Re: [RE-wrenches] Cleaning PV mods

[Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches]

Mark, what you are describing is almost a daily occurrence in Florida in
the summer. It can start raining buckets in full sun. And the rainwater is
much colder than what comes out of a hose here.

There does not seem to be any real data out there - only conjecture and
anecdotes. I understand why manufacturers might put that into a manual out
of an abundance of caution, but I have never seen any real testing.

Jason Szumlanski
Principal Solar Designer | Florida Solar Design Group
NABCEP Certified Solar Professional (PVIP)
Florida State Certified Solar Contractor CVC56956


On Mon, Oct 23, 2023 at 1:22 PM Mark Downing via RE-wrenches <
re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:

> Indeed, spraying cold water on hot modules between the hours of 10A-2P (or
> maybe 9A and 3P) is simply foolish.
> Now the argument of rain being more dangerous than a cold hose is pretty
> weak.
> If it's raining, the modules are simply not going to be hot!
> It would only be an issue if conditions went from full sun to raining
> streetcars and busses within the time period of a couple of minutes.
> --
> *From:* RE-wrenches  on behalf
> of White, Will via RE-wrenches 
> *Sent:* Monday, October 23, 2023 9:44 AM
> *To:* RE-wrenches 
> *Cc:* White, Will 
> *Subject:* Re: [RE-wrenches] Cleaning PV mods
>
>
> I worked with a guy who had done installs in Arizona. He had an off-grid
> customer spray down their array with cold well water in the middle of the
> day, which shattered the module glass.
>
>
>
> I’m sure it was an isolated incident, but it happened.
>
>
>
> Thanks,
>
> Will
>
>
>
> *From:* RE-wrenches  *On
> Behalf Of *Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches
> *Sent:* Friday, October 20, 2023 4:47 PM
> *To:* RE-wrenches 
> *Cc:* Jason Szumlanski 
> *Subject:* [EXTERNAL] Re: [RE-wrenches] Cleaning PV mods
>
>
>
> *CAUTION:* This email originated from outside of the organization. Do not
> click links or open attachments unless you recognize the sender and know
> the content is safe.
>
>
>
> I don't understand the thermal shock nonsense. It routinely starts
> downpouring here when it's blazing hot out (sun showers) and the rain is
> way cooler than ground water in summer. It makes no sense. If hose water
> from the ground is going to hurt solar panels, you better not put them
> where it rains!
>
>
>
> I replied privately to Dana, but for the benefit of the group, it takes a
> heavy soiling to make any appreciable difference. I have done numerous
> tests at times of high pollen and found little to no benefit to cleaning
> solar panels. Certainly it would not be worth paying someone to do it.
> Other climates may have different results. My suggestion would be to test
> first. Module level power electronics can provide incontrovertible proof.
>
>
>
> Jason
>
>
>
>
>
> On Fri, Oct 20, 2023, 4:21 PM Dave Tedeyan via RE-wrenches <
> re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:
>
> Hi Dana,
>
>
>
> See attached from REC. I would imagine these guidelines would apply to all
> modules.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Dave
>
>
>
> On Fri, Oct 20, 2023 at 3:56 PM Dana Orzel via RE-wrenches <
> re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:
>
> Hey ally ‘all,
>
>
>
> Ok bad solar installer! 7 years & I have never cleaned my modules & live
> on a dirt road. Yeah rain does a good job with the dust but there is a film
> mostly on the edges.
>
>
>
> What does everyone do for cleaning?
>
>
>
> My array is 16’+ tall on a hill side. I have a pressure washer & was going
> to pick up a large sponge type mop & mount it on a painters extension pole.
>
>
>
> Good Biodegradable cleaning solutions?
>
>
>
>
>
> _
>
> Dana OrzelGREAT SOLAR WORKS!
>
> C – 208.721.7003  E – d...@solarwork.com
>
> W - www. greatsolarworks.com
> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__http:/greatsolarworks.com__;!!KPww_GFiJXw!Y_kuM7c-s1IyVKAFmwI_3s4QdWIAuH3dA6C9UrdDyGVPbrAubqjhW4VUC0zvVmJ3YqDCwomVHcoSXnJViwOe2rxR3PsYzpCS$>
> www.solarwork.com
> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__http:/www.solarwork.com/__;!!KPww_GFiJXw!Y_kuM7c-s1IyVKAFmwI_3s4QdWIAuH3dA6C9UrdDyGVPbrAubqjhW4VUC0zvVmJ3YqDCwomVHcoSXnJViwOe2rxR3PW0Drer$>
>
> *“Responsible Technologies for Responsible People since 1988!”*
>
>
>
> ___
> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance
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> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Cleaning PV mods

[Mark Downing via RE-wrenches]

Indeed, spraying cold water on hot modules between the hours of 10A-2P (or 
maybe 9A and 3P) is simply foolish.
Now the argument of rain being more dangerous than a cold hose is pretty weak.
If it's raining, the modules are simply not going to be hot!
It would only be an issue if conditions went from full sun to raining 
streetcars and busses within the time period of a couple of minutes.

From: RE-wrenches  on behalf of 
White, Will via RE-wrenches 
Sent: Monday, October 23, 2023 9:44 AM
To: RE-wrenches 
Cc: White, Will 
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Cleaning PV mods


I worked with a guy who had done installs in Arizona. He had an off-grid 
customer spray down their array with cold well water in the middle of the day, 
which shattered the module glass.



I’m sure it was an isolated incident, but it happened.



Thanks,

Will



From: RE-wrenches  On Behalf Of 
Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches
Sent: Friday, October 20, 2023 4:47 PM
To: RE-wrenches 
Cc: Jason Szumlanski 
Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: [RE-wrenches] Cleaning PV mods



CAUTION: This email originated from outside of the organization. Do not click 
links or open attachments unless you recognize the sender and know the content 
is safe.



I don't understand the thermal shock nonsense. It routinely starts downpouring 
here when it's blazing hot out (sun showers) and the rain is way cooler than 
ground water in summer. It makes no sense. If hose water from the ground is 
going to hurt solar panels, you better not put them where it rains!



I replied privately to Dana, but for the benefit of the group, it takes a heavy 
soiling to make any appreciable difference. I have done numerous tests at times 
of high pollen and found little to no benefit to cleaning solar panels. 
Certainly it would not be worth paying someone to do it. Other climates may 
have different results. My suggestion would be to test first. Module level 
power electronics can provide incontrovertible proof.



Jason





On Fri, Oct 20, 2023, 4:21 PM Dave Tedeyan via RE-wrenches 
mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org>> 
wrote:

Hi Dana,



See attached from REC. I would imagine these guidelines would apply to all 
modules.

Cheers,

Dave



On Fri, Oct 20, 2023 at 3:56 PM Dana Orzel via RE-wrenches 
mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org>> 
wrote:

Hey ally ‘all,



Ok bad solar installer! 7 years & I have never cleaned my modules & live on a 
dirt road. Yeah rain does a good job with the dust but there is a film mostly 
on the edges.



What does everyone do for cleaning?



My array is 16’+ tall on a hill side. I have a pressure washer & was going to 
pick up a large sponge type mop & mount it on a painters extension pole.



Good Biodegradable cleaning solutions?





_

Dana OrzelGREAT SOLAR WORKS!

C – 208.721.7003  E – d...@solarwork.com<mailto:d...@solarwork.com>

W - www. 
greatsolarworks.com<https://urldefense.com/v3/__http:/greatsolarworks.com__;!!KPww_GFiJXw!Y_kuM7c-s1IyVKAFmwI_3s4QdWIAuH3dA6C9UrdDyGVPbrAubqjhW4VUC0zvVmJ3YqDCwomVHcoSXnJViwOe2rxR3PsYzpCS$>
 
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Cleaning PV mods

[Bryan Norkunas via RE-wrenches]

When our area experienced a lot of ash from nearby forest fires, I ended up 
purchasing a telescopic brush that big rig truckers use to wash their trucks 
and had great success.  If I recall it was around $80 and it extended 20ft and 
came with a few different attachments.  

 

Bryan @ PV-Cables

 

From: RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf 
Of Kirk Herander via RE-wrenches
Sent: Monday, October 23, 2023 9:02 AM
To: RE-wrenches
Cc: Kirk Herander
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Cleaning PV mods

 

A customer of mine has both hot and cold water plumbed to his outdoor hose 
spigots, similar to an indoor sink, so he can clean anything outside with a 
warm to hot mix if necessary. Obviously better cleaning than cold alone.

 

On Mon, Oct 23, 2023 at 9:45 AM White, Will via RE-wrenches 
 wrote:

I worked with a guy who had done installs in Arizona. He had an off-grid 
customer spray down their array with cold well water in the middle of the day, 
which shattered the module glass. 

 

I’m sure it was an isolated incident, but it happened.

 

Thanks,

Will

 

From: RE-wrenches  On Behalf Of 
Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches
Sent: Friday, October 20, 2023 4:47 PM
To: RE-wrenches 
Cc: Jason Szumlanski 
Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: [RE-wrenches] Cleaning PV mods

 

CAUTION: This email originated from outside of the organization. Do not click 
links or open attachments unless you recognize the sender and know the content 
is safe.

 

I don't understand the thermal shock nonsense. It routinely starts downpouring 
here when it's blazing hot out (sun showers) and the rain is way cooler than 
ground water in summer. It makes no sense. If hose water from the ground is 
going to hurt solar panels, you better not put them where it rains!  

 

I replied privately to Dana, but for the benefit of the group, it takes a heavy 
soiling to make any appreciable difference. I have done numerous tests at times 
of high pollen and found little to no benefit to cleaning solar panels. 
Certainly it would not be worth paying someone to do it. Other climates may 
have different results. My suggestion would be to test first. Module level 
power electronics can provide incontrovertible proof.

 

Jason

 

 

On Fri, Oct 20, 2023, 4:21 PM Dave Tedeyan via RE-wrenches 
 wrote:

Hi Dana,  

 

See attached from REC. I would imagine these guidelines would apply to all 
modules.

Cheers,

Dave

 

On Fri, Oct 20, 2023 at 3:56 PM Dana Orzel via RE-wrenches 
 wrote:

Hey ally ‘all,

 

Ok bad solar installer! 7 years & I have never cleaned my modules & live on a 
dirt road. Yeah rain does a good job with the dust but there is a film mostly 
on the edges.

 

What does everyone do for cleaning?

 

My array is 16’+ tall on a hill side. I have a pressure washer & was going to 
pick up a large sponge type mop & mount it on a painters extension pole. 

 

Good Biodegradable cleaning solutions?

 

 

_

Dana OrzelGREAT SOLAR WORKS!  

C – 208.721.7003  E –  <mailto:d...@solarwork.com> d...@solarwork.com

W - www. greatsolarworks.com 
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Cleaning PV mods

[Kirk Herander via RE-wrenches]

A customer of mine has both hot and cold water plumbed to his outdoor hose
spigots, similar to an indoor sink, so he can clean anything outside with a
warm to hot mix if necessary. Obviously better cleaning than cold alone.

On Mon, Oct 23, 2023 at 9:45 AM White, Will via RE-wrenches <
re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:

> I worked with a guy who had done installs in Arizona. He had an off-grid
> customer spray down their array with cold well water in the middle of the
> day, which shattered the module glass.
>
>
>
> I’m sure it was an isolated incident, but it happened.
>
>
>
> Thanks,
>
> Will
>
>
>
> *From:* RE-wrenches  *On
> Behalf Of *Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches
> *Sent:* Friday, October 20, 2023 4:47 PM
> *To:* RE-wrenches 
> *Cc:* Jason Szumlanski 
> *Subject:* [EXTERNAL] Re: [RE-wrenches] Cleaning PV mods
>
>
>
> *CAUTION:* This email originated from outside of the organization. Do not
> click links or open attachments unless you recognize the sender and know
> the content is safe.
>
>
>
> I don't understand the thermal shock nonsense. It routinely starts
> downpouring here when it's blazing hot out (sun showers) and the rain is
> way cooler than ground water in summer. It makes no sense. If hose water
> from the ground is going to hurt solar panels, you better not put them
> where it rains!
>
>
>
> I replied privately to Dana, but for the benefit of the group, it takes a
> heavy soiling to make any appreciable difference. I have done numerous
> tests at times of high pollen and found little to no benefit to cleaning
> solar panels. Certainly it would not be worth paying someone to do it.
> Other climates may have different results. My suggestion would be to test
> first. Module level power electronics can provide incontrovertible proof.
>
>
>
> Jason
>
>
>
>
>
> On Fri, Oct 20, 2023, 4:21 PM Dave Tedeyan via RE-wrenches <
> re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:
>
> Hi Dana,
>
>
>
> See attached from REC. I would imagine these guidelines would apply to all
> modules.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Dave
>
>
>
> On Fri, Oct 20, 2023 at 3:56 PM Dana Orzel via RE-wrenches <
> re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:
>
> Hey ally ‘all,
>
>
>
> Ok bad solar installer! 7 years & I have never cleaned my modules & live
> on a dirt road. Yeah rain does a good job with the dust but there is a film
> mostly on the edges.
>
>
>
> What does everyone do for cleaning?
>
>
>
> My array is 16’+ tall on a hill side. I have a pressure washer & was going
> to pick up a large sponge type mop & mount it on a painters extension pole.
>
>
>
> Good Biodegradable cleaning solutions?
>
>
>
>
>
> _
>
> Dana OrzelGREAT SOLAR WORKS!
>
> C – 208.721.7003  E – d...@solarwork.com
>
> W - www. greatsolarworks.com
> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__http:/greatsolarworks.com__;!!KPww_GFiJXw!Y_kuM7c-s1IyVKAFmwI_3s4QdWIAuH3dA6C9UrdDyGVPbrAubqjhW4VUC0zvVmJ3YqDCwomVHcoSXnJViwOe2rxR3PsYzpCS$>
> www.solarwork.com
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>
> *“Responsible Technologies for Responsible People since 1988!”*
>
>
>
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>
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Cleaning PV mods

[Peter Giroux via RE-wrenches]

Dave

 

   So funny, thanks for the smile. Have had installers tell me it is ok to walk 
on panels and I thought they were asking for trouble.

 

  We recommend a soft brush ( home depot sells one that goes on an extendable 
pole ) dawn detergent and a hose. Here in the south the pollen wreaks havoc on 
panels, just bakes on and coats the glass. Just simple cleaning and production 
#’s jump right back up.

 

Peter Giroux

ASAE

 

From: RE-wrenches  On Behalf Of Dave 
Angelini Offgrid Solar via RE-wrenches
Sent: Monday, October 23, 2023 11:29 AM
To: RE-wrenches 
Cc: Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar 
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Cleaning PV mods

 

Definitely heard stories and have seen a few insurance claims for cracked 
glass. 
I have had clients send me pictures of "solar" guys walking on the panels on 
their roof.

I guess it is OK to do this if you change your business name every 5 years😉
Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar
"we go where powerlines don't"
   <http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/>  <https://offgridsolar1.com/> 
https://offgridsolar1.com/  <http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/> 
e-mail  offgridso...@sti.net <mailto:offgridso...@sti.net> 
text 209 813 0060

 

On 2023-10-23 6:44 am, White, Will via RE-wrenches wrote:

I worked with a guy who had done installs in Arizona. He had an off-grid 
customer spray down their array with cold well water in the middle of the day, 
which shattered the module glass.

 

I'm sure it was an isolated incident, but it happened.

 

Thanks,

Will

 

From: RE-wrenches  On Behalf Of 
Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches
Sent: Friday, October 20, 2023 4:47 PM
To: RE-wrenches 
Cc: Jason Szumlanski 
Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: [RE-wrenches] Cleaning PV mods

 

CAUTION: This email originated from outside of the organization. Do not click 
links or open attachments unless you recognize the sender and know the content 
is safe.

 

I don't understand the thermal shock nonsense. It routinely starts downpouring 
here when it's blazing hot out (sun showers) and the rain is way cooler than 
ground water in summer. It makes no sense. If hose water from the ground is 
going to hurt solar panels, you better not put them where it rains! 

 

I replied privately to Dana, but for the benefit of the group, it takes a heavy 
soiling to make any appreciable difference. I have done numerous tests at times 
of high pollen and found little to no benefit to cleaning solar panels. 
Certainly it would not be worth paying someone to do it. Other climates may 
have different results. My suggestion would be to test first. Module level 
power electronics can provide incontrovertible proof.

 

Jason

 

 

On Fri, Oct 20, 2023, 4:21 PM Dave Tedeyan via RE-wrenches 
mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> > 
wrote:

Hi Dana, 

 

See attached from REC. I would imagine these guidelines would apply to all 
modules.

Cheers,

Dave

 

On Fri, Oct 20, 2023 at 3:56 PM Dana Orzel via RE-wrenches 
mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> > 
wrote:

Hey ally 'all,

 

Ok bad solar installer! 7 years & I have never cleaned my modules & live on a 
dirt road. Yeah rain does a good job with the dust but there is a film mostly 
on the edges.

 

What does everyone do for cleaning?

 

My array is 16'+ tall on a hill side. I have a pressure washer & was going to 
pick up a large sponge type mop & mount it on a painters extension pole. 

 

Good Biodegradable cleaning solutions?

 

 

_

Dana OrzelGREAT SOLAR WORKS!  

C – 208.721.7003  E –  <mailto:d...@solarwork.com> d...@solarwork.com

W - www. greatsolarworks.com 
<https://urldefense.com/v3/__http:/greatsolarworks.com__;!!KPww_GFiJXw!Y_kuM7c-s1IyVKAFmwI_3s4QdWIAuH3dA6C9UrdDyGVPbrAubqjhW4VUC0zvVmJ3YqDCwomVHcoSXnJViwOe2rxR3PsYzpCS$>
   
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"Responsible Technologies for Responsible People since 1988!"

 

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Re: [RE-wrenches] Cleaning PV mods

[Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar via RE-wrenches]

Definitely heard stories and have seen a few insurance claims for 
cracked glass.
I have had clients send me pictures of "solar" guys walking on the 
panels on their roof.


I guess it is OK to do this if you change your business name every 5 
years😉


Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar
"we go where powerlines don't"
   [11]https://offgridsolar1.com/ [12]  [11]
e-mail  offgridso...@sti.net
text 209 813 0060

On 2023-10-23 6:44 am, White, Will via RE-wrenches wrote:

I worked with a guy who had done installs in Arizona. He had an 
off-grid customer spray down their array with cold well water in the 
middle of the day, which shattered the module glass.


I'm sure it was an isolated incident, but it happened.

Thanks,

Will

From: RE-wrenches  On Behalf 
Of Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches

Sent: Friday, October 20, 2023 4:47 PM
To: RE-wrenches 
Cc: Jason Szumlanski 
Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: [RE-wrenches] Cleaning PV mods

CAUTION: This email originated from outside of the organization. Do not 
click links or open attachments unless you recognize the sender and 
know the content is safe.


I don't understand the thermal shock nonsense. It routinely starts 
downpouring here when it's blazing hot out (sun showers) and the rain 
is way cooler than ground water in summer. It makes no sense. If hose 
water from the ground is going to hurt solar panels, you better not put 
them where it rains!


I replied privately to Dana, but for the benefit of the group, it takes 
a heavy soiling to make any appreciable difference. I have done 
numerous tests at times of high pollen and found little to no benefit 
to cleaning solar panels. Certainly it would not be worth paying 
someone to do it. Other climates may have different results. My 
suggestion would be to test first. Module level power electronics can 
provide incontrovertible proof.


Jason

On Fri, Oct 20, 2023, 4:21 PM Dave Tedeyan via RE-wrenches 
 wrote:


Hi Dana,

See attached from REC. I would imagine these guidelines would apply to 
all modules.


Cheers,

Dave

On Fri, Oct 20, 2023 at 3:56 PM Dana Orzel via RE-wrenches 
 wrote:


Hey ally 'all,

Ok bad solar installer! 7 years & I have never cleaned my modules & 
live on a dirt road. Yeah rain does a good job with the dust but there 
is a film mostly on the edges.


What does everyone do for cleaning?

My array is 16'+ tall on a hill side. I have a pressure washer & was 
going to pick up a large sponge type mop & mount it on a painters 
extension pole.


Good Biodegradable cleaning solutions?

_

Dana OrzelGREAT SOLAR WORKS!

C - 208.721.7003  E - d...@solarwork.com

W - www. greatsolarworks.com [1] www.solarwork.com [2]

_"Responsible Technologies for Responsible People since 1988!"_

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Owner | Sungineer Solar

p: he | him | his
a: 1653 Slaterville Rd. | Ithaca, NY 14850
w: www.sungineersolar.com [10]
c: (607) 270-0370

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Re: [RE-wrenches] Cleaning PV mods

[Dana Orzel via RE-wrenches]

As demonstrated in your wonderful video, and thank you for that, that’s great. The rain does take the pollen off what I’m confronted with is a combination of road dust and magnesium chloride, which they use to control the dust and it’s kind of set up like a little bit of greasy film, but only on the perimeters particular, in particular, the lower bottom couple inches of the module, I think I’m just gonna get out there and do it a little test on the bottom to see if I can get that film off my array is rated at 6400 W most normal 60° days I’m only seeing 5800 W coming down but 0°F day we do see 8400 W and we are off gridDana OrzelC: 208.721.7003E- d...@solarwork.comOn Oct 23, 2023, at 8:41 AM, david quattro via RE-wrenches  wrote:The encapsulant between the glass and the aluminum might be degraded by a surfactant. It’s probably a low risk if you use a gentle soap, but I heard that somewhere about 15 years ago so I thought I’d mention it.     I also heard that pressure washers are too strong and can ruin the encapsulant seal. On Mon, Oct 23, 2023 at 6:44 AM White, Will via RE-wrenches <re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:







I worked with a guy who had done installs in Arizona. He had an off-grid customer spray down their array with cold well water in the middle of the day, which shattered the module glass.

 
I’m sure it was an isolated incident, but it happened.
 
Thanks,
Will
 


From: RE-wrenches <re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org>
On Behalf Of Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches
Sent: Friday, October 20, 2023 4:47 PM
To: RE-wrenches <re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org>
Cc: Jason Szumlanski <ja...@floridasolardesigngroup.com>
Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: [RE-wrenches] Cleaning PV mods


 
CAUTION: This email originated from outside of the organization. Do not
 click links or open attachments unless you recognize the sender and know the content is safe.
 



I don't understand the thermal shock nonsense. It routinely starts downpouring here when it's blazing hot out (sun showers) and the rain is way cooler than ground water in summer. It makes no sense. If hose water from the ground is going
 to hurt solar panels, you better not put them where it rains!  

 


I replied privately to Dana, but for the benefit of the group, it takes a heavy soiling to make any appreciable difference. I have done numerous tests at times of high pollen and found little to no benefit to cleaning solar panels. Certainly
 it would not be worth paying someone to do it. Other climates may have different results. My suggestion would be to test first. Module level power electronics can provide incontrovertible proof.


 


Jason


 

 


On Fri, Oct 20, 2023, 4:21 PM Dave Tedeyan via RE-wrenches <re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:



Hi Dana,  

 


See attached from REC. I would imagine these guidelines would apply to all modules.


Cheers,


Dave


 


On Fri, Oct 20, 2023 at 3:56 PM Dana Orzel via RE-wrenches <re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:





Hey ally ‘all,
 
Ok bad solar installer! 7 years & I have never cleaned my modules & live on a dirt road. Yeah rain does a
 good job with the dust but there is a film mostly on the edges.
 
What does everyone do for cleaning?
 
My array is 16’+ tall on a hill side. I have a pressure washer & was going to pick up a large sponge type
 mop & mount it on a painters extension pole. 
 
Good Biodegradable cleaning solutions?
 
 
_
Dana Orzel    GREAT SOLAR WORKS! 

C – 208.721.7003  E –
d...@solarwork.com
W - www.

greatsolarworks.com 
www.solarwork.com
“Responsible Technologies for Responsible People since 1988!”
 


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Dave Tedeyan, P.E.
Owner | Sungineer Solar




p: he | him | his
a: 1653 Slaterville Rd. | Ithaca, NY 14850
w: www.sungineersolar.com
c: (607) 270-0370















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Re: [RE-wrenches] Cleaning PV mods

[david quattro via RE-wrenches]

The encapsulant between the glass and the aluminum might be degraded by a
surfactant. It’s probably a low risk if you use a gentle soap, but I heard
that somewhere about 15 years ago so I thought I’d mention it.
I also heard that pressure washers are too strong and can ruin the
encapsulant seal.



On Mon, Oct 23, 2023 at 6:44 AM White, Will via RE-wrenches <
re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:

> I worked with a guy who had done installs in Arizona. He had an off-grid
> customer spray down their array with cold well water in the middle of the
> day, which shattered the module glass.
>
>
>
> I’m sure it was an isolated incident, but it happened.
>
>
>
> Thanks,
>
> Will
>
>
>
> *From:* RE-wrenches  *On
> Behalf Of *Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches
> *Sent:* Friday, October 20, 2023 4:47 PM
> *To:* RE-wrenches 
> *Cc:* Jason Szumlanski 
> *Subject:* [EXTERNAL] Re: [RE-wrenches] Cleaning PV mods
>
>
>
> *CAUTION:* This email originated from outside of the organization. Do not
> click links or open attachments unless you recognize the sender and know
> the content is safe.
>
>
>
> I don't understand the thermal shock nonsense. It routinely starts
> downpouring here when it's blazing hot out (sun showers) and the rain is
> way cooler than ground water in summer. It makes no sense. If hose water
> from the ground is going to hurt solar panels, you better not put them
> where it rains!
>
>
>
> I replied privately to Dana, but for the benefit of the group, it takes a
> heavy soiling to make any appreciable difference. I have done numerous
> tests at times of high pollen and found little to no benefit to cleaning
> solar panels. Certainly it would not be worth paying someone to do it.
> Other climates may have different results. My suggestion would be to test
> first. Module level power electronics can provide incontrovertible proof.
>
>
>
> Jason
>
>
>
>
>
> On Fri, Oct 20, 2023, 4:21 PM Dave Tedeyan via RE-wrenches <
> re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:
>
> Hi Dana,
>
>
>
> See attached from REC. I would imagine these guidelines would apply to all
> modules.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Dave
>
>
>
> On Fri, Oct 20, 2023 at 3:56 PM Dana Orzel via RE-wrenches <
> re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:
>
> Hey ally ‘all,
>
>
>
> Ok bad solar installer! 7 years & I have never cleaned my modules & live
> on a dirt road. Yeah rain does a good job with the dust but there is a film
> mostly on the edges.
>
>
>
> What does everyone do for cleaning?
>
>
>
> My array is 16’+ tall on a hill side. I have a pressure washer & was going
> to pick up a large sponge type mop & mount it on a painters extension pole.
>
>
>
> Good Biodegradable cleaning solutions?
>
>
>
>
>
> _
>
> Dana OrzelGREAT SOLAR WORKS!
>
> C – 208.721.7003  E – d...@solarwork.com
>
> W - www. greatsolarworks.com
> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__http:/greatsolarworks.com__;!!KPww_GFiJXw!Y_kuM7c-s1IyVKAFmwI_3s4QdWIAuH3dA6C9UrdDyGVPbrAubqjhW4VUC0zvVmJ3YqDCwomVHcoSXnJViwOe2rxR3PsYzpCS$>
> www.solarwork.com
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>
> *“Responsible Technologies for Responsible People since 1988!”*
>
>
>
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Cleaning PV mods

[White, Will via RE-wrenches]

I worked with a guy who had done installs in Arizona. He had an off-grid 
customer spray down their array with cold well water in the middle of the day, 
which shattered the module glass.

I’m sure it was an isolated incident, but it happened.

Thanks,
Will

From: RE-wrenches  On Behalf Of 
Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches
Sent: Friday, October 20, 2023 4:47 PM
To: RE-wrenches 
Cc: Jason Szumlanski 
Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: [RE-wrenches] Cleaning PV mods


CAUTION: This email originated from outside of the organization. Do not click 
links or open attachments unless you recognize the sender and know the content 
is safe.


I don't understand the thermal shock nonsense. It routinely starts downpouring 
here when it's blazing hot out (sun showers) and the rain is way cooler than 
ground water in summer. It makes no sense. If hose water from the ground is 
going to hurt solar panels, you better not put them where it rains!

I replied privately to Dana, but for the benefit of the group, it takes a heavy 
soiling to make any appreciable difference. I have done numerous tests at times 
of high pollen and found little to no benefit to cleaning solar panels. 
Certainly it would not be worth paying someone to do it. Other climates may 
have different results. My suggestion would be to test first. Module level 
power electronics can provide incontrovertible proof.

Jason


On Fri, Oct 20, 2023, 4:21 PM Dave Tedeyan via RE-wrenches 
mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org>> 
wrote:
Hi Dana,

See attached from REC. I would imagine these guidelines would apply to all 
modules.
Cheers,
Dave

On Fri, Oct 20, 2023 at 3:56 PM Dana Orzel via RE-wrenches 
mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org>> 
wrote:
Hey ally ‘all,

Ok bad solar installer! 7 years & I have never cleaned my modules & live on a 
dirt road. Yeah rain does a good job with the dust but there is a film mostly 
on the edges.

What does everyone do for cleaning?

My array is 16’+ tall on a hill side. I have a pressure washer & was going to 
pick up a large sponge type mop & mount it on a painters extension pole.

Good Biodegradable cleaning solutions?


_
Dana OrzelGREAT SOLAR WORKS!
C – 208.721.7003  E – d...@solarwork.com<mailto:d...@solarwork.com>
W - www. 
greatsolarworks.com<https://urldefense.com/v3/__http:/greatsolarworks.com__;!!KPww_GFiJXw!Y_kuM7c-s1IyVKAFmwI_3s4QdWIAuH3dA6C9UrdDyGVPbrAubqjhW4VUC0zvVmJ3YqDCwomVHcoSXnJViwOe2rxR3PsYzpCS$>
 
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Owner | Sungineer Solar
p: he | him | his
a: 1653 S

Re: [RE-wrenches] Cleaning PV mods

[Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches]

The volume of water in a Florida downpour can come on virtually instantly
and would be many many times more volume of water than a residential hose.
The rate of temperature change in a downpour will be many multiples of what
a hose could do. This happens almost daily in summer here. A few hose
cleanings a year would pale in comparison to what solar panels endure
naturally due to weather.

Jason Szumlanski
Principal Solar Designer | Florida Solar Design Group
NABCEP Certified Solar Professional (PVIP)
Florida State Certified Solar Contractor CVC56956


On Fri, Oct 20, 2023 at 7:10 PM Jay via RE-wrenches <
re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:

> I tell my clients to wash your panels like you’d wash your car. Similar
> soaps if needed to remove pollen or harder to remove things and softer
> bristle brushes help.
>
> Doing it during the heat of the day means a larger chance of mineral
> deposits vs cooler times depending on your water.
>
> Myself I don’t think I’ve cleaned any of my panels in many years.
>
> Of course you might live in a place that it’s needed because of a larger
> drop off in performance.
>
> As to the shock part I agree it’s a thing. With rain it never starts as
> much volume you can do with a hose. Even heavy showers build up which
> allows the panel to cool over a longer period of time vs blasting it with a
> hose.
>
> My 2 cents.
>
> Jay
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Oct 20, 2023, at 4:32 PM, August Goers via RE-wrenches <
> re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:
>
> 
> I now live in a more rural part of California and the dust buildup and
> bird droppings on my modules cuts energy production down by about 5% during
> the dry months. I imagine that professional cleaning services would still
> cost more than the recouped energy production, especially since the dirt
> builds back up in just a couple of weeks.
>
> Anyway, I've had good luck spraying down my array with water and then
> using a long squeegee similar to but larger than the type they have at gas
> stations. The sponge side is helpful to scrub the buildup off and the
> squeegee side helps avoid water spots. Typically no cleanser is necessary,
> although a mild car wash mix can help if there is sooty or oily buildup.
>
> It is satisfying to see clean panels, even if it isn't recommended
> for most homeowners :)
>
> August
>
>
>
>
>
> On Fri, Oct 20, 2023 at 3:13 PM Kent via RE-wrenches <
> re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:
>
>> Jason,
>>
>> This is the way thermal shock was explained to me. Thermal shock creates
>> micro fractures in the glass. PV modules have tough tempered glass so one
>> thermal shock event, or a few dozen events, is unlikely to cause a module
>> to fracture; but eventually the glass gets to the last straw when the micro
>> fractures connect to each other and the whole pane breaks up. You can't do
>> much about sun showers but you can certainly avoid spraying the hose on hot
>> glass.
>> Kent Osterberg
>> Blue Mountain Solar
>>
>>
>> On 10/20/2023 1:47 PM, Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches wrote:
>>
>> I don't understand the thermal shock nonsense. It routinely starts
>> downpouring here when it's blazing hot out (sun showers) and the rain is
>> way cooler than ground water in summer. It makes no sense. If hose water
>> from the ground is going to hurt solar panels, you better not put them
>> where it rains!
>>
>> I replied privately to Dana, but for the benefit of the group, it takes a
>> heavy soiling to make any appreciable difference. I have done numerous
>> tests at times of high pollen and found little to no benefit to cleaning
>> solar panels. Certainly it would not be worth paying someone to do it.
>> Other climates may have different results. My suggestion would be to test
>> first. Module level power electronics can provide incontrovertible proof.
>>
>> Jason
>>
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Oct 20, 2023, 4:21 PM Dave Tedeyan via RE-wrenches <
>> re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:
>>
>>> Hi Dana,
>>>
>>> See attached from REC. I would imagine these guidelines would apply to
>>> all modules.
>>> Cheers,
>>> Dave
>>>
>>> On Fri, Oct 20, 2023 at 3:56 PM Dana Orzel via RE-wrenches <
>>> re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:
>>>
 Hey ally ‘all,



 Ok bad solar installer! 7 years & I have never cleaned my modules &
 live on a dirt road. Yeah rain does a good job with the dust but there is a
 film mostly on the edges.



 What does everyone do for cleaning?



 My array is 16’+ tall on a hill side. I have a pressure washer & was
 going to pick up a large sponge type mop & mount it on a painters extension
 pole.



 Good Biodegradable cleaning solutions?





 _

 Dana OrzelGREAT SOLAR WORKS!

 C – 208.721.7003  E – d...@solarwork.com

 W - www. greatsolarworks.com www.solarwork.com

 

Re: [RE-wrenches] Cleaning PV mods

[Jay via RE-wrenches]

I tell my clients to wash your panels like you’d wash your car. Similar soaps if needed to remove pollen or harder to remove things and softer bristle brushes help. Doing it during the heat of the day means a larger chance of mineral deposits vs cooler times depending on your water. Myself I don’t think I’ve cleaned any of my panels in many years. Of course you might live in a place that it’s needed because of a larger drop off in performance. As to the shock part I agree it’s a thing. With rain it never starts as much volume you can do with a hose. Even heavy showers build up which allows the panel to cool over a longer period of time vs blasting it with a hose. My 2 cents. JayOn Oct 20, 2023, at 4:32 PM, August Goers via RE-wrenches  wrote:I now live in a more rural part of California and the dust buildup and bird droppings on my modules cuts energy production down by about 5% during the dry months. I imagine that professional cleaning services would still cost more than the recouped energy production, especially since the dirt builds back up in just a couple of weeks. Anyway, I've had good luck spraying down my array with water and then using a long squeegee similar to but larger than the type they have at gas stations. The sponge side is helpful to scrub the buildup off and the squeegee side helps avoid water spots. Typically no cleanser is necessary, although a mild car wash mix can help if there is sooty or oily buildup.It is satisfying to see clean panels, even if it isn't recommended for most homeowners :)August

 On Fri, Oct 20, 2023 at 3:13 PM Kent via RE-wrenches  wrote:

  
  
Jason,
This is the way thermal shock was explained to me. Thermal shock
  creates micro fractures in the glass. PV modules have tough
  tempered glass so one thermal shock event, or a few dozen events,
  is unlikely to cause a module to fracture; but eventually the
  glass gets to the last straw when the micro fractures connect to
  each other and the whole pane breaks up. You can't do much about
  sun showers but you can certainly avoid spraying the hose on hot
  glass.
Kent Osterberg
Blue Mountain Solar 


On 10/20/2023 1:47 PM, Jason Szumlanski
  via RE-wrenches wrote:


  
  
I don't understand the thermal shock nonsense. It routinely
  starts downpouring here when it's blazing hot out (sun
  showers) and the rain is way cooler than ground water in
  summer. It makes no sense. If hose water from the ground is
  going to hurt solar panels, you better not put them where it
  rains! 
  
  
  I replied privately to Dana, but for the
benefit of the group, it takes a heavy soiling to make any
appreciable difference. I have done numerous tests at times
of high pollen and found little to no benefit to cleaning
solar panels. Certainly it would not be worth paying someone
to do it. Other climates may have different results. My
suggestion would be to test first. Module level power
electronics can provide incontrovertible proof.
  
  
  Jason
  
  
  
  
  
On Fri, Oct 20, 2023, 4:21
  PM Dave Tedeyan via RE-wrenches 
  wrote:


  Hi Dana, 


See attached from REC. I would imagine these
  guidelines would apply to all modules.
Cheers,
Dave
  
  
  
On Fri, Oct 20, 2023
  at 3:56 PM Dana Orzel via RE-wrenches 
  wrote:


  

  
Hey ally ‘all,
 
Ok bad solar
installer! 7 years & I have never
cleaned my modules & live on a dirt
road. Yeah rain does a good job with the
dust but there is a film mostly on the
edges.
 
What does everyone
do for cleaning?
 
My array is 16’+
tall on a hill side. I have a pressure
washer & was going to pick up a large
sponge type mop & mount it on a painters
extension pole. 
 
Good Biodegradable
cleaning solutions?
 

Re: [RE-wrenches] Cleaning PV mods

[August Goers via RE-wrenches]

I now live in a more rural part of California and the dust buildup and bird
droppings on my modules cuts energy production down by about 5% during the
dry months. I imagine that professional cleaning services would still cost
more than the recouped energy production, especially since the dirt builds
back up in just a couple of weeks.

Anyway, I've had good luck spraying down my array with water and then using
a long squeegee similar to but larger than the type they have at gas
stations. The sponge side is helpful to scrub the buildup off and the
squeegee side helps avoid water spots. Typically no cleanser is necessary,
although a mild car wash mix can help if there is sooty or oily buildup.

It is satisfying to see clean panels, even if it isn't recommended for most
homeowners :)

August





On Fri, Oct 20, 2023 at 3:13 PM Kent via RE-wrenches <
re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:

> Jason,
>
> This is the way thermal shock was explained to me. Thermal shock creates
> micro fractures in the glass. PV modules have tough tempered glass so one
> thermal shock event, or a few dozen events, is unlikely to cause a module
> to fracture; but eventually the glass gets to the last straw when the micro
> fractures connect to each other and the whole pane breaks up. You can't do
> much about sun showers but you can certainly avoid spraying the hose on hot
> glass.
> Kent Osterberg
> Blue Mountain Solar
>
>
> On 10/20/2023 1:47 PM, Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches wrote:
>
> I don't understand the thermal shock nonsense. It routinely starts
> downpouring here when it's blazing hot out (sun showers) and the rain is
> way cooler than ground water in summer. It makes no sense. If hose water
> from the ground is going to hurt solar panels, you better not put them
> where it rains!
>
> I replied privately to Dana, but for the benefit of the group, it takes a
> heavy soiling to make any appreciable difference. I have done numerous
> tests at times of high pollen and found little to no benefit to cleaning
> solar panels. Certainly it would not be worth paying someone to do it.
> Other climates may have different results. My suggestion would be to test
> first. Module level power electronics can provide incontrovertible proof.
>
> Jason
>
>
>
> On Fri, Oct 20, 2023, 4:21 PM Dave Tedeyan via RE-wrenches <
> re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:
>
>> Hi Dana,
>>
>> See attached from REC. I would imagine these guidelines would apply to
>> all modules.
>> Cheers,
>> Dave
>>
>> On Fri, Oct 20, 2023 at 3:56 PM Dana Orzel via RE-wrenches <
>> re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:
>>
>>> Hey ally ‘all,
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Ok bad solar installer! 7 years & I have never cleaned my modules & live
>>> on a dirt road. Yeah rain does a good job with the dust but there is a film
>>> mostly on the edges.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> What does everyone do for cleaning?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> My array is 16’+ tall on a hill side. I have a pressure washer & was
>>> going to pick up a large sponge type mop & mount it on a painters extension
>>> pole.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Good Biodegradable cleaning solutions?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _
>>>
>>> Dana OrzelGREAT SOLAR WORKS!
>>>
>>> C – 208.721.7003  E – d...@solarwork.com
>>>
>>> W - www. greatsolarworks.com www.solarwork.com
>>>
>>> *“Responsible Technologies for Responsible People since 1988!”*
>>>
>>>
>>> ___
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
> ___
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Cleaning PV mods

[Kent via RE-wrenches]

Jason,

This is the way thermal shock was explained to me. Thermal shock creates 
micro fractures in the glass. PV modules have tough tempered glass so 
one thermal shock event, or a few dozen events, is unlikely to cause a 
module to fracture; but eventually the glass gets to the last straw when 
the micro fractures connect to each other and the whole pane breaks up. 
You can't do much about sun showers but you can certainly avoid spraying 
the hose on hot glass.


Kent Osterberg
Blue Mountain Solar


On 10/20/2023 1:47 PM, Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches wrote:
I don't understand the thermal shock nonsense. It routinely starts 
downpouring here when it's blazing hot out (sun showers) and the rain 
is way cooler than ground water in summer. It makes no sense. If hose 
water from the ground is going to hurt solar panels, you better not 
put them where it rains!


I replied privately to Dana, but for the benefit of the group, it 
takes a heavy soiling to make any appreciable difference. I have done 
numerous tests at times of high pollen and found little to no benefit 
to cleaning solar panels. Certainly it would not be worth paying 
someone to do it. Other climates may have different results. My 
suggestion would be to test first. Module level power electronics can 
provide incontrovertible proof.


Jason



On Fri, Oct 20, 2023, 4:21 PM Dave Tedeyan via RE-wrenches 
 wrote:


Hi Dana,

See attached from REC. I would imagine these guidelines would
apply to all modules.
Cheers,
Dave

On Fri, Oct 20, 2023 at 3:56 PM Dana Orzel via RE-wrenches
 wrote:

Hey ally ‘all,

Ok bad solar installer! 7 years & I have never cleaned my
modules & live on a dirt road. Yeah rain does a good job with
the dust but there is a film mostly on the edges.

What does everyone do for cleaning?

My array is 16’+ tall on a hill side. I have a pressure washer
& was going to pick up a large sponge type mop & mount it on a
painters extension pole.

Good Biodegradable cleaning solutions?

_

Dana Orzel GREAT SOLAR WORKS!

C – 208.721.7003  E – d...@solarwork.com


W - www. greatsolarworks.com 
www.solarwork.com 

/_“Responsible Technologies for Responsible People since 1988!”_/

___



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Re: [RE-wrenches] Cleaning PV mods

[Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches]

I don't understand the thermal shock nonsense. It routinely starts
downpouring here when it's blazing hot out (sun showers) and the rain is
way cooler than ground water in summer. It makes no sense. If hose water
from the ground is going to hurt solar panels, you better not put them
where it rains!

I replied privately to Dana, but for the benefit of the group, it takes a
heavy soiling to make any appreciable difference. I have done numerous
tests at times of high pollen and found little to no benefit to cleaning
solar panels. Certainly it would not be worth paying someone to do it.
Other climates may have different results. My suggestion would be to test
first. Module level power electronics can provide incontrovertible proof.

Jason



On Fri, Oct 20, 2023, 4:21 PM Dave Tedeyan via RE-wrenches <
re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:

> Hi Dana,
>
> See attached from REC. I would imagine these guidelines would apply to all
> modules.
> Cheers,
> Dave
>
> On Fri, Oct 20, 2023 at 3:56 PM Dana Orzel via RE-wrenches <
> re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:
>
>> Hey ally ‘all,
>>
>>
>>
>> Ok bad solar installer! 7 years & I have never cleaned my modules & live
>> on a dirt road. Yeah rain does a good job with the dust but there is a film
>> mostly on the edges.
>>
>>
>>
>> What does everyone do for cleaning?
>>
>>
>>
>> My array is 16’+ tall on a hill side. I have a pressure washer & was
>> going to pick up a large sponge type mop & mount it on a painters extension
>> pole.
>>
>>
>>
>> Good Biodegradable cleaning solutions?
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> _
>>
>> Dana OrzelGREAT SOLAR WORKS!
>>
>> C – 208.721.7003  E – d...@solarwork.com
>>
>> W - www. greatsolarworks.com www.solarwork.com
>>
>> *“Responsible Technologies for Responsible People since 1988!”*
>>
>>
>> ___
>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance
>>
>> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org
>>
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>>
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>
> --
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> Owner | Sungineer Solar
> p: he | him | his
> a: 1653 Slaterville Rd. | Ithaca, NY 14850
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> c: (607) 270-0370
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[RE-wrenches] Cleaning PV mods

[Dana Orzel via RE-wrenches]

Hey ally 'all,

 

Ok bad solar installer! 7 years & I have never cleaned my modules & live on
a dirt road. Yeah rain does a good job with the dust but there is a film
mostly on the edges.

 

What does everyone do for cleaning?

 

My array is 16'+ tall on a hill side. I have a pressure washer & was going
to pick up a large sponge type mop & mount it on a painters extension pole. 

 

Good Biodegradable cleaning solutions?

 

 

_

Dana OrzelGREAT SOLAR WORKS!  

C - 208.721.7003  E -   d...@solarwork.com

W - www. greatsolarworks.com  
www.solarwork.com

"Responsible Technologies for Responsible People since 1988!"

 

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