Re: [RE-wrenches] DC to DC converters

[Mike Kocsmiersky]

I've had good luck with both the SureSine from Morningstar and Exeltech for
inverters.  Couldn't tell you the noise output.

Also, you may want to try Solar Converters Inc, or Samlex for DC to DC
converters.

 

 

Mike Kocsmiersky

Principal

Phone: 413 883-3144 

Spirit Solar

www.SpiritSolar.net

 

 

From: Ray Walters [mailto:r...@solarray.com] 
Sent: Monday, March 28, 2016 6:47 PM
To: RE-wrenches
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] DC to DC converters

 

What about building a 30 vdc system (5 x 6v batteries in series)  and adjust
the settings on a Midnite Classic to work with that?  How tight does the 30
vdc output need to be?

On inverters, I've had  trouble with the Suresine, basically not working
with GFCI outlets.
I keep trying different models of GFCIs, but they keep randomly tripping on
2 different systems. 
Morningstar's list of "approved" GFCIs doesn't list any currently
manufactured models, while calls to their tech support yields "Oh, that
shouldn't be a problem, it should work with all GFCIs..."
Way too many free trips out trying to fix this, so I may have to abandon
GFCI protection, or replace the inverters.  
My suggestion for that small load: Exeltech 125.  Better than grid waveform,
and I recently pulled one out of corroded outdoor enclosure almost 15 years
old: it looked terrible, but was still working fine.  It would also be lower
cost and fit in a smaller enclosure.



R.Ray Walters
CTO, Solarray, Inc
Nabcep Certified PV Installer, 
Licensed Master Electrician
Solar Design Engineer
303 505-8760

On 3/28/2016 2:24 PM, Dan Fink wrote:

Hi William; 

30VDC is kind of odd, but 36VDC is common. The folks at Solar Converters
might be able to fix you up with a custom one, or perhaps 36V is within the
sat unit's input range.

As for the inverter, I've never gone wrong with the Morningstar SureSine.
Slick little unit.




Dan Fink 

Adjunct Professor of Solar Energy Technology, Ecotech Institute

IREC Certified InstructorT for: 

~ PV Installation Professional

~ Small Wind Installer

Executive Director, Buckville Energy

NABCEP Registered Continuing Education ProvidersT
  970.672.4342


 

 

On Mon, Mar 28, 2016 at 1:44 PM, William Miller <will...@millersolar.com>
wrote:

Friends:

 

I am designing a satellite data interface for a large off-grid system for a
state highway department facility.  We will be using the Outback Optics data
capabilities along with equipment manufactured by Control by Web.

 

I'd like to run the satellite system on a battery power source so I can hope
to use it when we need it most, when the power is down.  We have a separate
24 volt battery bank remaining from a previous generator control system.
The satellite system operates on 30 VDC at 2 amps.

 

My first choice is to find a DC to DC converter from nominal 24 volts.  Do
any of you know of one that you could recommend?

 

My second choice is to use a small inverter.  Can anyone suggest one at this
small wattage?  I don't know how good the power supply is at rejecting
waveform distortion so I presume an inverter needs to be somewhat close to a
sine wave.

Thanks in advance.

 

William Miller

 

 

Gradient Cap_mini
Lic 773985
millersolar.com <http://www.millersolar.com/> 
805-438-5600

 

 






___
List sponsored by Redwood Alliance
 
List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org
 
Change listserver email address & settings:
http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
 
List-Archive:
http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html
 
List rules & etiquette:
www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm
 
Check out or update participant bios:
www.members.re-wrenches.org
 

 

___
List sponsored by Redwood Alliance

List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org

Change listserver email address & settings:
http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org

List-Archive: 
http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html

List rules & etiquette:
www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm

Check out or update participant bios:
www.members.re-wrenches.org

Re: [RE-wrenches] DC to DC converters

[Starlight Solar Power Systems]

William,

Over the years I have discovered that many published voltage specifications for 
equipment, like SCADA radios for example, are nominal voltages but actually can 
be powered from a broad range of voltages The internal PS circuit handles 
delivering the correct voltage. 30 volts is an odd spec so if you can get your 
hands on the unit, apply a variable DC supply to discover the true operating 
range. You may be surprised that it functions just fine with your existing 
power system. Save cost and KISS. 

Larry Crutcher
Starlight Solar Power Systems




On Mar 28, 2016, at 12:44 PM, William Miller  wrote:

Friends:
 
I am designing a satellite data interface for a large off-grid system for a 
state highway department facility.  We will be using the Outback Optics data 
capabilities along with equipment manufactured by Control by Web.
 
I’d like to run the satellite system on a battery power source so I can hope to 
use it when we need it most, when the power is down.  We have a separate 24 
volt battery bank remaining from a previous generator control system.  The 
satellite system operates on 30 VDC at 2 amps.
 
My first choice is to find a DC to DC converter from nominal 24 volts.  Do any 
of you know of one that you could recommend?
 
My second choice is to use a small inverter.  Can anyone suggest one at this 
small wattage?  I don’t know how good the power supply is at rejecting waveform 
distortion so I presume an inverter needs to be somewhat close to a sine wave.

Thanks in advance.
 
William Miller
 
 

Lic 773985
millersolar.com 
805-438-5600



___
List sponsored by Redwood Alliance

List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org

Change listserver email address & settings:
http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org

List-Archive: 
http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html

List rules & etiquette:
www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm

Check out or update participant bios:
www.members.re-wrenches.org

Re: [RE-wrenches] DC to DC converters

[Dan Fink]

Ray;
I've even had problems with Magnums and Outbacks not working with certain
GFCI outlets.I usually just avoid installing GFCIs in tiny, remote off-grid
systems designed for a specialty application with no electrical inspector
involved or required. GFCIs cause all kinds of mischief with equipment and
are a phantom load. I put them in the same league as hard-wired 120VAC
smoke detectors off the grid.

Exeltech inverters are certainly the most quiet RFI-wise, but the low
efficiency, $  and no-load draw are a bummer.

With William's application, I'd avoid the inverter entirely and go DC, then
you have no GFCI or AC codes. If the sat link DC input specs allow 36VDC
input, you have many off-the shelf options available for a boost/buck power
supply from 24VDC. Digikey even.

Dan Fink
Adjunct Professor of Solar Energy Technology, Ecotech Institute
IREC Certified Instructor™ for:
~ PV Installation Professional
~ Small Wind Installer
Executive Director, Buckville Energy
NABCEP Registered Continuing Education Providers™
970.672.4342



On Mon, Mar 28, 2016 at 4:47 PM, Ray Walters  wrote:

> What about building a 30 vdc system (5 x 6v batteries in series)  and
> adjust the settings on a Midnite Classic to work with that?  How tight does
> the 30 vdc output need to be?
>
> On inverters, I've had  trouble with the Suresine, basically not working
> with GFCI outlets.
> I keep trying different models of GFCIs, but they keep randomly tripping
> on 2 different systems.
> Morningstar's list of "approved" GFCIs doesn't list any currently
> manufactured models, while calls to their tech support yields "Oh, that
> shouldn't be a problem, it should work with all GFCIs..."
> Way too many free trips out trying to fix this, so I may have to abandon
> GFCI protection, or replace the inverters.
> My suggestion for that small load: Exeltech 125.  Better than grid
> waveform, and I recently pulled one out of corroded outdoor enclosure
> almost 15 years old: it looked terrible, but was still working fine.  It
> would also be lower cost and fit in a smaller enclosure.
>
> R.Ray Walters
> CTO, Solarray, Inc
> Nabcep Certified PV Installer,
> Licensed Master Electrician
> Solar Design Engineer303 505-8760
>
> On 3/28/2016 2:24 PM, Dan Fink wrote:
>
> Hi William;
> 30VDC is kind of odd, but 36VDC is common. The folks at Solar Converters
> might be able to fix you up with a custom one, or perhaps 36V is within the
> sat unit's input range.
> As for the inverter, I've never gone wrong with the Morningstar SureSine.
> Slick little unit.
>
> Dan Fink
> Adjunct Professor of Solar Energy Technology, Ecotech Institute
> IREC Certified Instructor™ for:
> ~ PV Installation Professional
> ~ Small Wind Installer
> Executive Director, Buckville Energy
> NABCEP Registered Continuing Education Providers™
> 970.672.4342
>
>
>
> On Mon, Mar 28, 2016 at 1:44 PM, William Miller <
> will...@millersolar.com> wrote:
>
>> Friends:
>>
>>
>>
>> I am designing a satellite data interface for a large off-grid system for
>> a state highway department facility.  We will be using the Outback Optics
>> data capabilities along with equipment manufactured by Control by Web.
>>
>>
>>
>> I’d like to run the satellite system on a battery power source so I can
>> hope to use it when we need it most, when the power is down.  We have a
>> separate 24 volt battery bank remaining from a previous generator control
>> system.  The satellite system operates on 30 VDC at 2 amps.
>>
>>
>>
>> My first choice is to find a DC to DC converter from nominal 24 volts.
>> Do any of you know of one that you could recommend?
>>
>>
>>
>> My second choice is to use a small inverter.  Can anyone suggest one at
>> this small wattage?  I don’t know how good the power supply is at rejecting
>> waveform distortion so I presume an inverter needs to be somewhat close to
>> a sine wave.
>>
>> Thanks in advance.
>>
>>
>>
>> William Miller
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> [image: Gradient Cap_mini]
>> Lic 773985
>> millersolar.com 
>> 805-438-5600
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
> ___
> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance
>
> List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org
>
> Change listserver email address & 
> settings:http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
>
> List-Archive: 
> http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html
>
> List rules & etiquette:www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm
>
> Check out or update participant bios:www.members.re-wrenches.org
>
>
>
> ___
> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance
>
> List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org
>
> Change listserver email address & settings:
> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
>
> List-Archive:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html
>
> List rules & etiquette:
> 

Re: [RE-wrenches] DC to DC converters

[Jerry Shafer]

Wrenches
Well i agree with every one, tha Samlex is great, morning atar charge
controllers again grean, and the question about the operating volts also
great, l have done stuff very close and the battery volts may have a wide
range
Jerry
On Mar 28, 2016 12:47 PM, "Ray Walters"  wrote:

> What about building a 30 vdc system (5 x 6v batteries in series)  and
> adjust the settings on a Midnite Classic to work with that?  How tight does
> the 30 vdc output need to be?
>
> On inverters, I've had  trouble with the Suresine, basically not working
> with GFCI outlets.
> I keep trying different models of GFCIs, but they keep randomly tripping
> on 2 different systems.
> Morningstar's list of "approved" GFCIs doesn't list any currently
> manufactured models, while calls to their tech support yields "Oh, that
> shouldn't be a problem, it should work with all GFCIs..."
> Way too many free trips out trying to fix this, so I may have to abandon
> GFCI protection, or replace the inverters.
> My suggestion for that small load: Exeltech 125.  Better than grid
> waveform, and I recently pulled one out of corroded outdoor enclosure
> almost 15 years old: it looked terrible, but was still working fine.  It
> would also be lower cost and fit in a smaller enclosure.
>
> R.Ray Walters
> CTO, Solarray, Inc
> Nabcep Certified PV Installer,
> Licensed Master Electrician
> Solar Design Engineer303 505-8760
>
> On 3/28/2016 2:24 PM, Dan Fink wrote:
>
> Hi William;
> 30VDC is kind of odd, but 36VDC is common. The folks at Solar Converters
> might be able to fix you up with a custom one, or perhaps 36V is within the
> sat unit's input range.
> As for the inverter, I've never gone wrong with the Morningstar SureSine.
> Slick little unit.
>
> Dan Fink
> Adjunct Professor of Solar Energy Technology, Ecotech Institute
> IREC Certified Instructor™ for:
> ~ PV Installation Professional
> ~ Small Wind Installer
> Executive Director, Buckville Energy
> NABCEP Registered Continuing Education Providers™
> 970.672.4342
>
>
>
> On Mon, Mar 28, 2016 at 1:44 PM, William Miller 
> wrote:
>
>> Friends:
>>
>>
>>
>> I am designing a satellite data interface for a large off-grid system for
>> a state highway department facility.  We will be using the Outback Optics
>> data capabilities along with equipment manufactured by Control by Web.
>>
>>
>>
>> I’d like to run the satellite system on a battery power source so I can
>> hope to use it when we need it most, when the power is down.  We have a
>> separate 24 volt battery bank remaining from a previous generator control
>> system.  The satellite system operates on 30 VDC at 2 amps.
>>
>>
>>
>> My first choice is to find a DC to DC converter from nominal 24 volts.
>> Do any of you know of one that you could recommend?
>>
>>
>>
>> My second choice is to use a small inverter.  Can anyone suggest one at
>> this small wattage?  I don’t know how good the power supply is at rejecting
>> waveform distortion so I presume an inverter needs to be somewhat close to
>> a sine wave.
>>
>> Thanks in advance.
>>
>>
>>
>> William Miller
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> [image: Gradient Cap_mini]
>> Lic 773985
>> millersolar.com 
>> 805-438-5600
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
> ___
> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance
>
> List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org
>
> Change listserver email address & 
> settings:http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
>
> List-Archive: 
> http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html
>
> List rules & etiquette:www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm
>
> Check out or update participant bios:www.members.re-wrenches.org
>
>
>
> ___
> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance
>
> List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org
>
> Change listserver email address & settings:
> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
>
> List-Archive:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html
>
> List rules & etiquette:
> www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm
>
> Check out or update participant bios:
> www.members.re-wrenches.org
>
>
>
___
List sponsored by Redwood Alliance

List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org

Change listserver email address & settings:
http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org

List-Archive: 
http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html

List rules & etiquette:
www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm

Check out or update participant bios:
www.members.re-wrenches.org

Re: [RE-wrenches] DC to DC converters

[Ray Walters]

What about building a 30 vdc system (5 x 6v batteries in series) and 
adjust the settings on a Midnite Classic to work with that?  How tight 
does the 30 vdc output need to be?


On inverters, I've had  trouble with the Suresine, basically not working 
with GFCI outlets.
I keep trying different models of GFCIs, but they keep randomly tripping 
on 2 different systems.
Morningstar's list of "approved" GFCIs doesn't list any currently 
manufactured models, while calls to their tech support yields "Oh, that 
shouldn't be a problem, it should work with all GFCIs..."
Way too many free trips out trying to fix this, so I may have to abandon 
GFCI protection, or replace the inverters.
My suggestion for that small load: Exeltech 125.  Better than grid 
waveform, and I recently pulled one out of corroded outdoor enclosure 
almost 15 years old: it looked terrible, but was still working fine.  It 
would also be lower cost and fit in a smaller enclosure.


R.Ray Walters
CTO, Solarray, Inc
Nabcep Certified PV Installer,
Licensed Master Electrician
Solar Design Engineer
303 505-8760

On 3/28/2016 2:24 PM, Dan Fink wrote:

Hi William;
30VDC is kind of odd, but 36VDC is common. The folks at Solar 
Converters might be able to fix you up with a custom one, or perhaps 
36V is within the sat unit's input range.
As for the inverter, I've never gone wrong with the Morningstar 
SureSine. Slick little unit.


Dan Fink
Adjunct Professor of Solar Energy Technology, Ecotech Institute
IREC Certified Instructor™ for:
~ PV Installation Professional
~ Small Wind Installer
Executive Director, Buckville Energy
NABCEP Registered Continuing Education Providers™
970.672.4342 


On Mon, Mar 28, 2016 at 1:44 PM, William Miller 
> wrote:


Friends:

I am designing a satellite data interface for a large off-grid
system for a state highway department facility.  We will be using
the Outback Optics data capabilities along with equipment
manufactured by Control by Web.

I’d like to run the satellite system on a battery power source so
I can hope to use it when we need it most, when the power is
down.  We have a separate 24 volt battery bank remaining from a
previous generator control system.  The satellite system operates
on 30 VDC at 2 amps.

My first choice is to find a DC to DC converter from nominal 24
volts.  Do any of you know of one that you could recommend?

My second choice is to use a small inverter.  Can anyone suggest
one at this small wattage?  I don’t know how good the power supply
is at rejecting waveform distortion so I presume an inverter needs
to be somewhat close to a sine wave.

Thanks in advance.

William Miller

Gradient Cap_mini
Lic 773985
millersolar.com 
805-438-5600 




___
List sponsored by Redwood Alliance

List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org

Change listserver email address & settings:
http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org

List-Archive: 
http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html

List rules & etiquette:
www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm

Check out or update participant bios:
www.members.re-wrenches.org



___
List sponsored by Redwood Alliance

List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org

Change listserver email address & settings:
http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org

List-Archive: 
http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html

List rules & etiquette:
www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm

Check out or update participant bios:
www.members.re-wrenches.org

Re: [RE-wrenches] DC to DC converters

[Dan Fink]

Hi William;
30VDC is kind of odd, but 36VDC is common. The folks at Solar Converters
might be able to fix you up with a custom one, or perhaps 36V is within the
sat unit's input range.
As for the inverter, I've never gone wrong with the Morningstar SureSine.
Slick little unit.

Dan Fink
Adjunct Professor of Solar Energy Technology, Ecotech Institute
IREC Certified Instructor™ for:
~ PV Installation Professional
~ Small Wind Installer
Executive Director, Buckville Energy
NABCEP Registered Continuing Education Providers™
970.672.4342



On Mon, Mar 28, 2016 at 1:44 PM, William Miller 
wrote:

> Friends:
>
>
>
> I am designing a satellite data interface for a large off-grid system for
> a state highway department facility.  We will be using the Outback Optics
> data capabilities along with equipment manufactured by Control by Web.
>
>
>
> I’d like to run the satellite system on a battery power source so I can
> hope to use it when we need it most, when the power is down.  We have a
> separate 24 volt battery bank remaining from a previous generator control
> system.  The satellite system operates on 30 VDC at 2 amps.
>
>
>
> My first choice is to find a DC to DC converter from nominal 24 volts.  Do
> any of you know of one that you could recommend?
>
>
>
> My second choice is to use a small inverter.  Can anyone suggest one at
> this small wattage?  I don’t know how good the power supply is at rejecting
> waveform distortion so I presume an inverter needs to be somewhat close to
> a sine wave.
>
> Thanks in advance.
>
>
>
> William Miller
>
>
>
>
>
> [image: Gradient Cap_mini]
> Lic 773985
> millersolar.com 
> 805-438-5600
>
>
>
___
List sponsored by Redwood Alliance

List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org

Change listserver email address & settings:
http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org

List-Archive: 
http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html

List rules & etiquette:
www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm

Check out or update participant bios:
www.members.re-wrenches.org

Re: [RE-wrenches] DC to DC converters

[Maverick Brown]

Two choices

1. Samlex DC-DC converter. I've used the 12V version with success. 
Here is a fancy 24V version. Running the loads directly. 

http://www.samlexamerica.com/products/ProductDetail.aspx?pid=181

2. Morningstar SunSaver MPPT 15L charge controller charging the 24V battery 
bank. 

Thank you,

Maverick


Maverick Brown
BSEET, NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installer ®
President & CEO
Maverick Solar Enterprises, Inc.
Office: 512-919-4493
Cell:512-460-9825

Sent from an iPhone. 

> On Mar 28, 2016, at 2:44 PM, William Miller  wrote:
> 
> Friends:
>  
> I am designing a satellite data interface for a large off-grid system for a 
> state highway department facility.  We will be using the Outback Optics data 
> capabilities along with equipment manufactured by Control by Web.
>  
> I’d like to run the satellite system on a battery power source so I can hope 
> to use it when we need it most, when the power is down.  We have a separate 
> 24 volt battery bank remaining from a previous generator control system.  The 
> satellite system operates on 30 VDC at 2 amps.
>  
> My first choice is to find a DC to DC converter from nominal 24 volts.  Do 
> any of you know of one that you could recommend?
>  
> My second choice is to use a small inverter.  Can anyone suggest one at this 
> small wattage?  I don’t know how good the power supply is at rejecting 
> waveform distortion so I presume an inverter needs to be somewhat close to a 
> sine wave.
> 
> Thanks in advance.
>  
> William Miller
>  
>  
> 
> Lic 773985
> millersolar.com
> 805-438-5600
>  
> ___
> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance
> 
> List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org
> 
> Change listserver email address & settings:
> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
> 
> List-Archive: 
> http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html
> 
> List rules & etiquette:
> www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm
> 
> Check out or update participant bios:
> www.members.re-wrenches.org
> 
___
List sponsored by Redwood Alliance

List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org

Change listserver email address & settings:
http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org

List-Archive: 
http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html

List rules & etiquette:
www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm

Check out or update participant bios:
www.members.re-wrenches.org

[RE-wrenches] DC to DC converters

[William Miller]

Friends:



I am designing a satellite data interface for a large off-grid system for a
state highway department facility.  We will be using the Outback Optics
data capabilities along with equipment manufactured by Control by Web.



I’d like to run the satellite system on a battery power source so I can
hope to use it when we need it most, when the power is down.  We have a
separate 24 volt battery bank remaining from a previous generator control
system.  The satellite system operates on 30 VDC at 2 amps.



My first choice is to find a DC to DC converter from nominal 24 volts.  Do
any of you know of one that you could recommend?



My second choice is to use a small inverter.  Can anyone suggest one at
this small wattage?  I don’t know how good the power supply is at rejecting
waveform distortion so I presume an inverter needs to be somewhat close to
a sine wave.

Thanks in advance.



William Miller





[image: Gradient Cap_mini]
Lic 773985
millersolar.com 
805-438-5600
___
List sponsored by Redwood Alliance

List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org

Change listserver email address & settings:
http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org

List-Archive: 
http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html

List rules & etiquette:
www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm

Check out or update participant bios:
www.members.re-wrenches.org