter from one of my clients for power for a home
  project.  Does anyone have any idea how much these sold for
  when they were available?  I want to give her a fair deal for
  this nice piece of gear.  Thanks!
 
Regards,
James Reismiller
NABCEP Certified
Solar PV Installer®
Abundant Solar
541-231-8772
CCB#175919

www.abundantsolar.com
 
”I’d
put my money on the sun and solar energy. What a source of
power! I hope we don’t have to wait until oil and coal run
out before we tackle that.”
 
-Thomas
Edison
 
  
  
  
  
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Voltage Datalogger

[Philip Boutelle]

Jason,

Following up William's comment, here's an eGauge with battery voltage
monitoring:  http://egauge2093.egaug.es/

De-select all the register choices at the bottom of the graph except for
"Battery Voltage". The y-scale is in Watts but it's really V-DC; the folks
at eGauge are working on that.

It fits the bill for what you described: no computer required, as the
eGuage is its own web server, but there's an issue here: the eGauge and
HomePlug require at least 85V. If there is any AC on-site (how is the
modem/router powered?), use that to power the eGauge device and get it the
internet connection as well. The benefit of the eGauge is that you get load
monitoring as well.

-Phil


On Thu, May 24, 2012 at 6:01 AM, Jason Szumlanski wrote:

> This customer wants a standalone solution without a computer (direct LAN
> connection). There is no inverter - that was my first thought when he
> called... The pentametric sounds like a possible solution - I'll look into
> that. Thanks for the info!
>
> Jason Szumlanski
> Fafco Solar
>
>
>
>
> On Wed, May 23, 2012 at 3:35 PM, Dan Fink  wrote:
>
>> Hi Jason;
>>
>> This is a big interest of mine also, due to many extremely remote sites
>> with PV installations. Though am more int he market for a deployable
>> voltage monitor where the client can send me data upon their arrival at
>> camp each spring, so i can see what the systems were doing all winter with
>> nobody around but bears, wolves and wolverines.
>>
>> There are numerous ways to go about this; here would be my considerations:
>>
>> ~ Is there an integrated system monitor in place already? As in Outback
>> FlexnetDC, and the Xantrex and Magnum equivilants? If so, much of your work
>> has been done for you. should be quite easy.
>> ~ Is there an external monitor like a trimetric or pentametric? The
>> trimetric would require a computer on all the time (but that could be a
>> tiny linux thing with no display, just and SD card etc). The pentametric
>> can be ordered with an LAN interface so that only the internet and LAN/wifi
>> need be turned on, not a computer;
>> ~ You can talk to Jim Jarvis at APRS World. They have tons of
>> logging/monitoring options they can build for you with integrated
>> LAN/internet monitoring etc.
>>
>> For this year, i am going with some USB pen drive voltage monitors i can
>> deploy on the last day of human occupation at these camps (november 1) and
>> retrieve data when people arrive June 1. The problem is zero sunlight for 2
>> months of winter (high latitude, in a valley in the Skeena Mountain Range)
>> However I think my future may be with Arduino. Not very hard to tell the
>> arduino computer:
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Dan Fink,
>> Executive Director;
>> Otherpower
>> Buckville Energy Consulting
>> Buckville Publications LLC
>> NABCEP / IREC accredited Continuing Education Providers
>> 970.672.4342 (voicemail)
>>
>>
>> On Wed, May 23, 2012 at 1:06 PM, Jason Szumlanski 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> I have a customer interested in monitoring a 48V battery bank's voltage
>>> via the Internet. This is a DC only system. He just needs basic real-time
>>> and historical voltage recording without any bells and whistles. Any cost
>>> effective ideas?
>>>
>>> Jason Szumlanski
>>> Fafco Solar
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
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Re: [RE-wrenches] NABCEP

[Tom Duffy]

Certification is just a business, whether it's for computer Techs or Solar 
Installers, and they seem to be entities unto themselves. I have heard all the 
arguments for certs, but like you said some folks don't test well but are 
knowledgeable others test well but are clueless as to practical applications.

Back a decade or so ago I taught Computer Tech certification (A+) at our local 
university. In one class that I taught I had 23 network admins (Employed as 
such) and managing large networks. Only three tested and one passed. The point 
is all were capable network admins.

The real question is... how does one prove their expertise? Especially to the 
general public. I have seen some real nightmarish off grid systems setup by 
NABCEP installers and Non-NABCEP as well. It is a problem and though I don't 
believe in certification, I also don't have an alternative suggestion either.

Kind Regards

Tom Duffy
Senior Solar Design Engineer

Toll Free 888-895-8179
t...@thesolar.biz
For: Customer Service and Accounting 888-895-6810  Grid tie sales 888-895-7847
Off Grid sales 888-895-7765 Other Product Sales 888-895-9612
Shipping and Receiving 888-895-6497 Tech Support 888-895-8179

From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org 
[mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of Dana
Sent: Thursday, May 24, 2012 12:04 PM
To: 'RE-wrenches'
Subject: [RE-wrenches] NABCEP

NABCEP has been a strangely quiet subject on this forum. FYI - I checked with 
our honorable moderator prior to posting this.

If we are attempting to expand the field of "certified" installer and designers 
why is NABCEP run the way it is?


Getting the NABCEP cert and living in w.CO has been a virtual nightmare & 
living where I do and having to travel 7 hours each way, stay in a hotel etc, 
this is a joke. I may be in the minority but point to make here. Beyond that I 
became a wrench because I do not test well [avoided a 4 year degree] yet I can 
outline a schematic for electrical or plumbing in my head and build it the 
first time correctly.



The test schedule and availability - NABCEP needs to open up to local 
proctoring, libraries, schools, etc.

2 tests a Year? Electricians can re- test 24 or 48 hours? later and use a 
variety of resources. Why can we not?

When an electrician tests they get their results as they walk out of the test 
room.  Why do we have to wait 6 weeks?

The NEC book is the only reference  material at the test when is not doing a 
trade about knowing your resources and utilizing them? From what I understand 
any number of professions and trades get to use several resource books. You 
would think we were going to be secret agents or the like.



I have done off grid for 24 years. Most NABCEP folk who are GT only have not a 
clue as to battery based design and should not be allowed to do the same.

I am "certified" and probably very competent up to 50KW would be just fine but 
100KW or 1MW? This is probably not a brilliant idea without a backup coach.

Questions on 3 phase on the test? I would ask my licensed master electrician 
yet we are asked several questions on 3 phase. I have asked masters and they 
have had to go look up the answer.

I would suggest a basic GT cert up to 50KW with a supplemental for >50kw and a 
separate adder for off grid. Tests every 2 month or on a scheduled basis with 
you local librarian



I fly my NABCEP cert in the bathroom and upside down. It is in distress, 
stinks, and needs help. The re-wrenches is strangely silent on this much 
damaged product called certification.

I see some major issues and would like to start a discussion about how it is 
managed.

I think it needs rethinking.



Thanks for considering & your opinion?


Dana Orzel -  Great Solar Works, Inc -  E - 
d...@solarwork.com -  V 970.626.5253
F - 970.626.4140 C - 970.209.4076 web - 
www.solarwork.com
"Responsible Technologies for Responsible People since 1988"
P Please consider the environment before printing this email

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Re: [RE-wrenches] NABCEP

[Jesse Dahl]

Having been a Carpenter before becoming an electrician, and then working
with PV, I see the need for licencing of some sort.  You can all imagine
the "summer carpenters" I had to deal with.  Without a licensed trade like
plumbers and electricians in MN, anyone can do the work.  To become
a licensed electrician in MN, you need 10,000 hours of verified
work experience (apprenticeship) before you can even sit for the test.
 This makes our license reciprocal with, I believe, any state in the USA.
Last time I checked, if you came from say, Mississippi, you would need to
take our state electrical test to have your licence be accepted here in
MN (I just picked Mississippi).  Not every licensed electrician should be
left alone to wire, let alone run the electrical department at Home Depot!
  There are slackers in all trades.  Well maybe not perfect, to me, NABCEP
offers some kind of verifiable work experience and classroom time.

I am proud of both my state electrical licence and my NABCEP Certs.  Just
my Iron Range opinion.

I do like the idea of an off-grid and "utility" cert as well.


Jesse

On Thu, May 24, 2012 at 7:09 PM, Tom Duffy  wrote:

>  Certification is just a business, whether it’s for computer Techs or
> Solar Installers, and they seem to be entities unto themselves. I have
> heard all the arguments for certs, but like you said some folks don’t test
> well but are knowledgeable others test well but are clueless as to
> practical applications.
>
> ** **
>
> Back a decade or so ago I taught Computer Tech certification (A+) at our
> local university. In one class that I taught I had 23 network admins
> (Employed as such) and managing large networks. Only three tested and one
> passed. The point is all were capable network admins.
>
> ** **
>
> The real question is… how does one prove their expertise? Especially to
> the general public. I have seen some real nightmarish off grid systems
> setup by NABCEP installers and Non-NABCEP as well. It is a problem and
> though I don’t believe in certification, I also don’t have an alternative
> suggestion either.  
>
> * *
>
> Kind Regards
>
> ** **
>
> Tom Duffy
>
> Senior Solar Design Engineer
>
> ** **
>
> Toll Free 888-895-8179
>
> t...@thesolar.biz
>
> For: Customer Service and Accounting 888-895-6810  Grid tie sales
> 888-895-7847 
>
> Off Grid sales 888-895-7765 Other Product Sales 888-895-9612 
>
> Shipping and Receiving 888-895-6497 Tech Support 888-895-8179
>
> * *
>
> *From:* re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto:
> re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] *On Behalf Of *Dana
> *Sent:* Thursday, May 24, 2012 12:04 PM
> *To:* 'RE-wrenches'
> *Subject:* [RE-wrenches] NABCEP
>
> ** **
>
> NABCEP has been a strangely quiet subject on this forum. FYI - I checked
> with our honorable moderator prior to posting this.
>
> ** **
>
> If we are attempting to expand the field of “certified“ installer and
> designers why is NABCEP run the way it is?
>
> ** **
>
> Getting the NABCEP cert and living in w.CO has been a virtual nightmare &
> living where I do and having to travel 7 hours each way, stay in a hotel
> etc, this is a joke. I may be in the minority but point to make here.
> Beyond that I became a wrench because I do not test well [avoided a 4 year
> degree] yet I can outline a schematic for electrical or plumbing in my head
> and build it the first time correctly.
>
> ** **
>
> The test schedule and availability - NABCEP needs to open up to local
> proctoring, libraries, schools, etc.
>
> 2 tests a Year? Electricians can re- test 24 or 48 hours? later and use a
> variety of resources. Why can we not?
>
> When an electrician tests they get their results as they walk out of the
> test room.  Why do we have to wait 6 weeks? 
>
> The NEC book is the only reference  material at the test when is not doing
> a trade about knowing your resources and utilizing them? From what I
> understand any number of professions and trades get to use several resource
> books. You would think we were going to be secret agents or the like. 
>
> ** **
>
> I have done off grid for 24 years. Most NABCEP folk who are GT only have
> not a clue as to battery based design and should not be allowed to do the
> same. 
>
> I am "certified" and probably very competent up to 50KW would be just fine
> but 100KW or 1MW? This is probably not a brilliant idea without a backup
> coach.
>
> Questions on 3 phase on the test? I would ask my licensed master
> electrician yet we are asked several questions on 3 phase. I have asked
> masters and they have had to go look up the answer.
>
> I would suggest a basic GT cert up to 50KW with a supplemental for >50kw
> and a separate adder for off grid. Tests every 2 month or on a scheduled
> basis with you local librarian
>
> ** **
>
> I fly my NABCEP cert in the bathroom and upside down. It is in distress,
> stinks, and needs help. The re-wrenche

Re: [RE-wrenches] SWPLUS MSRP?

[William Miller]

James:

If you can't also purchase an AGM unit, the entire package is worthless.

William Miller


At 03:44 PM 5/24/2012, you wrote:

Content-Type: multipart/related;
boundary="=_NextPart_000_0022_01CD39C4.204CCDD0"
Content-Language: en-us

Hi Folks,
   I'm looking at buying a brand new SWPLUS 4024 inverter from one of my 
clients for power for a home project.  Does anyone have any idea how much 
these sold for when they were available?  I want to give her a fair deal 
for this nice piece of gear.  Thanks!


Regards,
James Reismiller


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Re: [RE-wrenches] Number of Controllers

[Philip]

The origins of SunSpec certainly started with grid tie, as that's where the 
volume has been. However, they've welcomed participation in creating a charge 
controller standard with open arms, and they are actively developing an 
inverter control standard. OutBack just received certification at the Spring 
Plugfest for a Modbus device which provides remote monitoring and control 
capabilities, and SunSpec is working to get more participation from other 
battery based manufacturers. 

By driving standardization, we all win. Few of us can afford to develop a 
custom developed monitoring platform, especially at the relatively low volume 
of most battery based installs. However, if we could chose gear which can plug 
the data from a charge controller, say, into a standard monitoring platform 
from one company and add environmentals from another box without custom drivers 
and interfaces, life is good. 

Btw, I have an IPN controller and pro remote display in my mutt-mix system in 
my home, and it's a great combination. I have a high level of respect for Rick, 
and like yourself I highly recommend his IPN gear. 

Phil Undercuffler




On May 24, 2012, at 1:04 PM, "Larry Crutcher, Starlight Solar Power 
Systems" wrote:

> After looking at their Member section, it seems unlikely that they are 
> pursuing the off grid portion of the industry. I see that Outback Power is a 
> member but the rest are related to grid tie.
> 
> Larry 
> 
> On May 24, 2012, at 11:07 AM, Glenn Burt wrote:
> 
> Maybe this organization will make some headway on the interoperability
> question.
> 
> http://www.sunspec.org/
> 
> -Glenn Burt
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org
> [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of Larry
> Crutcher, Starlight Solar Power Systems
> Sent: Thursday, May 24, 2012 9:35 AM
> To: RE-wrenches
> Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Number of Controllers
> 
> I'm with you on that, William, a communications protocol  for all RE
> productsoh, sorry, I was dreaming.
> 
> Perhaps the new UCM bridge module will help. Here's a quote about it from
> this page http://www.blueskyenergyinc.com/products/details/ucm/
> 
> "A standard Modbus RTU interface is provided both as isolated RS-485 and
> TCP\IP Ethernet based Modbus/IP. Additional Ethernet connectivity includes a
> built in HTTP web site server allowing data view and parameter setup with a
> standard web browser either locally, or globally over the Internet without a
> subscription. The ability for periodic real time FTP data upload to a remote
> server is also provided."
> 
> Larry Crutcher
> Starlight Solar Power Systems
> 
> 
> On May 23, 2012, at 10:46 PM, William Miller wrote:
> 
> Larry:
> 
> Thank  you for the update on this intriguing product.  It would be helpful
> if the charger network could talk to a Mate or an SCP, but I doubt that will
> ever happen.  
> 
> Here's an idea:  A standard CAT5 protocol for exchanging data/settings in RE
> equipment.  Utopia or Chaos?
> 
> William
> 
> At 10:42 PM 5/23/2012, Larry Crutcher, wrote:
>> Colin,
>> 
>> The IPN Network charge controllers from Blue Sky Energy can be configured
> as Master & Slave so ALL controllers work together. With up to 8 controllers
> on the network, you can have multiple arrays and orintations. Their new Duo
> model will function as hydro or wind diversion control. AND, each controller
> has a fully programmable lighting control! Sounds like this is the
> controller to meet all your requests. We have sold hundreds and I highly
> recommend them.
>> 
>> Larry Crutcher
>> Starlight Solar Power Systems
>> (928) 342-9103
>> www.starlightsolar.com
> 
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