Re: [RE-wrenches] EG4 Equipment
Howie, The EG4 18K and the Fortress Envy are both made by the same manufacturer, LuxPower. Google the LXP 12K and it will all make sense. I can’t speak for EG4, but I know that Fortress has progressed from simply white labeling this unit to doing a significant amount of programming and additional integration, specifically with regards to their monitoring platform. Personally, I have always had a skeptical approach with EG4. The EX line was chintzy at best. Every prospective client I have crossed paths with that has called out EG4 equipment thinks they know more and want it cheaper because they watched a few YouTube videos where unqualified DIY hacks free air conductors. I don’t want to write EG4 off completely, and am interested in their PowerPro battery. But with the ebb and flow of battery manufacturers, I wouldn’t be surprised if they weren’t around in 5 years. I feel differently about Fortress Power and although they have been a little overactive in the inverter market, I do believe that they are well intentioned and that their products and business are solid. There has been some recent LFP bashing, and respectfully, I will agree to disagree. Early iterations of LFP had frequent issues with BMS and cell failure, but all in all, LFP has been a shining star in off-grid applications. I say this having installed 100+ eVault Max 18.5 in strictly off-grid scenarios. Sure there are phone calls and necessary firmware updates (however never a single BMS failure with the eVault Max), but I’m not having the heartbreaking conversations of “when we came back from vacation our 48v lead acid battery bank was at 15 volts”. I don’t like those phone calls. I also don't like holes in my pants and shirts or calls that CO monitors are alarming because of dead vent fans. I’m not dying on the hill of LFP, but I will say that I am firmly in support of the measurable improvements they have made for my customers. Paired with remote monitoring, the truck rolls a lot less. Kindly, Chris On Fri, Feb 16, 2024 at 4:33 PM Dan Fink via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > The issue I'm having with EG4 specifically and Signature Solar in general > is a scattershot approach to UL and NRTL listings. Those listings may not > be important to various DIY folks of varying levels of "git-er-done," but > listings are critical for my business. Some products they sell are Listed > per NEC, some are not, and some EG4 are listed, some are not. I recently > contacted Signature Solar regarding their EG4 rack mount ESS modules and > did not receive a satisfactory response, unfortunately a new off-grid > client had already purchased an entire rack of them before consulting with > me. Our county AHJ is very strict. I can't risk recommending or installing > a system that would fail inspection. Here in Colorado they often even cross > check the altitude ratings on all inverters. (sorry Schneider XW-Pro that I > like so much, limit on your spec sheet is 2000m altitude) > > Signature Solar provided the usual NRTL stamp for UL 1741SA etc etc on the > EG4 rack batteries, then also a UL 9540A testing certificate that they said > should be sufficient, and it disturbed me that they did not seem to > understand that UL 9540A is NOT a listing - it's a fire-resistance test > that an ESS manufacturer can use as a document to help obtain their actual > UL9540 listing, and also gain exemptions to spacing and other > requirementsbut from my understanding it's NOT an actual UL or NRTL > listing to UL 9540. When I inquired about that, Signature Solar stopped > communicating with me. > > I'm pretty sure my understanding of UL 9540 listing vs. 9540A testing is > correct, but I would appreciate any input before again gently confronting > both AHJs and manufacturers. > > Dan Fink > Owner, Buckville Energy Consulting LLC > IREC Certified Instructor for PV and Small Wind Installation > NABCEP Certified PV System Inspector > NABCEP PV Associate > d anbo...@gmail.com > 970-672-4342 > >> >> >> ___ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > ___ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-
[RE-wrenches] Tigo RSS Off Grid
Has anyone successfully used a MidNite Classic CC to power a Tigo Rapid Shutdown Transmitter in an off grid setting ? Specifically using the 12v Aux output to keep the PV circuits alive instead of relying on the inverter AC output to do this. Think of this scenario. Batteries reach LBCO, inverter shuts OFF, no PV to re charge back to LBCI, no generator backup to recharge batteries. Jeremy Rodriguez Solar Installation / Design All Solar, Inc. 1453 M St. Penrose Colorado 81240 Sent by Jeremy's iPhone. Sorry for typos and shorthand. ___ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/ http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: http://www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] EG4 Equipment
The issue I'm having with EG4 specifically and Signature Solar in general is a scattershot approach to UL and NRTL listings. Those listings may not be important to various DIY folks of varying levels of "git-er-done," but listings are critical for my business. Some products they sell are Listed per NEC, some are not, and some EG4 are listed, some are not. I recently contacted Signature Solar regarding their EG4 rack mount ESS modules and did not receive a satisfactory response, unfortunately a new off-grid client had already purchased an entire rack of them before consulting with me. Our county AHJ is very strict. I can't risk recommending or installing a system that would fail inspection. Here in Colorado they often even cross check the altitude ratings on all inverters. (sorry Schneider XW-Pro that I like so much, limit on your spec sheet is 2000m altitude) Signature Solar provided the usual NRTL stamp for UL 1741SA etc etc on the EG4 rack batteries, then also a UL 9540A testing certificate that they said should be sufficient, and it disturbed me that they did not seem to understand that UL 9540A is NOT a listing - it's a fire-resistance test that an ESS manufacturer can use as a document to help obtain their actual UL9540 listing, and also gain exemptions to spacing and other requirementsbut from my understanding it's NOT an actual UL or NRTL listing to UL 9540. When I inquired about that, Signature Solar stopped communicating with me. I'm pretty sure my understanding of UL 9540 listing vs. 9540A testing is correct, but I would appreciate any input before again gently confronting both AHJs and manufacturers. Dan Fink Owner, Buckville Energy Consulting LLC IREC Certified Instructor for PV and Small Wind Installation NABCEP Certified PV System Inspector NABCEP PV Associate d anbo...@gmail.com 970-672-4342 > > > ___ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/ http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: http://www.members.re-wrenches.org
[RE-wrenches] Soligent outside request for info
Hi Wrenches. I received the following from Bruce Roush, who is not on the list. If you can help him, please contact him directly, off-list. Of course, if something is important to share with other Wrenches, it's fine to do it on-list. Hi Michael- I am trying to get in contact with someone familiar with Magnum & Dimensions Inverters. I am having a hard time getting support and parts through my Purchasing Dept at Soligent. It seem Sensata has outsourced everything and getting in touch with a technically competent employee is not possible. Is there any way you could post a request on the list for an engineer or technician familiar with the product lines to get in contact with me? Bruce Roush (Soligent) 707-529-1456 bruce.ro...@soligent.net ___ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/ http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: http://www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] EG4 Equipment
Dave, I took a quick look at the Discover AES battery specifications you linked to and didn't find an entry for how much power the BMS uses when the battery is turned ON, but doing nothing? In my experience the Fortress eFlex BMS uses on the order of 12-15 W, and it would be interesting to know how the AES compares. The absence of a BMS is a lead acid advantage for some remote applications. Thanks, Kirk Bailey www.abundantsolar.com On Fri, Feb 16, 2024 at 3:12 PM Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar via RE-wrenches wrote: > > Howie, I think you should also look again at the Discover rack mount system > in the link below. Nice 75 year old company that made it's name on Locomotive > batteries. Their prices are way down around 14 K for 30Kwh with heaters. If > you have not looked at Lynk2 their gateway closed loop into SMA, Schneider, > Solark, Morningstar and a few others you should. > > The only problems I have with Schneider are pretty easy and get resolved > because I only use them and take all of the training. Conext Insight is a > home run for my clients. Schneider also hired me to test their first closed > loop system with LG back in 2017 and it still is working fine. > > https://discoverlithium.com/products/lithium-batteries/aes-rackmount > > > > Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar > "we go where powerlines don't" > https://offgridsolar1.com/ > e-mail offgridso...@sti.net > text 209 813 0060 > > > On 2024-02-16 2:02 pm, Michael Morningstar via RE-wrenches wrote: > > We gave EG4 and Signature another chance after promises from their dealer > oriented support department that we could expect better service from them. We > had an EG4 BMS crap out a couple months ago after only a few months. Lots and > lots of communications with Signature and we still don't have a BMS or > replacement battery. It's been a shit show with them. I think we are going to > remove them and install 3rd party BMS's and find some use for them. Maybe > donate them. We've only had luck with Schneider/Discover pairings in closed > loop. A large system we did with Sol-Arks never really worked in Closed loop, > despite Discover coming to the site. Most likely it's a Sol-Ark issue, but > we've reached Sol-Arks technical expertise limits. Even with Schneider/AES, > there have been some issues that are causing me to re-consider Li for > offgrid. I just had a conversation this morning with a long time off-grid pro > and he said the same thing. It used to be, we'd install a wet lead acid bank > and then ten years would pass before hearing from the client when it was time > for another bank. Sometimes fifteen years. Our call backs with systems over > the last ten years, first with a decline in equipment quality and then the > switch to Li are costing us too much money and causing a lot of heartburn for > our clients. Rant Over > > On Fri, Feb 16, 2024 at 12:57 PM Howie Michaelson via RE-wrenches > wrote: > > Hi All, > > I've searched the archives for info pertaining to EG4 inverters and > batteries. The comments have been mostly positive. I have stayed away from > EG4 until now in part, for the reason the Michael Morningstar suggested last > June - that is, they seemed very oriented to the DIY market and not real > serious contenders in the lasting marketplace. However, I was at RE+ Boston > this week and was quite surprised to see that the EG4 18k inverter is, for > all I could tell, identical to the Fortress Envy 12k, in both physical layout > as well as menu structure. I have very limited experience with the Envy > (having just installed my 1st one last week, in order to compare it to the > Sol-Ark 15). I don't have any thoughts about it yet, except that the font on > the screen is quite small and the opening screen is not as intuitive as the > Sol-Ark, but that might just take familiarizing myself more to the Envy > (and/or the EG4). > > My question is, for folks who have had either the Envy or the EG4 inverters > installed for a decent period of time, what is your current take on their > functionality, durability, and for the EG4, the quality of support? Also, > what experience have folks had similarly with the EG4 LLI batteries? I'm not > unhappy with the Sol-Ark or in general the Fortress eVault Max battery, but > there are some attractive things about the Envy and potentially the EG4 18k, > and the price point and seemingly smart configuration of the EG4 LLI > batteries are certainly eye-catching. > > I'm also currently starting to lean toward using Lithium batteries and > inverters from the same manufacturer, as I'm growing weary of the mismatching > firmware updates that are causing somewhat frequent issues between the 2 > components. Although the inverter/battery integrated units (i.e. Sonen, > Tesla, etc.) don't seem ideal, since the market is so volatile at the moment. > If one component fails, I'd like the option to replace it with a different > brand without having to replace th
Re: [RE-wrenches] EG4 Equipment
Howie, I think you should also look again at the Discover rack mount system in the link below. Nice 75 year old company that made it's name on Locomotive batteries. Their prices are way down around 14 K for 30Kwh with heaters. If you have not looked at Lynk2 their gateway closed loop into SMA, Schneider, Solark, Morningstar and a few others you should. The only problems I have with Schneider are pretty easy and get resolved because I only use them and take all of the training. Conext Insight is a home run for my clients. Schneider also hired me to test their first closed loop system with LG back in 2017 and it still is working fine. https://discoverlithium.com/products/lithium-batteries/aes-rackmount Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar "we go where powerlines don't" [1]https://offgridsolar1.com/ [2] [1] e-mail offgridso...@sti.net text 209 813 0060 On 2024-02-16 2:02 pm, Michael Morningstar via RE-wrenches wrote: We gave EG4 and Signature another chance after promises from their dealer oriented support department that we could expect better service from them. We had an EG4 BMS crap out a couple months ago after only a few months. Lots and lots of communications with Signature and we still don't have a BMS or replacement battery. It's been a shit show with them. I think we are going to remove them and install 3rd party BMS's and find some use for them. Maybe donate them. We've only had luck with Schneider/Discover pairings in closed loop. A large system we did with Sol-Arks never really worked in Closed loop, despite Discover coming to the site. Most likely it's a Sol-Ark issue, but we've reached Sol-Arks technical expertise limits. Even with Schneider/AES, there have been some issues that are causing me to re-consider Li for offgrid. I just had a conversation this morning with a long time off-grid pro and he said the same thing. It used to be, we'd install a wet lead acid bank and then ten years would pass before hearing from the client when it was time for another bank. Sometimes fifteen years. Our call backs with systems over the last ten years, first with a decline in equipment quality and then the switch to Li are costing us too much money and causing a lot of heartburn for our clients. Rant Over On Fri, Feb 16, 2024 at 12:57 PM Howie Michaelson via RE-wrenches wrote: Hi All, I've searched the archives for info pertaining to EG4 inverters and batteries. The comments have been mostly positive. I have stayed away from EG4 until now in part, for the reason the Michael Morningstar suggested last June - that is, they seemed very oriented to the DIY market and not real serious contenders in the lasting marketplace. However, I was at RE+ Boston this week and was quite surprised to see that the EG4 18k inverter is, for all I could tell, identical to the Fortress Envy 12k, in both physical layout as well as menu structure. I have very limited experience with the Envy (having just installed my 1st one last week, in order to compare it to the Sol-Ark 15). I don't have any thoughts about it yet, except that the font on the screen is quite small and the opening screen is not as intuitive as the Sol-Ark, but that might just take familiarizing myself more to the Envy (and/or the EG4). My question is, for folks who have had either the Envy or the EG4 inverters installed for a decent period of time, what is your current take on their functionality, durability, and for the EG4, the quality of support? Also, what experience have folks had similarly with the EG4 LLI batteries? I'm not unhappy with the Sol-Ark or in general the Fortress eVault Max battery, but there are some attractive things about the Envy and potentially the EG4 18k, and the price point and seemingly smart configuration of the EG4 LLI batteries are certainly eye-catching. I'm also currently starting to lean toward using Lithium batteries and inverters from the same manufacturer, as I'm growing weary of the mismatching firmware updates that are causing somewhat frequent issues between the 2 components. Although the inverter/battery integrated units (i.e. Sonen, Tesla, etc.) don't seem ideal, since the market is so volatile at the moment. If one component fails, I'd like the option to replace it with a different brand without having to replace the other component as well. Using the same manu doesn't necessarily cut down the problems, but it certainly will help in the troubleshooting process by hopefully having less of the "not my problem" or "we haven't seen that problem" responses from tech support. I really don't like making forays into bleeding-edge technologies, so I'm hoping to gain some experienced insight. Thanks, Howie Michaelson Sun Catcher ___ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings:
Re: [RE-wrenches] EG4 Equipment
We gave EG4 and Signature another chance after promises from their dealer oriented support department that we could expect better service from them. We had an EG4 BMS crap out a couple months ago after only a few months. Lots and lots of communications with Signature and we still don’t have a BMS or replacement battery. It’s been a shit show with them. I think we are going to remove them and install 3rd party BMS’s and find some use for them. Maybe donate them. We’ve only had luck with Schneider/Discover pairings in closed loop. A large system we did with Sol-Arks never really worked in Closed loop, despite Discover coming to the site. Most likely it’s a Sol-Ark issue, but we’ve reached Sol-Arks technical expertise limits. Even with Schneider/AES, there have been some issues that are causing me to re-consider Li for offgrid. I just had a conversation this morning with a long time off-grid pro and he said the same thing. It used to be, we’d install a wet lead acid bank and then ten years would pass before hearing from the client when it was time for another bank. Sometimes fifteen years. Our call backs with systems over the last ten years, first with a decline in equipment quality and then the switch to Li are costing us too much money and causing a lot of heartburn for our clients. Rant Over On Fri, Feb 16, 2024 at 12:57 PM Howie Michaelson via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > Hi All, > > I've searched the archives for info pertaining to EG4 inverters and > batteries. The comments have been mostly positive. I have stayed away from > EG4 until now in part, for the reason the Michael Morningstar suggested > last June - that is, they seemed very oriented to the DIY market and not > real serious contenders in the lasting marketplace. However, I was at RE+ > Boston this week and was quite surprised to see that the EG4 18k inverter > is, for all I could tell, identical to the Fortress Envy 12k, in both > physical layout as well as menu structure. I have very limited experience > with the Envy (having just installed my 1st one last week, in order to > compare it to the Sol-Ark 15). I don't have any thoughts about it yet, > except that the font on the screen is quite small and the opening screen is > not as intuitive as the Sol-Ark, but that might just take familiarizing > myself more to the Envy (and/or the EG4). > > My question is, for folks who have had either the Envy or the EG4 > inverters installed for a decent period of time, what is your current take > on their functionality, durability, and for the EG4, the quality of > support? Also, what experience have folks had similarly with the EG4 LLI > batteries? I'm not unhappy with the Sol-Ark or in general the Fortress > eVault Max battery, but there are some attractive things about the Envy and > potentially the EG4 18k, and the price point and seemingly smart > configuration of the EG4 LLI batteries are certainly eye-catching. > > I'm also currently starting to lean toward using Lithium batteries and > inverters from the same manufacturer, as I'm growing weary of the > mismatching firmware updates that are causing somewhat frequent issues > between the 2 components. Although the inverter/battery integrated units > (i.e. Sonen, Tesla, etc.) don't seem ideal, since the market is so volatile > at the moment. If one component fails, I'd like the option to replace it > with a different brand without having to replace the other component as > well. Using the same manu doesn't necessarily cut down the problems, but it > certainly will help in the troubleshooting process by hopefully having less > of the "not my problem" or "we haven't seen that problem" responses from > tech support. > > I really don't like making forays into bleeding-edge technologies, so I'm > hoping to gain some experienced insight. > > Thanks, > Howie Michaelson > Sun Catcher > > ___ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -- Michael Morningstar Morningstar Electric PO Box 1494 Mount Shasta, CA 96067 530-921-0560 mjmornings...@gmail.com ___ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches
[RE-wrenches] EG4 Equipment
Hi All, I've searched the archives for info pertaining to EG4 inverters and batteries. The comments have been mostly positive. I have stayed away from EG4 until now in part, for the reason the Michael Morningstar suggested last June - that is, they seemed very oriented to the DIY market and not real serious contenders in the lasting marketplace. However, I was at RE+ Boston this week and was quite surprised to see that the EG4 18k inverter is, for all I could tell, identical to the Fortress Envy 12k, in both physical layout as well as menu structure. I have very limited experience with the Envy (having just installed my 1st one last week, in order to compare it to the Sol-Ark 15). I don't have any thoughts about it yet, except that the font on the screen is quite small and the opening screen is not as intuitive as the Sol-Ark, but that might just take familiarizing myself more to the Envy (and/or the EG4). My question is, for folks who have had either the Envy or the EG4 inverters installed for a decent period of time, what is your current take on their functionality, durability, and for the EG4, the quality of support? Also, what experience have folks had similarly with the EG4 LLI batteries? I'm not unhappy with the Sol-Ark or in general the Fortress eVault Max battery, but there are some attractive things about the Envy and potentially the EG4 18k, and the price point and seemingly smart configuration of the EG4 LLI batteries are certainly eye-catching. I'm also currently starting to lean toward using Lithium batteries and inverters from the same manufacturer, as I'm growing weary of the mismatching firmware updates that are causing somewhat frequent issues between the 2 components. Although the inverter/battery integrated units (i.e. Sonen, Tesla, etc.) don't seem ideal, since the market is so volatile at the moment. If one component fails, I'd like the option to replace it with a different brand without having to replace the other component as well. Using the same manu doesn't necessarily cut down the problems, but it certainly will help in the troubleshooting process by hopefully having less of the "not my problem" or "we haven't seen that problem" responses from tech support. I really don't like making forays into bleeding-edge technologies, so I'm hoping to gain some experienced insight. Thanks, Howie Michaelson Sun Catcher ___ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/ http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: http://www.members.re-wrenches.org
