Re: [RE-wrenches] 690.47(D)
Hi Mark, Here in Colorado, we've been on the 2014 code for about 3 years. There have been various AHJ interpretations. Unfortunately for us, its kind of ended up that on all arrays, the inspectors expect a dedicated ground rod directly adjacent to the array. This includes arrays mounted on the same building as the service entrance equipment. I've had to beg to be able to run it down the north roof to keep it out of view. If it happens that the roof you are mounting to is right near the service entrance, you can use the existing ground rod. I think its a very strange requirement and no one quite understands why this makes these installations safer. Good luck On Jan 30, 2017 2:01 PM, "Jason Szumlanski" wrote: > Further to August’s reply, here it is: > > http://iaeimagazine.org/magazine/2015/06/23/bonding-and- > grounding-pv-systems/ > > Jason > > > On Mon, Jan 30, 2017 at 1:47 PM, August Goers wrote: > >> Hi Mark, >> >> The current issue of IAEI magazine has an article writing by Bill Brooks >> called "Hot Topics for PV System Installations." In the article, he >> directly addresses 2014 NEC 690.47(D). >> >> Unfortunately I don't see this article posted online, but you might want >> to check it out if you can find it. >> >> My understanding is that the intent of 690.47(D) is to require an >> additional electrode when PV is installed on structures that don't already >> have and electrode system such as a separate building, garage, etc. >> >> August >> >> -Original Message- >> From: RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On >> Behalf Of ma...@berkeleysolar.com >> Sent: Monday, January 30, 2017 10:24 AM >> To: re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org >> Subject: [RE-wrenches] 690.47(D) >> >> Folks, >> >> NEC 2014 is in effect in California. I just pulled a permit for a >> residential system and it had a little stamp that had 690.47(D) circled as >> a requirement. >> >> Anyone worked with AHJ's in California who are now requiring this? I am >> planning to not install the electrode, siting Exception 2 and trying to >> say that the existing electrode next to the build is "next to the array"? >> >> Mark >> >> > ___ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List-Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.or > g/maillist.html > > List rules & etiquette: > www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > www.members.re-wrenches.org > > > ___ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] 690.47(D)
You may also want to cite the 2017 code which does not require the GEC for ungrounded inverters, or rather non transformer isolated inverters. From: Jason Szumlanski [mailto:ja...@floridasolardesigngroup.com] Sent: Monday, January 30, 2017 2:55 PM To: RE-wrenches Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] 690.47(D) I don’t think that was the intention necessarily, but I have argued the same thing with varying degrees of success. Fortunately (?) we are still on 2011 here, but 2014 is coming and hopefully AHJs will remain permissive of no additional electrode if the home already has one within 6 feet of the service entrance (which it almost always does). Jason Szumlanski On Mon, Jan 30, 2017 at 1:57 PM, William Miller wrote: Mark: For micro-inverter systems I have successfully argued the application of Exception No. 1. in that the load is the micro-inverter. William Lic 773985 millersolar.com 805-438-5600 -Original Message- From: RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of ma...@berkeleysolar.com Sent: Monday, January 30, 2017 10:24 AM To: re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Subject: [RE-wrenches] 690.47(D) Folks, NEC 2014 is in effect in California. I just pulled a permit for a residential system and it had a little stamp that had 690.47(D) circled as a requirement. Anyone worked with AHJ's in California who are now requiring this? I am planning to not install the electrode, siting Exception 2 and trying to say that the existing electrode next to the build is "next to the array"? Mark ___ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org <http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenchesorg> List-Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.htm l List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org <http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenchesorg> List-Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] 690.47(D)
I don’t think that was the intention necessarily, but I have argued the same thing with varying degrees of success. Fortunately (?) we are still on 2011 here, but 2014 is coming and hopefully AHJs will remain permissive of no additional electrode if the home already has one within 6 feet of the service entrance (which it almost always does). Jason Szumlanski On Mon, Jan 30, 2017 at 1:57 PM, William Miller wrote: > Mark: > > For micro-inverter systems I have successfully argued the application of > Exception No. 1. in that the load is the micro-inverter. > > William > > > Lic 773985 > millersolar.com > 805-438-5600 > > -Original Message- > From: RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On > Behalf Of ma...@berkeleysolar.com > Sent: Monday, January 30, 2017 10:24 AM > To: re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org > Subject: [RE-wrenches] 690.47(D) > > Folks, > > NEC 2014 is in effect in California. I just pulled a permit for a > residential system and it had a little stamp that had 690.47(D) circled as > a requirement. > > Anyone worked with AHJ's in California who are now requiring this? I am > planning to not install the electrode, siting Exception 2 and trying to > say that the existing electrode next to the build is "next to the array"? > > Mark > > > ___ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List-Archive: > http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.htm > l > > List rules & etiquette: > www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > www.members.re-wrenches.org > ___ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List-Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches. > org/maillist.html > > List rules & etiquette: > www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > www.members.re-wrenches.org > > ___ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] 690.47(D)
Mark: For micro-inverter systems I have successfully argued the application of Exception No. 1. in that the load is the micro-inverter. William Lic 773985 millersolar.com 805-438-5600 -Original Message- From: RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of ma...@berkeleysolar.com Sent: Monday, January 30, 2017 10:24 AM To: re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Subject: [RE-wrenches] 690.47(D) Folks, NEC 2014 is in effect in California. I just pulled a permit for a residential system and it had a little stamp that had 690.47(D) circled as a requirement. Anyone worked with AHJ's in California who are now requiring this? I am planning to not install the electrode, siting Exception 2 and trying to say that the existing electrode next to the build is "next to the array"? Mark ___ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.htm l List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] 690.47(D)
FYI, this has changed to more of a permissive rule in the 2017 NEC, than the mandatory one in 2014. -Original Message- From: "August Goers" Sent: 1/30/2017 13:47 To: "RE-wrenches" Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] 690.47(D) Hi Mark, The current issue of IAEI magazine has an article writing by Bill Brooks called "Hot Topics for PV System Installations." In the article, he directly addresses 2014 NEC 690.47(D). Unfortunately I don't see this article posted online, but you might want to check it out if you can find it. My understanding is that the intent of 690.47(D) is to require an additional electrode when PV is installed on structures that don't already have and electrode system such as a separate building, garage, etc. August -Original Message- From: RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of ma...@berkeleysolar.com Sent: Monday, January 30, 2017 10:24 AM To: re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Subject: [RE-wrenches] 690.47(D) Folks, NEC 2014 is in effect in California. I just pulled a permit for a residential system and it had a little stamp that had 690.47(D) circled as a requirement. Anyone worked with AHJ's in California who are now requiring this? I am planning to not install the electrode, siting Exception 2 and trying to say that the existing electrode next to the build is "next to the array"? Mark ___ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.htm l List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] 690.47(D)
Further to August’s reply, here it is: http://iaeimagazine.org/magazine/2015/06/23/bonding-and-grounding-pv-systems/ Jason On Mon, Jan 30, 2017 at 1:47 PM, August Goers wrote: > Hi Mark, > > The current issue of IAEI magazine has an article writing by Bill Brooks > called "Hot Topics for PV System Installations." In the article, he > directly addresses 2014 NEC 690.47(D). > > Unfortunately I don't see this article posted online, but you might want > to check it out if you can find it. > > My understanding is that the intent of 690.47(D) is to require an > additional electrode when PV is installed on structures that don't already > have and electrode system such as a separate building, garage, etc. > > August > > -Original Message- > From: RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On > Behalf Of ma...@berkeleysolar.com > Sent: Monday, January 30, 2017 10:24 AM > To: re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org > Subject: [RE-wrenches] 690.47(D) > > Folks, > > NEC 2014 is in effect in California. I just pulled a permit for a > residential system and it had a little stamp that had 690.47(D) circled as > a requirement. > > Anyone worked with AHJ's in California who are now requiring this? I am > planning to not install the electrode, siting Exception 2 and trying to > say that the existing electrode next to the build is "next to the array"? > > Mark > > ___ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] 690.47(D)
Thanks August, I have seen the IAEI article from May-June 2015. It seemed to try the line that if the exisitng electrode is within 6 feet of the building, then that same electrode is within 6 feet of the "Array". I guess my plan at this point is to not install the aux. electrode and use the IAEI article as my justification and see what the inspector is thinking. Mark > Hi Mark, > > The current issue of IAEI magazine has an article writing by Bill Brooks > called "Hot Topics for PV System Installations." In the article, he > directly addresses 2014 NEC 690.47(D). > > Unfortunately I don't see this article posted online, but you might want > to check it out if you can find it. > > My understanding is that the intent of 690.47(D) is to require an > additional electrode when PV is installed on structures that don't already > have and electrode system such as a separate building, garage, etc. > > August > > -Original Message- > From: RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On > Behalf Of ma...@berkeleysolar.com > Sent: Monday, January 30, 2017 10:24 AM > To: re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org > Subject: [RE-wrenches] 690.47(D) > > Folks, > > NEC 2014 is in effect in California. I just pulled a permit for a > residential system and it had a little stamp that had 690.47(D) circled as > a requirement. > > Anyone worked with AHJ's in California who are now requiring this? I am > planning to not install the electrode, siting Exception 2 and trying to > say that the existing electrode next to the build is "next to the array"? > > Mark > > > ___ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List-Archive: > http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.htm > l > > List rules & etiquette: > www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > www.members.re-wrenches.org > ___ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List-Archive: > http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html > > List rules & etiquette: > www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > www.members.re-wrenches.org > > ___ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] 690.47(D)
Hi Mark, The current issue of IAEI magazine has an article writing by Bill Brooks called "Hot Topics for PV System Installations." In the article, he directly addresses 2014 NEC 690.47(D). Unfortunately I don't see this article posted online, but you might want to check it out if you can find it. My understanding is that the intent of 690.47(D) is to require an additional electrode when PV is installed on structures that don't already have and electrode system such as a separate building, garage, etc. August -Original Message- From: RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of ma...@berkeleysolar.com Sent: Monday, January 30, 2017 10:24 AM To: re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Subject: [RE-wrenches] 690.47(D) Folks, NEC 2014 is in effect in California. I just pulled a permit for a residential system and it had a little stamp that had 690.47(D) circled as a requirement. Anyone worked with AHJ's in California who are now requiring this? I am planning to not install the electrode, siting Exception 2 and trying to say that the existing electrode next to the build is "next to the array"? Mark ___ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.htm l List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
[RE-wrenches] 690.47(D)
Folks, NEC 2014 is in effect in California. I just pulled a permit for a residential system and it had a little stamp that had 690.47(D) circled as a requirement. Anyone worked with AHJ's in California who are now requiring this? I am planning to not install the electrode, siting Exception 2 and trying to say that the existing electrode next to the build is "next to the array"? Mark ___ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
