Re: [RE-wrenches] Sol-Ark 15k

[Darryl Thayer via RE-wrenches]

The tap rule says you can reduce to 10% of the nominal size for 10 feet and
protect at the downstream OCPD or 25% for 25 feet for solar with multiple
sources see 705

On Sat, Apr 16, 2022 at 9:16 PM Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches <
re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:

> That's what I'm thinking. You would need to use a 200A conductor to a
> separate load out OCPD before downsizing the wire. I guess there are pros
> and cons, but it seems this is geared toward whole house backup for 200A
> services. I'm eager to get an opportunity to use it in that scenario.
>
> Jason
>
>
>
>
> On Sat, Apr 16, 2022, 10:06 PM Chris Sparadeo via RE-wrenches <
> re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:
>
>> Jason,
>>
>> Any additional OCPD downstream of the 200A load output breaker could
>> allow for a smaller wire size to be used at these terminals. For example,
>> load output conductors run to a 100A main breaker panel board.  Obviously
>> depending on circumstances, a #4 copper could fit the bill.
>>
>> What I’m not extremely  excited about with the new design is that in an
>> off-grid scenario with a generator and smart load, we would now need to
>> integrate an AC disconnect for generator input (grid)  and either a fused
>> disconnect or loads panel for any smart load output. With the 12K unit, the
>> integrated breakers help cut down on BOS and install time.
>>
>> -Chris
>>
>> On Sat, Apr 16, 2022 at 5:35 PM Darryl Thayer via RE-wrenches <
>> re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:
>>
>>> Hello, The overcurrent device is to protect the conductors.  you can put
>>> any size wire, but you must protect with the overcurrent device.  REmember
>>> in solar equipment; you may have more than one supply source.  The DC best
>>> example is solar modules connected in parallel,  on
>>>
>>> On Fri, Apr 15, 2022 at 8:26 PM Jerry Shafer via RE-wrenches <
>>> re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:
>>>
 You must meet all expected source output potentials within the design
 and operating limits, as long as the distribution panel and connected
 wiring is rated for the max output of the protected source then you are
 good. A 200 ATS connected to a 10 kW genny does not require 2/0 as it will
 never meet that rating. Just remember its whatever the max output can be
 plus your margin.

 On Fri, Apr 15, 2022, 5:44 PM Chris Sparadeo via RE-wrenches <
 re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:

> Hi Jason,
>
> You bring up a valid point….in an off-grid scenario with the 15k do
> you size the conductors to the continuous capacity, surge capacity or the
> OCPD of the unit?
>
> -Chris
>
> On Fri, Apr 15, 2022 at 4:01 PM Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches <
> re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:
>
>> P.S. ICYMI, this inverter has a massive combined AC coupled and DC
>> coupled capacity. They allow 15kWdc plus 19.2kWac!!! Impressive.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Apr 15, 2022 at 10:59 AM Jason Szumlanski <
>> ja...@floridasolardesigngroup.com> wrote:
>>
>>> I'm not following the wiring diagrams for this new inverter. It has
>>> 200A pass-through capability with an integrated 200A load disconnect. 
>>> But
>>> then it says the wire gauge for the load out wiring can be #4 to 2/0.
>>>
>>> In an off-grid scenario where there is no generator, the max
>>> continuous output is 62.5A, so I assume 80A circuit protection could be
>>> used with 80A rated wire (#4), but how is that circuit protection
>>> implemented if the 200A breaker is integrated? Do you have to run a 
>>> short
>>> piece of 2/0 to an external 80A rated OCPD and then step down to #4?
>>>
>>> Jason Szumlanski
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ___
>>
>
>> ___
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Sol-Ark 15k

[Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches]

But this isn't a tap. It's a feeder conductor connected to an OCPD.

I guess if you don't have a grid in or generator in or AC Coupled PV, you
could just call it an inverter output circuit and it could be sized
accordingly. But it would still need to be protected at it's source by an
appropriately rated OCPD. Don't get me wrong... I don't think there is a
real safety issue here, but I also don't see how the NEC allows the
conductor to be sized for anything less than 200A.

Jason


On Sun, Apr 17, 2022, 11:29 AM Darryl Thayer via RE-wrenches <
re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:

> The tap rule says you can reduce to 10% of the nominal size for 10 feet
> and protect at the downstream OCPD or 25% for 25 feet for solar with
> multiple sources see 705
>
> On Sat, Apr 16, 2022 at 9:16 PM Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches <
> re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:
>
>> That's what I'm thinking. You would need to use a 200A conductor to a
>> separate load out OCPD before downsizing the wire. I guess there are pros
>> and cons, but it seems this is geared toward whole house backup for 200A
>> services. I'm eager to get an opportunity to use it in that scenario.
>>
>> Jason
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Sat, Apr 16, 2022, 10:06 PM Chris Sparadeo via RE-wrenches <
>> re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:
>>
>>> Jason,
>>>
>>> Any additional OCPD downstream of the 200A load output breaker could
>>> allow for a smaller wire size to be used at these terminals. For example,
>>> load output conductors run to a 100A main breaker panel board.  Obviously
>>> depending on circumstances, a #4 copper could fit the bill.
>>>
>>> What I’m not extremely  excited about with the new design is that in an
>>> off-grid scenario with a generator and smart load, we would now need to
>>> integrate an AC disconnect for generator input (grid)  and either a fused
>>> disconnect or loads panel for any smart load output. With the 12K unit, the
>>> integrated breakers help cut down on BOS and install time.
>>>
>>> -Chris
>>>
>>> On Sat, Apr 16, 2022 at 5:35 PM Darryl Thayer via RE-wrenches <
>>> re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:
>>>
 Hello, The overcurrent device is to protect the conductors.  you can
 put any size wire, but you must protect with the overcurrent device.
 REmember in solar equipment; you may have more than one supply source.  The
 DC best example is solar modules connected in parallel,  on

 On Fri, Apr 15, 2022 at 8:26 PM Jerry Shafer via RE-wrenches <
 re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:

> You must meet all expected source output potentials within the design
> and operating limits, as long as the distribution panel and connected
> wiring is rated for the max output of the protected source then you are
> good. A 200 ATS connected to a 10 kW genny does not require 2/0 as it will
> never meet that rating. Just remember its whatever the max output can be
> plus your margin.
>
> On Fri, Apr 15, 2022, 5:44 PM Chris Sparadeo via RE-wrenches <
> re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:
>
>> Hi Jason,
>>
>> You bring up a valid point….in an off-grid scenario with the 15k do
>> you size the conductors to the continuous capacity, surge capacity or the
>> OCPD of the unit?
>>
>> -Chris
>>
>> On Fri, Apr 15, 2022 at 4:01 PM Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches <
>> re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:
>>
>>> P.S. ICYMI, this inverter has a massive combined AC coupled and DC
>>> coupled capacity. They allow 15kWdc plus 19.2kWac!!! Impressive.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Fri, Apr 15, 2022 at 10:59 AM Jason Szumlanski <
>>> ja...@floridasolardesigngroup.com> wrote:
>>>
 I'm not following the wiring diagrams for this new inverter. It has
 200A pass-through capability with an integrated 200A load disconnect. 
 But
 then it says the wire gauge for the load out wiring can be #4 to 2/0.

 In an off-grid scenario where there is no generator, the max
 continuous output is 62.5A, so I assume 80A circuit protection could be
 used with 80A rated wire (#4), but how is that circuit protection
 implemented if the 200A breaker is integrated? Do you have to run a 
 short
 piece of 2/0 to an external 80A rated OCPD and then step down to #4?

 Jason Szumlanski





 ___
>>>
>>
>>> ___
>>
>
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Is There an "Off-grid" (i.e. constant voltage) Version of Microinverters?

[petertor--- via RE-wrenches]

 
 
  
   This is great information folks. It looks like Cybo has most of the load scenarios covered. 
  
  
   
  
  
   I have one last question before I call them on Monday morning: "Do the Cybo inverters support LiFePO4 batteries? That is, does one of their four DC inputs not only auto-detect batteries but does it recognize LiFePO4 vs. PbAcid? It is my understanding that LiFePO4 batteries need a different charging cycle compared to PbAcid to attain a 100% SOC.
  
  
   
  
  
   - Peter
  
  
   
  
  
   Peter T. Parrish, Ph.D.
   President, California Solar Engineering
   1107 Fair Oaks Blvd Ste. 351
   South Pasadena, CA 91030
   (323) 839-6108
  
  
   
  
  
   
On 04/16/2022 3:59 PM Darryl Thayer via RE-wrenches  wrote:
   
   

   
   

   
   

 yes, there are three versions of the cybo inverter, the one that I a most familiar with produced a 60 HZ AC signal; the voltage did not exceed 120 volts or 240 volts.  The voltage out times the current out was equal to the voltage in times current in.  This allowed me to operate a resistance load, like a water heater. 

   
   
   

 On Sat, Apr 16, 2022 at 2:39 PM Glenn Burt via RE-wrenches  wrote:
 


 
  
   
Take a look at Cybo inverters
   
   

   
   

 -Glenn


 Sent from my 'smart'phone, so please excuse typos and spelling errors.

   
  
  
   

 


 -- Original message--


 From: petertor--- via RE-wrenches


 Date: Sat, Apr 16, 2022 12:49 PM


 To: re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org;


 Cc: peter...@pobox.com;


 Subject:[RE-wrenches] Is There an "Off-grid" (i.e. constant voltage) Version of Microinverters?


 

   
   

 It has been a while since I installed a PV system, so I apologize in advance for my ignorance wrt product availability. 


 


 I recently had need for the off-grid equivalent of a grid-tied microinverter. I have an assortment of new and not so new PV modules such as the Solaria mono, 400 Wp and the Jinko poly, 310 Wp. I would like a microinverter that makes available 120 Vac (or 240 Vac but 120 is preferable), 60 Hz. I would then take the output of these microinverters and combine them in a subpanel. I do not have a need for battery storage.


 


 I can explain more about the application to anyone who has an interest.


 


 Does such an component exist?


 


 Thanks in advance for any help.


 


 - Peter


 Peter T. Parrish, Ph.D.President, California Solar Engineering1107 Fair Oaks Blvd Ste. 351South Pasadena, CA 91030(323) 839-6108

   
  
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   ___ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/ http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: http://www.members.re-wrenches.org
  
  
   
  
  
   Peter T. Parrish, Ph.D.President, SolarGnosis1107 Fair Oaks Blvd Ste. 351South Pasadena, CA 91030(323) 839-6108
  
 

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Re: [RE-wrenches] Is There an "Off-grid" (i.e. constant voltage) Version of Microinverters?

[Kirk Herander via RE-wrenches]

Cybo is quite interesting. Makes me want to change my refusal to install
solar DHW anymore.

On Sun, Apr 17, 2022 at 12:16 PM petertor--- via RE-wrenches <
re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:

> This is great information folks. It looks like Cybo has most of the load
> scenarios covered.
>
> I have one last question before I call them on Monday morning: "Do the
> Cybo inverters support LiFePO4 batteries? That is, does one of their four
> DC inputs not only auto-detect batteries but does it recognize LiFePO4 vs.
> PbAcid? It is my understanding that LiFePO4 batteries need a different
> charging cycle compared to PbAcid to attain a 100% SOC.
>
> - Peter
>
> Peter T. Parrish, Ph.D.
> President, California Solar Engineering
> 1107 Fair Oaks Blvd Ste. 351
> South Pasadena, CA 91030
> (323) 839-6108
>
> On 04/16/2022 3:59 PM Darryl Thayer via RE-wrenches <
> re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:
>
>
> yes, there are three versions of the cybo inverter, the one that I a most
> familiar with produced a 60 HZ AC signal; the voltage did not exceed 120
> volts or 240 volts.  The voltage out times the current out was equal to the
> voltage in times current in.  This allowed me to operate a resistance load,
> like a water heater.
>
> On Sat, Apr 16, 2022 at 2:39 PM Glenn Burt via RE-wrenches <
> re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:
>
> Take a look at Cybo inverters
>
> -Glenn
> Sent from my 'smart'phone, so please excuse typos and spelling errors.
>
> -- Original message--
> *From: *petertor--- via RE-wrenches
> *Date: *Sat, Apr 16, 2022 12:49 PM
> *To: *re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org;
> *Cc: *peter...@pobox.com;
> *Subject:*[RE-wrenches] Is There an "Off-grid" (i.e. constant voltage)
> Version of Microinverters?
>
> It has been a while since I installed a PV system, so I apologize in
> advance for my ignorance wrt product availability.
>
> I recently had need for the off-grid equivalent of a grid-tied
> microinverter. I have an assortment of new and not so new PV modules such
> as the Solaria mono, 400 Wp and the Jinko poly, 310 Wp. I would like a
> microinverter that makes available 120 Vac (or 240 Vac but 120 is
> preferable), 60 Hz. I would then take the output of these microinverters
> and combine them in a subpanel. I do not have a need for battery storage.
>
> I can explain more about the application to anyone who has an interest.
>
> Does such an component exist?
>
> Thanks in advance for any help.
>
> - Peter
>
> Peter T. Parrish, Ph.D.
> President, California Solar Engineering
> 1107 Fair Oaks Blvd Ste. 351
> South Pasadena, CA 91030
> (323) 839-6108
> ___
> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance
>
> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org
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>
> Change listserver email address & settings:
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> other:
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> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org
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> Alliance Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org List
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> update participant bios: http://www.members.re-wrenches.org
>
>
> Peter T. Parrish, Ph.D.
> President, SolarGnosis
> 1107 Fair Oaks Blvd Ste. 351
> South Pasadena, CA 91030
> (323) 839-6108
> ___
> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance
>
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>

-- 

*Kirk Herander / **kirkh@vermont.solar *

*Owner|Principal, VT Solar, LLC*

*Celebrating our 31st Anniversary 1991-2022!!*

*www.vermont.solar*

Re: [RE-wrenches] Is There an "Off-grid" (i.e. constant voltage) Version of Microinverters?

[Darryl Thayer via RE-wrenches]

I presented a paper several years ago outlining a similar system using one
thermal water heater and comparing it to a PV-based system.  In my tests,
the PV-system outperformed the solar thermal system in energy per square
foot of collector.  There were sometime the Solar Thermal would out
perform at midday and bright sun.  But not for the whole day the PV system
would always win.  The trick was operation of the thermostat, the Cybro
made it possible to use the normal switch.  The other method for switching
was a capacitor across the terminals.

On Sun, Apr 17, 2022 at 1:09 PM Kirk Herander via RE-wrenches <
re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:

> Cybo is quite interesting. Makes me want to change my refusal to install
> solar DHW anymore.
>
> On Sun, Apr 17, 2022 at 12:16 PM petertor--- via RE-wrenches <
> re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:
>
>> This is great information folks. It looks like Cybo has most of the load
>> scenarios covered.
>>
>> I have one last question before I call them on Monday morning: "Do the
>> Cybo inverters support LiFePO4 batteries? That is, does one of their four
>> DC inputs not only auto-detect batteries but does it recognize LiFePO4 vs.
>> PbAcid? It is my understanding that LiFePO4 batteries need a different
>> charging cycle compared to PbAcid to attain a 100% SOC.
>>
>> - Peter
>>
>> Peter T. Parrish, Ph.D.
>> President, California Solar Engineering
>> 1107 Fair Oaks Blvd Ste. 351
>> South Pasadena, CA 91030
>> (323) 839-6108
>>
>> On 04/16/2022 3:59 PM Darryl Thayer via RE-wrenches <
>> re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:
>>
>>
>> yes, there are three versions of the cybo inverter, the one that I a most
>> familiar with produced a 60 HZ AC signal; the voltage did not exceed 120
>> volts or 240 volts.  The voltage out times the current out was equal to the
>> voltage in times current in.  This allowed me to operate a resistance load,
>> like a water heater.
>>
>> On Sat, Apr 16, 2022 at 2:39 PM Glenn Burt via RE-wrenches <
>> re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:
>>
>> Take a look at Cybo inverters
>>
>> -Glenn
>> Sent from my 'smart'phone, so please excuse typos and spelling errors.
>>
>> -- Original message--
>> *From: *petertor--- via RE-wrenches
>> *Date: *Sat, Apr 16, 2022 12:49 PM
>> *To: *re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org;
>> *Cc: *peter...@pobox.com;
>> *Subject:*[RE-wrenches] Is There an "Off-grid" (i.e. constant voltage)
>> Version of Microinverters?
>>
>> It has been a while since I installed a PV system, so I apologize in
>> advance for my ignorance wrt product availability.
>>
>> I recently had need for the off-grid equivalent of a grid-tied
>> microinverter. I have an assortment of new and not so new PV modules such
>> as the Solaria mono, 400 Wp and the Jinko poly, 310 Wp. I would like a
>> microinverter that makes available 120 Vac (or 240 Vac but 120 is
>> preferable), 60 Hz. I would then take the output of these microinverters
>> and combine them in a subpanel. I do not have a need for battery storage.
>>
>> I can explain more about the application to anyone who has an interest.
>>
>> Does such an component exist?
>>
>> Thanks in advance for any help.
>>
>> - Peter
>>
>> Peter T. Parrish, Ph.D.
>> President, California Solar Engineering
>> 1107 Fair Oaks Blvd Ste. 351
>> South Pasadena, CA 91030
>> (323) 839-6108
>> ___
>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance
>>
>> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org
>>
>> List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org
>>
>> Change listserver email address & settings:
>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
>>
>> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the
>> other:
>> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/
>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
>>
>> List rules & etiquette:
>> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm
>>
>> Check out or update participant bios:
>> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org
>>
>> ___ List sponsored by Redwood
>> Alliance Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org List
>> Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email
>> address & settings:
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>> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the
>> other: https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/
>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List
>> rules & etiquette: http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or
>> update participant bios: http://www.members.re-wrenches.org
>>
>>
>> Peter T. Parrish, Ph.D.
>> President, SolarGnosis
>> 1107 Fair Oaks Blvd Ste. 351
>> South Pasadena, CA 91030
>> (323) 839-6108
>> ___
>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance
>>
>> Pay optional member dues

Re: [RE-wrenches] Is There an "Off-grid" (i.e. constant voltage) Version of Microinverters?

[Darryl Thayer via RE-wrenches]

Hi Peter, My Cybro experience was from maybe 10 years ago; at that time,
they did not have any 485 connection or Lithium connection.  If the Li
battery has a built-in BMS the Cybro has the standard charge profiles,  of
bulk, absorb, and float, I do not remember a refloat.  The

On Sun, Apr 17, 2022 at 11:16 AM petertor--- via RE-wrenches <
re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:

> This is great information folks. It looks like Cybo has most of the load
> scenarios covered.
>
> I have one last question before I call them on Monday morning: "Do the
> Cybo inverters support LiFePO4 batteries? That is, does one of their four
> DC inputs not only auto-detect batteries but does it recognize LiFePO4 vs.
> PbAcid? It is my understanding that LiFePO4 batteries need a different
> charging cycle compared to PbAcid to attain a 100% SOC.
>
> - Peter
>
> Peter T. Parrish, Ph.D.
> President, California Solar Engineering
> 1107 Fair Oaks Blvd Ste. 351
> South Pasadena, CA 91030
> (323) 839-6108
>
> On 04/16/2022 3:59 PM Darryl Thayer via RE-wrenches <
> re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:
>
>
> yes, there are three versions of the cybo inverter, the one that I a most
> familiar with produced a 60 HZ AC signal; the voltage did not exceed 120
> volts or 240 volts.  The voltage out times the current out was equal to the
> voltage in times current in.  This allowed me to operate a resistance load,
> like a water heater.
>
> On Sat, Apr 16, 2022 at 2:39 PM Glenn Burt via RE-wrenches <
> re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:
>
> Take a look at Cybo inverters
>
> -Glenn
> Sent from my 'smart'phone, so please excuse typos and spelling errors.
>
> -- Original message--
> *From: *petertor--- via RE-wrenches
> *Date: *Sat, Apr 16, 2022 12:49 PM
> *To: *re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org;
> *Cc: *peter...@pobox.com;
> *Subject:*[RE-wrenches] Is There an "Off-grid" (i.e. constant voltage)
> Version of Microinverters?
>
> It has been a while since I installed a PV system, so I apologize in
> advance for my ignorance wrt product availability.
>
> I recently had need for the off-grid equivalent of a grid-tied
> microinverter. I have an assortment of new and not so new PV modules such
> as the Solaria mono, 400 Wp and the Jinko poly, 310 Wp. I would like a
> microinverter that makes available 120 Vac (or 240 Vac but 120 is
> preferable), 60 Hz. I would then take the output of these microinverters
> and combine them in a subpanel. I do not have a need for battery storage.
>
> I can explain more about the application to anyone who has an interest.
>
> Does such an component exist?
>
> Thanks in advance for any help.
>
> - Peter
>
> Peter T. Parrish, Ph.D.
> President, California Solar Engineering
> 1107 Fair Oaks Blvd Ste. 351
> South Pasadena, CA 91030
> (323) 839-6108
> ___
> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance
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>
>
> Peter T. Parrish, Ph.D.
> President, SolarGnosis
> 1107 Fair Oaks Blvd Ste. 351
> South Pasadena, CA 91030
> (323) 839-6108
> ___
> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance
>
> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org
>
> List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org
>
> Change listserver email address & settings:
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_

Re: [RE-wrenches] Is There an "Off-grid" (i.e. constant voltage) Version of Microinverters?

[Kirk Herander via RE-wrenches]

I'd be curious if they have any type of online monitoring, at least for the
grie-tie versions.

On Sun, Apr 17, 2022 at 4:28 PM Darryl Thayer via RE-wrenches <
re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:

> Hi Peter, My Cybro experience was from maybe 10 years ago; at that time,
> they did not have any 485 connection or Lithium connection.  If the Li
> battery has a built-in BMS the Cybro has the standard charge profiles,  of
> bulk, absorb, and float, I do not remember a refloat.  The
>
> On Sun, Apr 17, 2022 at 11:16 AM petertor--- via RE-wrenches <
> re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:
>
>> This is great information folks. It looks like Cybo has most of the load
>> scenarios covered.
>>
>> I have one last question before I call them on Monday morning: "Do the
>> Cybo inverters support LiFePO4 batteries? That is, does one of their four
>> DC inputs not only auto-detect batteries but does it recognize LiFePO4 vs.
>> PbAcid? It is my understanding that LiFePO4 batteries need a different
>> charging cycle compared to PbAcid to attain a 100% SOC.
>>
>> - Peter
>>
>> Peter T. Parrish, Ph.D.
>> President, California Solar Engineering
>> 1107 Fair Oaks Blvd Ste. 351
>> South Pasadena, CA 91030
>> (323) 839-6108
>>
>> On 04/16/2022 3:59 PM Darryl Thayer via RE-wrenches <
>> re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:
>>
>>
>> yes, there are three versions of the cybo inverter, the one that I a most
>> familiar with produced a 60 HZ AC signal; the voltage did not exceed 120
>> volts or 240 volts.  The voltage out times the current out was equal to the
>> voltage in times current in.  This allowed me to operate a resistance load,
>> like a water heater.
>>
>> On Sat, Apr 16, 2022 at 2:39 PM Glenn Burt via RE-wrenches <
>> re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:
>>
>> Take a look at Cybo inverters
>>
>> -Glenn
>> Sent from my 'smart'phone, so please excuse typos and spelling errors.
>>
>> -- Original message--
>> *From: *petertor--- via RE-wrenches
>> *Date: *Sat, Apr 16, 2022 12:49 PM
>> *To: *re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org;
>> *Cc: *peter...@pobox.com;
>> *Subject:*[RE-wrenches] Is There an "Off-grid" (i.e. constant voltage)
>> Version of Microinverters?
>>
>> It has been a while since I installed a PV system, so I apologize in
>> advance for my ignorance wrt product availability.
>>
>> I recently had need for the off-grid equivalent of a grid-tied
>> microinverter. I have an assortment of new and not so new PV modules such
>> as the Solaria mono, 400 Wp and the Jinko poly, 310 Wp. I would like a
>> microinverter that makes available 120 Vac (or 240 Vac but 120 is
>> preferable), 60 Hz. I would then take the output of these microinverters
>> and combine them in a subpanel. I do not have a need for battery storage.
>>
>> I can explain more about the application to anyone who has an interest.
>>
>> Does such an component exist?
>>
>> Thanks in advance for any help.
>>
>> - Peter
>>
>> Peter T. Parrish, Ph.D.
>> President, California Solar Engineering
>> 1107 Fair Oaks Blvd Ste. 351
>> South Pasadena, CA 91030
>> (323) 839-6108
>> ___
>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance
>>
>> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org
>>
>> List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org
>>
>> Change listserver email address & settings:
>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
>>
>> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the
>> other:
>> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/
>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
>>
>> List rules & etiquette:
>> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm
>>
>> Check out or update participant bios:
>> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org
>>
>> ___ List sponsored by Redwood
>> Alliance Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org List
>> Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email
>> address & settings:
>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
>> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the
>> other: https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/
>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List
>> rules & etiquette: http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or
>> update participant bios: http://www.members.re-wrenches.org
>>
>>
>> Peter T. Parrish, Ph.D.
>> President, SolarGnosis
>> 1107 Fair Oaks Blvd Ste. 351
>> South Pasadena, CA 91030
>> (323) 839-6108
>> ___
>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance
>>
>> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org
>>
>> List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org
>>
>> Change listserver email address & settings:
>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
>>
>> There are two list archives for searching. When one d

Re: [RE-wrenches] Sol-Ark 15k

[Darryl Thayer via RE-wrenches]

Yes and no, I think this is a tap, "a tap shall be permitted anywhere along
a feeder"  ' as long as it is less than a 10-foot rule or 25-foot rule
ending in a listed OCPD with a rating sufficient to handle the maximum
overcurrent'.  Service equipment residential is rated for fault currents of
up to 10,000 amps withstand.Refer to 240.4.B and 240.21 (B) (1 & 2)

On Sun, Apr 17, 2022 at 10:39 AM Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches <
re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:

> But this isn't a tap. It's a feeder conductor connected to an OCPD.
>
> I guess if you don't have a grid in or generator in or AC Coupled PV, you
> could just call it an inverter output circuit and it could be sized
> accordingly. But it would still need to be protected at it's source by an
> appropriately rated OCPD. Don't get me wrong... I don't think there is a
> real safety issue here, but I also don't see how the NEC allows the
> conductor to be sized for anything less than 200A.
>
> Jason
>
>
> On Sun, Apr 17, 2022, 11:29 AM Darryl Thayer via RE-wrenches <
> re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:
>
>> The tap rule says you can reduce to 10% of the nominal size for 10 feet
>> and protect at the downstream OCPD or 25% for 25 feet for solar with
>> multiple sources see 705
>>
>> On Sat, Apr 16, 2022 at 9:16 PM Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches <
>> re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:
>>
>>> That's what I'm thinking. You would need to use a 200A conductor to a
>>> separate load out OCPD before downsizing the wire. I guess there are pros
>>> and cons, but it seems this is geared toward whole house backup for 200A
>>> services. I'm eager to get an opportunity to use it in that scenario.
>>>
>>> Jason
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sat, Apr 16, 2022, 10:06 PM Chris Sparadeo via RE-wrenches <
>>> re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:
>>>
 Jason,

 Any additional OCPD downstream of the 200A load output breaker could
 allow for a smaller wire size to be used at these terminals. For example,
 load output conductors run to a 100A main breaker panel board.  Obviously
 depending on circumstances, a #4 copper could fit the bill.

 What I’m not extremely  excited about with the new design is that in an
 off-grid scenario with a generator and smart load, we would now need to
 integrate an AC disconnect for generator input (grid)  and either a fused
 disconnect or loads panel for any smart load output. With the 12K unit, the
 integrated breakers help cut down on BOS and install time.

 -Chris

 On Sat, Apr 16, 2022 at 5:35 PM Darryl Thayer via RE-wrenches <
 re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:

> Hello, The overcurrent device is to protect the conductors.  you can
> put any size wire, but you must protect with the overcurrent device.
> REmember in solar equipment; you may have more than one supply source.  
> The
> DC best example is solar modules connected in parallel,  on
>
> On Fri, Apr 15, 2022 at 8:26 PM Jerry Shafer via RE-wrenches <
> re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:
>
>> You must meet all expected source output potentials within the design
>> and operating limits, as long as the distribution panel and connected
>> wiring is rated for the max output of the protected source then you are
>> good. A 200 ATS connected to a 10 kW genny does not require 2/0 as it 
>> will
>> never meet that rating. Just remember its whatever the max output can be
>> plus your margin.
>>
>> On Fri, Apr 15, 2022, 5:44 PM Chris Sparadeo via RE-wrenches <
>> re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:
>>
>>> Hi Jason,
>>>
>>> You bring up a valid point….in an off-grid scenario with the 15k do
>>> you size the conductors to the continuous capacity, surge capacity or 
>>> the
>>> OCPD of the unit?
>>>
>>> -Chris
>>>
>>> On Fri, Apr 15, 2022 at 4:01 PM Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches <
>>> re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:
>>>
 P.S. ICYMI, this inverter has a massive combined AC coupled and DC
 coupled capacity. They allow 15kWdc plus 19.2kWac!!! Impressive.






 On Fri, Apr 15, 2022 at 10:59 AM Jason Szumlanski <
 ja...@floridasolardesigngroup.com> wrote:

> I'm not following the wiring diagrams for this new inverter. It
> has 200A pass-through capability with an integrated 200A load 
> disconnect.
> But then it says the wire gauge for the load out wiring can be #4 to 
> 2/0.
>
> In an off-grid scenario where there is no generator, the max
> continuous output is 62.5A, so I assume 80A circuit protection could 
> be
> used with 80A rated wire (#4), but how is that circuit protection
> implemented if the 200A breaker is integrated? Do you have to run a 
> short
>