Re: [RE-wrenches] Pump LCBs
HI Chris, Have you tried Sun Pumps? They make a lot of good pump controllers. Steve Bell Morningstar Tech Support sb...@morningstarcorp.com On Wed, Feb 28, 2018 at 1:22 PM, wrote: > Dear people: > > I have a fellow looking for a supplier of LCBs for their PV pumping > projects; here are the specifications. Nominal voltage, 48V; nominal PV > input 48V; maximum PV input 60V; max output voltage 60V; max output amps > 10A; in a Nema 4 enclosure; rhe most important is to have an early start > in low light conditions on 5VDC. In 5Vdc on MPPT must start the motor > (minimum starting voltage). > > It appears Solar Converters is no more...and Dankoff is not being of > assistance on this matter. Any other suggestions? THANKS! > > > Chris Daum > Oasis Montana Inc. > 406-777-4309 or 4321 > 406-777-4309 fax > www.oasismontana.com > > > > > > > ___ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List-Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches. > org/maillist.html > > List rules & etiquette: > www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > www.members.re-wrenches.org > > ___ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] MPPT on a MX60
Hi Bill, The original Voc of the array was probably about 91 volts, the original Vmp of the array was probably about 68 to 70 volts. The 58 Vmp from the array still seems somewhat low. I would check for bad/corroded connections causing a voltage drop while under load. Best Regards, Steve Bell On Mon, Oct 2, 2017 at 8:27 AM, frenergy wrote: > Off-gridders, > > Checked in on a 13 year old system and something caught my > eye. Yes, everything is 13 years old. First off: PVs: 14 (7 strings of 2 > PVs each), Shell 150's, batts: HUP 845 AHR, 48 volt system, MX60 CC. So > the MX60 was reading (mid day) ~1500 watts or ~27 amps (somewhat low for > the array but acceptable considering age, soiling, tilt, etc. Regardless, > Volts "IN" were 58, batt volts were ~53.5. This info was taken from the MX > display. > > For PVs that have an MPPT rating of 45.5 volts ( X 2 per > string = 91V), that 58 volts seems especially low. Normal?? Possible one > string is pulling down the rest? Feedback welcome. > > Bill > > Feather River Solar Electric > Bill Battagin, Owner > 4291 Nelson St. > Taylorsville, CA 95983 > 530.284.7849 > CA Lic 874049 > www.frenergy.net > > > --- > This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. > https://www.avast.com/antivirus > > > ___ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List-Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.or > g/maillist.html > > List rules & etiquette: > www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > www.members.re-wrenches.org > > ___ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Low array voltage stumper on legacy system
Hello Allan, Did you check the Voc of each string? Is it possible that there could one or more shorted bypass diodes in the modules? Just a thought. Steve Bell Morningstar tech support On Thu, Aug 25, 2016 at 8:04 AM, Allan Sindelar wrote: > Wrenches, > Here's one I haven't seen before. 1997 grid-tie battery backup system that > was one of my first, although actual installation was by another before I > was licensed. 16 BP 275, 36-cell 12V modules, the standard of that time. > Early Outback MX60 replaced C40 around 2005; array rewired to four 48V > strings of four modules at that time, serving a 24V battery bank. Tested > with an end-of-life 9-year-old AGM battery bank in the system, but in Sell > mode with a 26.4V Sell voltage setpoint. > > At 11 am, 68ºF, 900W/m2 on the Daystar, with the array under charge, I > measured 3.5A, 3.4A, 2.4A, and 3.6A. Short-circuiting each string, I > measured 4.0A, 3.7A, 3.8A, and 3.7A. Original rating was 4.45A, so except > for the third string, current is what I'd reasonably expect from > 20-year-old module degradation. However, watching the periodic MPPT sweep > from the MX60 at the array, the maximum power point voltage for the entire > 48V array settled at 14.6A at 37.2V, or about 540 watts from a 1,200W > (originally rated) array. > > I have commonly seen the current reduce substantially with age-related > degradation, while the MPP voltage remains fairly close to original. I have > never seen the voltage drop this far - an average of 9.3V MPP per each 12V > module. All of the cells are seriously browned. I have other systems out > there with the same modules of similar age that don't exhibit this weird > behavior. Can anyone help me understand why the MPP voltage would drop so > far below what is typical? > > There is a slight possibility of corroded buried input conductors, because > of a serious but corrected issue of galvanic corrosion from a ground fault > (a Romex connector pinching a conductor and allowing seepage to ground). > This was corrected years ago, but the input conductors were direct burial > for ~100' and there was never a bonding conductor between the array and the > house, so there is a potential for corrosion damage. However, the voltage > measured at both ends while charging was identical, so I think that would > indicate that high conductor resistance isn't the issue. > > As usual, thank you for the collective and individual wisdom shared here. > Allan > -- > > *Allan Sindelar* > al...@sindelarsolar.com > NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional > NABCEP Certified Technical Sales Professional > New Mexico EE98J Journeyman Electrician > Founder (Retired), Positive Energy, Inc. > *505 780-2738 <505%20780-2738> cell* > > > > ___ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List-Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches. > org/maillist.html > > List rules & etiquette: > www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > www.members.re-wrenches.org > > > ___ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Morningstar new battery backup , more comments and opinions
Hello William, I had not seen the video prior to your posting. I totally agree that a one day install of a complete battery back-up retro-fit is completely unrealistic. Perhaps 4 to 7 days, depending on the complexity and size of the retro-fit. Yes, one day might suffice to install and wire just the TS-MPPT-600-TR, but creating a sub-panel, installing and wiring the battery-based inverter and the battery bank will require significantly more time. I have spoken with our marketing department, and they will be addressing this misrepresentation. I believe all our printed literature for the TS-MPPT-600 is accurate and does not contain any misrepresentations. I am sorry for the unrealistic expectation that the video currently creates. Unrealistic expectations are never good for the industry. Respectfully, Steve Bell Technical Support Morningstar Corporation sb...@morningstarcorp.com www.morningstarcorp.com On Wed, Jun 3, 2015 at 9:03 AM, wrote: > Chris: > > > > The market Morningstar is going for is the customers with non-battery, > grid-tie only inverters. If you then add the Morningstar product and a > whole lot of other items and a lot of labor, you can have battery backup. > If you already have a complete GTBB system, such as you describe in your > home, you cannot benefit from this product. > > > > I viewed the demo video and I find it disingenuous. The block diagram > presented shows a battery bank, a batter inverter and a critical loads > sub-panel. The verbal description they offer of this system and > interconnection is: “some wiring.” This is a vast understatement in most > cases. Adding a sub-panel and segregating loads is major surgery in a > majority of homes, not to mention creating a safe storage container for > batteries, interconnecting 600VDC PV feeders, AC Feeders, etc., etc. To > pre-bias the customer by saying such a project can be completed in one day > makes it really hard to present a realistic bid for what can be a pretty > significant project. I liken this to the Tesla hoopla about how easy it is > to screw a small box to your garage wall and you will have endless power > without reliance on the grid. It’s a lot of over-simplification to sell > product, and a disservice to the installing community. > > > > I’d like to see a response from Morningstar on this point. > > > > William Miller > > > > > > *From:* RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] *On > Behalf Of *Chris Mason > *Sent:* Wednesday, June 03, 2015 5:03 AM > *To:* RE-wrenches > *Subject:* Re: [RE-wrenches] Morningstar new battery backup , more > comments and opinions > > > > I'm having trouble understanding the application for this product. I have > the tristar 600V CC in my own home. > > If I want to have backup and also export to the grid, the Outback radian > does that without the need to change anything over. WHy would you want to > have the Radian as a backup AND have a grid tied inverter, and have to > change over a manual switch to provide power to the CC? What am I missing? > > > > On Tue, Jun 2, 2015 at 4:46 PM, Tom Lane wrote: > > I would appreciate more opinions and comments on the new Morningstar > Controller for Grid connected systems . I developed a simple transfer > switch back for this type of application back when Grid Connected systems > were 48 volts . This seems like a great idea for high voltage Grid > Connected System . Tom > > > ___ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List-Archive: > http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html > > List rules & etiquette: > www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > www.members.re-wrenches.org > > > ___ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Fw: Xantrex C-40 Drifting
Hello Wrenches, I have been following this C-40 drifting thread. From my personal experience the C-40 always had about a 0.2 to 0.4 volt drift since the early days (1994-95). This was on a 48-volt system, so the drift might be less at lower battery voltages. The drift was not a simple mis-calibration; one day 0.3 volt high, another day 0.4 volts low. I don't know if this is a component of the problem, but thought I would mention it. Best Regards, Steve Bell On Wed, May 20, 2015 at 7:34 PM, wrote: > Hi: > > My thought is that the mechanism by which the battery voltage slowly rises > under the influence of a solar module connected through a C40 type PWM > controller is due to the fact that the PWM type controllers don't regulate > voltage but rather connect the full output voltage of the module/array to > the battery on a pulse width limited basis. > > Seems that those high voltage pulses, brief as they may be thanks to the > PWM, are still none the less able to slowly raise the resting terminal > voltage of at least some types of AGM batteries. > > I don't know enough about batteries to know if that is a problem or not. > Perhaps its perfectly normal as almost any new lead acid battery will > retain a higher than normal measurable "ghost voltage" just after it has > been fully charged. > > JARMO > > > > _ > > * Jarmo Venalainen* | * Schneider Electric ** | Xantrex Brand* | > *CANADA* | *Sales Application Engineer* > * Phone:* +604-422-2528 | *Tech Support:* 800-670-0707 | *Mobile:* > +604-505-0291 > * Email:* *jarmo.venalai...@schneider-electric.com* > | *Site:** www.Xantrex.com* > <http://www.xantrex.com/> | *Address:* 3700 Gilmore Way, Burnaby, BC > V5G4M1 > <http://www.xantrexrebate.com/> <http://www.xantrex.com/> > <https://www.facebook.com/Xantrex> <https://twitter.com/Xantrex> > <https://twitter.com/Xantrex> > > > *** Please consider the environment before printing this e-mail > > > > From: Drake To: RE-wrenches < > re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org>, Date: 05/20/2015 11:11 AM Subject: Re: > [RE-wrenches] Fw: Xantrex C-40 Drifting Sent by: "RE-wrenches" < > re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org> > -- > > > > The modules are Sunwise 22 V, 40 W modules. The model number of the > modules is SW-S40P SWT. The are wired in series for a 24 V nominal > system. That would be an mppt voltage of 44 V on a system that directs > batteries to absorb at 29.4 volts. I'm not sure what the NOCT voltage would > be, but it would seem like it would be an ok fit? > > I think you are on the right track with the MPPT charging graph. The CC > likely allows pulses of full charge to hit when the batteries are at their > maximum set point voltage. > > Would a very short pulse of high voltage be a problem of a VRLA battery? > Could any significant gassing take place? > > Thanks, > > Drake > > > > At 06:04 PM 5/19/2015, you wrote: > Hi: > > We haven't changed anything the in C40. The essence of my idea was that > perhaps the "trouble" systems are the ones which have much higher module > Voc versus battery Vfloat. > > JARMO > > _ > > * Jarmo Venalainen* | *Schneider Electric ** | Xantrex Brand* | > *CANADA* | *Sales Application Engineer* > * Phone:* +604-422-2528 | *Tech Support:* 800-670-0707 | *Mobile:* > +604-505-0291 > * Email:* *jarmo.venalai...@schneider-electric.com* > | *Site:* > <http://www.xantrex.com/>*www.Xantrex.com* <http://www.xantrex.com/> | > *Address:* 3700 Gilmore Way, Burnaby, BC V5G4M1 > [image: []] <http://www.xantrex.com/> [image: []] > <https://www.facebook.com/Xantrex>[image: []] > <https://twitter.com/Xantrex>[image: []] <https://twitter.com/Xantrex> > > > *** Please consider the environment before printing this e-mail > > > > From: Ray Walters > To: RE-wrenches , > Date: 05/19/2015 11:00 AM > Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Fw: Xantrex C-40 Drifting > Sent by: "RE-wrenches" > > > > > Hi Jarmo; > > Early solar systems actually tried to use the principle of matching array > Vmpp to battery voltage in lieu of charge controllers. The biggest issue > is that when it is is hot the module voltage can drop below the battery > voltage needed, and when its cold the voltage will still be too high. > Batteries were either over charged or never reached full charge depending > on the
