Re: [RE-wrenches] #10 THWN-2
I found similar to Phil, but all the wire had thwn-2 on the spool label but not on the wire. Execpt for pink it did not have thwn-2 on the spool lable. Darryl --- On Fri, 7/23/10, Phil Undercuffler solarp...@gmail.com wrote: From: Phil Undercuffler solarp...@gmail.com Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] #10 THWN-2 To: RE-wrenches re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Date: Friday, July 23, 2010, 12:56 AM Marco, I found the same situation as what David mentions -- when we were doing a high profile job that was going to be inspected by a certain someone from Las Cruces, all the wire available from local suppliers was only physically marked as THHN / THWN, but when we dug a little deeper and found the actual spec sheets from the manufacturer we were able to determine that the wire actually was rated as THWN-2 (plus a whole alphabet soup worth of additional listings), although it wasn't marked as such. Have the vendor pull up the spec sheet on the wire brands they typically carry, and keep a couple copies in your for the inspector file. Phil Undercuffler On Thu, Jul 22, 2010 at 7:33 PM, David Brearley david.brear...@solarprofessional.com wrote: Marco, The #10 THWN wire that your local suppliers carry may be cross-listed as THWN-2. My understanding is that it is not uncommon for smaller gauge wire to carry more listings than are printed on its insulation. (If that’s not true, we’ll find out shortly from someone on the list.) If your local supplier can’t confirm this cross-listing for you, I’d try tracing back to ask their supplier or the manufacturer. David Brearley, Senior Technical Editor SolarPro magazine On 7/23/10 12:52 AM, Marco Mangelsdorf ma...@pvthawaii.com wrote: Finding that wire in these here parts is pretty much impossible. Can any of my CA. brethren/sistren provide me any leads on wholesalers in either northern or southern CA. that carry #10 THWN-2 wire? Thanks, marco ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org -Inline Attachment Follows- ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
[RE-wrenches] #10 THWN-2
We went through a similar problem with some beach communities here in SoCal. Because of the high humidity (all winter and summer mornings) they wanted THWN-2 for all conduit runs (as well as PVC instead of EMT). At first we were charged a premium for THWN-2 compared to THHN. But then we found a source at All Phase Electrical Supply Burbank CA (a part of CED) for THWN-2 #10 stranded @ $162.40/k-ft. Brand is En(m?)core Wire. THWN-2 listing is printed on the insulation. - Peter Peter T. Parrish, Ph.D., President California Solar Engineering, Inc. 820 Cynthia Ave., Los Angeles, CA 90065 CA Lic. 854779, NABCEP Cert. 031806-26 peter.parr...@calsolareng.com Ph 323-258-8883, Mobile 323-839-6108, Fax 323-258-8885 ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] #10 THWN-2
I have specified THWN-2 for years, but occasionally will not be able to source it! Sent from my iPhone On Jul 23, 2010, at 11:37 AM, Peter Parrish peter.parr...@calsolareng.com wrote: We went through a similar problem with some beach communities here in SoCal. Because of the high humidity (all winter and summer mornings) they wanted THWN-2 for all conduit runs (as well as PVC instead of EMT). At first we were charged a premium for THWN-2 compared to THHN. But then we found a source at All Phase Electrical Supply Burbank CA (a part of CED) for THWN-2 #10 stranded @ $162.40/k-ft. Brand is En(m?)core Wire. THWN-2 listing is printed on the insulation. - Peter Peter T. Parrish, Ph.D., President California Solar Engineering, Inc. 820 Cynthia Ave., Los Angeles, CA 90065 CA Lic. 854779, NABCEP Cert. 031806-26 peter.parr...@calsolareng.com Ph 323-258-8883, Mobile 323-839-6108, Fax 323-258-8885 ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] #10 THWN-2
I'm sorry to broadcast my ignorance, but: Could someone explain to me the significance of the -2 marking? Reply off-list if you wish to save bandwidth...but other List members may also be wondering... Thanks, Mick Abraham, Proprietor www.abrahamsolar.com Voice: 970-731-4675 On Fri, Jul 23, 2010 at 10:48 AM, Nick Soleil nicksoleilso...@yahoo.comwrote: I have specified THWN-2 for years, but occasionally will not be able to source it! Sent from my iPhone On Jul 23, 2010, at 11:37 AM, Peter Parrish peter.parr...@calsolareng.com wrote: We went through a similar problem with some beach communities here in SoCal. Because of the high humidity (all winter and summer mornings) they wanted THWN-2 for all conduit runs (as well as PVC instead of EMT). At first we were charged a premium for THWN-2 compared to THHN. But then we found a source at All Phase Electrical Supply Burbank CA (a part of CED) for THWN-2 #10 stranded @ $162.40/k-ft. Brand is En(m?)core Wire. THWN-2 listing is printed on the insulation. - Peter Peter T. Parrish, Ph.D., President California Solar Engineering, Inc. 820 Cynthia Ave., Los Angeles, CA 90065 CA Lic. 854779, NABCEP Cert. 031806-26 peter.parr...@calsolareng.competer.parr...@calsolareng.com Ph 323-258-8883, Mobile 323-839-6108, Fax 323-258-8885 ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] #10 THWN-2
-2 indicates that the insulation is rated for hot wet; that is that it is rated for 90C and wet conditions. See NEC Table 310.13(A). We also use Encore Wire. The sticker on the spool has THHN in big print, but then in small print below it says Type MTW or THHN or THWN-2. The insulation also says Type MTW or THHN or THWN-2. Mark Mark Westbrock NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installer NM ER-1J Journeyman Electrician Positive Energy, Inc. office: 575-524-2030 cell: 575-640-2432 westbr...@positiveenergysolar.com www.positiveenergysolar.com Mick Abraham wrote: I'm sorry to broadcast my ignorance, but: Could someone explain to me the significance of the -2 marking? Reply off-list if you wish to save bandwidth...but other List members may also be wondering... Thanks, Mick Abraham, Proprietor www.abrahamsolar.com http://www.abrahamsolar.com Voice: 970-731-4675 On Fri, Jul 23, 2010 at 10:48 AM, Nick Soleil nicksoleilso...@yahoo.com mailto:nicksoleilso...@yahoo.com wrote: I have specified THWN-2 for years, but occasionally will not be able to source it! Sent from my iPhone On Jul 23, 2010, at 11:37 AM, Peter Parrish peter.parr...@calsolareng.com mailto:peter.parr...@calsolareng.com wrote: We went through a similar problem with some beach communities here in SoCal. Because of the high humidity (all winter and summer mornings) they wanted THWN-2 for all conduit runs (as well as PVC instead of EMT). At first we were charged a premium for THWN-2 compared to THHN. But then we found a source at All Phase Electrical Supply Burbank CA (a part of CED) for THWN-2 #10 stranded @ $162.40/k-ft. Brand is En(m?)core Wire. THWN-2 listing is printed on the insulation. - Peter Peter T. Parrish, Ph.D., President California Solar Engineering, Inc. 820 Cynthia Ave., Los Angeles, CA 90065 CA Lic. 854779, NABCEP Cert. 031806-26 peter.parr...@calsolareng.com mailto:peter.parr...@calsolareng.com Ph 323-258-8883, Mobile 323-839-6108, Fax 323-258-8885 ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org mailto:RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org http://www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org mailto:RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org http://www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] #10 THWN-2
Mick, THWN-2 is 90°C rated per Table 310.16. This is key for conductors in conduit on a roof. On a roof in full sun ambient temperatures are such that a 75°C rated conductor will have a severely diminished allowable ampacity, if any allowable ampacity. Jollily, David On 7/23/10 11:52 AM, Mick Abraham m...@abrahamsolar.com wrote: I'm sorry to broadcast my ignorance, but: Could someone explain to me the significance of the -2 marking? Reply off-list if you wish to save bandwidth...but other List members may also be wondering... Thanks, Mick Abraham, Proprietor www.abrahamsolar.com http://www.abrahamsolar.com Voice: 970-731-4675 On Fri, Jul 23, 2010 at 10:48 AM, Nick Soleil nicksoleilso...@yahoo.com wrote: I have specified THWN-2 for years, but occasionally will not be able to source it! Sent from my iPhone On Jul 23, 2010, at 11:37 AM, Peter Parrish peter.parr...@calsolareng.com wrote: We went through a similar problem with some beach communities here in SoCal. Because of the high humidity (all winter and summer mornings) they wanted THWN-2 for all conduit runs (as well as PVC instead of EMT). At first we were charged a premium for THWN-2 compared to THHN. But then we found a source at All Phase Electrical Supply Burbank CA (a part of CED) for THWN-2 #10 stranded @ $162.40/k-ft. Brand is En(m?)core Wire. THWN-2 listing is printed on the insulation. - Peter Peter T. Parrish, Ph.D., President California Solar Engineering, Inc. 820 Cynthia Ave., Los Angeles, CA 90065 CA Lic. 854779, NABCEP Cert. 031806-26 mailto:peter.parr...@calsolareng.com peter.parr...@calsolareng.com Ph 323-258-8883, Mobile 323-839-6108, Fax 323-258-8885 ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: mailto:RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org http://www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] #10 THWN-2
The dash-two, as an appendage to THWN indicates that the wire, normally rated for dry and wet locations and 75 deg C, is now rated dry/wet up to 90 deg C. - Peter Peter T. Parrish, Ph.D., President California Solar Engineering, Inc. 820 Cynthia Ave., Los Angeles, CA 90065 CA Lic. 854779, NABCEP Cert. 031806-26 peter.parr...@calsolareng.com Ph 323-258-8883, Mobile 323-839-6108, Fax 323-258-8885 From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of Mick Abraham Sent: Friday, July 23, 2010 9:52 AM To: RE-wrenches Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] #10 THWN-2 I'm sorry to broadcast my ignorance, but: Could someone explain to me the significance of the -2 marking? Reply off-list if you wish to save bandwidth...but other List members may also be wondering... Thanks, Mick Abraham, Proprietor www.abrahamsolar.com Voice: 970-731-4675 On Fri, Jul 23, 2010 at 10:48 AM, Nick Soleil nicksoleilso...@yahoo.com wrote: I have specified THWN-2 for years, but occasionally will not be able to source it! Sent from my iPhone On Jul 23, 2010, at 11:37 AM, Peter Parrish peter.parr...@calsolareng.com wrote: We went through a similar problem with some beach communities here in SoCal. Because of the high humidity (all winter and summer mornings) they wanted THWN-2 for all conduit runs (as well as PVC instead of EMT). At first we were charged a premium for THWN-2 compared to THHN. But then we found a source at All Phase Electrical Supply Burbank CA (a part of CED) for THWN-2 #10 stranded @ $162.40/k-ft. Brand is En(m?)core Wire. THWN-2 listing is printed on the insulation. - Peter Peter T. Parrish, Ph.D., President California Solar Engineering, Inc. 820 Cynthia Ave., Los Angeles, CA 90065 CA Lic. 854779, NABCEP Cert. 031806-26 peter.parr...@calsolareng.com Ph 323-258-8883, Mobile 323-839-6108, Fax 323-258-8885 ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] #10 THWN-2
Mick, -2 means 90 degrees C rather than 75. THWN-2 thus means that it is wet-rated at 90C. That is generally considered Code for arrays, such as if it is run in NM flex conduit to a traditional module j-box. The j-box area may be considered to be able to get hot enough to require 90C rated wire. Nowadays with MC-type module leads, combiner boxes aren't subject to the same high temperatures on the THWN as when they terminate in module j-boxes, and the higher temperature rating isn't generally necessary. Much of what I'm saying here is older John Wiles stuff. Allan Allan Sindelar Allan@positiveenergysolar.com NABCEP Certified Photovoltaic Installer EE98J Journeyman Electrician Positive Energy, Inc. 3201 Calle Marie Santa Fe, New Mexico 87507 505 424-1112 www.positiveenergysolar.com On 7/23/2010 10:52 AM, Mick Abraham wrote: I'm sorry to broadcast my ignorance, but: Could someone explain to me the significance of the -2 marking? Reply off-list if you wish to save bandwidth...but other List members may also be wondering... Thanks, Mick Abraham, Proprietor www.abrahamsolar.com Voice: 970-731-4675 On Fri, Jul 23, 2010 at 10:48 AM, Nick Soleil nicksoleilso...@yahoo.com wrote: I have specified THWN-2 for years, but occasionally will not be able to source it! Sent from my iPhone On Jul 23, 2010, at 11:37 AM, "Peter Parrish" peter.parr...@calsolareng.com wrote: We went through a similar problem with some beach communities here in SoCal. Because of the high humidity (all winter and summer mornings) they wanted THWN-2 for all conduit runs (as well as PVC instead of EMT). At first we were charged a premium for THWN-2 compared to THHN. But then we found a source at All Phase Electrical Supply Burbank CA (a part of CED) for THWN-2 #10 stranded @ $162.40/k-ft. Brand is En(m?)core Wire. THWN-2 listing is printed on the insulation. - Peter Peter T. Parrish, Ph.D., President California Solar Engineering, Inc. 820 Cynthia Ave., Los Angeles, CA 90065 CA Lic. 854779, NABCEP Cert. 031806-26 peter.parr...@calsolareng.com Ph 323-258-8883, Mobile 323-839-6108, Fax 323-258-8885 ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette:
Re: [RE-wrenches] #10 THWN-2
Just a minor point: the dash-two appendage brings a wet-rated wire from 75 deg C to 90 deg C. If you are not in a locale that argues for wet-rated wire and your specific application does not argue for wet-rated wire, IMHO it is perfectly acceptable to use THHN wire (90 deg C rated for damp environments) for outdoors, attics and other extreme temperature conditions. Of course you have to use good 3R boxes and rain-tight EMT connectors. For us, it is easier to purchase and inventory just one wire type for conduit runs, and we usually get the same price for THWN-2 as we do for THHN, or close enough. In fact we almost never use #12 either for the same reason. Peter T. Parrish, Ph.D., President California Solar Engineering, Inc. 820 Cynthia Ave., Los Angeles, CA 90065 CA Lic. 854779, NABCEP Cert. 031806-26 peter.parr...@calsolareng.com Ph 323-258-8883, Mobile 323-839-6108, Fax 323-258-8885 From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of Allan Sindelar Sent: Friday, July 23, 2010 10:04 AM To: RE-wrenches Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] #10 THWN-2 Mick, -2 means 90 degrees C rather than 75. THWN-2 thus means that it is wet-rated at 90C. That is generally considered Code for arrays, such as if it is run in NM flex conduit to a traditional module j-box. The j-box area may be considered to be able to get hot enough to require 90C rated wire. Nowadays with MC-type module leads, combiner boxes aren't subject to the same high temperatures on the THWN as when they terminate in module j-boxes, and the higher temperature rating isn't generally necessary. Much of what I'm saying here is older John Wiles stuff. Allan Allan Sindelar al...@positiveenergysolar.com NABCEP Certified Photovoltaic Installer EE98J Journeyman Electrician Positive Energy, Inc. 3201 Calle Marie Santa Fe, New Mexico 87507 505 424-1112 www.positiveenergysolar.com On 7/23/2010 10:52 AM, Mick Abraham wrote: I'm sorry to broadcast my ignorance, but: Could someone explain to me the significance of the -2 marking? Reply off-list if you wish to save bandwidth...but other List members may also be wondering... Thanks, Mick Abraham, Proprietor www.abrahamsolar.com Voice: 970-731-4675 On Fri, Jul 23, 2010 at 10:48 AM, Nick Soleil nicksoleilso...@yahoo.com wrote: I have specified THWN-2 for years, but occasionally will not be able to source it! Sent from my iPhone On Jul 23, 2010, at 11:37 AM, Peter Parrish peter.parr...@calsolareng.com wrote: We went through a similar problem with some beach communities here in SoCal. Because of the high humidity (all winter and summer mornings) they wanted THWN-2 for all conduit runs (as well as PVC instead of EMT). At first we were charged a premium for THWN-2 compared to THHN. But then we found a source at All Phase Electrical Supply Burbank CA (a part of CED) for THWN-2 #10 stranded @ $162.40/k-ft. Brand is En(m?)core Wire. THWN-2 listing is printed on the insulation. - Peter Peter T. Parrish, Ph.D., President California Solar Engineering, Inc. 820 Cynthia Ave., Los Angeles, CA 90065 CA Lic. 854779, NABCEP Cert. 031806-26 peter.parr...@calsolareng.com Ph 323-258-8883, Mobile 323-839-6108, Fax 323-258-8885 ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re
Re: [RE-wrenches] #10 THWN-2
Peter, There was a change in the 2008 NEC (I know - CA is just getting to this Code cycle) that won't allow THHN inside conduit when the conduit is installed in wet locations, 300.9 (300.5 for underground): 300.9 Raceways in Wet Locations Above Grade. Where raceways are installed in wet locations abovegrade, the interior of these raceways shall be considered to be a wet location. Insulated conductors and cables installed in raceways in wet locations abovegrade shall comply with 310.8(C). And 310.8(C): (C) Wet Locations. Insulated conductors and cables used in wet locations shall comply with one of the following: (1) Be moisture-impervious metal-sheathed (2) Be types MTW, RHW, RHW-2, TW, THW, THW-2, THHW, THWN, THWN-2, XHHW, XHHW-2, ZW (3) Be of a type listed for use in wet locations So for an attic run, it wouldn't be considered a wet location but for the outdoor runs it would be. And since so many runs will be exposed to both types of locations, it only makes sense to me to keep it all THWN-2. I like your position of only stocking one wire type to reduce the possibility of confusion in the field. Ryan -Original Message- From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of Peter Parrish Sent: Friday, July 23, 2010 11:28 AM To: al...@positiveenergysolar.com; 'RE-wrenches' Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] #10 THWN-2 Just a minor point: the dash-two appendage brings a wet-rated wire from 75 deg C to 90 deg C. If you are not in a locale that argues for wet-rated wire and your specific application does not argue for wet-rated wire, IMHO it is perfectly acceptable to use THHN wire (90 deg C rated for damp environments) for outdoors, attics and other extreme temperature conditions. Of course you have to use good 3R boxes and rain-tight EMT connectors. For us, it is easier to purchase and inventory just one wire type for conduit runs, and we usually get the same price for THWN-2 as we do for THHN, or close enough. In fact we almost never use #12 either for the same reason. ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] #10 THWN-2
Dual rated thhn / thwn complies. And every reel I've ever bought is dual rated. I've never seen single-rated thhn. Kirk Herander Vermont Solar Engineering 802.863.1202 NABCEP(tm) Certified Solar Installer NYSERDA-eligible Installer VT Solar Incentive Program Partner -Original Message- From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of Ryan Mayfield Sent: Friday, July 23, 2010 3:31 PM To: 'RE-wrenches' Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] #10 THWN-2 Peter, There was a change in the 2008 NEC (I know - CA is just getting to this Code cycle) that won't allow THHN inside conduit when the conduit is installed in wet locations, 300.9 (300.5 for underground): 300.9 Raceways in Wet Locations Above Grade. Where raceways are installed in wet locations abovegrade, the interior of these raceways shall be considered to be a wet location. Insulated conductors and cables installed in raceways in wet locations abovegrade shall comply with 310.8(C). And 310.8(C): (C) Wet Locations. Insulated conductors and cables used in wet locations shall comply with one of the following: (1) Be moisture-impervious metal-sheathed (2) Be types MTW, RHW, RHW-2, TW, THW, THW-2, THHW, THWN, THWN-2, XHHW, XHHW-2, ZW (3) Be of a type listed for use in wet locations So for an attic run, it wouldn't be considered a wet location but for the outdoor runs it would be. And since so many runs will be exposed to both types of locations, it only makes sense to me to keep it all THWN-2. I like your position of only stocking one wire type to reduce the possibility of confusion in the field. Ryan -Original Message- From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of Peter Parrish Sent: Friday, July 23, 2010 11:28 AM To: al...@positiveenergysolar.com; 'RE-wrenches' Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] #10 THWN-2 Just a minor point: the dash-two appendage brings a wet-rated wire from 75 deg C to 90 deg C. If you are not in a locale that argues for wet-rated wire and your specific application does not argue for wet-rated wire, IMHO it is perfectly acceptable to use THHN wire (90 deg C rated for damp environments) for outdoors, attics and other extreme temperature conditions. Of course you have to use good 3R boxes and rain-tight EMT connectors. For us, it is easier to purchase and inventory just one wire type for conduit runs, and we usually get the same price for THWN-2 as we do for THHN, or close enough. In fact we almost never use #12 either for the same reason. ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
[RE-wrenches] #10 THWN-2
I've been looking hard to see what manufacturers produce this kinda elusive #10 THHN/THWN-2 wire. United Copper Industries (Texas) does. I have a handy spec sheet from them that I can email anyone who's interested. marco ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
[RE-wrenches] #10 THWN-2
Finding that wire in these here parts is pretty much impossible. Can any of my CA. brethren/sistren provide me any leads on wholesalers in either northern or southern CA. that carry #10 THWN-2 wire? Thanks, marco ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] #10 THWN-2
Marco, The #10 THWN wire that your local suppliers carry may be cross-listed as THWN-2. My understanding is that it is not uncommon for smaller gauge wire to carry more listings than are printed on its insulation. (If that¹s not true, we¹ll find out shortly from someone on the list.) If your local supplier can¹t confirm this cross-listing for you, I¹d try tracing back to ask their supplier or the manufacturer. David Brearley, Senior Technical Editor SolarPro magazine On 7/23/10 12:52 AM, Marco Mangelsdorf ma...@pvthawaii.com wrote: Finding that wire in these here parts is pretty much impossible. Can any of my CA. brethren/sistren provide me any leads on wholesalers in either northern or southern CA. that carry #10 THWN-2 wire? Thanks, marco ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] #10 THWN-2
THWN-2 smaller than #8 is hard to find but I hear http://www.encorewire.com/site_flash/index.html makes it and that Graybar sells it. When I asked Southwire about it about two years ago, I got a collective huh? Original Message Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] #10 THWN-2 From: David Brearley david.brear...@solarprofessional.com To: RE-wrenches re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Date: 2010/7/22 21:33 Marco, The #10 THWN wire that your local suppliers carry may be cross-listed as THWN-2. My understanding is that it is not uncommon for smaller gauge wire to carry more listings than are printed on its insulation. (If that’s not true, we’ll find out shortly from someone on the list.) If your local supplier can’t confirm this cross-listing for you, I’d try tracing back to ask their supplier or the manufacturer. David Brearley, Senior Technical Editor /SolarPro/ magazine On 7/23/10 12:52 AM, Marco Mangelsdorf ma...@pvthawaii.com wrote: Finding that wire in these here parts is pretty much impossible. Can any of my CA. brethren/sistren provide me any leads on wholesalers in either northern or southern CA. that carry #10 THWN-2 wire? Thanks, marco ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] #10 THWN-2
Marco, I found the same situation as what David mentions -- when we were doing a high profile job that was going to be inspected by a certain someone from Las Cruces, all the wire available from local suppliers was only physically marked as THHN / THWN, but when we dug a little deeper and found the actual spec sheets from the manufacturer we were able to determine that the wire actually was rated as THWN-2 (plus a whole alphabet soup worth of additional listings), although it wasn't marked as such. Have the vendor pull up the spec sheet on the wire brands they typically carry, and keep a couple copies in your for the inspector file. Phil Undercuffler On Thu, Jul 22, 2010 at 7:33 PM, David Brearley david.brear...@solarprofessional.com wrote: Marco, The #10 THWN wire that your local suppliers carry may be cross-listed as THWN-2. My understanding is that it is not uncommon for smaller gauge wire to carry more listings than are printed on its insulation. (If that’s not true, we’ll find out shortly from someone on the list.) If your local supplier can’t confirm this cross-listing for you, I’d try tracing back to ask their supplier or the manufacturer. David Brearley, Senior Technical Editor *SolarPro* magazine On 7/23/10 12:52 AM, Marco Mangelsdorf ma...@pvthawaii.com wrote: Finding that wire in these here parts is pretty much impossible. Can any of my CA. brethren/sistren provide me any leads on wholesalers in either northern or southern CA. that carry #10 THWN-2 wire? Thanks, marco -- ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
