Re: [RE-wrenches] 120 Vac and 12Vdc mixed distribution system

[Jay via RE-wrenches]

Maybe the new 5kw 120v unit is the 8kw at 120v?JayOn May 3, 2024, at 4:22 PM, Tom McCalmont via RE-wrenches  wrote:David is correct.  We have some experience with Sol-Ark’s inverter, and it’s a good product.  However, be aware that you can configure it either as a 120V inverter with a max. output of about 5 kW or as a 240V inverter with a max. output of about 8 kW.  However, it does NOT do split-phase, meaning if you configure it for 240V, it cannot run loads that require a neutral.Tom McCalmontPaired PowerOn May 3, 2024, at 4:12 PM, david quattro via RE-wrenches  wrote:I think SolArk makes an 8K 120V-only versionDavidOn Fri, May 3, 2024 at 3:13 PM Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches  wrote:For this application I was originally thinking about a 48V inverter with 120V output, but there are not many options in the size range I was considering. It hit me that I could potentially get a 120/240V split-phase inverter and run the DC converter from one leg and the 120V loads from the other leg. The Sol-Ark 8K would probably be the right size for this application. Despite there being no 240V loads, they "could" add them in the future if needed. I know about imbalance issues with the 12k, but have not heard this same feedback about the 8k, so please let me know if you know otherwise. I really doubt there will be enough imbalance here to cause issues. The biggest load on the DC side is a tiny 12V DC pump and the largest load on the AC side will be the new refrigerator, or maybe a big ceiling fan starting up. The inductive loads are almost negligible. Really the only reason I want an inverter this large is for the charger capacity. The owner wants a 9.6kWh LiPo battery minimum, so I want a sizable charger.BUT, the client would need to replace their 120V portable generator with a split-phase unit. That could be a sticking point taking me back to a 120V inverter.I was hoping for an all-in-one for this particular job, but the only one I can find that is 48Vdc and 120Vac is the EG4 6500EX-48. At the price point they offer it, I guess it can't hurt to try! I can even have a spare on the shelf for less in total than the cost of a Victron inverter charger and separate charge controller, and still have money to spare. I have been dabbling into the EG4 brand, mostly with clients that went ahead and bought EG4 batteries before they ever met me, and I haven't had any real issues other than battery to inverter closed loop comms. It's too early to say I'm impressed, but the prices are in the too-good-to-be-true category. I don't want to get off topic here with batteries and manufacturer reliability, but I wanted to mention the EG4 6500EX-48, which seems like perfect specs for this job.And... I know... someone is probably thinking that we're up to a 9.6kWh battery with a small 120V generator, and that's probably not a good match. I get that, but the client expects the PV to handle all of their needs with the generator only serving as an emergency backup. I have alerted them to the potential mismatch. I still want a sizeable charger in case they upgrade their generator for faster battery recharges.Jason SzumlanskiPrincipal Solar Designer | Florida Solar Design GroupNABCEP Certified Solar Professional (PVIP)Florida State Certified Solar Contractor CVC56956Florida Certified Electrical Contractor EC13013208On Wed, Apr 24, 2024 at 1:52 PM John Blittersdorf via RE-wrenches  wrote:Jason,  Just using the converter works fine. They are considered a battery charger or a regulated power supply. I am currently running that way now with the battery cables going nowhere.  I was thinking of putting the battery back in the system just for triple redundancy when my inverter hits low battery cutoff voltage on a cold winter night and no fuel for the generator (or it won't start).My Iota DLS puts out a regulated 13.4 volts up to 30 amps. JohnOn Wed, Apr 24, 2024 at 8:25 AM Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches  wrote:Ah ha! I didn't consider using a small 12V battery with a charger. I was thinking of just using a 120V -> 12V converter to handle the DC loads. Is the 12V battery really necessary, or can I just power the DC loads directly with a converter? If I just have lights and fans on the DC system, the load should be pretty minimal. I could use a separate 12V battery, but I would like to eliminate that cost and complexity if possible.And yeah, I am not considering this a money making opportunity. It's really just a challenge to ward off boredom from the daily grind.Jason SzumlanskiPrincipal Solar Designer | Florida Solar Design GroupNABCEP Certified Solar Professional (PVIP)Florida State Certified Solar Contractor CVC56956Florida Certified Electrical Contractor EC13013208On Wed, Apr 24, 2024 at 8:01 AM John Blittersdorf via RE-wrenches  wrote:Jason,  I have a customer with the same situation except he already has a 

Re: [RE-wrenches] 120 Vac and 12Vdc mixed distribution system

[Tom McCalmont via RE-wrenches]

David is correct.  We have some experience with Sol-Ark’s inverter, and it’s a 
good product.  However, be aware that you can configure it either as a 120V 
inverter with a max. output of about 5 kW or as a 240V inverter with a max. 
output of about 8 kW.  However, it does NOT do split-phase, meaning if you 
configure it for 240V, it cannot run loads that require a neutral.

Tom McCalmont
Paired Power


> On May 3, 2024, at 4:12 PM, david quattro via RE-wrenches 
>  wrote:
> 
> I think SolArk makes an 8K 120V-only version
> David
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On Fri, May 3, 2024 at 3:13 PM Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches 
>  > wrote:
>> For this application I was originally thinking about a 48V inverter with 
>> 120V output, but there are not many options in the size range I was 
>> considering. It hit me that I could potentially get a 120/240V split-phase 
>> inverter and run the DC converter from one leg and the 120V loads from the 
>> other leg. The Sol-Ark 8K would probably be the right size for this 
>> application. Despite there being no 240V loads, they "could" add them in the 
>> future if needed. I know about imbalance issues with the 12k, but have not 
>> heard this same feedback about the 8k, so please let me know if you know 
>> otherwise. 
>> 
>> I really doubt there will be enough imbalance here to cause issues. The 
>> biggest load on the DC side is a tiny 12V DC pump and the largest load on 
>> the AC side will be the new refrigerator, or maybe a big ceiling fan 
>> starting up. The inductive loads are almost negligible. Really the only 
>> reason I want an inverter this large is for the charger capacity. The owner 
>> wants a 9.6kWh LiPo battery minimum, so I want a sizable charger.
>> 
>> BUT, the client would need to replace their 120V portable generator with a 
>> split-phase unit. That could be a sticking point taking me back to a 120V 
>> inverter.
>> 
>> I was hoping for an all-in-one for this particular job, but the only one I 
>> can find that is 48Vdc and 120Vac is the EG4 6500EX-48. At the price point 
>> they offer it, I guess it can't hurt to try! I can even have a spare on the 
>> shelf for less in total than the cost of a Victron inverter charger and 
>> separate charge controller, and still have money to spare. I have been 
>> dabbling into the EG4 brand, mostly with clients that went ahead and bought 
>> EG4 batteries before they ever met me, and I haven't had any real issues 
>> other than battery to inverter closed loop comms. It's too early to say I'm 
>> impressed, but the prices are in the too-good-to-be-true category. I don't 
>> want to get off topic here with batteries and manufacturer reliability, but 
>> I wanted to mention the EG4 6500EX-48, which seems like perfect specs for 
>> this job.
>> 
>> 
>> And... I know... someone is probably thinking that we're up to a 9.6kWh 
>> battery with a small 120V generator, and that's probably not a good match. I 
>> get that, but the client expects the PV to handle all of their needs with 
>> the generator only serving as an emergency backup. I have alerted them to 
>> the potential mismatch. I still want a sizeable charger in case they upgrade 
>> their generator for faster battery recharges.
>> 
>> Jason Szumlanski
>> Principal Solar Designer | Florida Solar Design Group
>> NABCEP Certified Solar Professional (PVIP)
>> Florida State Certified Solar Contractor CVC56956
>> Florida Certified Electrical Contractor EC13013208
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> On Wed, Apr 24, 2024 at 1:52 PM John Blittersdorf via RE-wrenches 
>> > > wrote:
>>> Jason,
>>>   Just using the converter works fine. They are considered a battery 
>>> charger or a regulated power supply. I am currently running that way now 
>>> with the battery cables going nowhere.  I was thinking of putting the 
>>> battery back in the system just for triple redundancy when my inverter hits 
>>> low battery cutoff voltage on a cold winter night and no fuel for the 
>>> generator (or it won't start).
>>> My Iota DLS puts out a regulated 13.4 volts up to 30 amps. 
>>> 
>>> John
>>> 
>>> On Wed, Apr 24, 2024 at 8:25 AM Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches 
>>> >> > wrote:
 Ah ha! I didn't consider using a small 12V battery with a charger. I was 
 thinking of just using a 120V -> 12V converter to handle the DC loads. Is 
 the 12V battery really necessary, or can I just power the DC loads 
 directly with a converter? If I just have lights and fans on the DC 
 system, the load should be pretty minimal. 
 
 I could use a separate 12V battery, but I would like to eliminate that 
 cost and complexity if possible.
 
 
 And yeah, I am not considering this a money making opportunity. It's 
 really just a challenge to ward off boredom from the daily grind.
>> 
 
 Jason Szumlanski
 Principal Solar Designer | Florida Solar Design Group

Re: [RE-wrenches] 120 Vac and 12Vdc mixed distribution system

[david quattro via RE-wrenches]

I think SolArk makes an 8K 120V-only version
David




On Fri, May 3, 2024 at 3:13 PM Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches <
re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:

> For this application I was originally thinking about a 48V inverter with
> 120V output, but there are not many options in the size range I was
> considering. It hit me that I could potentially get a 120/240V split-phase
> inverter and run the DC converter from one leg and the 120V loads from the
> other leg. The Sol-Ark 8K would probably be the right size for this
> application. Despite there being no 240V loads, they "could" add them in
> the future if needed. I know about imbalance issues with the 12k, but have
> not heard this same feedback about the 8k, so please let me know if you
> know otherwise.
>
> I really doubt there will be enough imbalance here to cause issues. The
> biggest load on the DC side is a tiny 12V DC pump and the largest load on
> the AC side will be the new refrigerator, or maybe a big ceiling fan
> starting up. The inductive loads are almost negligible. Really the only
> reason I want an inverter this large is for the charger capacity. The owner
> wants a 9.6kWh LiPo battery minimum, so I want a sizable charger.
>
> BUT, the client would need to replace their 120V portable generator with a
> split-phase unit. That could be a sticking point taking me back to a 120V
> inverter.
>
> I was hoping for an all-in-one for this particular job, but the only one I
> can find that is 48Vdc and 120Vac is the EG4 6500EX-48. At the price point
> they offer it, I guess it can't hurt to try! I can even have a spare on the
> shelf for less in total than the cost of a Victron inverter charger and
> separate charge controller, and still have money to spare. I have been
> dabbling into the EG4 brand, mostly with clients that went ahead and bought
> EG4 batteries before they ever met me, and I haven't had any real issues
> other than battery to inverter closed loop comms. It's too early to say I'm
> impressed, but the prices are in the too-good-to-be-true category. I don't
> want to get off topic here with batteries and manufacturer reliability, but
> I wanted to mention the EG4 6500EX-48, which seems like perfect specs for
> this job.
>
>
> And... I know... someone is probably thinking that we're up to a 9.6kWh
> battery with a small 120V generator, and that's probably not a good match.
> I get that, but the client expects the PV to handle all of their needs with
> the generator only serving as an emergency backup. I have alerted them to
> the potential mismatch. I still want a sizeable charger in case they
> upgrade their generator for faster battery recharges.
>
> Jason Szumlanski
> Principal Solar Designer | Florida Solar Design Group
> NABCEP Certified Solar Professional (PVIP)
> Florida State Certified Solar Contractor CVC56956
> Florida Certified Electrical Contractor EC13013208
>
>
> On Wed, Apr 24, 2024 at 1:52 PM John Blittersdorf via RE-wrenches <
> re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:
>
>> Jason,
>>   Just using the converter works fine. They are considered a battery
>> charger or a regulated power supply. I am currently running that way now
>> with the battery cables going nowhere.  I was thinking of putting the
>> battery back in the system just for triple redundancy when my inverter hits
>> low battery cutoff voltage on a cold winter night and no fuel for the
>> generator (or it won't start).
>> My Iota DLS puts out a regulated 13.4 volts up to 30 amps.
>>
>> John
>>
>> On Wed, Apr 24, 2024 at 8:25 AM Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches <
>> re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:
>>
>>> Ah ha! I didn't consider using a small 12V battery with a charger. I was
>>> thinking of just using a 120V -> 12V converter to handle the DC loads. Is
>>> the 12V battery really necessary, or can I just power the DC loads directly
>>> with a converter? If I just have lights and fans on the DC system, the load
>>> should be pretty minimal.
>>>
>>> I could use a separate 12V battery, but I would like to eliminate that
>>> cost and complexity if possible.
>>>
>>>
>>> And yeah, I am not considering this a money making opportunity. It's
>>> really just a challenge to ward off boredom from the daily grind.
>>>
>>
>>> Jason Szumlanski
>>> Principal Solar Designer | Florida Solar Design Group
>>> NABCEP Certified Solar Professional (PVIP)
>>> Florida State Certified Solar Contractor CVC56956
>>> Florida Certified Electrical Contractor EC13013208
>>>
>>>
>>> On Wed, Apr 24, 2024 at 8:01 AM John Blittersdorf via RE-wrenches <
>>> re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:
>>>
 Jason,
   I have a customer with the same situation except he already has a 12
 V VFX inverter,  He has a sunfrost fridge and other small loads with a very
 fancy custom control board
 originally set up to handle AC and DC systems.  We are adding a lot
 more solar and I was considering a dual battery system but the owner didn't
 like that idea.  

Re: [RE-wrenches] IRA Domestic Content Bonus Credit

[Peter Giroux via RE-wrenches]

Adam

 

  Solar Panels. Not sure any solar panel company is making panels in the US 
that meet the requirements as of today. I get emails from some but they state 
they are several months away . Seems to be a moving target that at times 
resembles a shell game.

 

  Qcell, Silfab and one or two more are close.

 

Peter Giroux

American Solar

 

From: RE-wrenches  On Behalf Of AE 
Solar via RE-wrenches
Sent: Friday, May 3, 2024 12:53 PM
To: RE-wrenches 
Cc: AE Solar 
Subject: [RE-wrenches] IRA Domestic Content Bonus Credit

 

Wrenches,

I'm wondering if any of you have thoughts/experience with the additional 10% 
ITC that the Inflation Reduction Act allocates for "domestic content". I'm 
doing some googling but not really sure what equipment (racking, panels, 
inverters, BOM, etc) we would need to install in order to qualify for this, and 
what the parameters are to qualify something as 'domestic content'. If anyone 
has rough thoughts or information sources to share I'm all ears...

Adam




Adam Katzman (he/him)
Autonomous Energies | Owner/Operator

www.AutonomousEnergies.com  
(518) 567-1468

 

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Re: [RE-wrenches] 120 Vac and 12Vdc mixed distribution system

[Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches]

For this application I was originally thinking about a 48V inverter with
120V output, but there are not many options in the size range I was
considering. It hit me that I could potentially get a 120/240V split-phase
inverter and run the DC converter from one leg and the 120V loads from the
other leg. The Sol-Ark 8K would probably be the right size for this
application. Despite there being no 240V loads, they "could" add them in
the future if needed. I know about imbalance issues with the 12k, but have
not heard this same feedback about the 8k, so please let me know if you
know otherwise.

I really doubt there will be enough imbalance here to cause issues. The
biggest load on the DC side is a tiny 12V DC pump and the largest load on
the AC side will be the new refrigerator, or maybe a big ceiling fan
starting up. The inductive loads are almost negligible. Really the only
reason I want an inverter this large is for the charger capacity. The owner
wants a 9.6kWh LiPo battery minimum, so I want a sizable charger.

BUT, the client would need to replace their 120V portable generator with a
split-phase unit. That could be a sticking point taking me back to a 120V
inverter.

I was hoping for an all-in-one for this particular job, but the only one I
can find that is 48Vdc and 120Vac is the EG4 6500EX-48. At the price point
they offer it, I guess it can't hurt to try! I can even have a spare on the
shelf for less in total than the cost of a Victron inverter charger and
separate charge controller, and still have money to spare. I have been
dabbling into the EG4 brand, mostly with clients that went ahead and bought
EG4 batteries before they ever met me, and I haven't had any real issues
other than battery to inverter closed loop comms. It's too early to say I'm
impressed, but the prices are in the too-good-to-be-true category. I don't
want to get off topic here with batteries and manufacturer reliability, but
I wanted to mention the EG4 6500EX-48, which seems like perfect specs for
this job.


And... I know... someone is probably thinking that we're up to a 9.6kWh
battery with a small 120V generator, and that's probably not a good match.
I get that, but the client expects the PV to handle all of their needs with
the generator only serving as an emergency backup. I have alerted them to
the potential mismatch. I still want a sizeable charger in case they
upgrade their generator for faster battery recharges.

Jason Szumlanski
Principal Solar Designer | Florida Solar Design Group
NABCEP Certified Solar Professional (PVIP)
Florida State Certified Solar Contractor CVC56956
Florida Certified Electrical Contractor EC13013208


On Wed, Apr 24, 2024 at 1:52 PM John Blittersdorf via RE-wrenches <
re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:

> Jason,
>   Just using the converter works fine. They are considered a battery
> charger or a regulated power supply. I am currently running that way now
> with the battery cables going nowhere.  I was thinking of putting the
> battery back in the system just for triple redundancy when my inverter hits
> low battery cutoff voltage on a cold winter night and no fuel for the
> generator (or it won't start).
> My Iota DLS puts out a regulated 13.4 volts up to 30 amps.
>
> John
>
> On Wed, Apr 24, 2024 at 8:25 AM Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches <
> re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:
>
>> Ah ha! I didn't consider using a small 12V battery with a charger. I was
>> thinking of just using a 120V -> 12V converter to handle the DC loads. Is
>> the 12V battery really necessary, or can I just power the DC loads directly
>> with a converter? If I just have lights and fans on the DC system, the load
>> should be pretty minimal.
>>
>> I could use a separate 12V battery, but I would like to eliminate that
>> cost and complexity if possible.
>>
>>
>> And yeah, I am not considering this a money making opportunity. It's
>> really just a challenge to ward off boredom from the daily grind.
>>
>> Jason Szumlanski
>> Principal Solar Designer | Florida Solar Design Group
>> NABCEP Certified Solar Professional (PVIP)
>> Florida State Certified Solar Contractor CVC56956
>> Florida Certified Electrical Contractor EC13013208
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Apr 24, 2024 at 8:01 AM John Blittersdorf via RE-wrenches <
>> re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:
>>
>>> Jason,
>>>   I have a customer with the same situation except he already has a 12 V
>>> VFX inverter,  He has a sunfrost fridge and other small loads with a very
>>> fancy custom control board
>>> originally set up to handle AC and DC systems.  We are adding a lot more
>>> solar and I was considering a dual battery system but the owner didn't like
>>> that idea.  We are going with and Iota 12v power supply (i use one at my
>>> house for my sunfrost) to power up all his DC loads and will be adding a
>>> large 48 V battery bank and over 4Kw of solar using a VFXR3648 directly in
>>> place of the 12V inverter.  He complained that the existing inverter would
>>> not 

Re: [RE-wrenches] Discover Xanbus SOC jumpy

[Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar via RE-wrenches]

You probably checked historical events and analysis below.

Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar
"we go where powerlines don't"
   [1]https://offgridsolar1.com/ [2]  [1]
e-mail  offgridso...@sti.net
text 209 813 0060

On 2024-05-03 10:30 am, Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar via RE-wrenches 
wrote:


Kent, Battery monitor is internal to 6650 battery. No bat mon!  
Probably as you said the xanbus comms need a look as Mac said.


Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar
"we go where powerlines don't"
[1]https://offgridsolar1.com/ [2]  [1]
e-mail  offgridso...@sti.net
text 209 813 0060

On 2024-05-03 10:24 am, Kent via RE-wrenches wrote:

Mac,

I have a system that does this (or something similar) with all of the 
Insight data a few times every day. I'm pretty sure it is lost data 
resulting from communications drop outs. Internet to the site is via 
StarLink. If you are only seeing this on the SOC data there might be a 
problem with the Xanbus connection to the battery monitor. Since the 
SOC returns to the correct value for the next data packet, I'm pretty 
sure that there is nothing wrong with the battery monitor. Kent 
Osterberg

Blue Mountain Solar

On 5/3/2024 6:54 AM, Mac Lewis via RE-wrenches wrote:
Hello Wrenches,

I have a system that suddenly started seeing quite a few SOC drops and 
blips, causing generator starts.


Here is an example SOC chart:

I plan to head up and apply a firmware update on the batteries, check 
cabling etc but Im curious if anyone has encountered/solved this issue.


Much appreciated.
--

Mac Lewis

"Yo solo sé que no sé nada." -Sócrates
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Discover Xanbus SOC jumpy

[Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar via RE-wrenches]

Kent, Battery monitor is internal to 6650 battery. No bat mon!  Probably 
as you said the xanbus comms need a look as Mac said.


Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar
"we go where powerlines don't"
   [1]https://offgridsolar1.com/ [2]  [1]
e-mail  offgridso...@sti.net
text 209 813 0060

On 2024-05-03 10:24 am, Kent via RE-wrenches wrote:


Mac,

I have a system that does this (or something similar) with all of the 
Insight data a few times every day. I'm pretty sure it is lost data 
resulting from communications drop outs. Internet to the site is via 
StarLink. If you are only seeing this on the SOC data there might be a 
problem with the Xanbus connection to the battery monitor. Since the 
SOC returns to the correct value for the next data packet, I'm pretty 
sure that there is nothing wrong with the battery monitor. Kent 
Osterberg

Blue Mountain Solar

On 5/3/2024 6:54 AM, Mac Lewis via RE-wrenches wrote:


Hello Wrenches,

I have a system that suddenly started seeing quite a few SOC drops and 
blips, causing generator starts.


Here is an example SOC chart:

I plan to head up and apply a firmware update on the batteries, check 
cabling etc but Im curious if anyone has encountered/solved this 
issue.


Much appreciated.
--

Mac Lewis

"Yo solo sé que no sé nada." -Sócrates


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Re: [RE-wrenches] Discover Xanbus SOC jumpy

[Kent via RE-wrenches]

Mac,

I have a system that does this (or something similar) with all of the 
Insight data a few times every day. I'm pretty sure it is lost data 
resulting from communications drop outs. Internet to the site is via 
StarLink. If you are only seeing this on the SOC data there might be a 
problem with the Xanbus connection to the battery monitor. Since the SOC 
returns to the correct value for the next data packet, I'm pretty sure 
that there is nothing wrong with the battery monitor.


Kent Osterberg
Blue Mountain Solar


On 5/3/2024 6:54 AM, Mac Lewis via RE-wrenches wrote:

Hello Wrenches,

I have a system that suddenly started seeing quite a few SOC drops and 
blips, causing generator starts.


Here is an example SOC chart:

image.png

I plan to head up and apply a firmware update on the batteries, check 
cabling etc but Im curious if anyone has encountered/solved this issue.


Much appreciated.

--



Mac Lewis

*

"Yo solo sé que no sé nada." -Sócrates

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[RE-wrenches] IRA Domestic Content Bonus Credit

[AE Solar via RE-wrenches]

Wrenches,
I'm wondering if any of you have thoughts/experience with the additional
10% ITC that the Inflation Reduction Act allocates for "domestic content".
I'm doing some googling but not really sure what equipment (racking,
panels, inverters, BOM, etc) we would need to install in order to qualify
for this, and what the parameters are to qualify something as 'domestic
content'. If anyone has rough thoughts or information sources to share I'm
all ears...
Adam

Adam Katzman (he/him)
Autonomous Energies | Owner/Operator
www.AutonomousEnergies.com 
(518) 567-1468
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Discover AES explosion!

[Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar via RE-wrenches]

The 6650 definitely meets all the UL's, ETLs, and UN's. Probably the 
first one to do this and since Michael said that it is a first for 
Discover, the jury is out until an FA is complete.


Good points by you Larry, but not valid for many thousands of Discover 
AES 6650s.


Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar
"we go where powerlines don't"
   [1]https://offgridsolar1.com/ [2]  [1]
e-mail  offgridso...@sti.net
text 209 813 0060

On 2024-05-03 9:23 am, Starlight via RE-wrenches wrote:


Hi Michael,

For 11 years I've been in the Li battery business. We formerly designed 
and installed over a hundred Li battery based systems, mostly mobile 
installations but UPS and off-grid as well. Since 2018, we no longer do 
installations.  Currently we sell our own Li-ion brand with many 
thousands sold and in use. We have not had any fire or explosion 
claims.


Most Li batteries sold in the US are not UL1973 or ETL certified. Many 
batteries are very cheaply made to have the lowest price. Based on my 
experience I consider any battery not certified as potentially 
dangerous. I don't know if Discover is certified and make no statement 
about them.


An important question is what will an insurance company do if there is 
a claim and the product you install is not certified to these high 
safety standards? Worth considering.


Larry Crutcher
Starlight Power Systems

On May 3, 2024, at 8:21 AM, Michael Morningstar via RE-wrenches 
 wrote:


Two days ago, one of my clients came home to find the door of his 
powershed blown off its hinges and a smoldering Discover AES. The case 
was still intact and the entire room is coated with a fine 
graphite-like powder. The fire department was unable/unwilling to do 
anything to cool the battery down and it smoldered for a day. 199 
degrees fahrenheit after 18 hours. Discover is taking this seriously 
and their response has been great. They are in contact with the cell 
manufacturer to find a "best practices" for the clean up of the room. 
They also have said that this is a first for them (lucky me).


I'm just curious how rare or common LiFePO 4 explosions are? I've never 
heard of one in the context of residential storage. This has me pretty 
freaked out.


Michael Morningstar

Morningstar Electric Inc
PO Box 1494
Mount Shasta, CA 96067
530-921-0560
CSLB 1116835
mjmornings...@gmail.com

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Re: [RE-wrenches] Discover AES explosion!

[Starlight via RE-wrenches]

Hi Michael,

For 11 years I’ve been in the Li battery business. We formerly designed and 
installed over a hundred Li battery based systems, mostly mobile installations 
but UPS and off-grid as well. Since 2018, we no longer do installations.  
Currently we sell our own Li-ion brand with many thousands sold and in use. We 
have not had any fire or explosion claims.

Most Li batteries sold in the US are not UL1973 or ETL certified. Many 
batteries are very cheaply made to have the lowest price. Based on my 
experience I consider any battery not certified as potentially dangerous. I 
don’t know if Discover is certified and make no statement about them. 

An important question is what will an insurance company do if there is a claim 
and the product you install is not certified to these high safety standards? 
Worth considering.

Larry Crutcher
Starlight Power Systems




On May 3, 2024, at 8:21 AM, Michael Morningstar via RE-wrenches 
 wrote:

Two days ago, one of my clients came home to find the door of his powershed 
blown off its hinges and a smoldering Discover AES. The case was still intact 
and the entire room is coated with a fine graphite-like powder. The fire 
department was unable/unwilling to do anything to cool the battery down and it 
smoldered for a day. 199 degrees fahrenheit after 18 hours. Discover is taking 
this seriously and their response has been great. They are in contact with the 
cell manufacturer to find a "best practices" for the clean up of the room. They 
also have said that this is a first for them (lucky me).

I'm just curious how rare or common LiFePO 4 explosions are? I've never heard 
of one in the context of residential storage. This has me pretty freaked out.

Michael Morningstar 

Morningstar Electric Inc
PO Box 1494
Mount Shasta, CA 96067
530-921-0560
CSLB 1116835
mjmornings...@gmail.com 

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Re: [RE-wrenches] Discover Xanbus SOC jumpy

[Mac Lewis via RE-wrenches]

It's 6 stack of Discover 42-48-6650. Reported voltage dives when SOC goes
down, but it's not real, the Schneider doesn't see the same dip in voltage
so it appears to be a communication issue.

Thanks

On Fri, May 3, 2024, 8:28 AM Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar via RE-wrenches <
re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:

> Which model?  Do you see the same dips in voltage? Probably yes.
> Are all the batts the same firmware?
> The AES dashboard can be useful for finding a differing module.
> No I have not seen this and only have had one bad battery that was
> replaced by AES. Yes check all wiring. Good Luck!
>
>
>
>
> *Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar
> "we go where powerlines don't"
>https://offgridsolar1.com/ 
>   
> e-mail  offgridso...@sti.net 
> text 209 813 0060*
>
>
> On 2024-05-03 6:54 am, Mac Lewis via RE-wrenches wrote:
>
> Hello Wrenches,
>
> I have a system that suddenly started seeing quite a few SOC drops and
> blips, causing generator starts.
>
> Here is an example SOC chart:
>
> [image: image.png]
>
> I plan to head up and apply a firmware update on the batteries, check
> cabling etc but Im curious if anyone has encountered/solved this issue.
>
> Much appreciated.
>
> --
>
>
>
> Mac Lewis
>
> "Yo solo sé que no sé nada." -Sócrates
>
> ___
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>
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>
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Discover AES explosion!

[Michael Morningstar via RE-wrenches]

Yes, it is a 6650. It's neighbor survived, we think. Might be able to pull
data off it or the Lynk II


On Fri, May 3, 2024 at 8:33 AM Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar via RE-wrenches <
re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:

> Never heard of one with LFP. The cobalt and Magnesium Lions are definitely
> out there. Was this a 6650 model Michael?
> Going to be fun times doing a failure analysis on this one.
>
>
>
> *Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar
> "we go where powerlines don't"
>https://offgridsolar1.com/ 
>   
> e-mail  offgridso...@sti.net 
> text 209 813 0060*
>
>
> On 2024-05-03 8:21 am, Michael Morningstar via RE-wrenches wrote:
>
> Two days ago, one of my clients came home to find the door of his
> powershed blown off its hinges and a smoldering Discover AES. The case was
> still intact and the entire room is coated with a fine graphite-like
> powder. The fire department was unable/unwilling to do anything to cool the
> battery down and it smoldered for a day. 199 degrees fahrenheit after 18
> hours. Discover is taking this seriously and their response has been great.
> They are in contact with the cell manufacturer to find a "best practices"
> for the clean up of the room. They also have said that this is a first for
> them (lucky me).
>
> I'm just curious how rare or common LiFePO 4 explosions are? I've never
> heard of one in the context of residential storage. This has me pretty
> freaked out.
>
>
>
> Michael Morningstar
>
>
>
> Morningstar Electric Inc
>
> PO Box 1494
>
> Mount Shasta, CA 96067
>
> 530-921-0560
>
> CSLB 1116835
>
> mjmornings...@gmail.com
>
>
>
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-- 

Michael Morningstar


Morningstar Electric Inc

PO Box 1494

Mount Shasta, CA 96067

530-921-0560

CSLB 1116835

mjmornings...@gmail.com
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Discover AES explosion!

[Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar via RE-wrenches]

Never heard of one with LFP. The cobalt and Magnesium Lions are 
definitely out there. Was this a 6650 model Michael?

Going to be fun times doing a failure analysis on this one.

Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar
"we go where powerlines don't"
   [1]https://offgridsolar1.com/ [2]  [1]
e-mail  offgridso...@sti.net
text 209 813 0060

On 2024-05-03 8:21 am, Michael Morningstar via RE-wrenches wrote:

Two days ago, one of my clients came home to find the door of his 
powershed blown off its hinges and a smoldering Discover AES. The case 
was still intact and the entire room is coated with a fine 
graphite-like powder. The fire department was unable/unwilling to do 
anything to cool the battery down and it smoldered for a day. 199 
degrees fahrenheit after 18 hours. Discover is taking this seriously 
and their response has been great. They are in contact with the cell 
manufacturer to find a "best practices" for the clean up of the room. 
They also have said that this is a first for them (lucky me).


I'm just curious how rare or common LiFePO 4 explosions are? I've never 
heard of one in the context of residential storage. This has me pretty 
freaked out.


Michael Morningstar

Morningstar Electric Inc

PO Box 1494

Mount Shasta, CA 96067

530-921-0560

CSLB 1116835

mjmornings...@gmail.com

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[RE-wrenches] Discover AES explosion!

[Michael Morningstar via RE-wrenches]

Two days ago, one of my clients came home to find the door of his powershed
blown off its hinges and a smoldering Discover AES. The case was still
intact and the entire room is coated with a fine graphite-like powder. The
fire department was unable/unwilling to do anything to cool the battery
down and it smoldered for a day. 199 degrees fahrenheit after 18 hours.
Discover is taking this seriously and their response has been great. They
are in contact with the cell manufacturer to find a "best practices" for
the clean up of the room. They also have said that this is a first for them
(lucky me).

I'm just curious how rare or common LiFePO 4 explosions are? I've never
heard of one in the context of residential storage. This has me pretty
freaked out.

Michael Morningstar


Morningstar Electric Inc

PO Box 1494

Mount Shasta, CA 96067

530-921-0560

CSLB 1116835

mjmornings...@gmail.com
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Re: [RE-wrenches] alte gone?

[Sam Haraldson via RE-wrenches]

Nicholas,

If we take a deep dive into this issue we may be able to close the loop on
whether the industry is in lock step to leverage its synergy and make the
necessary paradigm shift to pivot.  Alternatively if there aren't the
necessary boots on the ground nor tools in the tool kit to think outside of
the box then the issue may just get tabled.

So long and thanks for all the fish,
Sam Haraldson
Montana

#happyfriday
#re-bitching
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[RE-wrenches] alte gone?

[Nicholas Ponzio via RE-wrenches]

Is the altestore kaput? Their website is still active but their phones are
disconnected. What's the scuttlebutt? Is there some way I can squeeze one
more old fashioned slang term into this email? No? Malarkey!

Also, is RE-bitching still active? The archives are still available but the
search feature doesn't work...


--
Nicholas Ponzio
Building Energy
1570 South Brownell Road
Williston, VT 05495
Book a virtual meeting with me

Text or Voice Call: 802-318-7003
Email: npon...@buildingenergyus.com
http://www.BuildingEnergyVT.com 

"Building Solutions for a Sustainable Future"
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Discover Xanbus SOC jumpy

[Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar via RE-wrenches]

Which model?  Do you see the same dips in voltage? Probably yes.
Are all the batts the same firmware?
The AES dashboard can be useful for finding a differing module.
No I have not seen this and only have had one bad battery that was 
replaced by AES. Yes check all wiring. Good Luck!


Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar
"we go where powerlines don't"
   [1]https://offgridsolar1.com/ [2]  [1]
e-mail  offgridso...@sti.net
text 209 813 0060

On 2024-05-03 6:54 am, Mac Lewis via RE-wrenches wrote:


Hello Wrenches,

I have a system that suddenly started seeing quite a few SOC drops and 
blips, causing generator starts.


Here is an example SOC chart:

I plan to head up and apply a firmware update on the batteries, check 
cabling etc but Im curious if anyone has encountered/solved this issue.


Much appreciated.
--

Mac Lewis

"Yo solo sé que no sé nada." -Sócrates
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[RE-wrenches] Discover Xanbus SOC jumpy

[Mac Lewis via RE-wrenches]

Hello Wrenches,

I have a system that suddenly started seeing quite a few SOC drops and
blips, causing generator starts.

Here is an example SOC chart:

[image: image.png]

I plan to head up and apply a firmware update on the batteries, check
cabling etc but Im curious if anyone has encountered/solved this issue.

Much appreciated.

-- 



Mac Lewis

*"Yo solo sé que no sé nada." -Sócrates*
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