Re: [RE-wrenches] 24V Module Query
Ray: I believe either a MPPT or PWM charge controller will work. I say I believe because IndOp is new and we actually designed it to work with MPPT inverters. It should work with PWM as well but I have only tried it with one PWM charge controller (Morningstar) and that worked fine. Until we get some experience out there I don't want to over promise but in theory it should be fine. Another option is to use IndOp connected directly to the battery and a separate diversion regulator. Since failure of a diversion regulator can create serious problems some backup is highly recommended (also required by NEC). Best Regards, John Berdner General Manager, North America [cid:image001.jpg@01CDFAC6.C81684C0] SolarEdge Technologies, Inc. 3347 Gateway Boulevard, Fremont CA 94538 USA (*Please note of our new address.) T: 510.498.3200, X 747 M: 530.277.4894 From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of Ray Walters Sent: Thursday, January 24, 2013 2:29 PM To: RE-wrenches Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] 24V Module Query Hi John; Would we not need an MPPT controller, just a regular PWM type, then? That might be a solution for these democracy arrays. Ray On 1/24/2013 3:16 PM, John Berdner wrote: Alan: You can also use one of our Optimizers with IndOp. This will buck of boost the module voltage to match the battery voltage. Still would need some form of charge control to protect the battery but this would provide an easy way to add new 60 cell modules to an existing 72 cell array. Feel free to contact me if you have any questions. Best Regards, John Berdner General Manager, North America [cid:image001.jpg@01CDFAC6.C81684C0] SolarEdge Technologies, Inc. 3347 Gateway Boulevard, Fremont CA 94538 USA (*Please note of our new address.) T: 510.498.3200, X 747 M: 530.277.4894 From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.orgmailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of Allan Sindelar Sent: Thursday, January 24, 2013 11:35 AM To: RE-wrenches Subject: [RE-wrenches] 24V Module Query Wrenches, We have years of installing 36-cell (12V) and 72-cell (24V) modules for battery-based customers. Most of our systems are 24V or 48V nominal. Over the last few years, sources of conventionally-sized 72-cell modules have dried up - as cells have increased in size, most modules and most newer factory production lines have either gone to 60-cell (20V) modules, or 72 cells in 300+ watt ranges. It seems that the formerly common 72 cell, 24V modules in the 150-190 watt range, which are well-suited to integrating into existing systems, are no longer available. 60-cell modules in the common 220-250 watt range can't be added to an existing system unless run through a dedicated MPPT charge controller that can convert voltage, such as an FM, XW60, Classic or TriStar; the added cost of any of these controllers cancels out the low prices of the modules. Who continues to manufacture 72-cell modules? Which distributors carry them? I am aware of three options - are there more? - Sunpower makes one module in the 245 watt range that can be used negative ground, but it's very high efficiency (and with high Voc/Vmp as well) and very pricey; - Sanyo/Panasonic has 225-240 watt modules, but also quite premium and pricey; - Ameresco bought the rights to manufacture many former BP modules, and I think they make some. But we had to replace lots of failed BP modules in that size range, and are hesitant to use their technology, fearing that the problems may persist in the continued line. Thank you for any discussion and recommendations. Allan -- Allan Sindelar al...@positiveenergysolar.commailto:al...@positiveenergysolar.com NABCEP Certified Photovoltaic Installer NABCEP Certified Technical Sales Professional New Mexico EE98J Journeyman Electrician Founder and Chief Technology Officer Positive Energy, Inc. 3209 Richards Lane (note new address) Santa Fe, New Mexico 87507 505 424-1112 www.positiveenergysolar.comhttp://www.positiveenergysolar.com/ CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This e-mail and its attachments are intended only for the use of the individual or entity who is the intended recipient and may contain information that is privileged, confidential and exempt from disclosure or any type of use under applicable law. If the reader of this e-mail is not the intended recipient, or the employee, agent, or representative responsible for delivering the e-mail to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution, copying, or other use of this e-mail is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error, please reply immediately to the sender. P Please think of the environment before printing this email ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re
[RE-wrenches] 24V Module Query
Wrenches, We have years of installing 36-cell (12V) and 72-cell (24V) modules for battery-based customers. Most of our systems are 24V or 48V nominal. Over the last few years, sources of conventionally-sized 72-cell modules have dried up - as cells have increased in size, most modules and most newer factory production lines have either gone to 60-cell (20V) modules, or 72 cells in 300+ watt ranges. It seems that the formerly common 72 cell, 24V modules in the 150-190 watt range, which are well-suited to integrating into existing systems, are no longer available. 60-cell modules in the common 220-250 watt range can't be added to an existing system unless run through a dedicated MPPT charge controller that can convert voltage, such as an FM, XW60, Classic or TriStar; the added cost of any of these controllers cancels out the low prices of the modules. Who continues to manufacture 72-cell modules? Which distributors carry them? I am aware of three options - are there more? - Sunpower makes one module in the 245 watt range that can be used negative ground, but it's very high efficiency (and with high Voc/Vmp as well) and very pricey; - Sanyo/Panasonic has 225-240 watt modules, but also quite premium and pricey; - Ameresco bought the rights to manufacture many former BP modules, and I think they make some. But we had to replace lots of failed BP modules in that size range, and are hesitant to use their technology, fearing that the problems may persist in the continued line. Thank you for any discussion and recommendations. Allan -- Allan Sindelar al...@positiveenergysolar.com NABCEP Certified Photovoltaic Installer NABCEP Certified Technical Sales Professional New Mexico EE98J Journeyman Electrician Founder and Chief Technology Officer Positive Energy, Inc. 3209 Richards Lane (note new address) Santa Fe, New Mexico 87507 505 424-1112 www.positiveenergysolar.com ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] 24V Module Query
Hi Allan; I've been in the same conundrum lately. I found that AEE and others have 12 v modules (Solartech), but the price per watt is double or triple. My take is that somewhere around 200 to 400 watts, its more cost effective to go to the GT modules with an MPPT controller. Blue Sky makes the 1524, and 3024 that can take up to 57 Voc, so those would work at still fairly low cost. Unfortunately many of the other low cost MPPT controllers won't work with the 60 cell modules. At some point, it may actually be cost effective to just use 60 cell modules with non MPPT controllers, and just forget about the extra 24 cells. (I know that sounds crazy, but PV less than $1/ watt is crazy too) I'm trying to add modules to an existing array of 8 Siemens 12 v modules, and it just doesn't work out, except with separate controllers. Also, its amazing how much PV you can throw at an off grid project these days for $10k. It almost makes messing around with the old modules a waste of time. Perhaps the solution might be to remove old arrays for customers wanting to really up size, and then reuse the old modules for small systems? Ray On 1/24/2013 12:35 PM, Allan Sindelar wrote: Wrenches, We have years of installing 36-cell (12V) and 72-cell (24V) modules for battery-based customers. Most of our systems are 24V or 48V nominal. Over the last few years, sources of conventionally-sized 72-cell modules have dried up - as cells have increased in size, most modules and most newer factory production lines have either gone to 60-cell (20V) modules, or 72 cells in 300+ watt ranges. It seems that the formerly common 72 cell, 24V modules in the 150-190 watt range, which are well-suited to integrating into existing systems, are no longer available. 60-cell modules in the common 220-250 watt range can't be added to an existing system unless run through a dedicated MPPT charge controller that can convert voltage, such as an FM, XW60, Classic or TriStar; the added cost of any of these controllers cancels out the low prices of the modules. Who continues to manufacture 72-cell modules? Which distributors carry them? I am aware of three options - are there more? - Sunpower makes one module in the 245 watt range that can be used negative ground, but it's very high efficiency (and with high Voc/Vmp as well) and very pricey; - Sanyo/Panasonic has 225-240 watt modules, but also quite premium and pricey; - Ameresco bought the rights to manufacture many former BP modules, and I think they make some. But we had to replace lots of failed BP modules in that size range, and are hesitant to use their technology, fearing that the problems may persist in the continued line. Thank you for any discussion and recommendations. Allan -- *Allan Sindelar* _Allan@positiveenergysolar.com_ mailto:al...@positiveenergysolar.com NABCEP Certified Photovoltaic Installer NABCEP Certified Technical Sales Professional New Mexico EE98J Journeyman Electrician Founder and Chief Technology Officer *Positive Energy, Inc.* 3209 Richards Lane (note new address) Santa Fe, New Mexico 87507 *505 424-1112* _www.positiveenergysolar.com_ http://www.positiveenergysolar.com/ * * ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] 24V Module Query
Hi guys I've buying the new 6 cell x 72 cell from Trina from a few suppliers. Big yea, but same 44voc so it's an easy add to existing systems. A huge relief. Jay Peltz power Sent from my iPhone On Jan 24, 2013, at 12:11 PM, Ray Walters r...@solarray.com wrote: Hi Allan; I've been in the same conundrum lately. I found that AEE and others have 12 v modules (Solartech), but the price per watt is double or triple. My take is that somewhere around 200 to 400 watts, its more cost effective to go to the GT modules with an MPPT controller. Blue Sky makes the 1524, and 3024 that can take up to 57 Voc, so those would work at still fairly low cost. Unfortunately many of the other low cost MPPT controllers won't work with the 60 cell modules. At some point, it may actually be cost effective to just use 60 cell modules with non MPPT controllers, and just forget about the extra 24 cells. (I know that sounds crazy, but PV less than $1/ watt is crazy too) I'm trying to add modules to an existing array of 8 Siemens 12 v modules, and it just doesn't work out, except with separate controllers. Also, its amazing how much PV you can throw at an off grid project these days for $10k. It almost makes messing around with the old modules a waste of time. Perhaps the solution might be to remove old arrays for customers wanting to really up size, and then reuse the old modules for small systems? Ray On 1/24/2013 12:35 PM, Allan Sindelar wrote: Wrenches, We have years of installing 36-cell (12V) and 72-cell (24V) modules for battery-based customers. Most of our systems are 24V or 48V nominal. Over the last few years, sources of conventionally-sized 72-cell modules have dried up - as cells have increased in size, most modules and most newer factory production lines have either gone to 60-cell (20V) modules, or 72 cells in 300+ watt ranges. It seems that the formerly common 72 cell, 24V modules in the 150-190 watt range, which are well-suited to integrating into existing systems, are no longer available. 60-cell modules in the common 220-250 watt range can't be added to an existing system unless run through a dedicated MPPT charge controller that can convert voltage, such as an FM, XW60, Classic or TriStar; the added cost of any of these controllers cancels out the low prices of the modules. Who continues to manufacture 72-cell modules? Which distributors carry them? I am aware of three options - are there more? - Sunpower makes one module in the 245 watt range that can be used negative ground, but it's very high efficiency (and with high Voc/Vmp as well) and very pricey; - Sanyo/Panasonic has 225-240 watt modules, but also quite premium and pricey; - Ameresco bought the rights to manufacture many former BP modules, and I think they make some. But we had to replace lots of failed BP modules in that size range, and are hesitant to use their technology, fearing that the problems may persist in the continued line. Thank you for any discussion and recommendations. Allan -- Allan Sindelar al...@positiveenergysolar.com NABCEP Certified Photovoltaic Installer NABCEP Certified Technical Sales Professional New Mexico EE98J Journeyman Electrician Founder and Chief Technology Officer Positive Energy, Inc. 3209 Richards Lane (note new address) Santa Fe, New Mexico 87507 505 424-1112 www.positiveenergysolar.com ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] 24V Module Query
I totally agree - old mods are usually not worth messing with at today's PV prices. In some cases it might be best to downsize the system and then AC couple some microinverters to cover the decrease in performance, or just replace the entire array if there are enough problems. There is a used market for smaller PV mods on Craigslist. Back when I was installing Astropower 110W modules on single voltage Xantrex C40's, I never thought we'd be using anything but 12V nominal PV mods. Little did I know... Off-grid is really tough in these retrofit situations, but this applies to failed/broken mods on grid-tie systems as well. That's where I can make a good case for microinverters. *Jason Szumlanski** * * Fafco Solar * On Thu, Jan 24, 2013 at 3:11 PM, Ray Walters r...@solarray.com wrote: Hi Allan; I've been in the same conundrum lately. I found that AEE and others have 12 v modules (Solartech), but the price per watt is double or triple. My take is that somewhere around 200 to 400 watts, its more cost effective to go to the GT modules with an MPPT controller. Blue Sky makes the 1524, and 3024 that can take up to 57 Voc, so those would work at still fairly low cost. Unfortunately many of the other low cost MPPT controllers won't work with the 60 cell modules. At some point, it may actually be cost effective to just use 60 cell modules with non MPPT controllers, and just forget about the extra 24 cells. (I know that sounds crazy, but PV less than $1/ watt is crazy too) I'm trying to add modules to an existing array of 8 Siemens 12 v modules, and it just doesn't work out, except with separate controllers. Also, its amazing how much PV you can throw at an off grid project these days for $10k. It almost makes messing around with the old modules a waste of time. Perhaps the solution might be to remove old arrays for customers wanting to really up size, and then reuse the old modules for small systems? Ray On 1/24/2013 12:35 PM, Allan Sindelar wrote: Wrenches, We have years of installing 36-cell (12V) and 72-cell (24V) modules for battery-based customers. Most of our systems are 24V or 48V nominal. Over the last few years, sources of conventionally-sized 72-cell modules have dried up - as cells have increased in size, most modules and most newer factory production lines have either gone to 60-cell (20V) modules, or 72 cells in 300+ watt ranges. It seems that the formerly common 72 cell, 24V modules in the 150-190 watt range, which are well-suited to integrating into existing systems, are no longer available. 60-cell modules in the common 220-250 watt range can't be added to an existing system unless run through a dedicated MPPT charge controller that can convert voltage, such as an FM, XW60, Classic or TriStar; the added cost of any of these controllers cancels out the low prices of the modules. Who continues to manufacture 72-cell modules? Which distributors carry them? I am aware of three options - are there more? - Sunpower makes one module in the 245 watt range that can be used negative ground, but it's very high efficiency (and with high Voc/Vmp as well) and very pricey; - Sanyo/Panasonic has 225-240 watt modules, but also quite premium and pricey; - Ameresco bought the rights to manufacture many former BP modules, and I think they make some. But we had to replace lots of failed BP modules in that size range, and are hesitant to use their technology, fearing that the problems may persist in the continued line. Thank you for any discussion and recommendations. Allan -- *Allan Sindelar* *al...@positiveenergysolar.com* al...@positiveenergysolar.com NABCEP Certified Photovoltaic Installer NABCEP Certified Technical Sales Professional New Mexico EE98J Journeyman Electrician Founder and Chief Technology Officer *Positive Energy, Inc.* 3209 Richards Lane (note new address) Santa Fe, New Mexico 87507 *505 424-1112* *www.positiveenergysolar.com* http://www.positiveenergysolar.com/ * * ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] 24V Module Query
Jason, How do you AC couple some microinverters to cover the decrease in performance in an off grid system, especially with older equipment, such as an SW4024? Thanks, Allan Allan Sindelar al...@positiveenergysolar.com NABCEP Certified Photovoltaic Installer NABCEP Certified Technical Sales Professional New Mexico EE98J Journeyman Electrician Founder and Chief Technology Officer Positive Energy, Inc. 3209 Richards Lane (note new address) Santa Fe, New Mexico 87507 505 424-1112 www.positiveenergysolar.com On 1/24/2013 1:38 PM, Jason Szumlanski wrote: I totally agree - old mods are usually not worth messing with at today's PV prices. In some cases it might be best to downsize the system and then AC couple some microinverters to cover the decrease in performance, or just replace the entire array if there are enough problems. There is a used market for smaller PV mods on Craigslist. Back when I was installing Astropower 110W modules on single voltage Xantrex C40's, I never thought we'd be using anything but 12V nominal PV mods. Little did I know... Off-grid is really tough in these retrofit situations, but this applies to failed/broken mods on grid-tie systems as well. That's where I can make a good case for microinverters. Jason Szumlanski Fafco Solar On Thu, Jan 24, 2013 at 3:11 PM, Ray Walters r...@solarray.com wrote: Hi Allan; I've been in the same conundrum lately. I found that AEE and others have 12 v modules (Solartech), but the price per watt is double or triple. My take is that somewhere around 200 to 400 watts, its more cost effective to go to the GT modules with an MPPT controller. Blue Sky makes the 1524, and 3024 that can take up to 57 Voc, so those would work at still fairly low cost. Unfortunately many of the other low cost MPPT controllers won't work with the 60 cell modules. At some point, it may actually be cost effective to just use 60 cell modules with non MPPT controllers, and just forget about the extra 24 cells. (I know that sounds crazy, but PV less than $1/ watt is crazy too) I'm trying to add modules to an existing array of 8 Siemens 12 v modules, and it just doesn't work out, except with separate controllers. Also, its amazing how much PV you can throw at an off grid project these days for $10k. It almost makes messing around with the old modules a waste of time. Perhaps the solution might be to remove old arrays for customers wanting to really up size, and then reuse the old modules for small systems? Ray On 1/24/2013 12:35 PM, Allan Sindelar wrote: Wrenches, We have years of installing 36-cell (12V) and 72-cell (24V) modules for battery-based customers. Most of our systems are 24V or 48V nominal. Over the last few years, sources of conventionally-sized 72-cell modules have dried up - as cells have increased in size, most modules and most newer factory production lines have either gone to 60-cell (20V) modules, or 72 cells in 300+ watt ranges. It seems that the formerly common 72 cell, 24V modules in the 150-190 watt range, which are well-suited to integrating into
Re: [RE-wrenches] 24V Module Query
Suntech 295's... Biggin! Thats about it! We did get some 72 cell mods from Oasis Montana (dealer) We are in the same boat. 14 years of off grid installs! Jeremy All Solar - Original Message - From: Allan Sindelar To: RE-wrenches Sent: Thursday, January 24, 2013 12:35 PM Subject: [RE-wrenches] 24V Module Query Wrenches, We have years of installing 36-cell (12V) and 72-cell (24V) modules for battery-based customers. Most of our systems are 24V or 48V nominal. Over the last few years, sources of conventionally-sized 72-cell modules have dried up - as cells have increased in size, most modules and most newer factory production lines have either gone to 60-cell (20V) modules, or 72 cells in 300+ watt ranges. It seems that the formerly common 72 cell, 24V modules in the 150-190 watt range, which are well-suited to integrating into existing systems, are no longer available. 60-cell modules in the common 220-250 watt range can't be added to an existing system unless run through a dedicated MPPT charge controller that can convert voltage, such as an FM, XW60, Classic or TriStar; the added cost of any of these controllers cancels out the low prices of the modules. Who continues to manufacture 72-cell modules? Which distributors carry them? I am aware of three options - are there more? - Sunpower makes one module in the 245 watt range that can be used negative ground, but it's very high efficiency (and with high Voc/Vmp as well) and very pricey; - Sanyo/Panasonic has 225-240 watt modules, but also quite premium and pricey; - Ameresco bought the rights to manufacture many former BP modules, and I think they make some. But we had to replace lots of failed BP modules in that size range, and are hesitant to use their technology, fearing that the problems may persist in the continued line. Thank you for any discussion and recommendations. Allan -- Allan Sindelar al...@positiveenergysolar.com NABCEP Certified Photovoltaic Installer NABCEP Certified Technical Sales Professional New Mexico EE98J Journeyman Electrician Founder and Chief Technology Officer Positive Energy, Inc. 3209 Richards Lane (note new address) Santa Fe, New Mexico 87507 505 424-1112 www.positiveenergysolar.com -- ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] 24V Module Query
Blue Sky Energy just came out with a MPPT controller for 60 cell modules called the 2512iX-HV. It can handle up to 270 Watts input/60 cells and 340 Watts input with 36 cell modules. Larry Crutcher Starlight Solar Power Systems On Jan 24, 2013, at 1:15 PM, Jay Peltz wrote: Hi guys I've buying the new 6 cell x 72 cell from Trina from a few suppliers. Big yea, but same 44voc so it's an easy add to existing systems. A huge relief. Jay Peltz power Sent from my iPhone On Jan 24, 2013, at 12:11 PM, Ray Walters r...@solarray.com wrote: Hi Allan; I've been in the same conundrum lately. I found that AEE and others have 12 v modules (Solartech), but the price per watt is double or triple. My take is that somewhere around 200 to 400 watts, its more cost effective to go to the GT modules with an MPPT controller. Blue Sky makes the 1524, and 3024 that can take up to 57 Voc, so those would work at still fairly low cost. Unfortunately many of the other low cost MPPT controllers won't work with the 60 cell modules. At some point, it may actually be cost effective to just use 60 cell modules with non MPPT controllers, and just forget about the extra 24 cells. (I know that sounds crazy, but PV less than $1/ watt is crazy too) I'm trying to add modules to an existing array of 8 Siemens 12 v modules, and it just doesn't work out, except with separate controllers. Also, its amazing how much PV you can throw at an off grid project these days for $10k. It almost makes messing around with the old modules a waste of time. Perhaps the solution might be to remove old arrays for customers wanting to really up size, and then reuse the old modules for small systems? Ray On 1/24/2013 12:35 PM, Allan Sindelar wrote: Wrenches, We have years of installing 36-cell (12V) and 72-cell (24V) modules for battery-based customers. Most of our systems are 24V or 48V nominal. Over the last few years, sources of conventionally-sized 72-cell modules have dried up - as cells have increased in size, most modules and most newer factory production lines have either gone to 60-cell (20V) modules, or 72 cells in 300+ watt ranges. It seems that the formerly common 72 cell, 24V modules in the 150-190 watt range, which are well-suited to integrating into existing systems, are no longer available. 60-cell modules in the common 220-250 watt range can't be added to an existing system unless run through a dedicated MPPT charge controller that can convert voltage, such as an FM, XW60, Classic or TriStar; the added cost of any of these controllers cancels out the low prices of the modules. Who continues to manufacture 72-cell modules? Which distributors carry them? I am aware of three options - are there more? - Sunpower makes one module in the 245 watt range that can be used negative ground, but it's very high efficiency (and with high Voc/Vmp as well) and very pricey; - Sanyo/Panasonic has 225-240 watt modules, but also quite premium and pricey; - Ameresco bought the rights to manufacture many former BP modules, and I think they make some. But we had to replace lots of failed BP modules in that size range, and are hesitant to use their technology, fearing that the problems may persist in the continued line. Thank you for any discussion and recommendations. Allan -- Allan Sindelar al...@positiveenergysolar.com NABCEP Certified Photovoltaic Installer NABCEP Certified Technical Sales Professional New Mexico EE98J Journeyman Electrician Founder and Chief Technology Officer Positive Energy, Inc. 3209 Richards Lane (note new address) Santa Fe, New Mexico 87507 505 424-1112 www.positiveenergysolar.com ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette:
Re: [RE-wrenches] 24V Module Query
I'm not sure that AC coupling would work with the old SW inverters. Assuming they are stacked for 240V, I don't see why it couldn't work. I would actually like to know because I have dual SW5548's on my farm in the Caribbean and I am considering adding more PV. Adding PV on the DC side would be a bit difficult in this case. Since most of the load there is during the day, I would rather avoid the losses through the batteries and just add PV on the AC side of the off-grid inverter. I was making more of a general statement. AC coupling would offset the impact from reducing the DC PV rating if you lose modules and have to reconfigure strings. It might not be the cheapest solution, but it might make the best long-term sense. Every situation is going to be different... *Jason Szumlanski* *Fafco Solar* On Thu, Jan 24, 2013 at 3:49 PM, Allan Sindelar al...@positiveenergysolar.com wrote: Jason, How do you AC couple some microinverters to cover the decrease in performance in an off grid system, especially with older equipment, such as an SW4024? Thanks, Allan *Allan Sindelar* *al...@positiveenergysolar.com* al...@positiveenergysolar.com NABCEP Certified Photovoltaic Installer NABCEP Certified Technical Sales Professional New Mexico EE98J Journeyman Electrician Founder and Chief Technology Officer *Positive Energy, Inc.* 3209 Richards Lane (note new address) Santa Fe, New Mexico 87507 *505 424-1112* *www.positiveenergysolar.com* http://www.positiveenergysolar.com/ * * On 1/24/2013 1:38 PM, Jason Szumlanski wrote: I totally agree - old mods are usually not worth messing with at today's PV prices. In some cases it might be best to downsize the system and then AC couple some microinverters to cover the decrease in performance, or just replace the entire array if there are enough problems. There is a used market for smaller PV mods on Craigslist. Back when I was installing Astropower 110W modules on single voltage Xantrex C40's, I never thought we'd be using anything but 12V nominal PV mods. Little did I know... Off-grid is really tough in these retrofit situations, but this applies to failed/broken mods on grid-tie systems as well. That's where I can make a good case for microinverters. *Jason Szumlanski** * * Fafco Solar * On Thu, Jan 24, 2013 at 3:11 PM, Ray Walters r...@solarray.com wrote: Hi Allan; I've been in the same conundrum lately. I found that AEE and others have 12 v modules (Solartech), but the price per watt is double or triple. My take is that somewhere around 200 to 400 watts, its more cost effective to go to the GT modules with an MPPT controller. Blue Sky makes the 1524, and 3024 that can take up to 57 Voc, so those would work at still fairly low cost. Unfortunately many of the other low cost MPPT controllers won't work with the 60 cell modules. At some point, it may actually be cost effective to just use 60 cell modules with non MPPT controllers, and just forget about the extra 24 cells. (I know that sounds crazy, but PV less than $1/ watt is crazy too) I'm trying to add modules to an existing array of 8 Siemens 12 v modules, and it just doesn't work out, except with separate controllers. Also, its amazing how much PV you can throw at an off grid project these days for $10k. It almost makes messing around with the old modules a waste of time. Perhaps the solution might be to remove old arrays for customers wanting to really up size, and then reuse the old modules for small systems? Ray On 1/24/2013 12:35 PM, Allan Sindelar wrote: Wrenches, We have years of installing 36-cell (12V) and 72-cell (24V) modules for battery-based customers. Most of our systems are 24V or 48V nominal. Over the last few years, sources of conventionally-sized 72-cell modules have dried up - as cells have increased in size, most modules and most newer factory production lines have either gone to 60-cell (20V) modules, or 72 cells in 300+ watt ranges. It seems that the formerly common 72 cell, 24V modules in the 150-190 watt range, which are well-suited to integrating into existing systems, are no longer available. 60-cell modules in the common 220-250 watt range can't be added to an existing system unless run through a dedicated MPPT charge controller that can convert voltage, such as an FM, XW60, Classic or TriStar; the added cost of any of these controllers cancels out the low prices of the modules. Who continues to manufacture 72-cell modules? Which distributors carry them? I am aware of three options - are there more? - Sunpower makes one module in the 245 watt range that can be used negative ground, but it's very high efficiency (and with high Voc/Vmp as well) and very pricey; - Sanyo/Panasonic has 225-240 watt modules, but also quite premium and pricey; - Ameresco bought the rights to manufacture many former BP modules, and I think they make some. But we had to replace
Re: [RE-wrenches] 24V Module Query
One other thingI have been selling 155 watt PV modules, mono with very low temp. coefficient of -0.23%/°C, that are 17.5 Vmp and 21.6 Voc. These are very good performance modules and efficient too. 26.5 x 58.3 and Tyco connectors attached. Larry Crutcher Starlight Solar Power Systems On Jan 24, 2013, at 1:15 PM, Jay Peltz wrote: Hi guys I've buying the new 6 cell x 72 cell from Trina from a few suppliers. Big yea, but same 44voc so it's an easy add to existing systems. A huge relief. Jay Peltz power Sent from my iPhone On Jan 24, 2013, at 12:11 PM, Ray Walters r...@solarray.com wrote: Hi Allan; I've been in the same conundrum lately. I found that AEE and others have 12 v modules (Solartech), but the price per watt is double or triple. My take is that somewhere around 200 to 400 watts, its more cost effective to go to the GT modules with an MPPT controller. Blue Sky makes the 1524, and 3024 that can take up to 57 Voc, so those would work at still fairly low cost. Unfortunately many of the other low cost MPPT controllers won't work with the 60 cell modules. At some point, it may actually be cost effective to just use 60 cell modules with non MPPT controllers, and just forget about the extra 24 cells. (I know that sounds crazy, but PV less than $1/ watt is crazy too) I'm trying to add modules to an existing array of 8 Siemens 12 v modules, and it just doesn't work out, except with separate controllers. Also, its amazing how much PV you can throw at an off grid project these days for $10k. It almost makes messing around with the old modules a waste of time. Perhaps the solution might be to remove old arrays for customers wanting to really up size, and then reuse the old modules for small systems? Ray On 1/24/2013 12:35 PM, Allan Sindelar wrote: Wrenches, We have years of installing 36-cell (12V) and 72-cell (24V) modules for battery-based customers. Most of our systems are 24V or 48V nominal. Over the last few years, sources of conventionally-sized 72-cell modules have dried up - as cells have increased in size, most modules and most newer factory production lines have either gone to 60-cell (20V) modules, or 72 cells in 300+ watt ranges. It seems that the formerly common 72 cell, 24V modules in the 150-190 watt range, which are well-suited to integrating into existing systems, are no longer available. 60-cell modules in the common 220-250 watt range can't be added to an existing system unless run through a dedicated MPPT charge controller that can convert voltage, such as an FM, XW60, Classic or TriStar; the added cost of any of these controllers cancels out the low prices of the modules. Who continues to manufacture 72-cell modules? Which distributors carry them? I am aware of three options - are there more? - Sunpower makes one module in the 245 watt range that can be used negative ground, but it's very high efficiency (and with high Voc/Vmp as well) and very pricey; - Sanyo/Panasonic has 225-240 watt modules, but also quite premium and pricey; - Ameresco bought the rights to manufacture many former BP modules, and I think they make some. But we had to replace lots of failed BP modules in that size range, and are hesitant to use their technology, fearing that the problems may persist in the continued line. Thank you for any discussion and recommendations. Allan -- Allan Sindelar al...@positiveenergysolar.com NABCEP Certified Photovoltaic Installer NABCEP Certified Technical Sales Professional New Mexico EE98J Journeyman Electrician Founder and Chief Technology Officer Positive Energy, Inc. 3209 Richards Lane (note new address) Santa Fe, New Mexico 87507 505 424-1112 www.positiveenergysolar.com ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive:
[RE-wrenches] 24V Module Query
Blue Sky Energy just came out with a MPPT controller for 60 cell modules called the 2512iX-HV. It can handle up to 270 Watts input/60 cells and 340 Watts input with 36 cell modules. Larry Crutcher Starlight Solar Power Systems On Jan 24, 2013, at 1:15 PM, Jay Peltz wrote: Hi guys I've buying the new 6 cell x 72 cell from Trina from a few suppliers. Big yea, but same 44voc so it's an easy add to existing systems. A huge relief. Jay Peltz power Sent from my iPhone On Jan 24, 2013, at 12:11 PM, Ray Walters r...@solarray.com wrote: Hi Allan; I've been in the same conundrum lately. I found that AEE and others have 12 v modules (Solartech), but the price per watt is double or triple. My take is that somewhere around 200 to 400 watts, its more cost effective to go to the GT modules with an MPPT controller. Blue Sky makes the 1524, and 3024 that can take up to 57 Voc, so those would work at still fairly low cost. Unfortunately many of the other low cost MPPT controllers won't work with the 60 cell modules. At some point, it may actually be cost effective to just use 60 cell modules with non MPPT controllers, and just forget about the extra 24 cells. (I know that sounds crazy, but PV less than $1/ watt is crazy too) I'm trying to add modules to an existing array of 8 Siemens 12 v modules, and it just doesn't work out, except with separate controllers. Also, its amazing how much PV you can throw at an off grid project these days for $10k. It almost makes messing around with the old modules a waste of time. Perhaps the solution might be to remove old arrays for customers wanting to really up size, and then reuse the old modules for small systems? Ray On 1/24/2013 12:35 PM, Allan Sindelar wrote: Wrenches, We have years of installing 36-cell (12V) and 72-cell (24V) modules for battery-based customers. Most of our systems are 24V or 48V nominal. Over the last few years, sources of conventionally-sized 72-cell modules have dried up - as cells have increased in size, most modules and most newer factory production lines have either gone to 60-cell (20V) modules, or 72 cells in 300+ watt ranges. It seems that the formerly common 72 cell, 24V modules in the 150-190 watt range, which are well-suited to integrating into existing systems, are no longer available. 60-cell modules in the common 220-250 watt range can't be added to an existing system unless run through a dedicated MPPT charge controller that can convert voltage, such as an FM, XW60, Classic or TriStar; the added cost of any of these controllers cancels out the low prices of the modules. Who continues to manufacture 72-cell modules? Which distributors carry them? I am aware of three options - are there more? - Sunpower makes one module in the 245 watt range that can be used negative ground, but it's very high efficiency (and with high Voc/Vmp as well) and very pricey; - Sanyo/Panasonic has 225-240 watt modules, but also quite premium and pricey; - Ameresco bought the rights to manufacture many former BP modules, and I think they make some. But we had to replace lots of failed BP modules in that size range, and are hesitant to use their technology, fearing that the problems may persist in the continued line. Thank you for any discussion and recommendations. Allan -- Allan Sindelar al...@positiveenergysolar.com NABCEP Certified Photovoltaic Installer NABCEP Certified Technical Sales Professional New Mexico EE98J Journeyman Electrician Founder and Chief Technology Officer Positive Energy, Inc. 3209 Richards Lane (note new address) Santa Fe, New Mexico 87507 505 424-1112 www.positiveenergysolar.com ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette:
Re: [RE-wrenches] 24V Module Query
Friends: Again, welcome to the world of PV design. I suggest one become accomplished at analyzing IV curves for various PV strings. I created a spreadsheet that helps me analyze these values. You can then see if you can mix and match modules to find workable solutions. I recently was asked to upgrade a system with a bunch of Arco modules. I found that if I mixed strings of I believe 3 or 4 Arco modules with strings of 1 or 2 Solar World modules (exact quantities escape me), I had a pretty good match. We connected these to an MX60. After install, we tested MPP parameters and charging rates of each string individually and the strings combined and we found the system worked pretty well. Good luck, William Miller ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] 24V Module Query
(off list) What brand and model are they, Larry? Allan Allan Sindelar al...@positiveenergysolar.com NABCEP Certified Photovoltaic Installer NABCEP Certified Technical Sales Professional New Mexico EE98J Journeyman Electrician Founder and Chief Technology Officer Positive Energy, Inc. 3209 Richards Lane (note new address) Santa Fe, New Mexico 87507 505 424-1112 www.positiveenergysolar.com On 1/24/2013 2:16 PM, Larry Crutcher, Starlight Solar Power Systems wrote: Sorry, the 155 Watt modules have MC4's, not Tyco. Larry On Jan 24, 2013, at 12:35 PM, Allan Sindelar wrote: Wrenches, We have years of installing 36-cell (12V) and 72-cell (24V) modules for battery-based customers. Most of our systems are 24V or 48V nominal. Over the last few years, sources of conventionally-sized 72-cell modules have dried up - as cells have increased in size, most modules and most newer factory production lines have either gone to 60-cell (20V) modules, or 72 cells in 300+ watt ranges. It seems that the formerly common 72 cell, 24V modules in the 150-190 watt range, which are well-suited to integrating into existing systems, are no longer available. 60-cell modules in the common 220-250 watt range can't be added to an existing system unless run through a dedicated MPPT charge controller that can convert voltage, such as an FM, XW60, Classic or TriStar; the added cost of any of these controllers cancels out the low prices of the modules. Who continues to manufacture 72-cell modules? Which distributors carry them? I am aware of three options - are there more? - Sunpower makes one module in the 245 watt range that can be used negative ground, but it's very high efficiency (and with high Voc/Vmp as well) and very pricey; - Sanyo/Panasonic has 225-240 watt modules, but also quite premium and pricey; - Ameresco bought the rights to manufacture many former BP modules, and I think they make some. But we had to replace lots of failed BP modules in that size range, and are hesitant to use their technology, fearing that the problems may persist in the continued line. Thank you for any discussion and recommendations. Allan -- Allan Sindelar al...@positiveenergysolar.com NABCEP Certified Photovoltaic Installer NABCEP Certified Technical Sales Professional New Mexico EE98J Journeyman Electrician Founder and Chief Technology Officer Positive Energy, Inc. 3209 Richards Lane (note new address) Santa Fe, New Mexico 87507 505 424-1112 www.positiveenergysolar.com ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings:
Re: [RE-wrenches] 24V Module Query
Larry, Yes, but isn't it 12V-only output? When I called Rick Cullen to ask if he had anything to work with 60-cell modules, he told me only in 12V output, which we seldom encounter any more. Thanks, Allan Allan Sindelar al...@positiveenergysolar.com NABCEP Certified Photovoltaic Installer NABCEP Certified Technical Sales Professional New Mexico EE98J Journeyman Electrician Founder and Chief Technology Officer Positive Energy, Inc. 3209 Richards Lane (note new address) Santa Fe, New Mexico 87507 505 424-1112 www.positiveenergysolar.com On 1/24/2013 2:01 PM, Larry Crutcher, Starlight Solar Power Systems wrote: Blue Sky Energy just came out with a MPPT controller for 60 cell modules called the 2512iX-HV. It can handle up to 270 Watts input/60 cells and 340 Watts input with 36 cell modules. Larry Crutcher Starlight Solar Power Systems On Jan 24, 2013, at 1:15 PM, Jay Peltz wrote: Hi guys I've buying the new 6" cell x 72 cell from Trina from a few suppliers. Big yea, but same 44voc so it's an easy add to existing systems. A huge relief. Jay Peltz power Sent from my iPhone On Jan 24, 2013, at 12:11 PM, Ray Walters r...@solarray.com wrote: Hi Allan; I've been in the same conundrum lately. I found that AEE and others have 12 v modules (Solartech), but the price per watt is double or triple. My take is that somewhere around 200 to 400 watts, its more cost effective to go to the GT modules with an MPPT controller. Blue Sky makes the 1524, and 3024 that can take up to 57 Voc, so those would work at still fairly low cost. Unfortunately many of the other low cost MPPT controllers won't work with the 60 cell modules. At some point, it may actually be cost effective to just use 60 cell modules with non MPPT controllers, and just forget about the extra 24 cells. (I know that sounds crazy, but PV less than $1/ watt is crazy too) I'm trying to add modules to an existing array of 8 Siemens 12 v modules, and it just doesn't work out, except with separate controllers. Also, its amazing how much PV you can throw at an off grid project these days for $10k. It almost makes messing around with the old modules a waste of time. Perhaps the solution might be to remove old arrays for customers wanting to really up size, and then reuse the old modules for small systems? Ray On 1/24/2013 12:35 PM, Allan Sindelar wrote: Wrenches, We have years of installing 36-cell (12V) and 72-cell (24V) modules for battery-based customers. Most of our systems are 24V or 48V nominal. Over the last few years, sources of conventionally-sized 72-cell modules have dried up - as cells have increased in size, most modules and most newer factory production lines have either gone to 60-cell (20V) modules, or 72 cells in 300+ watt ranges. It seems that the formerly common 72 cell, 24V modules in the 150-190 watt range, which are well-suited to integrating into existing systems, are no longer available. 60-cell modules in the common 220-250 watt range can't be added to an existing system unless run through a dedicated MPPT charge controller that can convert voltage, such as an FM, XW60,
Re: [RE-wrenches] 24V Module Query
Alan: You can also use one of our Optimizers with IndOp. This will buck of boost the module voltage to match the battery voltage. Still would need some form of charge control to protect the battery but this would provide an easy way to add new 60 cell modules to an existing 72 cell array. Feel free to contact me if you have any questions. Best Regards, John Berdner General Manager, North America [cid:image001.jpg@01CDFA39.F671DEB0] SolarEdge Technologies, Inc. 3347 Gateway Boulevard, Fremont CA 94538 USA (*Please note of our new address.) T: 510.498.3200, X 747 M: 530.277.4894 From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of Allan Sindelar Sent: Thursday, January 24, 2013 11:35 AM To: RE-wrenches Subject: [RE-wrenches] 24V Module Query Wrenches, We have years of installing 36-cell (12V) and 72-cell (24V) modules for battery-based customers. Most of our systems are 24V or 48V nominal. Over the last few years, sources of conventionally-sized 72-cell modules have dried up - as cells have increased in size, most modules and most newer factory production lines have either gone to 60-cell (20V) modules, or 72 cells in 300+ watt ranges. It seems that the formerly common 72 cell, 24V modules in the 150-190 watt range, which are well-suited to integrating into existing systems, are no longer available. 60-cell modules in the common 220-250 watt range can't be added to an existing system unless run through a dedicated MPPT charge controller that can convert voltage, such as an FM, XW60, Classic or TriStar; the added cost of any of these controllers cancels out the low prices of the modules. Who continues to manufacture 72-cell modules? Which distributors carry them? I am aware of three options - are there more? - Sunpower makes one module in the 245 watt range that can be used negative ground, but it's very high efficiency (and with high Voc/Vmp as well) and very pricey; - Sanyo/Panasonic has 225-240 watt modules, but also quite premium and pricey; - Ameresco bought the rights to manufacture many former BP modules, and I think they make some. But we had to replace lots of failed BP modules in that size range, and are hesitant to use their technology, fearing that the problems may persist in the continued line. Thank you for any discussion and recommendations. Allan -- Allan Sindelar al...@positiveenergysolar.commailto:al...@positiveenergysolar.com NABCEP Certified Photovoltaic Installer NABCEP Certified Technical Sales Professional New Mexico EE98J Journeyman Electrician Founder and Chief Technology Officer Positive Energy, Inc. 3209 Richards Lane (note new address) Santa Fe, New Mexico 87507 505 424-1112 www.positiveenergysolar.comhttp://www.positiveenergysolar.com/ CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This e-mail and its attachments are intended only for the use of the individual or entity who is the intended recipient and may contain information that is privileged, confidential and exempt from disclosure or any type of use under applicable law. If the reader of this e-mail is not the intended recipient, or the employee, agent, or representative responsible for delivering the e-mail to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution, copying, or other use of this e-mail is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error, please reply immediately to the sender. P Please think of the environment before printing this email inline: image001.jpg___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] 24V Module Query
Blue Sky's 1524 and 3024 work with 60 cell mods, and have 12 or 24 v output. I have a several 3048s that have been in service for over 12 years, no problems. Ray On 1/24/2013 3:07 PM, Allan Sindelar wrote: Larry, Yes, but isn't it 12V-only output? When I called Rick Cullen to ask if he had anything to work with 60-cell modules, he told me only in 12V output, which we seldom encounter any more. Thanks, Allan *Allan Sindelar* _Allan@positiveenergysolar.com_ mailto:al...@positiveenergysolar.com NABCEP Certified Photovoltaic Installer NABCEP Certified Technical Sales Professional New Mexico EE98J Journeyman Electrician Founder and Chief Technology Officer *Positive Energy, Inc.* 3209 Richards Lane (note new address) Santa Fe, New Mexico 87507 *505 424-1112* _www.positiveenergysolar.com_ http://www.positiveenergysolar.com/ * * On 1/24/2013 2:01 PM, Larry Crutcher, Starlight Solar Power Systems wrote: Blue Sky Energy just came out with a MPPT controller for 60 cell modules called the 2512iX-HV. It can handle up to 270 Watts input/60 cells and 340 Watts input with 36 cell modules. Larry Crutcher Starlight Solar Power Systems On Jan 24, 2013, at 1:15 PM, Jay Peltz wrote: Hi guys I've buying the new 6 cell x 72 cell from Trina from a few suppliers. Big yea, but same 44voc so it's an easy add to existing systems. A huge relief. Jay Peltz power Sent from my iPhone On Jan 24, 2013, at 12:11 PM, Ray Walters r...@solarray.com mailto:r...@solarray.com wrote: Hi Allan; I've been in the same conundrum lately. I found that AEE and others have 12 v modules (Solartech), but the price per watt is double or triple. My take is that somewhere around 200 to 400 watts, its more cost effective to go to the GT modules with an MPPT controller. Blue Sky makes the 1524, and 3024 that can take up to 57 Voc, so those would work at still fairly low cost. Unfortunately many of the other low cost MPPT controllers won't work with the 60 cell modules. At some point, it may actually be cost effective to just use 60 cell modules with non MPPT controllers, and just forget about the extra 24 cells. (I know that sounds crazy, but PV less than $1/ watt is crazy too) I'm trying to add modules to an existing array of 8 Siemens 12 v modules, and it just doesn't work out, except with separate controllers. Also, its amazing how much PV you can throw at an off grid project these days for $10k. It almost makes messing around with the old modules a waste of time. Perhaps the solution might be to remove old arrays for customers wanting to really up size, and then reuse the old modules for small systems? Ray On 1/24/2013 12:35 PM, Allan Sindelar wrote: Wrenches, We have years of installing 36-cell (12V) and 72-cell (24V) modules for battery-based customers. Most of our systems are 24V or 48V nominal. Over the last few years, sources of conventionally-sized 72-cell modules have dried up - as cells have increased in size, most modules and most newer factory production lines have either gone to 60-cell (20V) modules, or 72 cells in 300+ watt ranges. It seems that the formerly common 72 cell, 24V modules in the 150-190 watt range, which are well-suited to integrating into existing systems, are no longer available. 60-cell modules in the common 220-250 watt range can't be added to an existing system unless run through a dedicated MPPT charge controller that can convert voltage, such as an FM, XW60, Classic or TriStar; the added cost of any of these controllers cancels out the low prices of the modules. Who continues to manufacture 72-cell modules? Which distributors carry them? I am aware of three options - are there more? - Sunpower makes one module in the 245 watt range that can be used negative ground, but it's very high efficiency (and with high Voc/Vmp as well) and very pricey; - Sanyo/Panasonic has 225-240 watt modules, but also quite premium and pricey; - Ameresco bought the rights to manufacture many former BP modules, and I think they make some. But we had to replace lots of failed BP modules in that size range, and are hesitant to use their technology, fearing that the problems may persist in the continued line. Thank you for any discussion and recommendations. Allan -- *Allan Sindelar* _Allan@positiveenergysolar.com_ mailto:al...@positiveenergysolar.com NABCEP Certified Photovoltaic Installer NABCEP Certified Technical Sales Professional New Mexico EE98J Journeyman Electrician Founder and Chief Technology Officer *Positive Energy, Inc.* 3209 Richards Lane (note new address) Santa Fe, New Mexico 87507 *505 424-1112* _www.positiveenergysolar.com_ http://www.positiveenergysolar.com/ * * ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address:RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] 24V Module Query
Hi John; Would we not need an MPPT controller, just a regular PWM type, then? That might be a solution for these democracy arrays. Ray On 1/24/2013 3:16 PM, John Berdner wrote: Alan: You can also use one of our Optimizers with IndOp. This will buck of boost the module voltage to match the battery voltage. Still would need some form of charge control to protect the battery but this would provide an easy way to add new 60 cell modules to an existing 72 cell array. Feel free to contact me if you have any questions. Best Regards, John Berdner General Manager, North America SolarEdge Technologies, Inc. 3347 Gateway Boulevard, Fremont CA 94538 USA (*Please note of our new address.) T: 510.498.3200, X 747 M: 530.277.4894 From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of Allan Sindelar Sent: Thursday, January 24, 2013 11:35 AM To: RE-wrenches Subject: [RE-wrenches] 24V Module Query Wrenches, We have years of installing 36-cell (12V) and 72-cell (24V) modules for battery-based customers. Most of our systems are 24V or 48V nominal. Over the last few years, sources of conventionally-sized 72-cell modules have dried up - as cells have increased in size, most modules and most newer factory production lines have either gone to 60-cell (20V) modules, or 72 cells in 300+ watt ranges. It seems that the formerly common 72 cell, 24V modules in the 150-190 watt range, which are well-suited to integrating into existing systems, are no longer available. 60-cell modules in the common 220-250 watt range can't be added to an existing system unless run through a dedicated MPPT charge controller that can convert voltage, such as an FM, XW60, Classic or TriStar; the added cost of any of these controllers cancels out the low prices of the modules. Who continues to manufacture 72-cell modules? Which distributors carry them? I am aware of three options - are there more? - Sunpower makes one module in the 245 watt range that can be used negative ground, but it's very high efficiency (and with high Voc/Vmp as well) and very pricey; - Sanyo/Panasonic has 225-240 watt modules, but also quite premium and pricey; - Ameresco bought the rights to manufacture many former BP modules, and I think they make some. But we had to replace lots of failed BP modules in that size range, and are hesitant to use their technology, fearing that the problems may persist in the continued line. Thank you for any discussion and recommendations. Allan -- Allan Sindelar al...@positiveenergysolar.com NABCEP Certified Photovoltaic Installer NABCEP Certified Technical Sales Professional New Mexico EE98J Journeyman Electrician Founder and Chief Technology Officer Positive Energy, Inc. 3209 Richards Lane (note new address) Santa Fe, New Mexico 87507 505 424-1112 www.positiveenergysolar.com CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This e-mail and its attachments are intended only for the use of the individual or entity who is the intended recipient and may contain information that is privileged, confidential and exempt from disclosure or any type of use under applicable law. If the reader of this e-mail is not the intended recipient, or the employee, agent, or representative responsible for delivering the e-mail to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution, copying, or other use of this e-mail is strictly
Re: [RE-wrenches] 24V Module Query
True, the 2512iX-HV model is for 12 volt systems only. The 1524iX will operate with 12 or 24 volt and can handle up to 57Voc. However, in the manual it recommends no more than 45.6 Voc for 24 volt operation with 33 to 37 volt modules. I'm guessing the conversion efficiency suffers outside that range. Larry Crutcher Starlight Solar Power Systems On Jan 24, 2013, at 3:07 PM, Allan Sindelar wrote: Larry, Yes, but isn't it 12V-only output? When I called Rick Cullen to ask if he had anything to work with 60-cell modules, he told me only in 12V output, which we seldom encounter any more. Thanks, Allan Allan Sindelar al...@positiveenergysolar.com NABCEP Certified Photovoltaic Installer NABCEP Certified Technical Sales Professional New Mexico EE98J Journeyman Electrician Founder and Chief Technology Officer Positive Energy, Inc. 3209 Richards Lane (note new address) Santa Fe, New Mexico 87507 505 424-1112 www.positiveenergysolar.com On 1/24/2013 2:01 PM, Larry Crutcher, Starlight Solar Power Systems wrote: Blue Sky Energy just came out with a MPPT controller for 60 cell modules called the 2512iX-HV. It can handle up to 270 Watts input/60 cells and 340 Watts input with 36 cell modules. Larry Crutcher Starlight Solar Power Systems On Jan 24, 2013, at 1:15 PM, Jay Peltz wrote: Hi guys I've buying the new 6 cell x 72 cell from Trina from a few suppliers. Big yea, but same 44voc so it's an easy add to existing systems. A huge relief. Jay Peltz power Sent from my iPhone On Jan 24, 2013, at 12:11 PM, Ray Walters r...@solarray.com wrote: Hi Allan; I've been in the same conundrum lately. I found that AEE and others have 12 v modules (Solartech), but the price per watt is double or triple. My take is that somewhere around 200 to 400 watts, its more cost effective to go to the GT modules with an MPPT controller. Blue Sky makes the 1524, and 3024 that can take up to 57 Voc, so those would work at still fairly low cost. Unfortunately many of the other low cost MPPT controllers won't work with the 60 cell modules. At some point, it may actually be cost effective to just use 60 cell modules with non MPPT controllers, and just forget about the extra 24 cells. (I know that sounds crazy, but PV less than $1/ watt is crazy too) I'm trying to add modules to an existing array of 8 Siemens 12 v modules, and it just doesn't work out, except with separate controllers. Also, its amazing how much PV you can throw at an off grid project these days for $10k. It almost makes messing around with the old modules a waste of time. Perhaps the solution might be to remove old arrays for customers wanting to really up size, and then reuse the old modules for small systems? Ray On 1/24/2013 12:35 PM, Allan Sindelar wrote: Wrenches, We have years of installing 36-cell (12V) and 72-cell (24V) modules for battery-based customers. Most of our systems are 24V or 48V nominal. Over the last few years, sources of conventionally-sized 72-cell modules have dried up - as cells have increased in size, most modules and most newer factory production lines have either gone to 60-cell (20V) modules, or 72 cells in 300+ watt ranges. It seems that the formerly common 72 cell, 24V modules in the 150-190 watt range, which are well-suited to integrating into existing systems, are no longer available. 60-cell modules in the common 220-250 watt range can't be added to an existing system unless run through a dedicated MPPT charge controller that can convert voltage, such as an FM, XW60, Classic or TriStar; the added cost of any of these controllers cancels out the low prices of the modules. Who continues to manufacture 72-cell modules? Which distributors carry them? I am aware of three options - are there more? - Sunpower makes one module in the 245 watt range that can be used negative ground, but it's very high efficiency (and with high Voc/Vmp as well) and very pricey; - Sanyo/Panasonic has 225-240 watt modules, but also quite premium and pricey; - Ameresco bought the rights to manufacture many former BP modules, and I think they make some. But we had to replace lots of failed BP modules in that size range, and are hesitant to use their technology, fearing that the problems may persist in the continued line. Thank you for any discussion and recommendations. Allan -- Allan Sindelar al...@positiveenergysolar.com NABCEP Certified Photovoltaic Installer NABCEP Certified Technical Sales Professional New Mexico EE98J Journeyman Electrician Founder and Chief Technology Officer Positive Energy, Inc. 3209 Richards Lane (note new address) Santa Fe, New Mexico 87507 505 424-1112 www.positiveenergysolar.com ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings:
