Re: [RE-wrenches] Building integrated thermal collectors?
Mick, We are about to do a Wagner system about 50 SQM. It is a top German product, definitely worth a look. Carl Emerson Manager Free Power Ltd. Auckland, New Zealand. -Original Message- From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of mick abraham Sent: 29 December 2008 7:04 a.m. To: RE-wrenches Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Building integrated thermal collectors? Good points made, Karl...esp the one about every btu reduces the load on the backup water heater. My takeaway from that is that even if the Dawn system can only preheat water for the main heater, that's still something. I assume that the solar fraction could never reach 100%, but that's often the case anyway. I plan to write to Velux to learn more about their flashed/glazed collector system. Interested parties may contact me off list and I'll forward what I get. (Disclosure: I have no relationship with and get no benefit from Velux for forwarding their information. Mick Abraham, Proprietor www.abrahamsolar.com Voice: 970-731-4675 -- Original Message --- From: Karl Schwingel k...@northwindrenewable.com To: m...@abrahamsolar.com, RE-wrenches re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Sent: Sun, 28 Dec 2008 11:44:35 -0600 Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Building integrated thermal collectors? I will beg to differ on the space heating properties. domestic hot water can use any degree above about 50 degF here in wisconsin. every btu reduces the load on the backup water heater. pool heating is just fine with anything above 80 degrees or so (pool temps 80-85 deg) and space heating is the tricky one because it needs temps minimum of 60 deg above ambient. say 80 deg on a 20 deg winter day for infloor heating, much higher for fan coils and other convective devices. There's someone here in the upper midwest peddling something similar to the amercian solar air to water heater, and that's fine, but what happens when something fails and the HX freezes. I've heard too many stories about the HX's freezing overnight and thawing when the sun comes out, presto, impromptu indoor pool. not on my watch cap'n. what worries me is that dawn solar is peddling their collector to a potential customer as a space heating option. he wants us to install it, and I'm willing to do it, but ONLY with a huge signed neon rotating, I TOLD YOU SO!!!. karl out. mick abraham wrote: Thanks, Kurt Ian~ The Dawn Solar arrangement makes me think of a similar looking setup from American Solar: http://americansolar.com/product-solar-roof.htm The American Solar setup heats air which they claim can then heat water. Hmm. My inner geek suspects that both of these systems would yield only low temperature rise...which would be OK for pool heating or even for space heating...but for DHW? Hmm. Both of these systems remind me of unglazed swimming pool collectors. Glass is old school, low tech, breakable, and there's that nagging low R-value problem. Even so, glass really has some marvelous properties. The greenhouse effect makes glass behave similar to a selective surface. Ian's note about the Velux integrated collectors is also appreciated. There are some excellent how to videos on the Velux website which may be of interest to other List members. Anyone in the SW Rockies who might be interested in pooling an order for Velux gear in order to save freight costs may contact me off list. Thanks again, Mick Abraham, Proprietor www.abrahamsolar.com Voice: 970-731-4675 -- Original Message --- From: Kurt Albershardt i...@es-ee.com To: RE-wrenches re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Sent: Sat, 27 Dec 2008 09:36:27 -0800 Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Building integrated thermal collectors? --On Saturday, December 27, 2008 8:08 AM -0700 mick abraham m...@abrahamsolar.com wrote: I'm looking for thermal collectors which integrate into the roof of the building. These would heat glycol to modest temperatures, for domestic hot water. Dawn Solar uses a design which effectively puts radiant floor tubing just below the metal roof panels. They were not particularly forthcoming when I asked for more info. I suspect you could use Rehau Raupanel in a similar fashion. http://dawnsolar.com/gallery/TherDSS-StandingSeamClip.JPG ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org --- End of Original Message
Re: [RE-wrenches] Building integrated thermal collectors?
Good points made, Karl...esp the one about every btu reduces the load on the backup water heater. My takeaway from that is that even if the Dawn system can only preheat water for the main heater, that's still something. I assume that the solar fraction could never reach 100%, but that's often the case anyway. I plan to write to Velux to learn more about their flashed/glazed collector system. Interested parties may contact me off list and I'll forward what I get. (Disclosure: I have no relationship with and get no benefit from Velux for forwarding their information. Mick Abraham, Proprietor www.abrahamsolar.com Voice: 970-731-4675 -- Original Message --- From: Karl Schwingel k...@northwindrenewable.com To: m...@abrahamsolar.com, RE-wrenches re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Sent: Sun, 28 Dec 2008 11:44:35 -0600 Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Building integrated thermal collectors? I will beg to differ on the space heating properties. domestic hot water can use any degree above about 50 degF here in wisconsin. every btu reduces the load on the backup water heater. pool heating is just fine with anything above 80 degrees or so (pool temps 80-85 deg) and space heating is the tricky one because it needs temps minimum of 60 deg above ambient. say 80 deg on a 20 deg winter day for infloor heating, much higher for fan coils and other convective devices. There's someone here in the upper midwest peddling something similar to the amercian solar air to water heater, and that's fine, but what happens when something fails and the HX freezes. I've heard too many stories about the HX's freezing overnight and thawing when the sun comes out, presto, impromptu indoor pool. not on my watch cap'n. what worries me is that dawn solar is peddling their collector to a potential customer as a space heating option. he wants us to install it, and I'm willing to do it, but ONLY with a huge signed neon rotating, I TOLD YOU SO!!!. karl out. mick abraham wrote: Thanks, Kurt Ian~ The Dawn Solar arrangement makes me think of a similar looking setup from American Solar: http://americansolar.com/product-solar-roof.htm The American Solar setup heats air which they claim can then heat water. Hmm. My inner geek suspects that both of these systems would yield only low temperature rise...which would be OK for pool heating or even for space heating...but for DHW? Hmm. Both of these systems remind me of unglazed swimming pool collectors. Glass is old school, low tech, breakable, and there's that nagging low R-value problem. Even so, glass really has some marvelous properties. The greenhouse effect makes glass behave similar to a selective surface. Ian's note about the Velux integrated collectors is also appreciated. There are some excellent how to videos on the Velux website which may be of interest to other List members. Anyone in the SW Rockies who might be interested in pooling an order for Velux gear in order to save freight costs may contact me off list. Thanks again, Mick Abraham, Proprietor www.abrahamsolar.com Voice: 970-731-4675 -- Original Message --- From: Kurt Albershardt i...@es-ee.com To: RE-wrenches re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Sent: Sat, 27 Dec 2008 09:36:27 -0800 Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Building integrated thermal collectors? --On Saturday, December 27, 2008 8:08 AM -0700 mick abraham m...@abrahamsolar.com wrote: I'm looking for thermal collectors which integrate into the roof of the building. These would heat glycol to modest temperatures, for domestic hot water. Dawn Solar uses a design which effectively puts radiant floor tubing just below the metal roof panels. They were not particularly forthcoming when I asked for more info. I suspect you could use Rehau Raupanel in a similar fashion. http://dawnsolar.com/gallery/TherDSS-StandingSeamClip.JPG ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org --- End of Original Message --- ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org -- Karl Schwingel
[RE-wrenches] Building integrated thermal collectors?
Greetings, I'm looking for thermal collectors which integrate into the roof of the building. These would heat glycol to modest temperatures, for domestic hot water. Any leads for this type product...on the List or off...would be appreciated. Mick Abraham, Proprietor www.abrahamsolar.com Voice: 970-731-4675 ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Building integrated thermal collectors?
Hi Mick, Have you looked at the Velux system? The collectors are installed about the same way as skylights are. I don't have any experience with this system, but will forward (off-list) some photos I received. Best, Ian Greetings, I'm looking for thermal collectors which integrate into the roof of the building. These would heat glycol to modest temperatures, for domestic hot water. Any leads for this type product...on the List or off...would be appreciated. Mick Abraham, Proprietor http://www.abrahamsolar.com/www.abrahamsolar.com Voice: 970-731-4675 _ -- Ian Woofenden ian.woofen...@homepower.com, Senior Editor, Home Power magazine Subscriptions: $24.95 per year PO Box 520, Ashland, OR 97520 USA 800-707-6585 (US), 541-512-0220 or download free sample issue at http://www.homepower.com___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Building integrated thermal collectors?
--On Saturday, December 27, 2008 8:08 AM -0700 mick abraham m...@abrahamsolar.com wrote: I'm looking for thermal collectors which integrate into the roof of the building. These would heat glycol to modest temperatures, for domestic hot water. Dawn Solar uses a design which effectively puts radiant floor tubing just below the metal roof panels. They were not particularly forthcoming when I asked for more info. I suspect you could use Rehau Raupanel in a similar fashion. http://dawnsolar.com/gallery/TherDSS-StandingSeamClip.JPG ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Building integrated thermal collectors?
Thanks, Kurt Ian~ The Dawn Solar arrangement makes me think of a similar looking setup from American Solar: http://americansolar.com/product-solar-roof.htm The American Solar setup heats air which they claim can then heat water. Hmm. My inner geek suspects that both of these systems would yield only low temperature rise...which would be OK for pool heating or even for space heating...but for DHW? Hmm. Both of these systems remind me of unglazed swimming pool collectors. Glass is old school, low tech, breakable, and there's that nagging low R-value problem. Even so, glass really has some marvelous properties. The greenhouse effect makes glass behave similar to a selective surface. Ian's note about the Velux integrated collectors is also appreciated. There are some excellent how to videos on the Velux website which may be of interest to other List members. Anyone in the SW Rockies who might be interested in pooling an order for Velux gear in order to save freight costs may contact me off list. Thanks again, Mick Abraham, Proprietor www.abrahamsolar.com Voice: 970-731-4675 -- Original Message --- From: Kurt Albershardt i...@es-ee.com To: RE-wrenches re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Sent: Sat, 27 Dec 2008 09:36:27 -0800 Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Building integrated thermal collectors? --On Saturday, December 27, 2008 8:08 AM -0700 mick abraham m...@abrahamsolar.com wrote: I'm looking for thermal collectors which integrate into the roof of the building. These would heat glycol to modest temperatures, for domestic hot water. Dawn Solar uses a design which effectively puts radiant floor tubing just below the metal roof panels. They were not particularly forthcoming when I asked for more info. I suspect you could use Rehau Raupanel in a similar fashion. http://dawnsolar.com/gallery/TherDSS-StandingSeamClip.JPG ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org --- End of Original Message --- ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
