Re: [RE-wrenches] Load Management vs Multiple Inverters and OutBack Radian vs Flexware systems

[William Miller]

Dave:



The official answer is that, no, you cannot upgrade a 4 kW to an 8 kW.
There was a hint that there was a non-supported way to do this, but I would
not want to attempt this until after the unit was out of warranty.



William





[image: Gradient Cap_mini]
Lic 773985
millersolar.com 
805-438-5600



*From:* RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] *On
Behalf Of *Dave Palumbo
*Sent:* Thursday, December 15, 2016 3:45 PM
*To:* 'RE-wrenches' 
*Subject:* Re: [RE-wrenches] Load Management vs Multiple Inverters and
OutBack Radian vs Flexware systems



Very helpful William! Thank you. I will work with the client to get the
load profile to a point where one 8kW Radian will meet all the household
needs, but it is more likely that 2 Radians will be needed.

Is it possible/practical to parallel a Radian GS8048 with a GS4048? If so,
can the GS4048 be upgraded to 8k in the future?



I will  reach out to you, off wrench list, for more info on your Radian
 GSLC cabinet methods.



Dave Palumbo



*From:* RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org
] *On Behalf Of *William Miller
*Sent:* Thursday, December 15, 2016 2:18 PM
*To:* RE-wrenches
*Subject:* Re: [RE-wrenches] Load Management vs Multiple Inverters and
OutBack Radian vs Flexware systems



Dave:



Here are the differences between the Outback Radian and FX inverters that I
think are pertinent to your situation:



1.The Radian has generator support.  Don’t confuse this with generator
start.  Gen support allows the inverter to sync to and aid the generator in
providing power to loads.  The new FX inverter is the FXR and I am not sure
it has this capability.  It is worth checking into.  Avoid an inverter
without this function.

2.The Radian provides more power per hub-port than does the FX series.
The Radian can provide 8 kw per hub port while the FX maxes out at 3.6 kW
per port.   This may not seem important but it can be.  If you have a
Flexnet DC unit it occupies on port, therefore you are limited to 32 Kw
(3.6 * 9 ports).  With Radian, you are allowed up to 72 Kw (8*9 ports).
And if you reach these maximums, there are no ports for charge
controllers.  I wish Outback would put some resources into eliminating this
bottleneck (and allow more than one Mate, please).

3.I am not fond of the X240 transformer system.  I have seen too many
instances of tripped breakers.  The power save scheme is awkward when using
FX inverters, and if you ask three Outback employees about setting this
function you will get three answers.

4.Outback supposedly has a white paper on stacking more than two
Radians, but I can’t seem to find it.  Lones, do you have access to this?

5.You are correct in looking at battery charging ratings.  With a big
system comes big batteries.  You want to be able to charge them in an
appropriate length of time.



I always hesitate to try and comingle equipment from too many different
manufacturers.  Battery inverter systems are finicky enough as they are.
This may preclude load management.  Consider how you would implement this:
it would mean contactors, maybe an additional sub-panel, wiring, etc.
Sounds problematic to me.



Wiring a Radian system is different than wiring a Flexware system.  I find
the Radian easier now that I have learned a few tricks:



1.Remove all AC breakers from the GSLC cabinets.  Instead use two
outboard load centers: one for generator fed and one for inverter fed.  To
provide bypass, run the generator power to the inverter fed panel and
provide breaker interlocks.  For smaller systems use a factory provided
interlock.  For larger systems, we custom build breaker interlocks.
Contact me off-line for more information.

2.Remove all of the PV breakers from the GSLC.  You can use a Midnite
DIN rail or panel mount breaker cabinet or even an Outback combiner to
mount din rail mount your PV and charge controller breakers.



I hope this helps.



William Miller





[image: Gradient Cap_mini]
Lic 773985
millersolar.com 
805-438-5600







On Dec 15, 2016, at 10:08 AM, Dave Palumbo  wrote:



Wrenchers,



I am involved in designing an off grid system that will need  multiple
inverters (probably OutBack). My experience over the years has been limited
to no more than 8kW's of inverter on a big system (for me). The load
profile is not completed yet, but it is looking like this may require more
power if all of the loads were to be on/surge at the same time. The client
wants things to run as seamlessly as practical and has the means to pay for
a nice system.

· Are automatic load management devices worth looking into? I have
no experience with them except for one of my off griders (early adopter
type) had one put in about 15 years ago on his system and I think it worked
OK but it seemed like a lot of money and work to install and it takes up
some space. More technical stuff to deal with.

· 

Re: [RE-wrenches] Load Management vs Multiple Inverters and OutBack Radian vs Flexware systems

[Dave Palumbo]

Very helpful William! Thank you. I will work with the client to get the load 
profile to a point where one 8kW Radian will meet all the household needs, but 
it is more likely that 2 Radians will be needed.

Is it possible/practical to parallel a Radian GS8048 with a GS4048? If so, can 
the GS4048 be upgraded to 8k in the future?

 

I will  reach out to you, off wrench list, for more info on your Radian  GSLC 
cabinet methods.

 

Dave Palumbo

 

From: RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf 
Of William Miller
Sent: Thursday, December 15, 2016 2:18 PM
To: RE-wrenches
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Load Management vs Multiple Inverters and OutBack 
Radian vs Flexware systems

 

Dave:

 

Here are the differences between the Outback Radian and FX inverters that I 
think are pertinent to your situation:

 

1.The Radian has generator support.  Don’t confuse this with generator 
start.  Gen support allows the inverter to sync to and aid the generator in 
providing power to loads.  The new FX inverter is the FXR and I am not sure it 
has this capability.  It is worth checking into.  Avoid an inverter without 
this function.

2.The Radian provides more power per hub-port than does the FX series.  The 
Radian can provide 8 kw per hub port while the FX maxes out at 3.6 kW per port. 
  This may not seem important but it can be.  If you have a Flexnet DC unit it 
occupies on port, therefore you are limited to 32 Kw (3.6 * 9 ports).  With 
Radian, you are allowed up to 72 Kw (8*9 ports).  And if you reach these 
maximums, there are no ports for charge controllers.  I wish Outback would put 
some resources into eliminating this bottleneck (and allow more than one Mate, 
please).

3.I am not fond of the X240 transformer system.  I have seen too many 
instances of tripped breakers.  The power save scheme is awkward when using FX 
inverters, and if you ask three Outback employees about setting this function 
you will get three answers.

4.Outback supposedly has a white paper on stacking more than two Radians, 
but I can’t seem to find it.  Lones, do you have access to this?

5.You are correct in looking at battery charging ratings.  With a big 
system comes big batteries.  You want to be able to charge them in an 
appropriate length of time.

 

I always hesitate to try and comingle equipment from too many different 
manufacturers.  Battery inverter systems are finicky enough as they are.  This 
may preclude load management.  Consider how you would implement this:  it would 
mean contactors, maybe an additional sub-panel, wiring, etc.  Sounds 
problematic to me.

 

Wiring a Radian system is different than wiring a Flexware system.  I find the 
Radian easier now that I have learned a few tricks:

 

1.Remove all AC breakers from the GSLC cabinets.  Instead use two outboard 
load centers: one for generator fed and one for inverter fed.  To provide 
bypass, run the generator power to the inverter fed panel and provide breaker 
interlocks.  For smaller systems use a factory provided interlock.  For larger 
systems, we custom build breaker interlocks.  Contact me off-line for more 
information.

2.Remove all of the PV breakers from the GSLC.  You can use a Midnite DIN 
rail or panel mount breaker cabinet or even an Outback combiner to mount din 
rail mount your PV and charge controller breakers.

 

I hope this helps.

 

William Miller

 

 

Gradient Cap_mini
Lic 773985
millersolar.com  
805-438-5600

 

 

 

On Dec 15, 2016, at 10:08 AM, Dave Palumbo  wrote:

 

Wrenchers,

 

I am involved in designing an off grid system that will need  multiple 
inverters (probably OutBack). My experience over the years has been limited to 
no more than 8kW's of inverter on a big system (for me). The load profile is 
not completed yet, but it is looking like this may require more power if all of 
the loads were to be on/surge at the same time. The client wants things to run 
as seamlessly as practical and has the means to pay for a nice system. 

· Are automatic load management devices worth looking into? I have no 
experience with them except for one of my off griders (early adopter type) had 
one put in about 15 years ago on his system and I think it worked OK but it 
seemed like a lot of money and work to install and it takes up some space. More 
technical stuff to deal with. 

· How fool proof is it and is it worth messing with? Vs. adding more 
inverter wattage?

 

· With OutBack these days what are the Pros and Cons comparing a Radian 
system vs a Flexware 1000 system? 

· Why does the Radian line have different ratings per unit of a 48VDC 
inverter? Isn't the Radian two vented 48V inverters in a big box? 

· The regular OB VFXR3648's  have lower continuous power and surge 
ratings and lower battery charging amps when compared to a Radian. Two OB 
VFR3648's @ 7,200VA continuous vs Radian @ 8,000VA; 10.

Re: [RE-wrenches] SMA 40 series DC disconnect

[billbrooks7]

William,

 

I was also surprised to see SMA go down this road (ala Fronius IG). I can’t 
speak to why they did this. I’m installing my first 40 series right now.

 

I have never supported covering the array as a viable method of removing 
voltage. It is far safer to unplug the strings on the roof if you want to 
remove voltage. Not sure why they did not suggest unplugging instead of 
tarping. 

 

Either way, many jurisdictions will require an external dc disconnect with this 
new configuration—what a waste. If SMA were smart, they would put connectors in 
their dc connection box to be compliant with the 2017 NEC which would solve 
their problem. It means a design change. They must be expecting this product to 
be connected to a rapid shutdown switch box—that’s the only thing that makes 
sense.

 

Bill.

 

 

From: RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf 
Of William Miller
Sent: Wednesday, December 14, 2016 10:45 AM
To: RE-wrenches 
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] SMA 40 series DC disconnect

 

Bill:

 

That is exactly my point.  Carports and ground-mounts do not need RS, but any 
system requires safe means to disconnect DC.  So how do you accomplish this 
with the 40 series?

 

Sure, using the DC connector is one way to disconnect the DC input to the 40 
series electronics.  However, the service manual cautions against this.  Below 
is the verbatim text from the manual.  

 

>From SMA Document SB30-77-1SP-US-40-AT-PU-SG-xx-11 Service Manual:

 

• If an external DC disconnecting switch is available, open the external DC 
disconnecting

switch.

• If there is no external DC disconnecting switch, cover the PV modules with 
opaque

material (e.g. foil).

• Ensure that there is no voltage on the DC conductors of the PV array.

• Wait five minutes before working on the inverter.

• Leave the DC-in connecting terminal plate plugged into the Connection Unit 
and only

touch it on the black enclosure.

 

I was told that the term ‘foil’ is a poor translation from German, and likely 
means a tarp.  In any event, this verbiage is quite unfortunate as it precludes 
using the connector as a disconnect.  I wonder if there is some criteria on 
what kind of connectors can be used as a disconnecting means and which cannot.  
I am sure it has something to do with ‘touch-safe’ requirements.  The DC 
connector in the 40 series may not meet this criteria.  The external leads 
could possibly come free of the connector body as they are just 
insert-connected.  I would be very reticent to send out a technician to work on 
one of these without some serious consideration of the implications.

 

SMA seems like they are interested in this conundrum and I am withholding 
judgement pending receiving a response from them.  I just thought it very 
curious that they moved the location of the disconnect in the DC power flow 
scheme.   Seems to me like a fundamental change that flew under the radar.  See 
below for a rendering of the change in DC power flow:

 

Formerly:  PV>Integrated Disconnect-->chassis separation

 

40 Series:  PV -->chassis separation>Integrated Disconnect

 

 

William

 

PS:  I remember wasting an entire afternoon in a conference room in San Diego 
arguing with Fronius about the same concept.  They too insisted that to service 
the IG series inverter one had to just tarp the modules.  Let us please put 
that myth to rest once and for all:  Tarping modules is not viable.

 

Wm

 

 


Lic 773985
millersolar.com  
805-438-5600

 

From: RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org 
 ] On Behalf Of 
billbroo...@sbcglobal.net  
Sent: Wednesday, December 14, 2016 7:40 AM
To: 'RE-wrenches' mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> >
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] SMA $0 series DC disconnect

 

William,

 

I’m not sure you meant to imply this, but carports and ground mounts do not 
need any RS equipment unless you were to bring the dc conductors into a 
building, which would not be smart.

 

The 2017 NEC allows connectors to be used as isolation devices for equipment as 
long as the circuit current is below 30 amps, which it always is on individual 
strings. I realize California will not be on the 2017 for 3 years, but it will 
make installations cheaper, not more expensive. 

 

Electronics are destined to become a bigger part of PV arrays in the future—and 
not just because of rapid shutdown requirements. It just makes sense in 
building applications for many reasons. The keys will be cost and reliability.

 

Bill.

 

From: RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf 
Of William Miller
Sent: Tuesday, December 13, 2016 5:39 PM
To: RE-wrenches mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> >
Subject: [RE-wrenches] SMA $0 series DC disconnect

 

Friends:

 

I am taking a poll to see if any of you have no

Re: [RE-wrenches] SB -40 Wi-Fi

[William Miller]

Howie:



I have not tried the Wi-Fi capabilities, so I cannot comment on that
aspect.  What is relevant, however, is the news I received from a reliable
source that the 40 series inverter will be the last residential inverter
manufactured by SMA that will have an on-board display.  As evidence of
this, look in the manual for a 40 series or even a 22 series inverter-
there is no description at all of the display functions.  Odd and
disappointing.



SMA should have a representative on this list.  It may still be Steve
Jefferson, who is a stand-up guy. SMA, what say you about these
communications and display questions?



Wrenches, if you think having an on-board display is important, voice your
opinion.  If the Wi-Fi is problematic, this is not a good direction.  A lot
of my clients are elderly and they are not as adept at computer or device
based operations. A display is essential in my opinion.  SMA, please don’t
kill the display.



William Miller





[image: Gradient Cap_mini]
Lic 773985
millersolar.com 
805-438-5600



*From:* RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] *On
Behalf Of *Howie Michaelson
*Sent:* Thursday, December 15, 2016 6:16 AM
*To:* RE-wrenches 
*Subject:* [RE-wrenches] SB -40 Wifi



I am looking for comments on the viability of the Wi-Fi option of the new
SB -40 inverters. I noticed some concern here about the poor performance of
this option and am trying to decide whether to use it in the case of a long
distance between the inverters and the router.

I can place a repeater between the inverters and as well as purchase the
external antenna option from SMA for the inverters, but would like to have
an idea ahead of buying and installing the 2 antennas if this is likely to
work. I do have the option of running an Ethernet cable, but it is a long
(500' +) and difficult pull. Any comments or suggestions would be
appreciated.

Thanks,

Howie
Howie Michaelson
NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installer™

Sun Catcher
Renewable Energy Systems Sales and Service
VT Solar Electric Incentive Partner
802-272-0004
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Load Management vs Multiple Inverters and OutBack Radian vs Flexware systems

[William Miller]

Dave:



Here are the differences between the Outback Radian and FX inverters that I
think are pertinent to your situation:



1.The Radian has generator support.  Don’t confuse this with generator
start.  Gen support allows the inverter to sync to and aid the generator in
providing power to loads.  The new FX inverter is the FXR and I am not sure
it has this capability.  It is worth checking into.  Avoid an inverter
without this function.

2.The Radian provides more power per hub-port than does the FX series.
The Radian can provide 8 kw per hub port while the FX maxes out at 3.6 kW
per port.   This may not seem important but it can be.  If you have a
Flexnet DC unit it occupies on port, therefore you are limited to 32 Kw
(3.6 * 9 ports).  With Radian, you are allowed up to 72 Kw (8*9 ports).
And if you reach these maximums, there are no ports for charge
controllers.  I wish Outback would put some resources into eliminating this
bottleneck (and allow more than one Mate, please).

3.I am not fond of the X240 transformer system.  I have seen too many
instances of tripped breakers.  The power save scheme is awkward when using
FX inverters, and if you ask three Outback employees about setting this
function you will get three answers.

4.Outback supposedly has a white paper on stacking more than two
Radians, but I can’t seem to find it.  Lones, do you have access to this?

5.You are correct in looking at battery charging ratings.  With a big
system comes big batteries.  You want to be able to charge them in an
appropriate length of time.



I always hesitate to try and comingle equipment from too many different
manufacturers.  Battery inverter systems are finicky enough as they are.
This may preclude load management.  Consider how you would implement this:
it would mean contactors, maybe an additional sub-panel, wiring, etc.
Sounds problematic to me.



Wiring a Radian system is different than wiring a Flexware system.  I find
the Radian easier now that I have learned a few tricks:



1.Remove all AC breakers from the GSLC cabinets.  Instead use two
outboard load centers: one for generator fed and one for inverter fed.  To
provide bypass, run the generator power to the inverter fed panel and
provide breaker interlocks.  For smaller systems use a factory provided
interlock.  For larger systems, we custom build breaker interlocks.
Contact me off-line for more information.

2.Remove all of the PV breakers from the GSLC.  You can use a Midnite
DIN rail or panel mount breaker cabinet or even an Outback combiner to
mount din rail mount your PV and charge controller breakers.



I hope this helps.



William Miller





[image: Gradient Cap_mini]
Lic 773985
millersolar.com 
805-438-5600







On Dec 15, 2016, at 10:08 AM, Dave Palumbo  wrote:



Wrenchers,



I am involved in designing an off grid system that will need  multiple
inverters (probably OutBack). My experience over the years has been limited
to no more than 8kW's of inverter on a big system (for me). The load
profile is not completed yet, but it is looking like this may require more
power if all of the loads were to be on/surge at the same time. The client
wants things to run as seamlessly as practical and has the means to pay for
a nice system.

· Are automatic load management devices worth looking into? I have
no experience with them except for one of my off griders (early adopter
type) had one put in about 15 years ago on his system and I think it worked
OK but it seemed like a lot of money and work to install and it takes up
some space. More technical stuff to deal with.

· How fool proof is it and is it worth messing with? Vs. adding
more inverter wattage?



· With OutBack these days what are the Pros and Cons comparing a
Radian system vs a Flexware 1000 system?

· Why does the Radian line have different ratings per unit of a
48VDC inverter? Isn't the Radian two vented 48V inverters in a big box?

· The regular OB VFXR3648's  have lower continuous power and surge
ratings and lower battery charging amps when compared to a Radian. Two OB
VFR3648's @ 7,200VA continuous vs Radian @ 8,000VA; 10.8kVA surge on the 2
VFX's together vs 12kVA on the Radian; also 90ADC vs 115ADC battery
charging respectively.



Thanks for your time,

Dave



David Palumbo

Independent Power LLC

462 Solar Way Drive

Hyde Park, VT 05655

802-371-8678 cell

802-888-4917 home
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Retrofit variable speed drive to old well pump? // Franklin products

[William Miller]

Windy:

We have used a quad (four wheeled off-road utility vehicle) to pull pumps. We 
set up an empty wire spool as a roller right above the well head and attach the 
pull rope to the quad. Extra hands manage the poly pipe. Less muscle strain 
this way. 

William Miller

> On Dec 15, 2016, at 9:05 AM, Windy Dankoff  wrote:
> 
> Dan,
> 
> Something else I want to add - since your customer has difficult access for a 
> service truck, consider if it’s feasible to pull and replace the pump by 
> hand. I had a 1/2 HP AC pump on almost 200 feet of 1” PVC drop pipe. It took 
> all strong hands on deck (two decks, if you count down in the pit and above, 
> ground level). With 4 people, we pulled it by hand, grunting for sure. PVC 
> schedule 80 can be flexed enough to pull it as one long tube.
> 
> Putting new pump in is much easier - air in pipe is lighter than water.
> 
> I don’ know how deep yours is set, but if it’s a 2-wire, it can’t be much 
> deeper than that.
> 
> Windy
> 
>> I stand corrected on my advice. This Franklin document describes a MonoDrive 
>> 2W model. 2W stands for 2-wire pump! I didn’t know it existed. 
>> 
>> http://franklinwater.com/media/116400/225417101_m1560_sd_manual_05-13_web.pdf
>> 
>> Nevertheless, I would expect inferior results and would not use it to 
>> retrofit an old 2-wire pump if it may be on its last legs. However, it IS 
>> what you are asking for, the alternative to replacing the pump! It’s up to 
>> you to determine if it’s the BEST option in the short and long run.
>> 
>> I would run this by a very knowlegable Franklin distributor, as well as your 
>> local driller.
>> 
>> Keep Shining // Windy
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Load Management vs Multiple Inverters and OutBack Radian vs Flexware systems

[Dave Palumbo]

Wrenchers,

 

I am involved in designing an off grid system that will need  multiple
inverters (probably OutBack). My experience over the years has been limited
to no more than 8kW's of inverter on a big system (for me). The load profile
is not completed yet, but it is looking like this may require more power if
all of the loads were to be on/surge at the same time. The client wants
things to run as seamlessly as practical and has the means to pay for a nice
system. 

. Are automatic load management devices worth looking into? I have
no experience with them except for one of my off griders (early adopter
type) had one put in about 15 years ago on his system and I think it worked
OK but it seemed like a lot of money and work to install and it takes up
some space. More technical stuff to deal with. 

. How fool proof is it and is it worth messing with? Vs. adding more
inverter wattage?

 

. With OutBack these days what are the Pros and Cons comparing a
Radian system vs a Flexware 1000 system? 

. Why does the Radian line have different ratings per unit of a
48VDC inverter? Isn't the Radian two vented 48V inverters in a big box? 

. The regular OB VFXR3648's  have lower continuous power and surge
ratings and lower battery charging amps when compared to a Radian. Two OB
VFR3648's @ 7,200VA continuous vs Radian @ 8,000VA; 10.8kVA surge on the 2
VFX's together vs 12kVA on the Radian; also 90ADC vs 115ADC battery charging
respectively. 

 

Thanks for your time,

Dave

 

David Palumbo 

Independent Power LLC

462 Solar Way Drive

Hyde Park, VT 05655

802-371-8678 cell

802-888-4917 home

 

 

 

 

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Re: [RE-wrenches] Retrofit variable speed drive to old well pump? // Franklin products

[Windy Dankoff]

Dan,

Something else I want to add - since your customer has difficult access for a 
service truck, consider if it’s feasible to pull and replace the pump by hand. 
I had a 1/2 HP AC pump on almost 200 feet of 1” PVC drop pipe. It took all 
strong hands on deck (two decks, if you count down in the pit and above, ground 
level). With 4 people, we pulled it by hand, grunting for sure. PVC schedule 80 
can be flexed enough to pull it as one long tube.

Putting new pump in is much easier - air in pipe is lighter than water.

I don’ know how deep yours is set, but if it’s a 2-wire, it can’t be much 
deeper than that.

Windy

> I stand corrected on my advice. This Franklin document describes a MonoDrive 
> 2W model. 2W stands for 2-wire pump! I didn’t know it existed. 
> 
> http://franklinwater.com/media/116400/225417101_m1560_sd_manual_05-13_web.pdf
> 
> Nevertheless, I would expect inferior results and would not use it to 
> retrofit an old 2-wire pump if it may be on its last legs. However, it IS 
> what you are asking for, the alternative to replacing the pump! It’s up to 
> you to determine if it’s the BEST option in the short and long run.
> 
> I would run this by a very knowlegable Franklin distributor, as well as your 
> local driller.
> 
> Keep Shining // Windy
> 
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[RE-wrenches] SB -40 Wifi

[Howie Michaelson]

I am looking for comments on the viability of the Wi-Fi option of the new
SB -40 inverters. I noticed some concern here about the poor performance of
this option and am trying to decide whether to use it in the case of a long
distance between the inverters and the router.
I can place a repeater between the inverters and as well as purchase the
external antenna option from SMA for the inverters, but would like to have
an idea ahead of buying and installing the 2 antennas if this is likely to
work. I do have the option of running an Ethernet cable, but it is a long
(500' +) and difficult pull. Any comments or suggestions would be
appreciated.

Thanks,
Howie
Howie Michaelson
NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installer™

Sun Catcher
Renewable Energy Systems Sales and Service
VT Solar Electric Incentive Partner
802-272-0004
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Re: [RE-wrenches] sma -40 monitoring and tech support

[Dave Tedeyan]

I have spent hours on the phone with tech support about this issue.
I was a little fuzzy on the reason for all the communications issues,
but it might have been something about there being a windows system
update that was causing it. They have been working on new firmware
for the -40's and the -22's to fix it.

On the -40's some inverters screen will lock up entirely needing a trip
out to site to install new firmware. Some others will just not update the
graphs correctly. On the -22's, I am seeing many sites where the inverter
(or one of the inverters on site) will not update the graphs at all, even
though on the main page it will show the current power.

I was told that they would push the new beta firmware (2.02.12 for the
-40's and 2.65.03 for the -22's) onto the sites that I was having issues
with. This was about a month ago, and it still has not happened... They
also said that the new -40 firmware was going to be pushed globally, but
that still has not happened either.

At least SMA knows of the issue and it is on their end, not the customers
end. Unfortunately that does not look particularly good for us installers,
but there is not a whole lot you can do about it, other than visit each
site
and manually update the firmware. I have not yet done this, so I cannot
verify whether it is actually fixing the problem or not.

It would be nice if SMA (and other manufacturers) would publish a list of
known issues like this somewhere on their website so that we can check
it before we all waste hours on the phone with tech support and on site
tracking down issues that simply cannot be fixed by us.

Cheers,
Dave


*--*


*Dave Tedeyan*
*Project Engineer*

*Taitem Engineering, PC*
109 S. Albany Street, Ithaca, NY 14850
Voice: (607) 277-1118 x121
www.taitem.com

On Wed, Dec 14, 2016 at 3:23 PM, Peter Giroux 
wrote:

> Kirpal
>
>   So glad to see you are not sugar coating it. New tech always means new
> challenges. There is always Fr-.
>
> - Original Message -
> *From:* Kirpal Khalsa 
> *To:* RE-wrenches 
> *Sent:* Wednesday, December 14, 2016 3:17 PM
> *Subject:* [RE-wrenches] sma -40 monitoring and tech support
>
> Friends!
> We have been installing  the SMA-40 inverters lately. We like the physical
> layout of the inverters.  They have built in wifi capabilities. On paper
> this sounds good.  In practice this part of the inverters have been working
> like crap.  We have multiple sites that are experiencing on going
> connectivity issues even with excellent wifi signals.
> We have upgraded to the latest firmware 3 times in the last 3 weeks for
> inverters manufactured in late October.  Clearly they see they have issues,
> due to the frequency of firmware updates.  Even the latest firmware is
> proving useless.  Anyone else having trouble with these inverters?  We feel
> like we are their experimentation lab and doing their R&D on our dime.
> Their tech support is minimum an hour wait on hold.  We have spent more
> time trying to resolve the communications issues than the actual
> installation of the whole solar system took, not just the inverters.  In
> fact I am typing this email as I am on hold.
> Any one else having issues with this part of the inverters?  Advice on how
> to deal with SMA or resolve the issues with out resorting to their useless
> tech support?
> Thanks!
>
> Sunny Regards,
> Kirpal Khalsa
> Oregon LRT#25
> NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional
> Oregon Solarworks LLC
> www.oregonsolarworks.com
> 541-299-0402 <(541)%20299-0402>
>
> --
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