[RE-wrenches] Charging a Bolt with an SW

[Hilton Dier III]

The issue with EV chargers is that they create a lot of reactive power. 
Think of it as "slosh" in the waveform. That means that charging at 
2,000 watts sloshes a lot more than 2kW through the cable, plug, outlet, 
and from the inverter. If you've got a reasonably good sinewave inverter 
the charger will like it fine. However, the inverter might not like the 
charger if you cut things too close. Make sure to have a lot of top end 
left in your inverter. Always use a transformer based inverter. The SW 
series has a big chunk of metal in it, so that's good. At 120V the Bolt 
will only draw 1440 watts max.


An aftermarket Bolt 240V charger can draw up to 32 amps. That's 7.7 kW, 
so too big for an SW. Treat it more like 40 amps. The OEM 120/240 EVSE 
(smart charging cord) that comes with the car can draw 8 or 12 amps at 
120V or 12 at 240V. Assume that the 8 amps is really 12 and the 12 is 
really 15 or a bit more. I have seen 15 amp plugs and outlets with the 
hot prong melting plastic around it. The plug on the OEM EVSE is 20A 
rated but make sure your outlet is as well.


--
Hilton Dier III
Missisquoi River Hydro
Renewable Energy Design

___
List sponsored by Redwood Alliance

List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org

Change listserver email address & settings:
http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org

List-Archive: 
http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html

List rules & etiquette:
www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm

Check out or update participant bios:
www.members.re-wrenches.org

Re: [RE-wrenches] Charging a Bolt with an SW

[Darryl Thayer]

I think you said it well, about 5 years ago I tried to charge a car from an
off-grid system.  I did not record my events but the inverter had twice the
power of the level two charger, yet the inverter would get hot and trip
out.  I was told a ferroresonant transformer may help, and it might be
different with different cars.  However, I was warned the ferroresonant was
to stop input wave problems from arriving at the output not to prevent the
output wave problems showing up on the input.   The off-grid customer gave
up.

On Sun, Jun 7, 2020 at 6:36 AM Hilton Dier III  wrote:

> The issue with EV chargers is that they create a lot of reactive power.
> Think of it as "slosh" in the waveform. That means that charging at 2,000
> watts sloshes a lot more than 2kW through the cable, plug, outlet, and from
> the inverter. If you've got a reasonably good sinewave inverter the charger
> will like it fine. However, the inverter might not like the charger if you
> cut things too close. Make sure to have a lot of top end left in your
> inverter. Always use a transformer based inverter. The SW series has a big
> chunk of metal in it, so that's good. At 120V the Bolt will only draw 1440
> watts max.
>
> An aftermarket Bolt 240V charger can draw up to 32 amps. That's 7.7 kW, so
> too big for an SW. Treat it more like 40 amps. The OEM 120/240 EVSE (smart
> charging cord) that comes with the car can draw 8 or 12 amps at 120V or 12
> at 240V. Assume that the 8 amps is really 12 and the 12 is really 15 or a
> bit more. I have seen 15 amp plugs and outlets with the hot prong melting
> plastic around it. The plug on the OEM EVSE is 20A rated but make sure your
> outlet is as well.
>
> --
> Hilton Dier III
> Missisquoi River Hydro
> Renewable Energy Design
>
> ___
> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance
>
> List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org
>
> Change listserver email address & settings:
> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
>
> List-Archive:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html
>
> List rules & etiquette:
> www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm
>
> Check out or update participant bios:
> www.members.re-wrenches.org
>
>
___
List sponsored by Redwood Alliance

List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org

Change listserver email address & settings:
http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org

List-Archive: 
http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html

List rules & etiquette:
www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm

Check out or update participant bios:
www.members.re-wrenches.org

Re: [RE-wrenches] Charging a Bolt with an SW

[Jay]

I’ve got offgrid  2 clients and they have no issues. 

They each have a Bolt and can choose the charging rate. They can run it at 
either power. But only use higher power when they have lots of sun. 
Older Stacked vfx and Schneider xw, no issues. 

I would expect the SW to work, however it’s an odd beast as it’s waveform steps 
change with load. More load, more steps, therefor cleaner so maybe at lower 
charge rate it’s not clean enough. 

As to your issue it could be power factor Being really poor. 
Can you tell us what inverter, yea 5 years ago is a long time. 



Jay

Peltz power. 





> On Jun 7, 2020, at 11:53 AM, Darryl Thayer  wrote:
> 
> 
> I think you said it well, about 5 years ago I tried to charge a car from an 
> off-grid system.  I did not record my events but the inverter had twice the 
> power of the level two charger, yet the inverter would get hot and trip out.  
> I was told a ferroresonant transformer may help, and it might be different 
> with different cars.  However, I was warned the ferroresonant was to stop 
> input wave problems from arriving at the output not to prevent the output 
> wave problems showing up on the input.   The off-grid customer gave up.
> 
>> On Sun, Jun 7, 2020 at 6:36 AM Hilton Dier III  wrote:
>> The issue with EV chargers is that they create a lot of reactive power. 
>> Think of it as "slosh" in the waveform. That means that charging at 2,000 
>> watts sloshes a lot more than 2kW through the cable, plug, outlet, and from 
>> the inverter. If you've got a reasonably good sinewave inverter the charger 
>> will like it fine. However, the inverter might not like the charger if you 
>> cut things too close. Make sure to have a lot of top end left in your 
>> inverter. Always use a transformer based inverter. The SW series has a big 
>> chunk of metal in it, so that's good. At 120V the Bolt will only draw 1440 
>> watts max.
>> 
>> An aftermarket Bolt 240V charger can draw up to 32 amps. That's 7.7 kW, so 
>> too big for an SW. Treat it more like 40 amps. The OEM 120/240 EVSE (smart 
>> charging cord) that comes with the car can draw 8 or 12 amps at 120V or 12 
>> at 240V. Assume that the 8 amps is really 12 and the 12 is really 15 or a 
>> bit more. I have seen 15 amp plugs and outlets with the hot prong melting 
>> plastic around it. The plug on the OEM EVSE is 20A rated but make sure your 
>> outlet is as well.
>> 
>> -- 
>> Hilton Dier III
>> Missisquoi River Hydro
>> Renewable Energy Design
>> ___
>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance
>> 
>> List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org
>> 
>> Change listserver email address & settings:
>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
>> 
>> List-Archive: 
>> http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html
>> 
>> List rules & etiquette:
>> www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm
>> 
>> Check out or update participant bios:
>> www.members.re-wrenches.org
>> 
> ___
> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance
> 
> List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org
> 
> Change listserver email address & settings:
> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
> 
> List-Archive: 
> http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html
> 
> List rules & etiquette:
> www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm
> 
> Check out or update participant bios:
> www.members.re-wrenches.org
> 
___
List sponsored by Redwood Alliance

List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org

Change listserver email address & settings:
http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org

List-Archive: 
http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html

List rules & etiquette:
www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm

Check out or update participant bios:
www.members.re-wrenches.org

Re: [RE-wrenches] Charging a Bolt with an SW

[Darryl Thayer]

I was trying to charge a Nissan Leaf with a ? Iam not sure but two VFX i
think old age.. i mostly rember having the problem.  I think the car
harger had a max of 2kw

On Sun, Jun 7, 2020, 3:41 PM Jay  wrote:

> I’ve got offgrid  2 clients and they have no issues.
>
> They each have a Bolt and can choose the charging rate. They can run it at
> either power. But only use higher power when they have lots of sun.
> Older Stacked vfx and Schneider xw, no issues.
>
> I would expect the SW to work, however it’s an odd beast as it’s waveform
> steps change with load. More load, more steps, therefor cleaner so maybe at
> lower charge rate it’s not clean enough.
>
> As to your issue it could be power factor Being really poor.
> Can you tell us what inverter, yea 5 years ago is a long time.
>
>
>
> Jay
>
> Peltz power.
>
>
>
>
>
> On Jun 7, 2020, at 11:53 AM, Darryl Thayer  wrote:
>
> 
> I think you said it well, about 5 years ago I tried to charge a car from
> an off-grid system.  I did not record my events but the inverter had twice
> the power of the level two charger, yet the inverter would get hot and trip
> out.  I was told a ferroresonant transformer may help, and it might be
> different with different cars.  However, I was warned the ferroresonant was
> to stop input wave problems from arriving at the output not to prevent the
> output wave problems showing up on the input.   The off-grid customer gave
> up.
>
> On Sun, Jun 7, 2020 at 6:36 AM Hilton Dier III 
> wrote:
>
>> The issue with EV chargers is that they create a lot of reactive power.
>> Think of it as "slosh" in the waveform. That means that charging at 2,000
>> watts sloshes a lot more than 2kW through the cable, plug, outlet, and from
>> the inverter. If you've got a reasonably good sinewave inverter the charger
>> will like it fine. However, the inverter might not like the charger if you
>> cut things too close. Make sure to have a lot of top end left in your
>> inverter. Always use a transformer based inverter. The SW series has a big
>> chunk of metal in it, so that's good. At 120V the Bolt will only draw 1440
>> watts max.
>>
>> An aftermarket Bolt 240V charger can draw up to 32 amps. That's 7.7 kW,
>> so too big for an SW. Treat it more like 40 amps. The OEM 120/240 EVSE
>> (smart charging cord) that comes with the car can draw 8 or 12 amps at 120V
>> or 12 at 240V. Assume that the 8 amps is really 12 and the 12 is really 15
>> or a bit more. I have seen 15 amp plugs and outlets with the hot prong
>> melting plastic around it. The plug on the OEM EVSE is 20A rated but make
>> sure your outlet is as well.
>>
>> --
>> Hilton Dier III
>> Missisquoi River Hydro
>> Renewable Energy Design
>>
>> ___
>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance
>>
>> List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org
>>
>> Change listserver email address & settings:
>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
>>
>> List-Archive:
>> http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html
>>
>> List rules & etiquette:
>> www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm
>>
>> Check out or update participant bios:
>> www.members.re-wrenches.org
>>
>> ___
> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance
>
> List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org
>
> Change listserver email address & settings:
> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
>
> List-Archive:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html
>
> List rules & etiquette:
> www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm
>
> Check out or update participant bios:
> www.members.re-wrenches.org
>
> ___
> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance
>
> List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org
>
> Change listserver email address & settings:
> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
>
> List-Archive:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html
>
> List rules & etiquette:
> www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm
>
> Check out or update participant bios:
> www.members.re-wrenches.org
>
>
___
List sponsored by Redwood Alliance

List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org

Change listserver email address & settings:
http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org

List-Archive: 
http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html

List rules & etiquette:
www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm

Check out or update participant bios:
www.members.re-wrenches.org

Re: [RE-wrenches] Charging a Bolt with an SW

[Chris Mason]

I had a Nissan Leaf and a 240v charger, we had no problem using our Radian
to charge it during the day.

On Sat, Jun 6, 2020, 22:11 Hilton Dier III  wrote:

> The issue with EV chargers is that they create a lot of reactive power.
> Think of it as "slosh" in the waveform. That means that charging at 2,000
> watts sloshes a lot more than 2kW through the cable, plug, outlet, and from
> the inverter. If you've got a reasonably good sinewave inverter the charger
> will like it fine. However, the inverter might not like the charger if you
> cut things too close. Make sure to have a lot of top end left in your
> inverter. Always use a transformer based inverter. The SW series has a big
> chunk of metal in it, so that's good. At 120V the Bolt will only draw 1440
> watts max.
>
> An aftermarket Bolt 240V charger can draw up to 32 amps. That's 7.7 kW, so
> too big for an SW. Treat it more like 40 amps. The OEM 120/240 EVSE (smart
> charging cord) that comes with the car can draw 8 or 12 amps at 120V or 12
> at 240V. Assume that the 8 amps is really 12 and the 12 is really 15 or a
> bit more. I have seen 15 amp plugs and outlets with the hot prong melting
> plastic around it. The plug on the OEM EVSE is 20A rated but make sure your
> outlet is as well.
>
> --
> Hilton Dier III
> Missisquoi River Hydro
> Renewable Energy Design
>
> ___
> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance
>
> List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org
>
> Change listserver email address & settings:
> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
>
> List-Archive:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html
>
> List rules & etiquette:
> www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm
>
> Check out or update participant bios:
> www.members.re-wrenches.org
>
>
___
List sponsored by Redwood Alliance

List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org

Change listserver email address & settings:
http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org

List-Archive: 
http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html

List rules & etiquette:
www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm

Check out or update participant bios:
www.members.re-wrenches.org

Re: [RE-wrenches] Charging a Bolt with an SW

[David Katz]

The old SW waveform changes with battery voltage.  On the 24 volt version
there are less steps when the battery is over 28 volts. My washing machine
motor does not run when the battery is over 28.  I just have to turn on the
microwave when I want to do laundry on a sunny day.
David

On Sun, Jun 7, 2020 at 1:05 PM Jay  wrote:

> I’ve got offgrid  2 clients and they have no issues.
>
> They each have a Bolt and can choose the charging rate. They can run it at
> either power. But only use higher power when they have lots of sun.
> Older Stacked vfx and Schneider xw, no issues.
>
> I would expect the SW to work, however it’s an odd beast as it’s waveform
> steps change with load. More load, more steps, therefor cleaner so maybe at
> lower charge rate it’s not clean enough.
>
> As to your issue it could be power factor Being really poor.
> Can you tell us what inverter, yea 5 years ago is a long time.
>
>
>
> Jay
>
> Peltz power.
>
>
>
>
>
> On Jun 7, 2020, at 11:53 AM, Darryl Thayer  wrote:
>
> 
> I think you said it well, about 5 years ago I tried to charge a car from
> an off-grid system.  I did not record my events but the inverter had twice
> the power of the level two charger, yet the inverter would get hot and trip
> out.  I was told a ferroresonant transformer may help, and it might be
> different with different cars.  However, I was warned the ferroresonant was
> to stop input wave problems from arriving at the output not to prevent the
> output wave problems showing up on the input.   The off-grid customer gave
> up.
>
> On Sun, Jun 7, 2020 at 6:36 AM Hilton Dier III 
> wrote:
>
>> The issue with EV chargers is that they create a lot of reactive power.
>> Think of it as "slosh" in the waveform. That means that charging at 2,000
>> watts sloshes a lot more than 2kW through the cable, plug, outlet, and from
>> the inverter. If you've got a reasonably good sinewave inverter the charger
>> will like it fine. However, the inverter might not like the charger if you
>> cut things too close. Make sure to have a lot of top end left in your
>> inverter. Always use a transformer based inverter. The SW series has a big
>> chunk of metal in it, so that's good. At 120V the Bolt will only draw 1440
>> watts max.
>>
>> An aftermarket Bolt 240V charger can draw up to 32 amps. That's 7.7 kW,
>> so too big for an SW. Treat it more like 40 amps. The OEM 120/240 EVSE
>> (smart charging cord) that comes with the car can draw 8 or 12 amps at 120V
>> or 12 at 240V. Assume that the 8 amps is really 12 and the 12 is really 15
>> or a bit more. I have seen 15 amp plugs and outlets with the hot prong
>> melting plastic around it. The plug on the OEM EVSE is 20A rated but make
>> sure your outlet is as well.
>>
>> --
>> Hilton Dier III
>> Missisquoi River Hydro
>> Renewable Energy Design
>>
>> ___
>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance
>>
>> List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org
>>
>> Change listserver email address & settings:
>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
>>
>> List-Archive:
>> http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html
>>
>> List rules & etiquette:
>> www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm
>>
>> Check out or update participant bios:
>> www.members.re-wrenches.org
>>
>> ___
> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance
>
> List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org
>
> Change listserver email address & settings:
> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
>
> List-Archive:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html
>
> List rules & etiquette:
> www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm
>
> Check out or update participant bios:
> www.members.re-wrenches.org
>
> ___
> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance
>
> List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org
>
> Change listserver email address & settings:
> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
>
> List-Archive:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html
>
> List rules & etiquette:
> www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm
>
> Check out or update participant bios:
> www.members.re-wrenches.org
>
> --
David Katz Sent from Gmail Mobile
___
List sponsored by Redwood Alliance

List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org

Change listserver email address & settings:
http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org

List-Archive: 
http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html

List rules & etiquette:
www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm

Check out or update participant bios:
www.members.re-wrenches.org

Re: [RE-wrenches] Charging a Bolt with an SW

[Ray]

Also have a customer with a Leaf that can charge from a dual GVFX 
system.  He uses the 120 vac charger.  Lower charge rates are more 
efficient both for the car's battery and the solar/ battery system, so I 
recommend sticking to the 120 vac chargers if possible.


Ray Walters
Remote Solar
303 505-8760

On 6/7/20 6:04 PM, Darryl Thayer wrote:
I was trying to charge a Nissan Leaf with a ? Iam not sure but two VFX 
i think old age.. i mostly rember having the problem.  I think the 
car  harger had a max of 2kw


On Sun, Jun 7, 2020, 3:41 PM Jay > wrote:


I’ve got offgrid  2 clients and they have no issues.

They each have a Bolt and can choose the charging rate. They can
run it at either power. But only use higher power when they have
lots of sun.
Older Stacked vfx and Schneider xw, no issues.

I would expect the SW to work, however it’s an odd beast as it’s
waveform steps change with load. More load, more steps, therefor
cleaner so maybe at lower charge rate it’s not clean enough.

As to your issue it could be power factor Being really poor.
Can you tell us what inverter, yea 5 years ago is a long time.



Jay

Peltz power.






On Jun 7, 2020, at 11:53 AM, Darryl Thayer mailto:darylsol...@gmail.com>> wrote:


I think you said it well, about 5 years ago I tried to charge a
car from an off-grid system.  I did not record my events but the
inverter had twice the power of the level two charger, yet the
inverter would get hot and trip out.  I was told a ferroresonant
transformer may help, and it might be different with different
cars.  However, I was warned the ferroresonant was to stop input
wave problems from arriving at the output not to prevent the
output wave problems showing up on the input.   The off-grid
customer gave up.

On Sun, Jun 7, 2020 at 6:36 AM Hilton Dier III
mailto:hiltond...@gmail.com>> wrote:

The issue with EV chargers is that they create a lot of
reactive power. Think of it as "slosh" in the waveform. That
means that charging at 2,000 watts sloshes a lot more than
2kW through the cable, plug, outlet, and from the inverter.
If you've got a reasonably good sinewave inverter the charger
will like it fine. However, the inverter might not like the
charger if you cut things too close. Make sure to have a lot
of top end left in your inverter. Always use a transformer
based inverter. The SW series has a big chunk of metal in it,
so that's good. At 120V the Bolt will only draw 1440 watts max.

An aftermarket Bolt 240V charger can draw up to 32 amps.
That's 7.7 kW, so too big for an SW. Treat it more like 40
amps. The OEM 120/240 EVSE (smart charging cord) that comes
with the car can draw 8 or 12 amps at 120V or 12 at 240V.
Assume that the 8 amps is really 12 and the 12 is really 15
or a bit more. I have seen 15 amp plugs and outlets with the
hot prong melting plastic around it. The plug on the OEM EVSE
is 20A rated but make sure your outlet is as well.

-- 
Hilton Dier III

Missisquoi River Hydro
Renewable Energy Design

___
List sponsored by Redwood Alliance

List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org


Change listserver email address & settings:
http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org

List-Archive:

http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html

List rules & etiquette:
www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm


Check out or update participant bios:
www.members.re-wrenches.org 

___
List sponsored by Redwood Alliance

List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org


Change listserver email address & settings:
http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org

List-Archive:
http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html

List rules & etiquette:
www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm


Check out or update participant bios:
www.members.re-wrenches.org 


___
List sponsored by Redwood Alliance

List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org


Change listserver email address & settings:
http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org

List-Archive:
http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@

Re: [RE-wrenches] Charging a Bolt with an SW

[Chris Mason]

>Lower charge rates are more efficient both for the car's battery and the
solar/ battery system
I don't get that. Our house battery is full at about 11 a.m., so we have
about four hours to charge the car. During that time we make about 6KW, so
the car uses 5KW of that and charges up. If I went to the 120V charger, I
would be charging all day and it still would not be charged.

On Mon, Jun 8, 2020 at 1:05 PM Ray  wrote:

> Also have a customer with a Leaf that can charge from a dual GVFX system.
> He uses the 120 vac charger.  Lower charge rates are more efficient both
> for the car's battery and the solar/ battery system, so I recommend
> sticking to the 120 vac chargers if possible.
>
> Ray Walters
> Remote Solar
> 303 505-8760
>
> On 6/7/20 6:04 PM, Darryl Thayer wrote:
>
> I was trying to charge a Nissan Leaf with a ? Iam not sure but two VFX i
> think old age.. i mostly rember having the problem.  I think the car
> harger had a max of 2kw
>
> On Sun, Jun 7, 2020, 3:41 PM Jay  wrote:
>
>> I’ve got offgrid  2 clients and they have no issues.
>>
>> They each have a Bolt and can choose the charging rate. They can run it
>> at either power. But only use higher power when they have lots of sun.
>> Older Stacked vfx and Schneider xw, no issues.
>>
>> I would expect the SW to work, however it’s an odd beast as it’s waveform
>> steps change with load. More load, more steps, therefor cleaner so maybe at
>> lower charge rate it’s not clean enough.
>>
>> As to your issue it could be power factor Being really poor.
>> Can you tell us what inverter, yea 5 years ago is a long time.
>>
>>
>>
>> Jay
>>
>> Peltz power.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Jun 7, 2020, at 11:53 AM, Darryl Thayer  wrote:
>>
>> 
>> I think you said it well, about 5 years ago I tried to charge a car from
>> an off-grid system.  I did not record my events but the inverter had twice
>> the power of the level two charger, yet the inverter would get hot and trip
>> out.  I was told a ferroresonant transformer may help, and it might be
>> different with different cars.  However, I was warned the ferroresonant was
>> to stop input wave problems from arriving at the output not to prevent the
>> output wave problems showing up on the input.   The off-grid customer gave
>> up.
>>
>> On Sun, Jun 7, 2020 at 6:36 AM Hilton Dier III 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> The issue with EV chargers is that they create a lot of reactive power.
>>> Think of it as "slosh" in the waveform. That means that charging at 2,000
>>> watts sloshes a lot more than 2kW through the cable, plug, outlet, and from
>>> the inverter. If you've got a reasonably good sinewave inverter the charger
>>> will like it fine. However, the inverter might not like the charger if you
>>> cut things too close. Make sure to have a lot of top end left in your
>>> inverter. Always use a transformer based inverter. The SW series has a big
>>> chunk of metal in it, so that's good. At 120V the Bolt will only draw 1440
>>> watts max.
>>>
>>> An aftermarket Bolt 240V charger can draw up to 32 amps. That's 7.7 kW,
>>> so too big for an SW. Treat it more like 40 amps. The OEM 120/240 EVSE
>>> (smart charging cord) that comes with the car can draw 8 or 12 amps at 120V
>>> or 12 at 240V. Assume that the 8 amps is really 12 and the 12 is really 15
>>> or a bit more. I have seen 15 amp plugs and outlets with the hot prong
>>> melting plastic around it. The plug on the OEM EVSE is 20A rated but make
>>> sure your outlet is as well.
>>>
>>> --
>>> Hilton Dier III
>>> Missisquoi River Hydro
>>> Renewable Energy Design
>>>
>>> ___
>>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance
>>>
>>> List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org
>>>
>>> Change listserver email address & settings:
>>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
>>>
>>> List-Archive:
>>> http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html
>>>
>>> List rules & etiquette:
>>> www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm
>>>
>>> Check out or update participant bios:
>>> www.members.re-wrenches.org
>>>
>>> ___
>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance
>>
>> List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org
>>
>> Change listserver email address & settings:
>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
>>
>> List-Archive:
>> http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html
>>
>> List rules & etiquette:
>> www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm
>>
>> Check out or update participant bios:
>> www.members.re-wrenches.org
>>
>> ___
>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance
>>
>> List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org
>>
>> Change listserver email address & settings:
>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
>>
>> List-Archive:
>> http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html
>>
>> List rules & etiquette:
>> www.re-wre

Re: [RE-wrenches] Charging a Bolt with an SW

[Jason Szumlanski]

I think what he means is that the battery lifespan will improve with slower
charging.

On that note, I have not seen much concrete information on how high charge
rates affect all of these newer lithium batteries. They all claim outwardly
that their battery can be charged fast, because let's face it... that's
what consumers want. But behind the scenes they really want you to charge
it slower (and not necessarily to 100%). How fast is too fast is the
question I always have.



On Mon, Jun 8, 2020 at 3:54 PM Chris Mason 
wrote:

> >Lower charge rates are more efficient both for the car's battery and the
> solar/ battery system
> I don't get that. Our house battery is full at about 11 a.m., so we have
> about four hours to charge the car. During that time we make about 6KW, so
> the car uses 5KW of that and charges up. If I went to the 120V charger, I
> would be charging all day and it still would not be charged.
>
> On Mon, Jun 8, 2020 at 1:05 PM Ray  wrote:
>
>> Also have a customer with a Leaf that can charge from a dual GVFX
>> system.  He uses the 120 vac charger.  Lower charge rates are more
>> efficient both for the car's battery and the solar/ battery system, so I
>> recommend sticking to the 120 vac chargers if possible.
>>
>> Ray Walters
>> Remote Solar
>> 303 505-8760
>>
>> On 6/7/20 6:04 PM, Darryl Thayer wrote:
>>
>> I was trying to charge a Nissan Leaf with a ? Iam not sure but two VFX i
>> think old age.. i mostly rember having the problem.  I think the car
>> harger had a max of 2kw
>>
>> On Sun, Jun 7, 2020, 3:41 PM Jay  wrote:
>>
>>> I’ve got offgrid  2 clients and they have no issues.
>>>
>>> They each have a Bolt and can choose the charging rate. They can run it
>>> at either power. But only use higher power when they have lots of sun.
>>> Older Stacked vfx and Schneider xw, no issues.
>>>
>>> I would expect the SW to work, however it’s an odd beast as it’s
>>> waveform steps change with load. More load, more steps, therefor cleaner so
>>> maybe at lower charge rate it’s not clean enough.
>>>
>>> As to your issue it could be power factor Being really poor.
>>> Can you tell us what inverter, yea 5 years ago is a long time.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Jay
>>>
>>> Peltz power.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Jun 7, 2020, at 11:53 AM, Darryl Thayer 
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> 
>>> I think you said it well, about 5 years ago I tried to charge a car from
>>> an off-grid system.  I did not record my events but the inverter had twice
>>> the power of the level two charger, yet the inverter would get hot and trip
>>> out.  I was told a ferroresonant transformer may help, and it might be
>>> different with different cars.  However, I was warned the ferroresonant was
>>> to stop input wave problems from arriving at the output not to prevent the
>>> output wave problems showing up on the input.   The off-grid customer gave
>>> up.
>>>
>>> On Sun, Jun 7, 2020 at 6:36 AM Hilton Dier III 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 The issue with EV chargers is that they create a lot of reactive power.
 Think of it as "slosh" in the waveform. That means that charging at 2,000
 watts sloshes a lot more than 2kW through the cable, plug, outlet, and from
 the inverter. If you've got a reasonably good sinewave inverter the charger
 will like it fine. However, the inverter might not like the charger if you
 cut things too close. Make sure to have a lot of top end left in your
 inverter. Always use a transformer based inverter. The SW series has a big
 chunk of metal in it, so that's good. At 120V the Bolt will only draw 1440
 watts max.

 An aftermarket Bolt 240V charger can draw up to 32 amps. That's 7.7 kW,
 so too big for an SW. Treat it more like 40 amps. The OEM 120/240 EVSE
 (smart charging cord) that comes with the car can draw 8 or 12 amps at 120V
 or 12 at 240V. Assume that the 8 amps is really 12 and the 12 is really 15
 or a bit more. I have seen 15 amp plugs and outlets with the hot prong
 melting plastic around it. The plug on the OEM EVSE is 20A rated but make
 sure your outlet is as well.

 --
 Hilton Dier III
 Missisquoi River Hydro
 Renewable Energy Design

 ___
 List sponsored by Redwood Alliance

 List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org

 Change listserver email address & settings:
 http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
 

 List-Archive:
 http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html
 

Re: [RE-wrenches] Charging a Bolt with an SW

[Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar]

The good LFP batteries all tell you max charge/discharge rate and that
in their specifications. Cascading of batteries usually widens these rates.


Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar
"we go where powerlines
don't"
http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/ [1]
e-mail offgridso...@sti.net
[2]
text 209 813 0060

On Mon, 8 Jun 2020 16:37:12 -0400, Jason Szumlanski 
wrote:  I think what he means is that the battery lifespan will improve
with slower charging.   On that note, I have not seen much concrete
information on how high charge rates affect all of these newer lithium
batteries. They all claim outwardly that their battery can be charged fast,
because let's face it... that's what consumers want. But behind the scenes
they really want you to charge it slower (and not necessarily to 100%). How
fast is too fast is the question I always have.  
  On
Mon, Jun 8, 2020 at 3:54 PM Chris Mason  wrote:  >Lower charge rates are
more efficient both for the car's battery and the solar/ battery system I
don't get that. Our house battery is full at about 11 a.m., so we have
about four hours to charge the car. During that time we make about 6KW, so
the car uses 5KW of that and charges up. If I went to the 120V charger, I
would be charging all day and it still would not be charged.  
  On Mon,
Jun 8, 2020 at 1:05 PM Ray  wrote:   

Also have a customer with a Leaf
that can charge from a dual GVFX system. He uses the 120 vac charger. Lower
charge rates are more efficient both for the car's battery and the solar/
battery system, so I recommend sticking to the 120 vac chargers if
possible. 
Ray Walters
Remote Solar
303 505-8760
 On 6/7/20 6:04 PM, Darryl
Thayer wrote:  I was trying to charge a Nissan Leaf with a ? Iam not sure
but two VFX i think old age.. i mostly rember having the problem. I think
the car harger had a max of 2kw 
  On Sun, Jun 7, 2020, 3:41 PM Jay  wrote:
 I've got offgrid 2 clients and they have no issues.They each have a
Bolt and can choose the charging rate. They can run it at either power. But
only use higher power when they have lots of sun.  Older Stacked vfx and
Schneider xw, no issues.I would expect the SW to work, however it's an
odd beast as it's waveform steps change with load. More load, more steps,
therefor cleaner so maybe at lower charge rate it's not clean enough.As
to your issue it could be power factor Being really poor.  Can you tell us
what inverter, yea 5 years ago is a long time.Jay   Peltz power.   
 
 On Jun 7, 2020, at 11:53 AM, Darryl Thayer  wrote:
  I think
you said it well, about 5 years ago I tried to charge a car from an
off-grid system. I did not record my events but the inverter had twice the
power of the level two charger, yet the inverter would get hot and trip
out. I was told a ferroresonant transformer may help, and it might be
different with different cars. However, I was warned the ferroresonant was
to stop input wave problems from arriving at the output not to prevent the
output wave problems showing up on the input. The off-grid customer gave
up.  
  On Sun, Jun 7, 2020 at 6:36 AM Hilton Dier III  wrote:   

The
issue with EV chargers is that they create a lot of reactive power. Think
of it as "slosh" in the waveform. That means that charging at 2,000 watts
sloshes a lot more than 2kW through the cable, plug, outlet, and from the
inverter. If you've got a reasonably good sinewave inverter the charger
will like it fine. However, the inverter might not like the charger if you
cut things too close. Make sure to have a lot of top end left in your
inverter. Always use a transformer based inverter. The SW series has a big
chunk of metal in it, so that's good. At 120V the Bolt will only draw 1440
watts max.

An aftermarket Bolt 240V charger can draw up to 32 amps. That's
7.7 kW, so too big for an SW. Treat it more like 40 amps. The OEM 120/240
EVSE (smart charging cord) that comes with the car can draw 8 or 12 amps at
120V or 12 at 240V. Assume that the 8 amps is really 12 and the 12 is
really 15 or a bit more. I have seen 15 amp plugs and outlets with the hot
prong melting plastic around it. The plug on the OEM EVSE is 20A rated but
make sure your outlet is as well. 
-- 
Hilton Dier III
Missisquoi River
Hydro
Renewable Energy Design

 
___
 List sponsored by Redwood
Alliance

 List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org [8]

 Change
listserver email address & settings:

http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org [9]


List-Archive:
http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html
[10]

 List rules & etiquette:
 www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm [11]


Check out or update participant bios:
 www.members.re-wrenches.org [12]
  
___
 List sponsored by Redwood
Alliance

 List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org [13]

 Change
listserver email address & settings:

http://lists.re-wrenches.

Re: [RE-wrenches] Charging a Bolt with an SW

[Ray]

I meant the efficiency of the electrical transfer of energy to the EV 
battery, not necessarily total system efficiency.  In general, higher 
charge rates means more heat, more line losses, etc.  Just look at the 
efficiency specs vs charge rate for any battery; its basic physics.  The 
lead acid battery side of the system especially works better at lower 
rates, but in your case you have surplus PV, so the house batteries are 
no longer really part of the equation.    Again, electrical efficiency 
is not always the end all, beat all; taking advantage of excess PV in 
the summer is improving overall system efficiency by utilizing power 
that would other wise be wasted, even if the efficiency of the energy 
transfer itself from one battery to another is a bit lower.


On the other hand for a typical customer leaving the EV plugged in over 
night to go to work the next day, a lower charge rate will be better.


Ray Walters
Remote Solar
303 505-8760

On 6/8/20 3:54 PM, Chris Mason wrote:
>Lower charge rates are more efficient both for the car's battery and 
the solar/ battery system
I don't get that. Our house battery is full at about 11 a.m., so we 
have about four hours to charge the car. During that time we make 
about 6KW, so the car uses 5KW of that and charges up. If I went to 
the 120V charger, I would be charging all day and it still would not 
be charged.


On Mon, Jun 8, 2020 at 1:05 PM Ray > wrote:


Also have a customer with a Leaf that can charge from a dual GVFX
system.  He uses the 120 vac charger.  Lower charge rates are more
efficient both for the car's battery and the solar/ battery
system, so I recommend sticking to the 120 vac chargers if possible.

Ray Walters
Remote Solar
303 505-8760

On 6/7/20 6:04 PM, Darryl Thayer wrote:

I was trying to charge a Nissan Leaf with a ? Iam not sure but
two VFX i think old age.. i mostly rember having the problem.  I
think the car  harger had a max of 2kw

On Sun, Jun 7, 2020, 3:41 PM Jay mailto:jay.pe...@gmail.com>> wrote:

I’ve got offgrid  2 clients and they have no issues.

They each have a Bolt and can choose the charging rate. They
can run it at either power. But only use higher power when
they have lots of sun.
Older Stacked vfx and Schneider xw, no issues.

I would expect the SW to work, however it’s an odd beast as
it’s waveform steps change with load. More load, more steps,
therefor cleaner so maybe at lower charge rate it’s not clean
enough.

As to your issue it could be power factor Being really poor.
Can you tell us what inverter, yea 5 years ago is a long time.



Jay

Peltz power.






On Jun 7, 2020, at 11:53 AM, Darryl Thayer
mailto:darylsol...@gmail.com>> wrote:


I think you said it well, about 5 years ago I tried to
charge a car from an off-grid system.  I did not record my
events but the inverter had twice the power of the level two
charger, yet the inverter would get hot and trip out.  I was
told a ferroresonant transformer may help, and it might be
different with different cars.  However, I was warned the
ferroresonant was to stop input wave problems from arriving
at the output not to prevent the output wave problems
showing up on the input.   The off-grid customer gave up.

On Sun, Jun 7, 2020 at 6:36 AM Hilton Dier III
mailto:hiltond...@gmail.com>> wrote:

The issue with EV chargers is that they create a lot of
reactive power. Think of it as "slosh" in the waveform.
That means that charging at 2,000 watts sloshes a lot
more than 2kW through the cable, plug, outlet, and from
the inverter. If you've got a reasonably good sinewave
inverter the charger will like it fine. However, the
inverter might not like the charger if you cut things
too close. Make sure to have a lot of top end left in
your inverter. Always use a transformer based inverter.
The SW series has a big chunk of metal in it, so that's
good. At 120V the Bolt will only draw 1440 watts max.

An aftermarket Bolt 240V charger can draw up to 32 amps.
That's 7.7 kW, so too big for an SW. Treat it more like
40 amps. The OEM 120/240 EVSE (smart charging cord) that
comes with the car can draw 8 or 12 amps at 120V or 12
at 240V. Assume that the 8 amps is really 12 and the 12
is really 15 or a bit more. I have seen 15 amp plugs and
outlets with the hot prong melting plastic around it.
The plug on the OEM EVSE is 20A rated but make sure your
outlet is as well.

-- 
Hilton Dier III

Missisquoi River Hydro
Renewab