Re: [RE-wrenches] Battery Transport

[Glenn Burt]

I just saw a Rolls safety data sheet for their FLA batteries that has a section 
discussing transport requirements and precautions.
It is on their website.

-Original Message-
From: "Ray" <r...@solarray.com>
Sent: ‎5/‎22/‎2017 20:01
To: "RE-wrenches" <re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org>
Subject: [RE-wrenches] Battery Transport

HI All;

I was wondering if anyone had run into to trouble or special 
requirements or regulations when hauling new or dead lead acid batteries 
to and from job sites.  Do we need to be DOT approved/ registered?  This 
seems like a special case, since regular shipping companies do not 
deliver to these remote areas.

The regulations etc are amazingly daunting.  In the past, I've 
considered it a case of a contractor transporting building materials to 
the job site. We're not a carrier, that delivers packages for others for 
a living.   We have rented a truck with a DOT# when we need something 
over the 10,000 lb gross vehicle limit, like a 1 ton truck.  I'm hoping 
that would be adequate.

Thanks in advance for your advice,

-- 
R. Ray Walters
Chief Technical Officer, RemoteSolar.com
BS Mech Engineering, 1988
Former NABCEP Certified, 2004-2016
Licensed Master ELectrician, Colorado
303 505-8760

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Re: [RE-wrenches] Battery Transport

[Nick Soleil]

I've gone through the hazardous materials transportation training this year and 
have received a certification for transporting our LFP based AC Batteries.  
Title 49 Code of Federal Regulations (CFR-49) applies to the transport of 
Lithium-Ion batteries by road and highway shippers and IATA regulations apply 
to shipments by air.


My understanding is that generally speaking, a company that is delivering 
batteries as part of their regular business do not need any specific 
certification, but should be trained on safe transportation procedures.  If you 
are a driver that is delivering the batteries for a shipping company, then you 
must be more familiar with the labeling and packaging requirements and training 
is required.


CFR-49, Part 172, Subpart H states that if you are a Hazmat employee, you 
should be trained to properly transport hazardous materials.  The employer is 
ultimately responsible for verifying that the employee is capable of safely 
transporting these materials, but no specific certification is required.



Cordially,

Nick Soleil

Enphase Energy | Field Applications Engineer


(707) 763-4784 x7267  // office

(707) 321-2937  // cell

[Enphase_esig_logo6.jpg]<https://enphase.com/>


Energy Evolved<http://enphase.com> ™


Powering What’s Next™ | The Enphase Energy Management System<http://ow.ly/HbVS3>


NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installer #03262011-300

California C10 Licensed Electrician #986315

Texas Master Electrician #284451


“Don’t get me wrong: I love nuclear energy! It’s just that I prefer fusion to 
fission. And it just so happens that there’s an enormous fusion reactor safely 
banked a few million miles from us. It delivers more than we could ever use in 
just about 8 minutes. And it’s wireless!”

- William McDonough




From: RE-wrenches <re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org> on behalf of Roy 
Butler <r...@four-winds-energy.com>
Sent: Wednesday, May 24, 2017 6:36 AM
To: re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Battery Transport

In the early 90s and for 2 years, I drove for an expedited freight
company. I had my radmat, hazmat and secret service endorsements.
We had to know when to placard when under a hazmat load, where and when
we could and could not travel, safe haven locations, etc.

It's the RQ amount of the hazardous substance that dictates the
procedure. The RQ tables can be found here:
https://www.phmsa.dot.gov/staticfiles/PHMSA/DownloadableFiles/Files/172_101_appa.pdf

When I started my RE company 21 years ago, the first thing I did was
look into the potential issue of transporting batteries.
The RQ amount for sulfuric acid or sodium hydroxide is 1000
pounds.that's not battery weight, it's the electrolyte weight. And
that's a LOT of battery!

Of course, Lithium is likely a different story so all I can suggest is
research it. So, as others have stated, proper securing of the load,
obeying traffic laws, etc. is sufficient.

Roy Butler
NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installer®
Four Winds Renewable Energy, LLC
8902 Route 46, Arkport, NY 14807
607-324-9747  www.four-winds-energy.com<http://www.four-winds-energy.com>

Check out the Annual Small Wind Conference
A Gathering of Installers, Manufacturers, Dealers, & Distributors
www.smallwindconference.com<http://www.smallwindconference.com>

Although no trees were killed in the sending of this message,
a large number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced.



On 5/24/2017 7:40 AM, Dana wrote:
> If you ask the folks that regulate our lives with lots of rule to save us 
> from ourselves, of course you must abide by the rules that vary state to 
> state. I have hauled batteries very openly, well secured, at or below the 
> speed limit for 29 years on a specially constructed 3 ton capacity trailer 
> with an overhead I-beam similar to a propane tank trailer. I have hauled 
> state to state from WA - SoCal - CO to ID & have never had a state or local 
> patrol question what I am doing. I do not think it is a common enough site to 
> arise interest. I have noticed the placarding on my delivery haulers and they 
> do not even alter their placards.
> If you ask I am sure there are regulations.
>
> 
> Dana Orzel   Great Solar Works, Inc.
> 208.721.7003   d...@solarwork.com
> Idaho Contractor - # 028765  Idaho PV # 028374
> NABCEP # 051112-136   
> www.solarwork.biz<http://www.solarwork.biz>
> "Responsible Technologies for Responsible People since 1988"
>  Please consider the environment before printing this email.
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On 
> Behalf Of Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar
> Sent: Tuesday, Ma

Re: [RE-wrenches] Battery Transport

[Roy Butler]

In the early 90s and for 2 years, I drove for an expedited freight 
company. I had my radmat, hazmat and secret service endorsements.
We had to know when to placard when under a hazmat load, where and when 
we could and could not travel, safe haven locations, etc.


It's the RQ amount of the hazardous substance that dictates the 
procedure. The RQ tables can be found here:

https://www.phmsa.dot.gov/staticfiles/PHMSA/DownloadableFiles/Files/172_101_appa.pdf

When I started my RE company 21 years ago, the first thing I did was 
look into the potential issue of transporting batteries.
The RQ amount for sulfuric acid or sodium hydroxide is 1000 
pounds.that's not battery weight, it's the electrolyte weight. And 
that's a LOT of battery!


Of course, Lithium is likely a different story so all I can suggest is 
research it. So, as others have stated, proper securing of the load, 
obeying traffic laws, etc. is sufficient.


Roy Butler
NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installer®
Four Winds Renewable Energy, LLC
8902 Route 46, Arkport, NY 14807
607-324-9747  www.four-winds-energy.com

Check out the Annual Small Wind Conference
A Gathering of Installers, Manufacturers, Dealers, & Distributors
www.smallwindconference.com

Although no trees were killed in the sending of this message,
a large number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced.




On 5/24/2017 7:40 AM, Dana wrote:

If you ask the folks that regulate our lives with lots of rule to save us from 
ourselves, of course you must abide by the rules that vary state to state. I have 
hauled batteries very openly, well secured, at or below the speed limit for 29 
years on a specially constructed 3 ton capacity trailer with an overhead I-beam 
similar to a propane tank trailer. I have hauled state to state from WA - SoCal - 
CO to ID & have never had a state or local patrol question what I am doing. I 
do not think it is a common enough site to arise interest. I have noticed the 
placarding on my delivery haulers and they do not even alter their placards.
If you ask I am sure there are regulations.


Dana Orzel   Great Solar Works, Inc.
208.721.7003   d...@solarwork.com
Idaho Contractor - # 028765  Idaho PV # 028374
NABCEP # 051112-136   www.solarwork.biz
"Responsible Technologies for Responsible People since 1988"
 Please consider the environment before printing this email.


-Original Message-
From: RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf 
Of Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar
Sent: Tuesday, May 23, 2017 11:54 AM
To: RE-wrenches <re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org>
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Battery Transport

No problems here in the land of Fruits and Nuts. Breadbasket of the world and 
plenty of regulations :)

Now that you have brought this up maybe it will happen?  Soligent has been 
great for my deliveries. I often use a local battery dealer near the owner in 
their state or country. That way the owner gets a local shop and I do not have 
to worry about returns.

I just did a system down to Guatemala and put it all in the small shipping 
container. Mostly pretested and ready to go once they get it out of customs...

Most all of my work is extreme rural and I rarely get near a big city.
Hope this helps!

Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar
"we go where powerlines don't"
http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/
e-mail  offgridso...@sti.net
text 209 813 0060


HI All;

I was wondering if anyone had run into to trouble or special
requirements or regulations when hauling new or dead lead acid
batteries to and from job sites.  Do we need to be DOT approved/
registered?  This seems like a special case, since regular shipping
companies do not deliver to these remote areas.

The regulations etc are amazingly daunting.  In the past, I've
considered it a case of a contractor transporting building materials
to the job site. We're not a carrier, that delivers packages for others for
a living.   We have rented a truck with a DOT# when we need something
over the 10,000 lb gross vehicle limit, like a 1 ton truck.  I'm
hoping that would be adequate.

Thanks in advance for your advice,

--
R. Ray Walters
Chief Technical Officer, RemoteSolar.com BS Mech Engineering, 1988
Former NABCEP Certified, 2004-2016 Licensed Master ELectrician,
Colorado
303 505-8760

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[RE-wrenches] Battery Transport

[Dana]

If you ask the folks that regulate our lives with lots of rule to save us from 
ourselves, of course you must abide by the rules that vary state to state. I 
have hauled batteries very openly, well secured, at or below the speed limit 
for 29 years on a specially constructed 3 ton capacity trailer with an overhead 
I-beam similar to a propane tank trailer. I have hauled state to state from WA 
- SoCal - CO to ID & have never had a state or local patrol question what I am 
doing. I do not think it is a common enough site to arise interest. I have 
noticed the placarding on my delivery haulers and they do not even alter their 
placards.
If you ask I am sure there are regulations.


Dana Orzel   Great Solar Works, Inc. 
208.721.7003   d...@solarwork.com
Idaho Contractor - # 028765  Idaho PV # 028374
NABCEP # 051112-136   www.solarwork.biz
"Responsible Technologies for Responsible People since 1988"  
 Please consider the environment before printing this email.


-Original Message-
From: RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf 
Of Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar
Sent: Tuesday, May 23, 2017 11:54 AM
To: RE-wrenches <re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org>
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Battery Transport

No problems here in the land of Fruits and Nuts. Breadbasket of the world and 
plenty of regulations :)

Now that you have brought this up maybe it will happen?  Soligent has been 
great for my deliveries. I often use a local battery dealer near the owner in 
their state or country. That way the owner gets a local shop and I do not have 
to worry about returns.

I just did a system down to Guatemala and put it all in the small shipping 
container. Mostly pretested and ready to go once they get it out of customs...

Most all of my work is extreme rural and I rarely get near a big city.
Hope this helps!

Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar
"we go where powerlines don't"
http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/
e-mail  offgridso...@sti.net
text 209 813 0060

> HI All;
>
> I was wondering if anyone had run into to trouble or special 
> requirements or regulations when hauling new or dead lead acid 
> batteries to and from job sites.  Do we need to be DOT approved/ 
> registered?  This seems like a special case, since regular shipping 
> companies do not deliver to these remote areas.
>
> The regulations etc are amazingly daunting.  In the past, I've 
> considered it a case of a contractor transporting building materials 
> to the job site. We're not a carrier, that delivers packages for others for
> a living.   We have rented a truck with a DOT# when we need something
> over the 10,000 lb gross vehicle limit, like a 1 ton truck.  I'm 
> hoping that would be adequate.
>
> Thanks in advance for your advice,
>
> --
> R. Ray Walters
> Chief Technical Officer, RemoteSolar.com BS Mech Engineering, 1988 
> Former NABCEP Certified, 2004-2016 Licensed Master ELectrician, 
> Colorado
> 303 505-8760
>
> ___
> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance
>
> List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org
>
> Change listserver email address & settings:
> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Battery Transport

[Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar]

No problems here in the land of Fruits and Nuts. Breadbasket of the world
and plenty of regulations :)

Now that you have brought this up maybe it will happen?  Soligent has been
great for my deliveries. I often use a local battery dealer near the owner
in their state or country. That way the owner gets a local shop and I do
not have to worry about returns.

I just did a system down to Guatemala and put it all in the small shipping
container. Mostly pretested and ready to go once they get it out of
customs...

Most all of my work is extreme rural and I rarely get near a big city.
Hope this helps!

Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar
"we go where powerlines don't"
http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/
e-mail  offgridso...@sti.net
text 209 813 0060

> HI All;
>
> I was wondering if anyone had run into to trouble or special
> requirements or regulations when hauling new or dead lead acid batteries
> to and from job sites.  Do we need to be DOT approved/ registered?  This
> seems like a special case, since regular shipping companies do not
> deliver to these remote areas.
>
> The regulations etc are amazingly daunting.  In the past, I've
> considered it a case of a contractor transporting building materials to
> the job site. We're not a carrier, that delivers packages for others for
> a living.   We have rented a truck with a DOT# when we need something
> over the 10,000 lb gross vehicle limit, like a 1 ton truck.  I'm hoping
> that would be adequate.
>
> Thanks in advance for your advice,
>
> --
> R. Ray Walters
> Chief Technical Officer, RemoteSolar.com
> BS Mech Engineering, 1988
> Former NABCEP Certified, 2004-2016
> Licensed Master ELectrician, Colorado
> 303 505-8760
>
> ___
> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance
>
> List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org
>
> Change listserver email address & settings:
> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
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>
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>




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Re: [RE-wrenches] Battery Transport

[Starlight Solar Power Systems]

Daunting, an excellent description. Means intimidating, formidable, 
disconcerting, unnerving, unsettling, dismaying; discouraging, disheartening, 
and so on. I had to become Hazmat Certified to ship lithium ion batteries….so, 
yes to all the synonyms.

49 CFR 173 regulates shipment and transport of batteries. They are Class 8 
dangerous goods. Here’s some info about you transporting. 

"When packaged in accordance with 49 CFR 173.159 and transported by highway or 
rail, lead acid batteries are not subject to any other DOT requirements if all 
of the following conditions are met:

• There are no other hazardous materials in the same vehicle.
• The batteries are loaded or braced to prevent damage and short 
circuits.
• Any other material loaded in the vehicle must be blocked, braced, or 
otherwise secured to prevent contact with or damage to the batteries.
• The vehicle carries material offered only by the battery shipper.
(close quote)

I have not studied it but I think there is some exclusions for batteries being 
transported for recycling. See” 
https://www.ecfr.gov/cgi-bin/text-idx?SID=b79008b14fb36fd528cc84f87ed9af4e=true=pt40.27.266=div5#sp40.29.266.g
 subpart G

Have fun.
Larry




On May 22, 2017, at 5:01 PM, Ray  wrote:

HI All;

I was wondering if anyone had run into to trouble or special requirements or 
regulations when hauling new or dead lead acid batteries to and from job sites. 
 Do we need to be DOT approved/ registered?  This seems like a special case, 
since regular shipping companies do not deliver to these remote areas.

The regulations etc are amazingly daunting.  In the past, I've considered it a 
case of a contractor transporting building materials to the job site. We're not 
a carrier, that delivers packages for others for a living.   We have rented a 
truck with a DOT# when we need something over the 10,000 lb gross vehicle 
limit, like a 1 ton truck.  I'm hoping that would be adequate.

Thanks in advance for your advice,

-- 
R. Ray Walters
Chief Technical Officer, RemoteSolar.com
BS Mech Engineering, 1988
Former NABCEP Certified, 2004-2016
Licensed Master ELectrician, Colorado
303 505-8760

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[RE-wrenches] Battery Transport

[Ray]

HI All;

I was wondering if anyone had run into to trouble or special 
requirements or regulations when hauling new or dead lead acid batteries 
to and from job sites.  Do we need to be DOT approved/ registered?  This 
seems like a special case, since regular shipping companies do not 
deliver to these remote areas.


The regulations etc are amazingly daunting.  In the past, I've 
considered it a case of a contractor transporting building materials to 
the job site. We're not a carrier, that delivers packages for others for 
a living.   We have rented a truck with a DOT# when we need something 
over the 10,000 lb gross vehicle limit, like a 1 ton truck.  I'm hoping 
that would be adequate.


Thanks in advance for your advice,

--
R. Ray Walters
Chief Technical Officer, RemoteSolar.com
BS Mech Engineering, 1988
Former NABCEP Certified, 2004-2016
Licensed Master ELectrician, Colorado
303 505-8760

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