[RE-wrenches] PV-direct electric water heating

[Hilton Dier III]

I believe my PV-water-heating friend has an Outback in diversion mode, 
so the charge profile is stepped, as Conrad noted. He has a 4 kW PV 
system and a frugal household, so in the summer it takes care of about a 
third of his DHW needs.


Hilton

--
Hilton Dier III
Renewable Energy Design
Partner, Solar Gain LLC
453 East Hill Rd.
Middlesex, VT 05602

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[RE-wrenches] Envoy on ATT Hotspot

[Drake]

Hello Wrenches,

We are attempting to connect an Envoy to an ATT wireless Internet 
system.  Since the system provides no RJ 45 ports, we need some other 
device to bridge the wireless connection to the web.


Enphase recommended a Cradle Point router, which might have some 
issues, as the site is limited access.  It will be tuned on and off 
with a power strip switch.  I called the 3G Store, and they 
recommended a "Pepwave Surf 
Mini."  http://3gstore.com/product/1813_pepwave-surf-mini-200.html 
From the description, it sounds like it would work.


Has anyone connected a system like this to the Internet?  What 
equipment would you recommend?  Also, if for some reason this is not 
possible, please let me know that.


Thank you,

Drake


Drake Chamberlin
Athens Electric LLC
OH License 44810
CO License 3773
NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installer
740-448-7328
http://athens-electric.com/
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Envoy on ATT Hotspot

[SwingJunkie]

Drake,
We installed a similar system several years back. The client had a Verizon MiFi 
Internet connection device.  We installed a wireless Ethernet  bridge which was 
equipped with RJ-45  ports. Configured the ethernet bridge to connect to the 
MiFi unit.  Plugged the envoy into the wireless ethernet Bridge and voilà. 

This client travels with the MiFi device at times and so the enlighten sends a 
message saying the envoy failed to report. Once the  MiFi unit is back in the 
residence the envoy reconnect's and uploads data no problems. 

Similarly another client purchased a device from cricket mobile similar to the 
MiFi unit and the same connection strategy applied data plan for the cricket 
unit was approximately $15 a month. 

Cheers
Carl

On May 16, 2013, at 10:57 AM, Drake  
wrote:

Hello Wrenches,

We are attempting to connect an Envoy to an ATT wireless Internet system.  
Since the system provides no RJ 45 ports, we need some other device to bridge 
the wireless connection to the web.

Enphase recommended a Cradle Point router, which might have some issues, as the 
site is limited access.  It will be tuned on and off with a power strip switch. 
 I called the 3G Store, and they recommended a "Pepwave Surf Mini."   
http://3gstore.com/product/1813_pepwave-surf-mini-200.html  From the 
description, it sounds like it would work.  

Has anyone connected a system like this to the Internet?  What equipment would 
you recommend?  Also, if for some reason this is not possible, please let me 
know that.

Thank you,

Drake 


Drake Chamberlin
Athens Electric LLC
OH License 44810
CO License 3773
NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installer
740-448-7328
http://athens-electric.com/ 
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Envoy on ATT Hotspot

[Nick Soleil]

Hi Drake,

We generally don't recommend connecting through a cell modem because they
aren't very reliable and some data charges may occur on large systems.  How
many microinverters are reporting to the Envoy?

Sometimes, the cell modem will disconnect any device that has been
connected to it for more than 4 hours, which requires re-setting the
modem.  You may be able to configure it in a way to prevent that.

If you do need to connect the Envoy to a USB device, then a Cradle Point
MBR-900 would be a good router to use.


On Thu, May 16, 2013 at 7:57 AM, Drake  wrote:

>  Hello Wrenches,
>
> We are attempting to connect an Envoy to an ATT wireless Internet system.
> Since the system provides no RJ 45 ports, we need some other device to
> bridge the wireless connection to the web.
>
> Enphase recommended a Cradle Point router, which might have some issues,
> as the site is limited access.  It will be tuned on and off with a power
> strip switch.  I called the 3G Store, and they recommended a "Pepwave Surf
> Mini."  http://3gstore.com/product/1813_pepwave-surf-mini-200.html  From
> the description, it sounds like it would work.
>
> Has anyone connected a system like this to the Internet?  What equipment
> would you recommend?  Also, if for some reason this is not possible, please
> let me know that.
>
> Thank you,
>
> Drake
>
>
> Drake Chamberlin
> *Athens Electric LLC
> OH License 44810
> CO License 3773
> NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installer
> 740-448-7328
> *http://athens-electric.com/
>
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>
>


-- 

Cordially,

*Nick Soleil*

*Field Applications Engineer
*

*Enphase Energy*

Mobile: (707) 321-2937


**

*Enphase Commercial Solar.*
*Limitless.*

*
*

1420 North McDowell

Petaluma, CA 94954

www.enphase.com 

P: (707) 763-4784 x7267

F: (707) 763-0784

E: nsol...@enphaseenergy.com

[image: nabcep logo] Certified Solar PV Installer #03262011-300

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to fission. And it just so happens that there’s an enormous fusion reactor
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[RE-wrenches] PV-direct electric water heating

[Ross Taylor]

You mean like this? http://www.ngeus.com/SunBandit.aspx
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Re: [RE-wrenches] PV-direct electric water heating

[Luke Christy]

Hi Wrenches,
Thanks for your input. I agree that the PV water heating setup as I presented 
it has some obvious issues. However, as PV folks I think we all have a 
gut-level aversion to using PV energy for heating of any kind. As modules 
continue to get get cheaper I think some heating applications will emerge that 
make sense despite the collective instinct to gasp in horror. 


The Legionnaire's Disease point is an issue as the water in the tank will 
probably not be heated above 140 F very often with PV alone, (unless the 
homeowners are away for a few days). It seems like that could be dealt with by 
setting the tankless heater's delivery temp fairly high for disinfection 
purposes, say 140-145 F, then feeding the output to a thermostatic mixing valve 
to reduce it to a safer delivery temperature. There would be an efficiency 
penalty there, but it probably wouldn't be that significant. As Steven pointed 
out, tankless heaters do have a dead band where they won't add heat to 
preheated water, but in my experience with the right heater that band is only 
10-15º F wide (below the delivery set point). 

On the other hand some of the PV-direct issues are hard to avoid, such as the 
array operating out of the MPPT range a lot of the time and the need for a 
150VDC rated relay as David pointed out . If the idea turns into a project I 
may end up revisiting a diversion load arrangement with the existing 
battery-based system. Though I still think the PV-direct idea has potential.

Thanks again.


Luke Christy

NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional™: Certification #031409-25 
NABCEP Certified Solar Heating Installer™: Certification #ST032611-03   
CoSEIA Certified PV Installer 

Solar Gain Services, LLC
PO Box 531
Monte Vista, CO. 81144
sgsrenewab...@gmail.com
719.588.3044
www.sgsrenewables.com

   







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Re: [RE-wrenches] PV-direct electric water heating

[frenergy]

Luke and others,

   Sorry if I've missed something in this conversation, I'm trying to 
figure out how Legionnaires Disease is an issue with hot water heaters that 
run below 140 F.  conventional water heaters come (in CA) factory set below 
140 F., I assume (there I go again) for reasons of scalding safety and 
energy conservation.


   And personally, I am very interested in PV water heating.  Yes, I 
have your same gut reaction to using PV to heat, though I have judiciously 
done this (and suggested it to others) in some certain instances.  With 
water heating in particular I appreciate the advantages of PV to do the job 
for reasons like: Simplicity, no glycol and no glycol maintenance, no leaks, 
no heat exchanger, no pumps, no failing pumps, easier to deal with 
prevention of overheating (depends on the SDHW type system employed), no air 
locks/failed air vents.


   It seems like a shoe-in for connecting a PV supply to the lower 
element of a 240vac conventional tank and have grid supplied power to the 
top element to back-up the PV.  I suppose if you're grid connected, you 
would just add 4-6-8 more PVs to the array and connect the WH like you 
always would. I just did some quick math for 6 more 250 watt PVs, racking, 
next size up inverter and you're just below the cost of a SDHW thermal 
system.


   Yes, I understand this is only possible to talk about because of the 
current PV prices but I feel it's worth pursuing.  The conversation is of 
course somewhat different if we're talking off-grid with other heat sources 
E.G.: propane, woodstove and no using the grid for excess production or 
back-up.


Thanks for any more enlightenment on this.

Bill
Feather River Solar Electric



- Original Message - 
From: "Luke Christy" 

To: 
Sent: Thursday, May 16, 2013 12:22 PM
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] PV-direct electric water heating


Hi Wrenches,
Thanks for your input. I agree that the PV water heating setup as I 
presented it has some obvious issues. However, as PV folks I think we all 
have a gut-level aversion to using PV energy for heating of any kind. As 
modules continue to get get cheaper I think some heating applications will 
emerge that make sense despite the collective instinct to gasp in horror.



The Legionnaire's Disease point is an issue as the water in the tank will 
probably not be heated above 140 F very often with PV alone, (unless the 
homeowners are away for a few days). It seems like that could be dealt with 
by setting the tankless heater's delivery temp fairly high for disinfection 
purposes, say 140-145 F, then feeding the output to a thermostatic mixing 
valve to reduce it to a safer delivery temperature. There would be an 
efficiency penalty there, but it probably wouldn't be that significant. As 
Steven pointed out, tankless heaters do have a dead band where they won't 
add heat to preheated water, but in my experience with the right heater that 
band is only 10-15º F wide (below the delivery set point).


On the other hand some of the PV-direct issues are hard to avoid, such as 
the array operating out of the MPPT range a lot of the time and the need for 
a 150VDC rated relay as David pointed out . If the idea turns into a project 
I may end up revisiting a diversion load arrangement with the existing 
battery-based system. Though I still think the PV-direct idea has potential.


Thanks again.


Luke Christy

NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional™: Certification #031409-25
NABCEP Certified Solar Heating Installer™: Certification #ST032611-03
CoSEIA Certified PV Installer

Solar Gain Services, LLC
PO Box 531
Monte Vista, CO. 81144
sgsrenewab...@gmail.com
719.588.3044
www.sgsrenewables.com




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