Re: [RE-wrenches] Charging 48V Battery with One Module

[Nick A Lucchese]

Jason, Mack, Maverick, Kent and John,

Looks like the Genasun absorb set points are 57.6 right? Were you still needing 
this for a LiFePO4 battery option Jason? Maybe they offer a different voltage 
setpoint option I’m not seeing? I’ve needed something like this for a couple 
applications as well. Even if something like this existed to boost output 
voltage before going into a larger controller like an FM60 or Midnite option.

At least with today’s newer 60 cell modules we can put a couple in series and 
Vmpp will still be high enough to hit absorb set points for lithium options 
even after heating up. A luxury we didn’t have in the past with FLA and 
periodic requirements for EQ’ing. I know two 60 cell modules is much more 
footprint than a single but at least we have that.

Enjoy your night, Nick

> On Apr 12, 2021, at 10:40 AM, Jason Szumlanski 
>  wrote:
> 
> I want to charge a 51.2V LiPO battery with a single 420W 72-cell module. Vmp 
> is 40.14V. 
> 
> It's one of those situations where I just need a lot of battery capacity as a 
> backup for a specified time period, but it doesn't matter how long it takes 
> to charge it back up. And I have space for exactly one 72-cell module.
> 
> It's going to be a Victron inverter. I'm not sure if they make a DC-DC 
> solution for this charging scenario or if there is another way to accomplish 
> it without too much cost and complexity. I was half-heartedly thinking about 
> an AC coupled microinverter, but that has drawbacks in terms of efficiency I 
> think. Maybe that's not any worse than DC-DC conversion - I'm not sure. AC 
> Coupling would probably be cheaper and easier. Monitoring might be 
> difficult/limited. And AC coupling would require that the inverter be on 
> (inverting) which isn't ideal for this situation either.
> 
> Thanks in advance,
> 
> Jason Szumlanski
> Florida Solar Design Group
> 
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Charging 48V Battery with One Module

[Jerry Shafer]

Wrenches
Here is just a thought, each module is either 2, 3 or some with 4 strings
within a single module, so you open the junction box remove the diodes and
cut the buss jumpers, reconfigure the box to a single longer string to
multiply the voltage and equally divide the amperage. you will need to keep
the new VOC and VMP within the usable range of the charge controller.
Of course this will void any warranty of the module, also be aware of
higher voltage when exposed to sunlight. In the past I was involved in
military grade manufacturing of foldable modules designed specifically for
systems with no charge controller but this is a down and dirty solution.
Just a thought

I

On Mon, Apr 12, 2021 at 1:52 PM Jason Szumlanski <
ja...@floridasolardesigngroup.com> wrote:

> I considered a 96-cell panel, but the highest watt panels don't compare to
> new 72-cell panels coming out in the 400+ watt range. It's a good fallback
> position because I might be losing more in the conversion than I am gaining
> in the higher power output.
>
> Jason Szumlanski
>
>
> On Mon, Apr 12, 2021 at 2:23 PM Kent Osterberg 
> wrote:
>
>> Jason,
>>
>> Would a 96 cell Panasonic module fit in the space you have available? It
>> would give you sufficient voltage to charge this battery.
>>
>> Kent Osterberg
>> Blue Mountain Solar
>>
>> On 4/12/2021 10:40 AM, Jason Szumlanski wrote:
>>
>> I want to charge a 51.2V LiPO battery with a single 420W 72-cell module.
>> Vmp is 40.14V.
>>
>> It's one of those situations where I just need a lot of battery capacity
>> as a backup for a specified time period, but it doesn't matter how long it
>> takes to charge it back up. And I have space for exactly one 72-cell module.
>>
>> It's going to be a Victron inverter. I'm not sure if they make a DC-DC
>> solution for this charging scenario or if there is another way to
>> accomplish it without too much cost and complexity. I was half-heartedly
>> thinking about an AC coupled microinverter, but that has drawbacks in terms
>> of efficiency I think. Maybe that's not any worse than DC-DC conversion -
>> I'm not sure. AC Coupling would probably be cheaper and easier. Monitoring
>> might be difficult/limited. And AC coupling would require that the inverter
>> be on (inverting) which isn't ideal for this situation either.
>>
>> Thanks in advance,
>>
>> Jason Szumlanski
>> Florida Solar Design Group
>>
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Charging 48V Battery with One Module

[Kent Osterberg]

Genasun is a very interesting option and it looks like they also have a 
charge controller set for 54.2 volts which is probably the right charge 
voltage, but it is only rated for a PV max power point current of 8 amps 
(maybe 9). Ten amps from a 420 W solar panel might be pushing it too 
hard, certainly beyond its specs.


Most "dumb" voltage converters operate around 85% efficiency. If taking 
that much loss, it would be better to use a lower power, higher voltage 
PV module with a common MPPT controller. That is one less part to fail too.


Kent Osterberg
Blue Mountain Solar

On 4/12/2021 7:27 PM, Jason Szumlanski wrote:
That's what I was thinking. Not a MPPT controller... Just a "dumb" 
booster that put the voltage high enough for any off the shelf MPPT 
controller. But it can't really work like that. The MPPT function need 
to be at the lower voltage side of the device I think.


On Mon, Apr 12, 2021, 9:38 PM Nick A Lucchese > wrote:


Jason, Mack, Maverick, Kent and John,

Looks like the Genasun absorb set points are 57.6 right? Were you
still needing this for a LiFePO4 battery option Jason? Maybe they
offer a different voltage setpoint option I’m not seeing? I’ve
needed something like this for a couple applications as well. Even
if something like this existed to boost output voltage before
going into a larger controller like an FM60 or Midnite option.

At least with today’s newer 60 cell modules we can put a couple in
series and Vmpp will still be high enough to hit absorb set points
for lithium options even after heating up. A luxury we didn’t have
in the past with FLA and periodic requirements for EQ’ing. I know
two 60 cell modules is much more footprint than a single but at
least we have that.

Enjoy your night, Nick


On Apr 12, 2021, at 10:40 AM, Jason Szumlanski
mailto:ja...@floridasolardesigngroup.com>> wrote:

I want to charge a 51.2V LiPO battery with a single 420W 72-cell
module. Vmp is 40.14V.

It's one of those situations where I just need a lot of battery
capacity as a backup for a specified time period, but it doesn't
matter how long it takes to charge it back up. And I have space
for exactly one 72-cell module.

It's going to be a Victron inverter. I'm not sure if they make a
DC-DC solution for this charging scenario or if there is another
way to accomplish it without too much cost and complexity. I was
half-heartedly thinking about an AC coupled microinverter, but
that has drawbacks in terms of efficiency I think. Maybe that's
not any worse than DC-DC conversion - I'm not sure. AC Coupling
would probably be cheaper and easier. Monitoring might be
difficult/limited. And AC coupling would require that the
inverter be on (inverting) which isn't ideal for this situation
either.

Thanks in advance,

Jason Szumlanski
Florida Solar Design Group
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Charging 48V Battery with One Module

[Jason Szumlanski]

That's what I was thinking. Not a MPPT controller... Just a "dumb" booster
that put the voltage high enough for any off the shelf MPPT controller. But
it can't really work like that. The MPPT function need to be at the lower
voltage side of the device I think.

On Mon, Apr 12, 2021, 9:38 PM Nick A Lucchese  wrote:

> Jason, Mack, Maverick, Kent and John,
>
> Looks like the Genasun absorb set points are 57.6 right? Were you still
> needing this for a LiFePO4 battery option Jason? Maybe they offer a
> different voltage setpoint option I’m not seeing? I’ve needed something
> like this for a couple applications as well. Even if something like this
> existed to boost output voltage before going into a larger controller like
> an FM60 or Midnite option.
>
> At least with today’s newer 60 cell modules we can put a couple in series
> and Vmpp will still be high enough to hit absorb set points for lithium
> options even after heating up. A luxury we didn’t have in the past with FLA
> and periodic requirements for EQ’ing. I know two 60 cell modules is much
> more footprint than a single but at least we have that.
>
> Enjoy your night, Nick
>
> On Apr 12, 2021, at 10:40 AM, Jason Szumlanski <
> ja...@floridasolardesigngroup.com> wrote:
>
> I want to charge a 51.2V LiPO battery with a single 420W 72-cell module.
> Vmp is 40.14V.
>
> It's one of those situations where I just need a lot of battery capacity
> as a backup for a specified time period, but it doesn't matter how long it
> takes to charge it back up. And I have space for exactly one 72-cell module.
>
> It's going to be a Victron inverter. I'm not sure if they make a DC-DC
> solution for this charging scenario or if there is another way to
> accomplish it without too much cost and complexity. I was half-heartedly
> thinking about an AC coupled microinverter, but that has drawbacks in terms
> of efficiency I think. Maybe that's not any worse than DC-DC conversion -
> I'm not sure. AC Coupling would probably be cheaper and easier. Monitoring
> might be difficult/limited. And AC coupling would require that the inverter
> be on (inverting) which isn't ideal for this situation either.
>
> Thanks in advance,
>
> Jason Szumlanski
> Florida Solar Design Group
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Re: [RE-wrenches] PV direct EV charging

[Matt Sherald]

Mac,

Our car gobbles 11,500W when it's plugged in to the grid.  Even if we
reduced the charge rate it would still be a heck of a draw - the chargers
in the EVs are greedy.  I'll be curious to hear if anyone has a solution,
but my bet is that you need to give the EV a deep well to pull from
(probably deeper than a battery bank or PV array can directly and
consistently satisfy).

-Matt

On Mon, Apr 12, 2021 at 7:55 PM Mac Lewis  wrote:

> Sorry, I should have clarified, I am interested in EV charging with no
> grid available.  I think that Solaredge requires a grid
>
> On Mon, Apr 12, 2021 at 5:51 PM Dana Orzel  wrote:
>
>> SolarEdge
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Dana Orzel  Great Solar Works, Inc.
>>
>> *C - 208.721.7003   d...@solarwork.com
>> *
>>
>> Idaho Contractor - # 028765 Idaho PV # 028374
>>
>> NABCEP # 051112-136   www.greatsolarworks.com
>>
>> *"Responsible Technologies for Responsible People since 1988"  *
>>
>> *P* Please consider the environment before printing this email.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* RE-wrenches  *On
>> Behalf Of *Mac Lewis
>> *Sent:* Monday, April 12, 2021 5:24 PM
>> *To:* RE-wrenches 
>> *Subject:* [RE-wrenches] PV direct EV charging
>>
>>
>>
>> Hey wrenches,
>>
>>
>>
>> Are there any purpose built inverters designed to charge an EV,  PV
>> direct without batteries?
>>
>>
>>
>> Thanks in advance
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Mac Lewis
>>
>> "Yo solo sé que no sé nada." *-Sócrates*
>> ___
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>
> --
>
>
>
> Mac Lewis
>
> *"Yo solo sé que no sé nada." -Sócrates*
> ___
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-- 
Matt Sherald
PIMBY Energy, LLC
NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installer®
304-704-5943

www.getpimby.blogspot.com
www.getpimby.com
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Re: [RE-wrenches] PV direct EV charging

[Dana Orzel]

I just kind of ran into this issue a client wanted to charge a Tesla at night 
but the Tesla battery is 3.5 times larger what the than the house needed. The 
cost of nighttime charging shut the project down. You can operate a car charger 
off a 240 volt inverter at either 120 or 240 volt. The 120 volt takes a lot 
longer. Depends on your needs.

 

 

 

Dana Orzel  Great Solar Works, Inc. 

C - 208.721.7003   d...@solarwork.com

Idaho Contractor - # 028765 Idaho PV # 028374

NABCEP # 051112-136 
www.greatsolarworks.com

"Responsible Technologies for Responsible People since 1988"  

P Please consider the environment before printing this email.

 

 

From: RE-wrenches  On Behalf Of Mac 
Lewis
Sent: Monday, April 12, 2021 5:56 PM
To: RE-wrenches 
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] PV direct EV charging

 

Sorry, I should have clarified, I am interested in EV charging with no grid 
available.  I think that Solaredge requires a grid

 

On Mon, Apr 12, 2021 at 5:51 PM Dana Orzel mailto:d...@solarwork.com> > wrote:

SolarEdge

 

 

 

Dana Orzel  Great Solar Works, Inc. 

C - 208.721.7003   d...@solarwork.com 
 

Idaho Contractor - # 028765 Idaho PV # 028374

NABCEP # 051112-136   www.greatsolarworks.com 
 

"Responsible Technologies for Responsible People since 1988"  

P Please consider the environment before printing this email.

 

 

From: RE-wrenches mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org> > On Behalf Of Mac Lewis
Sent: Monday, April 12, 2021 5:24 PM
To: RE-wrenches mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> >
Subject: [RE-wrenches] PV direct EV charging

 

Hey wrenches,

 

Are there any purpose built inverters designed to charge an EV,  PV direct 
without batteries?

 

Thanks in advance




 

-- 

 

 

 

Mac Lewis

"Yo solo sé que no sé nada." -Sócrates

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-- 

 

 

 

Mac Lewis

"Yo solo sé que no sé nada." -Sócrates

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Re: [RE-wrenches] PV direct EV charging

[Mac Lewis]

Sorry, I should have clarified, I am interested in EV charging with no grid
available.  I think that Solaredge requires a grid

On Mon, Apr 12, 2021 at 5:51 PM Dana Orzel  wrote:

> SolarEdge
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Dana Orzel  Great Solar Works, Inc.
>
> *C - 208.721.7003   d...@solarwork.com
> *
>
> Idaho Contractor - # 028765 Idaho PV # 028374
>
> NABCEP # 051112-136   www.greatsolarworks.com
>
> *"Responsible Technologies for Responsible People since 1988"  *
>
> *P* Please consider the environment before printing this email.
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* RE-wrenches  *On
> Behalf Of *Mac Lewis
> *Sent:* Monday, April 12, 2021 5:24 PM
> *To:* RE-wrenches 
> *Subject:* [RE-wrenches] PV direct EV charging
>
>
>
> Hey wrenches,
>
>
>
> Are there any purpose built inverters designed to charge an EV,  PV direct
> without batteries?
>
>
>
> Thanks in advance
>
>
>
>
> --
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Mac Lewis
>
> "Yo solo sé que no sé nada." *-Sócrates*
> ___
> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance
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-- 



Mac Lewis

*"Yo solo sé que no sé nada." -Sócrates*
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Re: [RE-wrenches] PV direct EV charging

[Dana Orzel]

SolarEdge

 

 

 

Dana Orzel  Great Solar Works, Inc. 

C - 208.721.7003   d...@solarwork.com

Idaho Contractor - # 028765 Idaho PV # 028374

NABCEP # 051112-136   www.greatsolarworks.com 
 

"Responsible Technologies for Responsible People since 1988"  

P Please consider the environment before printing this email.

 

 

From: RE-wrenches  On Behalf Of Mac 
Lewis
Sent: Monday, April 12, 2021 5:24 PM
To: RE-wrenches 
Subject: [RE-wrenches] PV direct EV charging

 

Hey wrenches,

 

Are there any purpose built inverters designed to charge an EV,  PV direct 
without batteries?

 

Thanks in advance




 

-- 

 

 

 

Mac Lewis

"Yo solo sé que no sé nada." -Sócrates

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[RE-wrenches] PV direct EV charging

[Mac Lewis]

Hey wrenches,

Are there any purpose built inverters designed to charge an EV,  PV direct
without batteries?

Thanks in advance


-- 



Mac Lewis

*"Yo solo sé que no sé nada." -Sócrates*
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Charging 48V Battery with One Module

[wes kennedy]

I second the Genasun product line. I've done a few golf cart charging systems. 
works like a charm. 
-Wes Kennedy 303-653-3073 

On Monday, April 12, 2021, 12:03:52 PM MDT, Mac Lewis  
wrote:  
 
 There is a company called Genasun that I believe makes a boost solar charge 
controller to do this.  They are in the marine world and I haven't poured over 
their specs but they are worth checking out.  
Try looking at 
Genasun GVB-8-Li
Good Luck!

On Mon, Apr 12, 2021 at 11:43 AM Jason Szumlanski 
 wrote:

I want to charge a 51.2V LiPO battery with a single 420W 72-cell module. Vmp is 
40.14V. 
It's one of those situations where I just need a lot of battery capacity as a 
backup for a specified time period, but it doesn't matter how long it takes to 
charge it back up. And I have space for exactly one 72-cell module.
It's going to be a Victron inverter. I'm not sure if they make a DC-DC solution 
for this charging scenario or if there is another way to accomplish it without 
too much cost and complexity. I was half-heartedly thinking about an AC coupled 
microinverter, but that has drawbacks in terms of efficiency I think. Maybe 
that's not any worse than DC-DC conversion - I'm not sure. AC Coupling would 
probably be cheaper and easier. Monitoring might be difficult/limited. And AC 
coupling would require that the inverter be on (inverting) which isn't ideal 
for this situation either.
Thanks in advance,
Jason SzumlanskiFlorida Solar Design 
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-- 



Mac Lewis


"Yo solo sé que no sé nada." -Sócrates
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Charging 48V Battery with One Module

[John Blittersdorf]

I have a Genasun 36 volt charger on my golf cart boosting from
a  Kyosera 245 panel (26.9vm 29 voc) on the roof of the cart.   Works
perfectly.  I'm starting year 12 running this rig with solar only.
I originally had 3 85 watt Sunwize panels on it and about 3 years ago I
decided I didn't like the water dripping between the panels when it rained
and had an orphan 245 so order the Genesun which lives under the seat next
to the batteries.

John Blittersdorf

.

On Mon, Apr 12, 2021 at 1:43 PM Jason Szumlanski <
ja...@floridasolardesigngroup.com> wrote:

> I want to charge a 51.2V LiPO battery with a single 420W 72-cell module.
> Vmp is 40.14V.
>
> It's one of those situations where I just need a lot of battery capacity
> as a backup for a specified time period, but it doesn't matter how long it
> takes to charge it back up. And I have space for exactly one 72-cell module.
>
> It's going to be a Victron inverter. I'm not sure if they make a DC-DC
> solution for this charging scenario or if there is another way to
> accomplish it without too much cost and complexity. I was half-heartedly
> thinking about an AC coupled microinverter, but that has drawbacks in terms
> of efficiency I think. Maybe that's not any worse than DC-DC conversion -
> I'm not sure. AC Coupling would probably be cheaper and easier. Monitoring
> might be difficult/limited. And AC coupling would require that the inverter
> be on (inverting) which isn't ideal for this situation either.
>
> Thanks in advance,
>
> Jason Szumlanski
> Florida Solar Design Group
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Monitoring large PV systems

[William Miller]

Thomas and wrenches:



Thanks for your replies.



This system has an Elkor WattsOn 
digitizer feeding an Alsoenergy PowerLogger 1000

encoder.  There is an irradiation and module temperature sensors connected
to an Adam 4019

data acquisition module someone disconnected and an ambient temperature
sensor.



The data from the AlsoEnergy feeds the PowerTrack web portal.  PowerTrack
 is a pretty
useful online interface, but the service may be overpriced considering you
can get much of the same plus net metering from a properly installed and
configured E-Gauge system without the monthly charges.



It looks like the data from AlsoEnergy and the utility bill port into a
service called VistaWatt that repackages this readily available data and
regurgitates it in a slick format.  This service is over $2,000 per year.



>From what I can see, the Elkor data in the system we are working on at some
point became exactly 50% if what it is supposed to be.  There might have
been a failure of a CT or something else.  No one notified us of the
failure.



None of this reporting does any good unless someone is looking at it.  I
see the PowerTrack has alarms you can set up but I am not sure how to set
up an alarm that says, “your production is low!” for a given period.
Insolation varies, so unless you can tie electrical production to solar
irradiation, this quality control check needs to be a manual task.  To make
sure we don’t miss any problems that crop up, I am going to suggest we
train the facilities manager to open a production graph in the chosen
online interface once per week and give it a quick visual inspection
showing trends are consistent.



I am thinking one could avoid the recurring fees with a home-brew approach
and get comparable results.  This would consist of an E-Gauge for solar
production and a Control by Web  data
acquisition system to monitor meteorological data.  We are already using
Control by Web to drive the tracker so that is an easy transition.  Couple
the above with a weekly quick inspection of solar production and a
quarterly review of the entire system, I think we can assure our client
that they are getting the most out of their investment.  Am I covering all
of the necessities here?



Thanks again,



William Miller



Miller Solar

17395 Oak Road, Atascadero, CA 93422

805-438-5600

www.millersolar.com

CA Lic. 773985





*From:* RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] *On
Behalf Of *Thomas Hall
*Sent:* Saturday, April 10, 2021 10:59 PM
*To:* RE-wrenches
*Subject:* Re: [RE-wrenches] Monitoring large PV systems



AlsoEnergy bought a company called Locus Energy, Locus NOC, and bought a
company called Deck Monitoring.  All good platforms. I have worked with
both of those and they work well for commercial revenue grade monitoring
and weather reporting equipment integration. Also Energy also bought Draker
Labs.

What device are you going to work with, or planning to work with William ?



I have info on LGate products.



Thomas Hall

Solar Specialty Group

Www.solarspecialtygroup.com

thomash...@solarspecialtygroup.com

808-854-9539

NABCEP PV Installation Professional



On Apr 10, 2021, at 7:02 PM, Jerry Shafer  wrote:



Wrenches

Yes, fat spaniel was an early adaptor with lots of hardware

Jerry



On Sat, Apr 10, 2021, 7:42 PM Mark Frye  wrote:

I do remember Fat Spaniel. I remember the day they came to our office to
show us their product. It was an enclosure full of power strips, wall warts
and wires going everywhere.

Origins.

On 4/10/2021 2:52 PM, Jerry Shafer wrote:

Wrenches

I have used many of the monitoring platforms, many of which are either out
or bought out and consolidated. Anybody remember "Fat Spaniel" they were
one of the first. We had sites with full motion cameras to string level
monitoring. Now if its up to me I go simple with eguage, they have whats
needed and have a better chance of being around in a few years.

Jerry

NABCEP PV inspector



On Sat, Apr 10, 2021, 1:38 PM William Miller 
wrote:

Friends:



We are starting to work on larger grid-tied systems (500kW) and I am trying
to school myself on some of the aspects.  Monitoring is the subject at hand.



One such system uses AlsoEnergy hardware on the PowerTrack online
platform.  There is also a VistaWatt service that is involved that looks
like it is simply an analytics service.



Have I correctly categorized the above entities?  Does anyone have
experience with any of the above that might offer some insight as to the
pros and cons of these services?  Anyone have any documentation on the
hardware?



Thanks in advance!



William Miller

Re: [RE-wrenches] Charging 48V Battery with One Module

[Jason Szumlanski]

It looks like the Boost versions of the Genasun only go up to an 8A
input current rating. However, they have a footnote on the spec sheet that
reads:

"*Panel ratings have increased since we designed the GVB. Although we don't
believe in changing specifications without a corresponding engineering
change, based on both our customers' experiences over the years as well as
the headroom we designed into the GVB, we feel comfortable recommending the
GVB for panels with Imp up to 9A."

That won't work for a 420W module with an 11.05A Imp. Very good to know
about this product, nonetheless. Thank you!

Jason



On Mon, Apr 12, 2021 at 2:03 PM Mac Lewis  wrote:

> There is a company called Genasun that I believe makes a boost solar
> charge controller to do this.  They are in the marine world and I haven't
> poured over their specs but they are worth checking out.
>
> Try looking at
> Genasun GVB-8-Li
> Good Luck!
>
>
> On Mon, Apr 12, 2021 at 11:43 AM Jason Szumlanski <
> ja...@floridasolardesigngroup.com> wrote:
>
>> I want to charge a 51.2V LiPO battery with a single 420W 72-cell module.
>> Vmp is 40.14V.
>>
>> It's one of those situations where I just need a lot of battery capacity
>> as a backup for a specified time period, but it doesn't matter how long it
>> takes to charge it back up. And I have space for exactly one 72-cell module.
>>
>> It's going to be a Victron inverter. I'm not sure if they make a DC-DC
>> solution for this charging scenario or if there is another way to
>> accomplish it without too much cost and complexity. I was half-heartedly
>> thinking about an AC coupled microinverter, but that has drawbacks in terms
>> of efficiency I think. Maybe that's not any worse than DC-DC conversion -
>> I'm not sure. AC Coupling would probably be cheaper and easier. Monitoring
>> might be difficult/limited. And AC coupling would require that the inverter
>> be on (inverting) which isn't ideal for this situation either.
>>
>> Thanks in advance,
>>
>> Jason Szumlanski
>> Florida Solar Design Group
>> ___
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>>
>
> --
>
>
>
> Mac Lewis
>
> *"Yo solo sé que no sé nada." -Sócrates*
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Charging 48V Battery with One Module

[Jason Szumlanski]

I considered a 96-cell panel, but the highest watt panels don't compare to
new 72-cell panels coming out in the 400+ watt range. It's a good fallback
position because I might be losing more in the conversion than I am gaining
in the higher power output.

Jason Szumlanski


On Mon, Apr 12, 2021 at 2:23 PM Kent Osterberg  wrote:

> Jason,
>
> Would a 96 cell Panasonic module fit in the space you have available? It
> would give you sufficient voltage to charge this battery.
>
> Kent Osterberg
> Blue Mountain Solar
>
> On 4/12/2021 10:40 AM, Jason Szumlanski wrote:
>
> I want to charge a 51.2V LiPO battery with a single 420W 72-cell module.
> Vmp is 40.14V.
>
> It's one of those situations where I just need a lot of battery capacity
> as a backup for a specified time period, but it doesn't matter how long it
> takes to charge it back up. And I have space for exactly one 72-cell module.
>
> It's going to be a Victron inverter. I'm not sure if they make a DC-DC
> solution for this charging scenario or if there is another way to
> accomplish it without too much cost and complexity. I was half-heartedly
> thinking about an AC coupled microinverter, but that has drawbacks in terms
> of efficiency I think. Maybe that's not any worse than DC-DC conversion -
> I'm not sure. AC Coupling would probably be cheaper and easier. Monitoring
> might be difficult/limited. And AC coupling would require that the inverter
> be on (inverting) which isn't ideal for this situation either.
>
> Thanks in advance,
>
> Jason Szumlanski
> Florida Solar Design Group
>
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Charging 48V Battery with One Module

[Kent Osterberg]

Jason,

Would a 96 cell Panasonic module fit in the space you have available? It 
would give you sufficient voltage to charge this battery.


Kent Osterberg
Blue Mountain Solar

On 4/12/2021 10:40 AM, Jason Szumlanski wrote:
I want to charge a 51.2V LiPO battery with a single 420W 72-cell 
module. Vmp is 40.14V.


It's one of those situations where I just need a lot of battery 
capacity as a backup for a specified time period, but it doesn't 
matter how long it takes to charge it back up. And I have space for 
exactly one 72-cell module.


It's going to be a Victron inverter. I'm not sure if they make a DC-DC 
solution for this charging scenario or if there is another way to 
accomplish it without too much cost and complexity. I was 
half-heartedly thinking about an AC coupled microinverter, but that 
has drawbacks in terms of efficiency I think. Maybe that's not any 
worse than DC-DC conversion - I'm not sure. AC Coupling would probably 
be cheaper and easier. Monitoring might be difficult/limited. And AC 
coupling would require that the inverter be on (inverting) which isn't 
ideal for this situation either.


Thanks in advance,

Jason Szumlanski
Florida Solar Design Group

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Re: [RE-wrenches] Charging 48V Battery with One Module

[Maverick Brown]

I saw solar charge controller that boosts the voltage to allow a 60-cell module 
to charge a 48V nominal battery, like in a golf cart to Lithium conversion. I 
think it was a Genasun GVB-8PB-48V-WP. I’m guessing there is a 72-cell version. 


Thank you,

Maverick


> On Apr 12, 2021, at 12:43 PM, Jason Szumlanski 
>  wrote:
> 
> 
> I want to charge a 51.2V LiPO battery with a single 420W 72-cell module. Vmp 
> is 40.14V. 
> 
> It's one of those situations where I just need a lot of battery capacity as a 
> backup for a specified time period, but it doesn't matter how long it takes 
> to charge it back up. And I have space for exactly one 72-cell module.
> 
> It's going to be a Victron inverter. I'm not sure if they make a DC-DC 
> solution for this charging scenario or if there is another way to accomplish 
> it without too much cost and complexity. I was half-heartedly thinking about 
> an AC coupled microinverter, but that has drawbacks in terms of efficiency I 
> think. Maybe that's not any worse than DC-DC conversion - I'm not sure. AC 
> Coupling would probably be cheaper and easier. Monitoring might be 
> difficult/limited. And AC coupling would require that the inverter be on 
> (inverting) which isn't ideal for this situation either.
> 
> Thanks in advance,
> 
> Jason Szumlanski
> Florida Solar Design Group
> 
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Charging 48V Battery with One Module

[Mac Lewis]

There is a company called Genasun that I believe makes a boost solar charge
controller to do this.  They are in the marine world and I haven't poured
over their specs but they are worth checking out.

Try looking at
Genasun GVB-8-Li
Good Luck!


On Mon, Apr 12, 2021 at 11:43 AM Jason Szumlanski <
ja...@floridasolardesigngroup.com> wrote:

> I want to charge a 51.2V LiPO battery with a single 420W 72-cell module.
> Vmp is 40.14V.
>
> It's one of those situations where I just need a lot of battery capacity
> as a backup for a specified time period, but it doesn't matter how long it
> takes to charge it back up. And I have space for exactly one 72-cell module.
>
> It's going to be a Victron inverter. I'm not sure if they make a DC-DC
> solution for this charging scenario or if there is another way to
> accomplish it without too much cost and complexity. I was half-heartedly
> thinking about an AC coupled microinverter, but that has drawbacks in terms
> of efficiency I think. Maybe that's not any worse than DC-DC conversion -
> I'm not sure. AC Coupling would probably be cheaper and easier. Monitoring
> might be difficult/limited. And AC coupling would require that the inverter
> be on (inverting) which isn't ideal for this situation either.
>
> Thanks in advance,
>
> Jason Szumlanski
> Florida Solar Design Group
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-- 



Mac Lewis

*"Yo solo sé que no sé nada." -Sócrates*
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[RE-wrenches] Charging 48V Battery with One Module

[Jason Szumlanski]

I want to charge a 51.2V LiPO battery with a single 420W 72-cell module.
Vmp is 40.14V.

It's one of those situations where I just need a lot of battery capacity as
a backup for a specified time period, but it doesn't matter how long it
takes to charge it back up. And I have space for exactly one 72-cell module.

It's going to be a Victron inverter. I'm not sure if they make a DC-DC
solution for this charging scenario or if there is another way to
accomplish it without too much cost and complexity. I was half-heartedly
thinking about an AC coupled microinverter, but that has drawbacks in terms
of efficiency I think. Maybe that's not any worse than DC-DC conversion -
I'm not sure. AC Coupling would probably be cheaper and easier. Monitoring
might be difficult/limited. And AC coupling would require that the inverter
be on (inverting) which isn't ideal for this situation either.

Thanks in advance,

Jason Szumlanski
Florida Solar Design Group
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Monitoring large PV systems

[Steven Lawrence]

William,

I've used a lot of services from Fat Spaniel, SolarMagic, Draker, Noveda,
AlsoEnergy, Locus, Qantum, Powerfactors, and Green Power Monitoring. Which
one is the best is highly dependent upon your preferences and what services
you require.  I prefer AlsoEnergy for numerous reasons, one being
customized graphs.  I download irradiance, ambient temperature, and wind
speed for ASTM tests and various time intervals.  Also includes calibration
certificates stored in the platform so it's easy to download.  They're
flexible on what pyranometers you need (Class A, B, or C from various
vendors), and can monitor some other items like a SEL 651R.  However, Also
is getting onto the pricier end and their front end proposal group is a bit
of a mess right now.  Their online platform is very powerful but I can see
it be overwhelming for someone not familiar with it.

I've seen a lot of companies move towards Green Power Monitoring and
Qantum.  GPM is very inexpensive and basic and easy to use.  Their online
platform is nowhere near as powerful as some of the others though, but if
you want no frills monitoring, you can look here.  Qantum is a lot more
flexible in terms of equipment then GPM and their online platform is more
powerful than GPM, but Qantum's platform is very, very slow and kind of
clunky.  I don't have pricing handy so i can't comment on Qantum's pricing.

You can still get Locus, but since Locus is owned by AlsoEnergy, I
recommend you just go with Also.

All of them will give you  pre-wired boxes so you just have to mount and
hook up.


> Friends:
>
>
>
> We are starting to work on larger grid-tied systems (500kW) and I am trying
> to school myself on some of the aspects.  Monitoring is the subject at
> hand.
>
>
>
> One such system uses AlsoEnergy hardware on the PowerTrack online
> platform.  There is also a VistaWatt service that is involved that looks
> like it is simply an analytics service.
>
>
>
> Have I correctly categorized the above entities?  Does anyone have
> experience with any of the above that might offer some insight as to the
> pros and cons of these services?  Anyone have any documentation on the
> hardware?
>
>
>
> Thanks in advance!
>
>
>
> William Miller
>
>
>
> Miller Solar
>
> 17395 Oak Road, Atascadero, CA 93422
>
> 805-438-5600
>
> www.millersolar.com
>
> CA Lic. 773985
>
>
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