Re: [RE-wrenches] Corrective EQ question

[Kent Osterberg]

Allan,

My first thought about the high s.g. measurements is that the 
electrolyte level may have been low when the measurements were made. 
When full, there is about a liter of electrolyte above the plates in a 
L16. The s.g. will rise by 0.03 if the electrolyte level is at the top 
of the plates.


Kent Osterberg
Blue Mountain Solar, Inc.
www.bluemountainsolar.com
t: 541-568-4882


On 6/1/2012 1:28 PM, Allan Sindelar wrote:

Wrenches,
A long-time off grid client has a 48V Outback VFX system, with 1,680 
watts of PV and two strings (16 batteries total) of Deka L16s, 
installed last October. The array is undersized, as the system is 
running three households; one efficient home and two single-person 
tiny homes, but still too much for the system. We learned a few weeks 
ago that the system had apparently stayed at 30-50% SOC for the entire 
winter (this is approximate, as her TriMetric monitors would 
eventually drift away from % accuracy if never allowed to get full and 
reset). Eventually the batteries became sufficiently sulfated that the 
system began shutting down.


As the batteries were nearly new, we figured that the sulfation had 
not yet become permanently crystallized, and they could recover. We 
initiated a long "corrective equalization" from her combined generator 
(45A DC from the single inverter) and MX60 controller, for a maximum 
C/12.5 charge rate; less in proportion to any loads that were on while 
charging. She ran this procedure for three hours/day for five days, 
and when that offered only partial recovery (as measured by specific 
gravity measured with a refractometer), ran for six hours/day for five 
days. During this time the MX60 was also manually set to EQ each 
morning, with a 62V EQ voltage and 3 hour EQ time, so that the array 
would add its amperage to the gennie until the batteries had been 
above this setting for three hours.


We went out there yesterday, arriving while the EQ was in process. All 
of the cells had recovered, as measured by SG. SG readings were all in 
the 1.280 - 1.300 range, with most above 1.290. We had never seen SG 
readings this high before. Given the situation and the back story, 
should we have any concern about the high SG readings?


Thank you,
Allan
--
*Allan Sindelar*
_Allan@positiveenergysolar.com_ 
NABCEP Certified Photovoltaic Installer
NABCEP Certified Technical Sales Professional
New Mexico EE98J Journeyman Electrician
Founder and Chief Technology Officer
*Positive Energy, Inc.*
3209 Richards Lane (note new address)
Santa Fe, New Mexico 87507
*505 424-1112*
_www.positiveenergysolar.com_ 

*
*




___
List sponsored by Home Power magazine

List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org

Options&  settings:
http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org

List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org

List rules&  etiquette:
www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm

Check out participant bios:
www.members.re-wrenches.org

___
List sponsored by Home Power magazine

List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org

Options & settings:
http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org

List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org

List rules & etiquette:
www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm

Check out participant bios:
www.members.re-wrenches.org

Re: [RE-wrenches] SMA HF inverters

[Steve Jefferson]

Please contact me off line for support.

I have not seen or heard of any know issues with our HF units.

SMA America, LLC
Steve Jefferson
Sr. Technical Service Specialist, Sunny Family
6020 West Oaks Blvd, Suite 300
Rocklin, CA 95765 - 3714
U.S.A.
Tel:  +1 916 625 0870
Fax: +1 916 624-2445
Service Line +1 877 697 6283 (Toll Free)
Email: steve.jeffer...@sma-america.com
www.SMA-America.com

This email and any attachments thereto may contain SMA America, LLC 
confidential, privileged and private material for the sole use of the intended 
recipient. Any review, copying, or distribution of this email (or any 
attachments thereto) by others is strictly prohibited. If you are not the 
intended recipient, please contact the sender immediately and permanently 
delete the original and any copies of this email and any attachments thereto. 
Thank you.

From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org 
[mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of Marco 
Mangelsdorf
Sent: Friday, June 01, 2012 1:04 PM
To: 'RE-wrenches'
Subject: [RE-wrenches] SMA HF inverters

We're seeing a disturbing frequency of problems with the 2, 2.5 and 3 kW Sunny 
Boy HF inverters.

Anyone else having issues as well?

Thanks,
marco

___
List sponsored by Home Power magazine

List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org

Options & settings:
http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org

List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org

List rules & etiquette:
www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm

Check out participant bios:
www.members.re-wrenches.org

[RE-wrenches] Corrective EQ question

[Allan Sindelar]

  
  
Wrenches,
A long-time off grid client has a 48V Outback VFX system, with 1,680
watts of PV and two strings (16 batteries total) of Deka L16s,
installed last October. The array is undersized, as the system is
running three households; one efficient home and two single-person
tiny homes, but still too much for the system. We learned a few
weeks ago that the system had apparently stayed at 30-50% SOC for
the entire winter (this is approximate, as her TriMetric monitors
would eventually drift away from % accuracy if never allowed to get
full and reset). Eventually the batteries became sufficiently
sulfated that the system began shutting down.

As the batteries were nearly new, we figured that the sulfation had
not yet become permanently crystallized, and they could recover. We
initiated a long "corrective equalization" from her combined
generator (45A DC from the single inverter) and MX60 controller, for
a maximum C/12.5 charge rate; less in proportion to any loads that
were on while charging. She ran this procedure for three hours/day
for five days, and when that offered only partial recovery (as
measured by specific gravity measured with a refractometer), ran for
six hours/day for five days. During this time the MX60 was also
manually set to EQ each morning, with a 62V EQ voltage and 3 hour EQ
time, so that the array would add its amperage to the gennie until
the batteries had been above this setting for three hours.

We went out there yesterday, arriving while the EQ was in process.
All of the cells had recovered, as measured by SG. SG readings were
all in the 1.280 - 1.300 range, with most above 1.290. We had never
seen SG readings this high before. Given the situation and the back
story, should we have any concern about the high SG readings?

Thank you,
Allan
-- 
  
  
  Allan Sindelar
  al...@positiveenergysolar.com
NABCEP Certified Photovoltaic
  Installer
  NABCEP Certified Technical Sales Professional
  New Mexico EE98J Journeyman Electrician
  Founder and Chief Technology Officer
  Positive Energy, Inc.
  3209 Richards Lane (note new address)
  Santa Fe, New Mexico 87507
  505 424-1112
  www.positiveenergysolar.com
  
  
  
   
  

___
List sponsored by Home Power magazine

List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org

Options & settings:
http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org

List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org

List rules & etiquette:
www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm

Check out participant bios:
www.members.re-wrenches.org

[RE-wrenches] SMA HF inverters

[Marco Mangelsdorf]

We're seeing a disturbing frequency of problems with the 2, 2.5 and 3 kW
Sunny Boy HF inverters.

 

Anyone else having issues as well?

 

Thanks,

marco

 

___
List sponsored by Home Power magazine

List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org

Options & settings:
http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org

List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org

List rules & etiquette:
www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm

Check out participant bios:
www.members.re-wrenches.org

Re: [RE-wrenches] AC Coupling

[Steve Higgins]

Dana,

Please contact me off list and I'll get you a couple of drawings...

They are too big for the list.

If anyone else wants them I'll send them to you to.

Also keep and eye on Solar Pro, we just finished a good article on ac coupling.

Steve Higgins
Sales Application Engineering Mgr
African Business Development Mgr.
Direct 360-618-4313
Outback Power Technologies
5917 195th Street NE Arlington, Washington 98223




From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org 
[mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of Dana
Sent: Thursday, May 31, 2012 5:34 AM
To: 'RE-wrenches'
Subject: [RE-wrenches] AC Coupling

I currently have a dual Outback GTVFX system for the office at home and am 
adding an SMA 4KW GIT system. We are going for 100% solar powered on the office 
& home. Yahoo!

I would like to be able to AC support the battery based GTVFX system in the 
event of an extended power outage. I spoke with Outback and they said to feed 
the output of the GTVFX[s], & that they did not have a drawing to support this 
installation.

Would anyone who has done this setup, be willing to share a one line or 
schematic drawing?

Thanks in advance.

Dana Orzel - Great Solar Works, Inc -  E - d...@solarwork.com -  V 970.626.5253
F - 970.626.4140 C - 970.209.4076 web - www.solarwork.com
"Responsible Technologies for Responsible People since 1988"
Please consider the environment before printing this email   NABCEP # 051112-136

___
List sponsored by Home Power magazine

List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org

Options & settings:
http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org

List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org

List rules & etiquette:
www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm

Check out participant bios:
www.members.re-wrenches.org

[RE-wrenches] C100 controller repair

[All Solar, Inc.]

Wrenches,
Anyone know how to contact John Klima, past COSEIA president.  I had used his 
services in the past to repair an old C100 Diff. Controller.

Thanks in advance!

Jeremy,

All Solar, Inc.
Jeremy and Amy Rodriguez
1463 M St
Penrose, CO 81240
www.asolarelectric.com
Phone 719-372-3808
Fax 719-372-3804
Email allso...@scswifi.net
Email allso...@live.com___
List sponsored by Home Power magazine

List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org

Options & settings:
http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org

List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org

List rules & etiquette:
www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm

Check out participant bios:
www.members.re-wrenches.org

Re: [RE-wrenches] De-Sulphators. The last word?

[Tom Duffy]

I have to agree with Larry… a properly sized, designed and charged series 
battery bank does not need “magic elixir” and if you add it to an old poorly 
designed bank it still will be poorly designed, even if you could fix the hard 
sulphation the problem would re-appear. I have never seen this stuff work 
however in my 45 years in the battery business.

Kind Regards

Tom Duffy
Senior Solar Design Engineer

Toll Free 888-895-8179
t...@thesolar.biz
For: Customer Service and Accounting 888-895-6810  Grid tie sales 888-895-7847
Off Grid sales 888-895-7765 Other Product Sales 888-895-9612
Shipping and Receiving 888-895-6497 Tech Support 888-895-8179

From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org 
[mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of William Dorsett
Sent: Monday, May 28, 2012 3:16 PM
To: 'RE-wrenches'
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] De-Sulphators. The last word?

If this is a fancy name for EDTA, perhaps 10 years ago I went through virtually 
all of the previous 15 years of Chemical Abstracts to see if there were ANY 
reference to its working. And while there were hundreds of scholarly abstracts 
on lead acid chemistry, there was only 1 that mentioned EDTA and that was a 
mixed review and attributed any benefit to the ion with which EDTA was combined 
as a salt. Like desulfators, there may be anecdotal hearsay, but little science.

Bill Dorsett
Sunwrights
Manhattan, KS

From: 
re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org
 
[mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org]
 On Behalf Of Jonathan Hill
Sent: Monday, May 28, 2012 12:33 PM
To: RE-wrenches
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] De-Sulphators. The last word?

Try Thermoil deslphator additive. Has good reviews. We are selling it.

Jon Hill
Sierra Solar Systems

On May 28, 2012, at 7:17 PM, "Larry Crutcher, Starlight Solar Power 
Systems"mailto:la...@starlightsolar.com>> wrote:
Dan,

I'm perplexed. Where was anything mentioned about de-sulphators? Where was 
anyone "slammed"? What in the world are you talking about? Perhaps you meant to 
reply to someone else's thread. BTW, I do not recommend a desulfator or pulser 
be installed on batteries.

I'll reiterate my points:
1. KC-120's from a certain production era fail and can be warranted.
2. Applying enough load will cause full current to flow from a PV array.
3. Sulfated batteries have high resistance causing a quick rise in voltage.

I welcome your response but please reply off list.

Respectfully yours,

Larry

On May 28, 2012, at 6:42 AM, 
mailto:d...@foxfire-energy.com>> 
mailto:d...@foxfire-energy.com>> wrote:

Seems I have a stalwart "Battery Specialist" in the neighborhood still 
convincing folks that de sulphators are the smartest thing since sliced bread 
(And slamming anyone who disagrees). In my experience, sparklers have little to 
no effect on battery longevity and in most cases add unlisted, hazardous and 
unnecessary wiring devices to a potentially hazardous environment. Is tar and 
feathering still an acceptable means of dispute resolution.. or am I totally 
missing something? tks db

Dan Brown
Foxfire Energy Corp.
Renewable Energy Systems
(802)-483-2564
www.Foxfire-Energy.com
NABCEP #092907-44

 Original Message 
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Troubleshooting Off-grid PV
From: "Larry Crutcher, Starlight Solar Power Systems"
mailto:la...@starlightsolar.com>>
Date: Sun, May 27, 2012 7:37 pm
To: RE-wrenches 
mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org>>

Hi Eric,

Check the dates on the KC-120 module label. If any were manufactured between 
January 1999 and December 2002, they have or will fail. We have been replacing 
these modules for over 8 years now. There was a defective solder joint during 
manufacture. Kyocera will still replace them under warranty even though they 
have no legal requirement to do so. They will ship you remanufactured 120's and 
pay for return shipping. Contact Kyocera about the procedure.

If the batteries are sulfated, they will not produce the load necessary to 
drive the current high. Capacity has nothing to do with it; internal resistance 
does. You can test the array by pulling the voltage down (turn on some big 
loads) at solar noon. This will force the controller into bulk and reveal the 
maximum current the array can produce. I think you have two problems here. With 
bad modules, you may not see much.

It is typical for a controller to transition to float very early in the charge 
cycle if the battery is sulfated. Look for a fast rise in voltage in the 
morning. This is an indicator of sulfated battery. A healthy battery will 
slowly climb in voltage.

Let me k now if you need more understanding about batteries, charging and why 
MOST of them never see old age. It's my speciality.

Larry Crutcher
Starlight Solar Power Systems
(928) 342-9103


___
List sponso

Re: [RE-wrenches] NABCEP

[Christopher Warfel]

I conduct a lot of program inspections. I estimate @ 120-150/year mostly 
in the northeast. I have noticed that w/r to the quality of the 
installation, I can usually tell when the installer is not NABCEP 
certified.  There are exceptions to this, but in general the systems 
with the most amount of problems are by non NABCEP installers.  This is 
a dynamic industry right now, and keeping up with all changes is 
difficult and time consuming (and who has time).  NABCEP, Solar Pro, 
HomePower, and several good text books are just about the only way I can 
almost keep up. Chris


On 6/1/2012 8:14 AM, Chris Mason wrote:
I really appreciate the effort that NABCEP takes to ensure the 
certification has value. Being in the Caribbean, I find that having a 
NABCEP PV certification ends the conversation on competency before it 
begins, as no international company expects to find capable people 
here. Being NABCEP certified makes a hugh impression on investors and 
clients



--
Chris Mason
President, Comet Systems Ltd
www.cometenergysystems.com 
Cell: 264.235.5670
Skype: netconcepts



___
List sponsored by Home Power magazine

List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org

Options&  settings:
http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org

List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org

List rules&  etiquette:
www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm

Check out participant bios:
www.members.re-wrenches.org



--

Christopher Warfel, P.E.
ENTECH Engineering, Inc.
Energy Utilization Experts
(401)466-8978

The information contained within this communication shall
be considered confidential and shall not be retransmitted
without knowledge of the sender. Please contact us if
this email reached you in error. Thank you.

___
List sponsored by Home Power magazine

List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org

Options & settings:
http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org

List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org

List rules & etiquette:
www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm

Check out participant bios:
www.members.re-wrenches.org

Re: [RE-wrenches] NABCEP

[Chris Mason]

I really appreciate the effort that NABCEP takes to ensure the
certification has value. Being in the Caribbean, I find that having a
NABCEP PV certification ends the conversation on competency before it
begins, as no international company expects to find capable people here.
Being NABCEP certified makes a hugh impression on investors and clients


-- 
Chris Mason
President, Comet Systems Ltd
www.cometenergysystems.com
Cell: 264.235.5670
Skype: netconcepts
___
List sponsored by Home Power magazine

List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org

Options & settings:
http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org

List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org

List rules & etiquette:
www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm

Check out participant bios:
www.members.re-wrenches.org