Re: [RE-wrenches] PV and EMP

[Ray Walters via RE-wrenches]

I'm not an EMP expert by any means, but I've dealt with quite a few 
lightning damaged systems.  Having a good connection to a low impedance 
grounding system (steel cased well, Ufer ground) is crucial.  I also 
have had fantastic luck with Midnite's MNSPD line.  Delta, not so much.


On 3/9/2023 12:39 PM, Starlight via RE-wrenches wrote:
Right Dave. The VooDoo of EMI filtering, lightning protection or EMP 
induced voltage reduction attempts are similar and governed by the 
inverse square law. How much energy and how close is it? You must 
properly reduce energy propagation _at every point._ I have seen very 
expensive protection systems with poor implementation making the 
entire scheme useless.  So, is the cost and effort worth the results? 
Study, then study more. It may be more cost effective to have a back 
part rather than spending money on an expensive preventative measure.


Larry Crutcher
Starlight Solar Power Systems



On Mar 9, 2023, at 11:18 AM, Marco Mangelsdorf via RE-wrenches 
 wrote:


Hmmm...I wonder how much SolArk is dreaming.
https://www.sol-ark.com/e-m-p/

On Thu, Mar 9, 2023 at 9:58 AM Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar via 
RE-wrenches  wrote:


Depends on how close and how strong the pulse or strike is. In Mil
satellites, the same thing. You can harden but are dreaming if you
think your electronics can really survive it. Even harder to
protect electronics that are powered on. The KH series spy sats I
saw schematics for had redundant systems that were off or rotated
I seem to remember. This was back in the 90's so very sketchy in
the fog of time.
For Offgrid, and High Rel power systems, a faraday cage for your
inverter and CC is a must if you are in high lightning zone. A top
of a mountain is often really hard on a house or Telcom. One place
I have blows SPD's yearly.

  


*Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar "we go where powerlines don't"
http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/ e-mail offgridso...@sti.net
text 209 813 0060*


On 2023-03-09 9:09 am, Drake Chamberlin via RE-wrenches wrote:


Backwoods Solar sells kits to harden against EMP. I am wondering
how effective they would be.

Drake


/Drake Chamberlin/

/Athens Electric LLC/

/Ohio Electrical Contractor’s License 44810/

/CO Master Electrician’s License 4526/

/NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional/

---


On 2023-03-08 11:49, Glenn Burt via RE-wrenches wrote:

I would review Sol Arks website as they say they are immune.
Probably have something to back that up published there.
-Glenn
Sent from my 'smart'phone, so please excuse typos and
spelling errors.
-- Original message--
*From: *Marco Mangelsdorf via RE-wrenches
*Date: *Wed, Mar 8, 2023 11:37 AM
*To: *RE-wrenches;
*Cc: *Marco Mangelsdorf;
*Subject:*[RE-wrenches] PV and EMP
Aloha all,
Have any of you come across any articles or white papers on
how PV systems (including energy storage) fare under
conditions of electromagnetic pulses and solar flares?
Mahalo,
marco

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Re: [RE-wrenches] PV and EMP

[Starlight via RE-wrenches]

Right Dave. The VooDoo of EMI filtering, lightning protection or EMP induced 
voltage reduction attempts are similar and governed by the inverse square law. 
How much energy and how close is it? You must properly reduce energy 
propagation at every point. I have seen very expensive protection systems with 
poor implementation making the entire scheme useless.  So, is the cost and 
effort worth the results? Study, then study more. It may be more cost effective 
to have a back part rather than spending money on an expensive preventative 
measure.

Larry Crutcher
Starlight Solar Power Systems



On Mar 9, 2023, at 11:18 AM, Marco Mangelsdorf via RE-wrenches 
 wrote:

Hmmm...I wonder how much SolArk is dreaming.
https://www.sol-ark.com/e-m-p/ 

On Thu, Mar 9, 2023 at 9:58 AM Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar via RE-wrenches 
mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org>> 
wrote:
Depends on how close and how strong the pulse or strike is. In Mil satellites, 
the same thing. You can harden but are dreaming if you think your electronics 
can really survive it. Even harder to protect electronics that are powered on. 
The KH series spy sats I saw schematics for had redundant systems that were off 
or rotated I seem to remember. This was back in the 90's so very sketchy in the 
fog of time.
 
For Offgrid, and High Rel power systems, a faraday cage for your inverter and 
CC is a must if you are in high lightning zone. A top of a mountain is often 
really hard on a house or Telcom. One place I have blows SPD's yearly. 
 
Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar
"we go where powerlines don't"
http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/ 
e-mail  offgridso...@sti.net 
text 209 813 0060


On 2023-03-09 9:09 am, Drake Chamberlin via RE-wrenches wrote:

> Backwoods Solar sells kits to harden against EMP. I am wondering how 
> effective they would be.
> 
> Drake
> 
> 
> 
> Drake Chamberlin
> 
> Athens Electric LLC
> 
> Ohio Electrical Contractor’s License 44810
> 
> CO Master Electrician’s License 4526
> 
> NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional
> 
> ---
>  
> 
> 
> On 2023-03-08 11:49, Glenn Burt via RE-wrenches wrote:
> 
> I would review Sol Arks website as they say they are immune. Probably have 
> something to back that up published there.
>  
> -Glenn
> Sent from my 'smart'phone, so please excuse typos and spelling errors.
>  
> -- Original message--
> From: Marco Mangelsdorf via RE-wrenches
> Date: Wed, Mar 8, 2023 11:37 AM
> To: RE-wrenches;
> Cc: Marco Mangelsdorf;
> Subject:[RE-wrenches] PV and EMP
>  
> Aloha all, 
>  
> Have any of you come across any articles or white papers on how PV systems 
> (including energy storage) fare under conditions of electromagnetic pulses 
> and solar flares?
>  
> Mahalo, 
> marco
> 
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Re: [RE-wrenches] PV and EMP

[Marco Mangelsdorf via RE-wrenches]

Hmmm...I wonder how much SolArk is dreaming.
https://www.sol-ark.com/e-m-p/

On Thu, Mar 9, 2023 at 9:58 AM Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar via RE-wrenches <
re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:

> Depends on how close and how strong the pulse or strike is. In Mil
> satellites, the same thing. You can harden but are dreaming if you think
> your electronics can really survive it. Even harder to protect electronics
> that are powered on. The KH series spy sats I saw schematics for had
> redundant systems that were off or rotated I seem to remember. This was
> back in the 90's so very sketchy in the fog of time.
>
> For Offgrid, and High Rel power systems, a faraday cage for your inverter
> and CC is a must if you are in high lightning zone. A top of a mountain is
> often really hard on a house or Telcom. One place I have blows SPD's
> yearly.
>
>
>
> *Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar
> "we go where powerlines don't"
> http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/ 
> e-mail  offgridso...@sti.net 
> text 209 813 0060*
>
>
> On 2023-03-09 9:09 am, Drake Chamberlin via RE-wrenches wrote:
>
> Backwoods Solar sells kits to harden against EMP. I am wondering how
> effective they would be.
>
> Drake
>
>
> *Drake Chamberlin*
>
> *Athens Electric LLC*
>
> *Ohio Electrical Contractor’s License 44810*
>
> *CO Master Electrician’s License 4526*
>
> *NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional*
> ---
>
>
>
> On 2023-03-08 11:49, Glenn Burt via RE-wrenches wrote:
>
> I would review Sol Arks website as they say they are immune. Probably have
> something to back that up published there.
>
> -Glenn
> Sent from my 'smart'phone, so please excuse typos and spelling errors.
>
> -- Original message--
> *From: *Marco Mangelsdorf via RE-wrenches
> *Date: *Wed, Mar 8, 2023 11:37 AM
> *To: *RE-wrenches;
> *Cc: *Marco Mangelsdorf;
> *Subject:*[RE-wrenches] PV and EMP
>
> Aloha all,
>
> Have any of you come across any articles or white papers on how PV systems
> (including energy storage) fare under conditions of electromagnetic pulses
> and solar flares?
>
> Mahalo,
> marco
>
> ___
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Re: [RE-wrenches] PV and EMP

[Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar via RE-wrenches]

Depends on how close and how strong the pulse or strike is. In Mil 
satellites, the same thing. You can harden but are dreaming if you think 
your electronics can really survive it. Even harder to protect 
electronics that are powered on. The KH series spy sats I saw schematics 
for had redundant systems that were off or rotated I seem to remember. 
This was back in the 90's so very sketchy in the fog of time.


For Offgrid, and High Rel power systems, a faraday cage for your 
inverter and CC is a must if you are in high lightning zone. A top of a 
mountain is often really hard on a house or Telcom. One place I have 
blows SPD's yearly.


Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar
"we go where powerlines don't"
http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/
e-mail  offgridso...@sti.net
text 209 813 0060

On 2023-03-09 9:09 am, Drake Chamberlin via RE-wrenches wrote:

Backwoods Solar sells kits to harden against EMP. I am wondering how 
effective they would be.


Drake

_Drake Chamberlin_

_Athens Electric LLC_

_Ohio Electrical Contractor's License 44810_

_CO Master Electrician's License 4526_

_NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional_

---

On 2023-03-08 11:49, Glenn Burt via RE-wrenches wrote:

I would review Sol Arks website as they say they are immune. Probably 
have something to back that up published there.


-Glenn
Sent from my 'smart'phone, so please excuse typos and spelling errors.

-- Original message--
From: Marco Mangelsdorf via RE-wrenches
Date: Wed, Mar 8, 2023 11:37 AM
To: RE-wrenches;
Cc: Marco Mangelsdorf;
Subject:[RE-wrenches] PV and EMP
Aloha all,

Have any of you come across any articles or white papers on how PV 
systems (including energy storage) fare under conditions of 
electromagnetic pulses and solar flares?


Mahalo,
marco
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Re: [RE-wrenches] PV and EMP

[Drake Chamberlin via RE-wrenches]

Backwoods Solar sells kits to harden against EMP. I am wondering how
effective they would be. 

Drake 

_Drake Chamberlin_ 

_Athens Electric LLC_ 

_Ohio Electrical Contractor's License 44810_ 

_CO Master Electrician's License 4526_ 


_NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional_

---

On 2023-03-08 11:49, Glenn Burt via RE-wrenches wrote:

I would review Sol Arks website as they say they are immune. Probably have something to back that up published there. 

-Glenn 
Sent from my 'smart'phone, so please excuse typos and spelling errors. 

-- Original message-- 
From: Marco Mangelsdorf via RE-wrenches 
Date: Wed, Mar 8, 2023 11:37 AM 
To: RE-wrenches; 
Cc: Marco Mangelsdorf; 
Subject:[RE-wrenches] PV and EMP 
Aloha all,  

Have any of you come across any articles or white papers on how PV systems (including energy storage) fare under conditions of electromagnetic pulses and solar flares? 

Mahalo,  
marco 
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Voltage Rise

[Dave Tedeyan via RE-wrenches]

Hi All,
Just thought I'd follow up here. Turns out the transformer was rated at
10kva. (remember, this system has three 7.7kw inverters...) We were able to
get the utility to come out and put in a 25kVa transformer, and the voltage
rise is now way more in line with what we would expect.
Cheers,
Dave

On Thu, Feb 23, 2023 at 1:36 PM Dave Tedeyan 
wrote:

> The customer has already had the utility come out to take a look. He says
> they had him turn off the solar, and then they measured 246V at the
> transformer and then said it's not their problem. He was going to try to
> get them back out to check the connections at the transformer and the
> meter.
> Also, that's a good suggestion to check each leg separately to see if
> maybe there is only one line that has a bad connection.
> Cheers,
> Dave
>
> On Thu, Feb 23, 2023 at 1:33 PM Jerry Shafer via RE-wrenches <
> re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:
>
>> Wrenches, Dave
>> I have had this issue, first turn off everything, check static voltage,
>> this will drive everything else. If the static is 240 L-L look at the
>> utility side you might have small conductors, you might also have a
>> transformer size issue bottlenecking the current.  Next turn loads more the
>> better watch if there is a drop and how much. Now turn off everything and
>> power up the solar again watch the voltage at the meter if it climbs up and
>> close to limit it might be the feeders. It's all process of elimination.
>> Lots of fun
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Feb 23, 2023, 9:03 AM Dave Tedeyan via RE-wrenches <
>> re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:
>>
>>> Hi All,
>>>
>>> I've got a customer who is having issues with high voltage at their
>>> house. This first became an issue after installing 23.1kw of AC solar
>>> output. They have some GREE heat pumps which have been having some
>>> failures. The heat pump people are saying that the problem is that the
>>> voltage is above 252V.
>>>
>>> The grid voltage was measured at 246V with the solar off, and 260V with
>>> the solar cranking. The inverters are within 10' of the MSP where there is
>>> a line side connection. Then there is 4/0 AL cable which has to go roughly
>>> 175' before it reaches the transformer. At 246V and 92A, there should only
>>> be about a 3.6V rise, or maybe 4V including the wire from the inverters to
>>> the combiner to the MSP. Yet somehow there is about 14V of rise.
>>>
>>> The service entrance cable is buried. It is in conduit where it goes
>>> into and out of the ground, but I have no idea whether there is conduit for
>>> most of the run underground. Maybe there is a nick in the cable underground
>>> which has caused corrosion? Does anyone have any ideas of how to find the
>>> cause of the increased resistance? I should go back out there with an IR
>>> camera to check the connections that I can at least get to in the house.
>>>
>>> I have suggested that they install a buck/boost transformer on the heat
>>> pump circuits to bring down the voltage a little bit. But they are also
>>> concerned about the high voltage causing issues with other electrical
>>> appliances in the house. Does anyone have any anecdata to show whether
>>> there are other hidden issues if the house is at 260V during times of high
>>> solar production?
>>>
>>> Thanks!
>>> -Dave
>>>
>>> --
>>> [image: Logo] 
>>> Dave Tedeyan, P.E.
>>> Owner | Sungineer Solar
>>> p: he | him | his
>>> a: 1653 Slaterville Rd. | Ithaca, NY 14850
>>> w: www.sungineersolar.com 
>>> c: (607) 288-2898
>>> ___
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>> Check out or update participant bios:
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