Re: [RE-wrenches] Additional Battery Charger

[Michael Welch]

Hi gang. Sharkey suggest folks might find this forum exchange on Diesel
idling interesting:
I thought the some members of
the list might benefit from reading a very comprehensive post on my
forum:

http://www.mrsharkey.com/forum/vwtp.php?t=375 
Darryl Thayer wrote at 07:29 AM 6/18/2010:
 
Hi The load issue with Diesels
is most stand by diesels are started once per month, and run for a period
of time, this is at light load.  If the Diesel is not worked hard
the rings lose there seal ie compression falls and makes them hard to
start.  Therefore they are load tested on various schedules for
engine and other operating conditions,
 
Darryl  
--- On Fri, 6/18/10, Mick Abraham
 wrote:



From: Mick Abraham 

Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Additional Battery Charger

To: "RE-wrenches"


Date: Friday, June 18, 2010, 7:35 AM

I definitely like to require the generator to work hard for every
hour in which we must listen to it, feed fuel to it, etc. (This
presupposes that we have plenty of battery to accept genset wattage
 
) 

Also: that 50 hour oil change interval...or 100 hours...or
whatever...comes around right regular and we want to wring out lots of
watt-hours between service dates. 

**

There's an old...dare I say it...wive's tale about diesel machines
actually suffering shorter lifetimes if they are not heavily loaded. I
think this belief goes way back to WWII days and may not be valid with
current engine designs. It's something about the load torque requirement
helping to maintain engine compression. Opinions from the List on this
theory would be welcomed.

***

Once you have plenty of charger load to throw on the generator, tweak
up on the "AC input amps" setting in the Outback Mate or Magnum
Remote while listening to the engine. (The battery must not be highly
charged during this tweak or else the chargers will be in throttle back
mode.) Dial up on the AC input amps setting while also causing major
household loads (such as the water pump, washing machine, etc.) to kick
in & out. Up, up, up until the generator engine can be heard to
struggle beneath the load, then dial back down on the AC input amps until
the gennie sounds happy with its work again. 

Jolliness, 

Mick Abraham, Proprietor

www.abrahamsolar.com


Voice: 970-731-4675


On Thu, Jun 17, 2010 at 11:13 PM, benn kilburn
<
b...@daystarsolar.ca> wrote:


mick, bob, 

funny you should mention using a magnum as the 'additional charger',
the system owner just happens to still have a MS4448 on the wall from his
original system  (we had upgraded his system to a FW1000 with 2 x
VFX3648's back in the fall).

i hadn't even thought of using the magnum only as a charger, and the
price is right!

thanks for the suggestion, i'll look into this as a
possibility.

Any other comments on my question about generator efficiency when
fully loaded vs say half loaded?

cheers

benn

DayStar Renewable Energy Inc.  



b...@daystarsolar.ca

780-906-7807 

HAVE A SUNNY DAY 



From:

reelli...@gmail.com

To:

re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org

Date: Thu, 17 Jun 2010 21:19:03 -0400

Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Additional Battery Charger 


Look into the Magnum inverters as
2nd chargers, very good chargers with generators.

 

I have done this many times, in the case of failure of the other
inverters for some reason, run wires and be back up and running.

I think the 4448 inverter is 60 amps @ 48 volts with an input of 16
or so amps AC.

 

Later,

Bob 

 

From:

re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org
[
mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of
benn kilburn

Sent: Thursday, June 17, 2010 7:22 PM

To: Wrenches

Subject: [RE-wrenches] Additional Battery Charger

 

G'day Wrenches,

 

 I'm looking for an additional charger(s) to increase the
charging capacity from the back-up 12 kW Onan generator into the 1200 Ah
battery.  Right now the generator's full potential output is limited
by the charging capacity of the two VFX3648's which have a max charge
output of 45A each.

 

The idea here is to use the generator to its full charging capacity
when it is running, taking in to consideration that the generator will
feed any AC loads before charging the battery. 

 

Iota and IBE chargers have been suggested.  Any comments on
these or other makes?

 

Do all generator types (diesel, propane, LNG, gasoline) run more
efficiently when fully loaded?  or is this only the case with diesel
(so i've heard)?

 

thanks,

benn

DayStar Renewable Energy
Inc. 



b...@daystarsolar.ca

780-906-7807 

HAVE A SUNNY DAY 

 


CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE:    This email, including any
attachments, contains information from DayStar Renewable Energy Inc.
and/or its affiliates, which may be confidential or privileged. The
information is intended to be for the use of the individual or entity
named above. If you are not the intende

Re: [RE-wrenches] Additional Battery Charger

[Darryl Thayer]

Hi The load issue with Diesels is most stand by diesels are started once per 
month, and run for a period of time, this is at light load.  If the Diesel is 
not worked hard the rings lose there seal ie compression falls and makes them 
hard to start.  Therefore they are load tested on various schedules for engine 
and other operating conditions,
 
Darryl  

--- On Fri, 6/18/10, Mick Abraham  wrote:


From: Mick Abraham 
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Additional Battery Charger
To: "RE-wrenches" 
Date: Friday, June 18, 2010, 7:35 AM


I definitely like to require the generator to work hard for every hour in which 
we must listen to it, feed fuel to it, etc. (This presupposes that we have 
plenty of battery to accept genset wattage   ) 

Also: that 50 hour oil change interval...or 100 hours...or whatever...comes 
around right regular and we want to wring out lots of watt-hours between 
service dates. 

**

There's an old...dare I say it...wive's tale about diesel machines actually 
suffering shorter lifetimes if they are not heavily loaded. I think this belief 
goes way back to WWII days and may not be valid with current engine designs. 
It's something about the load torque requirement helping to maintain engine 
compression. Opinions from the List on this theory would be welcomed.

***

Once you have plenty of charger load to throw on the generator, tweak up on the 
"AC input amps" setting in the Outback Mate or Magnum Remote while listening to 
the engine. (The battery must not be highly charged during this tweak or else 
the chargers will be in throttle back mode.) Dial up on the AC input amps 
setting while also causing major household loads (such as the water pump, 
washing machine, etc.) to kick in & out. Up, up, up until the generator engine 
can be heard to struggle beneath the load, then dial back down on the AC input 
amps until the gennie sounds happy with its work again. 

Jolliness, 

Mick Abraham, Proprietor
www.abrahamsolar.com

Voice: 970-731-4675



On Thu, Jun 17, 2010 at 11:13 PM, benn kilburn  wrote:


mick, bob,


funny you should mention using a magnum as the 'additional charger', the system 
owner just happens to still have a MS4448 on the wall from his original system  
(we had upgraded his system to a FW1000 with 2 x VFX3648's back in the fall).


i hadn't even thought of using the magnum only as a charger, and the price is 
right!
thanks for the suggestion, i'll look into this as a possibility.


Any other comments on my question about generator efficiency when fully loaded 
vs say half loaded?


cheers

benn

DayStar Renewable Energy Inc. 

b...@daystarsolar.ca
780-906-7807 
HAVE A SUNNY DAY 




From: reelli...@gmail.com
To: re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org
Date: Thu, 17 Jun 2010 21:19:03 -0400
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Additional Battery Charger






Look into the Magnum inverters as 2nd chargers, very good chargers with 
generators.
 
I have done this many times, in the case of failure of the other inverters for 
some reason, run wires and be back up and running.
I think the 4448 inverter is 60 amps @ 48 volts with an input of 16 or so amps 
AC.
 
Later,
Bob 
 


From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org 
[mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of benn kilburn
Sent: Thursday, June 17, 2010 7:22 PM
To: Wrenches
Subject: [RE-wrenches] Additional Battery Charger
 
G'day Wrenches,

 

 I'm looking for an additional charger(s) to increase the charging capacity 
from the back-up 12 kW Onan generator into the 1200 Ah battery.  Right now the 
generator's full potential output is limited by the charging capacity of the 
two VFX3648's which have a max charge output of 45A each.

 

The idea here is to use the generator to its full charging capacity when it is 
running, taking in to consideration that the generator will feed any AC loads 
before charging the battery. 

 

Iota and IBE chargers have been suggested.  Any comments on these or other 
makes?

 

Do all generator types (diesel, propane, LNG, gasoline) run more efficiently 
when fully loaded?  or is this only the case with diesel (so i've heard)?

 

thanks,

benn
DayStar Renewable Energy Inc. 


b...@daystarsolar.ca

780-906-7807 

HAVE A SUNNY DAY 

 

CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE:    This email, including any attachments, contains 
information from DayStar Renewable Energy Inc. and/or its affiliates, which may 
be confidential or privileged. The information is intended to be for the use of 
the individual or entity named above. If you are not the intended recipient, be 
aware that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this 
information is prohibited. If you have received this email in error, please 
notify the sender immediately by "reply to sender only" message and destroy all 
electronic and hard copies of the communication,

Re: [RE-wrenches] Additional Battery Charger

[Mick Abraham]

I definitely like to require the generator to work hard for every hour in
which we must listen to it, feed fuel to it, etc. (This presupposes that we
have plenty of battery to accept genset wattage 
 )


Also: that 50 hour oil change interval...or 100 hours...or whatever...comes
around right regular and we want to wring out lots of watt-hours between
service dates.

**

There's an old...dare I say it...wive's tale about diesel machines actually
suffering shorter lifetimes if they are not heavily loaded. I think this
belief goes way back to WWII days and may not be valid with current engine
designs. It's something about the load torque requirement helping to
maintain engine compression. Opinions from the List on this theory would be
welcomed.

***

Once you have plenty of charger load to throw on the generator, tweak up on
the "AC input amps" setting in the Outback Mate or Magnum Remote while
listening to the engine. (The battery must not be highly charged during this
tweak or else the chargers will be in throttle back mode.) Dial up on the AC
input amps setting while also causing major household loads (such as the
water pump, washing machine, etc.) to kick in & out. Up, up, up until the
generator engine can be heard to struggle beneath the load, then dial back
down on the AC input amps until the gennie sounds happy with its work again.


Jolliness,

Mick Abraham, Proprietor
www.abrahamsolar.com

Voice: 970-731-4675


On Thu, Jun 17, 2010 at 11:13 PM, benn kilburn  wrote:

>  mick, bob,
>
> funny you should mention using a magnum as the 'additional charger', the
> system owner just happens to still have a MS4448 on the wall from his
> original system  (we had upgraded his system to a FW1000 with 2 x VFX3648's
> back in the fall).
>
> i hadn't even thought of using the magnum only as a charger, and the price
> is right!
> thanks for the suggestion, i'll look into this as a possibility.
>
> Any other comments on my question about generator efficiency when fully
> loaded vs say half loaded?
>
> cheers
> benn
>
> DayStar Renewable Energy Inc.
> b...@daystarsolar.ca
> 780-906-7807
> HAVE A SUNNY DAY
>
>
> --
> From: reelli...@gmail.com
> To: re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org
> Date: Thu, 17 Jun 2010 21:19:03 -0400
> Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Additional Battery Charger
>
>
>  Look into the Magnum inverters as 2nd chargers, very good chargers with
> generators.
>
>
>
> I have done this many times, in the case of failure of the other inverters
> for some reason, run wires and be back up and running.
>
> I think the 4448 inverter is 60 amps @ 48 volts with an input of 16 or so
> amps AC.
>
>
>
> Later,
>
> Bob
>
>
>
> *From:* re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto:
> re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] *On Behalf Of *benn kilburn
> *Sent:* Thursday, June 17, 2010 7:22 PM
> *To:* Wrenches
> *Subject:* [RE-wrenches] Additional Battery Charger
>
>
>
> G'day Wrenches,
>
>
>
>  I'm looking for an additional charger(s) to increase the charging capacity
> from the back-up 12 kW Onan generator into the 1200 Ah battery.  Right now
> the generator's full potential output is limited by the charging capacity of
> the two VFX3648's which have a max charge output of 45A each.
>
>
>
> The idea here is to use the generator to its full charging capacity when it
> is running, taking in to consideration that the generator will feed any AC
> loads before charging the battery.
>
>
>
> Iota and IBE chargers have been suggested.  Any comments on these or other
> makes?
>
>
>
> Do all generator types (diesel, propane, LNG, gasoline) run more
> efficiently when fully loaded?  or is this only the case with diesel (so
> i've heard)?
>
>
>
> thanks,
>
> benn
> DayStar Renewable Energy Inc.
>
> b...@daystarsolar.ca
>
> 780-906-7807
>
> HAVE A SUNNY DAY
>
>
>
> *CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE:*This email, including any attachments,
> contains information from DayStar Renewable Energy Inc. and/or its
> affiliates, which may be confidential or privileged. The information is
> intended to be for the use of the individual or entity named above. If you
> are not the intended recipient, be aware that any disclosure, copying,
> distribution or use of the contents of this information is prohibited. If
> you have received this email in error, please notify the sender immediately
> by "reply to sender only" message and destroy all electronic and hard copies
> of the communication, including attachments.
>
>
>
>
>  --

Re: [RE-wrenches] Additional Battery Charger

[benn kilburn]

mick, bob,
funny you should mention using a magnum as the 'additional charger', the system 
owner just happens to still have a MS4448 on the wall from his original system  
(we had upgraded his system to a FW1000 with 2 x VFX3648's back in the fall).
i hadn't even thought of using the magnum only as a charger, and the price is 
right!thanks for the suggestion, i'll look into this as a possibility.
Any other comments on my question about generator efficiency when fully loaded 
vs say half loaded?
cheersbenn

DayStar Renewable Energy Inc. b...@daystarsolar.ca780-906-7807 HAVE A SUNNY DAY




From: reelli...@gmail.com
To: re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org
Date: Thu, 17 Jun 2010 21:19:03 -0400
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Additional Battery Charger



















Look
into the Magnum inverters as 2nd chargers, very good chargers with
generators.

 

I have
done this many times, in the case of failure of the other inverters for some
reason, run wires and be back up and running.

I think
the 4448 inverter is 60 amps @ 48 volts with an input of 16 or so amps AC.

 

Later,

Bob 

 





From:
re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org
[mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of benn kilburn

Sent: Thursday, June 17, 2010 7:22
PM

To: Wrenches

Subject: [RE-wrenches] Additional
Battery Charger





 

G'day Wrenches,



 





 I'm looking for an additional
charger(s) to increase the charging capacity from the back-up 12 kW Onan
generator into the 1200 Ah battery.  Right now the generator's full
potential output is limited by the charging capacity of the two VFX3648's which
have a max charge output of 45A each.





 





The idea here is to use the generator to
its full charging capacity when it is running, taking in to consideration
that the generator will feed any AC loads before charging the
battery. 





 





Iota and IBE chargers have been suggested.
 Any comments on these or other makes?





 





Do all generator types (diesel, propane,
LNG, gasoline) run more efficiently when fully loaded?  or is this only
the case with diesel (so i've heard)?





 





thanks,





benn

DayStar Renewable Energy Inc. 





b...@daystarsolar.ca





780-906-7807 





HAVE A SUNNY DAY 





 





CONFIDENTIALITY
NOTICE:   
This email, including any attachments, contains information from DayStar
Renewable Energy Inc. and/or its affiliates, which may be confidential or
privileged. The information is intended to be for the use of the individual or
entity named above. If you are not the intended recipient, be aware that any
disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this information is
prohibited. If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender
immediately by "reply to sender only" message and destroy all
electronic and hard copies of the communication, including attachments.





 



 







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Re: [RE-wrenches] Additional Battery Charger

[Allan Sindelar]

Benn,
Seconding Mick's jolliness...
In last year's Home Power generators article, there's a photo of an
Outback Quad Stack of four inverters, installed circa 2006. The two
center inverters are set up to invert, and are controlled by the Hub-10
and Mate, but they're really there only as chargers, to effectively
charge from a 20K Onan gennie into a 2200 A/hr battery. The center
VFX3648 units have the added turbo fans on their covers for additional
cooling when charging, a suggestion made by Chris Freitas, then of
Outback.

We needed 20KW at our 6,600' elevation. You're closer to sea level, so
12KW is just a bit undersized for four inverters. But they can be set
to limit AC input below max. Just remember to leave some headroom for
additional house loads that might come on while charging - the FXes
aren't very good at hard-limiting pass-through AC current. You might
also save a few hundred bucks by adding FX3048s, with a lower charge
rate - I think they're compatible with the higher-output VFXes.










Allan Sindelar
Allan@positiveenergysolar.com
NABCEP Certified Photovoltaic Installer
EE98J Journeyman Electrician
Positive Energy, Inc.
3201 Calle Marie
Santa Fe, New Mexico 87507
505 424-1112
www.positiveenergysolar.com



On 6/17/2010 8:33 PM, Mick Abraham wrote:
Hello, Benn~
  
As regards Iota: these deliver a constant voltage...in fact they
strongly resemble a DC power supply. A "45 amp" Iota type charger would
deliver that rated amperage only so long as the battery voltage is low
relative to the charger's output. In my experience these type chargers
taper down on the amps shortly after the recharge begins. That's OK if
one has "always on" utility power but not so OK if one wants big amps
so the generator can be shut off sooner. 
  
***
  
In contrast, the Outback type charger is "constant current" until the
battery reaches approximately 80% state of charge...the point where the
bulk/absorption voltage is seen on the battery. By pulsing with voltage
well above the bulk voltage, the Outback unit strives to pump that 45
amps. When the battery comes up to the bulk voltage level the Outback
type charger switches to "constant voltage" mode for the absorption
phase. 
  
Summary: There's a reason why the Iota type charger is less expensive
per rated amp compared to some other types. 
  

  
IBE chargers are oriented to the forklift world and they go way back in
off grid energy. Others could speak better than I about their charge
quality & reliability, but I estimate both to be high. Cost is also
high, however.
  
***
  
If IBE level funding is seriously on the radar screen, one should
compare the cost of that against one or more additional Outback
inverter/chargers. One could ignore the inverting function and maybe
still come out ahead. All the chargers would work together as a single
unit in that event because of the network capability...and you get the
time delay feature where the chargers wait 30 seconds before they throw
the load onto the generator. Inverting redundancy, too...
  
The above suggestion (to use an inverter/charger just to replace a high
end charger) pencils out very well for the lower cost modified square
wave inverter/chargers from Magnum Energy, but those are 12v/24v only.
48v Magnum units are pure sine so the cost goes back up.
  
Jolliness,  
  
Mick Abraham, Proprietor
  www.abrahamsolar.com
  
Voice: 970-731-4675
  
  
  On Thu, Jun 17, 2010 at 5:21 PM, benn
kilburn 
wrote:
  
G'day Wrenches,


 I'm looking for an additional charger(s) to increase the
charging capacity from the back-up 12 kW Onan generator into the 1200
Ah battery.  Right now the generator's full potential output is limited
by the charging capacity of the two VFX3648's which have a max charge
output of 45A each.


The idea here is to use the generator to its full charging
capacity when it is running, taking in to consideration that the
generator will feed any AC loads before charging the battery. 


Iota and IBE chargers have been suggested.  Any comments on
these or other makes?


Do all generator types (diesel, propane, LNG, gasoline) run
more efficiently when fully loaded?  or is this only the case with
diesel (so i've heard)?


thanks,
benn
DayStar Renewable Energy Inc. 

b...@daystarsolar.ca
780-906-7807 
HAVE A SUNNY DAY



CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE:    This email, including any
attachments, contains information from DayStar Renewable Energy Inc.
and/or its affiliates, which may be confidential or privileged. The
information is intended to be for the use of the individual or entity
named above. If you are not the intended recipient, be aware that any
disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this
information is prohibited. If you have received this email in error,
please notify the sender immediat

Re: [RE-wrenches] Additional Battery Charger

[Darryl Thayer]

Use caution here the battery cycles depends upon DOD and recharge rate.  I have 
found that recharge rates over C/10 shorten battery life.  And if you measure 
the recharge voltage absorb volts, you can not push even that hard except when 
the battery is low.  Further charge voltage gets to high the charge efficiency 
get lower.  
 
As to generators any SI (spark ignition) engine (also called a premix engine) 
will have lower efficiency at lower loads, the CI (compression Ignition) engine 
is more tolerant of part load keeping its efficiency high at part load.  
 
Darryl

--- On Thu, 6/17/10, bob  wrote:


From: bob 
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Additional Battery Charger
To: "'RE-wrenches'" 
Date: Thursday, June 17, 2010, 8:19 PM








Look into the Magnum inverters as 2nd chargers, very good chargers with 
generators.
 
I have done this many times, in the case of failure of the other inverters for 
some reason, run wires and be back up and running.
I think the 4448 inverter is 60 amps @ 48 volts with an input of 16 or so amps 
AC.
 
Later,
Bob 
 


From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org 
[mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of benn kilburn
Sent: Thursday, June 17, 2010 7:22 PM
To: Wrenches
Subject: [RE-wrenches] Additional Battery Charger
 
G'day Wrenches,

 

 I'm looking for an additional charger(s) to increase the charging capacity 
from the back-up 12 kW Onan generator into the 1200 Ah battery.  Right now the 
generator's full potential output is limited by the charging capacity of the 
two VFX3648's which have a max charge output of 45A each.

 

The idea here is to use the generator to its full charging capacity when it is 
running, taking in to consideration that the generator will feed any AC loads 
before charging the battery. 

 

Iota and IBE chargers have been suggested.  Any comments on these or other 
makes?

 

Do all generator types (diesel, propane, LNG, gasoline) run more efficiently 
when fully loaded?  or is this only the case with diesel (so i've heard)?

 

thanks,

benn
DayStar Renewable Energy Inc. 


b...@daystarsolar.ca

780-906-7807 

HAVE A SUNNY DAY 

 

CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE:    This email, including any attachments, contains 
information from DayStar Renewable Energy Inc. and/or its affiliates, which may 
be confidential or privileged. The information is intended to be for the use of 
the individual or entity named above. If you are not the intended recipient, be 
aware that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this 
information is prohibited. If you have received this email in error, please 
notify the sender immediately by "reply to sender only" message and destroy all 
electronic and hard copies of the communication, including attachments.
 
 



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Re: [RE-wrenches] Additional Battery Charger

[bob]

Look into the Magnum inverters as 2nd chargers, very good chargers with
generators.

 

I have done this many times, in the case of failure of the other inverters
for some reason, run wires and be back up and running.

I think the 4448 inverter is 60 amps @ 48 volts with an input of 16 or so
amps AC.

 

Later,

Bob 

 

From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org
[mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of benn kilburn
Sent: Thursday, June 17, 2010 7:22 PM
To: Wrenches
Subject: [RE-wrenches] Additional Battery Charger

 

G'day Wrenches,

 

 I'm looking for an additional charger(s) to increase the charging capacity
from the back-up 12 kW Onan generator into the 1200 Ah battery.  Right now
the generator's full potential output is limited by the charging capacity of
the two VFX3648's which have a max charge output of 45A each.

 

The idea here is to use the generator to its full charging capacity when it
is running, taking in to consideration that the generator will feed any AC
loads before charging the battery. 

 

Iota and IBE chargers have been suggested.  Any comments on these or other
makes?

 

Do all generator types (diesel, propane, LNG, gasoline) run more efficiently
when fully loaded?  or is this only the case with diesel (so i've heard)?

 

thanks,

benn
DayStar Renewable Energy Inc. 

b...@daystarsolar.ca

780-906-7807 

HAVE A SUNNY DAY 

 

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[RE-wrenches] Additional Battery Charger

[Dana]

I use and have used [1] 48 volt-15 amp or [2] 24 vdc - 25 or
40 amp IOTA chargers in series for 48 vdc @ more than15 amps
for years with great results. They take really poor quality
power and put out just fine, and are super efficient as in
great watts per gallon of dead dinosaur burned.

 

Thanks,  Dana Orzel

 

Great Solar Works, Inc

E - d...@solarwork.com

V - 970.626.5253

F - 970.626.4140

C - 970.209.4076

web - www.solarwork.com

Responsible Technologies for Responsible People since 1988"

 

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Re: [RE-wrenches] Additional Battery Charger

[Mick Abraham]

Hello, Benn~

As regards Iota: these deliver a constant voltage...in fact they strongly
resemble a DC power supply. A "45 amp" Iota type charger would deliver that
rated amperage only so long as the battery voltage is low relative to the
charger's output. In my experience these type chargers taper down on the
amps shortly after the recharge begins. That's OK if one has "always on"
utility power but not so OK if one wants big amps so the generator can be
shut off sooner.

***

In contrast, the Outback type charger is "constant current" until the
battery reaches approximately 80% state of charge...the point where the
bulk/absorption voltage is seen on the battery. By pulsing with voltage well
above the bulk voltage, the Outback unit strives to pump that 45 amps. When
the battery comes up to the bulk voltage level the Outback type charger
switches to "constant voltage" mode for the absorption phase.

Summary: There's a reason why the Iota type charger is less expensive per
rated amp compared to some other types.



IBE chargers are oriented to the forklift world and they go way back in off
grid energy. Others could speak better than I about their charge quality &
reliability, but I estimate both to be high. Cost is also high, however.

***

If IBE level funding is seriously on the radar screen, one should compare
the cost of that against one or more additional Outback inverter/chargers.
One could ignore the inverting function and maybe still come out ahead. All
the chargers would work together as a single unit in that event because of
the network capability...and you get the time delay feature where the
chargers wait 30 seconds before they throw the load onto the generator.
Inverting redundancy, too...

The above suggestion (to use an inverter/charger just to replace a high end
charger) pencils out very well for the lower cost modified square wave
inverter/chargers from Magnum Energy, but those are 12v/24v only. 48v Magnum
units are pure sine so the cost goes back up.

Jolliness,

Mick Abraham, Proprietor
www.abrahamsolar.com

Voice: 970-731-4675


On Thu, Jun 17, 2010 at 5:21 PM, benn kilburn  wrote:

>  G'day Wrenches,
>
>  I'm looking for an additional charger(s) to increase the charging capacity
> from the back-up 12 kW Onan generator into the 1200 Ah battery.  Right now
> the generator's full potential output is limited by the charging capacity of
> the two VFX3648's which have a max charge output of 45A each.
>
> The idea here is to use the generator to its full charging capacity when it
> is running, taking in to consideration that the generator will feed any AC
> loads before charging the battery.
>
> Iota and IBE chargers have been suggested.  Any comments on these or other
> makes?
>
> Do all generator types (diesel, propane, LNG, gasoline) run more
> efficiently when fully loaded?  or is this only the case with diesel (so
> i've heard)?
>
> thanks,
> benn
> DayStar Renewable Energy Inc.
> b...@daystarsolar.ca
> 780-906-7807
> HAVE A SUNNY DAY
>
> *CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE:*This email, including any attachments,
> contains information from DayStar Renewable Energy Inc. and/or its
> affiliates, which may be confidential or privileged. The information is
> intended to be for the use of the individual or entity named above. If you
> are not the intended recipient, be aware that any disclosure, copying,
> distribution or use of the contents of this information is prohibited. If
> you have received this email in error, please notify the sender immediately
> by "reply to sender only" message and destroy all electronic and hard copies
> of the communication, including attachments.
>
>
>
> --
> Enter for a chance to get your town photo on Bing.ca! Submit a Photo Now!
> 
>
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[RE-wrenches] Additional Battery Charger

[benn kilburn]

G'day Wrenches,
 I'm looking for an additional charger(s) to increase the charging capacity 
from the back-up 12 kW Onan generator into the 1200 Ah battery.  Right now the 
generator's full potential output is limited by the charging capacity of the 
two VFX3648's which have a max charge output of 45A each.
The idea here is to use the generator to its full charging capacity when it is 
running, taking in to consideration that the generator will feed any AC loads 
before charging the battery. 
Iota and IBE chargers have been suggested.  Any comments on these or other 
makes?
Do all generator types (diesel, propane, LNG, gasoline) run more efficiently 
when fully loaded?  or is this only the case with diesel (so i've heard)?
thanks,benn
DayStar Renewable Energy Inc. b...@daystarsolar.ca780-906-7807 HAVE A SUNNY DAY



CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE:This email, including any attachments, contains 
information from DayStar Renewable Energy Inc. and/or its affiliates, which may 
be confidential or privileged. The information is intended to be for the use of 
the individual or entity named above. If you are not the intended recipient, be 
aware that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this 
information is prohibited. If you have received this email in error, please 
notify the sender immediately by "reply to sender only" message and destroy all 
electronic and hard copies of the communication, including attachments.

  
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