[RE-wrenches] IQ8 "line noise" issues?

[Lars Ortegren via RE-wrenches]

Seemingly out of the blue we've had a number of installs (all IQ8) that are
having Line Noise issues preventing the MIs from communicating from the
Envoy. In both of our recent installs they are not in neighborhoods that
have a number of systems, and the issue is not finding too many, but
finding very few to none .

Enphase has suggested purchasing a Q-LCF-064-1P line filter ($500), and I
wanted to see if this is something that is "more common" on the IQ8 that we
should plan on as part of our pricing. Any wrenches found cheaper
alternatives that work?

Lars

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Re: [RE-wrenches] IQ8 "line noise" issues?

[Jason Lord via RE-wrenches]

Hi Lars,

It is likely that the IQ8 micro's are more subject to line noise then 
previous models.  We've had line noise and comm's issues in the past 
with IQ 7's as well.  A cheap solution that we have had some success 
with is to put ferrite core snap together chokes around L1 and L2 PV 
input wiring.  You can get these at Radio Shack for about $6-8 a piece.  
This would be a much cheaper solution then the Enphase filter.   You can 
also try the solid core type, and your installers can just pass the 
conductors through them as they wire the combiner box.  You can also get 
much less expensive in line filters that are similar to the Enphase 
filter on Amazon for $20-50 a piece.  Good luck and happy solaring.


Jason Lord
Mendocino Solar Service


On 2022-10-27 8:21 am, Lars Ortegren via RE-wrenches wrote:

Seemingly out of the blue we've had a number of installs (all IQ8)
that are having Line Noise issues preventing the MIs from
communicating from the Envoy. In both of our recent installs they are
not in neighborhoods that have a number of systems, and the issue is
not finding too many, but finding very few to none .

Enphase has suggested purchasing a Q-LCF-064-1P line filter ($500),
and I wanted to see if this is something that is "more common" on the
IQ8 that we should plan on as part of our pricing. Any wrenches found
cheaper alternatives that work?

Lars

 [1]

Links:
--
[1] https://californiasolarco.com/quote/
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[RE-wrenches] Accuracy of Enphase consumption monitoring

[Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches]

I received this question from a non-client:

*On a daily basis, FPL [Florida Power and Light]  (per their app)
consistently shows a 20 to 40% (higher) difference in what they delivered
and received vs what Enphase app shows as imported and exported. My
installer can not explain why. Any ideas?*


Incidentally, I have noticed issues with this. The import and export
figures don't seem to match up. I'm wondering if it could be time zone
issues or just the accuracy or sampling frequency. Even over longer
timeframes the data does not line up with utility figures.

(Yes, all circuits are being monitored in these cases)

Any thoughts?

Jason Szumlanski
Florida Solar Design Group
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Re: [RE-wrenches] IQ8 "line noise" issues?

[Sam Haraldson via RE-wrenches]

> ...A cheap solution that we have had some success
> with is to put ferrite core snap together chokes around L1 and L2 PV

Lars,

If your company installs SMA Core1 inverters you'll find these ferrite
chokes inside every box of them in the bag with the amphenol connectors and
other miscellaneous parts.  I have a small collection of them for sites
where I don't need to use the choke on an ethernet cable inside the
inverter.

Cheers,
Sam Haraldson 
Installation & Service Manager



| o. (406) 551-6135








>
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Accuracy of Enphase consumption monitoring

[Kent via RE-wrenches]

Jason,

Since the difference is not a consistent percentage, I'd look at the 
consumption meter settings. Make sure that the solar energy is accounted 
for correctly: either included or not included with the consumption 
metering.


Kent Osterberg
Blue Mountain Solar


On 10/27/2022 8:59 AM, Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches wrote:

I received this question from a non-client:

/On a daily basis, FPL [Florida Power and Light]  (per their app)
consistently shows a 20 to 40% (higher) difference in what they
delivered and received vs what Enphase app shows as imported and
exported. My installer can not explain why. Any ideas?/


Incidentally, I have noticed issues with this. The import and export 
figures don't seem to match up. I'm wondering if it could be time zone 
issues or just the accuracy or sampling frequency. Even over longer 
timeframes the data does not line up with utility figures.


(Yes, all circuits are being monitored in these cases)

Any thoughts?

Jason Szumlanski
Florida Solar Design Group

*


*

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Re: [RE-wrenches] IQ8 "line noise" issues?

[Dan Fink via RE-wrenches]

Ferrite beads, cores and rings are NOT all the same. The RFI frequency
ranges they can suppress differ depending on the "mix" of powders used in
their manufacture. I carry a variety of them in my truck, some of each type
(ring, snap on core) and of Mix 31, 65 and 75. And a big cheap pack from
Amazon of unknown mix (even the seller didn't know) which seems to be
somewhere around Mix 43.

It's also important to identify both the source and the victim of the
RFI, as you can select ferrites to suppress either end or both. As in, is
there a noisy appliance in the house (something with a VF drive maybe?)
that's interfering with the microinverters, or are the microinverters
interfering with something in the house?

This document from Palomar Engineers goes into detail about the different
available ferrite mixes. These are ham radio folk, and they are very
helpful with tech support requests in diagnosing and mitigating RFI issues.

https://palomar-engineers.com/ferrite-products/ferrite-cores/ferrite-mix-selection

Dan Fink
Owner, Buckville Energy Consulting LLC
IREC Certified Instructor for PV and Small Wind Installation
NABCEP Certified PV System Inspector
NABCEP PV Associate
d anbo...@gmail.com
970-672-4342




On Thu, Oct 27, 2022 at 10:00 AM Jason Lord via RE-wrenches <
re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:

> Hi Lars,
>
> It is likely that the IQ8 micro's are more subject to line noise then
> previous models.  We've had line noise and comm's issues in the past
> with IQ 7's as well.  A cheap solution that we have had some success
> with is to put ferrite core snap together chokes around L1 and L2 PV
> input wiring.  You can get these at Radio Shack for about $6-8 a piece.
> This would be a much cheaper solution then the Enphase filter.   You can
> also try the solid core type, and your installers can just pass the
> conductors through them as they wire the combiner box.  You can also get
> much less expensive in line filters that are similar to the Enphase
> filter on Amazon for $20-50 a piece.  Good luck and happy solaring.
>
> Jason Lord
> Mendocino Solar Service
>
>
> On 2022-10-27 8:21 am, Lars Ortegren via RE-wrenches wrote:
> > Seemingly out of the blue we've had a number of installs (all IQ8)
> > that are having Line Noise issues preventing the MIs from
> > communicating from the Envoy. In both of our recent installs they are
> > not in neighborhoods that have a number of systems, and the issue is
> > not finding too many, but finding very few to none .
> >
> > Enphase has suggested purchasing a Q-LCF-064-1P line filter ($500),
> > and I wanted to see if this is something that is "more common" on the
> > IQ8 that we should plan on as part of our pricing. Any wrenches found
> > cheaper alternatives that work?
> >
> > Lars
> >
> >  [1]
> >
> > Links:
> > --
> > [1] https://californiasolarco.com/quote/
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Accuracy of Enphase consumption monitoring

[Louis Woofenden via RE-wrenches]

Hi Jason,

I went back and forth  bunch of times with Enphase in late 2020 or early 
2021 on this very issue. Maybe Nick can weigh in if my information is 
out of date, but what I found is that Enphase uses a 15 minute net data 
register for energy import/export in their Envoys system monitor, rather 
than properly recording imported and exported energy in separate 
registers. A strange engineering/software engineering choice!


What this means is that for any 15-minute period where there is both 
imports and exports, only the net import/export is reflected in the 
consumption monitoring.


For example, lets say a PV system is exporting 3,000 W above the base 
load of the house for the full 15-minute measurement period, but an air 
conditioner turns on drawing 7,000 W for 5 minutes (net import of 
4,000W). Real exported energy is 3,000 W for 10 minutes, or 500 Wh. Real 
imported energy is 4,000 W for 5 minutes, or 333.3 Wh. But Enphase is 
just going to show 166.7 Wh exported for that time period, not 
reflecting the imported energy.


So the only utility meter configuration where the Enphase consumption 
monitoring is actually accurate would be a meter that also uses a 
15-minute net register for imports/exports. Here in Arizona, all our 
utilities use revenue meters with separate two instantaneous 
accumulating registers for both import and export, so we have seen 
discrepancies similar to what you're seeing.


Back in 2020, I verified all this was the case by using eGauges on a 
couple of systems to measure import/export on a 1-second basis. If 
helpful, could dig back into that analysis--let me know off-list.


If the customer has access to hourly energy use data from their utility 
to compare, they'll see that the Enphase consumption data is accurate at 
night, when there is no exports, or for periods where the system is 
continually exporting energy for a 15-minute period.


We install Enphase pretty much exclusively, but it's still a bit of a 
thorn in my side that this hasn't been fixed, to my knowledge.


Best,

Louis Woofenden


Engineering Director/Owner
Net Zero Solar
945 W Silverlake Road, Tucson, AZ 85713
Arizona ROC #248710, 259756, 259521


Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches wrote on 10/27/22 8:59 AM:

I received this question from a non-client:

/On a daily basis, FPL [Florida Power and Light]  (per their app)
consistently shows a 20 to 40% (higher) difference in what they
delivered and received vs what Enphase app shows as imported and
exported. My installer can not explain why. Any ideas?/


Incidentally, I have noticed issues with this. The import and export 
figures don't seem to match up. I'm wondering if it could be time zone 
issues or just the accuracy or sampling frequency. Even over longer 
timeframes the data does not line up with utility figures.


(Yes, all circuits are being monitored in these cases)

Any thoughts?

Jason Szumlanski
Florida Solar Design Group

*


*


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