Re: [RE-wrenches] OutBack FX Internal Fan running 24/7
No From: RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of Jay Sent: Sunday, April 30, 2017 10:27 AM To: RE-wrenches Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] OutBack FX Internal Fan running 24/7 Hi Dave, Did you replace the temp sensor? Jay Peltz power. On Apr 30, 2017, at 6:30 AM, Dave Palumbo <palumbo1...@gmail.com> wrote: Wrenches, We recently swapped in a new internal fan on a OB FX 2524T after the original fan stopped working on the 6 yr old inverter. Now the new internal fan is running all the time. Unrelated to temperature (Air, Fet and Cap temps all good). I've tried removing all loads from the inverter and also resetting the inverter (off/on). OutBack tech support says the control board is the most likely cause of this problem and that I should buy a new board and swap that in. Or, as another option he said I could let the fan continue to run 24/7. Any advice? Thanks, Dave David Palumbo Independent Power LLC 462 Solar Way Drive Hyde Park, VT 05655 802-371-8678 cell 802-888-4917 home ___ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] OutBack FX Internal Fan running 24/7
Wrenches, We recently swapped in a new internal fan on a OB FX 2524T after the original fan stopped working on the 6 yr old inverter. Now the new internal fan is running all the time. Unrelated to temperature (Air, Fet and Cap temps all good). I've tried removing all loads from the inverter and also resetting the inverter (off/on). OutBack tech support says the control board is the most likely cause of this problem and that I should buy a new board and swap that in. Or, as another option he said I could let the fan continue to run 24/7. Any advice? Thanks, Dave David Palumbo Independent Power LLC 462 Solar Way Drive Hyde Park, VT 05655 802-371-8678 cell 802-888-4917 home ___ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Failed L16 with perfect Sp.Gr.
Not familiar with LG RESU 10 battery. What are they and why do you like them Dave? Thanks, David Palumbo Independent Power LLC 462 Solar Way Drive Hyde Park, VT 05655 802-371-8678 cell 802-888-4917 home -Original Message- From: RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar Sent: Thursday, April 27, 2017 12:22 PM To: RE-wrenches Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Failed L16 with perfect Sp.Gr. The FLIR is nice but SG and voltage would have told the same thing, would it not? I have excellent experience with the L16 2V cells but will be switching to the LG RESU 10 very soon for my clients. ___ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Hydro Off-grid Battery Sizing
Hi Matt, Short answer is yes, 2 days of autonomy should be fine. I am presently operating our off rid PV/hydro system at well under two days of autonomy. I just crunched some numbers for our situation here in Vermont. Off grid system that is now 4.3kW PV and with a Harris micro-hydro turbine that I run at 325 Watts. · 24v system initially installed 30 years ago and with PV and inverters (dual OutBack) upgraded 7 years ago. · Present Battery bank now over 13 years old, 2v industrial flooded LA's rated at 1200 AH. Originally designed for 3+ days of autonomy. · Our large home has been a true two family home for the past three years, with a full second kitchen along with TV etc. we are now using about 15kWh/day during the winter. Our Tarm wood gasification, forced hot water heating system uses quite a bit of electricity but we can heat the whole deal without burning any oil, or propane, for this 4,000 sq foot two family home in northern Vermont it is well worth it. We harvest the 10 cords of hardwood out of our woods. · 28,880Wh battery bank / 15,000 Wh = 1.5 days of autonomy. I didn't know how well this would work when we added the second living space with the 9 yr old batteries at that point. But I have not had to change a thing. · I have my next set of batteries (sized them a little larger, 1350AH) waiting in reserve in my basement (properly cared for per Surrette/Rolls instructions) as I don't know when the present 13 yr + set will fall off the cliff. I'm watching them closely, no alarming signs of the end yet. Monitoring all cell post terminals with my handheld IR thermometer when battery bank is charging hard and or when the system is under a large load. So far all terminals get up to 86 degrees F at most. Water use has not changed much at all yet and specific gravity readings are all very good. · More numbers: The charge rate with 4.3k of PV only is about a C/8 on the battery bank. · Hydro is 325W, run 24/7 from late October through April, then as needed during rainy periods. · Diesel Gen set charges at 160 Amps, so during the cloudy, snowy winter periods the hydro and gen combined charge at about a C/7 rate. Dave David Palumbo Independent Power LLC 462 Solar Way Drive Hyde Park, VT 05655 802-371-8678 cell 802-888-4917 home From: RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of Matt Sherald Sent: Wednesday, April 26, 2017 7:21 AM To: RE-wrenches Subject: [RE-wrenches] Hydro Off-grid Battery Sizing Good morning! I went to bed wondering if the off-grid battery bank sizing rules that I use for PV systems hold true for hydro-based systems. I woke up and I was still mulling this over. My battery bank sizing standard is to use the method outlined in the SEI Photovoltaics Manual. I would presume that since the charging source is fairly consistent (day-to-day and hour-to-hour) that I could then reduce the days of autonomy to 2-days. I'm curious though if anyone has advice for sizing a battery bank for hydro. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. Thank you! -- Matt Sherald PIMBY Energy, LLC NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installer® 304-704-5943 www.getpimby.blogspot.com www.getpimby.com ___ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] OutBack FX Internal Fan Failure
Fellow Wrenches, I have an OutBack FX inverter (manufactured in 2011) with a flashing Red LED. The MATE warns "Internal Fan Failure Detected" . Before I call OutBack support I'd like to gain a little knowledge from you folks. . Will I be asked to send the inverter in, or can I get the internal fan sent out to me so I can repair it myself? . I used to perform internal power board swaps myself 10 or 12 yrs ago. . It's not on warranty so I'd be paying for the parts. Thanks for your time, Dave David Palumbo Independent Power LLC 462 Solar Way Drive Hyde Park, VT 05655 802-371-8678 cell 802-888-4917 home ___ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] High End battery
Mac, I have had good success using Full River AGM's in difficult situations. One system near the Canadian border here in Vermont had no homeowner care for two months in the winter. PV array became covered with snow and they had left their inverter on to run a refrigerator. Of course the batteries became discharged and they were in temperatures well below freezing. I was brought in to assess and service the situation. I found these 6v 250AH AGM's with about 4 volts each. I assumed they were ruined. Nope. I brought them back to my shop and warmed them up, charged them and then did a load test and they all tested out at or above manufacturer specs. They have been working well for another three years now. David Palumbo Independent Power LLC 462 Solar Way Drive Hyde Park, VT 05655 802-371-8678 cell 802-888-4917 home From: RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of Mac Lewis Sent: Monday, March 27, 2017 8:53 AM To: RE-wrenches Subject: [RE-wrenches] High End battery Hi Wrenches, I've got a customer that has an older off-grid system with a 5 string ~2000 Ahr (No I didn't install this) L16 battery bank that is failing. Its a Trace SW 4024 system where the batteries are located in a difficult-to-access crawl space where I'm sure they never got watered. We'd like to have these characteristics: 1. Modular (need to be able to get them to the crawl space) 2. Maintenance free 3. Able to be abused and bounce back 4. Compatible with an Outback MX 60 charge controller (preferably) 5. In case of charge controller failure, we'd like the batteries to be able to go over the winter with no charge and not be damaged 6. Need about 30-40 kWh bank size 7. Able to withstand cool temps (operate decently at 45F) withstand near freezing temps over winter (with no usage) 8. Price tag isn't a big constraint with these customers What are some batteries you might recommend? Thanks in advance -- Mac Lewis "Yo solo sé que no sé nada." -Sócrates ___ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Hidden corrosion caused catastrophic battery system failure
Hello Ray, Good thinking on the inverter failure part in all of this and thanks for sharing your experience with a smoking hot battery terminal. Good point on using the Vaseline with making the connections before using any gritty coating. Some good reminders/lessons on making good battery connections. Dave From: RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of Ray Walters Sent: Saturday, January 21, 2017 3:05 PM To: RE-wrenches Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Hidden corrosion caused catastrophic battery system failure HI Dave; Based on the evidence, I might suspect a short in the inverter, or the inverter was feeding a heavy load when the melt down occurred. I can't see how a short at the battery would cause an inverter failure, unless the melted lead caused the polarity to be reversed, or created a positive grounded system. My theory is that the Catastrophic Electronics failure may have occurred first, and then the subsequent high current caused the battery melt down. If the resistance were high enough at the battery terminal, then the current flow might have been low enough to not blow the Fuse. 250 amps across a 6 volt drop at a bad connection would not trip a breaker or trip the inverter LVD, but would be 1500 watts of concentrated heat that is going to melt lead very quickly. We had a case a couple of years ago, where we switched from our tried and true Vaseline, to an anti-corrosion paste made especially for batteries. We thought it was an "improvement". However, the grit in the paste kept the connection from making full contact, and when we were operating the inverters at full capacity, a battery terminal started smoking. We shut the system down before the lead started melting, but I'm sure that would have happened soon after. We cleaned the paste off, redid all the connections with a complete coating of Vaseline, and now only apply the paste after the connection is tight, never to the contact surfaces. R.Ray Walters CTO, Solarray, Inc Nabcep Certified PV Installer, Licensed Master Electrician Solar Design Engineer 303 505-8760 On 1/21/2017 8:52 AM, Dave Palumbo wrote: Hi Chris, I don't have any pictures myself, the Backwoods email included a photo of a corroded bolt and a clean assembly which I've snipped and attached. Off the Wrenches list I have had a conversation with another wrench who shared his successful methods which I will share here. << The issue I remember from before on this thread was do you put the material between the lug and post or outside of it? And I'm not sure from the article if it was put on between or outside? Personally I've done between and never had a problem. Yes I've seen corrosion around the lug, but take the lug off and its clean. Outside seals the corrosion in, inside prevents it from forming IMO. However, if the bolt got lose, it would generate heat, which would melt out any and all material, creating oxidation, more heat and away you go to failure mode. Also the photo doesn't show split/lock washer. I think its really important as the lead does flow over time, so no matter how tight you make it, it will loosen up over time especially with higher currents/heat. The lock washer will buy you some time before needing to retorque the fasteners. I'm curious about the damage mode to the inverter and all that. I don't understand how a short on the battery would destroy all the electronics? I've gone to a battery angle grinder with flappy wheel to prep the terminal posts. - fast. >> My response to him. I wondered about the failure of those big expensive components too, but I have never had a dead short for more than a split second at the batteries (a few misplaced cables when working too quickly are easily dealt with). I have been installing a catastrophic class T fuse between the battery bank and the DC distribution center breaker also. I would always buff the cable ends with a green scrubbie and file the battery terminals to remove any corrosion and then lightly coat all surfaces, including all the hardware thoroughly (incldng lock washer), with petroleum jelly before assembling and tightening (very tight - tight as I could without breaking the hardware, lead starts to compress). I've been very happy with doing it this way for 30+ years. Learned much of this from Peter Talmage and Rob Wills here back east as well as from Richard Perez (RIP). Dave From: RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of cwarfel Sent: Saturday, January 21, 2017 9:54 AM To: re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Hidden corrosion caused catastrophic battery system failure Hi David, do you have any pictures of this that could be shared? Chris On 1/20/2017 12:52 PM, Dave Palumbo wrote: Following is an entry from a Backwoods Solar email that I received today. I would like to share this as a
Re: [RE-wrenches] Hidden corrosion caused catastrophic battery system failure
Hi Chris, I don't have any pictures myself, the Backwoods email included a photo of a corroded bolt and a clean assembly which I've snipped and attached. Off the Wrenches list I have had a conversation with another wrench who shared his successful methods which I will share here. << The issue I remember from before on this thread was do you put the material between the lug and post or outside of it? And I'm not sure from the article if it was put on between or outside? Personally I've done between and never had a problem. Yes I've seen corrosion around the lug, but take the lug off and its clean. Outside seals the corrosion in, inside prevents it from forming IMO. However, if the bolt got lose, it would generate heat, which would melt out any and all material, creating oxidation, more heat and away you go to failure mode. Also the photo doesn't show split/lock washer. I think its really important as the lead does flow over time, so no matter how tight you make it, it will loosen up over time especially with higher currents/heat. The lock washer will buy you some time before needing to retorque the fasteners. I'm curious about the damage mode to the inverter and all that. I don't understand how a short on the battery would destroy all the electronics? I've gone to a battery angle grinder with flappy wheel to prep the terminal posts. - fast. >> My response to him. I wondered about the failure of those big expensive components too, but I have never had a dead short for more than a split second at the batteries (a few misplaced cables when working too quickly are easily dealt with). I have been installing a catastrophic class T fuse between the battery bank and the DC distribution center breaker also. I would always buff the cable ends with a green scrubbie and file the battery terminals to remove any corrosion and then lightly coat all surfaces, including all the hardware thoroughly (incldng lock washer), with petroleum jelly before assembling and tightening (very tight - tight as I could without breaking the hardware, lead starts to compress). I've been very happy with doing it this way for 30+ years. Learned much of this from Peter Talmage and Rob Wills here back east as well as from Richard Perez (RIP). Dave From: RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of cwarfel Sent: Saturday, January 21, 2017 9:54 AM To: re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Hidden corrosion caused catastrophic battery system failure Hi David, do you have any pictures of this that could be shared? Chris On 1/20/2017 12:52 PM, Dave Palumbo wrote: Following is an entry from a Backwoods Solar email that I received today. I would like to share this as a teachable point for RE techs not familiar enough with proper battery bank care and as a reminder for those of us with years of storage battery experience. I have underlined the two issues in the Backwoods email copied below my bullet points to highlight the teachable issues. . Checking wiring connections: Check not only for tightness but also for temperature. There are two simple methods that work well: #1) Use an IR Thermometer to ensure all connections are of a similar moderate temperature. #2) Use your fingers to check temperatures. I'm practiced at this second method because inexpensive IR thermometers were not available when I began to care for storage batteries. I simply use my bare fingers (with a light coating of petroleum jelly) to wiggle test each battery cable at the battery terminal. Fingers are sensitive enough to gauge proper temperature. I have easily found several warm or hot connection points over the years caused by loose or corroded hardware. Do this as preventive maintenance every time you water the batteries or bi-monthly with sealed cells. Corrective measures (tightening, or taking apart and cleaning, or replacing, and reinstalling) are taken immediately when a warmer than usual connection is identified. . It is not recommended by most veteran wrenches to use any "anti-corrosion paste" on the terminal connections. This has been discussed a few times over the years on the Wrenches list. Most of us have found that a thin coating of petroleum jelly (Vaseline is one brand) does the best job of protecting against corrosion while still allowing some visual inspection. from Backwoods Solar 1/20/17. << This past summer Backwoods had a visit from one of our retired co-workers, x. While it is always good to have friends visit, the circumstances for his dropping by were less than ideal. A small, catastrophic failure had led to the loss of a battery bank, two inverters, and a voltage converter. Ultimately, the failure was traced back to a single nut and bolt in the battery bank cable connections, that had developed hidden corrosion over time. Corrosion causes resistance to the flow of electricity,
Re: [RE-wrenches] Hidden corrosion caused catastrophic battery system failure
Following is an entry from a Backwoods Solar email that I received today. I would like to share this as a teachable point for RE techs not familiar enough with proper battery bank care and as a reminder for those of us with years of storage battery experience. I have underlined the two issues in the Backwoods email copied below my bullet points to highlight the teachable issues. . Checking wiring connections: Check not only for tightness but also for temperature. There are two simple methods that work well: #1) Use an IR Thermometer to ensure all connections are of a similar moderate temperature. #2) Use your fingers to check temperatures. I'm practiced at this second method because inexpensive IR thermometers were not available when I began to care for storage batteries. I simply use my bare fingers (with a light coating of petroleum jelly) to wiggle test each battery cable at the battery terminal. Fingers are sensitive enough to gauge proper temperature. I have easily found several warm or hot connection points over the years caused by loose or corroded hardware. Do this as preventive maintenance every time you water the batteries or bi-monthly with sealed cells. Corrective measures (tightening, or taking apart and cleaning, or replacing, and reinstalling) are taken immediately when a warmer than usual connection is identified. . It is not recommended by most veteran wrenches to use any "anti-corrosion paste" on the terminal connections. This has been discussed a few times over the years on the Wrenches list. Most of us have found that a thin coating of petroleum jelly (Vaseline is one brand) does the best job of protecting against corrosion while still allowing some visual inspection. from Backwoods Solar 1/20/17. << This past summer Backwoods had a visit from one of our retired co-workers, x. While it is always good to have friends visit, the circumstances for his dropping by were less than ideal. A small, catastrophic failure had led to the loss of a battery bank, two inverters, and a voltage converter. Ultimately, the failure was traced back to a single nut and bolt in the battery bank cable connections, that had developed hidden corrosion over time. Corrosion causes resistance to the flow of electricity, which in turn generates heat. With enough corrosion, and enough current flow, the amount of heat generated can be sufficient to melt battery terminal connections; which is exactly what happened in x's case. The melted metal flowed between the negative and positive terminals of his industrial battery, causing a high power short that was beyond the capabilities of any of the circuit protection, resulting in the damage to the equipment. Now keep in mind, x is one of the more detail-oriented people we've had here at Backwoods. The discipline of a military background, along with critical thinking of an engineer, were still not enough to overlook one very tiny detail. x does his mechanical maintenance on a routine schedule; checking for tightness in wiring connections, cleaning accumulated spray off battery tops, cleaning out dust and spider webs, and keeping his battery terminal posts coated with anti-corrosion paste. This is not the type of person you'd expect to see such a failure. So what happened? It all boiled down to the battery terminal connections. What x had NOT done, was dissembled the nut and bolts from the battery terminals and cables to check for internal, hidden corrosion. It had been about 6 years since he had done that level of inspection. When previously reviewed, the hardware had been thoroughly inspected, cleaned, and re-assembled, and then coated with anti-corrosion paste on the exterior. In one of the 16 nut/bolt pairs, a small bit of contamination or moisture must have been left trapped inside. Over the course of the next six years, the corrosion grew, contaminating the entire connection; but was NOT visible externally at all! >> Best regards, Dave David Palumbo Independent Power LLC 462 Solar Way Drive Hyde Park, VT 05655 802-371-8678 cell 802-888-4917 home ___ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Solar Bridge microinverters power usage
I have a net metered system using six AUO Unison PM 250W modules with built in SolarBridge microinverters. It is a 1.5kW system installed in late 2011. . Homeowner called today saying her PV production meter (standard analog EZ read kWh meter) has gone backwards. She read 7,006 kWh on 12/21/2016 and read 7,000 kWh this morning 15 days later. . She says she watches her system pretty closely and she has never seen kWh numbers that have gone backwards. . The site does not get much winter production at all due to clouds, snow and low path of the sun behind a hillside - we knew all this 6 yrs ago at the site survey so little to no production during late Dec., early Jan. is not a problem. . My question is: Do the SolarBridge microinverters draw 16 to 20 Watts 24/7? That would account for the 6kWh usage over the 15 days assuming little to no PV production due to snow and shade. . Other ideas? Thanks for the help! Dave David Palumbo Independent Power LLC 462 Solar Way Drive Hyde Park, VT 05655 802-371-8678 cell 802-888-4917 home ___ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Generac EcoGen 6
Wrenches, I have a 6 kW Generac EcoGen (1,300 hrs on it) with a new problem. . After swapping in a new battery the other day the generator now starts and runs when its start switch is positioned to Auto. . The OutBack inverter w Mate2 is not calling for an auto start. . Even when the EcoGen is disconnected from the off grid house it still starts and runs every time the start switch is set to Auto. How do I clear this problem and get this gen back to normal? Thanks and Happy New Year, Dave David Palumbo Independent Power LLC 462 Solar Way Drive Hyde Park, VT 05655 802-371-8678 cell 802-888-4917 home ___ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Load Management vs Multiple Inverters and OutBack Radian vs Flexware systems
Very helpful William! Thank you. I will work with the client to get the load profile to a point where one 8kW Radian will meet all the household needs, but it is more likely that 2 Radians will be needed. Is it possible/practical to parallel a Radian GS8048 with a GS4048? If so, can the GS4048 be upgraded to 8k in the future? I will reach out to you, off wrench list, for more info on your Radian GSLC cabinet methods. Dave Palumbo From: RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of William Miller Sent: Thursday, December 15, 2016 2:18 PM To: RE-wrenches Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Load Management vs Multiple Inverters and OutBack Radian vs Flexware systems Dave: Here are the differences between the Outback Radian and FX inverters that I think are pertinent to your situation: 1.The Radian has generator support. Don’t confuse this with generator start. Gen support allows the inverter to sync to and aid the generator in providing power to loads. The new FX inverter is the FXR and I am not sure it has this capability. It is worth checking into. Avoid an inverter without this function. 2.The Radian provides more power per hub-port than does the FX series. The Radian can provide 8 kw per hub port while the FX maxes out at 3.6 kW per port. This may not seem important but it can be. If you have a Flexnet DC unit it occupies on port, therefore you are limited to 32 Kw (3.6 * 9 ports). With Radian, you are allowed up to 72 Kw (8*9 ports). And if you reach these maximums, there are no ports for charge controllers. I wish Outback would put some resources into eliminating this bottleneck (and allow more than one Mate, please). 3.I am not fond of the X240 transformer system. I have seen too many instances of tripped breakers. The power save scheme is awkward when using FX inverters, and if you ask three Outback employees about setting this function you will get three answers. 4.Outback supposedly has a white paper on stacking more than two Radians, but I can’t seem to find it. Lones, do you have access to this? 5.You are correct in looking at battery charging ratings. With a big system comes big batteries. You want to be able to charge them in an appropriate length of time. I always hesitate to try and comingle equipment from too many different manufacturers. Battery inverter systems are finicky enough as they are. This may preclude load management. Consider how you would implement this: it would mean contactors, maybe an additional sub-panel, wiring, etc. Sounds problematic to me. Wiring a Radian system is different than wiring a Flexware system. I find the Radian easier now that I have learned a few tricks: 1.Remove all AC breakers from the GSLC cabinets. Instead use two outboard load centers: one for generator fed and one for inverter fed. To provide bypass, run the generator power to the inverter fed panel and provide breaker interlocks. For smaller systems use a factory provided interlock. For larger systems, we custom build breaker interlocks. Contact me off-line for more information. 2.Remove all of the PV breakers from the GSLC. You can use a Midnite DIN rail or panel mount breaker cabinet or even an Outback combiner to mount din rail mount your PV and charge controller breakers. I hope this helps. William Miller Gradient Cap_mini Lic 773985 millersolar.com <http://www.millersolar.com/> 805-438-5600 On Dec 15, 2016, at 10:08 AM, Dave Palumbo <palumbo1...@gmail.com> wrote: Wrenchers, I am involved in designing an off grid system that will need multiple inverters (probably OutBack). My experience over the years has been limited to no more than 8kW's of inverter on a big system (for me). The load profile is not completed yet, but it is looking like this may require more power if all of the loads were to be on/surge at the same time. The client wants things to run as seamlessly as practical and has the means to pay for a nice system. · Are automatic load management devices worth looking into? I have no experience with them except for one of my off griders (early adopter type) had one put in about 15 years ago on his system and I think it worked OK but it seemed like a lot of money and work to install and it takes up some space. More technical stuff to deal with. · How fool proof is it and is it worth messing with? Vs. adding more inverter wattage? · With OutBack these days what are the Pros and Cons comparing a Radian system vs a Flexware 1000 system? · Why does the Radian line have different ratings per unit of a 48VDC inverter? Isn't the Radian two vented 48V inverters in a big box? · The regular OB VFXR3648's have lower continuous power and surge ratings and lower battery charging amps when compared to a Radian. Two OB VFR3648's @ 7,200V
Re: [RE-wrenches] Load Management vs Multiple Inverters and OutBack Radian vs Flexware systems
Wrenchers, I am involved in designing an off grid system that will need multiple inverters (probably OutBack). My experience over the years has been limited to no more than 8kW's of inverter on a big system (for me). The load profile is not completed yet, but it is looking like this may require more power if all of the loads were to be on/surge at the same time. The client wants things to run as seamlessly as practical and has the means to pay for a nice system. . Are automatic load management devices worth looking into? I have no experience with them except for one of my off griders (early adopter type) had one put in about 15 years ago on his system and I think it worked OK but it seemed like a lot of money and work to install and it takes up some space. More technical stuff to deal with. . How fool proof is it and is it worth messing with? Vs. adding more inverter wattage? . With OutBack these days what are the Pros and Cons comparing a Radian system vs a Flexware 1000 system? . Why does the Radian line have different ratings per unit of a 48VDC inverter? Isn't the Radian two vented 48V inverters in a big box? . The regular OB VFXR3648's have lower continuous power and surge ratings and lower battery charging amps when compared to a Radian. Two OB VFR3648's @ 7,200VA continuous vs Radian @ 8,000VA; 10.8kVA surge on the 2 VFX's together vs 12kVA on the Radian; also 90ADC vs 115ADC battery charging respectively. Thanks for your time, Dave David Palumbo Independent Power LLC 462 Solar Way Drive Hyde Park, VT 05655 802-371-8678 cell 802-888-4917 home ___ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Fire fighters safety class
Thanks Dan, Thanks for these good points and good ideas. Of course safety of the responders/helpers is #1, thanks for the reminder. I have not heard about spraying foam on the array to disable. What are the specifics on this? What kind of foam? Are your local fire fighters equipped to spray this when needed? Also, I had not thought that there would be lethal voltage from a PV array at night. Are you talking about small amounts of moonlight and starlight generating enough power to kill someone who cuts into those wires? Another question for the group. On an off-grid home, or barn, powered by an inverter I would assume that if fire fighters (wearing protective gloves) have cut into the homes AC wiring that the inverter power will be disabled assuming shorted wires. I know the old Trace SW's and the OutBack inverters shut off quickly in cases of shorted output wiring. Do all stand alone inverters shut down quickly in cases of shorted output? At this point the fire fighter would need to be concerned with the battery bank, any DC voltages in the structure, and of course whatever other power source may be connected to the structure - fossil fueled generator, PV array, wind turbine, hydro turbine. I recommend that the emergency responders send one person to sweep around the perimeter of the building(s) looking for any potential power generators. This person should have enough training/experience to disable these alternate generators by shutting off the fuel sources and or throwing disconnect switches as required. Dave Palumbo Independent Power LLC Hyde Park, VT From: RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of d...@foxfire-energy.com Sent: Tuesday, September 20, 2016 9:10 AM To: RE-wrenches Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Fire fighters safety class Hey Dave, I'm a retired level 2 Fire Fighter and EMT. I've been invited to address several EMS departments and State Electrical Classes about Solar / Off Grid emergencies. All departments are required to re certify annually in subjects like CPR and Hazardous Materials (HAZMAT), so I try to build on that training. Basically, I like the strategy 'Identify the threat, protect yourself and the public'.. In that order. HAZMAT training (Including downed power lines, crashed trailer trucks and some industrial emergencies ), teaches to identify the threat and cordon off the area based on the threat identified. i.e. don't compromise FF safety if it's not absolutely necessary. Yes, there are times when a FF needs to conduct a hasty search, but the focus is on life safety, not property. Yes, EMS can still knock down a structure fire and overhaul, but there are situations where the best approach is to just keep everyone away and call in the pros.. The trick is knowing the difference. As we all know, the old 'Axe thru the battery cable' can be a recipe for disaster. If the battery is under load and gassing (an most likely the FF won't know because they're using SCBA), cutting the wire could set off an explosion. Similarly, I got to sit in on a conversation between a Prof. of Alternative Energy Vehicles at MIT and a Formula One Electric Racing Team.. Apparently many of the newer battery designs can ignite or explode if not handled properly.. and it sounds like once some of them go, there is no stopping them.. Again, Identify and if it's beyond their training, run. As for neutralizing an array, as you know the industry suggests covering the array with an opaque covering.. Looks good on paper, but could be a PIA.. I like to advise shooting the array with heavy foam from the ground to temporarily disable the array.. Even at night, although they don't make power, they can still have a lethal VOC.. Again, call in the pros. I think your point about the industry going thru so many changes over the years is an under statement. I've seen systems installed in the 80's that are safe, well designed and still performing perfectly. I've also seen systems installed more recently I wouldn't want my cat near.. There's been so many DIY systems and Uncle Larry installs, there's no telling what's going on.. More times than not, the home owner knows what's what.. Rule #1 in HAZMAT, 'If you see a truck driver running away from a crash.. keep up with them'. Hope this helps. db Dan Brown Foxfire Energy Corp. Renewable Energy Systems (802)-483-2564 <http://www.Foxfire-Energy.com> www.Foxfire-Energy.com NABCEP #092907-44 Original Message Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Fire fighters safety class From: "Dave Palumbo" < <mailto:palumbo1...@gmail.com> palumbo1...@gmail.com> Date: Mon, September 19, 2016 10:13 pm To: "'RE-wrenches'" < <mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> Wrenches, I will be presenting a class on "Solar Home Fire Fighter Safety" to our local
Re: [RE-wrenches] Fire fighters safety class
Wrenches, I will be presenting a class on "Solar Home Fire Fighter Safety" to our local volunteer fire department this coming weekend. I will tour them around my off grid neighborhood so that we can review various PV, micro-hydro, different inverters and battery systems, various back-up generators - diesel, LP gas, tractor PTO as well as standard gasoline generators. Then we will visit a 7 year old 5kW net-metered PV system on a 75 year old home (no battery back-up). . I'm sure that there will be questions about Tesla Power Wall battery packs as Green Mountain Power is selling and leasing these in Vermont. I have no experience with Lithium Ion batteries at this point and I could use some advice for the fire fighters. . Would you be more, less, or equally concerned entering a home with back-up Li batteries vs AGM's vs Standard LA's? . There are some 500kW and larger solar farms going in locally recently. Anything that fire fighters need to know about these fenced in power generators? Say, vs utility sub-stations that they may be familiar with? Thoughts on pulling utility meters to disconnect power from homes that have a fire on the premises? Arc flash back is a real issue and these volunteer squads are not going to have full flashback protection. What are the odds of serious injury of pulling a meter to disable utility electricity to a home on fire? Many times there is no other way to quickly disconnect a home from utility power. As a side note, Vermont does not require licensed electricians for residential work and only a couple of municipalities require inspections. It can be a little scary, but always interesting. Are there any good You Tube videos on fire fighter safety and homes with solar electric systems that you recommend? Thanks for your time, David Palumbo Independent Power LLC 462 Solar Way Drive Hyde Park, VT 05655 802-371-8678 cell 802-888-4917 home ___ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Solar World shattered module
Wrenches, I have a customer with one SW 230 poly V2.0 frame (top mount) module that has shattered glass. It is on a DPW TPM10 pole mount. She noticed it the other day and does not think that it was hit by anything. I agree that is unlikely based on the site conditions. Other than by a falling tree, thrown rock, or twisted frame - is there another way that glass shatters on a 65 degree tilted pole mount like this? We installed the system 2 years ago. The module was on the lower corner of the array. . Is it likely that this modules frame was being pressured by the module(s) above it? TPM has two rows of 5 modules in landscape, so this bottom module has 4 modules mounted above it. Again it is a top mounted DPW pole array. . Or, is there another way that glass shatters on this type of module? I have not visited the site yet, just received the phone call today. David Palumbo Independent Power LLC 462 Solar Way Drive Hyde Park, VT 05655 (802) 888-7194 ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change email address settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Higher LVR to force full re-charge in small OGPV systems
Allan, The Full River sealed battery line also has charging voltages similar to the numbers for the Rhinos. We have had good results with many Full River battery banks, no premature failures to date. Certainly these are higher charging voltages than the early VRLA batteries we saw years ago. David Palumbo Independent Power LLC 462 Solar Way Drive Hyde Park, VT 05655 From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of Allan Sindelar Sent: Thursday, January 02, 2014 4:01 PM To: e...@solarnexusinternational.com; RE-wrenches Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Higher LVR to force full re-charge in small OGPV systems Eric, Not having previously heard of Rogue Engineering, I looked them up on the web. I would be cautious above using the Rhino-10 product you have identified. According to the product manual for it at http://rogue-engr.homestead.com/Manual_1950-162.pdf, it is a 10A PWM controller labelled and described as being for SLA - sealed lead acid batteries. Yet its specs include a 14.8V bulk voltage - what they call a top=off voltage - and a 14.1V float voltage. 14.8 is well up into the gassing range for a LA battery. Perhaps they expect that with a 10A maximum charge capacity, the current will be insufficient to force gassing, but these values fly against all conventional wisdom. Does Rogue Engineering know something that the battery industry doesn't? Or are they simply, as their name suggests, going rogue? And has anyone on this list used this company's products? Allan Allan Sindelar mailto:al...@positiveenergysolar.com al...@positiveenergysolar.com NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional NABCEP Certified Technical Sales Professional New Mexico EE98J Journeyman Electrician Founder, Positive Energy, Inc. A Certified B CorporationTM 3209 Richards Lane Santa Fe, New Mexico 87507 505 424-1112 office 780-2738 cell http://www.positiveenergysolar.com/ www.positiveenergysolar.com On 12/31/2013 2:34 PM, Eric Youngren wrote: Thank you Allan, Dan and Ray for your suggestions.This is the kind of feedback I was hoping for! I agree that the 75W of PV with 120AH of sealed battery is too low of a ratio of PV to storage and will not help the batteries last 7 years. Unfortunately those parts of the design are pre-determined in the bid specs and I don't think they will allow us to suggest alternatives now. We need to win the bid first, then maybe we can suggest some changes.. MPPT would be great but it's just not in the budget for these little systems, and like Allan says these systems won't ever experience the cold daytime conditions where MPPT really shines. Looks like Rogue Engineering in Englewood, CO will be able to customize their Rhino-10 PWM controllers with the LVD and LVR setpoints we choose. I'm leaning towards Allan's suggested values of 12.0 for LVD and 13.8 for LVR. I am fairly certain that many of the systems will be run til the LVD shuts them off, so 12V will ensure they will not be too deeply discharged, and forcing them to wait until 13.8V before reconnect will give the batteries a chance to get back up to a full SOC before the cycle is repeated.Yes they will experience shut-downs, but I think that over time this approach will help them learn to live within the capacity of the systems and give the batteries the longest life possible. That, or they will figure out how to bypass the load controller and run directly off the batteries! I like the Midnite MNBCM battery SOC meter. It's currently the best 'dummy light' system monitor out there for small systems like this. We used them last year for over 1,000 small systems powering computers in schools in Tanzania and people seem to understand them easily. We will include them in the systems we are offering for this tender. Thanks again folks! Lets hope we win the bid! Eric On Tue, Dec 31, 2013 at 12:01 PM, Ray Walters mailto:r...@solarray.com r...@solarray.com wrote: I'll chime back in on a few points: To MPPT or not: It all gets down to the budget: I find the tipping point to be around 250 to 400 watts. My small systems usually don't have MPPT, and as soon as I get into more than a pair of modules, I'm using the cheaper 60 cell modules with MPPT. I like Blue Sky's new PWM 30 amp controller that also includes a digital meter. Temp compensation: it all depends on the temperature variation. If its warm year round, just program the charge settings lower, and as Dan said KISS. Metering: Midnite's Battery Capacity Meter was specifically designed for the African market. Very simple LED smiley face, frowny face reading, It's cheap, and it actually does a decent job of tracking SOC. Its not a Trimetric, but its way better than a volt meter too. R.Ray Walters CTO, Solarray, Inc Nabcep Certified PV Installer, Licensed Master Electrician Solar Design Engineer tel:303%20505-8760 303 505-8760 On 12/31/2013 11:48 AM,
Re: [RE-wrenches] Heart Interface Idle Draw
William, My first inverter in my own home in 1985 was a Heart Interface. I may have the specs on that inverter. I will look around tomorrow for them. I'm remembering the idle draw as about 10 Watts. What make and model battery are these? My house is on its third set of batteries and also 3rd inverter. Dave David Palumbo Independent Power LLC 462 Solar Way Drive Hyde Park, VT 05655 NABCEPTM Inaugural Certificant (802) 888-7194 From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of William Miller Sent: Monday, December 09, 2013 10:56 PM To: RE-wrenches Subject: [RE-wrenches] Heart Interface Idle Draw Friends: I have a client with 28 year old batteries. They are in great shape with excellent specific gravity. I have no idea why they have lasted so long. We recently pulled an old Heart HF series inverter and installed an Outback VFX3524 inverter. Coincidentally the client purchased a new flat screen TV and satellite receiver. The client reports generally lower battery voltages since the install. I am trying to figure out if it is the inverter or the TV. Does anyone know the idle draw of the HF series inverter? This information would help me troubleshoot this problem. Thanks in advance. William cid:679355323@23072013-1054 17395 Oak Rd. Atascadero, CA 93422 www.millersolar.com http://www.millersolar.com/ 805-438-5600 voice image001.jpg___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change email address settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] SW repair
Tekris Power Electronics in NJ. Chris Hanrahan has been repairing these for many years and is top notch. 732-938-4996 David Palumbo Independent Power LLC 462 Solar Way Drive Hyde Park, VT 05655 NABCEPTM Inaugural Certificant (802) 888-7194 From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of Brian Mehalic Sent: Wednesday, December 04, 2013 10:31 AM To: RE-wrenches Subject: [RE-wrenches] SW repair Howdy- Have a friend with stacked Trace SWs. The fan on one is running nearly continuously, so two questions: Anything in the settings that could cause this (it isn't related to the load, which is usually low and evenly split between the two 120 legs)? How about repairs? The concern is it will fail...I've never changed out any internal parts on SWs, and a few posts on the internet made it sound like the fan is a pain in the butt. Any reputable repair shops in the Southeast or east coast? Thanks! Brian Mehalic NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installation ProfessionalT R031508-59 IREC ISPQ Certified Affiliated Instructor/PV US-0132 PV Curriculum Developer and Instructor Solar Energy International http://www.solarenergy.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change email address settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] 12V battery charger
Wrenches, I'm looking for a battery charger to augment an OutBack FX 2012 inverter/charger for a 12V off-grid system that could use shorter charging times during our cloudy late fall/winter periods in northern Vermont. Both the generator and the battery bank are amply sized as is the PV array. I have used Iota chargers in the past, but wondered if they are other options worth considering. Thanks, Dave David Palumbo Independent Power LLC 462 Solar Way Drive Hyde Park, VT 05655 www.independentpowerllc.com Vermont Solar Partner 25 Years Experience, (802) 888-7194 From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of Allan Sindelar Sent: Wednesday, October 30, 2013 10:57 AM To: RE-wrenches Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] To stack or not to stack? Off-grid 240V Hilton, Kevin's comments are well taken. To add a bit: Magnum are exceptionally easy to set up and program. The user interface is well designed. A few issues to be aware of from my experience: - All of our Magnum-based off grid systems have been single inverter. At 4 kW, a single inverter may not be enough for that particular 3hp motor - best to CYA with the customer on the possible need for a stacked pair. - Magnum allows a pretty wide voltage dip to accomplish surge capacity, so when the saw starts, expect lights to flicker. Our CF bulbs flicker when the refrigerator starts. Our trial with Apollo a couple of years ago was probably the single most negative experience with an inverter manufacturer of my career. Kevin's comment that the most basic programming required hooking up to a computer is accurate. The computer must have their proprietary software installed, and the hookup was necessary even to initiate an equalize charge from an AC source. We have several warranty replacement and takeout units on a shelf here, from two installations (including in my own home) where the equipment was replaced after being unable to get it to work reliably. Ultimately, Apollo agreed in writing to reimburse us for the cost to replace their equipment with another brand. They never came through. Allan Allan Sindelar mailto:al...@positiveenergysolar.com al...@positiveenergysolar.com NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional NABCEP Certified Technical Sales Professional New Mexico EE98J Journeyman Electrician Founder, Positive Energy, Inc. A Certified B CorporationTM 3209 Richards Lane Santa Fe, New Mexico 87507 505 424-1112 office 780-2738 cell http://www.positiveenergysolar.com/ www.positiveenergysolar.com On 10/29/2013 10:32 PM, Kevin Pegg wrote: Hi Hilton, My $0.05 worth as off-grid is my primary domain. The SW4024 is an excellent inverter, reliable, robust and if you can find another stack them for 240 and will have no issues with the 3 HP table saw (assuming batteries can handle that is). I run my whole home from a 13 year old pair of them. Magnum makes an excellent, robust, and reliable off-grid inverter. Available in 120 or 240 without stack. Stacking Magnums (for more power) is straightforward and the user interface is very simple and intuitive. There is some different hardware required for stacking. If a second SW4024 isn't an option then this is what I would do. I test installed an Apollo unit last year. What a frustrating experience that was. It requires a computer and a RS485 interface to program the most basic features to make the unit usable. Nice when I was real remote and without Internet. That alone makes it unappealing in my books. Seems they are a bit behind the rest of the crowd. I'd not trust a marketing department claim it will start that saw unless they can demonstrate it. (with of course some other loads on the system - having to power down the house so one can work in the shop is hardly usable). Outback units are common, though suffer from weak battery chargers and power quality issues while under charge so for off-grid that involves any significant generator charging they are not ideal. They are complex to program and operate and end users report lots of frustration. Kevin -Original Message- From: mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org [ mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org]On Behalf Of Hilton Dier III Sent: October 29, 2013 6:48 PM To: mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Subject: [RE-wrenches] To stack or not to stack? Off-grid 240V Hello Wrenches, I have an off-grid client with a 24V system and an old Xantrex SW4024. He wants 240VAC capability with enough oomph for sometimes making a cut with his 3 hp table saw without starting the generator. I am looking at Apollo, Magnum, and Outback inverters. I'm most familiar with Outback. I have a couple of installations out there with stacked 3.6 kW Outbacks. However, the Apollo marketing promises that
Re: [RE-wrenches] Off Grid LP Gen advice
I purchased through Norwall PowerSystems www.Norwall.com I did not price it at Lowes so I don't know if I paid more or less but it was the lowest price I could find. Easy to deal with so far. Received EcoGen yesterday. Dave Palumbo Independent Power LLC From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of Ray Walters Sent: Friday, September 27, 2013 8:28 PM To: RE-wrenches Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Off Grid LP Gen advice Please let us all know, as this is important for all. R.Ray Walters CTO, Solarray, Inc Nabcep Certified PV Installer, Licensed Master Electrician Solar Design Engineer 303 505-8760 On 9/27/2013 4:23 PM, Larry Crutcher, Starlight Solar Power Systems wrote: Hi Wrenches, I've been looking for a distributor for the Generac Ecogen. The ones I contacted are about $300 higher than paying retail at Lowes. Is there a supplier that sells wholesale or discounts to dealers? Off list answer is fine. Thank you, Larry Crutcher la...@starlightsolar.com On Sep 15, 2013, at 8:56 PM, Ray Walters r...@solarray.com wrote: What supplier are folks using for the Ecogen? R.Ray Walters CTO, Solarray, Inc Nabcep Certified PV Installer, Licensed Master Electrician Solar Design Engineer 303 505-8760 ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change email address settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change email address settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Off Grid LP Gen advice
Ecogen it is. Thanks everybody. Dave Plaumbo From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of John Blittersdorf Sent: Sunday, September 15, 2013 7:11 AM To: RE-wrenches Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Off Grid LP Gen advice Dave, I have sold 8 Eco-Gens so far and first impressions are great. I wasn't aware of the govt funded research but it makes sense. I have one installed on top of Herrick Mtn doing an average of 4 hours a day backing up a transmitter site. This winter will be the test. So far we have almost 500 hours on it (first oil change coming up) and no problems. This is a remote site with only snowmobile access in winter. The gen is doing great on fuel economy. About .7 gph at 2300 watt load. John Blittersdorf I S Tn Sent from my iPhone On Sep 14, 2013, at 8:56 PM, Gary Willett g...@icarussolarservices.com wrote: Ditto Chris's comment. The EcoGen was designed by Generac with research funded by the Propane Council from the ground-up as an off-grid propane-only generator used to charge batteries. Regards, Gary On 9/14/13 1:44 PM, Chris Mason wrote: Generac Ecogen is your best choice. It was specifically designed for the long runs associated with charing batteries for off-grid work. On Sat, Sep 14, 2013 at 11:58 AM, Dave Palumbo d...@independentpowerllc.com wrote: Wrenchsters, Looking for a good quality, long lasting, LP gas genset for my off grid rental house. 6 to 8kW. Full power at 120Vac would be nice. In the past some have recommended a Coleman off grid model as I remember. I’m also wondering how the smaller Kohlers, and the like, have been holding up for off grid use over the past few years. This for northern Vermont where even with C/8 PV to battery charge rate we need to run the generator about 250 hours per year as the cloud cover is dense for weeks at a time. Thanks, Dave Palumbo ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change email address settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org -- Chris Mason President, Comet Systems Ltd www.cometenergysystems.com Cell: 264.235.5670 Skype: netconcepts ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change email address settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change email address settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change email address settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Off Grid LP Gen advice
Wrenchsters, Looking for a good quality, long lasting, LP gas genset for my off grid rental house. 6 to 8kW. Full power at 120Vac would be nice. In the past some have recommended a Coleman off grid model as I remember. I'm also wondering how the smaller Kohlers, and the like, have been holding up for off grid use over the past few years. This for northern Vermont where even with C/8 PV to battery charge rate we need to run the generator about 250 hours per year as the cloud cover is dense for weeks at a time. Thanks, Dave Palumbo ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change email address settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Solar Bridge AC Modules
What about AUO/BenQ Solar AC Unison modules. We installed 3 systems in late 2011 and they used SolarBridge inverters then. Results have been OK so far. The data logger was clunky then. We are getting an upgraded version now. David Palumbo Independent Power LLC 462 Solar Way Drive Hyde Park, VT 05655 From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of Bill Loesch Sent: Friday, May 31, 2013 7:59 AM To: RE-wrenches Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Solar Bridge AC Modules Hi Carl, As recently as SPI 12, in Las Vegas, SolarBridge had seven (7) module manufacturer partners. IF there are only four partners today, some due diligence investigation may be in order. In other maters, Exeltech/Exeltech Solar is no longer partnered with the American made Helios AC modules. I have no installation experience with any of the above, but hope a viable AC module comes to the fore, soon. Bill Loesch Solar 1 - Saint Louis Solar On 28-May-13 2:10 PM, Carl Adams wrote: Hello Wrenches, SolarBridge is paired up with four companies ( ET Solar, Mage Solar, Talesun, and Solartec ) manufacturing AC modules. Have any of you installed any of these yet and if so what was your impression. With Regards Carl Adams SunRock Solar ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change email address settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2013.0.2904 / Virus Database: 3184/6367 - Release Date: 05/29/13 No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2013.0.2904 / Virus Database: 3184/6367 - Release Date: 05/29/13 ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change email address settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] SHW Schuco issue
Hi Carl, Yes. I ordered the WILO circ pump (and have received) from PAW last week. I also have one coming from Schuco USA covered under warranty. Schuco is still answering the phone in CT. See Sandor's contact below. He was very helpful, unfortunately he had to source the pumps out of Germany and he said one month. Noah Tuthill, formerly a Schuco solar thermal man (now working for SolarEdge) gave me the PAW contact in Mass. They had the correct replacement pump in stock. So two different contacts below 1). Sandor Erdei Quality Assurance Manager - Aluminum Division Schuco USA LLLP 240 Pane Road Newington, CT 06111 Tel: 860-616-0129 Fax: Cell: 860-331-0117 Email: mailto:sandorer...@schuco-usa.com sandorer...@schuco-usa.com 2). Contact for PAW- they should be able to get you replacement parts including the Wilo Star 21-U which is an OEM circulator- at least that is what Grundfos will tell you when you provide the part number to them. It should be readily available. There were some modifications made to the circulator to configure for solar applications so the windings are slightly different on the motor. Joe Waskiewicz- tell him I say hello! He should be able to help you find what you are looking for. j...@paw.eu 508-943-4240 http://www.paw.eu/us/pages/index.php Here is their Webster MA address as well. PAW NA, Inc. 45 Davis Street Webster, MA 01570 USA +1-508-943-4240 +1-508-943-4141 mailto:supp...@paw.eu supp...@paw.eu http://www.paw.eu/ www.paw.eu David Palumbo Independent Power LLC 462 Solar Way Drive Hyde Park, VT 05655 www.independentpowerllc.com Vermont Solar Partner 25 Years Experience, (802) 888-7194 From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of Carl Adams Sent: Monday, May 13, 2013 3:17 PM To: RE-wrenches Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] SHW Schuco issue Dave, Were you successful in tracking down one of these pumps? We have a number of Schuco units in the field all running fine at present, but it would be good to have a part source when the time comes. Any joy locating a US distributor for the Tyfocor-LS? Cheers Carl Adams SunRock Solar image001.pngimage002.pngimage003.pngimage004.pngimage005.png___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change email address settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Charging voltages
Jesse, Check with manufacturer to be sure. I've had AGM's in 24v system's set at 29.2 Bulk/Absorb and other manufacturers (Full River for one) that say 29.6 is fine. So, with an FM80 I would recommend 4 strings of 2 modules to ensure that you can always get that VMP up where it needs to be. David Palumbo Independent Power LLC 462 Solar Way Drive Hyde Park, VT 05655 www.independentpowerllc.com Vermont Solar Partner 25 Years Experience, (802) 888-7194 -Original Message- From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of Jesse Dahl Sent: Monday, May 13, 2013 10:34 PM To: Wrenches Subject: [RE-wrenches] Charging voltages Hello, I'm interested in charging voltages for AGM batteries. After my visit to the site mentioned in the battery box thread, I was thinking about the system. New install, 8 solarworld 255s charging a 24V battery bank through a outback FM80 (MPPT) All 8 modules in parallel. VOC - 37.8 VMP - 31.4 ISC - 8.66 IMP - 8.15 I'm interested in the setpoints people use for AGMs because it seems like this might be cutting it close to the setpoints based on the array voltage. Since the system is using a MPPT controller would it be better to increase the array voltage? Battery bank is 6 12V 245ah east penn bats wired 3 strings of 2. I haven't used sealed batteries outside my fish house and boat so I'm looking for some detailed info if I can get it. Thanks a lot! Jesse Sent from my iPhone ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change email address settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change email address settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Wasps
If there is enough space so that you can get at the back of the array with a smooth edged wood or plastic spatula like tool and a large garbage bag you can remove the wasp hive manually. Must be done at first morning light when it's cool out. Get the whole thing captured in the trash bag before they know what's going on. Works very well as they are inactive until the sun comes up. I still wear gloves, longsleeves, turtle neck shirt and a bugnetting hat just to be careful. Then what to do with the bag of wasps? Make sure it is double bagged and secured with duct tape etc. Dave Palumbo From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of Dana Brandt Sent: Monday, May 06, 2013 4:32 PM To: RE-wrenches Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Wasps Thanks for the input everyone. She's pretty set on getting rid of them. I'll recommend hosing them down with water at night. I think she's going to want to go chemical, though. I'd love to hear anyone's experience with sprays damaging the backsheet or not. Thanks, Dana Dana Brandt Ecotech Energy Systems, LLC www.ecotechenergy.com d...@ecotechenergy.com 360.318.7646 On Thu, May 2, 2013 at 11:13 AM, Dana Brandt d...@ecotechenergy.com wrote: Hi Wrenches, I have a client who has developed quite a problem with wasps behind her array. Does anyone have experience getting rid of them? I'm afraid of the possibility of sprays damaging the backsheet. Is that a legitimate concern? Thanks, Dana Dana Brandt Ecotech Energy Systems, LLC www.ecotechenergy.com d...@ecotechenergy.com 360.318.7646 ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change email address settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] SHW Schuco issue
Hello wrenches, Is there a specific Solar Hot Water list? What I need help with is in tracking down a specific circulator for a Schuco 1.3 Pump Station. It is a WILO Typ Star S 21U-15-130 pump. Schuco has left the solar biz as of last November. I called Schuco-USA and they have put in an order for the pump, from Germany! One month he says. If anyone has any info on where these pumps might be available here in the US I would appreciate it. Thanks, Dave David Palumbo Independent Power LLC 462 Solar Way Drive Hyde Park, VT 05655 www.independentpowerllc.com Vermont Solar Partner 25 Years Experience, (802) 888-7194 ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change email address settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Outback wave form
Jeremy, What to look for? Unfortunately, probably a different coffee maker. I've gone through this with several different appliances over the years on sine wave inverter output. Washing machines, refrigerators, dishwashers it could be anything with electronics. Specific manufacturers typically cannot be avoided in order to solve this issue. Year to year manufacturers may change the design of their appliances, so blanket statements on what works and what doesn't are unreliable. All appliances (excepting a few) are designed to operate on utility power, not inverter power. Inverter power (excepting Exeltech and possibly others) typically has more distortion than utility power. Some appliances cannot tolerate the simulated inverter sine wave power. I always council my inverter customers that I cannot guarantee that all appliances with work flawlessly and that some may not work at all. I advise off-grid clients to buy appliances where there is a liberal return policy. David Palumbo Independent Power LLC 462 Solar Way Drive Hyde Park, VT 05655 www.independentpowerllc.com Vermont Solar Partner 25 Years Experience, (802) 888-7194 -Original Message- From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of All Solar Sent: Tuesday, April 16, 2013 12:47 PM To: re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Subject: [RE-wrenches] Outback wave form Have a client with a new coffee maker that will not run from their new dual outback setup. Has anyone heard of this lately. We have had no problems with appliances and sine wave inverters. What to look for? Sent from Jeremy's IPhone. Sorry for typos and shorthand! ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change email address settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change email address settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Enphase AC Frequency Out Of Range
I'd like to revisit a thread from early February where we were discussing Enphase microinverters going off line due to utility power quality issues when Pinging of smart meters occur. I have a system where I was told by Enphase that they applied their software fix in late March, but in this case it did work in fixing the problem of the inverters dropping for anywhere from 5 minutes to an hour a couple of times per day. The drops are not regular and now it appears that they are not connected to the pinging of the meters on my customers site as we had the utility change their schedule to only ping at midnight. We are still seeing AC Frequency Out of Range errors almost daily on our M-215 inverters. Sometimes it is for only several inverters and other times up to the whole array of 32 inverters. On my other Enphase systems have no problems. What other issues besides utility pinging of my customers smart meter could be causing the problem? Could the pinging of the neighbors meters by the utility off of the same transformer be affecting the Enphase M-215's? I'm suspicious of something other than this because the errors occur at random times that appear unrelated to utility pinging. Thanks, Dave David Palumbo Independent Power LLC 462 Solar Way Drive Hyde Park, VT 05655 www.independentpowerllc.com Vermont Solar Partner 25 Years Experience, (802) 888-7194 ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change email address settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Insulated cabinet source
Kirk, A few years ago Jeff Randal at DPW made us a nice cabinet for a single Fronius inverter. It was not insulated. Maybe they could customize a unit to your specs? Dave -Original Message- From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of Kirk Sent: Friday, February 08, 2013 1:38 PM To: RE-wrenches Subject: [RE-wrenches] Insulated cabinet source Hello, I'm looking to source insulated cabinets, relatively large to house -3- Fronius 5 Kw inverters. They only have a low operating temp spec of -4F. I plan to supply min heat using a small resistive element. Long story, but inverters have to be mounted at the array and I must use Fronius. This is part of an OEM module evaluation in cold climates. Permitting does not allow building a shed. Thanks. Kirk Herander VSE ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Reporting on Efficient AC Refrig/Freezer
A month ago I was searching for an Energy Star RF of standard kitchen appeal for my rental house and with the Wrench groups help I found one I am very pleased with so far. Whirpool WRTL9SZY 19 Cubic Foot, Freezer on top no ice maker. $ 800 delivered Energy Guide Yellow Tag states 345kWh/Yr. To date I have measured (Kill A Watt meter) 741 WH/Day which projects out to 271kWh/Yr. RF is located in an area that is 70 to 78 degrees in this small wood stove heated home. Best, Dave David Palumbo Independent Power LLC 462 Solar Way Drive Hyde Park, VT 05655 www.independentpowerllc.com Vermont Solar Partner 25 Years Experience, (802) 888-7194 ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Enphase AC Frequency out of Range
Wrenchsters, I have an Enphase 7.5kW system on a residence with utility Smart Metering, both the PV Production Meter as well as the utility billing meter being read every hour. This system has experienced many AC Frequency Out Of Range events since the system was installed. Below is copied the Enphase Event message. This particular event was for 5 minutes. Most of the events (all events are AC Frequency Out Of Range) last 5 to 10 minutes but occasionally they have lasted from 45 minutes to 64 minutes. My question is: Could the use of the smart metering increase the likely hood that AC Frequency events happen? Or is this just a coincidence and that we are dealing with fluctuating utility power AC Frequency issues? Started on: Mon February 04, 2013 12:49 PM EST Cleared on: Mon February 04, 2013 12:54 PM EST Recommended action This condition should correct itself. No action is required. Details The microinverter reports that the frequency coming from the utility is either too low or too high as specified by applicable regional standards. AC frequency is the frequency at which voltage varies on the utility grid. Frequency Out of Range events are usually transient and self-correcting by the utility. When the microinverter detects an out of frequency condition, it must remain offline until the utility has been within acceptable limits continuously for a short period of time (seconds to minutes, varies by region). If during that time the utility again exceeds or falls short of acceptable limits, the five-minute timer must restart and the microinverter may not begin producing power for an additional short period following the last out-of-bounds condition. Best, Dave David Palumbo Independent Power LLC 462 Solar Way Drive Hyde Park, VT 05655 www.independentpowerllc.com Vermont Solar Partner 25 Years Experience, (802) 888-7194 ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Enphase AC Frequency out of Range
Thanks Daryl. Does your system also sometimes stay off for longer periods sometimes? My clients system can stay off for up to 64 minutes. Dave -Original Message- From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of penobscotso...@midmaine.com Sent: Tuesday, February 05, 2013 12:01 PM To: RE-wrenches Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Enphase AC Frequency out of Range Dave, We have been having the same problem with an Enphase system in Maine. I have been dealing directly with the third tier engineers at Enphase and they are working on a software fix for this. Theevent itself is only a fraction of a second but IEEE requirements are that the inverter shut down for five minutes. I only found out about this problem when it started for this customer. It sems that Enphase has already addressed the problem with a software fix for the M-190's. The M-215 fix should come, according to Enphase, by the end of March. It will be automatically downloaded through the Enlighten router. It's a known issue with Smart Meters with Enphase, but should be reconciled soon. Daryl DeJoy NABCEP Certified PV installer Penobscot Solar Design www.penobscotsolar.com Wrenchsters, I have an Enphase 7.5kW system on a residence with utility Smart Metering, both the PV Production Meter as well as the utility billing meter being read every hour. This system has experienced many AC Frequency Out Of Range events since the system was installed. Below is copied the Enphase Event message. This particular event was for 5 minutes. Most of the events (all events are AC Frequency Out Of Range) last 5 to 10 minutes but occasionally they have lasted from 45 minutes to 64 minutes. My question is: Could the use of the smart metering increase the likely hood that AC Frequency events happen? Or is this just a coincidence and that we are dealing with fluctuating utility power AC Frequency issues? Started on: Mon February 04, 2013 12:49 PM EST Cleared on: Mon February 04, 2013 12:54 PM EST Recommended action This condition should correct itself. No action is required. Details The microinverter reports that the frequency coming from the utility is either too low or too high as specified by applicable regional standards. AC frequency is the frequency at which voltage varies on the utility grid. Frequency Out of Range events are usually transient and self-correcting by the utility. When the microinverter detects an out of frequency condition, it must remain offline until the utility has been within acceptable limits continuously for a short period of time (seconds to minutes, varies by region). If during that time the utility again exceeds or falls short of acceptable limits, the five-minute timer must restart and the microinverter may not begin producing power for an additional short period following the last out-of-bounds condition. Best, Dave David Palumbo Independent Power LLC 462 Solar Way Drive Hyde Park, VT 05655 www.independentpowerllc.com Vermont Solar Partner 25 Years Experience, (802) 888-7194 ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] PV permitting standards
Marco, That's impressive! Little ol' Vermont has done somewhat over 2,000 in the last 10 years with 2012 coming in at 500 systems installed (best yr to date). Dave Palumbo From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of Marco Mangelsdorf Sent: Sunday, January 20, 2013 1:10 PM To: 'RE-wrenches' Subject: [RE-wrenches] PV permitting standards Thanks, Dave. What kind of volume are you seeing in Vermont? This past year on O'ahu, the AHJ issued more than 15,000 PV permits, more than the previous 10+ years COMBINED. marco From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of Dave Palumbo Sent: Sunday, January 20, 2013 4:51 AM To: 'RE-wrenches' Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] PV permitting standards Marco, Here in Vermont no schematic is required for residential PV system installations. There is a simple CPG process (Certificate of Public Good, which is automatically acquired within 11 business days after registering) for all systems 10kW and under. Larger residential systems can take about 6 weeks to get a CPG. Commercial installations do not necessarily require a schematic before being permitted. Our State Incentive Grant program (currently unfunded and suspended) has a review of system documentation including a simple one-line drawing before the Incentive is paid out after completion and commissioning of the system. About 10% of residential systems that receive an incentive also receive an inspection, these inspections happen well after the system is commissioned. The incentive was at 55 cents per DC Watt when the program closed at the end of 2012. This program will most likely open up again fairly soon at about 50 cents/Watt. Note that Vermont does not require that electrical work on residences be done by licensed electricians, except in the City of Burlington. In order to be eligible for the Incentive Grant the PV system has to be installed by a Vermont Solar Partner. In this way the state has some control over the quality of net metered PV installations. Off grid systems receive no incentives and are not being reviewed by any authorities. Best, Dave Palumbo From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of Marco Mangelsdorf Sent: Saturday, January 19, 2013 4:53 PM To: 'RE-wrenches' Subject: [RE-wrenches] PV permitting standards We've got a strange situation in our little Aloha State. While the counties of Maui, Kauai and the Big Island require a PV permit package to include system design schematics with the package, the largest county in the state by population, the island of O'ahu, does not require any schematic for residential systems. This blows my mind. I'm wondering if there are other AHJs out there on the Mainland where no schematics are required to obtain a PV permit. Any feedback would be appreciated. Thanks, marco ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Fridge recommendations?
I'm having difficulty finding a RF in the 16 to 20 cu ft range that uses less than 350kWh/yr. All of the GE units listed by Energy Star as 300 to 311kWh/yr are no longer being manufactured according to my local appliance dealers. I see a Fridgidaire 18.2 cu ft that uses 335kWh/yr (reviews that I see on this unit complained of loud clunky noises). Sun Frost units are too pricey for this application. Any recommendations? Thanks, Dave David Palumbo Independent Power LLC 462 Solar Way Drive Hyde Park, VT 05655 www.independentpowerllc.com Vermont Solar Partner 25 Years Experience, (802) 888-7194 ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Fridge recommendations?
Howie, I usually agree to the Kenmore/Sears recommendation but the closest Sears is coming in with is with 18 cu' units that are listed as using 385kWH/yr. Higher than I'd like. This is for an off grid home and the extra 50 kWh/yr translates to 137 Watt hours per day. For this particular home it will mean an average of 2.5 hours per day of generator run time during our cloudy snowy winter. This is for a small rental house on my property and I want to keep the gen run time down as low as possible. Non-winter times will not be a problem as the solar array will carry the RF as well as all the other loads in the home. Dave -Original Message- From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of Howie Michaelson Sent: Wednesday, January 09, 2013 3:01 PM To: RE-wrenches Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Fridge recommendations? Dave, I've always recommended Kenmore (Sears) which we have - they are reliable, quiet, and a good price point typically (especially if you get it on sale which them seem to have every other week). If you look for the right model, you should be able to get one that comes close to that usage, especially in the smaller models. Sears' website lists the kWh yearly usage last time I looked. Howie -- Howie Michaelson NABCEP Certified Solar PV InstallerT Catamount Solar, LLC Renewable Energy Systems Sales and Service VT Solar Electric Hot Water Incentive Partner http://www.CatamountSolar.com 802-272-0004 On Wed, January 9, 2013 2:44 pm, Dave Palumbo wrote: I'm having difficulty finding a RF in the 16 to 20 cu ft range that uses less than 350kWh/yr. All of the GE units listed by Energy Star as 300 to 311kWh/yr are no longer being manufactured according to my local appliance dealers. I see a Fridgidaire 18.2 cu ft that uses 335kWh/yr (reviews that I see on this unit complained of loud clunky noises). Sun Frost units are too pricey for this application. Any recommendations? Thanks, Dave David Palumbo Independent Power LLC 462 Solar Way Drive Hyde Park, VT 05655 www.independentpowerllc.com Vermont Solar Partner 25 Years Experience, (802) 888-7194 ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Fridge recommendations?
Dan, Good to know. I appreciate the comment on the relativity of the noise. I will strongly consider going with the Frigidaire. I had heard the GE's were noisy too. Dave From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of Dan Fink Sent: Wednesday, January 09, 2013 3:24 PM To: RE-wrenches Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Fridge recommendations? Hi Dave; Yah, the nice GE super-efficient models have been discontinued for a year or 2. A couple of them are up here in our off-grid community, and I still run into them at motels etc. when we are at a remote jobsite. They are very efficient and quite noisy. I have the exact Frigidaire you are talking about; I guess it's noisy, but not quite as bad as those GEs. Up here off the grid. noisy is pretty darned relative compared to a gasoline generator! The GEs seem to run fine off a Trace U-series, but my Frigidaire did NOT like mod sine wave in any form. Had to install a new sine wave inverter. -- Dan Fink, Executive Director; Otherpower Buckville Energy Consulting Buckville Publications LLC NABCEP / IREC accredited Continuing Education Providers 970.672.4342 (voicemail) On Wed, Jan 9, 2013 at 12:44 PM, Dave Palumbo d...@independentpowerllc.com wrote: I'm having difficulty finding a RF in the 16 to 20 cu ft range that uses less than 350kWh/yr. All of the GE units listed by Energy Star as 300 to 311kWh/yr are no longer being manufactured according to my local appliance dealers. I see a Fridgidaire 18.2 cu ft that uses 335kWh/yr (reviews that I see on this unit complained of loud clunky noises). Sun Frost units are too pricey for this application. Any recommendations? Thanks, Dave David Palumbo Independent Power LLC 462 Solar Way Drive Hyde Park, VT 05655 www.independentpowerllc.com Vermont Solar Partner 25 Years Experience, (802) 888-7194 tel:%28802%29%20888-7194 ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Fridge recommendations?
This house has an OutBack FX 2012. I'm assuming that this will be a good enough sine wave. Dave From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of Dan Fink Sent: Wednesday, January 09, 2013 3:24 PM To: RE-wrenches Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Fridge recommendations? Hi Dave; Yah, the nice GE super-efficient models have been discontinued for a year or 2. A couple of them are up here in our off-grid community, and I still run into them at motels etc. when we are at a remote jobsite. They are very efficient and quite noisy. I have the exact Frigidaire you are talking about; I guess it's noisy, but not quite as bad as those GEs. Up here off the grid. noisy is pretty darned relative compared to a gasoline generator! The GEs seem to run fine off a Trace U-series, but my Frigidaire did NOT like mod sine wave in any form. Had to install a new sine wave inverter. -- Dan Fink, Executive Director; Otherpower Buckville Energy Consulting Buckville Publications LLC NABCEP / IREC accredited Continuing Education Providers 970.672.4342 (voicemail) On Wed, Jan 9, 2013 at 12:44 PM, Dave Palumbo d...@independentpowerllc.com wrote: I'm having difficulty finding a RF in the 16 to 20 cu ft range that uses less than 350kWh/yr. All of the GE units listed by Energy Star as 300 to 311kWh/yr are no longer being manufactured according to my local appliance dealers. I see a Fridgidaire 18.2 cu ft that uses 335kWh/yr (reviews that I see on this unit complained of loud clunky noises). Sun Frost units are too pricey for this application. Any recommendations? Thanks, Dave David Palumbo Independent Power LLC 462 Solar Way Drive Hyde Park, VT 05655 www.independentpowerllc.com Vermont Solar Partner 25 Years Experience, (802) 888-7194 tel:%28802%29%20888-7194 ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Fridge recommendations?
Off grid. And good suggestions from Rob and Todd on the cold location. Best, Dave From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of conrad geyser Sent: Wednesday, January 09, 2013 3:52 PM To: 'RE-wrenches' Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Fridge recommendations? David, Is this on or off grid? Conrad Cotuit Solar From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of Rob Shappell Sent: Wednesday, January 09, 2013 3:44 PM To: 'RE-wrenches' Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Fridge recommendations? If possible, locate the refer in a cold room to reduce winter consumption. We had a Sunfrost RF 12, and a cold room for winter. Brrr. Rob From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of Dave Palumbo Sent: Wednesday, January 09, 2013 2:45 PM To: 'RE-wrenches' Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Fridge recommendations? I'm having difficulty finding a RF in the 16 to 20 cu ft range that uses less than 350kWh/yr. All of the GE units listed by Energy Star as 300 to 311kWh/yr are no longer being manufactured according to my local appliance dealers. I see a Fridgidaire 18.2 cu ft that uses 335kWh/yr (reviews that I see on this unit complained of loud clunky noises). Sun Frost units are too pricey for this application. Any recommendations? Thanks, Dave David Palumbo Independent Power LLC 462 Solar Way Drive Hyde Park, VT 05655 www.independentpowerllc.com Vermont Solar Partner 25 Years Experience, (802) 888-7194 ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Fridge recommendations?
Michael, This is the same list I referred to in my first post that has a bunch of GE's listed for 311kWh. Un fortunately these units are no longer made. Dave From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of Michael Welch Sent: Wednesday, January 09, 2013 3:46 PM To: RE-wrenches Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Fridge recommendations? Hi Dave et. al. It sounds like you might already know this good resource, a product list which is probably as up to date as one can get. You can download the Energy Star fridge/freezer database in Excel format, and sort on one or more columns to see the models with the features and energy performance you are looking for. http://1.usa.gov/ZIkdvW Also has similar pages for many other appliance categories. On Wed, Jan 9, 2013 at 12:44 PM, Dave Palumbo d...@independentpowerllc.com mailto:d...@independentpowerllc.com wrote: I'm having difficulty finding a RF in the 16 to 20 cu ft range that uses less than 350kWh/yr. All of the GE units listed by Energy Star as 300 to 311kWh/yr are no longer being manufactured according to my local appliance dealers. I see a Fridgidaire 18.2 cu ft that uses 335kWh/yr (reviews that I see on this unit complained of loud clunky noises). Sun Frost units are too pricey for this application. Any recommendations? ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Fridge recommendations?
Brian, It's a small, older off grid home (I built it in 1985). And it often is so snowy and cloudy here that we can go 20 days with little to show from our PV array. This often lasts from November through March. At my site in Lamoille County, Vermont, over 27 years the worst two months of winter has averaged less than 1 Sun Hour/Day. This ain't Cali!! The PV array is already a C/10 ratio to the battery bank. And I am upping that to a C/7.5 ratio in the spring, as much as I dare to go with Full River AGM's. Dave -Original Message- From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of Brian Teitelbaum Sent: Wednesday, January 09, 2013 5:08 PM To: RE-wrenches Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Fridge recommendations? Dave, 137Whrs/day is less than 3Ah/day on a 48V battery. Not really that large a hit if the battery bank is not too small, even if you have 10 cloudy days in a row. Adding more PV will give you more charging power even on a cloudy day. Even if you only get 20W out of a 250W module, which would be something like 100 Whrs over the course of a cloudy day (most of the insolation is from diffuse light on a cloudy day, so you would see that 20W over more hours). Adding a 250W module (if you can add just one) would be cheaper than getting a SunFrost. Brian Teitelbaum AEE Solar -Original Message- From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of Dave Palumbo Sent: Wednesday, January 09, 2013 12:23 PM To: ho...@catamountsolar.com; 'RE-wrenches' Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Fridge recommendations? Howie, I usually agree to the Kenmore/Sears recommendation but the closest Sears is coming in with is with 18 cu' units that are listed as using 385kWH/yr. Higher than I'd like. This is for an off grid home and the extra 50 kWh/yr translates to 137 Watt hours per day. For this particular home it will mean an average of 2.5 hours per day of generator run time during our cloudy snowy winter. This is for a small rental house on my property and I want to keep the gen run time down as low as possible. Non-winter times will not be a problem as the solar array will carry the RF as well as all the other loads in the home. Dave -Original Message- From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of Howie Michaelson Sent: Wednesday, January 09, 2013 3:01 PM To: RE-wrenches Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Fridge recommendations? Dave, I've always recommended Kenmore (Sears) which we have - they are reliable, quiet, and a good price point typically (especially if you get it on sale which them seem to have every other week). If you look for the right model, you should be able to get one that comes close to that usage, especially in the smaller models. Sears' website lists the kWh yearly usage last time I looked. Howie -- Howie Michaelson NABCEP Certified Solar PV InstallerT Catamount Solar, LLC Renewable Energy Systems Sales and Service VT Solar Electric Hot Water Incentive Partner http://www.CatamountSolar.com 802-272-0004 On Wed, January 9, 2013 2:44 pm, Dave Palumbo wrote: I'm having difficulty finding a RF in the 16 to 20 cu ft range that uses less than 350kWh/yr. All of the GE units listed by Energy Star as 300 to 311kWh/yr are no longer being manufactured according to my local appliance dealers. I see a Fridgidaire 18.2 cu ft that uses 335kWh/yr (reviews that I see on this unit complained of loud clunky noises). Sun Frost units are too pricey for this application. Any recommendations? Thanks, Dave David Palumbo Independent Power LLC 462 Solar Way Drive Hyde Park, VT 05655 www.independentpowerllc.com Vermont Solar Partner 25 Years Experience, (802) 888-7194 ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] cleaning battery caps
I don't think these caps ever worked real well. And as batteries get older they use more water, right? Dave -Original Message- From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of jay peltz Sent: Wednesday, January 09, 2013 8:31 PM To: RE-wrenches Subject: [RE-wrenches] cleaning battery caps Yea weird. I've got a client who wants to clean his water miser battery caps, they are filled with battery scum He thinks and seems right to me that they are not working as well as they used to, and I dont know what to tell him Any ideas? thanks, jay ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Best practices for conduit penetration on roof
Rich, We have been using SolaDeck PV roof mount enclosure. NEMA 3R with a flashed penetration. Can use for combining, or simply as a pass through box. Dave David Palumbo Independent Power LLC 462 Solar Way Drive Hyde Park, VT 05655 www.independentpowerllc.com NABCEP Certified PV Installer Vermont Solar Partner 25 Years Experience, (802) 888-7194 -Original Message- From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of Rich Nicol Sent: Sunday, November 25, 2012 8:11 AM To: 'RE-wrenches' Subject: [RE-wrenches] Best practices for conduit penetration on roof Wrenches, We typically run conduit for roof mounts over the edge of the roof to the eaves, rather than penetrate the roof whenever possible. An upcoming installation on an freshly asphalt shingled roof requires that we penetrate the roof for the conduit run (Enphase). I'm wondering if there are any suggestions for preferred flashing products and best known practices. It's always seemed to me that the typical Oatey type flashing dries and cracks eventually. Thanks for your insights.. Rich ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Best practices for conduit penetration on roof
Bill, I think so. http://www.rstcenterprises.com/soladeck/ Dave -Original Message- From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of William Dorsett Sent: Sunday, November 25, 2012 9:49 AM To: 'RE-wrenches' Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Best practices for conduit penetration on roof Dave, does Soladeck have a smaller basic junction box without the combiner box fittings? Bill Dorsett Manhattan, KS -Original Message- From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of Dave Palumbo Sent: Sunday, November 25, 2012 8:20 AM To: 'RE-wrenches' Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Best practices for conduit penetration on roof Rich, We have been using SolaDeck PV roof mount enclosure. NEMA 3R with a flashed penetration. Can use for combining, or simply as a pass through box. Dave David Palumbo Independent Power LLC 462 Solar Way Drive Hyde Park, VT 05655 www.independentpowerllc.com NABCEP Certified PV Installer Vermont Solar Partner 25 Years Experience, (802) 888-7194 -Original Message- From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of Rich Nicol Sent: Sunday, November 25, 2012 8:11 AM To: 'RE-wrenches' Subject: [RE-wrenches] Best practices for conduit penetration on roof Wrenches, We typically run conduit for roof mounts over the edge of the roof to the eaves, rather than penetrate the roof whenever possible. An upcoming installation on an freshly asphalt shingled roof requires that we penetrate the roof for the conduit run (Enphase). I'm wondering if there are any suggestions for preferred flashing products and best known practices. It's always seemed to me that the typical Oatey type flashing dries and cracks eventually. Thanks for your insights.. Rich ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Outback Mate3
Howie, We have a couple of these out there now. They are good for techno geek types. But for regular people they are no easier than the Mate 2. David Palumbo Independent Power LLC 462 Solar Way Drive Hyde Park, VT 05655 www.independentpowerllc.com NABCEP Certified PV Installer Vermont Solar Partner 25 Years Experience, (802) 888-7194 Dave -Original Message- From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of Howie Michaelson Sent: Saturday, October 20, 2012 2:10 PM To: RE-wrenches Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Outback Mate3 Thanks Daryl for the feedback. Have you or anyone else used the Mate3 on a VFX or GVFX, and is that an improvement over using the Mate2? Howie -- Howie Michaelson NABCEP Certified Solar PV InstallerT Catamount Solar, LLC Renewable Energy Systems Sales and Service VT Solar Electric Hot Water Incentive Partner http://www.CatamountSolar.com 802-272-0004 On Sat, October 20, 2012 1:55 pm, penobscotso...@midmaine.com wrote: Hi Howie, Having installed a half dozen Radians so far I have gotten comfortable fairly quickly with the Mate3. It is much more intuitive than the original Mate and uses a touch pad similar to an Ipod. I have had an issue a couple of times not being well grounded and the touch pad was a bit buggy then, but overall the Mate3 is quite an improvement over it's predecessor. The screen interface showing the FNDC is similar to the Mate2. I do think that everyone has varying degrees of intuitiveness about remotes and on a scale of 1 to 10 I am probably a 6 at best, and yet I found the Mate3 easy to maneuver and program. I am now using one on my own system. Just one mans opinion, of course. Daryl Howdy folks, Having used, been abused by, and spending countless hours attempting to talk through clients over the phone through the elegant menu structure of the Outback Mate2 since it was first released, I'm very interested in hearing people's experience with the Mate 3 and whether it is worth the added money to include it in a system for clients, particularly that are challenged by a simple on/off switch. Is it enough of an improvement to make a difference to clients' ability to understand and control their system? How about the interface with the FNDC - are those screens any less confusing? I have not even seen the Mate3 yet, so any and all experience and feedback is welcomed. Thanks as always, Howie -- Howie Michaelson NABCEP Certified Solar PV InstallerT Catamount Solar, LLC Renewable Energy Systems Sales and Service VT Solar Electric Hot Water Incentive Partner http://www.CatamountSolar.com 802-272-0004 ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Off-grid non-inverter battery charger recommendations?
There is a potentiometer on the board of the IOTA chargers that used to be assessable through a hole in the cover. I adjusted a new one two weeks ago and had to open it up to get at the pot. Adjusts up 15.6VDC with plug in and 14.8 with the jumper plug out. Some of the older models would adjust up to 16.5V and the new ones may as well, I did not need that value with the last charger. These are very simple units that could be considered a fire hazard in the wrong place/hands. I use for the lowest of the low budgets that are way, way off-grid and always explain the caveat to not have flammable things anywhere close to it. I had a couple of Todds spark off a number of years ago. Caused some excitement. -Dave David Palumbo Independent Power LLC 462 Solar Way Drive Hyde Park, VT 05655 www.independentpowerllc.com NABCEP Certified PV Installer Vermont Solar Partner 24 Years Experience, (802) 888-7194 From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of William Dorsett Sent: Monday, October 15, 2012 2:27 PM To: 'RE-wrenches' Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Off-grid non-inverter battery charger recommendations? Thanks Aaron, but I need one that goes to 15.5 or 16V for equalizing the bank. Just got this back from Iota: Iota does not make any chargers that go to 15 volts output for equalizing. Thank you Iota Engineering Xantrex TruCharge 20 at least has an equalize setting, though I don't know how adjustable it is. Bill Dorsett Sunwrights Manhattan, KS From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of Aaron Mandelkorn Sent: Monday, October 15, 2012 10:24 AM To: RE-wrenches Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Off-grid non-inverter battery charger recommendations? Check out Iota. Aaron Mandelkorn NABCEP Certified PV Installer Renewable Energy Outfitters Box 65 Salida, CO. 81201 (970)596-3744 reoso...@gmail.com www.reosolar.com On Oct 15, 2012, at 9:14 AM, William Dorsett wrote: What brand recommendations do the group have for an battery charger to be plugged into a genset? Used to be Todd but at some point they lost favor. Thanks all. Bill Dorsett Sunwrights 1715 Leavenworth Manhattan, KS 785/539-1956 Home/Office ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Metering a whole house Outback system
Dave, Sounds like a great solution. We have an OB Radian net-metered PV with battery back-up coming up this fall. Where do we source an Elkor meter? Thanks, Dave David Palumbo Independent Power LLC 462 Solar Way Drive Hyde Park, VT 05655 www.independentpowerllc.com NABCEP Certified PV Installer Vermont Solar Partner 24 Years Experience, (802) 888-7194 From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of David Katz Sent: Monday, August 20, 2012 3:48 PM To: RE-wrenches Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Metering a whole house Outback system Hilton, I am metering an Outback Radian in this situation. I am using an Elkor meter with a pair of current transformers, but you can use and meter with CTs. Just feed the two AC lines from the main panel through the CTs to the AC in of the inverters, then run the wires coming from the inverters output, going to the sub-panel back through the same CTs, keeping the L1 and L2 in phase. This way the utility power cancels and you only read the inverters output. You get the sum of what goes to the grid and what is used kb the subpanel. It also subtracts what is used to float the batteries. I read my Elkor meter with a SolarLog monitor. David Katz Sent from my HTC smartphone on the Now Network from Sprint! - Reply message - From: Hilton Dier III hiltond...@gmail.com To: re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Subject: [RE-wrenches] Metering a whole house Outback system Date: Mon, Aug 20, 2012 9:15 am Hello Wrenches, Here's a metering conundrum for you. I have a client with a dual stacked Outback 3648 inverter panel and a PV array. He has been off-grid for years, but he is now going on-grid. He is getting the Outbacks rebuilt at the factory to be grid tie compatible. As per our local requirements, he needs a meter to read just the output of the inverter. The problem is that he has the whole house on the inverters, not just a vital loads panel. He wants to keep it that way. That gives him two separate outputs, AC Out to the main breaker panel and AC In(teractive) to the grid connection. If he just puts a meter on the AC In line, he will lose track of the inverter output that goes to power the house, and he'll get his output reduced by any grid-based charging he does. There is a green tag method of wiring the meter to avoid this, but it is designed for two single-leg 120VAC outputs and the stacked Outbacks are putting out 240VAC on two legs. Aside from dropping $600 on an e-Gauge, is there any way to get around this? Many thanks, Hilton -- Hilton Dier III Renewable Energy Design Partner, Solar Gain LLC 453 East Hill Rd. Middlesex, VT 05602 ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Voltage settings for AGM's in grid tie with back up
I am looking for a recommendation for Max Voltage, and how often to attain this bulk voltage? For the following system: . Trojan 8D AGM battery bank (4 bats for 11kWh rated storage with 900 Watts of PV) . Home was previously off gird. We upgraded it to a grid tied net metered system using OutBack pre-wired FP1-3 (GVFX3524 with FM 80 etc.) I know with wet cell L-16RE's in a Radian grid back up application we were told to program an Equalization charge every 60 days which we can do with that Radian system. . Right now we have this system set up as follows: FM 80 PV Charge Controller: * GT (Grid Tied enabled) * Absorb 28.6 V * Absorb time 4 hrs * Float 27.0 V * End Amps 0 (originally had set at 9A but OutBack senior tech support person Katee Wood helped us understand the need for -0- when trying to sell) Flex Net DC set to: Firmware REV 001.001.071 * Battery Voltage 28.0 * Return Amps 9.2 * Parameters met 1 minute * 94% charge efficiency Mate 2 controller settings: REV 4.2.1 * AC input USE * RE-Float 25.0 * Absorb 28.2V * Absorb time 0.1 * Float 27.0 * Float time 0 * Sell RE Voltage 25.6 * GT Authority Grid Tie * Re-bulk 24.0V After some learning curve selling problems it has now been selling very well for the past two weeks. But the state of charge is now down to 70% on the Flex Net (I don't know the accuracy of this as Katee had us disable the FN DC Advanced Grid Tie Authority feature in the interest of much better selling performance) and the MAX Voltage has only reached 26.4. The MIN Voltage is 25.5. They typically are sitting at 25.9 to 26.2 Volts. This customer, having been a good caretaker of wet cell LA's for 15 years is concerned that we get the settings as good as is possible for efficient selling but also to foster as long a battery life as is possible. What is the best way to reach an occasional high voltage of say 28.4 (if that is our target). Is this programmable automatically with this OutBack setup or do we need to trigger a bulk charge manually? . If so. What is the easiest, and or best way, to trigger the bulk charge? Thanks, Dave David Palumbo Independent Power LLC 462 Solar Way Drive Hyde Park, VT 05655 www.independentpowerllc.com NABCEP Certified PV Installer Vermont Solar Partner 24 Years Experience, (802) 888-7194 ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Battery Experience
We have had less than stellar performance out of the Crown L-16's that we installed 4 to 5 years ago. Premature failure is my experience. About 60% of the cycle life compared to Trojan L-16's and also Surrette/Rolls. I've been using those since 1985. Back to using Trojan. Specifically RE-B's either L-16, or T-105. And have used Trojan Industrial IND 13-6V on one system with good success with another set ordered. Dave From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of SunHarvest Sent: Friday, June 29, 2012 11:56 AM To: RE-wrenches Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Battery Experience Just got talked into buying Crown (395Ah@20Hr) as my local rep, the battery expert, was persuasive in his testimony to their reliability. Should've consulted wrenches first. Should I be worried?? Eric Stikes SunHarvest Solar +1 (530) 798 - 3738 www.harvesthesun.com ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Solar World 2.0 frames
All, We are considering using Solar World 2.0 framed modules. Not having put hands on these yet, we are looking for testimonials and opinions on these top mount only modules. And while we're at, it what about Solar World's 2.5's with the bottom mount flange? David Palumbo Independent Power LLC 462 Solar Way Drive Hyde Park, VT 05655 www.independentpowerllc.com NABCEP Certified PV Installer Vermont Solar Partner 24 Years Experience, (802) 888-7194 ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Combining Solectria PVI 2500 with SB3000
Wrenches, We have an installation in place since 2008 working well with a Solectria PVI 2500 feeding a supply side grid connection. Homeowner wants us to double the system size now. I can buy a SB3000 inverter for $ 300 less than the Solectria PVI 2500 (with upcharge for 10 yr warranty) and I'm inclined to go with the Sunny Boy. We would add an Inverter 240Vac combiner load center before our 30A Fused Disconnect. I would think that it would be OK to combine the 240vac outputs of different inverter manufacturers and sell into the grid but never having done this I wanted to run it by you folks. The SMA phone tech didn't seem to be the most experienced person and after I spoke with him for a minute I had him saying that it should work fine. But wanted to check with more experienced people. One wrinkle is that the Solectria does not use a Neutral, but the Sunny Boy does. Again, I don't think that this will any problem. David Palumbo Independent Power LLC 462 Solar Way Drive Hyde Park, VT 05655 www.independentpowerllc.com NABCEP Certified PV Installer Vermont Solar Partner 24 Years Experience, (802) 888-7194 ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Combining Solectria PVI 2500 with SB3000
Dave, Very good. Thanks for the pick up on the 650A Service Disconnect issue. Dave Palumbo -Original Message- From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of Dave Click Sent: Thursday, April 19, 2012 1:39 PM To: re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Combining Solectria PVI 2500 with SB3000 This is fine; your PVI2500 is rated for 10.4A, while the SB3000 is 12.5A. You can put up to 24A rated current through your 30A fuses. Though the disconnect isn't technically a service disconnect, I'd recommend using a 60A rated (fused at 30A) disconnect per 230.79(D). You would run a neutral to your combining panel and I'd recommend a PV SYSTEM ONLY; NO LOAD CIRCUITS TO BE ADDED placard on that. Otherwise that'll be an electrician's first choice when wiring up the new 40A hot tub. I think something like the Cutler-Hammer BR24L70RP panel may be a good fit, and it would replace your fused disconnect. It only has space for two 2P breakers (no main). On 2012/4/19 12:29, Dave Palumbo wrote: Wrenches, We have an installation in place since 2008 working well with a Solectria PVI 2500 feeding a supply side grid connection. Homeowner wants us to double the system size now. I can buy a SB3000 inverter for $ 300 less than the Solectria PVI 2500 (with upcharge for 10 yr warranty) and I'm inclined to go with the Sunny Boy. We would add an Inverter 240Vac combiner load center before our 30A Fused Disconnect. I would think that it would be OK to combine the 240vac outputs of different inverter manufacturers and sell into the grid but never having done this I wanted to run it by you folks. The SMA phone tech didn't seem to be the most experienced person and after I spoke with him for a minute I had him saying that it should work fine. But wanted to check with more experienced people. One wrinkle is that the Solectria does not use a Neutral, but the Sunny Boy does. Again, I don't think that this will any problem. David Palumbo Independent Power LLC 462 Solar Way Drive Hyde Park, VT 05655** */www.independentpowerllc.com /* NABCEP Certified PV Installer Vermont Solar Partner 24 Years Experience, (802) 888-7194 ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] NABCEP Credits
Wrenches, I am trying to chase down NABCEP credit hours from the Feb 28/29th ALT E Dealer Conference in Waterville Valley, NH. The trainers said they would send the certificates out to folks when they got back to their offices. 4 weeks later and no certificates (needed for recertification for an employee). We would appreciate any contact information for someone in the following organizations whom may be responsive enough to help us out. . Schneider Electric . Deka Battery (East Penn) David Palumbo Independent Power LLC 462 Solar Way Drive Hyde Park, VT 05655 www.independentpowerllc.com NABCEP Certified PV Installer Vermont Solar Partner 24 Years Experience, (802) 888-7194 ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Grounding Separately Derived AC System
Regarding NEC Article 250.30 does Informational Note #1 mean that a standard (no battery) grid-tied PV system is not a Separately Derived System? I'm primarily interested on the consensus view of Bonding the Neutral (grounded conductor) to Equipment Ground in a 60 Amp Fused Disconnect located between the 240VAC inverter output and AC point of connection on the load side of the meter in the service disconnect enclosure in a supply side connected PV system. 250.30 Informational Note 1 reads: An alternate ac power source, such as an on-site generator, is not a separately derived system if the grounded conductor is solidly interconnected to a service-supplied system grounded conductor. I believe a PV system meets that description as the Neutral stays connected at all times. My interpretation is that a standard net-metered PV system is therefore not a separately derived system and the Neutral should not have a bonding jumper to equipment ground in the Fused Disconnect. Is this the correct interpretation? David Palumbo Independent Power LLC 462 Solar Way Drive Hyde Park, VT 05655 www.independentpowerllc.com NABCEP Certified PV Installer Vermont Solar Partner 24 Years Experience, (802) 888-7194 ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Electrolytic Caps vs. Thin Film Caps
must specify the coldest temperature as a part of their UL1741 certification effort, and that's the coldest to which it will be tested and verified as operational by the UL certification laboratory (NRTL). Will it operate below the min temperature spec? It might. But then again, it's not verified to do so. Some bad things can happen if the components don't handle cold very well, and power is applied (such as actual failure of parts.) Quality electrolytic capacitors are generally rated to -40C (which also happens to be -40F). Film caps are often rated for temperatures below -40C, but at -40C, other components such as microprocessor clock crystals and many integrated circuits will fail to operate, so the point of film caps being rated for colder temperatures than electrolytic caps is moot. Note this is fail to operate, not fail. Cold-temperature components rated to -55C *could* be used in inverter construction, but parts of this type add cost (sometimes considerably) to the finished product price. By the way .. to your point of cold temperature specs not appearing in writing ... Our PVAC Modules *are* rated to operate at -40C, and have been tested to that temperature by the UL test lab. This rating is stated in writing in our brochures as well as the PVAC Module Installation Manual/User's Guide. Dan --- On Sun, 1/15/12, Dave Palumbo d...@independentpowerllc.com wrote: From: Dave Palumbo d...@independentpowerllc.com Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Electrolytic Caps vs. Thin Film Caps To: 'RE-wrenches' re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Date: Sunday, January 15, 2012, 7:32 AM Dan, Any worries with inverters located out in 30 below zero temps with either Electrolytic Caps or Film Capacitors? It's very cold here this AM (minus twenty something F) and it makes me wonder about all the inverters, both micro's and string, outside in cold weather areas. We've been told in the past by SMA, Fronius and Solectria that we should be good down to 40 below, although this is typically not found in their technical documents in print. David Palumbo Independent Power LLC 462 Solar Way Drive Hyde Park, VT 05655 www.independentpowerllc.com http://www.independentpowerllc.com/ NABCEP Certified PV Installer Vermont Solar Partner 24 Years Experience, (802) 888-7194 ___ ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org http://www.members.re-wrenches.org/ Drake Chamberlin ATHENS ELECTRIC LLC OH License 44810 CO license 3773 NABCEP Certified PV ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Request for Gennie Recommendation
Chris, It would be very helpful if you quote run hours rather than years. For example we have seen: . Inexpensive small generators (generally not worth rebuilding) 300 to 500 hours. These are gasoline models of various brands and Generac LP gas models. 3kW to 10kW in size typically. . Honda gasoline generators 2,500 hours and then rebuild. . 10kW Kohler water cooled diesel gen set still operating within specs at 9,600 hours (rebuilt after 5,500 hrs). This has been in service for 16 years, the first 4 years without inverter/battery system, and another 6 years before the client had us add a PV array to the system. Since adding the PV array the generator has run 200 hours per year. All are in off-grid service and loaded at 65% MAX continuous (see some surges higher than 65%, typically run at 60%, or below, of rated power). David Palumbo Independent Power LLC 462 Solar Way Drive Hyde Park, VT 05655 www.independentpowerllc.com NABCEP Certified PV Installer Vermont Solar Partner 24 Years Experience, (802) 888-7194 From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of Comet Systems Sent: Monday, January 16, 2012 10:21 AM To: ho...@catamountsolar.com; RE-wrenches Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Request for Gennie Recommendation The Generac QT and commercial units do not come with an ATS, you can buy just the bare machine or have a complete solution designed for your load. The Generac residential machines are good machines, as long as you understand the intended use. We install lots of them. They are only designed to be used occasionally, for residential backup. We get customers who want to run their business all day on a 10KW residential generator and are disappointed that the generator won't last ten years. They are a cheap, lightweight and cost effective solution for people who get occasional outages. If your customer has worn out two generators already, then (s)he needs to pay for a commercial level product. A 22KW QT is not that expensive and will last ten years at a substantial load factor. If you give me more information on the location, load factor and loading, I can have engineering recommend a solution for you. -- Chris Mason President, Comet Systems Ltd mas...@cometsystems.co www.cometsystems.co Cell: 264.235.5670 Int: +1305.767.2094 Skype: netconcepts ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Electrolytic Caps vs. Thin Film Caps
Dan, Any worries with inverters located out in 30 below zero temps with either Electrolytic Caps or Film Capacitors? It's very cold here this AM (minus twenty something F) and it makes me wonder about all the inverters, both micro's and string, outside in cold weather areas. We've been told in the past by SMA, Fronius and Solectria that we should be good down to 40 below, although this is typically not found in their technical documents in print. David Palumbo Independent Power LLC 462 Solar Way Drive Hyde Park, VT 05655 www.independentpowerllc.com NABCEP Certified PV Installer Vermont Solar Partner 24 Years Experience, (802) 888-7194 -Original Message- From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of Exeltech Sent: Sunday, January 15, 2012 12:48 AM To: RE-wrenches Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Electrolytic Caps vs. Thin Film Caps Hello Ryan, I can only speculate as to why the electrolytic capacitors are bad rumor persists. There are any number of possibilities, such as those I'm about to list below. It likely is combinations of or even all of these... Possibility #1: 40 years ago, the best electrolytic caps didn't last more than 5 to 10 years. Today, a quality electrolytic cap used within its specifications will live 60-70 years, yet this rumor won't die. If YOU were making film capacitors to compete with electrolytic caps, wouldn't YOU exploit this misconception about electrolytic caps to your advantage? That's what is happening here. Part 'B' to this answer, film caps cost more than electrolytic capacitors of the same value. Based on 40 years design experience, Im guessing there's more profit per part as well. Capacitor firms making both electrolytic caps and film caps may seem to be in a win-win situation, but that's not entirely correct. Their motivation to push film cap is obvious: Sell the products where you make more money. Possibility #2: Because there ARE very low-quality electrolytic caps that DO have a short lifespan we commonly find used in cheap equipment by manufacturers whose goal is to sell you a 1,000 watt inverter for $29. We all know about those. Possibility #3: Because film caps will theoretically last longer than electrolytic caps. However .. as a point of information, film caps can be ruined in a short time by using them beyond their specs in a poor circuit design, just like any other part. Also, film caps are larger and more expensive than quality electrolytic caps. If as a design engineer you could choose between a quality electrolytic cap that will live 60-70 years, or a film cap that may last 80 years, but is larger and more expensive than the electrolytic, which would YOU choose? Possibility #4: Why do film cap folks continue this rumor? Because they can .. and it's to their advantage to do so. --- Constructional Differences: First, let's define the basic construction of a capacitor. It's nothing more than two electrical conductors separated by an insulator. Two wires side-by-side in a power cord form a capacitor, but the capacitance value tends to be so low that we can ignore it in a 50 Hz or 60 Hz application. Capacitance value is fundamentally determined by: a) the surface area involved between the two conductors; b) the distance from one conductor to the other; c) the insulating material between the conductors. The type of insulator between the conductors helps to establish two aspects of the capacitor's specs: a) Capacitance value, and; b) breakdown voltage rating. Electrolytic capacitors achieve their capacitance in part by using an electrolyte that resembles a very light oil. The electrolyte is located between the two conductors, and is kept there in a paper-like material. The conductors in this case are two very thin layers of special metal (usually aluminum) wrapped in a circle, much as if it were a paper towel roll. Film capacitors are manufactured by applying a metallic spray to each side of a very thin layer of special plastic that resembles the plastic wrap we use to protect food in our refrigerator. The plastic in this case is the insulator, but it doesn't have nearly as high as what I'll call capacitance multiplication factor as does the oil-type electrolyte. Thus, to achieve a similar capacitance value, a film capacitor must be larger than its electrolytic cousin. This in some cases can be *much* larger. Some of the weaknesses in film capacitors have defined above .. a larger physical size for any given value capacitance, and higher cost than comparable high-quality electrolytic caps, for openers. When size and costs are important in our solar energy market today, either and both of these shortcomings are show-stoppers to me. Why make a product larger and more costly than it needs to be if the alternative, when used correctly, will outlive all of us anyway? Ryan... You asked some excellent questions in a very short post. My apologies
Re: [RE-wrenches] battery venting
Zephyr vent fans have a small vent hole located on the pvc housing below the damper flap so if/when the fan fails the gasses are still able to escape from the battery box and dissipate into a larger space. David Palumbo Independent Power LLC 462 Solar Way Drive Hyde Park, VT 05655 www.independentpowerllc.com NABCEP Certified PV Installer Vermont Solar Partner 23 Years Experience, (802) 888-7194 -Original Message- From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of Richard L Ratico Sent: Saturday, December 31, 2011 2:47 PM To: re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] battery venting Huh??? I'm probably missiing something here. What happens when the powervent fails??? I replace it with another, the same thing I do when other equipment in our whiz bang industry fails. The difference with the powervent is that it is easy and relatively inexpensive. I've also had good luck using screens on the vent inlet and outlets, per the instuctions, albeit a high tech solution. :-) Seems inverters, charge controllers, batteries, DC breakers, even modules fail more frequenty. Rant off. Dick Ratico Solarwind Electric --- You wrote: Jeffrey, I'll second Jay's suggestion that sealed AGM batteries are the best choice in this circumstance. Presumably this is a grid backup system so the poor endurance of AGMs for cycling applications shouldn't be an issue. If you use a Zephyr power vent horizontal runs shouldn't be problem, but what happens when the power vent fails? It will fail. I've seen the bearings wear out on one and another that failed when insects got into the blades and gummed it up to the point that the motor stalled. Kent Osterberg Blue Mountain Solar, Inc. www.bluemountainsolar.com t: 541-568-4882 On 12/31/2011 6:59 AM, JRQ wrote: Wrenches, I'm looking at a potential battery backup system wtih a 200 AH @48V flooded battery bank in the basement electrical room of a 3 story building. There is a window in the electrical room. The batteries will be located about 10' from an outdoor wall. The building is all reinforced concrete, so I can not run a vent pipe vertically from the batteries. Does anyone have a rule of thumb for how much the vent pipes can be angled from the batteries? Would it be more lenient for short sections of pipe (say 2') versus one long angled piece from the batteries? My instinct would be to keep the pipe no more than 45? from plumb. Or with bending the vent pipe: does anyone have a best-practice rule for the sum of the angles of bends? Thanks, Jeffrey Quackenbush NABCEP Certified PV Installer Peripatetic Solar Technician --- end of quote --- ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Gross PV production meter options
We are installing a grid interactive, with battery back-up, OutBack Radian GS8048 with 5kW of PV. Vermont has a Solar Adder premium that varies from utility to utility but in this case adds 6 cents per kWh over and above net-metering (basically to come up to a par value of 20 cents/kWh for PV production). We need to install a gross PV production meter between the main (utility) load center panel and the Radian inverter. We need a meter that is not multidirectional, as we only want to count the kWh's that are pushed out into the grid (and not subtract what the Radian uses from utility power to satisfy the protected loads center when the sunlight doesn't handle that). Hialeah Meter offered a GE KV2CE meter that can be programmed to do what we need for $ 260 plus $25 programming fee. The utility will have an option, but I'm wondering what other options others have used for this situation. David Palumbo Independent Power LLC 462 Solar Way Drive Hyde Park, VT 05655 www.independentpowerllc.com NABCEP Certified PV Installer Vermont Solar Partner 23 Years Experience, (802) 888-7194 ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] OB Radian Inverter avilability
We were recently told by OutBack that they would not be making anymore Radian GS8048's until December. We've had one on order thru SunWize since Sept 16th. I'm concerned that I may not receive it until too late to get the installation completed by December 31st as contracted. Does anyone know of availability of one Radian? Contact me off list if so. Thanks, Dave David Palumbo Independent Power LLC 462 Solar Way Drive Hyde Park, VT 05655 www.independentpowerllc.com NABCEP Certified PV Installer Vermont Solar Partner 23 Years Experience, (802) 888-7194 ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] OB Radian Inverter availability
All, We should be good on the Radian now. OutBack straightened me out on the status of my order. It should come in the next week or so. We had mis-communicated as to pending orders vs. new Radian orders. My pending order is good. Looking forward to installing this unit. Have heard good things about it. Dave From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of Dave Palumbo Sent: Thursday, November 03, 2011 7:44 AM To: 'RE-wrenches' Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] OB Radian Inverter avilability We were recently told by OutBack that they would not be making anymore Radian GS8048's until December. We've had one on order thru SunWize since Sept 16th. I'm concerned that I may not receive it until too late to get the installation completed by December 31st as contracted. Does anyone know of availability of one Radian? Contact me off list if so. Thanks, Dave David Palumbo Independent Power LLC 462 Solar Way Drive Hyde Park, VT 05655 www.independentpowerllc.com NABCEP Certified PV Installer Vermont Solar Partner 23 Years Experience, (802) 888-7194 ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] SMA electrical noise?
Wrenches, This is a new one on me. Any ideas of what may be happening? In a follow up she said it happens every day. System was installed two months ago. SB8000US inverter 8.28kW array. Dave We are experiencing electrical noise at dawn and dusk. The power back ups for our computers start beeping, going off and on, and finally causing the computers to shut down. This is probably not good for the computers. Is this something you are aware of in these systems? Can you give us some advice or perhaps come over to check into it? Like I said, at dawn and dusk, just when the sun is changing intensity. David Palumbo Independent Power LLC 462 Solar Way Drive Hyde Park, VT 05655 www.independentpowerllc.com NABCEP Certified PV Installer Vermont Solar Partner 23 Years Experience, (802) 888-7194 ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] [!! SPAM] Re: SMA electrical noise?
Christopher, OCV calculation 37.0v + (37 x .0035 x 56) x 12 = 531 volts Maximum system voltage Schuco MPE 230 PS09 modules 29.81Vmp, 7.69 Imp, 37.0 Voc, 8.43 Isc 3 strings of 12 for 8,280 Watts into SB800US 240v inverter SMA Sunny Design: - nominal power ratio 104% good - String MPP Voltage at 15C 370 V good - String MPP Voltage at 50C 326 V good - String MPP Voltage at 70C 301 VOK conditionally says OK as long as grid voltage is not too high. I have an almost identically designed system (modules are 225W not 230W) in for one year with no problems. Admittedly, grid voltage would be a variable. Note: Hot temperatures have not been an issue here since system was installed. Dusk and dawn, when problem occurs, we've been seeing temps from 25 to 55 degrees F. Dave -Original Message- From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of Christopher Warfel Sent: Friday, October 28, 2011 9:32 AM To: RE-wrenches Subject: [!! SPAM] Re: [RE-wrenches] SMA electrical noise? Check array open circuit voltage calculation? On 10/28/2011 8:46 AM, Dave Palumbo wrote: Wrenches, This is a new one on me. Any ideas of what may be happening? In a follow up she said it happens every day. System was installed two months ago. SB8000US inverter 8.28kW array. Dave We are experiencing electrical noise at dawn and dusk. The power back ups for our computers start beeping, going off and on, and finally causing the computers to shut down. This is probably not good for the computers. Is this something you are aware of in these systems? Can you give us some advice or perhaps come over to check into it? Like I said, at dawn and dusk, just when the sun is changing intensity. David Palumbo Independent Power LLC 462 Solar Way Drive Hyde Park, VT 05655** */www.independentpowerllc.com /* NABCEP Certified PV Installer Vermont Solar Partner 23 Years Experience, (802) 888-7194 ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org -- Christopher Warfel, P.E. ENTECH Engineering, Inc. Energy Utilization Experts (401)466-8978 The information contained within this communication shall be considered confidential and shall not be retransmitted without knowledge of the sender. Please contact us if this email reached you in error. Thank you. ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] intermittent battery problem
I have been following this topic over the past couple of weeks. What Dave Katz said matches up with what I have seen over the years. Although it can be difficult to diagnose battery issues from long distance there has been a fair amount of information that points to sulfation. I think Mr. Katz is right on the money. David Palumbo Independent Power LLC 462 Solar Way Drive Hyde Park, VT 05655 www.independentpowerllc.com NABCEP Certified PV Installer Vermont Solar Partner 23 Years Experience, (802) 888-7194 From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of David Katz Sent: Saturday, October 22, 2011 11:01 AM To: RE-wrenches Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] intermittent battery problem Ron, I don't think it was the water. It was probably the 10 hours they ran the generator that brought them up a bit. If the water is low, the electrolyte is more concentrated and will make the s.g seem higher. Adding water to the proper level will make the reading more accurate. I still think they are pretty sulfated. When they said they reached 29 volts in 5 minutes every morning with a charge of less than 30 amps (an assumption, since they are running a 2500 watt generator), that sounds like a battery with very little capacity. The fact that they stayed at 25.7 all day was probably because of the 800 watt PV array and light loads. It would be interesting to do a real equalization and a capacity test to see what is left of the batteries. David David Katz CTO Founder AEE Solar Inc P: 707 825-1200 F: 707 825-1202 dk...@aeesolar.com www.aeesolar.com From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of Ron Young Sent: Friday, October 21, 2011 11:39 AM To: RE-wrenches Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] intermittent battery problem Hi Maverick everyone, I visited the site a couple of days ago and load tested the batteries, checked individual voltages in the string of six Surrette 4KS25's (4.3v each), checked all connections etc. The client told me that when they would go to bed battery volts read 25.7. Through the night this would seem to stay steady. About 4 a.m. as far as they could tell the voltage would drop to about 24.5. This happened without a load present and with no charging present (calm, no wind, no sun). They would start up the generator for five minutes in the morning and see the voltage come up to just above 29v then turn off the generator (a small Honda 2500) and the voltage would settly at 25.7 and remain there most of the day even when using their light loads, some lights, phone system, laptop and the Sunfrost. When checking the batteries I noticed they needed watering and mentioned this to the customer. The electrolyte was just over the plastic screen above the plates by about 1/4 inch. He said he had just watered them and always kept them filled. I replied that they were low and when he looked he said no, that's where I keep them! When I checked the specific gravity reading it was very rich reading around 1.275 - 1.280. I topped them up properly to about 1/4 inch below the bottom of the cell channel which took about 5 cups per each battery. Of course as soon as I topped them up the s.g. dropped to around 1.175. I told him to put the generator on for about ten hours and call me in the morning. I heard from the client today and in the last two days the voltage has only dropped from 25.6 to 25.4 overnight and s.g. reading is at 1.260 or better so problem seems to be solved. So it appears the battery was under watered for several years. I'm still not sure why this would result in a sudden voltage drop, especially in the middle of the night with no loads present and no charging. Any additional thoughts appreciated. Best Regards, Ron Young earthRight Products - Solareagle.com On 2011-10-21, at 5:18 AM, maver...@mavericksolar.com wrote: Ron, Just curious what the outcome was? Thank you, Maverick Maverick Brown BSEET, NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installer R President CEO Maverick Solar Enterprises, Inc. Office: 512-919-4493 Cell:512-460-9825 Sent from my HondaJet! On 2011-10-11, at 12:11 PM, Maverick Brown [Maverick Solar] wrote: Ron, Sounds like you might have a voltage drop in the system at point of measurement. A large voltage drop can happen for a few valid reasons. 1. High current demand. Trimetric or better yet PentaMetric can show this demand. 2. Poor Cable connection. Visual / Thermal inspection or local Vdc measurement along the cable chain. 3. Low to moderate current demand with low SOC. Check the MX60 Logging function to see when the last day Float happened, i.e. how many minutes of Float in the last 60 days, etc. If there are none or few, then you still might be at a low SOC. (Trimetric or better yet PentaMetric can show the SOC as well). Of
Re: [RE-wrenches] Enphase M190 source?
I'm looking for 18 enphase M-190's for an installation here in Vermont. 72 cell modules 185 Watts. Anybody know of a source? David Palumbo Independent Power LLC 462 Solar Way Drive Hyde Park, VT 05655 www.independentpowerllc.com NABCEP Certified PV Installer Vermont Solar Partner 23 Years Experience, (802) 888-7194 ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Pump
Hi Jeff, Do you see the increased pressure on the pump submerged an extra 180' deep as a non issue? I know with cheaper pumps it is an issue to consider. Here in the soggy northeast static water levels hardly fluctuate at all. Dave From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of Jeff Oldham Sent: Wednesday, August 24, 2011 11:30 AM To: ptalm...@yahoo.com; re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Pump I sure would put the pump near the bottom assuming the pump is rated for the submersion, perhaps 10-20' off the bottom. The only down side is the extra drop pipe and cable and that is pretty small price to add to the overall project and assures the best yield possible over the long system and well life. From the Solar, Wind and Hydro powered office of Jeff Oldham/Regenerative SOLutions http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3132/4e5519198d9b085bee6st01vuc 57-Year-Old Mom Looks 25 Mom Reveals $5 Wrinkle Trick That Has Angered Doctors! http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3132/4e5519198d9b085bee6st01vuc ConsumerLifestyles.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Enphase 215
Do the 215's output more than 215 Watts? From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of Keith Cronin Sent: Wednesday, August 24, 2011 12:21 AM To: RE-Wrenches Subject: [RE-wrenches] Enphase 215 Hey gang With the 215's on the scene and the tech literature on their website, they state you can put up to 17 modules on a string. Locally, I see folks throwing on 17-235 watt modules. Back of the napkin- 235 watts/240 volts = .97 amps. 17 x .97 = 16.49 amps on the 20 amp circuit. Pushing the envelop of the circuit, per NEC and in situations of lower voltage, could tip the current higher, per module it seems or is the unit current limiting? Wouldn't it seem plausible to ebb on 16 vs the 17? The 15 amp circuit to 20 amp circuit also is a change for the industry at large, as well as a few other changes. As Solarworld is rolling out their 250 watt and others in the same zone, it seems there should/could be some caveats on the enphase literature to reflect this. Thoughts, comments? Keith ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] AUO Unison integrated inverter modules
Has anyone gotten their hands on the AUO modules with the built in micro inverter? Cut sheets on mono and poly modules. AC Unison PM240PA0 http://www.sunwize.rsvp1.com/s152b75lGhaB AC Unison PM250MA0 http://www.sunwize.rsvp1.com/s192765lGhaC David Palumbo Independent Power LLC 462 Solar Way Drive Hyde Park, VT 05655 www.independentpowerllc.com NABCEP Certified PV Installer Vermont Solar Partner 23 Years Experience, (802) 888-7194 ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Lithium Ion Phosphate for grid back up
We have a potential client for a net metered PV with battery backup system with a serious interest in using lithium ion storage batteries. I do not know of any systems that have used these batteries yet. From some quick calcs I come up with 105 LiFEYPo4 3.2 volt cells. 7 strings of 15 cells for 700 AH at 48 volts. Price is quoted at $ 125 per cell. Here's a link the client forwarded from his research. http://currentevtech.com/Lithium-Batteries/Thundersky/Thundersky-40ah-cell-p 24.html What are the reasons why these are not being used in home power systems? The web site states 3,000 cycles at 80% DOD vs. 750 cycles for typical gel storage batteries. Also, what are your favorite inverter(s) for grid tied with battery backup? David Palumbo Independent Power LLC 462 Solar Way Drive Hyde Park, VT 05655 www.independentpowerllc.com NABCEP Certified PV Installer Vermont Solar Partner 23 Years Experience, (802) 888-7194 ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Enphase M190 availability?
Do you know of a source for (18) enhase M190's? Thanks, David Palumbo Independent Power LLC 462 Solar Way Drive Hyde Park, VT 05655 www.independentpowerllc.com NABCEP Certified PV Installer Vermont Solar Partner 23 Years Experience, (802) 888-7194 ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Trojan RE Series Tech question
Our go to guy at Trojan, Ron Parades, is evidently gone. That's what they said at his old phone extension at Trojan. I left a message for tech support there and have not heard back as of yet. Is there another Trojan Tech person to specifically ask for now? And is there one on this list helping out as Ron did previously? I have a question on the Trojan RE Series charging voltage settings. I know the specific gravity is lower on this series and the bulk charge voltage is correspondingly lower than the old L-16's. I have an off grid system for a remote home where the client is only there from June through October. He has 1,560 Watts of solar and a new battery bank rated at 2,220 AH at 12 volts (12 L-16 RE-2V batteries). That is a charge rate in the C/20 range. The homeowner uses the system reasonable hard when they are there but during the winter the load is only 15AH per day for a low voltage security system. He has previously serviced his Rolls CH-375's (1,400AH with 450 Watts of PV on that system, about a C/33 rate) in October before leaving for 7 months and has not had a problem with the battery electrolyte boiling off too much over that time period. He got 10 years out of the Rolls batteries using it in this way. The charge voltage for that system was 14.6 through a Solar Boost 50. The new system will have 1,110 Watts charging through a Out Back FM 80 alongside the original array on the Solar Boost for the total of 1,560 Watts of PV. I am thinking of charging at 14.6 Bulk with a two hour absorption time period in the summer and then changing it for the 7 month period when the system is lightly used. My question is, how low should I set the two charge controllers for winter/spring use to minimize water consumption? I'm thinking of 14.2 or 14.3 Volts, with a reduced absorption time of one hour. And what should the float voltage setting be? The batteries are in a basement that is kept at about 55 degrees. There is temperature compensation on the battery charging. Thank you, David Palumbo Independent Power LLC 462 Solar Way Drive Hyde Park, VT 05655 www.independentpowerllc.com NABCEP Certified PV Installer Vermont Solar Partner 23 Years Experience, (802) 888-7194 ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] pole mounts
Todd, We add concrete inside of our steel pipe masts, up to grade level, in the interest of having more weight below ground level. I wouldn’t say that it made the pipe stronger (that better be strong enough as is) but more weight down low will help keep it rooted in a big wind event. Dave From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of toddc...@finestplanet.com Sent: Tuesday, July 26, 2011 2:50 PM To: RE-wrenches Subject: [RE-wrenches] pole mounts Wrenches, Fact or fiction: Adding concrete to the inside of a pole mount pipe makes it stronger. Thanks, Todd Sent from Finest Planet WebMail. ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] enphase D380 reliability
We have a small job with (18) 72 cell modules (3.3kW), the site has some shading issues and we will be using enphase inverters. I am weighing using two branch circuits (one with 10, one with 8) of M190's. Or, using one branch circuit of (9) D380's. D380's will cost less, BUT are being discontinued and the enphase tech guy I spoke with said that they are slightly less reliable than the M190's. What have the wrenches experienced with enphase D380's? Thanks, Dave David Palumbo Independent Power LLC 462 Solar Way Drive Hyde Park, VT 05655 www.independentpowerllc.com NABCEP Certified PV Installer Vermont Solar Partner 23 Years Experience, (802) 888-7194 ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Fed ITC
Can individuals take a Fed ITC on a SHW system installed on a second home property? David Palumbo Independent Power LLC 462 Solar Way Drive Hyde Park, VT 05655 www.independentpowerllc.com NABCEP Certified PV Installer Vermont Solar Partner 23 Years Experience, (802) 888-7194 ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Hydrometer source
We used to buy temperature compensated hydrometers from AEE to include with the sale of a battery bank for off grid customers. My sales person says AEE is no longer carrying that item. I believe they were made by Dekka. Recommendations for a new source for battery hydrometers in the $8 to $ 15 range? David Palumbo Independent Power LLC 462 Solar Way Drive Hyde Park, VT 05655 www.independentpowerllc.com NABCEP Certified PV Installer Vermont Solar Partner 23 Years Experience, (802) 888-7194 ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Trojan tech contact?
Wrenches, Looking for someone to speak with on technical questions on Trojan L-16 RE batteries. David Palumbo Independent Power LLC 462 Solar Way Drive Hyde Park, VT 05655 www.independentpowerllc.com NABCEP Certified PV Installer Vermont Solar Partner 23 Years Experience, (802) 888-7194 ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] York furnace
William, It's been yrs since I dealt with this issue, and it wasn't a York specifically.. But I had an issue with a furnace and an old black Trace mod sine. A capacitor in the feed to the furnace did the trick. Dave From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of William Miller Sent: Thursday, March 03, 2011 7:42 PM To: RE-wrenches Subject: [RE-wrenches] York furnace Friends: Have any of you ever had problems with a York furnace on a modified sine wave inverter? What steps did you take to resolve the issues? Thanks in advance, William Miller Please note new e-mail address and domain: William Miller Miller Solar Voice :805-438-5600 email: will...@millersolar.com http://millersolar.com http://millersolar.com/ License No. C-10-773985 ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Quick Cote troubles
Allan, 5 years in a scenario like that would certainly be a reasonable life expectancy for those cells. Deep discharges followed by inadequate recharging would cause sulfation in a short period of time and with many cycles due to the undersizing. 5 years sounds like fair performance given the situation. Dave From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of Allan Sindelar Sent: Wednesday, February 23, 2011 1:19 PM To: William Miller Cc: RE-wrenches Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Quick Cote troubles I would prefer to use William's method, as it is certainly quicker if indeed it provides long-term protection. Bob-O recommends the same thing. I forwarded all replies to Russ in Taos; his reply follows. Russ is a skilled installer. Thanks for forwarding this discussion to me. The connections were definitely tight, and the Quick Cote wasn't dirty. We originally used Vaseline on the connections five years ago, so there was no old Quick Cote on the jumpers (which we reused), and the contact surfaces were clean (Vaseline does a good job of spooging out of the way when you tighten the bolts down). Curiously, this was a warm battery bank (when we came to remove the old batteries, they were quite warm from charging (insulated battery box)), but the vaseline didn't melt off and expose the cable lugs to corrosion, as I would have expected -- every cable was in perfect condition. BTW, this was a set of Rolls series 5000, large 6 volt batteries, that the customer killed off in 5 years from deep cycling (he'd wait until the system shut down before turning on the generator) and inadequate recharging -- the size of the battery bank was designed before the house was finished, and the customer added a bunch of loads that weren't listed on the load profile (like a 3hp pump, instead of the smaller one anticipated by the homeowner). Andy looked into the warranty, but the folks at Rolls said they've never warranted an entire battery bank that was abused like that. He knew the customer wouldn't get warranty coverage for the whole bank, but he had to at least look into it. Allan Sindelar mailto:al...@positiveenergysolar.com al...@positiveenergysolar.com NABCEP Certified Photovoltaic Installer EE98J Journeyman Electrician Positive Energy, Inc. 3201 Calle Marie Santa Fe, New Mexico 87507 505 424-1112 http://www.positiveenergysolar.com/ www.positiveenergysolar.com On 2/22/2011 11:33 PM, William Miller wrote: Allan: We have had problems if battery terminals are not absolutely clean and dry when mating to connectors. We use a wire brush, usually chucked in a small right-angle grinder. We apply no coating until connections are done and tested. We then apply a spray product we purchase at Napa Auto. It drys eventually to a non-sticky consistency. William Miller Hiya Allan Roy, I do the same thing Roy does. I prefer the connection to be bright tight, then put the gooey on. Seems like you would get a better connection without the gooey between and when the stuff spooges out during tightening, it seems like it might keep the bolt from getting completely tight. Different stroke for different folks, I guess. Hope you both are well. This getting older shit ain't fer sissies! Best, Bob-O On Feb 22, 2011, at 4:46 PM, Allan Sindelar wrote: On 2/22/2011 5:29 PM, Roy Butler wrote: Allan, I used Quick Cote for years until my local supplier had problems getting it in a timely manner. I never had a problem with it but then again, I never put it on the lug/ terminal mating surfaces prior to making the connections. Then I carefully coated the terminals, making sure to not miss any spots. I've had several opportunities to have a look at the mating surfaces years later and never found any corrosion. I would imagine that grit would indeed create a connection problem. But you say you've never seen this yourself? I wonder if the formulation has been changed recently? Roy Butler ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Quick Cote troubles
Years ago on this list we had a good discussion on the subject of battery terminal protection. The favorite at that time (by a geographically diverse group of installers) was to use a light coating of petroleum jelly (Vaseline or generic versions). We continue to use it after 25 years of good results. We use an old toothbrush to apply it. I did try Quick Cote about 12 years ago and was not impressed. David Palumbo Independent Power LLC 462 Solar Way Drive Hyde Park, VT 05655 www.independentpowerllc.com NABCEP Certified PV Installer Vermont Solar Partner 23 Years Experience, (802) 888-7194 From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of Roy Butler Sent: Tuesday, February 22, 2011 7:29 PM To: al...@positiveenergysolar.com; RE-wrenches Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Quick Cote troubles Allan, I used Quick Cote for years until my local supplier had problems getting it in a timely manner. I never had a problem with it but then again, I never put it on the lug/ terminal mating surfaces prior to making the connections. Then I carefully coated the terminals, making sure to not miss any spots. I've had several opportunities to have a look at the mating surfaces years later and never found any corrosion. I would imagine that grit would indeed create a connection problem. But you say you've never seen this yourself? I wonder if the formulation has been changed recently? Roy Butler NABCEP Certified Solar PV InstallerR NYSERDA eligible PV wind installer PA Sunshine Program Approved PV Installer Four Winds Renewable Energy, LLC 8902 Route 46 Arkport, NY 14807 607-324-9747 www.four-winds-energy.com Although no trees were killed in the sending of this message, a large number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced. On 2/22/2011 7:12 PM, Allan Sindelar wrote: Wrenches, Russ in our Taos office sent me the following query. I haven't seen this problem before and told him so, but others among you may know more. What problems if any have you had with Quick-Cote battery terminal coating? What else works really well and lasts the life of the batteries? From Russ: We just had a situation involving Quick Cote on battery terminals that has made us question its use for coating battery terminals and cable lugs. We just installed a bank of HUPs on Monday using Quick Cote. First we lost power with just the Trimetric and MX60 powered up -- using an ohmmeter I found the problem to be a single jumper -- I got 7 megohms across two battery terminals connected by a jumper -- so I replaced the jumper and got the Trimet and MX60 powered up again. Then, when I powered up the OutBack inverters, there were sparks on the battery terminals, and the power cut out again. At that point I guessed that the problem must lie with the Quick Cote, since ours has tiny crystals in it (it feels gritty), and I thought those crystals must be holding the cable lugs off the battery terminals a tiny bit. Sure enough, Mark and I took the cables off, wiped off the Quick Cote from the contact surfaces and applied vaseline, and when we powered up the system, no sparks. (So, the jumper I removed probably wasn't to blame for the first loss of power.) Our container of Quick Cote stayed on the truck (which stays parked outside) during the seriously cold weather we got this winter, so it probably froze. I'm guessing that's when the crystals formed. Nowhere on the Quick Cote label does it say to keep it from freezing though. We're going to go back out to another job to wipe off the Quick Cote from the contact surfaces of the battery terminals and cable lugs, since we just installed four new batteries there and used Quick Cote, and I remember it being gritty at that time as well. Is your Quick Cote gritty? Russ I told Russ that it always has been gritty. When it's dried out in the can (they often leak), I have added an oil-based carrier to thin it - usually WD40, as it's on the truck - and it's always mixed easily. So it's definitely solvent-based and shouldn't be affected by freezing. I haven't had this problem before. I have found terminal bolts too loose and that has caused failures, but never the coating. Thank you, Allan Allan Sindelar mailto:al...@positiveenergysolar.com al...@positiveenergysolar.com NABCEP Certified Photovoltaic Installer EE98J Journeyman Electrician Positive Energy, Inc. 3201 Calle Marie Santa Fe, New Mexico 87507 505 424-1112 www.positiveenergysolar.com http://www.positiveenergysolar.com/ ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios:
Re: [RE-wrenches] Array tilt angle doesn't matter?
Tom, This is coming from old memory, so I give this with a grain of salt, but I believe the noontime sun angle at my latitude (44.5) is about 78 degrees on June 21st and about 22 degrees on December 21st. That’s a difference of 56 degrees. David Palumbo Independent Power LLC 462 Solar Way Drive Hyde Park, VT 05655 www.independentpowerllc.com NABCEP Certified PV Installer Vermont Solar Partner 23 Years Experience, (802) 888-7194 From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of Tom Elliot Sent: Tuesday, February 22, 2011 7:46 PM To: RE-wrenches Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Array tilt angle doesn't matter? “The further north you go the wider the summer to winter sun angle.” Bob-O. Explain this one to me please. The difference between winter solstice and summer solstice sun angle is 47 degrees, everywhere on the planet, even in Hawaii. I suspect that in higher latitudes a lower sun angle means more atmosphere to affect insolation but the planet, last time I checked, is tilted the same everywhere. Tom ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] NABCEP marketing
Larry, It's easy to become frustrated browsing, or studying, anyone's marketing these days. It's OK to squeak once in a while on topics like this (in my opinion). NABCEP has not been discussed too much lately and your comment brought some good discussion to the group. Sounds like you are doing some good things in your business. Many professionals have not passed the test on the first take. David Palumbo Independent Power LLC 462 Solar Way Drive Hyde Park, VT 05655 www.independentpowerllc.com NABCEP Certified PV Installer Vermont Solar Partner 23 Years Experience, (802) 888-7194 From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of wire...@gmail.com Sent: Monday, February 07, 2011 11:54 AM To: RE-wrenches Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] NABCEP is Union Based? That's news to me! I spent about $1500 for prep course, hotel, etc to pass the entry level exam, so I have that. I spent about $2000 for prep, hotel, plane fare for the certification but I failed the test. I am taking it again in March. I'm studying harder this time. I'm 62 and my memory is not what it used to be and was never good at taking tests. When I design I have everything on my desk to refer to so I don't have to rely on my memory. And I just love installing, I've been doing it on boats for 30 years. I'm sorry if you think I'm whining, maybe I'll just stop. I'm just a competitive person and the ad ticked me off. Larry Liesner Wirewiz Westport, CT Phone: 203-644-2404 Fax: 203-557-0556 wire...@gmail.com www.wire-wiz.com On Feb 7, 2011, at 11:16 AM, Bill Hoffer wrote: Larry My PE is not required for the majority of work I do either, but I get a considerable edge over my competition because I have invested the time energy and went through the stress of taking the exam. It is the same way with NABCEP, I have shown that I am willing to take the time, energy and stress to get the qualification. I also appreciate the NABCEP taking the time and effort to promote ME in their ads. After going through the time and effort, it is good to get some tangible payback, and you want to take that away from me, because you do not have the time to take the exam...give me a break! You have the right to run your business and promote it as you see fit and so do I! Does any qualification mean that you know everything, of course not. If any one of us think that, then we should get out of the business. Cause guess what, we are in a rapidly changing landscape where we all are continually learning more and growing as an industry. Otherwise there would not be much use in this blog at all. All an exam really means is that you took the time, energy and stress to prepare for and take the exam, which to me is a sign of professionalism. It is about time our industry grows up! Is NABCEP perfect, of course not, but we all have the opportunity to help to make this organization the best that it can be. I applaud the pioneers who had the vision and that were willing to invest the considerable amount of time, energy and stress to pull it off. If you can do without it , more power to you, but don't whine to me about it being unfair that we want to toot our horn about what we are trying to do for this industry! Bill -- Bill Hoffer PE NABCEP Certified Solar PV InstallerT Sunergy Engineering Services PLLC 2504 Columbia Ave NW East Wenatchee WA 98802-3941 suneng...@gmail.com (509)470-7762 Cell(509)679-6165 ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Federal ITC
Wrenches, I'm looking for confirmation on the expiration dates on the Federal Investment Tax Credit for businesses, as wells as the Individual Tax Credit (or Personal Tax Credit) for individuals. As I understand it the ITC Grant for businesses (money up front) expired at the end of 2010. However it is my understanding that the solar Tax Credit's for both business and individuals will continue through tax year 2016. Is that correct? And will Solar Hot Water continue to be treated the same as PV for the ITC's? Thanks, David Palumbo Independent Power LLC 462 Solar Way Drive Hyde Park, VT 05655 www.independentpowerllc.com NABCEP Certified PV Installer Vermont Solar Partner 23 Years Experience, (802) 888-7194 ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] 24v Battery Charger 80 Amps?
Allan, Great idea. I had offered the option of switching to a two OutBack system but the price was too much. A second SW4024 is less dollars and a great inverter. I will contact you off list. Dave From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of Allan Sindelar Sent: Thursday, December 09, 2010 7:17 PM To: RE-wrenches Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] 24v Battery Charger 80 Amps? Dave, My best suggestion would be a second SW4024 as a charger (and also as a spare inverter). It would be bigger than most chargers, could be programmed much more accurately than a standard charger, and would be familiar to the client. If you need one contact me off list. Allan Allan Sindelar mailto:al...@positiveenergysolar.com al...@positiveenergysolar.com NABCEP Certified Photovoltaic Installer EE98J Journeyman Electrician Positive Energy, Inc. 3201 Calle Marie Santa Fe, New Mexico 87507 505 424-1112 www.positiveenergysolar.com http://www.positiveenergysolar.com/ On 12/9/2010 9:12 AM, Dave Palumbo wrote: Wrenchsters, Any recommendations on a generator fed Battery Charger for a large 24v battery bank (1,800AH). It's an existing off grid system with one Trace SW4024 (has a 120A battery charger). They are getting a larger generator (14kW) to run shop tools and speed up battery charging. I want to balance off the second leg of this new generators output with a battery charger that puts out anywhere from 80 to 100 Amps into the 24v battery bank. I could use two Iota 24 volt 40 Amp chargers for the 80 Amp max total. Other options? Dave Palumbo Independent Power LLC www.independentpowerllc.com NABCEP Certified PV Installer Vermont Solar Partner 802.888.7194 ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Mounting L feet on corrugated metal roof.
John, We have done several of these corrugated steel roofs. We like using 3/8 x 8 Hanger Bolts from UniRac part #310025. These are a long custom lag screw designed to have an L foot fastened on it. Allows you to get the L feet above the plane of the ribs so you can place the hanger bolts where you need them. Dave From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of cvso...@aol.com Sent: Friday, November 26, 2010 8:56 AM To: re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Subject: [RE-wrenches] Mounting L feet on corrugated metal roof. Wrenches, Do you have any tips, stories, methods for mounting L feet on the corrugated metal roof that has short flat spans and ribs. After all these years, I am facing my first install on this kind of roof. We originally were going to install 6 top of pole mounts but he decided the neighbors would not like the appearance so now we are looking at a 20 x 40' metal roof on the garage. The customer asked about flashing the L feet. I'm at a loss to figure out how to do that. John Blittersdorf Central Vermont Solar Wind Rutland, VT 05701 cvso...@aol.com ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Allied Schools - Training 4 Green
Anybody have any experience with Allied Schools - Training 4 Green programs? Online courses, NABCEP approved (so they claim on the web www.training4green.com Thanks, Dave ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Trace Series TR2424 causing blinking lights
Kent, Is this a flickering of the lights when the generator is running and charging the battery bank? Which I have seen. Or, something that is going on all the time? Which I have not experienced. Dave Palumbo Independent Power -Original Message- From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of Kent Osterberg Sent: Friday, November 05, 2010 12:33 PM To: Wrenches Subject: [RE-wrenches] Trace Series TR2424 causing blinking lights Wrenches, I've got a customer that has a dual Xantrex TR2424 inverter system (not my installation) that complains of blinking lights in the house. Anyone have similar issues associated with these inverters? Any solutions? Kent Osterberg Blue Mountain Solar ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] 3.7kW grid tie
AC Point of Connection could be to a backfed 20A DP breaker in the existing GE TM3210CCU load center (100A MB with 100A busbar) if the SMA SB3800 inverter was still available. But a SB4000 requires a 25A breaker which violates the 120% rule with the existing panel. Comments on the options below. #1) Go with another 240v grid tie inverter in the 3800W range, so we can use a 20 Amp breaker. I see PV Powered and Kaco have 3500's listed. Any 3.7, or 3.8kW inverters? #2) Is it possible to either, change out the Main Breaker in the above GE load center to a lower amperage MB, or add a Plug In Breaker. There is a GE feeder type breaker # THQL2190 (90 A DP). Could we use this as the main breaker for the load center above? It is listed as a 10KAIC breaker. #3) Swap out existing 32 space load center and replace with 150AML panel with 100A MB kit. Thanks, Dave Palumbo ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Are Thick Plate Batteries Worth the Price?
All, I've worked with most battery types in 23 years in the trade. There are no easy answers here. We see the unusual T-105 battery bank go 12 years. Conversely we have seen people blow through L-16's in 3 years. I personally have some gigantic (Hoppecke LA's 330lbs each cell) 2v cells in my shop system that are 16 years old and show no signs of decline. They are German made and brought in special to make good on a failed fibered NICAD battery we sold for Hoppecke in the early 90's (that was not a pleasant experience, I would not do it again, even for a free 20 year+ battery bank as a make-up gift). Also, I wouldn't want to actually buy these large 2v cells. If you can trust the life cycle, depth of discharge, charts from the manufacturer and calculate a simple best value for the dollar, than you've done your job. Then it's up to a good system sizing design, good metering and great user care. Our number one rule is fully charge every ten days (at least). If you do this, you avoid sulfation, the number one culprit in early battery demise. For a small system the T-105's typically are the best value. In larger system's there are more choices. A string, or two, of 2v cells can be an excellent choice depending on the price/value ratio. Medium size systems will normally call for Surrette/Rolls 6v, or Trojan L-16 batteries. All for off grid applications. Sealed batteries for battery backup grid tied. Dave Palumbo Independent Power LLC Offices in Lamoille and Champlain Valley, Vermont www.independentpowerllc.com NABCEP Certified PV Installer Vermont Solar Partner 802.888.7194 From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of jay peltz Sent: Friday, October 29, 2010 8:52 PM To: RE-wrenches Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Are Thick Plate Batteries Worth the Price? HI Nick, I gotta ask have you ever seen a battery last 25 years that wasn't in float and had to do some work, or even 15 years? jay peltz power On Oct 29, 2010, at 5:17 PM, Nick Soleil wrote: You generally pay for what you get. The industrial 2V cells generally cost more, but will last a lot longer (up to 25 yrs.) I think it depends on the customer's budget, and the long term plans for the property. Nick Soleil Project Manager Advanced Alternative Energy Solutions, LLC PO Box 657 Petaluma, CA 94953 Cell: 707-321-2937 Office: 707-789-9537 Fax: 707-769-9037 ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Supply side connection to a dedicated panel
We are installing a 8kW grid tied PV system for a commercial client. There is an auto start generator on the premises, therefore we will be utilizing a supply side AC point of connection. Inverter is an SMA SB8000. System owner plans on adding to system in the next few years. We are designing for a total of 24kW of PV. We will install a 200A fused disconnect off the grid feed (line side of the generator transfer switch). My plan is install a dedicated breaker panel for the inverter 240VAC output(s). The SB8000 is rated at 29 Amps, so a 40A DP breaker will do for the point of connection. This panel will eventually have a total of (3) 40A DP breakers each with 8kW of inverter output. My question has to do with the interpretation of the 120 percent rule of the rating of the busbar in the panel. Do I need to use a 225 Amp rated panel with a downsized 150A main breaker? 225A busbar x 1.2 = 270 Amps -150A MB = 120A total of inverter output allowed. Or, since this panel will only be used for inverter AC point of connection, and not for loads, is it allowable to label this panel as a Dedicated Panel - connect no loads. If that is the case we could use a 200A panel, or even a 150Amp panel. A local electrician proposed this dedicated panel to avoid the larger load center panel. I cannot find any mention of dedicated panel in the NEC. I think what I am proposing follows 690.64. Any opinions, or advice would be appreciated. Dave Palumbo Independent Power LLC www.independentpowerllc.com NABCEP Certified PV Installer Vermont Solar Partner 802.888.7194 ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Delta LA's in or out? It's our choice.
Bill, I checked with Delta and they say the LA's are designed to be mounted inside, or, outside the box. On their product sheets that came with the arrestors in years past they clearly showed the LA's inside the load center. In fact that is the way they are still showing them used on their sales web site http://www.deltasurgeprotectors.com/home.cfm Maybe the lawyers want them shown in the box for liability concerns. The tech person I spoke with says they recommend putting them in the box if they are around combustible material such as insulation. Could that also be dry grass around a ground mount? They did say that on LA's manufactured 2009 and later that the jar no longer cracks, they have a VIP plug on the bottom of the jar that pops out when the LA is done. They did say that on big, close by strikes, all bets are off on just the VIP plug popping out. Expect more damage in that case. BTW, great article in Solar Pro on PV array voltage issues. Thanks, Dave From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of Bill Brooks Sent: Thursday, September 02, 2010 12:46 PM To: 'RE-wrenches' Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Delta LA's David, They are supposed to be mounted outside boxes so that you can clearly see when they have been used up. Sand makes glass that expands and breaks the plastic. They used to be porcelain for the very same reason. If you are concerned about unqualified people coming in contact with conductors, put a guard around it. Bill. From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of Dave Palumbo Sent: Wednesday, September 01, 2010 5:32 PM To: 'RE-wrenches' Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Delta LA's I am concerned with Delta LA 600VDC cans being mounted exterior from J-boxes (or disconnect switches) on ground mounts. I remember hearing from an old hand that these devices can fail in a manner that could possibly expose the wiring to human hands. The wires would have high voltage DC potential. Not something we need in our industry. Am I worrying about something that can't happen? Or should these be in PVC boxes? David Palumbo Independent Power LLC Offices in Lamoille and the Champlain Valley, Vermont 802.888.7194 www.independentpowerllc.com NABCEP Certified Solar PV InstallerT Vermont RE Incentive Program Partner From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of North Texas Renewable Energy Inc Sent: Tuesday, August 31, 2010 10:07 PM To: RE-wrenches Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Testing LSAs For the first time since 2004 we got a residential PV red tag for non-listed surge supressors. I just took them off and replaced them after we got the green tag. Of course he also red-tagged the copper ground plate because it was not thick enough. Go figure Jim Duncan North Texas Renewable Energy -Original Message- From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org]on Behalf Of Andrew Truitt Sent: Tuesday, August 31, 2010 8:09 PM To: RE-wrenches Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Testing LSAs Question: Since the Delta lightning arrestors are not UL Listed, do they threaten the UL compliance of the PV system as a whole? - Andrew Truitt Currently of Standard Solar Free agent in the Denver area as of 10/6/10 On Tue, Aug 24, 2010 at 6:02 PM, Peter Parrish peter.parr...@calsolareng.com wrote: I would think that an ohmmeter set to the 10 Mega-ohm setting (or the highest setting possible), would be the first test. I would like to see something on the order of 750 k-ohms (3/4 of a mega-ohm). But the system should be tested at a higher voltage, than that available from a DMM. Apply 240 Vac and measure the RMS current. It should be should be 0.3 mA or less. Finally, these puppies really need to be tested at much higher voltages, perhaps someone knows how to use that megohmmeter to test? What does the manu recommend, if suspect, throw it away and buy a new one? - Peter Peter T. Parrish, Ph.D., President California Solar Engineering, Inc. 820 Cynthia Ave., Los Angeles, CA 90065 CA Lic. 854779, NABCEP Cert. 031806-26 peter.parr...@calsolareng.com Ph 323-258-8883, Mobile 323-839-6108, Fax 323-258-8885 From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of Kristopher Schmid Sent: Tuesday, August 24, 2010 1:30 PM To: 'RE-wrenches' Subject: [RE-wrenches] Testing LSAs What is the best method for testing the integrity of a DC and/or AC lightning surge arrestor? Specifically, i use the Delta LA units. I know they should be replaced if they look Bar-B-Qued, but otherwise...? Thanks, Kris Schmid Legacy Solar 864 Clam Falls Trail Frederic, WI 54837 715-653-4295 sol...@legacysolar.com www.legacysolar.com
Re: [RE-wrenches] Delta LA's
I am concerned with Delta LA 600VDC cans being mounted exterior from J-boxes (or disconnect switches) on ground mounts. I remember hearing from an old hand that these devices can fail in a manner that could possibly expose the wiring to human hands. The wires would have high voltage DC potential. Not something we need in our industry. Am I worrying about something that can't happen? Or should these be in PVC boxes? David Palumbo Independent Power LLC Offices in Lamoille and the Champlain Valley, Vermont 802.888.7194 www.independentpowerllc.com NABCEP Certified Solar PV InstallerT Vermont RE Incentive Program Partner From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of North Texas Renewable Energy Inc Sent: Tuesday, August 31, 2010 10:07 PM To: RE-wrenches Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Testing LSAs For the first time since 2004 we got a residential PV red tag for non-listed surge supressors. I just took them off and replaced them after we got the green tag. Of course he also red-tagged the copper ground plate because it was not thick enough. Go figure Jim Duncan North Texas Renewable Energy -Original Message- From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org]on Behalf Of Andrew Truitt Sent: Tuesday, August 31, 2010 8:09 PM To: RE-wrenches Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Testing LSAs Question: Since the Delta lightning arrestors are not UL Listed, do they threaten the UL compliance of the PV system as a whole? - Andrew Truitt Currently of Standard Solar Free agent in the Denver area as of 10/6/10 On Tue, Aug 24, 2010 at 6:02 PM, Peter Parrish peter.parr...@calsolareng.com wrote: I would think that an ohmmeter set to the 10 Mega-ohm setting (or the highest setting possible), would be the first test. I would like to see something on the order of 750 k-ohms (3/4 of a mega-ohm). But the system should be tested at a higher voltage, than that available from a DMM. Apply 240 Vac and measure the RMS current. It should be should be 0.3 mA or less. Finally, these puppies really need to be tested at much higher voltages, perhaps someone knows how to use that megohmmeter to test? What does the manu recommend, if suspect, throw it away and buy a new one? - Peter Peter T. Parrish, Ph.D., President California Solar Engineering, Inc. 820 Cynthia Ave., Los Angeles, CA 90065 CA Lic. 854779, NABCEP Cert. 031806-26 peter.parr...@calsolareng.com Ph 323-258-8883, Mobile 323-839-6108, Fax 323-258-8885 From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of Kristopher Schmid Sent: Tuesday, August 24, 2010 1:30 PM To: 'RE-wrenches' Subject: [RE-wrenches] Testing LSAs What is the best method for testing the integrity of a DC and/or AC lightning surge arrestor? Specifically, i use the Delta LA units. I know they should be replaced if they look Bar-B-Qued, but otherwise...? Thanks, Kris Schmid Legacy Solar 864 Clam Falls Trail Frederic, WI 54837 715-653-4295 sol...@legacysolar.com www.legacysolar.com ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org -- Don't get me wrong: I love nuclear energy! It's just that I prefer fusion to fission. And it just so happens that there's an enormous fusion reactor safely banked a few million miles from us. It delivers more than we could ever use in just about 8 minutes. And it's wireless! ~William McDonough ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] USE-2 in white?
My application for #8 and #6 is in conduit from the PV array combiner to the DC disconnect/inverter. So, UV protection is not important. Better quality insulation is my concern. We had a couple of spools of #8 THHN/THWN-2 test below the norm with a Fluke insulation tester recently. My local CED distributor did track down the white USE-2 for us. Dave -Original Message- From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of Peter Parrish Sent: Monday, August 02, 2010 2:52 PM To: 'RE-wrenches' Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] USE-2 in white? Then I agree that the lack of carbon black could be a problem for USE-2 wire. Peter T. Parrish, Ph.D., President California Solar Engineering, Inc. 820 Cynthia Ave., Los Angeles, CA 90065 CA Lic. 854779, NABCEP Cert. 031806-26 peter.parr...@calsolareng.com Ph 323-258-8883, Mobile 323-839-6108, Fax 323-258-8885 From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of Allan Sindelar Sent: Monday, August 02, 2010 11:20 AM To: RE-wrenches Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] USE-2 in white? The red is USE-2, RHH and RHW-2, rubber jacket. BiccGeneral (sp?) Durasheath. Allan Sindelar al...@positiveenergysolar.com NABCEP Certified Photovoltaic Installer EE98J Journeyman Electrician Positive Energy, Inc. 3201 Calle Marie Santa Fe, New Mexico 87507 505 424-1112 www.positiveenergysolar.com On 8/2/2010 11:36 AM, Peter Parrish wrote: I think we should be careful in two respects: (1) We have found black with white stripe for #10 USE-2. Since we have not had a use for anything larger than #10, I dont know if black with a white stripe is available for larger gauges. It seems intuitive that black with a white stripe should have superior sunlight resistance than all white. (2) The wire with red insulation might actually be XLP or CPE wire, rated USE-2. The XLP/CLP is a polyethylene-based not a rubber-based compound. One thing I like about the XLP/CPE is that it is slicker than cat shit (and with a smaller OD for same wire gauge), much easier to pull in conduit even for the short distances that we typically have between PV modules and the first j-box. - Peter Peter T. Parrish, Ph.D., President California Solar Engineering, Inc. 820 Cynthia Ave., Los Angeles, CA 90065 CA Lic. 854779, NABCEP Cert. 031806-26 peter.parr...@calsolareng.com Ph 323-258-8883, Mobile 323-839-6108, Fax 323-258-8885 From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of Allan Sindelar Sent: Monday, August 02, 2010 10:20 AM To: RE-wrenches Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] USE-2 in white? It's been years since we ordered it, but we got black, red and white from Anixter, 1-800-538-5431. Our rep Johnny X2832. The white fades in our intense sun, but is still adequately gray/white after 15 years. Allan Sindelar al...@positiveenergysolar.com NABCEP Certified Photovoltaic Installer EE98J Journeyman Electrician Positive Energy, Inc. 3201 Calle Marie Santa Fe, New Mexico 87507 505 424-1112 www.positiveenergysolar.com On 8/2/2010 10:40 AM, Mick Abraham wrote: The sales rep at a wire mfr recently opined that USE-2 colors other than black will not have the same sunlight resistance. I had some red in the field which faded to pink but still looked OK after a few years...but that's only after a few years, and only OK. White in the same installation faded to...white but I still am nervous about using colors after that conversation. The latest batch that I bought is straight black; I believe the black stuff contains carbon black which is the secret sauce for UV resistance. Further input from the List would be appreciated. Jolliness, Mick Abraham, Proprietor www.abrahamsolar.com Voice: 970-731-4675 On Mon, Aug 2, 2010 at 10:32 AM, EcoSolar - Eric Andrews e...@ecosolarnow.com wrote: YES. We get ours from PLATT Electric. Most electric supply houses should have this wire. It is definitely nice for your DC source circuits. Eric R. Andrews NABCEP Certified PV Installer ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check
Re: [RE-wrenches] Interstate UL-16 HC problem
Tom, I have seen many Surrette battery banks of two series strings in parallel last 10 to 12 years. Also have had a few with three string banks go that long. All were well designed systems with homeowners providing good maintenance. Dave From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of The Office of Tom Duffy Sent: Wednesday, June 30, 2010 10:56 PM To: 'RE-wrenches' Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Interstate UL-16 HC problem Jay Higher charge settings, proper absorb times (do the math) and absorb voltage settings, diligent maintenance and twice yearly good EQs, on a single series connected, properly sized string, of quality L16s, will yield at least 10 to 12 years. Maybe not on a Deka, Exide or even Interstate which have thinner plates than Trojan or Surrette. I have seen some 14 year strings in use, though they were pretty well exhausted. Now Im only talking about single series banks. There is no hope for parallel banks without a lot of extra time and work and even then not the life were talking about here. Remember that 8 400 AH L16s in a 48 volt string is a rather small-small cabin, for three days autonomy, so proper sizing is a must for good life. Its really about cycles because the positive plate is finite and at the hoped for end to its life there is really no positive plate left. Most of the batteries out there however will die from sulfation suffocation long before this end. Tom Duffy Systems Design Engineer t...@thesolar.biz 575-539-2111 X 301 Although no trees were killed in the sending of this message, a large number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced. Confidentiality Notice: This message including any attachments is for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and may contain confidential and privileged information. Any unauthorized review, use, disclosure or distribution is prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender and delete any copies of this message. _ From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of jay peltz Sent: Wednesday, June 30, 2010 7:20 PM To: RE-wrenches Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Interstate UL-16 HC problem HI Tom, Are you saying that you are seeing 14 years on a single string of L-16's? If so I would like to hear your charging recommendations. thanks, jay peltz power On Jun 30, 2010, at 9:32 AM, The Office of Tom Duffy wrote: Bob Yes the problem is hard sulfation due to chronically under charging. The absorb time and voltage is the most critical charge mode for charging batteries. The default settings on inverters and charge controllers are always way too short, so they hold the batteries in absorb for a little while, then go to float, leaving the batteries under charged forever, thus we get hard sulfation. This is what you have here. Typically two parallel strings will yield about 6 ½ years of life in a system that is used off grid. While a single series string will yield 10 to 14 years (properly maintained) 14 years is not the rule however. A bit of due diligence is now required to get these back, (and they may not be worth it). Separate the two strings and give them 62 volts for 10 hours; youll have to watch them so they dont get too hot. Set the absorb settings below and give them about three weeks. If there is some improvement in capacity, another EQ; 61 volts for two hours may just do it. With the Magnum 48 volt inverter I calculate the absorb time at 5 hours, now typically the absorb charge should be about 58.8 volts but, most batteries die because of under charge so I would set the absorb voltage at 59.4. You may have to update the software for the Magnum control panel to get more programming flexibility. The MX60 with 6 of the 175s should be set to absorb for as long as possible, I think the last software version allows 4 hours. I calculated absorb time with this setup is 19.6 hours which is not possible, so just keep the controller from going to float for as long as you can. Concord makes a real nice 915 AH 2 volt cell which should give a decade plus life, for the next bank. I would avoid parallel strings at all cost. If you feel this is too large a bank then use the 660 AH 2 volt. You can always call me 575-539-2111 if you have questions. I have been in the battery business almost 45 years. Tom Duffy Systems Design Engineer t...@thesolar.biz 575-539-2111 X 301 Although no trees were killed in the sending of this message, a large number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced. image001.jpg___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive:
Re: [RE-wrenches] Interstate UL-16 HC problem
Bob, Sulfation, I'd say. Try EDTA. Trailhead Supply. See Home Power marketplace ad for contact info. If it's not sulfation then maybe it's simply diluted electrolyte(accidental, or intentional) which would make the batteries have lower performance AH wise but should last a long time (plates hold up better in a less acidic solution). Years ago I received some Hoppecke lead acid batteries direct from Germany to make good on a bad batch of NiCADS. The Hoppecke LA's intentionally have a max SG of 1.240. Very big cells (330lbs for a 2v cell) and evidently have a very long life, as I am using them still in my barn/shop 16 years later and they act like new despite a pathetically low charge rate. These cells are rated at 2,000 AH @ 100h rate. I am charging them with 35 amps of PV with the occasional 75 amp charge when the gen is on. I have never heard much good said concerning Interstate deep cycle batteries. Dave From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of bob Sent: Tuesday, June 29, 2010 6:53 AM To: 'RE-wrenches' Subject: [RE-wrenches] Interstate UL-16 HC problem I have 2 systems that I am trying to correct that another local dealer has installed. This one is 2 strings of (8) UL-16 HC Interstate Batteries, 16 batteries total. We cannot get the batteries to charge over 1.225 despite discharging them and generator charging them till everything shut down. This is a 48 volt system with a Magnum 4448 inverter. He also has (6) 175 watt Solar World panels on a manual tracker. (spends all day tracking the sun) He is adding 2 more this summer. The controller is an MX-60. I have moved the Magnums settings to 1600 AH battery bank size to allow for the inverter to have a longer absorb time to help it finish charging and get to a full battery. It's not working; we have 1 cell at 1.240 and the rest at 1.225. These have not been cycled hard if at all, I am going to suggest that he cycle them several more times to see if anything improves after that The other system has the same problem with a different inverter! So it's not inverter related, but I am at a loss. I have not used Interstates before and want to stay away from them in the future. Any other suggestions? Thanks, Bob Ellison ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Ground mount wire shielding
Andy, Contact me off list and I'll send a photo of what we do. This is something I came up with to comply with Article 690.31. No guarantee your AHJ will like it. I shared this on list last year, nothing really new. We don't drill into module frames, but use the aluminum mounting rack to fasten plastic lattice (white in color, available from Lowe's) cut to sizes needed. Inspectors I have showed this to here in Vermont like it. Dave From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of Andy Tyson Sent: Tuesday, June 29, 2010 5:12 PM To: re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Subject: [RE-wrenches] Ground mount wire shielding Hi, I'm Looking for products or techniques that have been used as a raceway for wire protection on the back of a ground mount array. The local AHJ is not accepting a fence. We are required to cover or shield our USE module wiring below 8'. Side question: if we directly attach (self tappers) a raceway to the module frame, does that void the module warranty? The modules do not have J-boxes. Thanks, Andy Tyson Creative Energies ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Flashed Footing Requirements
For comp shingle jobs there is now a good economical choice. Actually two choices from one manufacturer EcoFasten www.ecofastensolar.com They make Quickfoot and also GreenFasten. Good quality products, good price points. They are also sold under other names by distributors such as DPW which calls them PV Flash and Eco Flash. From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of Peter Parrish Sent: Thursday, June 24, 2010 12:19 PM To: 'RE-wrenches' Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Flashed Footing Requirements IMHO the TileTrack system for flat concrete tile or S-tile is the best approach there is. The 3/8 SS all thread can be accommodated by a ~3/8 hole in the tile, leaving an exceedingly narrow gap around the all-thread to caulk. By way of distinction, I never use tile track on comp-shingle or torchdown roofs, using instead Fast-Jacks and Oatey elastomeric flashing. - Peter Peter T. Parrish, Ph.D., President California Solar Engineering, Inc. 820 Cynthia Ave., Los Angeles, CA 90065 CA Lic. 854779, NABCEP Cert. 031806-26 peter.parr...@calsolareng.com Ph 323-258-8883, Mobile 323-839-6108, Fax 323-258-8885 _ From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of Nick Soleil Sent: Wednesday, June 23, 2010 5:10 PM To: RE-wrenches Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Flashed Footing Requirements Who can help: One of our local jurisdictions, City of Petaluma, is beginning to require flashed footings under all solar arrays. I think that some flashed footings are better than the Unirac L feet or Prosolar's TileTrac foot, but the flashed footings cost a lot more $, and some flashed footing products seem flawed (less watertight) They are asking me to uninstall two commissioned systems from last week, and replace the footings with flashed Fast Jacks, even though the documents detailed the penetration method. I am looking for some good info that supports flexible installation methods, including caulked footings. Our industry has come a long way from the early days of racking on slotted angle iron with steel L-brackets for feet, but those experiences tend to give me confidence in continuing to use caulked footings. Nick Soleil Project Manager Advanced Alternative Energy Solutions, LLC PO Box 657 Petaluma, CA 94953 Cell: 707-321-2937 Office: 707-789-9537 Fax: 707-769-9037 ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] PV Module Favorite (was Whats with Kyocera)
Joel, Schuco - Good German quality, wide range of modules, good energy output tolerance, good availability, good pricing. Company appears to be solid, which is important to me. I'm presently designing several systems around the Schuco MPE 180 MS05 Black Line modules, -0%/+5% tolerance, 36Vmp which I like, and this module can be handled by one installer (31.8 62.2 33 lbs), 5 yr full product warranty and 25 year power warranty. We also use the Schuco MPE 225's. Systems needing greater power density get the Sanyo 215N's same physical size as above and are rated at 35 more Watts. Sanyo's cost me a $1.00 per Watt more. Sanyo's have a 20 year warranty which is behind the times for a top quality module. Dave From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of Joel Davidson Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2010 11:09 AM To: RE-wrenches Subject: [RE-wrenches] PV Module Favorite (was Whats with Kyocera) Wrenches, I'd like to turn this discussion 180 degrees. I'm not manufacturing PV modules (at the moment), but I'd like to know what is your favorite PV module brand and model? What features and benefits are important? What do you like about the manufacturer itself (not its warehouse distributors)? Are price, power, and availability over 90 percent of the equation? What else really matters? Thanks in advance for your comments. Joel Davidson - Original Message - From: Bill Loesch mailto:solar1onl...@charter.net To: RE-wrenches mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2010 4:10 AM Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Whats with Kyocera Ray, In addition to _your_ Rouges Big Three of Kyrocera BP Photowatt let me add _my_ recently discovered Rouges Big Three of Q-Cells Sharp Abound Solar which are being sold direct from the manufacturer to the end user. Seems like many manufacturers have lapses of conscience, some continuously others intermittently. Thank you, Bill Loesch Solar 1 - Saint Louis Solar I would hope that other _distributors_ like AEE and manufacturers, like Evergreen, continue to pass on their leads as long as the established distribution channels remain in place. - Original Message - From: R Ray Walters mailto:r...@solarray.com To: RE-wrenches mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Sent: Tuesday, May 18, 2010 6:47 PM Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Whats with Kyocera Interesting, because we quit working with all three Manufacturers mentioned for the following reasons: Kyocera had that 1999 bad batch that is still giving them a bad name in the back woods here. So glad I never sold those. BP bought Solarex, and starting making crappy polycrystalline stuff, (and had their own bad batches) we got tired of making excuses for under performance. FInally, Photowatt in Albuquerque was selling to end users very small quantities at our wholesale price. We didn't need the competition from a supplier. Again they had some bad batches too. These three companies have a long track record of bad service, bad products, and poor performance. With so many top quality modules available: Sunpower, SolarWorld, Sanyo. Why would any of you mess around selling for a company that doesn't take care of you? Just my opinion: you're only going to install so many systems this lifetime, so don't put your name and reputation out on 2nd rate stuff. R. Walters r...@solarray.com Solar Engineer On May 18, 2010, at 2:56 PM, Joel Davidson wrote: In 2002, Kyocera cut off American distributors shortly after hosting their distributor visit to Japan. Kyocera started shipping everything they could to Germany where they were getting over $1/W more than in the US. BP Solar also cut off American distributors. Remember BP distributor Mark Weidhaas in Temecula? Photowatt also cut off American distributors. Remember Bernard Stuart in Albuquerque? I'm sure wrenches can think of other foreign manufacturers that left us high and dry. PV manufacturing is nowhere near maxed out. PV industry manufacturing capacity utilization is now around 60%. See slide 2 http://www.luthcommunications.com/uploads/Paula_Mints_presentation.pdf _ From: Keith Cronin electrich...@yahoo.com To: RE-wrenches re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Sent: Tue, May 18, 2010 10:59:04 AM Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Whats with Kyocera I've heard alot of manu's are struggling or will be struggling to meet demand this year- SunPower, Canadian and now it seems Kyocera. Who is next? Seems like 2006 all over again. _ From: Steven Lawrence slawre...@smartenergygroup.net To: re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Sent: Tue, May 18, 2010 7:51:51 AM Subject: [RE-wrenches] Whats with Kyocera It's the same thing here. They aren't taking any large orders from us. Steven Lawrence NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installer(tm)
Re: [RE-wrenches] overfeed 7kW gridtie inverter or drop a mod per string?
Jim, You have probably seen this already but it’s worth a mention here. Good article in SolarPro magazine April/May “Optimal PV-to-Inverter Sizing Ratio”. Dave From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of Jim MacDonald Sent: Monday, April 19, 2010 7:43 PM To: RE-wrenches Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] overfeed 7kW gridtie inverter or drop a mod per string? Im sorry, I meant to write “11 modules per string” below.. Been a long day.. From: Jim MacDonald Sent: Monday, April 19, 2010 7:41 PM To: RE-wrenches Cc: Jason Szrom Subject: RE: [RE-wrenches] overfeed 7kW gridtie inverter or drop a mod per string? SB8000US only good for 480 Vac, we’re tying in at 208. 11 strings [11 modules per string] has been calc’d to be OK (600vdc) for record low -4 fahrenheit (-20 celsius). I think the big concern as mentioned is getting the Voc high early in the AM to wake the inverter up, also maintaining the Vmp later in the day to keep it running for as long as possible into the late afternoon/ evening. Will those extra kWh gleaned in the early AM/ late PM over the course of 365 days be more than the kWh clipped during peak production times with the 9.075 kWdc? NYC average summer highs between 79 and 84 fahrenheit early june-late august. Sunlink rack @ 10° on a silver-painted built-up roof. Time-of-use utility $ peak-shaving is not an issue here. Thank you ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Lorentz Sub Pump
Wrenchers, Looking for advice on the following pump. Lorentz PS600-HR04H-1-48B with power pack option and controller. I will be doing an off-grid system for a homeowner who already who had purchased this pump, in fact it is down the well already, although not working, or even wired to anything yet. The dealer who sold her this pump is no longer working this job. That dealer did not install anything else. So, we have a clean slate except for this pump. Homeowner is willing to go with another pump if I'm not satisfied of this pumps quality, suitability for her home and reliability. I have never used a Lorentz pump before. I do recall some mixed reviews over the years on this list on Lorentz pumps. Typically for a home like this (modest water needs) I would install a Grundfos SQ AC pump with a standard pressure tank and run it off the inverter. We could do a 48 volt battery bank for this home, so we could do the Lorentz pump. This pump is designed to be powered with 48VDC nominal correct? Is it a reliable pump? Or will it be more trouble than the AC Grundfos? Thanks, Dave David Palumbo, NABCEP Certified PV Installer Independent Power LLC Offices in Lamoille and the Champlain Valley 802.888.7194 www.independentpowerllc.com ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
