Re: [RE-wrenches] getting PV modules up to the roof

[wirewiz]

Dana and August,

I have used a patent pending prototype of a solar module lifting system that I 
like very much, complies with OSHA and solves all the lifting issues.

I know the founder and he is looking for some feedback from installers to gain 
some industry traction while talking to potential investors.

Attached is a photo but more detailed info can be found at:. 
https://www.facebook.com/solargoat



Larry Liesner
Ross Solar Group
203-644-2404

On Jun 3, 2016, at 11:07 AM, August Goers wrote:

> Dana,
>  
> We still aren’t using the portable lifts. I’ve spoken with a few people from 
> other companies who have the lifts and they said that most of the time they 
> just sit in the warehouse. Certainly they are helpful for particularly tough 
> jobs.
>  
> Our crews are using glass suction cups to hoist panels up with ropes or 
> sometimes sling them over their shoulders.  We have several of these:
>  
> http://www.amazon.com/Woods-Powr-Grip-Vacuum-Metal-Handle/dp/B000KWTXZ6?ie=UTF8&psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=oh_aui_search_detailpage
>  
> We learned this trick from one of our installers who previously worked 
> installing big glass windows on high rises. They provide a very convenient 
> and sturdy handle to hold modules.
>  
> We also have one of the ladder hoists similar to the one shown in Homepower:
>  
> http://www.homepower.com/articles/solar-electricity/design-installation/pv-module-lift
>  
>  
> -August
>  
>  
> From: RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On 
> Behalf Of Dana Brandt
> Sent: Thursday, May 26, 2016 3:26 PM
> To: RE-wrenches
> Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] getting PV modules up to the roof
>  
> Hi Wrenches,
> 
> I'm curious if anyone has updates to this thread 3 years later. What are 
> people using to lift modules to the roof? 
> 
> I've been looking at ladder hoists online and wondering how well they'd work 
> in practice. Any experience or advice?
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Dana
> 
> Dana Brandt
> Ecotech Energy Systems, LLC
> www.ecotechenergy.com
> d...@ecotechenergy.com
> 360.318.7646
>  
> On Thu, Feb 7, 2013 at 10:44 AM, August Goers  wrote:
> Hi Wrenches,
>  
> I imagine that all of us working in rooftop PV have put some good hard 
> thought on the best way to get the modules up to the roof. There are various 
> lifts on the market, you can hoist them with ropes manually, or walk them up 
> a ladder (sling them over your back). I find that the majority of our 
> competition in the Bay Area walks panels up the ladder for residential 
> projects. What is your feeling about OSHA compliance of doing this?
>  
> Best,
>  
>  
> August
> 415.559.1525
> 
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Sunny Island Battery Disconnects

[wirewiz]

Take a look at Blue Sea

www.bluesea.com

Larry
On Feb 7, 2014 8:30 PM,  wrote:

> Friends:
>
>
>
> I am reworking an installation with 3 Sunny Island inverters.  The battery
> leads have no disconnecting means or OCP.  I have been looking for sensible
> hardware to provide this and I have found some options.  I am interested in
> any input on these or ideas I have not discovered.
>
>
>
> 1.   SMA BATFUSE.  I am having trouble deciding which one is right
> for a 3 SI install.
>
> a.   The B.003 appears to have fuse positions for the positive and
> the negative leads.  I am fairly darn certain I don't want fuses in the
> negative leads of a negative bonded system, and although this is my first
> SI install, I am pretty sure this is negative bonded.  Am I missing
> something here?
>
> b.  The B.001 has only positions for two fuses as far as I can see
> from the manual.
>
> c.   So it looks like neither will work for me.  Does anyone have any
> experience and/or wisdom here?
>
> 2.   Midnite Solar E-panels:
>
> a.   The regular panel has DC and AC components.  I want to control
> the AC elsewhere so I could order three slave units.  The Midnite unit
> mounts right under the inverter but I would prefer to have the OCP closer
> to the batteries.
>
> 3.   Outback:
>
> a.   We could purchase an Outback FX1000 and install three breakers
> in it.
>
> 4.   Breaker Size:
>
> a.   I have started to read the manual but I have yet to find out
> what size breaker fuse is recommended.  Have I just not found it yet?
>
> b.  Also, I have not found a specification for battery cable size.
> Am I blind?
>
>
>
> Thanks in advance.  I really appreciate the help I receive here.  I try to
> give as well as receive.
>
>
>
> William
>
>
>
>
>
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Re: [RE-wrenches] PV Assist - customer management

[wirewiz]

It's been all downhill for us hippies since Jerry Rubin went to work on Wall 
Street.

Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry

-Original Message-
From: "Solarguy" 
Sender: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.orgDate: Sat, 17 Aug 2013 
10:41:38 
To: 'RE-wrenches'
Reply-To: RE-wrenches 
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] PV Assist - customer management

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Re: [RE-wrenches] (no subject)

[wirewiz]

Mac,

David Smead of Ample Power has many years experience with gel batteries and has 
published this about charging gel batteries:

http://www.amplepower.com/gel/index.html

Larry Liesner



On Aug 3, 2013, at 9:46 PM, Mac Lewis wrote:

> Ray,
> 
> Yes, this is an off-grid applications.  I think you are right, the battery 
> guy sold him what he had.  Pretty pricey battery lesson twice!
> 
> 
> On Sat, Aug 3, 2013 at 6:42 PM, Ray Walters  wrote:
> Mac;
> 
> Is this off grid?   The Intimidator is not a high cycle life battery.  I've 
> had trouble finding exact ratings, but its probably in the 250 to 300 cycles 
> at 80% DOD.  I'd expect 3 years max in an off grid application.  Also the 
> Intimidators  I've seen are actually AGM, not Gel, but I don't know.  I 
> looked on Deka's website but didn't find any good charge set points.  This is 
> basically a sealed RV/ Marine battery.  Definitely not a top choice, but its 
> what the battery guys have on the shelf, so that's what they sell.
> You're on to the biggest problem, pulling off opposite corners of the bank to 
> balance the connector resistance between all the strings.  
> I go out of my way not to poo poo the customer's choice, but to make sure and 
> let them know you can't guarantee the performance of the system.   I had 
> almost the exact experience just a few months ago, where the customer had 
> just bought a new set of Intimidators.  I just told him to use them up, no 
> sense in worrying about it, and when they were worn out, we'd get him 
> something better.  I used AGM setting on the Midnite controller on that 
> system. Voltage set points should be his responsibility to track down, if 
> their gel.  It keeps you from being responsible for anything to do with the 
> battery performance or life.  When he needs a new set, you sell him the right 
> stuff, set it up right, and low and behold you'll look good when they outlast 
> his previous sets.
> R.Ray Walters
> CTO, Solarray, Inc
> Nabcep Certified PV Installer, 
> Licensed Master Electrician
> Solar Design Engineer
> 303 505-8760
> On 8/3/2013 5:31 PM, Mac Lewis wrote:
>> Hello wrenches,
>> 
>> I am looking for guidance with charging setpoints for a battery that I don't 
>> have experience with.  This system was put in by another solar company and 
>> this battery bank failed after 1.5 years.  He bought these batteries without 
>> consulting us, but now we are stuck with them.
>> It is a Deka Intimidator Gel Sealed Battery 12V 225 Ahr.  It is set up as 3 
>> strings of 4 batteries to give a 675Ahr bank at 48V.  The batteries were not 
>> wired at opposite corners, but inverter/charger leads were connected to the 
>> middle string.  We will fix that and other things but I don't use Deka 
>> batteries.
>> What charger setpoints would you recommend for this battery bank?  Does 
>> anyone have a good tech contact at Deka?  Anyone have any results to report 
>> about this type of battery in a solar application?
>> 
>> Thanks in advance
>> 
>> -- 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Mac Lewis
>> 
>> "Yo solo sé que no sé nada." -Sócrates
>> 
>> 
>> 
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> 
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> 
> 
> 
> Mac Lewis
> 
> "Yo solo sé que no sé nada." -Sócrates
> 
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Re: [RE-wrenches] SMA Secure Power Supply

[wirewiz]

If we have another long outage here in CT and we seem to have one every year 
now, I don't want to have to explain to my customers why I didn't use this 
inverter. 
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry

-Original Message-
From: Gary Willett 
Sender: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.orgDate: Mon, 22 Jul 2013 
17:33:26 
To: 
Reply-To: RE-wrenches 
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] SMA Secure Power Supply

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[RE-wrenches] Dow Powerhouse Solar Shingles

[wirewiz]

Had a couple of inquiries for these Dow Solar Shingles. It's difficult to
find any specs, pricing, how they are wired, and other information about
them.

I searched the archives and didn't find anything so anyone have any
experience with them.

Thank you.

Larry Liesner
Design and Installations
Elektron Solar, LLC
49 Richmondville Ave Suite 107
Westport, CT 06880
203-557-3127 (office)
203-644-2404 (cell)
203-549-0977 (fax)
wire...@gmail.com
NABCEP Certified PV Installer (# 032611-184)
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Enphase Wire Management

[wirewiz]

How do you tighten a Heyco Sunbundler?
Granted it will prevent the cable from falling to the roof but I could not 
tighten them to the point of securing the cable from movement. 
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry

-Original Message-
From: Brian Mehalic 
Sender: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.orgDate: Thu, 11 Apr 2013 
21:26:43 
To: RE-wrenches
Reply-To: RE-wrenches 
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Enphase Wire Management

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Re: [RE-wrenches] Conductor Sizing for Supply Side Connection

[wirewiz]

Gary,

I thought most inverters share power. So if the inverter has a 60A transfer
switch and all of that is needed for loads then none for charging and as
load demand decreases, charging increases.

Larry Liesner
Elektron Solar
On Feb 28, 2013 11:33 AM,  wrote:

> Garrison, et al:
>
>
>
> Another consideration when sizing the POCC OCPD (either load side or
> supply side) is charging current when the grid power returns and the
> battery bank is near the LBCO voltage.
>
>
>
> Bulk charging current and AC pass-through current both must be considered
> when sizing the POCC OCPD.
>
>
>
> Regards,
>
>
>
> Gary Willett
>
> Icarus Solar
>
> On Thu, 28 Feb 2013 10:04:51 -0600, Garrison Riegel <
> garri...@solarserviceinc.com> wrote:
>
>  Great point Dave.  It crossed my mind that it was technically possible,
> but figured since I would be removing loads off the main panel it was
> highly unlikely.  Thanks for the code reference.  I’ll go load side, and be
> prepared for some discussion.
>
>
>
>
>
> Thanks,
>
>
>
>
>
> Garrison
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto:
> re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] *On Behalf Of *Dave Click
> *Sent:* Thursday, February 28, 2013 9:21 AM
> *To:* re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org
> *Subject:* Re: [RE-wrenches] Conductor Sizing for Supply Side Connection
>
>
>
>
>
> As a note, supply side connections have an extra complication with battery
> backup systems. With a regular GT inverter you're just pushing current into
> that interconnection point and you can work out easily that you won't have
> any overcurrent issues unless you made a big mistake and your inverter
> output exceeds the rating of your service conductors. However, with a
> battery system you're also potentially pulling current from that point.
> Before the battery inverter is installed your main breaker protects your
> service conductors, but if the inverter is pulling in 60A and the main
> breaker is also operating near its capacity, you could have >240A running
> over 200A service conductors with no breakers tripping. You would overwhelm
> the capacity of the service [230.23(A)] and no breakers would trip. You
> could fix this by replacing your service conductors back to the transformer
> (I'm just saying that it's an option) or downsizing the main breaker, and
> at that point you're probably better off just making it a load side
> connection. I'd go load side and argue with the AHJ to use the 2011 update
> mentioned earlier.
>
> Dave
>
>
>
> On 2013/2/28 9:55, Garrison Riegel wrote:
>
>
>
> Allen,
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> The benefit I see would be to allow for a code compliant load side
> connection on a 200A panel with a 200A MB, where the AHJ is on the 2008 NEC
> or older and will not listen to your good logic.  I don’t think this would
> always be the best option, but if backup loads and inverter output were
> less than 32A then a 40A OCPD in the main panel should be fine?  Since it
> sounds like the 60A breaker in the main panel is not a safety issue, but a
> design consideration, I suppose I would just prefer flexibility when
> possible.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> That said, this AHJ is on the 2008, and the loads will be less than 30A,
> but based on this conversation I plan to go with a 60A and try to convince
> the AHJ that it will be code compliant in their future!
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Thanks,
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Garrison
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org [
> mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org]
> *On Behalf Of *Allan Sindelar
> *Sent:* Thursday, February 28, 2013 8:14 AM
> *To:* RE-wrenches
> *Subject:* Re: [RE-wrenches] Conductor Sizing for Supply Side Connection
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Garrison,
> I don't know why it's not listed as 60A max, but my own internal logic
> would ask why it should be. The only benefit I could see for using smaller
> than a 60A breaker would be to allow use of #8 conductors (allowed with a
> 40A or 50A breaker) instead of the #6 necessary with a 60A breaker. And of
> course, you could use a 40A breaker with #6 conductors, so theoretically it
> would be fine. I just fail to see any benefit to doing so.
> Allan
>
>
>
> *Allan Sindelar*
> al...@positiveenergysolar.com
> NABCEP Certified Photovoltaic Installer
> NABCEP Certified Technical Sales Professional
> New Mexico EE98J Journeyman Electrician
> Founder and Chief Technology Officer
> *Positive Energy, Inc.*
> 3209 Richards Lane (note new address)
> Santa Fe, New Mexico 87507
> *505 424-1112*
> www.positiveenergysolar.com
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On 2/28/2013 6:27 AM, Garrison Riegel wrote:
>
>
>
> Thanks Allen for clarifying why a 60A is required.  I was wondering.  The
> spec does list a surge current of 9000W so I thought that may be the
> rationale, but even that would only require a 50A, and since this surge
> occurs during ‘stand-alone mode’ it didn’t seem to apply to the OCPD at the
> main panel.  Your explanation makes more sense, but I wonder why then they
> d

[RE-wrenches] EPDM Roof Attachment/Flashing

[wirewiz]

Hello Wrenches,

Installing rail mounted PV array on a 2 1/2 / 12 pitch EPDM residential
roof. It's a flat section of roof in the middle of the house. Need to keep
it low so would like to use 3" or 4" Unirac standoffs. The standard 1-6"
peel and stick witches hat is fine for a 7" standoff but too tall for the
3-4" standoff. Unirac and Oatey have advised against using the
Oatey aluminum flashing although the roofer who did the roof said it would
be OK using seam tape between the Oatey and the EPDM. Another roofer I know
has said absolutely not.

I did find a rubber Masterflash (6" x 6" base) that's a good fit but all
their images show it used on metal roofs only and it's not a peel and
stick. Can I use it with seam tape and/or caulking.

Do I just need to go with the 7" standoff and the standard peel and
stick witches hat and forget the low profile?

Or is their some other system out there (roof attachment/flashing) that
would keep it low. The ridge height is already at the 35 ft limit and the
upper row of mod's would go above the ridge with the 7" standoff.

I will work with a roofer but would like to figure this out before just
turning it over to the roofer

Very much appreciate any thoughts.

Thank you and Happy New Year to you all.

Larry Liesner
Design and Installations
Elektron Solar, LLC
49 Richmondville Ave Suite 107
Westport, CT 06880
203-557-3127 (office)
203-644-2404 (cell)
203-549-0977 (fax)
wire...@gmail.com
NABCEP Certified PV Installer (# 032611-184)
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Re: [RE-wrenches] small wind generators

[wirewiz]

I am a dealer for Ampair wind turbines. The 100 watt is low output, about 50 to 
75 ah/day but extremely quiet and durable (survives hurricanes). I have been 
competing in the marine market with the now AirBreeze for 15 years. Or take a 
look at the 600 for more output. All Ampair's are marine grade. Contact me off 
line for a price if your interested. 
Larry 
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry

-Original Message-
From: Drake 
Sender: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.orgDate: Tue, 03 Apr 2012 
09:44:38 
To: 
Reply-To: RE-wrenches 
Subject: [RE-wrenches] small wind generators

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Re: [RE-wrenches] embedded energy in pv

[wirewiz]

Todd,  
So true, thanks for the reality check. An energy survey is required here in CT 
if you want rebate money.

Larry Liesner
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry

-Original Message-
From: toddc...@finestplanet.com
Sender: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.orgDate: Thu, 15 Mar 2012 
12:42:45 
To: RE-wrenches
Reply-To: RE-wrenches 
Subject: [RE-wrenches] embedded energy in pv

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Re: [RE-wrenches] small battery boxes

[wirewiz]

Jeff,

SunWize has one that measures 14.5 x 10.3 x 7.5 for GRP 22. They also have a 
pole mount kit for it.
The part # for the box is 6061BE141007-A. It's all on page 90 of their 
catalogue. 
SunWize 800-817-6527
 
Larry Liesner
Wirewiz
31 Lincoln St
Westport, CT 06880
Phone: 203-644-2404
wire...@gmail.com
www.wire-wiz.com




On Dec 29, 2011, at 11:52 PM, Jeff Yago wrote:

> We are having a real problem finding a pole-mounted battery box for smaller
> solar sign lighting projects.  We have switched to LED lights which cost
> more byt do not require the larger batteries and solar module.  However, the
> smallest battery box we can find is the DPW 16" wide x 9" deep X 20" tall.
> This is a great box for  group 31 battery, but is too large and costs too
> much for smaller applications.  I am thinking about using a group 22 battery
> which would fit in a pole-mounted battery box that is 12" wide x 8" deep x
> 15" high, which still leaves room for a control panel at the top rear.
> 
> It does not look like the solar manufacturers have anything, so do you know
> of anybody making a battery box this size but perhaps it is being sold for
> another type application.  It still will need small screened louvers for
> ventilation and a locking door, but we can always make our own control panel
> if that is not supplied.  Since its 12 volt DC and off-grid application I do
> not think it needs to be UL listed which might help reduce cost, but not
> sure.
> 
> Any suggestions??
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Jeff Yago
> 
> 
> 
> 
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Gross PV production meter options

[wirewiz]

David,

Here is a link to what you might be looking for:
http://www.outbackpower.com/pdf/tech_notes/120_vac_single_inverter.pdf

Larry Liesner
Wirewiz
31 Lincoln St
Westport, CT 06880
203-644-2404
wire...@gmail.com
www.wire-wiz.com
NABCEP Certified PV Installer (# 032611-184)


On Tue, Dec 6, 2011 at 5:08 PM, Dave Palumbo
wrote:

> We are installing a grid interactive, with battery back-up, OutBack Radian
> GS8048 with 5kW of PV. Vermont has a “Solar Adder” premium that varies from
> utility to utility but in this case adds 6 cents per kWh over and above
> net-metering (basically to come up to a par value of 20 cents/kWh for PV
> production). 
>
> ** **
>
> We need to install a gross PV production meter between the main (utility)
> load center panel and the Radian inverter. We need a meter that is not
> multidirectional, as we only want to count the kWh’s that are pushed out
> into the grid (and not subtract what the Radian uses from utility power to
> satisfy the protected loads center when the sunlight doesn’t handle that).
> 
>
> ** **
>
> Hialeah Meter offered a GE KV2CE meter that can be programmed to do what
> we need for $ 260 plus $25 programming fee.
>
> ** **
>
> The utility will have an option, but I’m wondering what other options
> others have used for this situation.
>
> ** **
>
> David Palumbo
>
> Independent Power LLC 
>
> 462 Solar Way Drive
>
> Hyde Park, VT 05655**
>
> *www.independentpowerllc.com *
>
> NABCEP Certified PV Installer
>
> Vermont Solar Partner
>
> 23 Years Experience, (802) 888-7194 
>
> ** **
>
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Solar gathering?

[wirewiz]

William,

You are right, I stand corrected.

Larry
On Oct 10, 2011, at 2:20 AM, William Miller wrote:

> Larry:
> 
> I don't think he said, "don't talk to them."  I think he said they are "still 
> in training."
> 
> William
> 
> 
> At 07:59 AM 10/9/2011, you wrote:
>> Again, with all due respect, the don't talk to anyone with less than 50 
>> installs is a bit extreme and quite frankly a little arrogant.
>> 
>> 
>> Larry Liesner
>> Wirewiz
>> 31 Lincoln St
>> Westport, CT 06880
>> Phone: 203-644-2404
>> wire...@gmail.com
>> www.wire-wiz.com
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> On Oct 9, 2011, at 12:31 PM, North Texas Renewable Energy Inc wrote:
>> 
>>> With all due respect to your experience in California Joel, total 
>>> installations is not a very accurate indicator of ability in todays PV 
>>> industry imho. A good start is how many years have you been in the 
>>> business, really in the business. This does not include the PV pump in your 
>>> koi pond but real verifiable, green-tagged installs. 20+ year electrical 
>>> contractors with a half-dozen installs don't count either. NABCEP 
>>> certification is another excellent filter but several ECs around here 
>>> simply hired a NABCEP cert to be able to fly the logo. 
>>> 
>>> I have sat through Bill Brooks classes almost as many times as John Wiles 
>>> classes. Just spent 8 hours in a James Stallcup Sr. class in  Austin Friday 
>>> and had lunch Saturday with the 25 year Exec. Dir. of treia.org. My www 
>>> site doesn't emphasize the number of installs but it does show a list of 
>>> training classes, and conferences etc I have attended over the last 18 
>>> years.
>>> 
>>> I won't go into the politics of why Texas is a decade behind the leading 
>>> edge of PV in the US but I probably don't have to when you consider our 
>>> political situation here. And our working with TREIA at the state capitol 
>>> for the last 6 years "greasing the skids" in favor of pro-RE legislation 
>>> gives a whole new perspective on those politics. There's a reason SEIA & 
>>> SEPA brought SPI to Dallas. 
>>> 
>>> And since you mentioned it, I don't know how many Wrenches will be at SPI 
>>> in Dallas but be sure to check out the pulled pork sandwiches and 
>>> "first-drink-free" meetup at Poor Davids Pub on the 19th from 6-9. It's 
>>> sponsored by the Texas Solar Energy Society and it's just a couple of 
>>> blocks from the big show. We'll be looking for NABCEP shirts.
>>> 
>>> Jim Duncan
>>> North Texas Renewable Energy
>>> NABCEP Certified Solar PV
>>> Installer No.031310-57
>>> TECL 27398
>>> nt...@1scom.net 
>>> 817.917.0527
>>> www.ntrei.com
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Dear Jesse,
>>> 
>>> 1. Go to the Dallas solar exhibition and spend a lot of time on the floor
>>> talking to real engineers with field experience (not salespeople). First
>>> question to ask is "How many PV systems have you installed?" Anyone with
>>> less than 50 systems under their belt is either reading from the book or
>>> still in training.
>>> 
>>> 2. Attend a Bill Brooks training session. Bill has strong opinions that some
>>> wrenches disagree with but has seen more PV installations than over 99% of
>>> the people on Earth and has spend decades thinking about what is good and
>>> bad PV.
>>> 
>>> 3. Meet with and walk the exhibit floor with and talk shop day and night
>>> with as many wrenches as you can (at least 3 a day).
>>> 
>>> 4. Go to the exhibits all the time they are open and keep your ears open.
>>> Wrenching is parts and the people who put parts together. Only go to
>>> sessions and workshops when the exhibits are closed.
>>> 
>>> 5. Don't become a true believer in any one part or one way to put parts
>>> together. There are many good and bad parts and techniques. The quest is
>>> finding something better.
>>> 
>>> Have fun.
>>> Joel Davidson
>>> "Not all change is for the better, but nothing gets better without change."
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Solar gathering?

[wirewiz]

Again, with all due respect, the don't talk to anyone with less than 50 
installs is a bit extreme and quite frankly a little arrogant.


Larry Liesner
Wirewiz
31 Lincoln St
Westport, CT 06880
Phone: 203-644-2404
wire...@gmail.com
www.wire-wiz.com




On Oct 9, 2011, at 12:31 PM, North Texas Renewable Energy Inc wrote:

> With all due respect to your experience in California Joel, total 
> installations is not a very accurate indicator of ability in todays PV 
> industry imho. A good start is how many years have you been in the business, 
> really in the business. This does not include the PV pump in your koi pond 
> but real verifiable, green-tagged installs. 20+ year electrical contractors 
> with a half-dozen installs don't count either. NABCEP certification is 
> another excellent filter but several ECs around here simply hired a NABCEP 
> cert to be able to fly the logo. 
> 
> I have sat through Bill Brooks classes almost as many times as John Wiles 
> classes. Just spent 8 hours in a James Stallcup Sr. class in  Austin Friday 
> and had lunch Saturday with the 25 year Exec. Dir. of treia.org. My www site 
> doesn't emphasize the number of installs but it does show a list of training 
> classes, and conferences etc I have attended over the  last 18 years.
> 
> I won't go into the politics of why Texas is a decade behind the leading edge 
> of PV in the US but I probably don't have to when you consider our political 
> situation here. And our working with TREIA at the state capitol for the last 
> 6 years "greasing the skids" in favor of pro-RE legislation gives a whole new 
> perspective on those politics. There's a reason SEIA & SEPA brought SPI to 
> Dallas.
> 
> And since you mentioned it, I don't know how many Wrenches will be at SPI in 
> Dallas but be sure to check out the pulled pork sandwiches and 
> "first-drink-free" meetup at Poor Davids Pub on the 19th from 6-9. It's 
> sponsored by the Texas Solar Energy Society and it's just a couple of blocks 
> from the big show. We'll be looking for NABCEP shirts.
> 
> Jim Duncan
> North Texas Renewable Energy
> NABCEP Certified Solar PV
> Installer No.031310-57
> TECL 27398
> nt...@1scom.net 
> 817.917.0527
> www.ntrei.com
> 
> 
> Dear Jesse,
> 
> 1. Go to the Dallas solar exhibition and spend a lot of time on the floor
> talking to real engineers with field experience (not salespeople). First
> question to ask is "How many PV systems have you installed?" Anyone with
> less than 50 systems under their belt is either reading from the book or
> still in training.
> 
> 2. Attend a Bill Brooks training session. Bill has strong opinions that some
> wrenches disagree with but has seen more PV installations than over 99% of
> the people on Earth and has spend decades thinking about what is good and
> bad PV.
> 
> 3. Meet with and walk the exhibit floor with and talk shop day and night
> with as many wrenches as you can (at least 3 a day).
> 
> 4. Go to the exhibits all the time they are open and keep your ears open.
> Wrenching is parts and the people who put parts together. Only go to
> sessions and workshops when the exhibits are closed.
> 
> 5. Don't become a true believer in any one part or one way to put parts
> together. There are many good and bad parts and techniques. The quest is
> finding something better.
> 
> Have fun.
> Joel Davidson
> "Not all change is for the better, but nothing gets better without change."
> 
> 
> 
>  Inc.vcf>___
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Home Depot solar?

[wirewiz]

Andrew,

Koyaanisqatsi is also a great movie by Francis Ford Copolla. You should all
see it. It's been awhile since I've seen it but if I remember correctly it's
a Hopi Indian term meaning once we start digging from the earth, we're
screwed beyond repair.

Larry Liesner
Design and Installations
Elektron Solar, LLC
49 Richmondville Ave Suite 107
Westport, CT 06880
203-557-3127 (office)
203-644-2404 (cell)
203-549-0977 (fax)
wire...@gmail.com

On Thu, Sep 29, 2011 at 12:31 PM, Solar Energy Solutions <
solarenergysoluti...@yahoo.com> wrote:

> Home Depot IS selling PV in Portland Oregon through Solar City.
>
>  Seirrabuton Club is marketing PV to their members in Oregon.  They
> have chosen a single contractor for the entire state to install all of
> their member's systems.  Payola is $300.00/system installed.
>
>
> *Andrew Koyaanisqatsi*
> President
> *Solar Energy Solutions, Inc.*
> Since 1987,
> Moving Portland and Beyond
> to an Environmentally Sustainable Future.
>  *503-238-4502*
> *www.solarenergyoregon.com *
> **
> *"Better one's House too little one day*
> *than too big all the Year after."*
>
>  *From:* Jason Szumlanski 
> *To:* RE-wrenches 
> *Sent:* Thursday, September 29, 2011 8:17 AM
> *Subject:* Re: [RE-wrenches] Home Depot solar?
>
> We were recently asked to fix a royal mess by a SDHW installer
> contracted via Home Depot. Not fun. 60+ systems with various
> deficiencies. The installer was to blame, not HD.
>
> HD is not selling PV in our market (fortunately).
>
> Jason Szumlanski
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org
> [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of Jesse
> Dahl
> Sent: Thursday, September 29, 2011 10:39 AM
> To: RE-wrenches
> Subject: [RE-wrenches] Home Depot solar?
>
> Anyone out there have any experience with Home Depot's solar installers?
>
> Jesse
>
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NABCEP Certified PV Installer (# 032611-184)
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Re: [RE-wrenches] 690.31(B) "within the photovoltaic array"

[wirewiz]

Lumeta dealer has been sending links for unlisted wire management systems,
nothing from Lumeta itself. Cooper B-Line EnviroShield is listed and is an
easier drop in raceway but very expensive.

On Tue, Sep 6, 2011 at 4:02 PM, Mark Frye  wrote:

> **
> The idea of "within the array" goes to the idea that the conductors will be
> located on the underside of an array of traditional framed moduled and will
> be afforded a modicum of protection from physical damage by the module
> itself.
>
> So the issue is one of physical protection of the conductors. That is what
> tha AJH should be looking to. If he has cold feet about approving a
> non-standard method using un-listed componets based on local conditions,
> then he is understandably going to ask for a solution utilizing listed
> materials and standard methods.
>
> What kind of support are you getting from Lumeta around this?
>
> Mark Frye
> Berkeley Solar Electric Systems
> 303 Redbud Way
> Nevada City,  CA 95959
> (530) 401-8024
> *www.berkeleysolar.com* 
>
>
>  --
> *From:* re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto:
> re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] *On Behalf Of *
> wire...@gmail.com
> *Sent:* Tuesday, September 06, 2011 12:44 PM
> *To:* re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org
> *Subject:* [RE-wrenches] 690.31(B) "within the photovoltaic array"
>
> Wrenches,
>
> I am installing Lumeta peel and stick modules (similar to laminates) on a
> flat EPDM roof. No racking. NEC2008 690.31(B) says single conductor cable
> listed and labeled as PV wire shall be permitted in exposed outdoor
> locations..."within the array". 690.2 defines array as a mechanically
> integrated assembly of modules or panels within a support structure...to
> form a direct-current power producing unit. With the Lumeta's there is no
> support structure. If you look at the diagram in the NEC 2008 (page 70-576)
> it shows a box around the modules or panels and labels that box as the
> "Array or photovoltaic power source".
>
> My AHJ was at first not sure but then told me I had to install all the PV
> wire in a listed raceway because the interconnects between the Lumeta's were
> not within the array. But if you draw a box around all the Lumeta's it would
> look like the array diagram that I referred to above.
>
> Because of my roof layout, it would be much easier to install an unlisted
> wire management system within the array rather than conduit which I will do
> but in reading the NEC it just wasn't clear to me what "within the array"
> means.
>
> Any thoughts would be appreciated.
>
> Thank you.
>
> Larry Liesner
> Design and Installations
> Elektron Solar, LLC
> 16 Ketchum St.
> Westport, CT 06880
> 203-557-3127 (office)
> 203-644-2404 (cell)
> 203-549-0977 (fax)
> wire...@gmail.com
> NABCEP Certified PV Installer (# 032611-184)
>
>
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>


-- 
Larry Liesner
Design and Installations
Elektron Solar, LLC
49 Richmondville Ave Suite 107
Westport, CT 06880
203-557-3127 (office)
203-644-2404 (cell)
203-549-0977 (fax)
wire...@gmail.com
NABCEP Certified PV Installer (# 032611-184)
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[RE-wrenches] 690.31(B) "within the photovoltaic array"

[wirewiz]

Wrenches,

I am installing Lumeta peel and stick modules (similar to laminates) on a
flat EPDM roof. No racking. NEC2008 690.31(B) says single conductor cable
listed and labeled as PV wire shall be permitted in exposed outdoor
locations..."within the array". 690.2 defines array as a mechanically
integrated assembly of modules or panels within a support structure...to
form a direct-current power producing unit. With the Lumeta's there is no
support structure. If you look at the diagram in the NEC 2008 (page 70-576)
it shows a box around the modules or panels and labels that box as the
"Array or photovoltaic power source".

My AHJ was at first not sure but then told me I had to install all the PV
wire in a listed raceway because the interconnects between the Lumeta's were
not within the array. But if you draw a box around all the Lumeta's it would
look like the array diagram that I referred to above.

Because of my roof layout, it would be much easier to install an unlisted
wire management system within the array rather than conduit which I will do
but in reading the NEC it just wasn't clear to me what "within the array"
means.

Any thoughts would be appreciated.

Thank you.

Larry Liesner
Design and Installations
Elektron Solar, LLC
16 Ketchum St.
Westport, CT 06880
203-557-3127 (office)
203-644-2404 (cell)
203-549-0977 (fax)
wire...@gmail.com
NABCEP Certified PV Installer (# 032611-184)
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Re: [RE-wrenches] AC Coupling

[wirewiz]

Yes, there should be an uptick in at least inquiries about solar backup here in 
the NE.

I went to a site in CT where I was called in to see why the customer was upset 
about why her backup batteries went dead when she was told the solar would stay 
on line and charge them during what is now week long outages in lots of CT, 
including my daughter. Luckily for us  our power stayed on and we've had our 
granddaughter all week. We're not giving her back or maybe not.

Anyway, I found that one of the installers involved (there are two, one did the 
grid tie and one did the backup and are now pointing fingers at each other) 
thought they could install charge controllers and during an outage then divert 
the grid tie solar string voltage to the batteries through these controllers. I 
was told they were Outback MX or FM60's but I found two totally blue boxes, no 
labeling whatsoever and have no idea who the manufacturer is??. Realizing, I 
guess, that the string voltage was way too high, the connections were never 
made but the equipment was left there on the wall as a disguise (maybe) hoping 
we would never have a long outage like this.

It remains to be seen if the existing Xantrex SW5548's can be AC coupled to the 
Sunpower X inverter. Me, I'm heading for the hills on this one.

I also have an ethics issue question here. If you were asked by the installer 
to check the system and saw what I saw would you tell the furious customer who 
wanted answers or leave it up to the installer(s) to do the right thing even 
though it's clear to me that they already deceived her. Why neither installer, 
instead of me, came to check the system or did not even want to be present when 
I was there is strange to me. Maybe I should not have gotten involved.  

Anyone, ever see or hear of plain boxes with no labeling being installed as 
controllers. 

Thank you.

Larry Liesner
Wirewiz
31 Lincoln St
Westport, CT 06880
Phone: 203-644-2404
wire...@gmail.com
www.wire-wiz.com




On Sep 2, 2011, at 11:51 AM, Larry Brown wrote:

> Wrenches,
> 
> After Hurricane Irene left a lot of people without power here in the 
> Northeast, customers who have grid-tied systems are asking about some battery 
> backup to power some essential loads.
> 
> We have used Sunny Islands but they require either 2 Sunny Islands or a step 
> up transformer to get 240 volts for the well pump.  Schneider Electric  
> (Xantrex XW) inverters look like they would work  for this application and do 
> 120/240 volt output as well and we have used these in off grid applications 
> but not as AC coupled.  I have considered Magnum because they also do 120/240 
> volts but they need battery diversion to ensure the batteries are not over 
> charged.
> 
> None of these systems are going to be rewired as a DC system so I am looking 
> for any feed back on what others are using to AC couple to existing grid-tied 
> systems to provide some battery backup.
> 
> Thanks
> Larry
> 
> Larry Brown
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Ballpark Cost/Watt

[wirewiz]

I agree and I knew it and I  apologize. I fervently resisted doing it but my 
boss insisted and so I kind of didn't have a choice. 

Larry Liesner 

Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry

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14:13:03 
To: RE-wrenches
Reply-To: RE-wrenches 
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Ballpark Cost/Watt

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[RE-wrenches] Ballpark Cost/Watt

[wirewiz]

Hello Wrenches,

My employer has the inside track on a 1MW install on .5/12 standing seam
metal roofs (two separate roofs).  This is by far larger than anything we've
designed so I am looking for a ballpark cost/watt. I'm at around $4/watt. I
realize there are lots of variables and I am looking for help on this but
just wondering if I am in the ballpark?

Thank you.

Larry Liesner
Design and Installations
Elektron Solar, LLC
16 Ketchum St.
Westport, CT 06880
203-557-3127 (office)
203-644-2404 (cell)
203-549-0977 (fax)
wire...@gmail.com
NABCEP Certified PV Installer (# 032611-184)
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Re: [RE-wrenches] AGM battery charging, more details

[wirewiz]

I have been prolonging the temp comp. absorption voltage (no current) on start 
batteries in boats for many years without any problems.

Larry Liesner
Wirewiz
31 Lincoln St
Westport, CT 06880
Phone: 203-644-2404
wire...@gmail.com
www.wire-wiz.com




On Apr 28, 2011, at 5:52 PM, Starlight Solar, Larry Crutcher wrote:

> "Until now"?.
> For proper VRLA battery charging, once it is full, you MUST reduce the 
> voltage. It does not matter that you are opportunity charging. What if your 
> turbine is making power 24/7? The voltage will still need to be reduced after 
> a few hours or have a fixed voltage setting. I don't think you are ungrateful 
> but again I encourage you to re-read this thread and the manufacturers 
> instructions. It's all there.
>  
> Larry 
> - Original Message -
> From: Hugh
> To: RE-wrenches
> Sent: Thursday, April 28, 2011 2:04 PM
> Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] AGM battery charging, more details
> 
> I am sorry if i seem ungrateful for the many useful ideas that have been 
> voiced.  I suppose I just like to try to oversimplify things.  At present my 
> over-simplification is to say that, for opportunity charging, the only thing 
> that really matters is not to exceed the temperature-compensated absorption 
> voltage.Until now I had imagined that it was dangerous to prolong the 
> absorption voltage stage.  But maybe float is not so important as making sure 
> that the battery gets enough charge to prevent premature failure.  By the 
> time the charging current has dropped to the transition current level it is 
> too low to do any damage and can be prolonged indefinitely (until wind and 
> sun stop anyway).  This would not work in a grid connected situation, but 
> seems to fit for mine.  I am sure you guys will point out if I have got this 
> wrong.
> -- 
> Hugh Piggott
> 
> Scoraig
> http://www.scoraigwind.co.uk
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Re: [RE-wrenches] PV powered music festival

[wirewiz]

Ask SolarFest in Vermont how they did it. 

Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry

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16:56:53 
To: RE-wrenches
Reply-To: RE-wrenches 
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] PV powered music festival

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Re: [RE-wrenches] AGM battery charging, more details

[wirewiz]

For what it's worth, I use a Balmar Regulator on boats for engine alternator
charging. The Balmar times how long it takes to go from SOC to your setpoint
absorption voltage. That time determines absorption time. It does this each
and every charge. Not as accurate as measuring current but it does a good
job.

Larry Liesner

On Tue, Apr 26, 2011 at 2:06 AM, Hugh  wrote:

>  Hi Jamie,
>
> Thanks for the link. I find the Rolls/Surrette instructions puzzling.  They
> suggest a bulk phase at I1 (presumably 0.25xC20 which is fine), followed by
> an absorb phase " The charger should maintain the voltage U0 until the
> current tapers to I1"  This current I1 makes no sense to me in the second
> stage, but the graph shows current dropping to 0.012xC20 which does make
> sense and corresponds to the Fullriver instructions linked by Larry.
>
> The proper charging procedure clearly requires that the charger/regulator
> measures the charging current (not just the PV current and/or wind/hydro
> current, since there may be a load).
>
> My questions to the Wrenches List is: "What hardware do wrenches use to
> regulate the charge on an AGM battery?"  Does everyone use this Blue Sky
> Energy device?  Is it possible to use AGM batteries with a conventional
> diversion controller such as the Morningstar Tristar, and if so how do you
> determine the transition from 2.45 V/cell to 2.3 V/cell?  Morningstar offer
> a timed transition, but without knowledge of current or of SOC this is
> rather less precise.
>
> Both of the charging methods in the agm-faqs linked below (and in the
> Fullriver document) require measurement of the charging current to determine
> the correct transition from one stage to the next.  Measurement of dV/dt is
> also suggested in the case of constant current charging.  Who actually
> follows these guidelines, and can AGM batteries operate successfully
> without?
>
> thanks!
>
> Hugh
>
>
> At 18:41 -0300 25/4/11, James Surrette wrote:
>
> Content-Type: text/html; charset=US-ASCII
> Content-Description: HTML
>
> Hi Hugh,
>
>
> Here is the charging information for our AGMs.
>
>
> Please let us know if you need anything else.
>
>
> *http://www.surrette.com/content/agm-faqs*
>
>
> Regards,,
>
>
> Jamie
>
> >>> "Starlight Solar, Larry Crutcher"  4/25/2011
> 6:04 PM >>>
> Hi Hugh,
>
> An AGM battery is considered full when the current drops below a specified
> amount. Lifeline, for instance, is considered full when current is less
> than
>
> 0.5 amps per 100AH. The Blue Sky Energy IPN Pro Remote
> http://www.blueskyenergyinc.com/products/details/ipn_proremote/ will allow
> you to program the transition into float mode based on the amount of
> current
> flowing through a shunt. This can be very useful for your project that
> involves opportunity charging. Multiple charge sources can be monitored by
> the IPN Pro simultaneously. For us, it is the most ideal charger for VRLA
> batteries.
>
> Here's a link to some charging instructions for the Fullriver AGM:
> http://www.fullriver.com/products/admin/upfile/Charginginstruction.pdf
>
> Larry
>
>
> - Original Message -
> From: "Hugh" 
> To: "RE-wrenches" 
> Sent: Sunday, April 24, 2011 12:11 AM
> Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] AGM battery charging, more details
>
>
> | Thanks, Larry for the detailed response
> | >
> | >
> | >Generally, the manufacturers charge recommendations should be followed.
> |
> | Yes but the issue I have is to know when and how to switch from
> | absorption to float.  The Tristar has its own decision process but is
> | it correct?  And if not then are the settings suitable.
> |
> | >  If you take away the red paint, I believe the Rolls AGM is the
> | >Fullriver DC series battery. We started selling Fullriver last year
> | >and I was surprised to find the very high absorb voltage
> | >recommendation. For the DC400-6 (415AH) in cycle use they recommend
> | >charging at 29 to 29.8 volts and float at 27.6 @25C! That is the
> | >highest AGM voltage settings I have seen from any manufacturer.
> |
> | That's my worry.
> |
> | >
> | >My thinking about AGM's is that the float voltage and transition
> | >current are much more important factors than absorb voltage and
> | >current.
> |
> | Transition current is not in the vocabulary of the Tristar
>
> | controller.  I am not aware of a product that has this feature aside
> | from maybe some inverters.   I have read in an Outback manual that
> | you should program the absorb time based on charge current
> | measurements, but the logic of this depends on the battery being
> | 'flat' to the same degree at the start of each charge - whereas wind
> | and solar charging is not like that.
> |
> | >For most AGM's, initial charge current is almost unlimited. However,
> | >Fullriver recommends current limiting and constant voltage for the
> | >bulk/absorb cycle. Their current limit is .15 to .35*C20 rate. BTW,
> | >make sure to adjust the temp. comp to 3mV/C/C for float. Tha

Re: [RE-wrenches] NABCEP Test

[wirewiz]

Bob-O,

Sorry about the 70. I understand about not being able to tell us what we got 
wrong, those questions would circulate pretty fast, not by me of course.

I've been hard on NABCEP, especially privately to Ezra, lots of frustrations 
taken out on Ezra, but he takes it well, and follows up with thorough 
explanations about policies, etc. and understands my (and I'm sure others) 
frustrations and unlike me sometimes, is always polite. Enough sucking up.

Hey, I can't let you go without taking another shot about that ad in Home 
Power. Even if I pass this time, I will still feel that ad is unfair. We are 
all in the same industry and we are all trying to make a living here but that 
ad hits below the belt to highly qualified non certificants.

Thank you.

Larry Liesner
Wirewiz
Westport, CT
Phone: 203-644-2404
Fax: 203-557-0556
wire...@gmail.com
www.wire-wiz.com



On Apr 1, 2011, at 12:34 PM, Bob-O Schultze wrote:

> Larry,
> This also from Ezra -who, because of a bit of silliness on the part of the 
> moderator of this list- cannot post here.
> 
> "Larry,
> 
> NABCEP provides test takers with a passing score and a partial breakdown of 
> their score by exam blueprint area. It is always a bit confusing because we 
> report only on those exam blueprint areas where there are sufficient number 
> of questions for the information provided to be relevant. For example 
> informing a candidate that they scored 50% in an area where there were only 
> two questions provided little useful information but informing the same 
> candidate that they scored 50% on an area where there are ten questions 
> clearly informs them that this is an area where further study is required. 
> 
> We do not provide candidates with individual questions they missed as this 
> would have a strong negative impact on the security of the exam. If we 
> informed candidates on individual questions we would have to retire each exam 
> question we did so with which would put a huge burden of developing new 
> questions on our volunteer exam committee. It would also but a burden on the 
> exam itself as we would be continually retiring statically field proven 
> questions.
> 
> I know it is disappointing to candidates to not see the questions they 
> missed, and if I was a candidate I'd likely be frustrated as well. I also 
> know that it is simply not practical to do so and that our procedures are in 
> accordance to established and recognized testing protocols. 
> 
> Sincerely,
> 
> Ezra Auerbach
> Executive Director"
> 
> eauerb...@nabcep.org
> 
> To which I also add to replay to your last post:
> You are incorrect that 70 is always the passing grade. It can be a little 
> lower or even a little higher depending on the difficulty of that particular 
> test and if we have identified any questions which have proved to be unclear 
> or ambiguous. It takes time for our testing agency to compile that data. It 
> takes time for our test committee to re-evaluate the questions and how they 
> were answered. Lastly, each and every Certificant (not Entry Level) testing 
> results comes before the Board with the raw information and the 
> recommendations of our committee for a final decision and approval of a 
> passing score. We go to great lengths to make sure all our testing is as fair 
> and unbiased as possible.
> As Ezra points out, it would be HUGELY expensive to have to replace our 
> question pool for every test because we revealed the questions which you 
> missed to you. Surely you can see that those questions would be widely 
> circulated by the time candidates sat for the next test, making them useless.
> Bob-O
> 
> On Apr 1, 2011, at 5:57 AM, wire...@gmail.com wrote:
> 
> Ezra,
> 
> Do you follow guidelines as to the "rights and responsibilities" of test 
> takers. Do test takers have a right to see the questions they got wrong?
> 
> Larry Liesner
> Wirewiz
> Westport, CT
> Phone: 203-644-2404
> Fax: 203-557-0556
> wire...@gmail.com
> www.wire-wiz.com
> 
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Re: [RE-wrenches] NABCEP Test

[wirewiz]

Ezra,

Do you follow guidelines as to the "rights and responsibilities" of test 
takers. Do test takers have a right to see the questions they got wrong?

Larry Liesner
Wirewiz
Westport, CT
Phone: 203-644-2404
Fax: 203-557-0556
wire...@gmail.com
www.wire-wiz.com



On Apr 1, 2011, at 1:14 AM, Andrew Truitt wrote:

>  
> This is what Ezra Auerbach, Executive Director of NABCEP, has to say on the 
> matter:
>  
>  
> Hi Nick et al,
> 
> A couple of clarifications. It has always taken a month or more for NABCEP to 
> issue score reports on installer exams. Entry Level results tend to be 
> quicker and this might be a source for confusion.
> 
> I'll do my best to explain the passing score process. There is no set 
> percentage or number of correct answers. Each exam is different from the last 
> and is a mix of "field proven" and new questions. We use professional 
> psychometricians for  exam design and evaluation. They work with the subject 
> matter experts on the exam committee. After each exam they all meet and 
> review the performance of the exam with particular focus on new questions. 
> Sometimes a question performs poorly which is to say a very high percentage 
> of candidates who otherwise did well got it wrong. This sort of item is 
> flagged for committee review. They sometimes decide it was a poor question 
> and choose not to score it which is one reason for variance between exams.
> 
> The Psychometrician uses a well established and accepted statistical review 
> protocol that is designed to ensure consistency across multiple exam 
> administrations. They then present their professional recommendations to the 
> Board for their acceptance. This again is standard procedure for "Board"   
> exams.
> 
> In summary NABCEP follows well established internationally recognized scoring 
> protocols that are fully psychometrically defensible which is part of the 
> reason our PV Installer Certification has received accreditation by ANSI to 
> their 17024 standard for personnel certification. We remain the only PV 
> credentialing body in North America to have been accredited to this standard.
> 
> I hope this helps. To each and every Wrench who is waiting for their exam 
> results-I hope you passed.
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Ezra 
> 
> 
> Ezra Auerbach
> Executive Director
> NABCEP"
>  
>  
>  
> For a brighter energy future,
> 
> Andrew Truitt
> Principal
> Truitt Renewable Energy Consulting
> NABCEP Certified PV Installer™ (ID# 032407-66)
> (202) 486-7507
> http://www.linkedin.com/pub/andrew-truitt/8/622/713
> 
> <24 copy.jpg>
> 
> "Don't get me wrong: I love nuclear energy! It's just that I prefer fusion to 
> fission. And it just so happens that there's an enormous fusion reactor 
> safely banked a few million miles from us. It delivers more than we could 
> ever use in just about 8 minutes. And it's wireless!"
> 
> ~William McDonough
> 
> 
> 
>  
> On Thu, Mar 31, 2011 at 11:35 AM,  wrote:
> Nick, 
> 
> The passing grade is 70, they don't change that. I think they just wan't to 
> see if any one question was consistently answered wrong and so maybe there 
> was a problem with the question and they may decide that everyone gets that 
> question right. I would guess that rarely happens.
> 
> As far as the six weeks to wait for pass/fail notification, they keep you 
> hangin! 
> 
> They notify you by snail mail, not email. Hint: if the plain brown envelope 
> says "do not bend" on it, pop the champagne, you passed. 
> 
> Larry Liesner
> Wirewiz
> Westport, CT
> Phone: 203-644-2404
> Fax: 203-557-0556
> wire...@gmail.com
> www.wire-wiz.com
> 
> 
> 
> On Mar 31, 2011, at 12:37 PM, Jamie Johnson wrote:
> 
>> That sounds about right, a NABCEP board member told me they meet and vote on 
>> the difficulty of each question.
>> 
>> So 5-7 weeks of wondering if you have what it takes to pass.
>> 
>> When you get the email notification it will say "congratulations" or 
>> something to that effect in the subject line when you pass, not sure what it 
>> says if you don't.
>> 
>> 
>> Jamie Johnson
>> NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installer
>> NABCEP Certified PV Technical Sales Professional
>> 
>> General Manager
>> SOLAR POWER ELECTRIC
>> (941) 380 - 0098
>> EC13001765
>> www.SPEFL.com
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>> On Mar 31, 2011, at 11:42 AM, Nick Soleil  wrote:
>> 
>>> Hi wrenches:
>>> I sat for the NABCEP exam last weekend, and was surprised yesterday to 
&

Re: [RE-wrenches] NABCEP Test

[wirewiz]

Nick, 

The passing grade is 70, they don't change that. I think they just wan't to see 
if any one question was consistently answered wrong and so maybe there was a 
problem with the question and they may decide that everyone gets that question 
right. I would guess that rarely happens.

As far as the six weeks to wait for pass/fail notification, they keep you 
hangin! 

They notify you by snail mail, not email. Hint: if the plain brown envelope 
says "do not bend" on it, pop the champagne, you passed. 

Larry Liesner
Wirewiz
Westport, CT
Phone: 203-644-2404
Fax: 203-557-0556
wire...@gmail.com
www.wire-wiz.com



On Mar 31, 2011, at 12:37 PM, Jamie Johnson wrote:

> That sounds about right, a NABCEP board member told me they meet and vote on 
> the difficulty of each question.
> 
> So 5-7 weeks of wondering if you have what it takes to pass.
> 
> When you get the email notification it will say "congratulations" or 
> something to that effect in the subject line when you pass, not sure what it 
> says if you don't.
> 
> 
> Jamie Johnson
> NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installer
> NABCEP Certified PV Technical Sales Professional
> 
> General Manager
> SOLAR POWER ELECTRIC
> (941) 380 - 0098
> EC13001765
> www.SPEFL.com
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
> On Mar 31, 2011, at 11:42 AM, Nick Soleil  wrote:
> 
>> Hi wrenches:
>> I sat for the NABCEP exam last weekend, and was surprised yesterday to 
>> hear that we will not receive the exam results for another month!  I had 
>> heard that it only took a week.  What was your experience.  Also, the e-mail 
>> yesterday said that the Board has to decide what grade will be a passing 
>> grade?  Can that be true?  Does the grade get set to control the number who 
>> pass or fail?  That doesn't seem right.
>>  
>> Nick Soleil
>> Project Manager
>> Advanced Alternative Energy Solutions, LLC
>> PO Box 657
>> Petaluma, CA 94953
>> Cell: 707-321-2937
>> Office: 707-789-9537
>> Fax: 707-769-9037
>> 
>> 
>> From: Hans Frederickson 
>> To: RE-wrenches 
>> Sent: Thu, March 31, 2011 8:15:19 AM
>> Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Expansion joints
>> 
>> We used an OZ-Gedney expansion coupling for 1-1/4" EMT on a recent job. The 
>> part # is TX-125 for 1-1/4", and it would be TX-150 for 1-1/2". It is the 
>> same as the OZ-Gedney AX expansion coupling for rigid conduit, but uses a 
>> rigid nipple and EMT connectors to adapt to EMT. The assembly is UL listed.
>>  
>> -Hans
>>  
>> 
>> From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org 
>> [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of Erika 
>> Weliczko
>> Sent: Wednesday, March 30, 2011 5:54 PM
>> To: 'RE-wrenches'
>> Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Expansion joints
>> 
>> I recently used a Hubbell Killark product for rigid/IMC and was not happy 
>> with how the threads of the coupling engaged in factory conduit threads.
>>  
>> Crousehinds XJG-EMT series is intended for EMT. And is described as being 
>> used indoors or outdoors. The EMT couplings mostly seem to be compression.
>>  
>>  
>> REpower SOLUTIONS
>> www.repowersolutions.com
>> P: 216.268.2275
>> C: 216.402.4458
>>  
>> From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org 
>> [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of Jamie Johnson
>> Sent: Tuesday, March 29, 2011 2:33 PM
>> To: RE-wrenches
>> Subject: [SPAM] Re: [RE-wrenches] Expansion joints
>>  
>> Peter,
>>  
>> Cooper makes one for 1.5" emt, not sure if it is rated for wet locations or 
>> not.
>>  
>> part #XJG54 EMT, it allows for up to 4" max of conduit movement.
>>  
>> Jamie Johnson
>> NABCEP Certified PV Technical Sales Professional
>> NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installer
>>  
>> General Manager
>> SOLAR POWER ELECTRIC
>> 
>>  
>> 
>>  
>>  
>>  Original Message 
>> Subject: [RE-wrenches] Expansion joints
>> From: "Peter Parrish" ;
>> Date: Tue, March 29, 2011 1:04 pm
>> To: "'RE-wrenches'" 
>> 
>> Does anyone have information (manu and part number) for expansion joints
>> for
>> 1-1/2 EMT? I have also heard that many EJs are designed for rigid conduit
>> (RMC) and may not be directly applicable to EMT.
>> 
>> - Peter
>> 
>> Peter T. Parrish, Ph.D., President
>> California Solar Engineering, Inc.
>> 820 Cynthia Ave., Los Angeles, CA 90065
>> CA Lic. 8547

Re: [RE-wrenches] Generator and Enphase

[wirewiz]

This doesn't solve the reliability concern of a contactor but on a webinar I 
heard a rep from Schneider say the XW (with GEN and GRID AC IN's) will not 
backfeed a generator and will do it without a contactor. Is that true?

Larry Liesner
Wirewiz
Westport, CT
Phone: 203-644-2404
Fax: 203-557-0556
wire...@gmail.com
www.wire-wiz.com



On Mar 27, 2011, at 3:50 PM, Kent Osterberg wrote:

> Larry,
> 
> Yes, the PV system was straight grid-tie. The back-upped loads were only 
> covered by the generator (no battery-based inverter was involved). The ATS 
> also does the generator startup, so an inverter on the backed-upped loads 
> would require some thinking I haven't done. If the generator startup were 
> changed, my first thought would be to put the battery-based inverter on the 
> generator side of the ATS.
> 
> Kent Osterberg
> Blue Mountain Solar 
> 
> 
> 
> wire...@gmail.com wrote:
>> 
>> Kent,
>> 
>> Situations vary but this one line helps a lot, thanks.
>> 
>> So,  "To PV System" would go to the output of a grid tie inverter and "To 
>> Backed Up Loads" would go to the AC IN (transfer switch) of a battery 
>> inverter. 
>> 
>> I have been going to homes with existing 100A gen/utility ATS and wondering 
>> if I could keep it as is and be able to add a grid tie battery backup to it 
>> (using same backup loads). This schematic would work in that situation as 
>> well but wouldn't have the "To Non-Backed UP Loads" tap.
>> 
>> 
>> Larry Liesner
>> Wirewiz
>> Westport, CT
>> Phone: 203-644-2404
>> Fax: 203-557-0556
>> wire...@gmail.com
>> www.wire-wiz.com
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> On Mar 27, 2011, at 2:36 PM, Kent Osterberg wrote:
>> 
>>> Larry,
>>> 
>>> Situations vary so much that this might not be very useful. But here you 
>>> go. The attached sketch shows how we recently connected a customer that had 
>>> a backup generator and transfer switch that wasn't service rated. There 
>>> were nice gutters existing from the original install so accessing points to 
>>> tap conductors wasn't difficult. We could have connected the inverters to 
>>> the non-backed upped loads panel instead, but the utility requires an 
>>> accessible disconnect by the meter so it was more convenient to just get 
>>> into the gutter.
>>> 
>>> Kent Osterberg
>>> Blue Mountain Solar
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> wire...@gmail.com wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> Kent, Jason, or anyone else
>>>> 
>>>> Would you a have a simple one-line you could share for wiring the inverter 
>>>> on the utility side of the transfer switch? 
>>>> 
>>>> Thank you.
>>>> 
>>>> Larry Liesner
>>>> Wirewiz
>>>> Westport, CT
>>>> Phone: 203-644-2404
>>>> Fax: 203-557-0556
>>>> wire...@gmail.com
>>>> www.wire-wiz.com
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> On Mar 26, 2011, at 6:04 PM, Jason Szumlanski wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>> We’ve explored this strategy many times due to all of the whole house and 
>>>>> critical load generators in Florida. We’ve stayed away from the contactor 
>>>>> solution because of the potential for the NC contactor failing to open, 
>>>>> keeping the inverters “online” when transferred to generator power. While 
>>>>> unlikely, this is a possibility that must be considered.
>>>>>  
>>>>> The other issue presented here is that the inverters will shut down every 
>>>>> time the generator exercises.
>>>>>  
>>>>> The only sure-fire way seems to be wiring the inverter on the utility 
>>>>> side of the transfer switch, as Kent said.
>>>>>  
>>>>> Jason Szumlanski
>>>>> Fafco Solar
>>>>>  
>>>>>  
>>>>> From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org 
>>>>> [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of Kent 
>>>>> Osterberg
>>>>> Sent: Saturday, March 26, 2011 5:56 PM
>>>>> To: RE-wrenches
>>>>> Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Generator and Enphase
>>>>>  
>>>>> Mark,
>>>>> 
>>>>> I agree it is best to wire the inverters on the utility side of the 
>>>>> transfer switch. When that isn't easy, a normally closed contactor that 
>>>

Re: [RE-wrenches] Generator and Enphase

[wirewiz]

Kent,

Situations vary but this one line helps a lot, thanks.

So,  "To PV System" would go to the output of a grid tie inverter and "To 
Backed Up Loads" would go to the AC IN (transfer switch) of a battery inverter. 

I have been going to homes with existing 100A gen/utility ATS and wondering if 
I could keep it as is and be able to add a grid tie battery backup to it (using 
same backup loads). This schematic would work in that situation as well but 
wouldn't have the "To Non-Backed UP Loads" tap.


Larry Liesner
Wirewiz
Westport, CT
Phone: 203-644-2404
Fax: 203-557-0556
wire...@gmail.com
www.wire-wiz.com



On Mar 27, 2011, at 2:36 PM, Kent Osterberg wrote:

> Larry,
> 
> Situations vary so much that this might not be very useful. But here you go. 
> The attached sketch shows how we recently connected a customer that had a 
> backup generator and transfer switch that wasn't service rated. There were 
> nice gutters existing from the original install so accessing points to tap 
> conductors wasn't difficult. We could have connected the inverters to the 
> non-backed upped loads panel instead, but the utility requires an accessible 
> disconnect by the meter so it was more convenient to just get into the gutter.
> 
> Kent Osterberg
> Blue Mountain Solar
> 
> 
> 
> wire...@gmail.com wrote:
>> 
>> Kent, Jason, or anyone else
>> 
>> Would you a have a simple one-line you could share for wiring the inverter 
>> on the utility side of the transfer switch? 
>> 
>> Thank you.
>> 
>> Larry Liesner
>> Wirewiz
>> Westport, CT
>> Phone: 203-644-2404
>> Fax: 203-557-0556
>> wire...@gmail.com
>> www.wire-wiz.com
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> On Mar 26, 2011, at 6:04 PM, Jason Szumlanski wrote:
>> 
>>> We’ve explored this strategy many times due to all of the whole house and 
>>> critical load generators in Florida. We’ve stayed away from the contactor 
>>> solution because of the potential for the NC contactor failing to open, 
>>> keeping the inverters “online” when transferred to generator power. While 
>>> unlikely, this is a possibility that must be considered.
>>>  
>>> The other issue presented here is that the inverters will shut down every 
>>> time the generator exercises.
>>>  
>>> The only sure-fire way seems to be wiring the inverter on the utility side 
>>> of the transfer switch, as Kent said.
>>>  
>>> Jason Szumlanski
>>> Fafco Solar
>>>  
>>>  
>>> From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org 
>>> [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of Kent 
>>> Osterberg
>>> Sent: Saturday, March 26, 2011 5:56 PM
>>> To: RE-wrenches
>>> Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Generator and Enphase
>>>  
>>> Mark,
>>> 
>>> I agree it is best to wire the inverters on the utility side of the 
>>> transfer switch. When that isn't easy, a normally closed contactor that is 
>>> opened by generator voltage, will isolate the inverters from the generator 
>>> and allow automatic return to utility operation when the generator is off.
>>> 
>>> Kent Osterberg
>>> Blue Mountain Solar
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Mark Frye wrote:
>>> Eric,
>>>  
>>> I do not have direct experience with this but have been exploring the issue 
>>> for a project I am currently doing.
>>>  
>>> My response will be to take the trouble to interconnect the Enphase 
>>> inverters on the line side of the tranfer switch so that the inverters can 
>>> never be connected to the generator.
>>>  
>>> Here are the reasons why:
>>>  
>>> 1 - Enphase states that any such application is considered an "off-grid" 
>>> application which voids their warrenty. As I am installing under the 
>>> California CSI program, I am required to provide a 10 year manufacture 
>>> equipment warranty so I cannot afford to install the inverters in a 
>>> dis-allowed manner.
>>>  
>>> 2 - Enphase states that the waveform of the generator may be "clean" enough 
>>> such that the inverter may attempt to syncornize and connect to it as if it 
>>> were the utility. If this were to happen Enphase believes the inverters 
>>> will ruin the generator regulator before the generator ruin the inverter. I 
>>> don't want to be the one to run the experiment to find out which would be 
>>> which.
>>>  
>>> 3 - I considered 

Re: [RE-wrenches] Generator and Enphase

[wirewiz]

Kent, Jason, or anyone else

Would you a have a simple one-line you could share for wiring the inverter on 
the utility side of the transfer switch? 

Thank you.

Larry Liesner
Wirewiz
Westport, CT
Phone: 203-644-2404
Fax: 203-557-0556
wire...@gmail.com
www.wire-wiz.com



On Mar 26, 2011, at 6:04 PM, Jason Szumlanski wrote:

> We’ve explored this strategy many times due to all of the whole house and 
> critical load generators in Florida. We’ve stayed away from the contactor 
> solution because of the potential for the NC contactor failing to open, 
> keeping the inverters “online” when transferred to generator power. While 
> unlikely, this is a possibility that must be considered.
>  
> The other issue presented here is that the inverters will shut down every 
> time the generator exercises.
>  
> The only sure-fire way seems to be wiring the inverter on the utility side of 
> the transfer switch, as Kent said.
>  
> Jason Szumlanski
> Fafco Solar
>  
>  
> From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org 
> [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of Kent Osterberg
> Sent: Saturday, March 26, 2011 5:56 PM
> To: RE-wrenches
> Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Generator and Enphase
>  
> Mark,
> 
> I agree it is best to wire the inverters on the utility side of the transfer 
> switch. When that isn't easy, a normally closed contactor that is opened by 
> generator voltage, will isolate the inverters from the generator and allow 
> automatic return to utility operation when the generator is off.
> 
> Kent Osterberg
> Blue Mountain Solar
> 
> 
> 
> Mark Frye wrote:
> Eric,
>  
> I do not have direct experience with this but have been exploring the issue 
> for a project I am currently doing.
>  
> My response will be to take the trouble to interconnect the Enphase inverters 
> on the line side of the tranfer switch so that the inverters can never be 
> connected to the generator.
>  
> Here are the reasons why:
>  
> 1 - Enphase states that any such application is considered an "off-grid" 
> application which voids their warrenty. As I am installing under the 
> California CSI program, I am required to provide a 10 year manufacture 
> equipment warranty so I cannot afford to install the inverters in a 
> dis-allowed manner.
>  
> 2 - Enphase states that the waveform of the generator may be "clean" enough 
> such that the inverter may attempt to syncornize and connect to it as if it 
> were the utility. If this were to happen Enphase believes the inverters will 
> ruin the generator regulator before the generator ruin the inverter. I don't 
> want to be the one to run the experiment to find out which would be which.
>  
> 3 - I considered a contactor on the output of the inverters, such that the 
> inverters would isolated by a loss of line voltage, requiring some form of 
> reset. Ulitmately my customer agreed with me that this was an undesirable 
> constraint on the operation of an otherwise reliable grid-tied system and it 
> was not clear that this would satify the warranty issue.
>  
> Mark Frye 
> Berkeley Solar Electric Systems 
> 303 Redbud Way 
> Nevada City,  CA 95959 
> (530) 401-8024 
> www.berkeleysolar.com 
>  
>  
> From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org 
> [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of Eric Thomas
> Sent: Saturday, March 26, 2011 2:09 PM
> To: re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org
> Subject: [RE-wrenches] Generator and Enphase
> 
> I have a customer with a "30A Mechanically Interlocked Breaker" for their 
> generator feed at the main panel. My question is: If the home power is 
> transferred from utility to generator power, will the backfed PV see the 
> generator as grid power and sync up and produce? This is a nice Honda 
> Generator so the power should be fairly clean. Any experiences are 
> appreciated.
> 
> Take Care,
> 
> 
> Eric Thomas
> Solar Epiphany LLC
> (206) 919-3014
> www.solarepiphany.com
> 
>  
> ___
> List sponsored by Home Power magazine
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Mage NABCEP Training

[wirewiz]

Dean,

No experience with Mage but the two prep courses I took were a waist of time
and money (IMHO). Find yourself a one day John Wiles seminar for $100, that
is well worth it. Study, study, study. I would set aside 3-4 hours a day
until test time. Become quick and sure at referencing the NEC, they supply
you with one at the test. Buy the Casio FX260 calculator, again supplied at
the test, and become familiar with it. Use the NABCEP study guide. Get your
PV math down pat. Read Dunlop's book. I failed it because I did not study
hard enough. It's really not that difficult a test to pass (70 grade) if you
know the material. I will send you my prep material if you want to use it as
a guideline. Good luck.

I'm the guy who whined about the NABCEP ad and kind of regret doing so. My
apologies to all who studied hard and passed the test.

Larry Liesner
System Design
Elektron Solar, LLC
16 Ketchum St.
Westport, CT 06880
203-557-3127 (office)
203-644-2404 (cell)
203-549-0977 (fax)
wire...@gmail.com


On Fri, Mar 4, 2011 at 11:27 AM, Dean T. Newberry  wrote:

> Hello Wrenches,
> Does anyone have experience with Mage NABCEP course prep?
>
> Thanks in advance,
> Dean
>
> --
> Dean T. Newberry
> Talbott Solar&  Radiant Homes Inc.
> 397 B Street
> Davis, CA 95616
>
> T: 530 753-1900
> F: 530 758-2050
> E: de...@talbottsolar.com
> W: http://www.TalbottSolar.com/
>
>
> ___
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Cable tray versus RMC

[wirewiz]

Carl,

I also have a job on a brand new SS metal roof and I just did not want put any 
holes in it so I am going down the side of the building and not penetrating at 
all. But it's only 50kW. Do you have the option of no penetration? I am curious 
though as to what j-box/sealing/flashing set up you were planning on using.

Larry Liesner
Wirewiz
Westport, CT
Phone: 203-644-2404
Fax: 203-557-0556
wire...@gmail.com
www.wire-wiz.com



On Feb 14, 2011, at 2:56 PM, Carl Adams wrote:

> I have a project for 250kW system.  4/12 pitch standing seem roof  in
> the Great Lakes snow country.   My initial proposal was to get the
> source strings through the roof and inside to serviceable combiner
> locations.  This was shot down by the architect who did not want 5
> holes punched in his new roof.  So we then shift to pass thru Jboxes
> where we transition the PV wire to THWN-2 and into RMC back to the
> desired point of entry.  The electrical sub on the project has now
> proposed to reduce expense by replacing the RMC with cable trays and
> running USE-2 in the cable tray from the JBOX back to the point of
> entry.
> 
> I'd appreciate your thoughts on the use of the cable tray and USE-2 on
> the roof top.
> 
> WIth REgards
> Carl Adams
> NABCEP cert 031508-1
> ___
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Calculation of Maximum Circuit Current

[wirewiz]

Very good. Thank you Peter.

On Fri, Feb 11, 2011 at 2:44 PM, Peter Parrish <
peter.parr...@calsolareng.com> wrote:

> Short answer: DC/PV side two factors of 1.25; AC side one factor.
>
> Reasons: the common factor of 1.25 is due to the treatment of PV systems as
> continuous sources of power, the second factor of 1.25 is for the "cloud
> effect". It is entirely possible to get more than 1,000 W/m^2 on a PV
> module
> if there are large cumulus clouds that don't block the sunlight but act as
> pretty good reflectors of sunlight.
>
> As a result you need to increase Isc (times the number of combined strings
> if that is the case) by 1.56, and all computed AC currents by 1.25. Same
> goes for and switches and OCPDs.
>
> Then of course you need to compute the ampacity of the wire being used,
> taking care to apply the temperature  correction and conduit fill
> correction
> before comparing to the "maximum current" calculation.
>
> - Peter
>
>
> Peter T. Parrish, Ph.D., President
> California Solar Engineering, Inc.
> 820 Cynthia Ave., Los Angeles, CA 90065
> CA Lic. 854779, NABCEP Cert. 031806-26
> peter.parr...@calsolareng.com
> Ph 323-258-8883, Mobile 323-839-6108, Fax 323-258-8885
>
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org
> [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of
> wire...@gmail.com
> Sent: Friday, February 11, 2011 11:03 AM
> To: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org
> Subject: [RE-wrenches] Calculation of Maximum Circuit Current
>
> In studying for NABCEP certification I am a little confused about whether
> you multiply the short circuit current by 1.25 once or twice (1.56) in
> order
> to calculate maximum circuit current in determining wire size. Same for
> overcurrent protection.
>
> I have always done it twice (1.56) for both PV source circuit and PV output
> circuit. Once for over irradiance and once for continuous use.
>
> But a handout at a recent seminar that I went to totally confused me.
>
> Can anyone spell it out very clearly?
>
> Thank you.
>
> Larry Liesner
> Wirewiz
> Westport, CT
> Phone: 203-644-2404
> Fax: 203-557-0556
> wire...@gmail.com
> www.wire-wiz.com
>
>
>
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System Design
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16 Ketchum St.
Westport, CT 06880
203-557-3127 (office)
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Calculation of Maximum Circuit Current

[wirewiz]

So you pick a conductor size from 310.16 (90 deg column) and then adjust for
conditions of use. That number has to be greater than Isc x 1.25.

OCPD has to protect Isc x 1.56.

On Fri, Feb 11, 2011 at 2:18 PM, Brian Mehalic wrote:

> Maximum current is defined in 690.8(A) as Isc x 1.25.
>
> Minimum OCPD size is defined in 690.8(B) as maximum current x 1.25 (Isc x
> 1.56).  The maximum size, for PV source circuits, is the module maximum
> series fuse size.
>
> Required conductor ampacity is the greater of Isc x 1.56 or Isc x 1.25 with
> all conditions of use factors (and the conductor must be protected by the
> OCPD under conditions of use).
>
> Brian
>
> On Fri, Feb 11, 2011 at 11:03 AM,  wrote:
>
>> In studying for NABCEP certification I am a little confused about whether
>> you multiply the short circuit current by 1.25 once or twice (1.56) in order
>> to calculate maximum circuit current in determining wire size. Same for
>> overcurrent protection.
>>
>> I have always done it twice (1.56) for both PV source circuit and PV
>> output circuit. Once for over irradiance and once for continuous use.
>>
>> But a handout at a recent seminar that I went to totally confused me.
>>
>> Can anyone spell it out very clearly?
>>
>> Thank you.
>>
>> Larry Liesner
>> Wirewiz
>> Westport, CT
>> Phone: 203-644-2404
>> Fax: 203-557-0556
>> wire...@gmail.com
>> www.wire-wiz.com
>>
>>
>>
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>
>
> --
> 
> Brian Mehalic
> NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installer™
> PV Online Coordinator
> Solar Energy International
> Carbondale, CO 81623
> http://www.solarenergy.org
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-- 
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System Design
Elektron Solar, LLC
16 Ketchum St.
Westport, CT 06880
203-557-3127 (office)
203-644-2404 (cell)
203-549-0977 (fax)
wire...@gmail.com
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[RE-wrenches] Calculation of Maximum Circuit Current

[wirewiz]

In studying for NABCEP certification I am a little confused about whether you 
multiply the short circuit current by 1.25 once or twice (1.56) in order to 
calculate maximum circuit current in determining wire size. Same for 
overcurrent protection.

I have always done it twice (1.56) for both PV source circuit and PV output 
circuit. Once for over irradiance and once for continuous use. 

But a handout at a recent seminar that I went to totally confused me. 

Can anyone spell it out very clearly?

Thank you.

Larry Liesner
Wirewiz
Westport, CT
Phone: 203-644-2404
Fax: 203-557-0556
wire...@gmail.com
www.wire-wiz.com



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Re: [RE-wrenches] NABCEP is Union Based? That's news to me!

[wirewiz]

I spent about $1500 for prep course, hotel, etc to pass the entry level exam, 
so I have that. 

I spent about $2000 for prep, hotel, plane fare for the certification but I 
failed the test. I am taking it again in March. I'm studying harder this time.

I'm 62 and my memory is not what it used to be and was never good at taking 
tests. When I design I have everything on my desk to refer to so I don't have 
to rely on my memory. And I just love installing, I've been doing it on boats 
for 30 years.

I'm sorry if you think I'm whining, maybe I'll just stop. I'm just a 
competitive person and the ad ticked me off.

Larry Liesner
Wirewiz
Westport, CT
Phone: 203-644-2404
Fax: 203-557-0556
wire...@gmail.com
www.wire-wiz.com



On Feb 7, 2011, at 11:16 AM, Bill Hoffer wrote:

> Larry
>  
> My PE is not required for the majority of work I do either, but I get a 
> considerable "edge" over my competition because I have invested the time 
> energy and went through the stress of taking the exam.  It is the same way 
> with NABCEP, I have shown that I am willing to take the time, energy and 
> stress to get the qualification.  I also appreciate the NABCEP taking the 
> time and effort to promote ME in their ads. After going through the time and 
> effort, it is good to get some tangible payback, and you want to take that 
> away from me, because you do not have the time to take the exam...give me a 
> break!  You have the right to run your business and promote it as you see fit 
> and so do I!  Does any qualification mean that you know everything, of course 
> not.  If any one of us think that, then we should get out of the business.  
> Cause guess what, we are in a rapidly changing landscape where we all are 
> continually learning more and growing as an industry.  Otherwise there would 
> not be much use in this blog at all.  All an exam really means is that you 
> took the time, energy and stress to prepare for and take the exam, which to 
> me is a sign of professionalism.  It is about time our industry grows up!  Is 
> NABCEP perfect, of course not, but we all have the opportunity to help to 
> make this organization the best that it can be.  I applaud the pioneers who 
> had the vision and that were willing to invest the considerable amount of 
> time, energy and stress to pull it off.  If you can do without it , more 
> power to you, but don't whine to me about it being unfair that we want to 
> toot our horn about what we are trying to do for this industry!
> 
> Bill
> -- 
> Bill Hoffer PE
> NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installer™
> Sunergy Engineering Services PLLC
> 2504 Columbia Ave NW
> East Wenatchee WA 98802-3941
> suneng...@gmail.com (509)470-7762
> Cell(509)679-6165
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Re: [RE-wrenches] NABCEP is Union Based? That's news to me!

[wirewiz]

Bob-O,

It sounds like you have some influence as to running this ad when you stated 
"NO FREAKIN' WAY!" as a response to me asking NABCEP to either stop running it 
or alter it so it doesn't have a negative effect on non-certificants.

Obviously, from the responses to my thread, the ad offends some 
non-certificants. If NABCEP wants to continue to offend, then go ahead, 
continue to run the ad. 

Please keep in mind that the ad not only offends some non certificants but may 
also affect their business in a negative way. Offending is one thing but 
negatively affecting livelihoods is quite another. Grid-tie PV is hard enough 
to sell "as is" without the added burden of "countering the certification 
argument" as someone suggested.

I know NABCEP wants everyone to be certified and we all want to be certified 
but until we all have the time, money and the stress to do so or until it is 
actually required then please use your influence to get NABCEP to stop running 
of this ad. 

Thank you.

Larry Liesner
Wirewiz
Westport, CT
Phone: 203-644-2404
Fax: 203-557-0556
wire...@gmail.com
www.wire-wiz.com



On Feb 6, 2011, at 11:36 PM, Bob-O Schultze wrote:

> Larry, Aram, etc,
> Let me put this as succinctly as I can:
> NO FREAKIN' WAY!
> I've sat on the NABCEP BoD for many years -almost since it began. I am not an 
> IBEW or NECA member, nor have I ever been. I've had my CA C-10 since 1991 and 
> I've been a NABCEP Certified PV installer since 2003. For many years we had 
> no IBEW or NECA representation at NABCEP, but because we subscribe to the 
> "Big Tent" theory and feel that all the players need a place at the table, we 
> invited both of those organizations to participate in NABCEP some time ago. 
> We are proud that both of them -along with many others- now sit with us and 
> help to make our testing better and more relevant to today's RE markets. The 
> IBEW is a large and very powerful union, but they do not control NABCEP -not 
> even close. As long as I (and others) serve on the Board, they never will.
> I'm sorry that you have a problem with our Home Power ad, but we're not 
> backing down or changing it. Do you buy your components through distribution? 
> Your distributor is going to tout their dealers as the best in the biz and 
> they all support Certification. You bitching them out too or just us?
> While there are many highly qualified Wrenches who have not yet achieved 
> Certification or don't seek it for whatever reasons, those that have are 
> among the best in the business. Can a Certificant screw up and make a 
> mistake? Sure. Ain't nobody walking on water here. Do we have a very few 
> Certificants who gamed the system and aren't as good as they should be? 
> Probably. Are you going to stop using medical doctors because of a couple of 
> quacks? Same thing.
> Certification not for you? Fine. Be well and good luck. 
> You might want to consider, however, that Certificants command a better wage 
> or get more jobs than the average installer. While it's hard to accurately 
> put a price on that, our research indicates that Certification adds $10K-$15K 
> a year to an installer's pocket. Certification costs $400. and is good for 
> three years. Do the math.
> Peace,
> Bob-O
> 
> 
> On Feb 6, 2011, at 10:11 AM, Aram Alexander wrote:
> 
> No you are not. I have been installing grid tied PV for 10 years in ca.
> Nabcep is union based and all though it is good but it does not mean by any 
> means the best as we have to fix several nabcep installed systems.
> I personally don't like there advertising either
> 
> Aram 
> 
> On Feb 6, 2011, at 9:13 AM, wire...@gmail.com wrote:
> 
>> Hello Wrenches,
>> 
>> NABCEP has a full page ad in Home Power magazine that tells potential PV 
>> buyers to "Insist on a NABCEP Certified Installer". That's a great ad if you 
>> are certified but not so good if you are not. I know many of you are but 
>> lots of us are not yet certified. 
>> 
>> NABCEP is doing a great job to ensure that PV is installed by qualified 
>> personal but is it their job to unintentionally cause non NABCEP certified 
>> installers who are otherwise very qualified to lose business. I don't think 
>> so. 
>> 
>> I contacted NABCEP about the consequences of this ad and actually asked them 
>> to stop running it or at least tone it down so it doesn't cause installers 
>> like to me to lose business. They disagreed with me.
>> 
>> Am I being too sensitive here?
>> 
>> Thank you.
>> 
>> Larry Liesner
>> Wirewiz
>> Westport, CT
>> Phone: 203-644-2404
>> Fax: 203-557-0556
>>

[RE-wrenches] Problem with NABCEP ad

[wirewiz]

Hello Wrenches,

NABCEP has a full page ad in Home Power magazine that tells potential PV buyers 
to "Insist on a NABCEP Certified Installer". That's a great ad if you are 
certified but not so good if you are not. I know many of you are but lots of us 
are not yet certified. 

NABCEP is doing a great job to ensure that PV is installed by qualified 
personal but is it their job to unintentionally cause non NABCEP certified 
installers who are otherwise very qualified to lose business. I don't think so. 

I contacted NABCEP about the consequences of this ad and actually asked them to 
stop running it or at least tone it down so it doesn't cause installers like to 
me to lose business. They disagreed with me.

Am I being too sensitive here?

Thank you.

Larry Liesner
Wirewiz
Westport, CT
Phone: 203-644-2404
Fax: 203-557-0556
wire...@gmail.com
www.wire-wiz.com



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