Re: [RE-wrenches] Rodent/Pigeon/Critter Guards

[Benn Kilburn]

I'm hoping to get some feedback on this topic, as there was none when I posted 
it back in 2015. 

Our region is seeing more and more problems with pigeons nesting under PV 
arrays, mostly on new homes in newly developed areas of the city. 
We have been called to some sites that had particularly bad problems with 
pigeons nesting and pigeon poop covering the roof itself (surprisingly more so 
that the array, unless it is just the rain washing it off the modules easier 
than the roof?) and the eavestroughs filled with poop and overflowing onto the 
ground. 

We really want to nip this issue in the butt since none of us want people 
associating PV systems with pigeon problems. We have heard that some of these 
problem houses have a neighbourhood reputation as "the pigeon house". 

Has anyone tried and had success with any of the solutions "other than" the 
wire mesh and J-hooks??? I'm not confidant that the j-hooks are robust enough 
to last very long. We often have several on each install that the washer simply 
will not hold  tight.  
(See the prior post below for some other suggestions)

Thanks!

Benn
SkyFire Energy

> On Jul 22, 2015, at 2:00 PM, Benn Kilburn  wrote:
> 
> Wrenches,
> I've looked and found a few older threads on the topic but thought it is a 
> good time to refresh our collective info on this as we are getting more 
> requests to install these (and it is also going to be required by code on 
> some systems when our province adopts the 2015 Canadian Electrical Code.  We 
> currently use the 2012 code)
> 
> The issue that we are directly addressing is mostly pigeons hanging 
> out/nesting under rooftop arrays, for now.  I haven't heard of any specific 
> rodent issues in our region.
> 
> I have installed the SnapNRack Edge Screen.  This was on a concrete tile roof 
> so the problem i saw with that was the screen did not contour the tile, 
> leaving a small gap where one tile overlaps the one below it, roughly 25mm 
> (1").  This would not be an issue with keeping out pigeons, but i could 
> imagine that a persistent rodent could squeeze its way thru the small gap.  
> This would not be an issue on the more common asphalt shingle roofs and i 
> would say it is a solid product. 
> 
> The products i'm aware of are:
> SnapNRack
> Kinetic
> Heyco
> spiffysolar
> solatrim.com
> 
> 
> Kinetic, Heyco, and Spiffy each seem to be basically the same; wire mesh and 
> a j-hook that attaches to the module frame.
> 
> SnapNRack is wire mesh but attaches with a more more robust clip that also 
> provides more vertical support to the mesh. (It was suggested that rodents 
> may be able to push under the mesh when its only supported at the top with 
> j-hooks)
> 
> I've seen the wire mesh installed so that it comes down only as far as the 
> roof, so the height of the mesh is essentially the height from the top of the 
> mod frame to the roof surface, but i have also seen it where the mesh is 
> taller than this and the excess (rather than being trimmed to size) comes 
> down and lays out on the roof in an outward direction.  It was suggested that 
> this may be more of a deterrent to rodents that would otherwise push their 
> way under the mesh if it only comes down to meet the roof.
> Comments/Suggestions?
> 
> The last product mentioned, solatrim, is completely different from the rest. 
> It looks much more solid that the rest and uses a peel-and-stick approach 
> using a 3M adhesive tape.  My first and only initial apprehension with this 
> one is the adhesive.  While 3M makes darn good adhesives, it leaves to 
> question how it will hold up against our seasonal ambient temperature swings 
> of above +30degC to below -40degC.  Their spec sheet states it is good btwn 
> -34.4degC to 149degC. So for me to even try it would not be within the mfgr's 
> specs :(
> 
> What products have you used?  What did you like/dislike about them?
> 
> Cheers,
> Benn Kilburn 
> CSA Certified Solar Photovoltaic Systems Electrician, SkyFire Energy Inc
> 6706 – 82 Ave NW | Edmonton, AB | T6B 0E7
> P: 780-474-8992 | F: 888-405-5843 | www.skyfireenergy.com
> 
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Rodent/Pigeon/Critter Guards

[Brian Teitelbaum]

Benn,



You might want to take a look at the SnapNrack Array Edge Screen system



It’s universal since it attaches to the module frames, not the racking.
Looks pretty nice too.



Brian Teitelbaum

AEE Solar



*From:* RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] *On
Behalf Of *Benn Kilburn
*Sent:* Wednesday, June 21, 2017 10:07 AM
*To:* RE-wrenches
*Subject:* Re: [RE-wrenches] Rodent/Pigeon/Critter Guards



I'm hoping to get some feedback on this topic, as there was none when I
posted it back in 2015.



Our region is seeing more and more problems with pigeons nesting under PV
arrays, mostly on new homes in newly developed areas of the city.

We have been called to some sites that had particularly bad problems with
pigeons nesting and pigeon poop covering the roof itself (surprisingly more
so that the array, unless it is just the rain washing it off the modules
easier than the roof?) and the eavestroughs filled with poop and
overflowing onto the ground.



We really want to nip this issue in the butt since none of us want people
associating PV systems with pigeon problems. We have heard that some of
these problem houses have a neighbourhood reputation as "the pigeon house".



Has anyone tried and had success with any of the solutions "other than" the
wire mesh and J-hooks??? I'm not confidant that the j-hooks are robust
enough to last very long. We often have several on each install that the
washer simply will not hold  tight.

(See the prior post below for some other suggestions)



Thanks!

Benn

SkyFire Energy


On Jul 22, 2015, at 2:00 PM, Benn Kilburn  wrote:

Wrenches,

I've looked and found a few older threads on the topic but thought it is a
good time to refresh our collective info on this as we are getting more
requests to install these (and it is also going to be required by code on
some systems when our province adopts the 2015 Canadian Electrical Code.
We currently use the 2012 code)

The issue that we are directly addressing is mostly pigeons hanging
out/nesting under rooftop arrays, for now.  I haven't heard of any specific
rodent issues in our region.

I have installed the SnapNRack Edge Screen.  This was on a concrete tile
roof so the problem i saw with that was the screen did not contour the
tile, leaving a small gap where one tile overlaps the one below it, roughly
25mm (1").  This would not be an issue with keeping out pigeons, but i
could imagine that a persistent rodent could squeeze its way thru the small
gap.  This would not be an issue on the more common asphalt shingle roofs
and i would say it is a solid product.

The products i'm aware of are:

SnapNRack

Kinetic

Heyco

spiffysolar
solatrim.com

Kinetic, Heyco, and Spiffy each seem to be basically the same; wire mesh
and a j-hook that attaches to the module frame.

SnapNRack is wire mesh but attaches with a more more robust clip that also
provides more vertical support to the mesh. (It was suggested that rodents
may be able to push under the mesh when its only supported at the top with
j-hooks)

I've seen the wire mesh installed so that it comes down only as far as the
roof, so the height of the mesh is essentially the height from the top of
the mod frame to the roof surface, but i have also seen it where the mesh
is taller than this and the excess (rather than being trimmed to size)
comes down and lays out on the roof in an outward direction.  It was
suggested that this may be more of a deterrent to rodents that would
otherwise push their way under the mesh if it only comes down to meet the
roof.

Comments/Suggestions?



The last product mentioned, solatrim, is completely different from the
rest. It looks much more solid that the rest and uses a peel-and-stick
approach using a 3M adhesive tape.  My first and only initial apprehension
with this one is the adhesive.  While 3M makes darn good adhesives, it
leaves to question how it will hold up against our seasonal ambient
temperature swings of above +30degC to below -40degC.  Their spec sheet
states it is good btwn -34.4degC to 149degC. So for me to even try it would
not be within the mfgr's specs :(

What products have you used?  What did you like/dislike about them?

Cheers,

*Benn Kilburn *

CSA Certified Solar Photovoltaic Systems Electrician, SkyFire Energy Inc

6706 – 82 Ave NW | Edmonton, AB | T6B 0E7

P: 780-474-8992 | F: 888-405-5843 | www.skyfireenergy.com

[image: email]  [image: facebook]
 [image: twitter]
 [image: linkedin]

 [image: google] 

[image: SkyFire Energy Logo_horizontal]
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Rodent/Pigeon/Critter Guards

[Benn Kilburn]

Brian,
I have used the SnapNRack and i do like their clips more than the J-hooks.

Thanks

*Benn Kilburn *
CSA Certified Solar Photovoltaic Systems Electrician, SkyFire Energy Inc
14515 – 121A Ave NW | Edmonton, AB | T5L 2T2
P: 780-474-8992 | F: 888-405-5843
www.skyfireenergy.com
[image: email]  [image: facebook]
 [image: twitter]
 [image: linkedin]



[image: SkyFire Energy Logo_horizontal]

On Wed, Jun 21, 2017 at 11:42 AM, Brian Teitelbaum  wrote:

> Benn,
>
>
>
> You might want to take a look at the SnapNrack Array Edge Screen system
>
>
>
> It’s universal since it attaches to the module frames, not the racking.
> Looks pretty nice too.
>
>
>
> Brian Teitelbaum
>
> AEE Solar
>
>
>
> *From:* RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] *On
> Behalf Of *Benn Kilburn
> *Sent:* Wednesday, June 21, 2017 10:07 AM
> *To:* RE-wrenches
> *Subject:* Re: [RE-wrenches] Rodent/Pigeon/Critter Guards
>
>
>
> I'm hoping to get some feedback on this topic, as there was none when I
> posted it back in 2015.
>
>
>
> Our region is seeing more and more problems with pigeons nesting under PV
> arrays, mostly on new homes in newly developed areas of the city.
>
> We have been called to some sites that had particularly bad problems with
> pigeons nesting and pigeon poop covering the roof itself (surprisingly more
> so that the array, unless it is just the rain washing it off the modules
> easier than the roof?) and the eavestroughs filled with poop and
> overflowing onto the ground.
>
>
>
> We really want to nip this issue in the butt since none of us want people
> associating PV systems with pigeon problems. We have heard that some of
> these problem houses have a neighbourhood reputation as "the pigeon house".
>
>
>
> Has anyone tried and had success with any of the solutions "other than"
> the wire mesh and J-hooks??? I'm not confidant that the j-hooks are robust
> enough to last very long. We often have several on each install that the
> washer simply will not hold  tight.
>
> (See the prior post below for some other suggestions)
>
>
>
> Thanks!
>
> Benn
>
> SkyFire Energy
>
>
> On Jul 22, 2015, at 2:00 PM, Benn Kilburn  wrote:
>
> Wrenches,
>
> I've looked and found a few older threads on the topic but thought it is a
> good time to refresh our collective info on this as we are getting more
> requests to install these (and it is also going to be required by code on
> some systems when our province adopts the 2015 Canadian Electrical Code.
> We currently use the 2012 code)
>
> The issue that we are directly addressing is mostly pigeons hanging
> out/nesting under rooftop arrays, for now.  I haven't heard of any specific
> rodent issues in our region.
>
> I have installed the SnapNRack Edge Screen.  This was on a concrete tile
> roof so the problem i saw with that was the screen did not contour the
> tile, leaving a small gap where one tile overlaps the one below it, roughly
> 25mm (1").  This would not be an issue with keeping out pigeons, but i
> could imagine that a persistent rodent could squeeze its way thru the small
> gap.  This would not be an issue on the more common asphalt shingle roofs
> and i would say it is a solid product.
>
> The products i'm aware of are:
>
> SnapNRack
>
> Kinetic
>
> Heyco
>
> spiffysolar
> solatrim.com
>
> Kinetic, Heyco, and Spiffy each seem to be basically the same; wire mesh
> and a j-hook that attaches to the module frame.
>
> SnapNRack is wire mesh but attaches with a more more robust clip that also
> provides more vertical support to the mesh. (It was suggested that rodents
> may be able to push under the mesh when its only supported at the top with
> j-hooks)
>
> I've seen the wire mesh installed so that it comes down only as far as the
> roof, so the height of the mesh is essentially the height from the top of
> the mod frame to the roof surface, but i have also seen it where the mesh
> is taller than this and the excess (rather than being trimmed to size)
> comes down and lays out on the roof in an outward direction.  It was
> suggested that this may be more of a deterrent to rodents that would
> otherwise push their way under the mesh if it only comes down to meet the
> roof.
>
> Comments/Suggestions?
>
>
>
> The last product mentioned, solatrim, is completely different from the
> rest. It looks much more solid that the rest and uses a peel-and-stick
> approach using a 3M adhesive tape.  My first and only initial apprehension
> with this one is the adhesive.  While 3M makes darn good adhesives, it
> leaves to question how it will hold up against our seasonal ambient
> temperature swings of above +30degC to below -40degC.  Their spec sheet
> states it is good btwn -34.4degC to 149degC. So for me to even try it would
> not be within the mfgr's specs :(
>
> What products have you u

[RE-wrenches] Solar over a pool - what must I pay attention to?

[Howard Arey]

Greetings, Wrenches!

 

I have a client that wants one of our solar pavilions over their pool. We
have never done this and wanted to hear opinions on what code requirements
might be pertinent (or little known) for solar modules over water.

 

Howard "Scot" Arey

Owner, Solar CenTex

NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional

254-300-1228

scot.a...@solarcentex.com

 

www.solarcentex.com  

https://www.facebook.com/SolarCentex



Top-Rated Solar Installer in Texas by Solar Reviews
 



 

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Re: [RE-wrenches] Solar over a pool - what must I pay attention to?

[Jason Szumlanski]

See NEC 680.8. From what I have been able to determine, it's completely
unworkable to install solar modules over a swimming pool unless you can
complete enclose all conductors in raceway, and even then it would be very
questionable by AHJs I have asked.

I get this question at least once a week in Florida. Usually it's something
like, "can't I just install them on my pool screened enclosure." Um, no.
Have you seen what hurricanes do to those things? :)

What's interesting is that sometimes roofs extend over the edge of a pool,
or certainly within 10' of the lateral pool wall boundary. But solar panels
with exposed wiring above these roofs are allowed by AHJs, so I guess if
it's on the roof (or in the attic), the conductor is not considered
"overhead" or "exposed."

Jason Szumlanski
Florida Solar Design Group




On Wed, Jun 21, 2017 at 3:47 PM, Howard Arey 
wrote:

> Greetings, Wrenches!
>
>
>
> I have a client that wants one of our solar pavilions over their pool. We
> have never done this and wanted to hear opinions on what code requirements
> might be pertinent (or little known) for solar modules over water.
>
>
>
> *Howard “Scot” Arey*
>
> Owner, Solar CenTex
>
> NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional
>
> 254-300-1228 <(254)%20300-1228>
>
> scot.a...@solarcentex.com
>
>
>
> www.solarcentex.com
> 
>
> https://www.facebook.com/SolarCentex
> 
>
> Top-Rated Solar Installer in Texas by Solar Reviews
> 
>
> [image: Solar Centex Logo - No Back]
>
>
>
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[RE-wrenches] Suntech modules

[Jeremy Rodriguez]

If Anyone has some Suntech STP-200-220/18 modules (3) 
Please contact me off list. 


Jeremy Rodriguez 
Solar Installation And 
Design Expert 
All Solar, Inc.
1463 M St
Penrose Colorado 81240

Sent by Jeremy's iPhone. Sorry for typos and shorthand!
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Disposal of large scale PV installation?

[AE Solar]

I'm just following up on this thread late. We are located not too far from
the array that was coming down and ended up putting in a bid to do the
demolition/removal of the panels. The contract was won by someone else, so
I'm not sure where those specific panels will end up, but it was definitely
an interesting project to research. In all the folks I talked with I only
heard of one other large scale system (5 MW maybe?) that came down
prematurely (due to hail damage). I assume that decommissioning these large
scale systems is something that is going to become more and more prevalent
though. Moving forward I think we will be trying to add the deconstruction
of large scale arrays into our scope of work.

Adam Katzman
Autonomous Energies
PO Box 1245
Kingston, NY 12402
www.autonomousenergies.com
(518) 567-1468


On Fri, Apr 21, 2017 at 5:11 PM, Glenn Burt  wrote:

> I wonder if an organization like Habitat for Humanity would be interested?
> --
> From: Dan Fink 
> Sent: ‎4/‎21/‎2017 14:15
> To: RE-wrenches 
> Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Disposal of large scale PV installation?
>
> I agree Ray - and with situations like this recent 1+ mW one I got the
> call on, it's the demolition company or in the case of a tractor-trailer
> wreck, the salvage company -- see
> http://otherpower.com/damaged-pv-module-container-142-kw
>
> The problem is that salvage and demo companies business is getting rid of
> this stuff FAST, not parting it out, as they have no place to store it,
> nobody to manage any parting out, And with PV prices so low.
>
> The people who need this equipment the most are the least able to afford
> it.
>
> Dan Fink
> Professor of Solar Energy Technology, Ecotech Institute
> IREC Certified Instructor™ for:
> ~ PV Installation Professional
> ~ Small Wind Installer
>
> [The entire original message is not included.]
>
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Re: [RE-wrenches] RE-wrenches Digest, Vol 10, Issue 152

[Daniel Duffield]

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jun 22, 2017, at 6:07 AM, re-wrenches-requ...@lists.re-wrenches.org wrote:
> 
> Send RE-wrenches mailing list submissions to
>re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org
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> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
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> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
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> When responding to posts within the Digest, be sure to restore the Subject: 
> line to the original, and please edit out any extraneous lines from the 
> quoted message.
> 
> 
> Today's Topics:
> 
>   1. Re: Rodent/Pigeon/Critter Guards (Benn Kilburn)
>   2. Solar over a pool - what must I pay attention to? (Howard Arey)
>   3. Re: Solar over a pool - what must I pay 

Our go to 3M all weather pressure sensitive adhesive tape (double sided) a 
product called VHB and it's performance has been excellent.
On PV above pools, I don't have a code book in front of me but my experience is 
conductors about the pools, have to be some astronomical number of feet above 
the surface of the water, I think it was 25', pretty much eliminates most 
structures,  being  builtafter the fact, from being used - it's very 
prohibitive and it's because the splashing I think. With Roofs not being 
optimally laid out for PV,  shade, chimneys, trees,  available PV space is at a 
premium. The best we did was the set up patio or gazebos structures adjacent to 
pools and created usable shade space and place PV there -when there was 
available backyard space

Daniel O. Duffield 
NABCEP PV INSTALL Professional
NM EE98 & ER01

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Re: [RE-wrenches] Solar over a pool - what must I pay attention to?"

[toddcory]

increased corrosion from chlorine gas would likely be an issue too.
 
todd
 
 
 



On Wednesday, June 21, 2017 7:53pm, "Daniel Duffield"  said:



 
> Our go to 3M all weather pressure sensitive adhesive tape (double sided) a 
> product
> called VHB and it's performance has been excellent.
> On PV above pools, I don't have a code book in front of me but my experience 
> is
> conductors about the pools, have to be some astronomical number of feet above 
> the
> surface of the water, I think it was 25', pretty much eliminates most 
> structures, 
> being built after the fact, from being used - it's very prohibitive and it's
> because the splashing I think. With Roofs not being optimally laid out for 
> PV, 
> shade, chimneys, trees, available PV space is at a premium. The best we did 
> was
> the set up patio or gazebos structures adjacent to pools and created usable 
> shade
> space and place PV there -when there was available backyard space
> 
> Daniel O. Duffield
> NABCEP PV INSTALL Professional
> NM EE98 & ER01
>



Sent from Finest Planet WebMail.


Sent from Finest Planet WebMail.
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