Re: [RE-wrenches] SolArk and Tigo compatibility
Hello All, The utilization of the onboard 12v DC power supply is dependent on the Rapid Shutdown Device that you are using, whether Tigo/APSystems/Midnite. Tigo has many different solutions in their TS4 series of products. The devices that utilize the RSS Transmitter only, TS4-A-F and TS4-A-2F receivers, will be able to utilize the onboard 12v power supply to power the RSS Transmitter. It is possible to power the RSS Transmitter separately from the inverter if it makes the most sense for the project. However, if you are using any of the other TS4 series (TS4-A-O, TS4-A-M and TS4-A-S) these require the use of the CCA (Cloud Connect Advance) and the TAP (Tigo Access Point) kit provided by Tigo to provide the PTO (permission to operate) signal to the receivers. Both the CCA and TAP kit must be powered separately from the included 12vDC power supply in the Sol-Ark as this exceeds the power supply. We recommend that these items be powered by a 120vAC circuit connected to the "Load" breaker of the Sol-Ark so that the CCA and TAP kit are powered during a grid outage. Thank you and have a blessed day, Dustin Douglas On Wed, 16 Nov 2022 16:37:57 -0600 Chris Sparadeo wrote --- @DustinDouglas do you mind confirming if the Tigo RSS Transmitter is compatible with the 12vdc power supply from Sol-Ark, and if not…what should we be doing to supply power without having to rely on 120VAC output of the inverter? Thanks, -Chris On Wed, Nov 16, 2022 at 4:22 PM Christopher Warfel via RE-wrenches <mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: Hi Nick and List, that was my problem exactly. Chris On 11/16/2022 12:38 PM, Nick A Lucchese via RE-wrenches wrote: All, I believe what Chris is referring to is something I was initially confused on during a Solark install I was involved with last year. Uncertain if the manual has changed but in the Solark 12k manual dated April 2, 2021 on page 23 it has a line saying- Note: Tigo Optimizers are compatible with the Sol-Ark 12k (Do not use the built in 12v Power supply in the Sol-Ark user area to power the Tigo Optimizer TX transmitter) I too had to confirm with Sol-Ark to clarify these details. I’ve not looked at any of their newer manuals to see if some of these notes have changed. Enjoy your day, Nick On Nov 16, 2022, at 8:41 AM, Chris Sparadeo via RE-wrenches <mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: Hi Chris, I echo Ronald’s experience. I wasn’t aware of any memo from Sol Ark suggesting pins 15 and 16 should not be used for the Tigo RSS Transmitter. The 12K and 15K manuals both refrence a 12vdc RSS transmitter to achieve rapid shut down. Best, Chris On Wed, Nov 16, 2022 at 11:21 AM Roland - RES via RE-wrenches <mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: Aloha Chris, We have numerous Sol-Ark systems with Tigo TS4Fs where we have the transmitter wired to the 12v supply of the inverter, with no issues to date. Sent from a IPhone, with touch screen keys on the fly. Please excuse shortcuts and typos. Roland Shackelford NABCEP CERTIFIED PV INSTALLER President Renewable Energy Services (RES), Inc. Mobile: http://808-938-9239/ http://www.renewablenergy.com/ On Nov 16, 2022, at 4:33 AM, Christopher Warfel via RE-wrenches <mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: Hi, We are doing our first system with these two devices. The inverter is SolArk 12P (mutimode) and the Tigo product for RS is the TS4F. Tigo has me a little bit walking in circles. I told them that SolArk says not to use the 12VDC RS output terminals for connecting the transmitter. I gave them the attached drawing which they ask for, which shows the transmitter connected to a 120VAC/12VDC breaker which they supply. They told me to wire the 120VAC source to the main service panel so the array would shut down on loss of power. I told them that is
Re: [RE-wrenches] Sol ark 120v issues
Wrenches, You can have 4800W on L1 and 0W on L2. It has huge 240V peak power. But you are correct that some 120V inductive loads >3/4hp can be an issue. We recommend rewiring those massive motors to 240V (most are convertible on the motor). The 1400W limit is with DC Loads. A heat gun on high is an AC load but on low, it only uses 1/2 of the sinewave (DC load). Our limit for DC loads (hair dryer, leaf blower, drill, blender, curling iron, heat gun only on low setting) is 1400W. Thank you and have a blessed day, Dustin Douglas Engineering Support Lead (972)575-8875 ext. 108 http://www.Sol-Ark.com On Tue, 09 Feb 2021 23:23:22 -0600 Nick A Lucchese wrote I agree with many of you on waiting awhile longer until these issues are sorted out. While I definitely think there is plenty of room beyond our usual favorites for another robust battery based inverter to offer I don’t intend to embark on another frustrating adventure at mostly my expense. At this point I’m more excited for the Midnite inverters more than anything and know once they’re released I won’t feel like I made a mistake. Meanwhile I’ll definitely be sending wishes of success to Sol-Ark. I’ve heard a lot of good things and will remain optimistic and hopeful it’s shortcomings will be resolved soon without needing to stack multiple units or a transformer. Nick A Lucchese On Feb 9, 2021, at 12:17 PM, Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar <mailto:offgridso...@sti.net> wrote: Yes that has happened with 2 of mine Jerry. I like the Transformer Devils that I know. Might check these out in 2 or 3 years. The whole all in one does not really appeal to me either but I will keep an open mind, in 2 or 3 years! Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar "we go where powerlines don't" http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/ e-mail mailto:offgridso...@sti.net text 209 813 0060 On Tue, 9 Feb 2021 10:19:44 -0800, Jerry Shafer <mailto:jerrysgarag...@gmail.com> wrote: It is also interesting how sol ark sells over the counter to end users and also through distributors but at nearly the same price so it makes it difficult for our distributors to carry the sol ark products. Jerry On Tue, Feb 9, 2021, 7:42 AM Jay <mailto:jay.pe...@gmail.com> wrote: It is odd that the 12kw 20kw surge sol ark can't run a 15 amp 120v air compressor I saw a you tube video from what appears to be a pretty well versed installer who mentioned that sol ark knows this is an issue and specifically mentioned that his small air compressor will shut his 12kw inverter down. He didn't mention if there is a fix coming. I guess I'll wait to buy one until they have that issue sorted out. Jay Peltz power. ___ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance List Address: mailto:RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/ http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: http://www.members.re-wrenches.org/ ___ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance List Address: mailto:RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/ http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: http://www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/ http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: http://www.members.re-wrenches.org___ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: https://www.mail-archive.com/re-w
Re: [RE-wrenches] Load imbalance issues with SolArk?
Hi Nick, The 1400w difference is in terms of a DC load on an AC output, which is common when using variable speed appliances that use internal diodes that modify the sine wave. This does not apply to true AC loads where the Sol-Ark can do 4800w continuous at 120V. Dustin Douglas Engineering Support Lead (972)575-8875 ext. 108 http://www.Sol-Ark.com On Wed, 03 Feb 2021 15:21:33 -0600 Amos Post wrote Thanks Larry, This would be a 240V to 120V step down configuration correct? So the sub panel would be 120V only? Best, Amos Amos Post Integrity Energy W 802.763.7023 C 802.291.2188 http://www.ienergyvt.com https://www.facebook.com/integrityenergyllp?ref=hl On Feb 3, 2021, at 4:10 PM, mailto:la...@starlightsolar.com wrote: Amos, When using it in balancing mode, as seen in the attached image, the PSX will provide 120Vac from either leg and the inverter output should stay balanced. A 240Vac circuit from the main panel goes to the PSX then to a sub panel and any 240Vac loads stay on the main panel. Larry Crutcher Starlight Solar Power Systems On Feb 3, 2021, at 1:49 PM, Amos Post <mailto:integrityenergy...@gmail.com> wrote: We have had this issue with a recent installation. It’s a new off-grid house build, and so not many loads to speak of yet, except mainly power tools. The Solark 12K will not start any of: portable air compressor, table saw, and sometimes struggles with a miter saw, which are each 16amps or less at 120V, but I have measured close to 50amps start up for the air compressor and table saw. The air compressor and table saw are 1.5HP each. What helps is if the motors are warmed up, or putting another load on the other leg to balance the inverter’s output. Was thinking we would install a couple of dedicated 120V outlets for “high-current” 120V loads with a PSX-240, stepping down the inverter's 240 to 120. My understanding is this will solve the issue for starting these loads, but not sure if we might run into issues with inbalance down the road... Would be curious to know if there’s another way to balance all of the house loads using the PSX-240?.. Amos Post Integrity Energy W 802.763.7023 C 802.291.2188 http://www.ienergyvt.com/ https://www.facebook.com/integrityenergyllp?ref=hl On Feb 3, 2021, at 2:41 PM, mailto:la...@starlightsolar.com wrote: If it turns out to be true, could you simply add the Outback PSX-240 to balance the loads? Larry Crutcher Starlight Solar Power Systems On Feb 3, 2021, at 10:52 AM, Nick A Lucchese <mailto:luccheseso...@me.com> wrote: Good morning Wrenches, I’ve strongly been considering using the SolArk 12K unit for awhile but have heard from a few folks that there can be somewhat frequent issues with the inverter shutting down from line to line imbalance. As little as 1400 watts? I could see where these instances would be minimized with attention to detail on balancing all the loads but if’s as little as a delta of 1400 watts that might occur with something as innocent as a toaster oven. Seems like it would also be less of an issue in a grid back up or AC coupled scenario but for off grid I’d be bummed to be getting calls every couple weeks from an off grid client that trusted me to offer the right equipment. How much of an issue is this? Is it getting exaggerated? Those that have NOT had this happening was it on a full time off grid site? Has it happened less on sites using the "Limited to Home” mode? I have an upcoming project that was going to be setup with a couple Radians in HBX mode and my thought was perhaps it might be an ideal solution there but if the continuity of electrical service was going to be provided mainly through batteries and inverting and not through the pass through relays the majority of the time then the site might likely experience this issue with imbalance shutdowns. There are many attractive features of the SolArk and I really like the thought of taking advantage of the 185 amp DC charger versus the Radian’s 115 but I’m kind of thinking the risks may outweigh the benefits if these shutdowns occur even once every couple of months. Any of you have a long enough history with them to chime in with your observations? Are they most reliable for AC coupled with backup rather than off grid or the “Limited to Home” mode? Thanks for your time, Nick A Lucchese ___ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance List Address: mailto:RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/ http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: h
Re: [RE-wrenches] Sol-Ark Gen Exercise Cycle
It is the same hardware as the dongle we provide with the unit and plugs directly into the Sol Ark Wi-fi port just like it would in a normal project, however the difference is that we customized the software to auto-update the inverter without the need for internet. This dongle is only compatible the Sol-Ark unit. We are currently sending them with the most up to date software for the units, but will be able to modify the software on the dongle so that it can be used for different versions of the Sol-Ark. The cost of the hardware is $100. We are wanting to add different options especially for those that are truly off grid. Thank you and have a blessed day, Dustin Douglas Sol Ark Engineering Support (972) 575-8875 x 108 http://www.sol-ark.com/ On Fri, 13 Nov 2020 10:05:37 -0600 jay wrote HI Dustin, Can you elaborate on the custom dongle for the non internet people. As its custom it sounds like its not a standard USB or SD or MSD? How much does it cost and can it be updated from a computer and then taken to the job site? Many if not most of my clients have no to limited internet and many that do, don’t want internet connection for their equipment. thanks Jay Peltz Power On Nov 13, 2020, at 8:57 AM, Dustin Douglas <mailto:dus...@sol-ark.com> wrote: The Time of Use feature can support this request. I do understand that programming can be somewhat confusing in completely covering what you are wanting the generator can do. However, if you are wanting the generator to turn on only when the batteries are low and getting through the night then we can set the Time of Use to only turn on with specific hours and also charge up to specific SOC. We implemented this setting so that there is the ability to control how much fuel is used and not run the gen for long periods of time. The Time of Use settings are very customizable, if you would like to give our support team a call and we can help customize it to best fit your scenario. As for updating the system itself, we offer different avenues of doing so. The first is the Wi-fi dongle that is connected to the inverter and to the customers home network. We also offer different aftermarket versions for customers with specific needs or if they don't have internet altogether. There is a ethernet version for those that don't want the over the air (OTA) connection to there wireless network or possibly if there router itself is a little to far away from where the unit is located. Simply running a ethernet cable to this specific dongle will connect them for monitoring and also allow for updates. The final version is for those true off grid installs where they are not worried about monitoring but do need to get the system updated. We have developed a custom design dongle that once inserted into the unit will perform the update on the inverter locally. Plug it in and wait for the final part of the software to finish and now your system will have the current version of software. You can then remove it and adjust the settings for the new features that were added. Thank you and have a blessed day, Dustin Douglas Sol Ark Engineering Support (972) 575-8875 x 108 http://www.sol-ark.com/ On Fri, 13 Nov 2020 08:46:31 -0600 Jay <mailto:jay.pe...@gmail.com> wrote I’m wondering how the firmware is updated? USB or other? I’ve looked on the website but I couldn’t find any instructions. Thx Jay On Nov 12, 2020, at 7:58 PM, Jeff Clearwater <mailto:je...@villagepowerdesign.com> wrote: Thanks Dustin for keeping us up to date on Sol-Arks feature progress. While you are upgrading your firmware: :) So an essential feature for off-grid with a generator is to be able to program various SOC levels for generator start AND shuf-off after charge. 90% is way too high for many sunny climes and other configurations. Often batteries need a boost in the wee morning hours - when they drop below the preferred recharge point but that's only perhaps a few hours before the sun comes up - So say you want to start a gen to charge a Lead-acid battery at 50% or an LFP batter at 20% SOC but you only want to bring it through to the next often or possibly sunny morning. So you set it to run from 50% to 65% (or from 20%-40% for LFP) - knowing that the morning sun will take it the rest of the way. 90% would waste a ton of fuel in this scenario not too mention unwanted noise and wear and tear on the genny. Depending on the clients use profile, the climate, and relative size of the array and battery and gen, these figures could vary anywhere from 20% to 100%. So it's essential us off-grid installers have that flexibility. Also I know that your TOU settings might cover this (though not in all modes I believe) but another nice feature is to have 2 or 3 time periods with different start and stop settings (Sunny Island does
Re: [RE-wrenches] Sol-Ark Gen Exercise Cycle
The Time of Use feature can support this request. I do understand that programming can be somewhat confusing in completely covering what you are wanting the generator can do. However, if you are wanting the generator to turn on only when the batteries are low and getting through the night then we can set the Time of Use to only turn on with specific hours and also charge up to specific SOC. We implemented this setting so that there is the ability to control how much fuel is used and not run the gen for long periods of time. The Time of Use settings are very customizable, if you would like to give our support team a call and we can help customize it to best fit your scenario. As for updating the system itself, we offer different avenues of doing so. The first is the Wi-fi dongle that is connected to the inverter and to the customers home network. We also offer different aftermarket versions for customers with specific needs or if they don't have internet altogether. There is a ethernet version for those that don't want the over the air (OTA) connection to there wireless network or possibly if there router itself is a little to far away from where the unit is located. Simply running a ethernet cable to this specific dongle will connect them for monitoring and also allow for updates. The final version is for those true off grid installs where they are not worried about monitoring but do need to get the system updated. We have developed a custom design dongle that once inserted into the unit will perform the update on the inverter locally. Plug it in and wait for the final part of the software to finish and now your system will have the current version of software. You can then remove it and adjust the settings for the new features that were added. Thank you and have a blessed day, Dustin Douglas Sol Ark Engineering Support (972) 575-8875 x 108 http://www.sol-ark.com/ On Fri, 13 Nov 2020 08:46:31 -0600 Jay wrote I’m wondering how the firmware is updated? USB or other? I’ve looked on the website but I couldn’t find any instructions. Thx Jay On Nov 12, 2020, at 7:58 PM, Jeff Clearwater <mailto:je...@villagepowerdesign.com> wrote: Thanks Dustin for keeping us up to date on Sol-Arks feature progress. While you are upgrading your firmware: :) So an essential feature for off-grid with a generator is to be able to program various SOC levels for generator start AND shuf-off after charge. 90% is way too high for many sunny climes and other configurations. Often batteries need a boost in the wee morning hours - when they drop below the preferred recharge point but that's only perhaps a few hours before the sun comes up - So say you want to start a gen to charge a Lead-acid battery at 50% or an LFP batter at 20% SOC but you only want to bring it through to the next often or possibly sunny morning. So you set it to run from 50% to 65% (or from 20%-40% for LFP) - knowing that the morning sun will take it the rest of the way. 90% would waste a ton of fuel in this scenario not too mention unwanted noise and wear and tear on the genny. Depending on the clients use profile, the climate, and relative size of the array and battery and gen, these figures could vary anywhere from 20% to 100%. So it's essential us off-grid installers have that flexibility. Also I know that your TOU settings might cover this (though not in all modes I believe) but another nice feature is to have 2 or 3 time periods with different start and stop settings (Sunny Island does this nicely). So if the minimum SOC is reached in the evening you might as well bring it up to a higher SOC for gen shut down as it needs to get through the entire night whereas if that minimum SOC start trigger is met after 3 AM it needs to only bring it to a lower SOC as described above. I'm loving the Sol-Ark product so far but it is obvious the software is a work in progress - the architecture and thought behind it is an excellent foundation - thanks for your work and openness for input to make it even better. Best, Jeff ~~~ Jeff Clearwater Village Power Design https://www.linkedin.com/in/jeff-clearwater-0622a312/ http://www.villagepowerdesign.com cell - 413-559-9763 ~~~ mailto:dus...@sol-ark.com November 12, 2020 at 11:46 AM Hi All, First and foremost thank you for sharing your experiences the the Sol-Ark system. We try very hard to have different capabilities and add new features that make it flexible for the customer. The two-wire start is a feature however that we want to be seamless. In the instance where the customer is seeing the system shutdown once the generator shuts off has been addressed and fixed with a software update. With this update we are able to handle larger generators that tend to drift from 60hz. Please give our support team a call so that we can
Re: [RE-wrenches] Sol-Ark Gen Exercise Cycle
Hi All, First and foremost thank you for sharing your experiences the the Sol-Ark system. We try very hard to have different capabilities and add new features that make it flexible for the customer. The two-wire start is a feature however that we want to be seamless. In the instance where the customer is seeing the system shutdown once the generator shuts off has been addressed and fixed with a software update. With this update we are able to handle larger generators that tend to drift from 60hz. Please give our support team a call so that we can update the customer accordingly. We are also looking at adding more features including the ability exercise the generator in the near feature. Thank you and have a blessed day, Dustin Douglas Sol Ark Engineering Support (972) 575-8875 x 108 http://www.sol-ark.com/ On Thu, 12 Nov 2020 08:08:51 -0600 Jay wrote Hi Bill In the past I’ve had similar issues with generators/inverters. Usually a relay on the output power wires that opens( disconnects) when the stop signal is sent works as the frequency doesn’t slowly go down, it drops to 0 instantly. I don’t know if it will fix your issue. Seems like solark needs to greatly improve their firmware. Jay Peltz power. On Nov 11, 2020, at 8:03 PM, Bill Hennessy <mailto:b...@berkssolar.com> wrote: Hi folks--We've also been disappointed with the Sol-Ark two-wire generator start. The unit starts at the charge set point, but the inverter will shut down for about a minute every time the generator stops running. After the minute wait, the inverter restarts and everything is fine. But it is aggravating for the homeowners to be left wondering in the dark. Sol-Ark says that when the generator shuts off, the frequency drops out of the Sol-Ark range and causes the inverter shut down. They suggested we find a way to increase the generator speed to avoid the frequency drop at shutdown. This seems like a lame suggestion, since the generator has no idea of when the batteries will be satisfied--it only responds to the on/off signal from the Sol-Ark. I would think that the unit could be programmed to ignore the frequency drop when it sends the shut off signal to the generator. The system has an an Ecogen 15kW. Not having an exercise function is also a miss. As mentioned below, the time of use can be used, but one has to go out and play with the programming to check the generator. regards, bill Bill Hennessy Berks Solar, LLC 371 Centennial Rd Mertztown, PA 19539 o 610 682 4300 c 484 560 4666 NABCEP certified installer PA contractor #44411 www.berkssolar.com On Wednesday, November 11, 2020, 8:20:57 PM EST, Chris Sparadeo <mailto:sparadeo.ch...@gmail.com> wrote: Thanks for the suggestion, Jay. Yes, the Sol-Ark has a very basic and limited AGS for 2 wire compatible gen sets. Gen start can be programmed with voltage or SOC, however gen stop is not a function that can not be readily programmed. Instead, the Sol-Ark is programmed to charge the battery bank to 90% of the rated Ah capacity of the battery bank before turning off the generator. You can ultimately adjust this gen stop parameter to be based on a specific SOC or voltage, but I believe that doing so requires a call into tech support. The tech I spoke with updated a setting (having to do with a TOU parameter I believe) that was not accessible via the system interface. AGS from Schnieder, Outback and even Magnum are less clunky, but I am hoping that Sol-Ark will eventually come out with new programming to remediate these minor but nevertheless, important issues -Chris On Wed, Nov 11, 2020 at 3:58 PM Jay <mailto:jay.pe...@gmail.com> wrote: Hi Chris I would install a timer. There are many dry contact dc or ac powered with a high degree of programmability. A question about the normal function of the AGS. I’ve talked to a few people that have mentioned that the ags has its own fuzzy logic, with limited programming. And they have had issues with it not turning on or not turning off What do you say? Jay On Nov 11, 2020, at 10:43 AM, Glenn Burt <mailto:glenn.b...@glbcc.com> wrote: I believe the Atkinson GSCM could be used to do this. -Glenn Sent from my 'smart'phone, so please excuse typos and spelling errors. -- Original message-- From: Chris Sparadeo Date: Wed, Nov 11, 2020 11:16 AM To: RE-wrenches; Cc: Subject:[RE-wrenches] Sol-Ark Gen Exercise Cycle Hi all, According to Sol-Ark tech support, they do not currently have a programmable exercise cycle for its two-wire start function. When paired with a generator like a Generac Ecogen (exercise cycle is automatically disabled when configured with two wire start) this means that the only way to effectively run an exercise cycle on your generator would be to do it manually. I am wondering if anyone has run into this issue and if there are work a
