[RE-wrenches] ARCO Solar and Carrizo Plain
Us old-timers remember the dismemberment of the then big ARCO Solar grid-tie project down in So. CAL. In the 1980s and the parting out of that project in dribs and drabs for years. I was wondering recently with all these ever so big and getting bigger grid-tie projects sprouting like mushrooms across the developed world: why did ARCO Solar and the utility (PGE?) scrap the whole thing after a relatively short period of time? Causes me to wonder about the fate of so many of the mammoth projects now going in as far as what's going to happen when the owner-investors likely bail, having made their handsome ROIs, after the tax credits and MACRS depreciation plays out. Thanks, marco ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] ARCO Solar and Carrizo Plain
Marco: Maybe they did it so people who had modest power requirements could meet their needs with the M51s and mRC2000s (is that right folks)? Buying them in sets of four This was some of the first technology that worked, and was rather cheaply available at the time. I remember those old acrylic-faced modules well, and shipped quite a few...perhaps hundreds or thousands of them...for the solar company I worked for at the time. SO, IN THEORY, if the later technologies are being dismembered (that's so harsh, how about disassembled?) then those modules will be worth something too. I do not know why ARCO scrapped what they did, but I suspect a corporate perspective was part of the scene. At the time, it did me and my then-customers good. After all, we know what PG E really stands for. Just my 2 cents worth. Chris Daum Oasis Montana Inc. 406-777-4309 406-777-0830 fax www.oasismontana.com _ From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of Marco Mangelsdorf Sent: Monday, October 31, 2011 7:55 PM To: 'RE-wrenches' Subject: [RE-wrenches] ARCO Solar and Carrizo Plain Us old-timers remember the dismemberment of the then big ARCO Solar grid-tie project down in So. CAL. In the 1980s and the parting out of that project in dribs and drabs for years. I was wondering recently with all these ever so big and getting bigger grid-tie projects sprouting like mushrooms across the developed world: why did ARCO Solar and the utility (PGE?) scrap the whole thing after a relatively short period of time? Causes me to wonder about the fate of so many of the mammoth projects now going in as far as what's going to happen when the owner-investors likely bail, having made their handsome ROIs, after the tax credits and MACRS depreciation plays out. Thanks, marco ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] ARCO Solar and Carrizo Plain
Perhaps it was some of the contagious mentality around at the time that also killed GM's electric vehicle in favor of the Hummer..Solar worked, they feared the end of the oil era, so they had to kill it before the rest of the country found out. Not all bad, as some of those old Trilams and Quad lams are still powering places all over the country. I definitely see cheap surplus PV in the long term future. Ray On 10/31/2011 8:12 PM, Chris Daum wrote: Marco: Maybe they did it so people who had modest power requirements could meet their needs with the M51s and mRC2000s (is that right folks)? Buying them in sets of four This was some of the first technology that worked, and was rather cheaply available at the time. I remember those old acrylic-faced modules well, and shipped quite a few...perhaps hundreds or thousands of them...for the solar company I worked for at the time. SO, IN THEORY, if the later technologies are being dismembered (that's so harsh, how about disassembled?) then those modules will be worth something too. I do not know why ARCO scrapped what they did, but I suspect a corporate perspective was part of the scene. At the time, it did me and my then-customers good. After all, we know what PG E really stands for. Just my 2 cents worth. Chris Daum Oasis Montana Inc. 406-777-4309 406-777-0830 fax www.oasismontana.com http://www.oasismontana.com *From:* re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] *On Behalf Of *Marco Mangelsdorf *Sent:* Monday, October 31, 2011 7:55 PM *To:* 'RE-wrenches' *Subject:* [RE-wrenches] ARCO Solar and Carrizo Plain Us old-timers remember the dismemberment of the then big ARCO Solar grid-tie project down in So. CAL. In the 1980s and the parting out of that project in dribs and drabs for years. I was wondering recently with all these ever so big and getting bigger grid-tie projects sprouting like mushrooms across the developed world: why did ARCO Solar and the utility (PGE?) scrap the whole thing after a relatively short period of time? Causes me to wonder about the fate of so many of the mammoth projects now going in as far as what's going to happen when the owner-investors likely bail, having made their handsome ROIs, after the tax credits and MACRS depreciation plays out. Thanks, marco ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] ARCO Solar and Carrizo Plain
The old Carrizo's had big reflective wings beside them before people realized that the additional intensity would turn the silicone encapsulant brown giving us Carrizo Muds. PGE got their greenwash photo ops in front of Diablo Canyon's cooling towers and so it didn't make sense to keep the PV side which were becoming an embarrassment, (not that the nuclear side wasn't also). Still yes, we might be expecting some bulk sell-offs in the future..overheated Sanyo HIP's? Bill Dorsett Sunwrights Manhattan, KS From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of Marco Mangelsdorf Sent: Monday, October 31, 2011 8:55 PM To: 'RE-wrenches' Subject: [RE-wrenches] ARCO Solar and Carrizo Plain Us old-timers remember the dismemberment of the then big ARCO Solar grid-tie project down in So. CAL. In the 1980s and the parting out of that project in dribs and drabs for years. I was wondering recently with all these ever so big and getting bigger grid-tie projects sprouting like mushrooms across the developed world: why did ARCO Solar and the utility (PGE?) scrap the whole thing after a relatively short period of time? Causes me to wonder about the fate of so many of the mammoth projects now going in as far as what's going to happen when the owner-investors likely bail, having made their handsome ROIs, after the tax credits and MACRS depreciation plays out. Thanks, marco ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] ARCO Solar and Carrizo Plain
I got a bit of my start in the PV biz back then buying big lots of Carrizo modules and distributing them to local hippies for cheap to frame up DIY. (hey, I resemble that remark). Everything Carrizo and ARCO that we got had the substrate seriously browned...bad plastic formula that ARCO soon abandoned. Even the modules that were not under concentrators got burned, at least all the ones that I sold (gold, silver and from many other distributors too.) The mud modules were browned to burnt toast color, and the bronze not much better. I got great pictures if anyone wants them. There are still a few of these 4-module series arrays functioning in my extended neighborhood, with homemade wooden or aluminum frames. They still do about 75-150 watts per array, about the same as when folks installed themthough there were many bad DIY and removal-mangled connection terminals that have since crumbled into galvanic powder. ARCO built the place in the early 80s because of the late 70s energy crisis, to kick start their solar module manufacturing business. The US Military was becoming a big solar customer then too. The Carrizo Corp bought it in about 1990, gambling on energy prices continuing to soar, but they were at about half the $/kWh sold to the utility to make it pay off after (that) energy crisis eased off, and they scrapped it all to pay their debts. So I think it's more about $ per kWh than politics (isn't it all? ;-). Think of how much PV you could put on 177 acres today And I just read now they are thinking solar steam there now (sigh). Don't wanna even go into that this fine evening. Dan Fink Executive Director; Buckville Energy Consulting Buckville Publications LLC NABCEP / IREC / ISPQ accredited Continuing Education Providers http://www.buckville.com/ i...@buckville.com 970.672.4342 (voicemail) 970.373.1311 (fax) Chris Daum wrote: Marco: Maybe they did it so people who had modest power requirements could meet their needs with the M51s and mRC2000s (is that right folks)? Buying them in sets of four This was some of the first technology that worked, and was rather cheaply available at the time. I remember those old acrylic-faced modules well, and shipped quite a few...perhaps hundreds or thousands of them...for the solar company I worked for at the time. SO, IN THEORY, if the later technologies are being dismembered (that's so harsh, how about disassembled?) then those modules will be worth something too. I do not know why ARCO scrapped what they did, but I suspect a corporate perspective was part of the scene. At the time, it did me and my then-customers good. After all, we know what PG E really stands for. Just my 2 cents worth. Chris Daum Oasis Montana Inc. 406-777-4309 406-777-0830 fax www.oasismontana.com http://www.oasismontana.com *From:* re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] *On Behalf Of *Marco Mangelsdorf *Sent:* Monday, October 31, 2011 7:55 PM *To:* 'RE-wrenches' *Subject:* [RE-wrenches] ARCO Solar and Carrizo Plain Us old-timers remember the dismemberment of the then big ARCO Solar grid-tie project down in So. CAL. In the 1980s and the parting out of that project in dribs and drabs for years. I was wondering recently with all these ever so big and getting bigger grid-tie projects sprouting like mushrooms across the developed world: why did ARCO Solar and the utility (PGE?) scrap the whole thing after a relatively short period of time? Causes me to wonder about the fate of so many of the mammoth projects now going in as far as what’s going to happen when the owner-investors likely bail, having made their handsome ROIs, after the tax credits and MACRS depreciation plays out. Thanks, marco ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
