Re: [RE-wrenches] FW: Panel Fire

2009-02-12 Thread Allan Sindelar
David,
OK, you're right. Each row is two panels, not four, and one two-panel
subarray burned. My mistake, sorry.
 
I have a strong defensive radar about substandard work in our industry, and
this is an extreme example of what can happen. This can hurt us all in terms
of public perceptions about PV. I have been a bulldog about shoddy or
unlicensed work in our area, and have helped to discourage a couple of
unlicensed companies from becoming established here. It's my shadow side of
trying to build a strong industry, and of trying to protect our own
company's reputation for quality.
 
Allan
 
-Original Message-
From: David Brearley [mailto:david.brear...@solarprofessional.com] 


Allan, there are 4 modules pictured in the before photo, not 8. The after
photo show the good modules, the ones that did not burn. This suggests
there are 4 module each on two separate roof faces. Please have another look
at the before picture and count the frames. In the before picture each 250 W
mystery module is supported at 4 corners only. They are some sort of large
format modules. Nothing I can find online matches these characteristics,
especially the superstrate material.

Please re-read the homeowner's account in these various postings as well.
Sundiego indicates that the module superstrate is not glass, but some other
material. Apparently it is a material that melts when exposed to flame. It
sure isn't glass, that's pretty clear by the photos and the written account.

This does not look like an elaborate hoax to me. It does look, as BB points
out, like a potential crime scene, a fraud at the very least. Something was
misrepresented to this customer. It's pretty apparent that these modules are
not listed and identified for the application. The installation isn't
vaguely appropriate. It's just dumb luck-literally-that the house didn't
burn down.

Clearly the narrator is unreliable, but I don't think it is malicious, just
ignorance. The dude's a solar newbie and his house caught on fire. That's
what it looks like to me.

David


On 2/11/09, Allan Sindelar al...@positiveenergysolar.com wrote:



One detail I haven't heard mentioned yet and am  curious about - the photo
of the fire damage appears to show the corner of  another west(?)-facing
array. I find it curious that the system owner  described a 2 kW system made
up of eight 250W(!) modules, which are  clearly visible in the topmost
system photo.  There's just a whole lot that doesn't jive in  this whole
story. Scary to me . 

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Re: [RE-wrenches] FW: Panel Fire

2009-02-11 Thread Wind-sun.com
Re: [RE-wrenches] FW:  Panel FireA new term for bargain basement modules?

..
  - Original Message - 
  From: David Brearley 
  To: al...@positiveenergysolar.com ; RE-wrenches 
  Sent: Wednesday, February 11, 2009 11:57 PM
  Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] FW: Panel Fire


  each 250 W  mystery module ___
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Re: [RE-wrenches] FW: Panel Fire

2009-02-11 Thread David Brearley
Allan, there are 4 modules pictured in the ³before² photo, not 8. The after
photo show the ³good² modules, the ones that did not burn. This suggests
there are 4 module each on two separate roof faces. Please have another look
at the before picture and count the frames. In the before picture each 250 W
mystery module is supported at 4 corners only. They are some sort of large
format modules. Nothing I can find online matches these characteristics,
especially the superstrate material.

Please re-read the homeowner¹s account in these various postings as well.
Sundiego indicates that the module superstrate is not glass, but some other
material. Apparently it is a material that melts when exposed to flame. It
sure isn¹t glass, that¹s pretty clear by the photos and the written account.

This does not look like an elaborate hoax to me. It does look, as BB points
out, like a potential crime scene, a fraud at the very least. Something was
misrepresented to this customer. It¹s pretty apparent that these modules are
not listed and identified for the application. The installation isn¹t
vaguely appropriate. It¹s just dumb luck‹literally‹that the house didn¹t
burn down.

Clearly the narrator is unreliable, but I don¹t think it is malicious, just
ignorance. The dude¹s a ³solar newbie² and his house caught on fire. That¹s
what it looks like to me.

David


On 2/11/09 6:57 PM, Allan Sindelar al...@positiveenergysolar.com wrote:

 I guess I'm not the only one who's suspicious of this whole story. This came
 to me off list. Some of the post here doesn't jive - it's pretty clear there's
 no glass, and the blurry corner doesn't look it to me.
  
 -Original Message-
 From: 
   
   I  may be very wrong here and I don¹t mean to impugn anyone¹s integrity but
 don¹t forget that in this era of digital animation movies you can¹t always
 believe what you see in photo either. (I'm sure no one here has ever
 Photoshopped a photo to make it more presentable  looking.)  I couldn't help
 but notice that the bottom right corner of  the photo was surprisingly blurry
 and indistinct.  It is  difficult to distinguish one thing from the next, when
 just a few feet  away but out of the range of detail in the photo, things
 seemed to be  much clearer.  I¹ve never seen a photo look like that  in
 reality.  It¹s as if the roof and array have  mysteriously melted together.
 Also, I have never seen tempered glass  melt in a low temperature fire.   If
 it were a high temperature fire the roof would not have  survived.  I think
 that a great deal of caution is warranted  especially considering the lack of
 detail that the poster is giving about  the panels, location,
 installer/supplier, existence of another array  etc.
 --- On Wed, 2/11/09, Allan  Sindelar al...@positiveenergysolar.com wrote:
 One detail I haven't heard mentioned yet and am  curious about - the photo of
 the fire damage appears to show the corner of  another west(?)-facing array. I
 find it curious that the system owner  described a 2 kW system made up of
 eight 250W(!) modules, which are  clearly visible in the topmost system photo.
 There's just a whole lot that doesn't jive in  this whole story. Scary to me .
 
 
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