Re: [RE-wrenches] 24 volt LiFePO4 Battery options

2019-09-26 Thread John Blittersdorf
Howie and Allen,
 I used 5 Simpliphi 24v to replace 24 L16 wet cells.  He wanted to keep
his old Bergey 850 which I had rebuilt for him a few years ago.  He has two
VFX3524’s in a Flexware 500 but we are running just one to keep idle loads
down.  We did have one incident where the batteries would not charge when
the temp dropped into the mid 30’s in his unheated but well insulated power
room.

John Blittersdorf

On Thu, Sep 26, 2019 at 9:23 PM Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar <
offgridso...@sti.net> wrote:

> Allen, Discover AES is all I use for Schneider CSW 4024. Direct comms into
> xanbus.
>
> *Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar
> "we go where powerlines don't"
> http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/ 
> e-mail  offgridso...@sti.net 
> text 209 813 0060*
>
> On Thu, 26 Sep 2019 18:32:28 -0600, Allan Sindelar <
> al...@sindelarsolar.com> wrote:
>
>
> Howie, I'm fully in your court. Just today I replaced 2000 pounds of 18
> year old HUPs with 1800 pounds of... HUPs. It's a full rebuild of a 24v
> system from the mid-80s, and the scales on a system that vintage couldn't
> justify a 48v system.
> I have asked Blue Planet more than once if they plan to one day develop a
> 24v Blue Zion package, and the answer has each time been no. So I'd like to
> hear if there's a 24V option of equal quality and BMS sophistication.
> Thanks!
> Allan Sindelar
> On Sep 26, 2019, at 3:17 PM, Howie Michaelson 
> wrote:
>
> I get what you are saying Jerry, but this client ( a retiring teacher in a
> very rural, low wage school district, sadly) has lived very lightly
> off-grid (1kW solar, 24v Rolls KS21s original batteries) for 18 years years
> and has no pressing need to upgrade his VFX3524 inverter. I'd rather find a
> good 24volt option to compare a straight KS21 replacement to.  I know the
> inverter could crap out at any time, but if it ain't broke...
> Howie
>
> On Thu, Sep 26, 2019 at 5:03 PM Jerry Shafer 
> wrote:
>
>> Dollars and sence, drop the 24 volt, BPI is a great battery. Once l show
>> my customers all the benefits of a 48 volt upgrade it wins every time. I am
>> not talking about busses, RV's and one night stands l am talking about off
>> grid homes.
>>
>> On Thu, Sep 26, 2019, 1:53 PM Howie Michaelson <
>> howie.michael...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Hi all,
>>> I've been using BlueIon batteries recently both on- and off-grid, and
>>> really like them so far, although I have limited time on them so not a ton
>>> of experience yet.  I am wondering what folks are liking for 24 v LiFePO4
>>> battery options.  I have 24 volt off-grid clients who are not ready to swap
>>> out to 48v, but might be interested in Lithium batteries. TIA,
>>> Howie
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Re: [RE-wrenches] 24 volt LiFePO4 Battery options

2019-09-26 Thread Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar


Allen, Discover AES is all I use for Schneider CSW 4024. Direct comms
into xanbus. 
Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar
"we go where powerlines
don't"
http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/ [1]
e-mail offgridso...@sti.net
[2]
text 209 813 0060

On Thu, 26 Sep 2019 18:32:28 -0600, Allan Sindelar 
wrote:Howie, I'm fully in your court. Just today I replaced 2000 pounds
of 18 year old HUPs with 1800 pounds of... HUPs. It's a full rebuild of a
24v system from the mid-80s, and the scales on a system that vintage
couldn't justify a 48v system.  I have asked Blue Planet more than once if
they plan to one day develop a 24v Blue Zion package, and the answer has
each time been no. So I'd like to hear if there's a 24V option of equal
quality and BMS sophistication.  Thanks! Allan Sindelar 
On Sep 26, 2019,
at 3:17 PM, Howie Michaelson  wrote:

I get what you are saying Jerry,
but this client ( a retiring teacher in a very rural, low wage school
district, sadly) has lived very lightly off-grid (1kW solar, 24v Rolls
KS21s original batteries) for 18 years years and has no pressing need to
upgrade his VFX3524 inverter. I'd rather find a good 24volt option to
compare a straight KS21 replacement to. I know the inverter could crap out
at any time, but if it ain't broke... Howie  
  On Thu, Sep 26, 2019 at
5:03 PM Jerry Shafer  wrote:  Dollars and sence, drop the 24 volt, BPI is a
great battery. Once l show my customers all the benefits of a 48 volt
upgrade it wins every time. I am not talking about busses, RV's and one
night stands l am talking about off grid homes.  
  On Thu, Sep 26, 2019,
1:53 PM Howie Michaelson  wrote:   Hi all, I've been using BlueIon
batteries recently both on- and off-grid, and really like them so far,
although I have limited time on them so not a ton of experience yet. I am
wondering what folks are liking for 24 v LiFePO4 battery options. I have 24
volt off-grid clients who are not ready to swap out to 48v, but might be
interested in Lithium batteries. TIA, Howie 
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Re: [RE-wrenches] 24 volt LiFePO4 Battery options

2019-09-26 Thread Allan Sindelar
Howie, I’m fully in your court. Just today I replaced 2000 pounds of 18 year 
old HUPs with 1800 pounds of... HUPs. It’s a full rebuild of a 24v system from 
the mid-80s, and the scales on a system that vintage couldn’t justify a 48v 
system. 
I have asked Blue Planet more than once if they plan to one day develop a 24v 
Blue Zion package, and the answer has each time been no. So I’d like to hear if 
there’s a 24V option of equal quality and BMS sophistication. 
Thanks!
Allan Sindelar 
> On Sep 26, 2019, at 3:17 PM, Howie Michaelson  
> wrote:
> 
> I get what you are saying Jerry, but this client ( a retiring teacher in a 
> very rural, low wage school district, sadly) has lived very lightly off-grid 
> (1kW solar, 24v Rolls KS21s original batteries) for 18 years years and has no 
> pressing need to upgrade his VFX3524 inverter. I'd rather find a good 24volt 
> option to compare a straight KS21 replacement to.  I know the inverter could 
> crap out at any time, but if it ain't broke...
> Howie
> 
>> On Thu, Sep 26, 2019 at 5:03 PM Jerry Shafer  
>> wrote:
>> Dollars and sence, drop the 24 volt, BPI is a great battery. Once l show my 
>> customers all the benefits of a 48 volt upgrade it wins every time. I am not 
>> talking about busses, RV's and one night stands l am talking about off grid 
>> homes. 
>> 
>>> On Thu, Sep 26, 2019, 1:53 PM Howie Michaelson  
>>> wrote:
>>> Hi all,
>>> I've been using BlueIon batteries recently both on- and off-grid, and 
>>> really like them so far, although I have limited time on them so not a ton 
>>> of experience yet.  I am wondering what folks are liking for 24 v LiFePO4 
>>> battery options.  I have 24 volt off-grid clients who are not ready to swap 
>>> out to 48v, but might be interested in Lithium batteries. TIA,
>>> Howie
>>> ___
>>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance
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>>> List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org
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Re: [RE-wrenches] 24 volt LiFePO4 Battery options

2019-09-26 Thread jay
You might also look at

https://www.cdtechno.com/pdf/lit/12_1137.pdf 


Which is using nano carbon, for 3000 cycles to 50%.

Other battery companies also have carbon/lead at up to 4000+ cycles for VRLA, 
and Rolls has 4500 cycles for flooded, both at 50% DOD.

The UnigyII is tried and proven tech, but low cycle life compared to the newer 
carbon LA chemistries.


jay

Peltz Power






> On Sep 26, 2019, at 2:55 PM, Jerry Shafer  wrote:
> 
> Howie
> Understand but the reality is that inverter is going to fail and then it may 
> be to late to make an upgrade and it will be more costly. You might want to 
> consider Deka Unigyll that can be bussed in 24 volts and changed to 48 volts 
> later. No it's not LI but it's a good solution. 
> Jerry
> 
> On Thu, Sep 26, 2019, 2:18 PM Howie Michaelson  > wrote:
> I get what you are saying Jerry, but this client ( a retiring teacher in a 
> very rural, low wage school district, sadly) has lived very lightly off-grid 
> (1kW solar, 24v Rolls KS21s original batteries) for 18 years years and has no 
> pressing need to upgrade his VFX3524 inverter. I'd rather find a good 24volt 
> option to compare a straight KS21 replacement to.  I know the inverter could 
> crap out at any time, but if it ain't broke...
> Howie
> 
> On Thu, Sep 26, 2019 at 5:03 PM Jerry Shafer  > wrote:
> Dollars and sence, drop the 24 volt, BPI is a great battery. Once l show my 
> customers all the benefits of a 48 volt upgrade it wins every time. I am not 
> talking about busses, RV's and one night stands l am talking about off grid 
> homes. 
> 
> On Thu, Sep 26, 2019, 1:53 PM Howie Michaelson  > wrote:
> Hi all,
> I've been using BlueIon batteries recently both on- and off-grid, and really 
> like them so far, although I have limited time on them so not a ton of 
> experience yet.  I am wondering what folks are liking for 24 v LiFePO4 
> battery options.  I have 24 volt off-grid clients who are not ready to swap 
> out to 48v, but might be interested in Lithium batteries. TIA,
> Howie
> ___
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Re: [RE-wrenches] 24 volt LiFePO4 Battery options

2019-09-26 Thread Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar


My 2 cents are each client is different and if they have been fine on
that one set of batteries then do what is in their interest. An inverter is
easily replaced. I might also suggest to stay with the FLA and avoid
possible issues with LFP. No matter how good they are in many cases, they
still have electronics in them that can fail and cause a new way to lose
power offgrid. 

In my case and quite a few of my offgrid clients I want a
complete back-up of the battery if LFP is used. That is what is so nice
about having multiple battery systems. One can fail and each has it's own
BMS. A spare LFP system can also sit for a year and be fine as long as it
gets some exercise. Good Luck Howie! All good on those two Schneider xwp
and gateway/insight2 systems? 
Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar
"we go where
powerlines don't"
http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/ [1]
e-mail
offgridso...@sti.net [2]
text 209 813 0060

On Thu, 26 Sep 2019 17:17:47
-0400, Howie Michaelson  wrote:   I get what you are saying Jerry, but this
client ( a retiring teacher in a very rural, low wage school district,
sadly) has lived very lightly off-grid (1kW solar, 24v Rolls KS21s original
batteries) for 18 years years and has no pressing need to upgrade his
VFX3524 inverter. I'd rather find a good 24volt option to compare a
straight KS21 replacement to. I know the inverter could crap out at any
time, but if it ain't broke... Howie  
  On Thu, Sep 26, 2019 at 5:03 PM
Jerry Shafer  wrote:  Dollars and sence, drop the 24 volt, BPI is a great
battery. Once l show my customers all the benefits of a 48 volt upgrade it
wins every time. I am not talking about busses, RV's and one night stands l
am talking about off grid homes.  
  On Thu, Sep 26, 2019, 1:53 PM Howie
Michaelson  wrote:   Hi all, I've been using BlueIon batteries recently
both on- and off-grid, and really like them so far, although I have limited
time on them so not a ton of experience yet. I am wondering what folks are
liking for 24 v LiFePO4 battery options. I have 24 volt off-grid clients
who are not ready to swap out to 48v, but might be interested in Lithium
batteries. TIA, Howie  ___

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Re: [RE-wrenches] 24 volt LiFePO4 Battery options

2019-09-26 Thread Jerry Shafer
Howie
Understand but the reality is that inverter is going to fail and then it
may be to late to make an upgrade and it will be more costly. You might
want to consider Deka Unigyll that can be bussed in 24 volts and changed to
48 volts later. No it's not LI but it's a good solution.
Jerry

On Thu, Sep 26, 2019, 2:18 PM Howie Michaelson 
wrote:

> I get what you are saying Jerry, but this client ( a retiring teacher in a
> very rural, low wage school district, sadly) has lived very lightly
> off-grid (1kW solar, 24v Rolls KS21s original batteries) for 18 years years
> and has no pressing need to upgrade his VFX3524 inverter. I'd rather find a
> good 24volt option to compare a straight KS21 replacement to.  I know the
> inverter could crap out at any time, but if it ain't broke...
> Howie
>
> On Thu, Sep 26, 2019 at 5:03 PM Jerry Shafer 
> wrote:
>
>> Dollars and sence, drop the 24 volt, BPI is a great battery. Once l show
>> my customers all the benefits of a 48 volt upgrade it wins every time. I am
>> not talking about busses, RV's and one night stands l am talking about off
>> grid homes.
>>
>> On Thu, Sep 26, 2019, 1:53 PM Howie Michaelson <
>> howie.michael...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Hi all,
>>> I've been using BlueIon batteries recently both on- and off-grid, and
>>> really like them so far, although I have limited time on them so not a ton
>>> of experience yet.  I am wondering what folks are liking for 24 v LiFePO4
>>> battery options.  I have 24 volt off-grid clients who are not ready to swap
>>> out to 48v, but might be interested in Lithium batteries. TIA,
>>> Howie
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Re: [RE-wrenches] 24 volt LiFePO4 Battery options

2019-09-26 Thread jay
Discoverer/Rolls has a 24v one.

Feel free to contact me off list and I can share some simpliphi stories

jay



> On Sep 26, 2019, at 2:28 PM, Chad Waits  wrote:
> 
> Simpliphi... They have 24V versions of their batteries.
> 
> Chad Waits
> President
> 520-270-4873
> 
> 
> 
> On Thu, Sep 26, 2019 at 1:53 PM Howie Michaelson  > wrote:
> Hi all,
> I've been using BlueIon batteries recently both on- and off-grid, and really 
> like them so far, although I have limited time on them so not a ton of 
> experience yet.  I am wondering what folks are liking for 24 v LiFePO4 
> battery options.  I have 24 volt off-grid clients who are not ready to swap 
> out to 48v, but might be interested in Lithium batteries. TIA,
> Howie
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Re: [RE-wrenches] 24 volt LiFePO4 Battery options

2019-09-26 Thread Howie Michaelson
I've been aware of Simplifi for some time now, and almost used them in my
early Li adoption phase, but moved over to The BlueIon instead for reasons
of DOD and cycle life/warranty.  I've heard good things about Simplifi as
well as Discover AES.  Does anyone have any experience with integrating
them into a single VFX3524 system?
Howie

On Thu, Sep 26, 2019 at 5:28 PM Chad Waits 
wrote:

> Simpliphi... They have 24V versions of their batteries.
>
> Chad Waits
> President
> 520-270-4873
>
>
>
> On Thu, Sep 26, 2019 at 1:53 PM Howie Michaelson <
> howie.michael...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Hi all,
>> I've been using BlueIon batteries recently both on- and off-grid, and
>> really like them so far, although I have limited time on them so not a ton
>> of experience yet.  I am wondering what folks are liking for 24 v LiFePO4
>> battery options.  I have 24 volt off-grid clients who are not ready to swap
>> out to 48v, but might be interested in Lithium batteries. TIA,
>> Howie
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Re: [RE-wrenches] 24 volt LiFePO4 Battery options

2019-09-26 Thread Chad Waits
Simpliphi... They have 24V versions of their batteries.

Chad Waits
President
520-270-4873



On Thu, Sep 26, 2019 at 1:53 PM Howie Michaelson 
wrote:

> Hi all,
> I've been using BlueIon batteries recently both on- and off-grid, and
> really like them so far, although I have limited time on them so not a ton
> of experience yet.  I am wondering what folks are liking for 24 v LiFePO4
> battery options.  I have 24 volt off-grid clients who are not ready to swap
> out to 48v, but might be interested in Lithium batteries. TIA,
> Howie
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Re: [RE-wrenches] 24 volt LiFePO4 Battery options

2019-09-26 Thread Roland Shackelford
Simpliphi has a 24V option.

Mahalo,

Roland Shackelford
NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional #091209-162
President
Renewable Energy Services (RES), Inc. | www.renewablenergy.com |

On Thu, Sep 26, 2019 at 11:18 AM Howie Michaelson <
howie.michael...@gmail.com> wrote:

> I get what you are saying Jerry, but this client ( a retiring teacher in a
> very rural, low wage school district, sadly) has lived very lightly
> off-grid (1kW solar, 24v Rolls KS21s original batteries) for 18 years years
> and has no pressing need to upgrade his VFX3524 inverter. I'd rather find a
> good 24volt option to compare a straight KS21 replacement to.  I know the
> inverter could crap out at any time, but if it ain't broke...
> Howie
>
> On Thu, Sep 26, 2019 at 5:03 PM Jerry Shafer 
> wrote:
>
>> Dollars and sence, drop the 24 volt, BPI is a great battery. Once l show
>> my customers all the benefits of a 48 volt upgrade it wins every time. I am
>> not talking about busses, RV's and one night stands l am talking about off
>> grid homes.
>>
>> On Thu, Sep 26, 2019, 1:53 PM Howie Michaelson <
>> howie.michael...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Hi all,
>>> I've been using BlueIon batteries recently both on- and off-grid, and
>>> really like them so far, although I have limited time on them so not a ton
>>> of experience yet.  I am wondering what folks are liking for 24 v LiFePO4
>>> battery options.  I have 24 volt off-grid clients who are not ready to swap
>>> out to 48v, but might be interested in Lithium batteries. TIA,
>>> Howie
>>> ___
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Re: [RE-wrenches] 24 volt LiFePO4 Battery options

2019-09-26 Thread Howie Michaelson
I get what you are saying Jerry, but this client ( a retiring teacher in a
very rural, low wage school district, sadly) has lived very lightly
off-grid (1kW solar, 24v Rolls KS21s original batteries) for 18 years years
and has no pressing need to upgrade his VFX3524 inverter. I'd rather find a
good 24volt option to compare a straight KS21 replacement to.  I know the
inverter could crap out at any time, but if it ain't broke...
Howie

On Thu, Sep 26, 2019 at 5:03 PM Jerry Shafer 
wrote:

> Dollars and sence, drop the 24 volt, BPI is a great battery. Once l show
> my customers all the benefits of a 48 volt upgrade it wins every time. I am
> not talking about busses, RV's and one night stands l am talking about off
> grid homes.
>
> On Thu, Sep 26, 2019, 1:53 PM Howie Michaelson 
> wrote:
>
>> Hi all,
>> I've been using BlueIon batteries recently both on- and off-grid, and
>> really like them so far, although I have limited time on them so not a ton
>> of experience yet.  I am wondering what folks are liking for 24 v LiFePO4
>> battery options.  I have 24 volt off-grid clients who are not ready to swap
>> out to 48v, but might be interested in Lithium batteries. TIA,
>> Howie
>> ___
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Re: [RE-wrenches] 24 volt LiFePO4 Battery options

2019-09-26 Thread Jerry Shafer
Dollars and sence, drop the 24 volt, BPI is a great battery. Once l show my
customers all the benefits of a 48 volt upgrade it wins every time. I am
not talking about busses, RV's and one night stands l am talking about off
grid homes.

On Thu, Sep 26, 2019, 1:53 PM Howie Michaelson 
wrote:

> Hi all,
> I've been using BlueIon batteries recently both on- and off-grid, and
> really like them so far, although I have limited time on them so not a ton
> of experience yet.  I am wondering what folks are liking for 24 v LiFePO4
> battery options.  I have 24 volt off-grid clients who are not ready to swap
> out to 48v, but might be interested in Lithium batteries. TIA,
> Howie
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[RE-wrenches] 24 volt LiFePO4 Battery options

2019-09-26 Thread Howie Michaelson
Hi all,
I've been using BlueIon batteries recently both on- and off-grid, and
really like them so far, although I have limited time on them so not a ton
of experience yet.  I am wondering what folks are liking for 24 v LiFePO4
battery options.  I have 24 volt off-grid clients who are not ready to swap
out to 48v, but might be interested in Lithium batteries. TIA,
Howie
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Low OC Voltage

2019-09-26 Thread Drake
This is a follow up on an old post about a failed 
LKD module. I wrote that I'd give follow up 
information when it became available.


It turned out that some of the fine circuitry on 
the face of the module was fried: according to my friend, it looked welded.


Drake

At 09:59 AM 6/19/2019, drake.chamber...@redwoodalliance.org wrote:

Dave,

I gave the module to a friend who is going to go 
into the J-Box. If there are any conclusions I 
can post them on the list, but don't know when she plans to attempt the repair.


Thanks,

Drake



- Original Message -
From:
"RE-wrenches" 

To:
"RE-wrenches" 
Cc:

Sent:
Tue, 18 Jun 2019 14:57:47 -0400
Subject:
Re: [RE-wrenches] Low OC Voltage


Drake,Â
If you want to find out for sure, often you 
should be able to open up the jbox on the back 
and poke around. It certainly is somewhat 
destructive, but you may find that either a 
diode is not the issue, or it is fixable. 
Sometimes you do have to pull out potting 
though. I have restored modules for second hand 
use that otherwise would have ended up in the 
dump this way. Obviously though it wont be like new anymore.

Cheers,Â
Dave

Dave Tedeyan, PE
Senior Engineer | Taitem Engineering, PC

110 South Albany Street | Ithaca, NY 14850
o. 607.277.1118 x121Â  f. 607.277.2119
www.taitem.com

Solar •Â Sustainability •Â Energy •Â Design
B-Corporation Best for the World 2018 Honoree


On Thu, Jun 13, 2019 at 10:26 PM 
<drake.chamber...@redwoodalliance.org> 
wrote:

The outside temperature was unseasonably cool, maybe 55 degrees.



- Original Message -
From:
"RE-wrenches" 
<re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org>


To:
"RE-wrenches" 
<re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org>

Cc:

Sent:
Thu, 13 Jun 2019 09:25:39 -0400
Subject:
Re: [RE-wrenches] Low OC Voltage


Drake,Â
At what temperature did you get that reading? If 
it was very hot, then that could just be poor 
temperature characteristics of the module. I 
have run into some modules, specifically 
Suniva's, that just do very poorly in warm 
temperatures. Otherwise, if the voltage is 
approximately 2/3 of what you would expect, then 
it is usually an issue in the module jbox. 
Either a bad diode or failed solder connection. 
This case is odd, because it is a little bit 
more than 2/3 the voltage. So maybe it was very 
cold with 1/3 the module not working, or very 
hot. Also, taking a look with an IR camera when 
the system is functioning can often show if 1/3 
the module is not working or if there are some bad cells in the module.


Cheers,Â
Dave

Dave Tedeyan, PE
Senior Engineer | Taitem Engineering, PC

110 South Albany Street | Ithaca, NY 14850
o. 607.277.1118 x121Â  f. 607.277.2119
www.taitem.com

Solar •Â Sustainability •Â Energy •Â Design
B-Corporation Best for the World 2018 Honoree


On Tue, Jun 11, 2019 at 7:05 PM Drake 
<drake.chamber...@redwoodalliance.org> 
wrote:

Hello Wrenches,

Would you expect a low open circuit voltage in a 
module to be due to a problem in the J-box / 
diodes or the module itself? The OC voltage read 
about 28.3 V, where as the STC OC voltage of the module is 37.3.


The module is an LDK 240, which means no warranty.

Thanks,

Drake

Drake Chamberlin
Athens Electric LLC
OH License 44810
CO License 3773
NABCEP Certified Solar PV
740-448-7328
http://athens-electric.com/

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[RE-wrenches] Eversource utility in CT

2019-09-26 Thread Dave Tedeyan
Hi All,
I am doing a residential design for someone in CT. I am not familiar with
the utility there. Does anyone know whether the Eversource utility requires
an external AC disconnect for PV systems? And is that disconnect required
at the house or at the meter (if the meter is on a pedestal near the road)?
This is a fairly simple roof mounted system, <25kw.

Cheers,
Dave

*Dave Tedeyan, PE*
Senior Engineer | Taitem Engineering, PC

110 South Albany Street | Ithaca, NY 14850
o. *607.277.1118 x121*  f. 607.277.2119
www.taitem.com

Solar • Sustainability • Energy • Design
B-Corporation Best for the World 2018 Honoree
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