Re: [RE-wrenches] Flashings- to nail or not to nail
Hey Nick, Can you shed some light on your crew's reason(s) for wanting to do this? Waterproofing? Aesthetics? Have you or they had problems with leaks in the past that this practice might prevent? Assuming you are talking about nailing down the exposed lower part of a flashing base on a comp roof... There are times to consider it and times that it's a waste of effort and possibly compromises the installation. In most cases, a flashing that is properly cut in to a comp roof in good shape shouldn't need this for waterproofing. Especially if you are using a sealant under the standoff. Times when you might want to consider this are when the roof is in questionable condition or got chewed up putting in the standoff or you're using small-base flashings in a high wind environment on a low-slope roof. IF you are going to do it, use corrosion-resistant screws instead of nails. 1-1/2" #10 sheet metal screws are good for this. Put a dollop of your favorite roof sealant between the flashing and the roof where the screws will go and around/over the screw heads. In any case, I would get to the bottom of my crew's concerns before making up a policy. You might find that there is another problem that needs to be addressed... Like maybe they aren't real adept at cutting in flashings and need to get some pointers. Or maybe they are doing it fine and just aren't confident in their skills or want to do an extra-super job. I also recommend that you talk with at least two decent roofers and get their thoughts on it. If you have a hard time finding a decent roofer, lower your standards of decency. $0.02001 Solar Janitor _ From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of Nick Soleil Sent: Tuesday, July 27, 2010 7:47 PM To: RE-wrenches Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Flashings- to nail or not to nail HI Wrenches: My crew wants to nail all the flashings on our footings, but I am resisting. Do you guys have any strong feelings about that. Nick Soleil ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Flashings- to nail or not to nail
OK, even though the solar racking manufacturers do not detail nailing the flashings to the roofs in their installation manuals and on-line videos, Oatey does publish a document which says "One nail or staple in each bottom corner is appropriate." Nick Soleil Project Manager Advanced Alternative Energy Solutions, LLC PO Box 657 Petaluma, CA 94953 Cell: 707-321-2937 Office: 707-789-9537 Fax:707-769-9037 From: North Texas Renewable Energy Inc To: RE-wrenches Sent: Wed, July 28, 2010 6:33:23 AM Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Flashings- to nail or not to nail Nick We not only use roofing nails at the bottom corners of metal flashing but sealant around the top and side edges of the face down side. It keeps potential water seeping from uphill away from the lag penetration[s]. We also seal around every shingle edge we pull up or trim off around the flashing. In the words of Mark Graham Assoc. Executive Dir of the National Roofing Contractors Assoc emphasized in his presentation at the AEE conference in Feb, anything less "...is installing roof leaks." Yep, it's more work than slapping down L-feet, about 5 minutes per standoff start to finish, but metal flashed standoffs are the only way we'll attach PV on 3-tab asphalt roofs. It's often as time consuming finding the rafters as it is mounting the footings and flashing. my $0.02 [compounded over 20 years] Jim Duncan NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installer No.31310-57 TECL 27398 North Texas Renewable Energy 486 W.N. Woody Road Azle Texas 76020 Since 1993 nt...@1scom.net 817.917.0527 www.ntrei.com -Original Message- >From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org >[mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org]on Behalf Of NickSoleil >Sent: Tuesday, July 27, 2010 9:47 PM >To: RE-wrenches >Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Flashings- to nail or not tonail > > >HIWrenches: >My crew wants to nail all the flashings on ourfootings, but I am >resisting. Do you guys have any strong feelings aboutthat. > > Nick Soleil >Project Manager >Advanced Alternative EnergySolutions, LLC >PO Box 657 >Petaluma, CA 94953 >Cell:707-321-2937 >Office: 707-789-9537 >Fax: 707-769-9037 > ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Flashings- to nail or not to nail
What about just applying adhesive. The Cali Building Code says that all roof penetrations must be flashed. Is the nail not a roof penetration? What if it works out over time, like so many other flashings nails do? Then you will have a leak. Nick Soleil Project Manager Advanced Alternative Energy Solutions, LLC PO Box 657 Petaluma, CA 94953 Cell: 707-321-2937 Office: 707-789-9537 Fax:707-769-9037 From: North Texas Renewable Energy Inc To: RE-wrenches Sent: Wed, July 28, 2010 6:33:23 AM Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Flashings- to nail or not to nail Nick We not only use roofing nails at the bottom corners of metal flashing but sealant around the top and side edges of the face down side. It keeps potential water seeping from uphill away from the lag penetration[s]. We also seal around every shingle edge we pull up or trim off around the flashing. In the words of Mark Graham Assoc. Executive Dir of the National Roofing Contractors Assoc emphasized in his presentation at the AEE conference in Feb, anything less "...is installing roof leaks." Yep, it's more work than slapping down L-feet, about 5 minutes per standoff start to finish, but metal flashed standoffs are the only way we'll attach PV on 3-tab asphalt roofs. It's often as time consuming finding the rafters as it is mounting the footings and flashing. my $0.02 [compounded over 20 years] Jim Duncan NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installer No.31310-57 TECL 27398 North Texas Renewable Energy 486 W.N. Woody Road Azle Texas 76020 Since 1993 nt...@1scom.net 817.917.0527 www.ntrei.com -Original Message- >From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org >[mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org]on Behalf Of NickSoleil >Sent: Tuesday, July 27, 2010 9:47 PM >To: RE-wrenches >Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Flashings- to nail or not tonail > > >HIWrenches: >My crew wants to nail all the flashings on ourfootings, but I am >resisting. Do you guys have any strong feelings aboutthat. > > Nick Soleil >Project Manager >Advanced Alternative EnergySolutions, LLC >PO Box 657 >Petaluma, CA 94953 >Cell:707-321-2937 >Office: 707-789-9537 >Fax: 707-769-9037 > ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Flashings- to nail or not to nail
Nick We not only use roofing nails at the bottom corners of metal flashing but sealant around the top and side edges of the face down side. It keeps potential water seeping from uphill away from the lag penetration[s]. We also seal around every shingle edge we pull up or trim off around the flashing. In the words of Mark Graham Assoc. Executive Dir of the National Roofing Contractors Assoc emphasized in his presentation at the AEE conference in Feb, anything less "...is installing roof leaks." Yep, it's more work than slapping down L-feet, about 5 minutes per standoff start to finish, but metal flashed standoffs are the only way we'll attach PV on 3-tab asphalt roofs. It's often as time consuming finding the rafters as it is mounting the footings and flashing. my $0.02 [compounded over 20 years] Jim Duncan NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installer No.31310-57 TECL 27398 North Texas Renewable Energy 486 W.N. Woody Road Azle Texas 76020 Since 1993 nt...@1scom.net 817.917.0527 www.ntrei.com -Original Message- From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org]on Behalf Of Nick Soleil Sent: Tuesday, July 27, 2010 9:47 PM To: RE-wrenches Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Flashings- to nail or not to nail HI Wrenches: My crew wants to nail all the flashings on our footings, but I am resisting. Do you guys have any strong feelings about that. Nick Soleil Project Manager Advanced Alternative Energy Solutions, LLC PO Box 657 Petaluma, CA 94953 Cell: 707-321-2937 Office: 707-789-9537 Fax: 707-769-9037 <>___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Flashings- to nail or not to nail
HI Wrenches: My crew wants to nail all the flashings on our footings, but I am resisting. Do you guys have any strong feelings about that. Nick Soleil Project Manager Advanced Alternative Energy Solutions, LLC PO Box 657 Petaluma, CA 94953 Cell: 707-321-2937 Office: 707-789-9537 Fax:707-769-9037 From: Bob-O Schultze To: RE-wrenches Sent: Tue, July 27, 2010 7:04:36 AM Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] AL wire with DC Agreed with Dick on this one. First, if you are going the DB route, then you have to get it down at least 24" instead of 18". No problem some places, a HUGE problem others. Then there are the burrowing critters like ground squirrels which love to chew on anything. I have heard that there is something put into the insulation which makes it distasteful, but I sure don't believe it- if true. Bob-O On Jul 27, 2010, at 4:06 AM, Richard L Ratico wrote: The insulation on Al cable rated for direct burial is thick and tough. But, DON'T direct bury it. Carefully pull it into correctly installed PVC conduit. Use marker tape above the conduit, just below grade. If you're in an area that doesn't experience ground frost, MAYBE, VERY CAREFULLY, plant the cable in a generous amount of sand. If you're in an region with frost, ALWAYS use conduit. I think it is false economy to skip the conduit. The sand application is very time consuming. Buried copper wire with nicked insulation may not turn to dust, but is certainly a MAJOR bummer, particularly if it's not in conduit, AND, it's at least 3X the cost of Al. Al, done right, no worries. Dick Ratico Solarwind Electric --- Drake wrote: Aluminum wire got its bad name during the era when it was use in 15 and 20 amp circuits, with #12 and #10 wire. That stuff is a nightmare. As an electrician that has cleaned up some of the messes, I can supply ample horror stories. #2 and larger sizes of AL work fine. It is important to use antioxidant on the connections. Separate copper wire from aluminum using a listed splicing device. Aluminum wire will turn to white powder in an underground cable where the insulation has been breached. This is true for DC or AC. ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
