I'm with Ray on this.
The only thing I will add is that insurers are _weasels_ and will try to
get out of anything. You cannot *rely* on insurance for anything. It is
inherently unreliable. I think of it as additional risk mitigation beyond
what you already do in your course of work to mitigate risk, but there are
no guarantees. Consider the assets you are protecting and take reasonable
measures. You simply can't insure against every calamity.
Jason Szumlanski
Principal Solar Designer | Florida Solar Design Group
NABCEP Certified Solar Professional (PVIP)
Florida State Certified Solar Contractor CVC56956
Florida Certified Electrical Contractor EC13013208
On Tue, Mar 12, 2024 at 1:27 AM Ray Walters via RE-wrenches <
re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:
> Something else to consider for us small operators: LLC and incorporation
> offer some protection as well. If your company is sued, and then declares
> bankruptcy, there's not going to be much for the other party's attorneys to
> go after. I've heard it described by my attorney, that most attorneys
> won't even take the case when they hear the defendant is uninsured. When
> you are insured, they will sue for exactly what the insurance covers + your
> liquid assets. They don't want your old truck and tools.
>
> Everything we do, (especially driving) has risk. We have to decide on a
> job per job basis whether that risk is acceptable for the amount of money
> we're charging. Bigger, more complicated jobs = more risk, therefore more
> insurance is probably warranted. Some projects require so much insurance
> that you can't even do the job. I worked on some pipeline projects that
> increased the required insurance to $20 million at a cost of almost $100k/
> year. We don't do that work anymore.
>
> This is also why I don't have a bunch of kids running around in trucks
> making mistakes every day; too much liability. I closely supervise
> everything that my company takes responsibility for, and I sleep well at
> night with my standard contractor's liability insurance.
>
> Remember, insurance agents primary goal is to sell more insurance. Of
> course they want you to have an E policy, too.
>
> Ray Walters
> Remote Solar
> On 3/11/2024 7:41 PM, Howie Michaelson via RE-wrenches wrote:
>
> William, et al,
> As always, a thorough explanation of your considered opinion. Thanks.
> Food for thought and a question to others who have more insight to the
> world of insurance and liability than I:
> My understanding of General Liability insurance, is that it is intended to
> cover mistakes in the physical work process - that is things like frying a
> piece of electronics due to faulty installation practices, dropping a
> hammer onto the pet cat, leaving an exposed conductor that one of the
> toddlers in the house stumbles upon and decides to see how it tastes,
> hanging the inverter on a sheetrock wall using toggle anchors, or one of a
> million mistakes possible during or after the installation. On the other
> hand, if I design an 10kW inverter to backfeed through an outlet (or more
> likely a conductor that inadvertently undersized for the distance it is
> running), or I design something that is compliant with the 2020 code cycle,
> but unbeknownst to me the jurisdiction I am working in adopted 2023 last
> week, and the design later is found at fault in a fire that burned the
> house down, General Liability does not cover me. That is when an E
> policy would come into play and cover my ass. THis is what a previous
> insurance agent informed me of after being insured through them for 15
> years without an E policy (thank you very much). If this is true, then it
> doesn't seem like it matters whether you or someone else does the work, if
> it is your design that is being used. Without an E policy, you
> potentially own any design errors for the life of the system. I wasn't sure
> if you were saying that you are comfortable taking on that liability
> because you have enough faith in your design work, or if your impression is
> that if you do the installation work, a general liability policy will cover
> any problems. I would understand the former (although I don't think I
> would be willing to accept that liability unless perhaps the cost of the
> policy was prohibitively expensive). If my understanding of these policies
> is not accurate, then I would love to hear a correct interpretation of what
> they do and don't cover.
>
> Howie Michaelson
> Sun Catcher
>
>
> On Mon, Mar 11, 2024 at 8:02 PM William Miller via RE-wrenches <
> re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:
>
>> Dave:
>>
>>
>>
>> I have thought about this dilemma pretty carefully in the past. I have
>> come up with a line of logic that works for me. I will try to keep the
>> explanation short but there is some nuance to it that might take some
>> ‘splaning.
>>
>>
>>
>> As a licensed electrical contractor it is my responsibility to design the
>> systems I install, with certain
