[RE-wrenches] NRTL certification question

[Allan Sindelar]

Wrenches,
And now for something completely different... are TUV Rheinland or CE 
module certifications valid yet in the US?


I was called to consult for an off grid client who had purchased 40 250W 
generic Chinese modules through a friend who got them on Ebay... yeah, 
right. I got to be the one to tell him that I didn't think his $6,000 
purchase ($.60/watt) could be used in a permitted/inspected system, as 
the modules lacked the proper NRTL certification on the label. I sure 
hope for his sake that I'm wrong, and I said I would ask here.


These are Qunsheng New Energy, model QS-250P. No UL, ETL, CSA 
certification, just the ones above plus ISO.


Where can one find a list of NRTLs?

Thank you,
Allan
--

*Allan Sindelar*
al...@sindelarsolar.com 
NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional
NABCEP Certified Technical Sales Professional
New Mexico EE98J Journeyman Electrician
Founder (Retired), Positive Energy, Inc.
*505 780-2738 cell*

**

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[RE-wrenches] NRTL certification question

[Isaac Opalinsky]

Allan,

OSHA maintains the list of NRTL’s: 
https://www.osha.gov/dts/otpca/nrtl/nrtllist.html.

TUV Rheinland is included, but CE is not a NRTL – it is a manufacturer’s 
declaration of conformity (literally translated is European Conformity) to 
European requirements for product conformity.  As a manufacturers’ declaration, 
it is not a third party certification.  I’d stay away from products that are 
CE, and not UL, TUV, CSA, etc.

Isaac Opalinsky | Technical Sales
77 Rio Robles, San Jose, CA 95134 | office 443-569-3476 | mobile 443-277-6286 | 
isaac.opalin...@sunpower.com<mailto:isaac.opalin...@sunpower.com>
[sp_2014_logo_black_orange_CMYK-01]
IREC Certified Master Instructor | IREC_10055_AM_PV


From: RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf 
Of Allan Sindelar
Sent: Friday, August 26, 2016 2:56 PM
To: RE-wrenches 
Subject: [RE-wrenches] NRTL certification question

Wrenches,
And now for something completely different... are TUV Rheinland or CE module 
certifications valid yet in the US?

I was called to consult for an off grid client who had purchased 40 250W 
generic Chinese modules through a friend who got them on Ebay... yeah, right. I 
got to be the one to tell him that I didn't think his $6,000 purchase 
($.60/watt) could be used in a permitted/inspected system, as the modules 
lacked the proper NRTL certification on the label. I sure hope for his sake 
that I'm wrong, and I said I would ask here.

These are Qunsheng New Energy, model QS-250P. No UL, ETL, CSA certification, 
just the ones above plus ISO.

Where can one find a list of NRTLs?

Thank you,
Allan
--

Allan Sindelar
al...@sindelarsolar.com<mailto:al...@sindelarsolar.com>
NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional
NABCEP Certified Technical Sales Professional
New Mexico EE98J Journeyman Electrician
Founder (Retired), Positive Energy, Inc.
505 780-2738 cell


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[RE-wrenches] NRTL certification question

[Steven Lawrence]

Just to expand on this, the NRTL has to test to the specific UL standard.
However, if you look at the definition of "listed" in the NEC, it states
"equipment, materials, or services included in a list published by an
organization that is acceptable to the AHJ...).  I have heard of some
jurisdictions in CA that do not accept CSA, Tuv, ETL, etc and will only
accept UL as a testing agency.

BTW it is possible to do field certification of equipment, although it's
probably more cost effective  to purchase new modules.


Date: Fri, 26 Aug 2016 19:05:53 +
> From: Isaac Opalinsky 
> To: RE-wrenches 
> Subject: [RE-wrenches]  NRTL certification question
> Message-ID:
>  namprd07.prod.outlook.com>
>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> Allan,
>
> OSHA maintains the list of NRTL?s: https://www.osha.gov/dts/
> otpca/nrtl/nrtllist.html.
>
> TUV Rheinland is included, but CE is not a NRTL ? it is a manufacturer?s
> declaration of conformity (literally translated is European Conformity) to
> European requirements for product conformity.  As a manufacturers?
> declaration, it is not a third party certification.  I?d stay away from
> products that are CE, and not UL, TUV, CSA, etc.
>
> Isaac Opalinsky | Technical Sales
> 77 Rio Robles, San Jose, CA 95134 | office 443-569-3476 | mobile
> 443-277-6286 | isaac.opalin...@sunpower.com<mailto:isaac.opalinsky@
> sunpower.com>
> [sp_2014_logo_black_orange_CMYK-01]
> IREC Certified Master Instructor | IREC_10055_AM_PV
>
> ***
>
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Re: [RE-wrenches] NRTL certification question

[Jerry Shafer]

Wrenches
No UL or ETL they sould like for off grid non permitted non warranty
systems, years ago they used to be called "red label"
Jerry

On Aug 26, 2016 8:56 AM, "Allan Sindelar"  wrote:

> Wrenches,
> And now for something completely different... are TUV Rheinland or CE
> module certifications valid yet in the US?
>
> I was called to consult for an off grid client who had purchased 40 250W
> generic Chinese modules through a friend who got them on Ebay... yeah,
> right. I got to be the one to tell him that I didn't think his $6,000
> purchase ($.60/watt) could be used in a permitted/inspected system, as the
> modules lacked the proper NRTL certification on the label. I sure hope for
> his sake that I'm wrong, and I said I would ask here.
>
> These are Qunsheng New Energy, model QS-250P. No UL, ETL, CSA
> certification, just the ones above plus ISO.
>
> Where can one find a list of NRTLs?
>
> Thank you,
> Allan
> --
>
> *Allan Sindelar*
> al...@sindelarsolar.com
> NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional
> NABCEP Certified Technical Sales Professional
> New Mexico EE98J Journeyman Electrician
> Founder (Retired), Positive Energy, Inc.
> *505 780-2738 <505%20780-2738> cell*
>
>
>
> ___
> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance
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> List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org
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> Change listserver email address & settings:
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> org/maillist.html
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> List rules & etiquette:
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> www.members.re-wrenches.org
>
>
>
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Re: [RE-wrenches] NRTL certification question

[Brian Teitelbaum]

Hi Allan,



TUV is now an accepted NRTL, but the equipment still has to Listed to
applicable UL Standards to mean anything. Testing only to European
standards doesn’t cut it here.



“CE” is meaningless here also.



Brian Teitelbaum

AEE Solar



*From:* RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] *On
Behalf Of *Allan Sindelar
*Sent:* Friday, August 26, 2016 11:56 AM
*To:* RE-wrenches
*Subject:* [RE-wrenches] NRTL certification question



Wrenches,
And now for something completely different... are TUV Rheinland or CE
module certifications valid yet in the US?

I was called to consult for an off grid client who had purchased 40 250W
generic Chinese modules through a friend who got them on Ebay... yeah,
right. I got to be the one to tell him that I didn't think his $6,000
purchase ($.60/watt) could be used in a permitted/inspected system, as the
modules lacked the proper NRTL certification on the label. I sure hope for
his sake that I'm wrong, and I said I would ask here.

These are Qunsheng New Energy, model QS-250P. No UL, ETL, CSA
certification, just the ones above plus ISO.

Where can one find a list of NRTLs?

Thank you,
Allan

-- 

*Allan Sindelar*
*al...@sindelarsolar.com* 
NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional
NABCEP Certified Technical Sales Professional
New Mexico EE98J Journeyman Electrician
Founder (Retired), Positive Energy, Inc.
*505 780-2738 cell*
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Re: [RE-wrenches] NRTL certification question

[Allan Sindelar]

Jerry, it is for off grid, but that's not synonymous with non permitted. 
This is a house being built with standard permits. Unlisted modules are 
only appropriate for "unpermitted owner-built homes too remote to be 
discovered by the AHJs". It's a specific category of its own.


We have determined that the specific TUV label on these modules isn't 
valid in the US. Buyer beware! $.60/watt!

Allan

*Allan Sindelar*
al...@sindelarsolar.com 
NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional
NABCEP Certified Technical Sales Professional
New Mexico EE98J Journeyman Electrician
Founder (Retired), Positive Energy, Inc.
*505 780-2738 cell*

**

On 8/26/2016 1:11 PM, Jerry Shafer wrote:


Wrenches
No UL or ETL they sould like for off grid non permitted non warranty 
systems, years ago they used to be called "red label"

Jerry




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Re: [RE-wrenches] NRTL certification question

[billbrooks7]

Steven,

 

Although you are correct that OSHA certifies NRTLs for specific test standards, 
I have not run into jurisdictions in California that reject products listed to 
UL standards by ETL, TUV, and CSA. There have been specific cases where the 
County and City of LA have questioned various products, but to say it was 
because it was coming from another lab is difficult to prove. The City of LA 
has rejected UL products, so their approach has more to do with the fact that 
they have their own lab so they like the revenue that they receive from 
testing—very different issue.

 

I just don’t want rumors to start that some CA AHJs only accept UL—that is 
hearsay and not factual.

 

Bill.

 

From: RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf 
Of Steven Lawrence
Sent: Monday, August 29, 2016 8:48 AM
To: re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org
Subject: [RE-wrenches] NRTL certification question

 

Just to expand on this, the NRTL has to test to the specific UL standard.  
However, if you look at the definition of "listed" in the NEC, it states 
"equipment, materials, or services included in a list published by an 
organization that is acceptable to the AHJ...).  I have heard of some 
jurisdictions in CA that do not accept CSA, Tuv, ETL, etc and will only accept 
UL as a testing agency.

BTW it is possible to do field certification of equipment, although it's 
probably more cost effective  to purchase new modules.

 

Date: Fri, 26 Aug 2016 19:05:53 +
From: Isaac Opalinsky mailto:david.opalin...@sunpower.com> >
To: RE-wrenches mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> >
Subject: [RE-wrenches]  NRTL certification question
Message-ID:

mailto:cy1pr07mb2184a207c09e66f9f5ed7e1188...@cy1pr07mb2184.namprd07.prod.outlook.com>
 >

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

Allan,

OSHA maintains the list of NRTL?s: 
https://www.osha.gov/dts/otpca/nrtl/nrtllist.html.

TUV Rheinland is included, but CE is not a NRTL ? it is a manufacturer?s 
declaration of conformity (literally translated is European Conformity) to 
European requirements for product conformity.  As a manufacturers? declaration, 
it is not a third party certification.  I?d stay away from products that are 
CE, and not UL, TUV, CSA, etc.

Isaac Opalinsky | Technical Sales
77 Rio Robles, San Jose, CA 95134 | office 443-569-3476   | 
mobile 443-277-6286   | isaac.opalin...@sunpower.com 
<mailto:isaac.opalin...@sunpower.com> <mailto:isaac.opalin...@sunpower.com 
<mailto:isaac.opalin...@sunpower.com> >
[sp_2014_logo_black_orange_CMYK-01]
IREC Certified Master Instructor | IREC_10055_AM_PV

***

 

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