Re: [RE-wrenches] Racks.

2017-01-11 Thread penobscotsolar
He changed the name to RC Fab about a year ago, but when I last talked
with him they were changing the name again. Check RC Fab in Albuquerque,
NM



> I can't find the link to Jeff randles new rack company?
>
> Can someone help me out
>
> Thx
> Jay
> Peltz power.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>> On Jan 10, 2017, at 8:31 PM, Ray Walters  wrote:
>>
>> Hi William;
>>
>> Your link had a glitch,  I think this should be it?
>> http://www.millersolar.com/MillerSolar/case_studies/Wind_damage/_wind_damage.html
>>
>> We have DP&W's high wind option which bumped the pole size from 4" to 6"
>> along with heavier hardware throughout.  I haven't been to the site yet,
>> but the techs were reporting just the module failed and the rack is
>> still good.  I'm going up next week and I'll try to figure this out.
>> This site also has a funnel effect as you mentioned.  Higher ridges to
>> the North and South, and this smaller peak between with our rack almost
>> right at the top.
>> Roof mounts actually do seem to be much better; the wind doesn't get
>> behind it, and if the array is set back from the edge,  the side edge of
>> the array isn't getting pummeled.
>> Our failure occurred with an angled wind, not perpendicular.   Your rack
>> failures look also to have had uneven loading: the way it twisted that
>> top rail off. I almost wonder if these racks aren't hitting some
>> resonance that's causing the rack to twist and torque back and forth
>> repeatedly.  You can grab the corner of the array and "pluck" it, then
>> watch it bounce back and forth: that's the simple way to determine its
>> harmonic resonance.
>>
>> R.Ray Walters
>> CTO, Solarray, Inc
>> Nabcep Certified PV Installer,
>> Licensed Master Electrician
>> Solar Design Engineer
>> 303 505-8760
>>
>>> On 1/10/2017 6:26 PM, William Miller wrote:
>>> Ray:
>>>
>>> I can't say I have a solution to your problem, but I can share some
>>> photos
>>> of two similar failures in case you can glean any information from
>>> them.
>>> See:
>>> http://www.millersolar.com/MillerSolar/case_studies/Wind_damage/_wind_dama
>>> ge.html
>>>
>>> The first failure is a Zomeworks.  On the same exact spot we tried a
>>> DPW
>>> TOP.  Neither could withstand a funnel effect provided by the
>>> topography.
>>>
>>> At the same location we installed a roof mount as well that has never
>>> failed (to my knowledge, we don't service that customer anymore).
>>>
>>> I think if you have terrain that is tilted in the correct direction a
>>> mount that hugs the ground is best.  That is a lay opinion, however.
>>>
>>> William
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Lic 773985
>>> millersolar.com
>>> 805-438-5600
>>>
>>> -Original Message-
>>> From: RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On
>>> Behalf Of Ray Walters
>>> Sent: Tuesday, January 10, 2017 2:31 PM
>>> To: RE-wrenches 
>>> Subject: [RE-wrenches] Solar World Wind Damage
>>>
>>> Greetings All;
>>>
>>> I just had the dreaded call from one of my higher profile commercial
>>> clients: a remote radio repeater station had modules ripped off the
>>> frame
>>> by high winds.
>>> Two  SW285s were damaged.  The wind was strong enough to rip right
>>> through
>>> the aluminum side rails.  We had used the proper stainless 1/4"
>>> bolt hardware with washers on the inside, etc.  All the hardware was
>>> still
>>> tight, it just tore the aluminum past the washers.  This is not a top
>>> down
>>> clamp system, but uses bolts through the mounting holes on the back of
>>> the
>>> module.  This was all on a DP&W rack with high wind option.
>>> In 20 years in business, I've never seen that happen.  Is there a
>>> contact
>>> at Solar World?  I'm not getting through on the tech support line I
>>> have.
>>> First, I need to know what the wind rating is on the modules blowing
>>> from
>>> the back side, and Second, a suggested fix for the remaining modules.
>>> One module was completely ripped from the frame and thrown 30 yds
>>> (total
>>> destruction), a 2nd one has cracks in the Aluminum, but has not let go
>>> yet.  I was thinking of adding some angle aluminum on the inside to
>>> beef
>>> it up.  IMHO, the frames are pretty thin aluminum compared to older
>>> modules.  I'll share some pics when available.
>>>
>>> As always thanks in advance for your comments,
>>>
>>> --
>>> R.Ray Walters
>>> CTO, Solarray, Inc
>>> Nabcep Certified PV Installer,
>>> Licensed Master Electrician
>>> Solar Design Engineer
>>> 303 505-8760
>>>
>>> ___
>>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance
>>>
>>> List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org
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>>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Racks. Jeff Randalls info

2017-01-11 Thread penobscotsolar
 Jeff Randall

 RC FAB Corporation

 2615 Princeton Dr NE

 Albuquerque, NM 87107

 505-503-6459

 Cell: 505-288-5552






> He changed the name to RC Fab about a year ago, but when I last talked
> with him they were changing the name again. Check RC Fab in Albuquerque,
> NM
>
>
>
>> I can't find the link to Jeff randles new rack company?
>>
>> Can someone help me out
>>
>> Thx
>> Jay
>> Peltz power.
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>>> On Jan 10, 2017, at 8:31 PM, Ray Walters  wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi William;
>>>
>>> Your link had a glitch,  I think this should be it?
>>> http://www.millersolar.com/MillerSolar/case_studies/Wind_damage/_wind_damage.html
>>>
>>> We have DP&W's high wind option which bumped the pole size from 4" to
>>> 6"
>>> along with heavier hardware throughout.  I haven't been to the site
>>> yet,
>>> but the techs were reporting just the module failed and the rack is
>>> still good.  I'm going up next week and I'll try to figure this out.
>>> This site also has a funnel effect as you mentioned.  Higher ridges to
>>> the North and South, and this smaller peak between with our rack almost
>>> right at the top.
>>> Roof mounts actually do seem to be much better; the wind doesn't get
>>> behind it, and if the array is set back from the edge,  the side edge
>>> of
>>> the array isn't getting pummeled.
>>> Our failure occurred with an angled wind, not perpendicular.   Your
>>> rack
>>> failures look also to have had uneven loading: the way it twisted that
>>> top rail off. I almost wonder if these racks aren't hitting some
>>> resonance that's causing the rack to twist and torque back and forth
>>> repeatedly.  You can grab the corner of the array and "pluck" it, then
>>> watch it bounce back and forth: that's the simple way to determine its
>>> harmonic resonance.
>>>
>>> R.Ray Walters
>>> CTO, Solarray, Inc
>>> Nabcep Certified PV Installer,
>>> Licensed Master Electrician
>>> Solar Design Engineer
>>> 303 505-8760
>>>
 On 1/10/2017 6:26 PM, William Miller wrote:
 Ray:

 I can't say I have a solution to your problem, but I can share some
 photos
 of two similar failures in case you can glean any information from
 them.
 See:
 http://www.millersolar.com/MillerSolar/case_studies/Wind_damage/_wind_dama
 ge.html

 The first failure is a Zomeworks.  On the same exact spot we tried a
 DPW
 TOP.  Neither could withstand a funnel effect provided by the
 topography.

 At the same location we installed a roof mount as well that has never
 failed (to my knowledge, we don't service that customer anymore).

 I think if you have terrain that is tilted in the correct direction a
 mount that hugs the ground is best.  That is a lay opinion, however.

 William



 Lic 773985
 millersolar.com
 805-438-5600

 -Original Message-
 From: RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org]
 On
 Behalf Of Ray Walters
 Sent: Tuesday, January 10, 2017 2:31 PM
 To: RE-wrenches 
 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Solar World Wind Damage

 Greetings All;

 I just had the dreaded call from one of my higher profile commercial
 clients: a remote radio repeater station had modules ripped off the
 frame
 by high winds.
 Two  SW285s were damaged.  The wind was strong enough to rip right
 through
 the aluminum side rails.  We had used the proper stainless 1/4"
 bolt hardware with washers on the inside, etc.  All the hardware was
 still
 tight, it just tore the aluminum past the washers.  This is not a top
 down
 clamp system, but uses bolts through the mounting holes on the back of
 the
 module.  This was all on a DP&W rack with high wind option.
 In 20 years in business, I've never seen that happen.  Is there a
 contact
 at Solar World?  I'm not getting through on the tech support line I
 have.
 First, I need to know what the wind rating is on the modules blowing
 from
 the back side, and Second, a suggested fix for the remaining modules.
 One module was completely ripped from the frame and thrown 30 yds
 (total
 destruction), a 2nd one has cracks in the Aluminum, but has not let go
 yet.  I was thinking of adding some angle aluminum on the inside to
 beef
 it up.  IMHO, the frames are pretty thin aluminum compared to older
 modules.  I'll share some pics when available.

 As always thanks in advance for your comments,

 --
 R.Ray Walters
 CTO, Solarray, Inc
 Nabcep Certified PV Installer,
 Licensed Master Electrician
 Solar Design Engineer
 303 505-8760

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Re: [RE-wrenches] Racks.

2017-01-11 Thread frenergy

http://www.solarrackworks.com/

All of Jeff's contact info is there

Bill

Feather River Solar Electric
Bill Battagin, Owner
4291 Nelson St.
Taylorsville, CA 95983
530.284.7849
CA Lic 874049
www.frenergy.net
Solar powered since 1982

On 1/10/2017 8:54 PM, Jay wrote:

I can't find the link to Jeff randles new rack company?

Can someone help me out

Thx
Jay
Peltz power.




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Re: [RE-wrenches] Racks, wind

2017-01-11 Thread frenergy
Also, gotta say Jeff is building very high quality TOP racks. We've 
installed 7-8 of them since his "departure" from DPW, now Preformed Line 
Products.  Welds, materials, powder coating are top notch.  Right at 
first, as you can imagine getting started again, there were a couple 
small details that were a little wonky but they seem to have it wired 
now.  Ship times might be a little better too.


William, curious how old some of the wind ravaged racks 
are?  I haven't seen that 2X2" material being used for awhile on a rack 
that size.  I used to have some problems with snow when they were using 
that 2X2" square steel tubing...that was several years ago, like 10?


Bill

Feather River Solar Electric
Bill Battagin, Owner
4291 Nelson St.
Taylorsville, CA 95983
530.284.7849
CA Lic 874049
www.frenergy.net


On 1/10/2017 8:54 PM, Jay wrote:

I can't find the link to Jeff randles new rack company?

Can someone help me out

Thx
Jay
Peltz power.

Sent from my iPhone


On Jan 10, 2017, at 8:31 PM, Ray Walters  wrote:

Hi William;

Your link had a glitch,  I think this should be it?
http://www.millersolar.com/MillerSolar/case_studies/Wind_damage/_wind_damage.html

We have DP&W's high wind option which bumped the pole size from 4" to 6" along 
with heavier hardware throughout.  I haven't been to the site yet, but the techs were 
reporting just the module failed and the rack is still good.  I'm going up next week and I'll 
try to figure this out.  This site also has a funnel effect as you mentioned.  Higher ridges 
to the North and South, and this smaller peak between with our rack almost right at the top.
Roof mounts actually do seem to be much better; the wind doesn't get behind it, 
and if the array is set back from the edge,  the side edge of the array isn't 
getting pummeled.
Our failure occurred with an angled wind, not perpendicular.   Your rack failures look 
also to have had uneven loading: the way it twisted that top rail off. I almost wonder if 
these racks aren't hitting some resonance that's causing the rack to twist and torque 
back and forth repeatedly.  You can grab the corner of the array and "pluck" 
it, then watch it bounce back and forth: that's the simple way to determine its harmonic 
resonance.

R.Ray Walters
CTO, Solarray, Inc
Nabcep Certified PV Installer,
Licensed Master Electrician
Solar Design Engineer
303 505-8760


On 1/10/2017 6:26 PM, William Miller wrote:
Ray:

I can't say I have a solution to your problem, but I can share some photos
of two similar failures in case you can glean any information from them.
See:
http://www.millersolar.com/MillerSolar/case_studies/Wind_damage/_wind_dama
ge.html

The first failure is a Zomeworks.  On the same exact spot we tried a DPW
TOP.  Neither could withstand a funnel effect provided by the topography.

At the same location we installed a roof mount as well that has never
failed (to my knowledge, we don't service that customer anymore).

I think if you have terrain that is tilted in the correct direction a
mount that hugs the ground is best.  That is a lay opinion, however.

William



Lic 773985
millersolar.com
805-438-5600



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Re: [RE-wrenches] Solar World Wind Damage

2017-01-11 Thread frenergy

William,

Looking closely at your picture of the rack failure with 
the tower in the background, it looks like there is some 
discoloration/staining/rust? at the main spar center bolt.  I went back 
to some of my older installs to discover this happening and on a couple 
of them was able to rock the rack E-W more than I should have been able 
to.  I think this was discussed on the list a ways back, you may be 
aware of it that that center bolt needs to be reefed on to prevent any 
movement.  If the hole in that main spar was compromised and the rack 
was able to shift back and forth...not sure if that would contribute to 
failure of the kind you experienced.


Bill

Feather River Solar Electric
Bill Battagin, Owner
4291 Nelson St.
Taylorsville, CA 95983
530.284.7849
CA Lic 874049
www.frenergy.net

On 1/10/2017 5:26 PM, William Miller wrote:

Ray:

I can't say I have a solution to your problem, but I can share some photos
of two similar failures in case you can glean any information from them.
See:
http://www.millersolar.com/MillerSolar/case_studies/Wind_damage/_wind_dama
ge.html

The first failure is a Zomeworks.  On the same exact spot we tried a DPW
TOP.  Neither could withstand a funnel effect provided by the topography.

At the same location we installed a roof mount as well that has never
failed (to my knowledge, we don't service that customer anymore).

I think if you have terrain that is tilted in the correct direction a
mount that hugs the ground is best.  That is a lay opinion, however.

William



Lic 773985
millersolar.com
805-438-5600

-Original Message-
From: RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On
Behalf Of Ray Walters
Sent: Tuesday, January 10, 2017 2:31 PM
To: RE-wrenches 
Subject: [RE-wrenches] Solar World Wind Damage

Greetings All;

I just had the dreaded call from one of my higher profile commercial
clients: a remote radio repeater station had modules ripped off the frame
by high winds.
Two  SW285s were damaged.  The wind was strong enough to rip right through
the aluminum side rails.  We had used the proper stainless 1/4"
bolt hardware with washers on the inside, etc.  All the hardware was still
tight, it just tore the aluminum past the washers.  This is not a top down
clamp system, but uses bolts through the mounting holes on the back of the
module.  This was all on a DP&W rack with high wind option.
In 20 years in business, I've never seen that happen.  Is there a contact
at Solar World?  I'm not getting through on the tech support line I have.
First, I need to know what the wind rating is on the modules blowing from
the back side, and Second, a suggested fix for the remaining modules.
One module was completely ripped from the frame and thrown 30 yds (total
destruction), a 2nd one has cracks in the Aluminum, but has not let go
yet.  I was thinking of adding some angle aluminum on the inside to beef
it up.  IMHO, the frames are pretty thin aluminum compared to older
modules.  I'll share some pics when available.

As always thanks in advance for your comments,

--
R.Ray Walters
CTO, Solarray, Inc
Nabcep Certified PV Installer,
Licensed Master Electrician
Solar Design Engineer
303 505-8760



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Re: [RE-wrenches] Racks.

2017-01-11 Thread Carl Hansen
Hi Jay,   here is the website for Solarrackworks, Jeff Randall's new 
business.


  http://solarrackworks.com/


On 1/10/2017 9:54 PM, Jay wrote:

I can't find the link to Jeff randles new rack company?

Can someone help me out

Thx
Jay
Peltz power.

Sent from my iPhone


On Jan 10, 2017, at 8:31 PM, Ray Walters  wrote:

Hi William;

Your link had a glitch,  I think this should be it?
http://www.millersolar.com/MillerSolar/case_studies/Wind_damage/_wind_damage.html

We have DP&W's high wind option which bumped the pole size from 4" to 6" along 
with heavier hardware throughout.  I haven't been to the site yet, but the techs were 
reporting just the module failed and the rack is still good.  I'm going up next week and I'll 
try to figure this out.  This site also has a funnel effect as you mentioned.  Higher ridges 
to the North and South, and this smaller peak between with our rack almost right at the top.
Roof mounts actually do seem to be much better; the wind doesn't get behind it, 
and if the array is set back from the edge,  the side edge of the array isn't 
getting pummeled.
Our failure occurred with an angled wind, not perpendicular.   Your rack failures look 
also to have had uneven loading: the way it twisted that top rail off. I almost wonder if 
these racks aren't hitting some resonance that's causing the rack to twist and torque 
back and forth repeatedly.  You can grab the corner of the array and "pluck" 
it, then watch it bounce back and forth: that's the simple way to determine its harmonic 
resonance.

R.Ray Walters
CTO, Solarray, Inc
Nabcep Certified PV Installer,
Licensed Master Electrician
Solar Design Engineer
303 505-8760


On 1/10/2017 6:26 PM, William Miller wrote:
Ray:

I can't say I have a solution to your problem, but I can share some photos
of two similar failures in case you can glean any information from them.
See:
http://www.millersolar.com/MillerSolar/case_studies/Wind_damage/_wind_dama
ge.html

The first failure is a Zomeworks.  On the same exact spot we tried a DPW
TOP.  Neither could withstand a funnel effect provided by the topography.

At the same location we installed a roof mount as well that has never
failed (to my knowledge, we don't service that customer anymore).

I think if you have terrain that is tilted in the correct direction a
mount that hugs the ground is best.  That is a lay opinion, however.

William



Lic 773985
millersolar.com
805-438-5600

-Original Message-
From: RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On
Behalf Of Ray Walters
Sent: Tuesday, January 10, 2017 2:31 PM
To: RE-wrenches 
Subject: [RE-wrenches] Solar World Wind Damage

Greetings All;

I just had the dreaded call from one of my higher profile commercial
clients: a remote radio repeater station had modules ripped off the frame
by high winds.
Two  SW285s were damaged.  The wind was strong enough to rip right through
the aluminum side rails.  We had used the proper stainless 1/4"
bolt hardware with washers on the inside, etc.  All the hardware was still
tight, it just tore the aluminum past the washers.  This is not a top down
clamp system, but uses bolts through the mounting holes on the back of the
module.  This was all on a DP&W rack with high wind option.
In 20 years in business, I've never seen that happen.  Is there a contact
at Solar World?  I'm not getting through on the tech support line I have.
First, I need to know what the wind rating is on the modules blowing from
the back side, and Second, a suggested fix for the remaining modules.
One module was completely ripped from the frame and thrown 30 yds (total
destruction), a 2nd one has cracks in the Aluminum, but has not let go
yet.  I was thinking of adding some angle aluminum on the inside to beef
it up.  IMHO, the frames are pretty thin aluminum compared to older
modules.  I'll share some pics when available.

As always thanks in advance for your comments,

--
R.Ray Walters
CTO, Solarray, Inc
Nabcep Certified PV Installer,
Licensed Master Electrician
Solar Design Engineer
303 505-8760

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Re: [RE-wrenches] Solar World Wind Damage

2017-01-11 Thread Ray Walters

Bill;

Great point,  I have had the exact same trouble not being able to torque 
that center bolt down.  I went back on a DP&W rack that was rocking E-W 
as you described, and brought a big socket (1-1/16"?) and my new 
Milwaukee 1/2" impact driver.  It only took a 1/4 turn more, but what a 
difference: completely tight.  I don't know what the torque spec on that 
bolt is, but its obviously more than I can do with regular wrenches. My 
Pocket Ref shows 257 ft-lbs for a 3/4" bolt.  I'm suspecting that might 
be part of the trouble on the rack that I just reported module failure 
on.  If that rack can start rocking back and forth in high wind, it can 
really cause damage.


R.Ray Walters
CTO, Solarray, Inc
Nabcep Certified PV Installer,
Licensed Master Electrician
Solar Design Engineer
303 505-8760

On 1/11/2017 8:20 AM, frenergy wrote:

William,

Looking closely at your picture of the rack failure with 
the tower in the background, it looks like there is some 
discoloration/staining/rust? at the main spar center bolt.  I went 
back to some of my older installs to discover this happening and on a 
couple of them was able to rock the rack E-W more than I should have 
been able to.  I think this was discussed on the list a ways back, you 
may be aware of it that that center bolt needs to be reefed on to 
prevent any movement.  If the hole in that main spar was compromised 
and the rack was able to shift back and forth...not sure if that would 
contribute to failure of the kind you experienced.


Bill

Feather River Solar Electric
Bill Battagin, Owner
4291 Nelson St.
Taylorsville, CA 95983
530.284.7849
CA Lic 874049
www.frenergy.net

On 1/10/2017 5:26 PM, William Miller wrote:

Ray:

I can't say I have a solution to your problem, but I can share some 
photos

of two similar failures in case you can glean any information from them.
See:
http://www.millersolar.com/MillerSolar/case_studies/Wind_damage/_wind_dama 


ge.html

The first failure is a Zomeworks.  On the same exact spot we tried a DPW
TOP.  Neither could withstand a funnel effect provided by the 
topography.


At the same location we installed a roof mount as well that has never
failed (to my knowledge, we don't service that customer anymore).

I think if you have terrain that is tilted in the correct direction a
mount that hugs the ground is best.  That is a lay opinion, however.

William



Lic 773985
millersolar.com
805-438-5600

-Original Message-
From: RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On
Behalf Of Ray Walters
Sent: Tuesday, January 10, 2017 2:31 PM
To: RE-wrenches 
Subject: [RE-wrenches] Solar World Wind Damage

Greetings All;

I just had the dreaded call from one of my higher profile commercial
clients: a remote radio repeater station had modules ripped off the 
frame

by high winds.
Two  SW285s were damaged.  The wind was strong enough to rip right 
through

the aluminum side rails.  We had used the proper stainless 1/4"
bolt hardware with washers on the inside, etc.  All the hardware was 
still
tight, it just tore the aluminum past the washers.  This is not a top 
down
clamp system, but uses bolts through the mounting holes on the back 
of the

module.  This was all on a DP&W rack with high wind option.
In 20 years in business, I've never seen that happen.  Is there a 
contact
at Solar World?  I'm not getting through on the tech support line I 
have.
First, I need to know what the wind rating is on the modules blowing 
from

the back side, and Second, a suggested fix for the remaining modules.
One module was completely ripped from the frame and thrown 30 yds (total
destruction), a 2nd one has cracks in the Aluminum, but has not let go
yet.  I was thinking of adding some angle aluminum on the inside to beef
it up.  IMHO, the frames are pretty thin aluminum compared to older
modules.  I'll share some pics when available.

As always thanks in advance for your comments,

--
R.Ray Walters
CTO, Solarray, Inc
Nabcep Certified PV Installer,
Licensed Master Electrician
Solar Design Engineer
303 505-8760



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Re: [RE-wrenches] Solar World Wind Damage

2017-01-11 Thread Steven Lawrence
Hi Ray,

Have you checked the torquing on all the other bolts?  My company's had a
few projects where some modules blew off - it's always been due to
over-torquing of the bolts.

Steven Lawrence
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