Re: [RE-wrenches] commercial BESS possibilities

[Jerry Shafer]

Blue planet got a 277/480 solution

On Wed, Jun 30, 2021, 1:13 PM Marco Mangelsdorf  wrote:

> Aloha all,
>
> I need to get better educated and see what's currently out there as far as
> battery storage in the 120/208 and 277/480 variety in the 100 kWh to one
> MWh range.
>
> Any suggestions and recommendations would be appreciated.
>
> Mahalo,
> marco
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Charging a 108V battery bank

[Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar]

If the boat is insured or is going to leave US waters and hopes to be
insured, better CYA it and check this out. NMEA may be of help also.
https://www.nmea.org/content/STANDARDS/nmea_2000_certified_products 

We
did Marine electronics on the side and cruised our sailboat for a decade.
It was great until we lost insurance and then learned to live with it. It
got good again. Same thing now with offgrid and wildfires. Whatever I get
into ends up with loss of insurance. Good Luck !  
Dave Angelini Offgrid
Solar
"we go where powerlines don't"
http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/
[1]
e-mail offgridso...@sti.net [2]
text 209 813 0060

On Wed, 30 Jun 2021
15:50:15 -0400, Dave Tedeyan  wrote:  Hi All,   I am going to be working
with someone who plans to completely electrify a boat. The electric motor
is meant to run on nine 12V batteries, or 108V. The motor manufacturer
recommends a charger that can run on 120V or 240V. But has anyone seen a
charger that can take solar power and directly charge a battery bank of
108V? The alternative that I see here is to have two separate battery
banks, one for the motor, and one for house loads. Then we would have the
solar charge a 48V battery bank, and then use an inverter to charge the
108V battery bank. It seems inefficient, although that may be the only
choice.   A separate but related question: what is special about a marine
inverter? If there is a 5kw charger for the battery bank, we will need a
large inverter to handle this plus other AC loads, and I am not sure if
there are "marine" inverters this large. And so other than concerns about
getting wet, is there harm to putting a Radian, or a Sol-Ark on a boat?  
Cheers, Dave   -- 

 [3]

 Dave Tedeyan, P.E.
Owner | Sungineer Solar


p: he | him | his
a: 1653 Slaterville Rd. | Ithaca, NY 14850
w:
www.sungineersolar.com [4]
c: (607) 288-2898 

   

Links:
--
[1]
http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/
[2] mailto:offgridso...@sti.net
[3]
https://www.sungineersolar.com/
[4] http://www.sungineersolar.com/
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Charging a 108V battery bank

[b...@midnitesolar.com]

If you can't find a single compatible charger, what also works it to use 
2 (two) separate


MPPT charge controllers each with a separate PV array inputs and connect 
each CC's
battery to half of the battery bank.  This has worked fine for both OB 
and MNS controllers
in past years and should with others as well I would imagine.  Set each 
for slightly higher

voltage than 48V of course.

One thing you may not be able to do might be connecting the chassis 
grounds together
depending on how those grounds are tied to the battery negative and 
positive lines internally.


Sometimes the internal SPD MOVs can get in the way if their voltage 
isn't high enough to handle
the two PV voltages that are seen as in series from the MOV's 
standpoint.  But those MOVs are
usually sized voltage wise to handle much higher voltage than, say, 300V 
which would he the maximum

voltage both CC's would see for 150V max input controllers.

You also cannot use the same remote controllers if they are not isolated 
from battery minus except for

the controller that is on the bottom side of the battery bank.

I have seen this method used many times now for 120V battery banks and 
also for higher voltage
electric boats.   There is quite a bit of this kind of wiring out there 
as I remember.


There are some other standards for marine inverters like,  UL 458 marine 
supplement and ABYC ratings.


This includes neutral ground switching like in mobile apps too IIRC.

Of course, just adding the word "marine" has to increase the price not 
matter what the product is.



boB



On 6/30/2021 12:50 PM, Dave Tedeyan wrote:

Hi All,

I am going to be working with someone who plans to completely 
electrify a boat. The electric motor is meant to run on nine 12V 
batteries, or 108V. The motor manufacturer recommends a charger that 
can run on 120V or 240V. But has anyone seen a charger that can take 
solar power and directly charge a battery bank of 108V? The 
alternative that I see here is to have two separate battery banks, one 
for the motor, and one for house loads. Then we would have the solar 
charge a 48V battery bank, and then use an inverter to charge the 108V 
battery bank. It seems inefficient, although that may be the only choice.


A separate but related question: what is special about a marine 
inverter? If there is a 5kw charger for the battery bank, we will need 
a large inverter to handle this plus other AC loads, and I am not sure 
if there are "marine" inverters this large. And so other than concerns 
about getting wet, is there harm to putting a Radian, or a Sol-Ark on 
a boat?


Cheers,
Dave

--
Logo 
Dave Tedeyan, P.E.
Owner | Sungineer Solar
p: he | him | his
a: 1653 Slaterville Rd. | Ithaca, NY 14850
w: www.sungineersolar.com 
c: (607) 288-2898


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Re: [RE-wrenches] Charging a 108V battery bank

[Lloyd Hoffstatter]

Dave, this forum discussion should be helpful 
https://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/f14/differences-in-marine-and-rv-inverters-chargers-38195.html

Best regards,
Lloyd

Lloyd Hoffstatter
Sunstruck Consulting
945-657-8132

Get Outlook for iOS

From: RE-wrenches  on behalf of Dave 
Tedeyan 
Sent: Wednesday, June 30, 2021 3:50:15 PM
To: RE-wrenches 
Subject: [RE-wrenches] Charging a 108V battery bank

Hi All,

I am going to be working with someone who plans to completely electrify a boat. 
The electric motor is meant to run on nine 12V batteries, or 108V. The motor 
manufacturer recommends a charger that can run on 120V or 240V. But has anyone 
seen a charger that can take solar power and directly charge a battery bank of 
108V? The alternative that I see here is to have two separate battery banks, 
one for the motor, and one for house loads. Then we would have the solar charge 
a 48V battery bank, and then use an inverter to charge the 108V battery bank. 
It seems inefficient, although that may be the only choice.

A separate but related question: what is special about a marine inverter? If 
there is a 5kw charger for the battery bank, we will need a large inverter to 
handle this plus other AC loads, and I am not sure if there are "marine" 
inverters this large. And so other than concerns about getting wet, is there 
harm to putting a Radian, or a Sol-Ark on a boat?

Cheers,
Dave

--
[Logo]
Dave Tedeyan, P.E.
Owner | Sungineer Solar
p: he | him | his
a: 1653 Slaterville Rd. | Ithaca, NY 14850
w: www.sungineersolar.com
c: (607) 288-2898
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[RE-wrenches] commercial BESS possibilities

[Marco Mangelsdorf]

Aloha all,

I need to get better educated and see what's currently out there as far as
battery storage in the 120/208 and 277/480 variety in the 100 kWh to one
MWh range.

Any suggestions and recommendations would be appreciated.

Mahalo,
marco
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Re: [RE-wrenches] XW PRO/AC Hydro

[jay]

HI All

I”ve worked with many high voltage AC hydros and a few AC direct.  Having a 2kw 
one is really small, and I can see why there were issues.

I recommend doing it this way,.  

1. install a XW 600v controller. 
2. take the output of the hydro after all safety/regulation controls and 
rectify it and feed it into the CC.
3. set the CC max charge rate to a bit below the output of the hydro. That way 
the hydro regulation will work normally. 
As the hydro output lowers due to lower water flows, you will have to adjust 
the CC output.  With an AC  direct hydro there is usually a failsafe device 
which interrupts the water flow ( flow diverter) if the HZ get too low, so you 
really don’t want that to happen.  
My concern with going through the inverter as the charger is much lower 
efficiency and its not as fine adjustment as the CC leading to lower outputs 
and more potential issues. 
4. The xanbus /battery will comm with the CC for regulation, as it turns down 
the CC, the hydro regulation will reduce output with its dump loads, all normal.

5. and it leaves both inverters for normal use. 

jay

peltz power



> On Jun 29, 2021, at 5:40 PM, Jerry Shafer  wrote:
> 
> I bet if you thought a little harder, you could get it even more complicated. 
> If the hydro has both freq and voltage control then look at a dumb charger. 
> Keeping it all independent will be safest. On the other hand l used an 
> outback and connected a wind turbine to the AC in and the inverter just used 
> it first. I set the max input amps and it worked and the inverter picked up 
> the rest, l did have a water heater as a dump and it would pop the t 
> sometimes. I dont know how well if at all the voltage is regulated on your 
> controller  and It can get complicated.
> Jerry
> 
> On Tue, Jun 29, 2021, 12:49 PM Michael Morningstar  > wrote:
> Will this work?
> 
>A friend has an off-grid property that is served by a Canyon Industries AC 
> turbine w/ T controller. Output is around 2kw. Of course, no surge capacity 
> there. He has recently moved there full time and is Vrbo’ing one of the 
> cabins so power needs have increased.
> 
>   What I have done previously in these situations with low Kw AC turbines is 
> install a battery based system and Iota chargers that are powered from the 
> turbine. That’s always worked well, BUT now that we are disciples of the 
> Discover AES/XW pairing I thought I would try this: 
> 
> 1) Connect the turbine’s output to AC2 and use Gen Support to enable loads 
> above 2kw or surges. That’s placing a lot of faith in Gen Support, and if it 
> were to not respond quick enough, well …trouble. The site is six hours away.
> 
> Then my friend tells me that he would like to throttle the turbine down 
> during the summer to conserve water, reducing output to .5-1kw. So, I got to 
> thinking:
> 
> 2) One inverter for charging only. One inverter for power output only. 
> Charging inverter communicates with AES through Xanbus and is connected to a 
> Gateway/Insight so that I can remotely adjust AC2 input current to scale with 
> seasonal turbine fluctuations. Neither inverter is Synced or knows of the 
> other’s existence. Output inverter gets a SCP for basic control   and 
> monitoring. Battery bank is connected to a Discover SOC monitor.
> 
> I guess my questions are: Do you see any problems with this arrangement? 
> Would having what amounts to an external load (the output generator) trip 
> things up since it’s not communicating w/ the batteries? Could/Should I 
> include the output inverter in the Xanbus loop? And/Or can I connect the 
> output inverter to the Gateway device since it has two inputs,
> Xanbus 1 and 2.
> 
> I’ve tried to reach Schneider to speak about this to no avail. Great product, 
> not so great support.
> 
> Thanks in Advance,
> Michael
> 
>   
> 
> 
>   Michael Morningstar
> 
>   Morningstar Electric
>   PO Box 1494
>   Mount Shasta, California 96067
>   530-921-0560
>   CSLB 949635
>  
>   
> 
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