Re: [RE-wrenches] Simpliphi Phi 3.8 48V Case Color

[Bill Battagin via RE-wrenches]

The change from Black case to White case was about 3.5 years ago.  The 
current white case version is either open loop (SimpliPhi 3.8M) or 
closed loop (AmpliPhi 3.8M)


Feather River Solar Electric
Bill Battagin, owner
4291 Nelson St. (Shipping)
5575 Genesee Rd. (USPS, UPS)
Taylorsville, CA  95983
530-284-7849, 258-1641(cell)
CA. C10 Lic # 874049
Solar Powered since 1982
Home of the Sunny Side Up

On 5/29/2024 11:49 AM, Ray Walters via RE-wrenches wrote:


Black case 48v are older, probably in the 5 to 6 year range. I can't 
comment on exactly when they made the change from black plastic to 
white metal, but I just did a warranty replacement of old black 
plastic models with new white metal ones. I would think paralleling 
would not be a good idea, because of the age difference. As with lead 
acid, you probably could get away with it, but I don't think they 
would charge and discharge evenly. IMHO, those are too expensive to 
play with.


Ray Walters
Remote Solar

On 5/29/2024 5:14 AM, Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches wrote:
Is there a difference in the batteries in a white case vs. black 
case? Are they compatible in terms of paralleling them?


Secondary question - I can't find the maximum number of these 
batteries in parallel. Is anyone aware of the capacity limit?



Jason Szumlanski
Florida Solar Design Group
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Simpliphi Phi 3.8 48V Case Color

[Bill Battagin via RE-wrenches]

To be clear, I asked SimpliPhi only about their open comm 48V 3.8 batteries.

Bill

Feather River Solar Electric
Bill Battagin, owner
4291 Nelson St. (Shipping)
5575 Genesee Rd. (USPS, UPS)
Taylorsville, CA  95983
530-284-7849, 258-1641(cell)
CA. C10 Lic # 874049
Solar Powered since 1982
Home of the Sunny Side Up

On 5/29/2024 4:14 AM, Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches wrote:
Is there a difference in the batteries in a white case vs. black case? 
Are they compatible in terms of paralleling them?


Secondary question - I can't find the maximum number of these 
batteries in parallel. Is anyone aware of the capacity limit?



Jason Szumlanski
Florida Solar Design Group
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Simpliphi Phi 3.8 48V Case Color

[Bill Battagin via RE-wrenches]

Jason,

            I called SimpliPhi on this before I added 4 more 3.8M 
(white, steel case) to a pack of 8 of the older black plastic case 
3.8's.  They told me it was no problem, this now pack of 12 has been in 
service for about 7 months.  Of course there is a procedure for marrying 
batteries in this way being sure all batteries are fully charged before 
the parallel wiring is commissioned as one pack.  They told me once what 
the max number was but it's slipped my mind, it was way more than I 
remember thinking I could ever need for an install.


Bill

Feather River Solar Electric
Bill Battagin, owner
4291 Nelson St. (Shipping)
5575 Genesee Rd. (USPS, UPS)
Taylorsville, CA  95983
530-284-7849, 258-1641(cell)
CA. C10 Lic # 874049
Solar Powered since 1982
Home of the Sunny Side Up

On 5/29/2024 4:14 AM, Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches wrote:
Is there a difference in the batteries in a white case vs. black case? 
Are they compatible in terms of paralleling them?


Secondary question - I can't find the maximum number of these 
batteries in parallel. Is anyone aware of the capacity limit?



Jason Szumlanski
Florida Solar Design Group
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Re: [RE-wrenches] NOS SMA-41

[Bill Battagin via RE-wrenches]

Jeremy,

            You looking for new or used?  Could it be a -40?

Bill

Feather River Solar Electric
Bill Battagin, owner
4291 Nelson St. (Shipping)
5575 Genesee Rd. (USPS, UPS)
Taylorsville, CA  95983
530-284-7849, 258-1641(cell)
CA. C10 Lic # 874049
Solar Powered since 1982
Home of the Sunny Side Up

On 5/28/2024 4:51 AM, Jeremy Rodriguez via RE-wrenches wrote:
Looking for an SB3.8-1SP-US-41 if anyone has one please contact me off 
list



Jeremy Rodriguez
Solar Installation / Design
All Solar, Inc.
1453 M St.
Penrose Colorado 81240

Sent by Jeremy's iPhone. Sorry for typos and shorthand.

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Re: [RE-wrenches] NOS SMA-41

[Bill Battagin via RE-wrenches]

Jeremy,

            You looking for new or used?

Bill

Feather River Solar Electric
Bill Battagin, owner
4291 Nelson St. (Shipping)
5575 Genesee Rd. (USPS, UPS)
Taylorsville, CA  95983
530-284-7849, 258-1641(cell)
CA. C10 Lic # 874049
Solar Powered since 1982
Home of the Sunny Side Up

On 5/28/2024 4:51 AM, Jeremy Rodriguez via RE-wrenches wrote:
Looking for an SB3.8-1SP-US-41 if anyone has one please contact me off 
list



Jeremy Rodriguez
Solar Installation / Design
All Solar, Inc.
1453 M St.
Penrose Colorado 81240

Sent by Jeremy's iPhone. Sorry for typos and shorthand.

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Re: [RE-wrenches] 120 Vac and 12Vdc mixed distribution system

[Bill Battagin via RE-wrenches]

I'll just say I hope there are manufacturers of the equipment we are 
using who are diligently reading our conversations here.  They must know 
how us Beta-testers (AKA: installers) are fairing with their shining new 
versions of the stuff we install and become married to a positive 
outcome for our customers and really the future of solar, hopefully not 
at the cost of our sanity.


        Personally, so far we've been happy with the switch to 
SimpliPhi's batteries though I'm sure we're not installing the quantity 
that many on the list are.  Most have been in Outback/Midnite systems of 
varying ages.


Bill

Feather River Solar Electric
Bill Battagin, owner
4291 Nelson St. (Shipping)
5575 Genesee Rd. (USPS, UPS)
Taylorsville, CA  95983
530-284-7849, 258-1641(cell)
CA. C10 Lic # 874049
Solar Powered since 1982
Home of the Sunny Side Up

On 4/25/2024 11:08 AM, Michael Morningstar via RE-wrenches wrote:

Ray,
I'm in the same situation. My strategic plan was to work into early 
old age ( in 20-25 years). But now, I spend half of my time 
troubleshooting and replacing equipment on my dime. Between that, 
competing with Grid-Tied guys, and having to justify my mark-up to 
clients comparing my pricing to NAZ's, It's just not worth it anymore. 
Where I'm at, there's little commercial or industrial electrical work 
to be had so it's likely my future is pulling rope through attics and 
crawl spaces.


Yes, the Magnum equipment produced for the first five or so years was 
extremely reliable. Same for the Outback, maybe less so. I was 
thinking that the only repairs I had to make on SWs was replacing 
transfer relays and that was only a few out of countless systems. I 
think it was Bob-O who many years ago introduced me to the saying 
"it's a race to the bottom" : )


I tried EG4's in my own system when at 15 years my Rolls reached the 
end. I also tried them in a customers system. Absolute nightmare. I 
don't know which is worse, the batteries or Signature Solar.


On Thu, Apr 25, 2024 at 10:36 AM Ray Walters via RE-wrenches 
 wrote:


Hi Michael;

I don't think its 12v, I have old Trace 48 v systems still humming
along 24 years later, too. Some of it, is the customers.  The old
school off grid folks knew how to conserve energy, watch the sun,
and were not going to call unless they couldn't fix it themselves.

Also, the equipment was built much better back then for sure, I
have a new Magnum install that is just a disaster, voltage dips
below 100 vac, every time any larger load goes on (well pump,
garbage disposal, fridge, coffee maker) and I've replaced 3 BMK
battery monitors under warranty so far. Apparently you can NOT
disconnect or connect the BMK with its built in 4 pin *connector*,
or it will smoke the unit.  That is a new problem, they used to be
robust.  I have many older Magnum systems that are great.  Magnum
quality has taken a huge dive since being acquired by Sensata.

If it wasn't for Trace, old Outback, and old Magnum stuff being
reliable, I would have gone out of business decades ago.  Now it
looks like I need to find a new line of work, just a few years
before retirement, because manufacturers no longer prioritize
reliability.  Meanwhile Li+ is what new customers expect, yet its
still not ready for prime time, either.  I have an installer buddy
that is having all sorts of trouble with an EG4 battery setup, and
the installation isn't even complete. He's already had to dark
start them several times, and now they won't even stay operational
for more than a few minutes.  The cheapo BMS lears its ugly head
once again.  All we're doing lately is fixing stuff less than 5
years old.

Ray Walters
Remote Solar

On 4/25/2024 9:52 AM, Michael Morningstar via RE-wrenches wrote:

Here's a different take. Just food for thought and not
necessarily a suggestion. Those 1st or 2nd Gen 12V systems
were/are for me the most reliable and trouble free systems. I'd
install one and never hear back from my customer for a decade or
more. I regularly see "rats nest" wired 12V/Trace DR/UX hybrid
systems with Arco panels that still hum along. When I get asked
to update these systems, assuming that the power needs haven't
grown much, I usually keep the voltages the same (12VDC and
120VAC), sanitize the wiring, add OCPDs, Victron smart
shunt/Battery monitor, Victron CC and inverter, and Lead Acids or
AGM's. Good for another 20 years with batteries being replaced in
10. With only a few exceptions, every ancient system that I have
tried to bring into the 21st century for my low needs off-grid
pioneers has been a flop. Inverters and Charge controllers that
take a dump after a few years, TMI with new monitor/controllers,
and lots of headaches with Lithium.

Now, if we're talking about a client who has just purchased a
property with a legacy system 

Re: [RE-wrenches] midnite new inverter

[Bill Battagin via RE-wrenches]

John,

            Just curious if you had SPDs (like Midnites) in either 
system?  AC side, DC side


Bill

Feather River Solar Electric
Bill Battagin, owner
4291 Nelson St. (Shipping)
5575 Genesee Rd. (USPS, UPS)
Taylorsville, CA  95983
530-284-7849, 258-1641(cell)
CA. C10 Lic # 874049
Solar Powered since 1982
Home of the Sunny Side Up

On 4/10/2024 6:01 AM, John Blittersdorf via RE-wrenches wrote:
Time will tell where the failure modes are.   I still don't like all 
the eggs in one basket. Do you have to send the units back for 
repair?  Had enough of that with Trace SW series inverters..
For off grid, I'll stick to the tried and true for now. For Grid tie 
it is just a financial hit.  For off-grid power loss it is more 
important to deal with right away..


I am going to try a Fortress Envy at my off grid home but will keep my 
Outback field repairable VFXR wired in just in case. I had a massive 
lightning strike between my house and a guest cabin 1/4 mile away and 
I lost power from my Fortress Eflex battery at the cabin and my 
Outback inverter at my house.  I replaced the control board on my 
inverter ( I always keep one in reserve as it is usually the only 
board failure due to lightning)  and was back on line in 1/2 hour and 
Fortress rushed me a new BMS board for the E-flex and a day later and 
a half hour swap had it back in service,  Now it is a different story 
with 2 Simpliphi batteries I have from a customer that failed.  I have 
to ship them to California to have them evaluated to see if we had 
damaged them by misuse. Lots of expense and time lost.



John Blittersdorf
CV Wind Service / Off Grid Vermont
802-770-8625

On Tue, Apr 9, 2024 at 11:43 PM Scot Arey via RE-wrenches 
 wrote:


Wow, are we in the golden age of inverter/chargers? If it had
200-a.p pass thru it would be near perfect.

Begs the question: are stand alone charge controllers becoming a
historical artifact?

Howard "Scot" Arey
Owner, Solar CenTex
254-300-1228
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[RE-wrenches] Snow mitigation

[Bill Battagin via RE-wrenches]

I've been consulting and helping a friend with a mountaintop PV powered 
radio system ~7,000' in the No.Sierras. We installed another array this 
fall but at 60 degree tilt we're still having problems with snow 
accumulation on the PVs, plus once the weather passes it stays too cold 
to melt in the bright sun we need to get SOC back up.  Yes, there is 
genny back-up, but that's no fun for a solar fanatic.


            Some wrenches have done this kind of install I know, it 
would be great to hear of ways to prevent snow from sticking?, ways to 
shed it unattended, right? Laser from valley floor!


Thanks,

Bill

Feather River Solar Electric
Bill Battagin, owner
4291 Nelson St. (Shipping)
5575 Genesee Rd. (USPS, UPS)
Taylorsville, CA  95983
530-284-7849, 258-1641(cell)
CA. C10 Lic # 874049
Solar Powered since 1982
Home of the Sunny Side Up


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Re: [RE-wrenches] Cable sizing for high current modules? NEC interpretation/guidance?

[Bill Battagin via RE-wrenches]

Ray,

            Exactly the same thing happened for me on a ground mount 
system, 3500 feet elevation the the Sierras so open cooler air, fully 
engaged MC4 factory connectors PV to PV connectors with SW285's, not 
passing current, melted.  No attempt to contact SW just made up new 
connectors.


            My calculation is with anything that is no doubt made up by 
the bazillion with a machine (connectors, light bulbs, pencils, chicken 
nuggets, etc) you're going to get some duds.  In 20+ years of installing 
PVs with factory made-up connectors, I've only seen this happen 2-3 
times.  Installing in the mountains we no doubt use ground mount much 
more often than most installs in urban areas which would make a hot, 
melted connector possibly more of an issue a couple inches above a comp 
or wood roof.  We've never seen any connectors fail beyond the 
melted/deformed but still "contained" stage .


            Back when SW was first transitioning from one connector to 
another, I remember them saying they (I think it was UTX and MC or was 
it UTX and Amphenol?) were compatible.  We NEVER mixed connectors 
despite their claim.


Bill

Feather River Solar Electric
4291 Nelson St. (Shipping)
5575 Genesee Rd. (USPS, UPS)
Taylorsville, CA  95983
530-284-7849, 258-1641(cell)
CA. C10 Lic # 874049
Solar Powered since 1982
Home of the Sunny Side Up

On 11/9/2023 4:31 PM, Ray Walters via RE-wrenches wrote:


I'm trying to find a pic to post, but they were MC4 connectors, not 
the UTX.


Ray

On 11/9/2023 4:57 PM, Brian Mehalic wrote:
Are they the Amohenol UTX connectors? SW had a recall on them, sounds 
like about the right timeframe.


BREAKING: SolarWorld recalls PV modules with Amphenol connectors 

pv-magazine-usa.com 






Brian

On Nov 9, 2023, at 4:47 PM, Ray Walters via RE-wrenches 
 wrote:




12 Ga wire is not going to catch on fire, but the MC connectors 
might.  I just went back on a 7 yr old Solarworld install, and had a 
bad series MC connector (module to module).  It got quite crispy, 
deforming and bubbling the plastic on both sides of the connection. 
It was still passing current; I didn't get a chance to measure the 
volt drop.  It was completely plugged in, so not an installation issue.


This was not one of our connectors made up in the field, these were 
Solarworld factory connectors on both sides, same model modules.  
That also means no mismatch of "MC4" connector type.


10+ amps continuous, moist environment, 30F+  hotter than ambient 
temp, all are tough on connectors.  I predict more connector 
failures as module current ratings increase.


Ray Walters
Remote Solar

On 11/9/2023 3:02 PM, Glenn Burt via RE-wrenches wrote:


Good luck trying to convince your customer that their house caught 
on fire because of a manufacturers flaw, and you have no 
responsibility for it…


It may be an out to shift the blame, but it only makes everybody 
get some on them…


*From:* RE-wrenches  *On 
Behalf Of *William Miller via RE-wrenches

*Sent:* Wednesday, November 08, 2023 12:14 PM
*To:* RE-wrenches 
*Cc:* William Miller 
*Subject:* Re: [RE-wrenches] Cable sizing for high current modules? 
NEC interpretation/guidance?


George:

Appliance manufacturers have their own requirements that are not 
the same as the NEC requirements.  As long as you are not modifying 
the manufactured assembly you are not responsible for compliance of 
that appliance.  By appliance, I mean the solar module, 
microinverter, etc.


William Miller

Miller Solar

17395 Oak Road, Atascadero, CA 93422

805-438-5600

www.millersolar.com 

CA Lic. 773985

*From:*RE-wrenches 
[mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] *On Behalf Of 
*George McClellan via RE-wrenches

*Sent:* Wednesday, November 8, 2023 9:06 AM
*To:* RE-wrenches
*Cc:* George McClellan
*Subject:* [RE-wrenches] Cable sizing for high current modules? NEC 
interpretation/guidance?


Team;

With the move to larger cells, some modules have an Isc that is 
pushing the limits of 12 AWG wire.  If I apply the rule of 156% (or 
125% solar derate*125% continuous load derate) to an 18 Amp Isc 
module this will exceed the 25A that a 12 AWG wire can carry.  I 
understand that the homeruns will need to be a larger AWG (10 ga), 
but do the solar module cables (from junction box to MC4) also need 
to be larger?  Any guidance or reference material would be greatly 
appreciated.


Thx,

George McClellan | Senior Technical Sales Manager | REC Americas LLC

330 James Way Ste 150| Pismo Beach, CA 93449| USA

Cell phone +1 805 704 3226 | Fax +1 805 357 6104

www.recgroup.com  | 
george.mcclel...@recgroup.com 

[RE-wrenches] Big Ag water

[Bill Battagin via RE-wrenches]

Ag water wrenches,

            I've been asked about the feasibility of pumping 2,000 
gallons/minute (mid-day) from a pond to open discharge at 40 feet of 
head, 1,000 ft run.  PV direct. Multiple Grundfos pumps? Any experience 
appreciated


Bill

Feather River Solar Electric
4291 Nelson St. (Shipping)
5575 Genesee Rd. (USPS, UPS)
Taylorsville, CA  95983
530-284-7849, 258-1641(cell)
CA. C10 Lic # 874049
Solar Powered since 1982
Home of the Sunny Side Up


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[RE-wrenches] Just getting old?

[Bill Battagin via RE-wrenches]

I went back to this array, removed all J-box covers and tested for Voc.  
The majority of the PVs were ~ 9.5Voc, about 5 were ~19 Voc, 3 were 0 
(that's zero) Voc .  The diodes are in an encapsulant.  The label says 
Voc = 22V. Another array of Mitsubishi panels takes a dive.


            Anybody have contact info for them or recent experience 
with their warranty?


Thanks,

Bill

Feather River Solar Electric
Bill Battagin, Owner
4291 Nelson St.(shipping)
5575 Genesee Rd. (USPS, UPS)
Taylorsville, CA 95983
530.284.1925 Office/ 530.258.1641 Cell
CA Lic 874049
Solar powered since 1982

On 5/17/2023 10:25 PM, Darryl Thayer via RE-wrenches wrote:
Was the inverter connected at the time of testing?  If so I suspect 
the inverter is loading the solar array below Vmp


On Wed, May 17, 2023 at 11:23 PM frenergy via RE-wrenches 
 wrote:


Wrenches,

         I've got a call from a customer that said their (my
install) 17 year old GT system went dead. Basic stats: 23, Mitsubishi
PVMF120EC3, label says V mpp= 17.6V and Voc = 22 V; top-of-pole; SMA
SB3800U. Its one string of 23 PVs.  Full sun, 75 degrees ambient
during
testing. When I checked DC voltage at the inverter landings I got
~23-29
volts (fluctuating) same at the input side of the DC switch. These
panels have the old gasketted 4-screw covered J-boxes and screw
terminals inside, I removed the covers from three panels and got 9.5
volts at the each of the panels' screw terminals,  all the wiring
outside the boxes checks out.

         The system had been functioning normally 3 weeks
prior. I
could check voltage at more panels I guess.  Ideas?

Bill

Feather River Solar Electric
Bill Battagin, Owner
4291 Nelson St.(shipping)
5575 Genesee Rd. (USPS, UPS)
Taylorsville, CA 95983
530.284.1925 Office/ 530.258.1641 Cell
CA Lic 874049
Solar powered since 1982


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